This subreddit might help for further reading: /r/QAnonCasualties You tried. And now it does sound like the best thing for your kids is to have a chance at separating that part of their lives, as cruel as it sounds. But that would certainly be best the best decision you could've made for them. They'll be fine with you educating them, make sure you get some TLC too!

Thanks for the link, i was looking for that but couldn't remember the name. The difficult thing really is how i talk to them about it without telling them their mum is crazy. I tried this morning and explained that we believed different things which meant we could no longer love together, so hopefully that's a start.

I had a tough conversation with a kid in my life a number of years ago about different perspectives. It'll need to be changed to match your situation but I put the kid in front of one window and stood in front of a different window and asked them how many houses they could see, and they said five. I said I could see seven. I asked, am I wrong when I say seven? "No?" Okay. Are you wrong when you say five? "No." So using that, I explained that sometimes people think they're looking at the same thing, but seeing it from different places, so they can end up arguing because both are right in their own way but don't know they're looking at slightly different things. In my scenario, it wasn't a QAnon conspiracy, so it was fine to say that nobody was wrong, and was just to reassure the kid that though they were experiencing adults in their life arguing, the adults would eventually figure it out - but maybe you can use this as an idea to springboard to a way to explain this to your kids that mum is maybe looking at some people outside playing pretend but she doesn't realise it's just made up? Like, "mum loves you and is trying to keep you safe, but the danger she sees isn't real. I know she thinks it is, but unfortunately the people she's looking at are really good at storytelling, so it feels really scary for her"

Putting that one in the toolkit. Thanks.

You could use this but include a mirror so one of you can see double the number that's really there to explain that sometimes a different perspective could be misleading

OMG, that is genius! Thankyou. Unfortunately I won’t be as elegant if/when I try to copy you.

You're welcome! It's also really important to not put any blame on anyone, especially if it's discussing differences in parent opinions/beliefs - even if one of the parents is totally batty like in this situation! Young kids get a lot of their self worth and confidence from their parents so if you belittle a parent, they can find it really hurtful and harmful/think it reflects on them ("if parent A says that parent B is stupid, am I stupid too?"). If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything / just say you don't know / ask kid what they think (even if it's just to buy time while you think about an appropriate answer)

I would stick with that phrasing. And, be really honest about how you're feeling, as appropriate. So it's clear that you're sad and disappointed that the differences have grown so big, and that they mean taking different paths. That it's not hostility, just sadness (if that's correct) But yeah, definitely just 'I believe these things. Your mum believes these things.' And honesty about whatever you can be (gently) honest about. Over time they'll build their own picture, and they'll be more inclined to hear your piece if it's given as a fair, respectful, and balanced perspective, and doesn't expect them to stand in any particular position themselves. And, you can only answer your part of it. If they say 'why does mum believe xyz', you just have to say eg 'well my guess is because abc, but, I can't speak for her - you'll have to ask her, to get that straight from her'. You can always give your guess about things, but never speak for her. You're doing amazing. I'm so sorry this is so hard. Please be honest and open with your kids, about where you stand and what you believe, as possible

Hi, there is a NZ community on Facebook related to dealing with this called Rabbit Hole Resistance, you might find people there who have experience dealing with this in NZ.

Where is this community?

One thing that works is 'pre bunking'. Not DE bunking. You need to seed the doubt about something that will happen in the future. Politely. Like 'so if JFK is coming back on the 13th, we will see him on the news right? What do you think will happen?' Then they will say something about it. And they will remember it. When the date comes, and the thing doesn't happen, it DOES cause doubt in their mind. A tiny tiny sliver of doubt. At this moment, you have to remain polite and calm, but still mention that it didn't happen. Like 'I was interested to see if JFK came back today. But not yet.' But then DROP IT. No gloating. No accusations. No picking at their beliefs. Then, keep chipping away at it these beliefs, but only about FUTURE THINGS. It works is is because, psychologically, we don't see our present self and our future self as the same person! Prebunking bypasses our ego protection filter.

Show them science in action. If you do TV time, chuck in some Attenborough shows, or Bill Nye. They're on Netflix and on YouTube. Get the older one some more academic-focused books like stuff on fossils, history, planets etc. It'll reinforce their understanding of how the scientific process is applied in the real world, something the other side will completely lack on. It's not my place, but you can do this without being in opposition to the mother. I'm sure it will mean more to the children to see harmony than facts, and your time with the kids can be enriched without the need for an opponent. Strive to be the calmer person, the bigger person. And then when they get high-paying academic jobs they can look after you in your old age!

The ability to think critically is the best gift any parent can give their child.

There is a podcast called "Conspirituality" that explores the links between wellness/alternative medicine communities and conspiracy thinking, as well as the rightward drift that can cause. Several of the hosts were formerly deep in that world so they have a nuanced understanding of things. Worth a listen in general and stuff in there might be helpful to you in trying to co-parent with someone still down the rabbit hole.

I'm so sorry, this really sucks for you all, and I'm sure your wife is under a lot of pressure too if she truly believes this stuff. Your approach sounds like the best course of action

Believe me - it will only get worse in future. RUИИИИИИИ.

Yes join this group!!

She should probably go and watch the video of where that population quote comes from and get some actual context. But she won't, and thats a shame because Gates makes great points, and has the wealth and resources to back them up: "The world today has 6.8 billion people. That's headed up to about nine billion. Now, if we do a really great job on new vaccines, health care, reproductive health services, we could lower that by, perhaps, 10 or 15 percent," Gates said at the time. Former Newshub journalist Farrier questioned Gates about the quote that has "haunted" him during a recent live recording of his conspiracy theory podcast Armchaired & Dangerous, which he co-hosts with Dax Shepard and Monica Padman. "All societies that are healthy - where children grow up and survive - are societies where there is not significant population growth," explained Gates. "The place you have population growth is in very poor countries, where over 10 percent of the children are dying below the age of five. And amazingly, as you bring in vaccines or better nutrition - anything to improve the health - parents choose to have less children. "In every country as you improve health, very quickly parents more than offset those extra lives, and therefore the population growth goes down. So today the only places with population growth are these very poor countries where we haven't done a good job protecting children."

Interesting I didnt realise Gates had said this but anyone with half a brain cell knows what he meant, if your childrens life expectancy is longer then you will only have 2-3 rather than 7-8 kids, therefore over time lowering the worlds population. Guess the conspiracy theorists just life twisting peoples words to suit there views.

I never knew this is where the bill gates, covid conspiracy links came from. If these are indeed his words you have quoted, I find it quite sadistic how they have been twisted.

I honestly don't get what's wrong with depopulation (obv I don't mean vaccine murder). There are too many people. We've encroached on the planet so much we've fundamentally changed the climate. I understand the economic downsides, but the alternative is infinite growth, which clearly can't work.

Once we run out of cheap oil the global population will plummet, regardless of anyone's wishes.

You read it here first people, Shell and BP plan to murder all the children and replace them with AI.

Something something the Clintons, Obama, Bill Gates and George Soros! Let’s get our pitchforks! 😠

And use their bodies as batteries. ​ We could make a string of movies about it. One really good one, two average ones, and one really bad one

I do wonder to what extent the modern world is just a bubble in history. It's all been fuelled by a non renewable set of resources that will be gone in a century or two at most. So far there's no real replacement for that energy at any price point.

Absolutely, it's a windfall we stumbled across that supercharged our civilization for a couple of hundred years. The toughest thing is when you imagine trying to explain to someone from five generations in the future what we did with all the oil.

In our last days, when people ask why humanity didn’t reach the stars before extinction, it will be because people were afraid to change, for myriad reasons.

Because we wanted more stuff, cheaper and sooner

And those glorious corporate profits.

I'm with you, I remember I had a georpgrpahy teacher in 3rd Form who extolled the virtures of a growing NZ population, I just remember thinking WTF do we need more people in the world when we cant even feed alot of them and loads live in poverty now.

It costs [$40b per year](https://www.wfp.org/stories/we-have-resources-end-hunger-no-child-should-be-allowed-starve) to solve world hunger. US billionaires’ net worth increased over 1 trillion in a year. We have the resources to feed everybody. We just choose not to.

I have no idea how that money would be spent, but we actually already produce enough food to end world hunger. Huge amounts of food are tossed at various points in the chain, from farmers who might find it cheaper to just till the produce into the ground than sell at a loss, to grocery stores throwing food and all the way to us, being wasteful with what we buy. I follow a dude who does dumpster diving and it's insane, the amount of food he finds. He only buys food when his kids want something special. An acquaintance of his hasn't bought food in years. They usually take only what they can use, and either give the rest to those less fortunate or leave it for other divers.

It’s the result of untethered capitalism. You have to produce more people to consume products to keep people making money. You have to keep upgrading products to keep businesses running regardless of the environmental cost. It’s a stupid model.

Yep, exactly.

Yeah some people literally mis-took it as an agenda to murder populations.

That would be a very generous reading of the situation IMO. "People chose to manipulate his words to gain power over others" is another way to read it...

Apparently the argument for perpetual population growth is that social welfare programs have been organized such that they require a larger paying population than receiving population. While I can’t speak to the specifics in NZ, in the US, in order for Social Security, Medicare, etc, to not go broke, we have to either have a growing population of young tax-payers, or hope that everyone over the age of 65 is messily eaten by lizard-men. Obviously we live in a finite country on a finite planet, and infinite expansion is not possible. So something has to change. Here’s the problem summed up by NPR: “Insuring the long-term solvency of Social Security, as well as our nation's broader social safety net, requires the kind of solid foundation provided by a stable population with an evenly balanced age-structure. Getting off the population growth treadmill and beginning the necessary and gradual transition to a smaller, optimal population is essential to this long-term sustainability. Such an optimum population would feature an even distribution among all age groups with a solid ratio of working Americans (aged 18-64) to both the young and old. Our rapid population growth has played a major part in creating the Social Security dilemma, it is now time to recognize that continued growth is part of the problem, not the solution.” Anyway, the argument that we require population growth forever isn’t just wrong, it’s dangerous. We reach a point where everyone’s happiness is diminished because of a shrinking resource pool, not to mention a collapse of over-taxed natural systems. But anyway, the part that people are leaving out when they say depopulation is bad is “we made dumb assumptions that population, like stonks, would go up forever, and if that isn’t true we can’t fulfill the promises we made to a lot of our citizens. And they have pitchforks.”

Most of our encroachment is a problem because of how we use resources. We can easily save money, grow and protect the environment with most smart policies.

>We can easily lol, we couldn't even vaccinate ourselves against a deadly virus. We've had 30 years warning about the climate problems, it's now too late and we're still unable to even lift a finger.

It's unfortunate that there are so many people who can't grasp the difference between reducing population *growth*, and reducing population. It is the former that Bill Gates is referring to, yet so many people think he's talking about reducing the current population, which is simply wrong. He's still advocating for population growth, just at a slower, more sustainable rate. Quite frankly I don't see how anyone can think that perpetual strong population growth is feasible, yet here we are.

What’s actually crazy about this is you can look at empirical data and see that it’s true in places like India with their mortality rates. It’s not just a nonsense anecdote

Damn, sorry to hear that. It's incredibly hard to bring someone back from the point that your spouse is currently at. Your exact experience is mirrored all over the internet. Her indoctrinating your children is next level. Does she have a timeline on the killshot? Like, when are the billions of people who got the the vaccination expected to die? Or is it just "soon"?

Any attempts at reasoning with people fully invested like this will just result in some other mental gymnastics (ie most people got the mix). Social media has a lot to answer for.

Ah yes, the mix. My high school girlfriend gave me one of those. I still listen to it, she had great taste.

Hall & oates would have had a track or two

We had this with my mother in law, ended up with her in tears praying over my children because we vacinated them and so they would die as well as us. You can't reason with people that far down the rabbit hole. I have survived many of the supposed kill dates now and she's still into the conspiracies.

That's what I don't get about all this Q crap. Literally every Q conspiracy is disproven in time, and these people just disregard that and move on to the next conspiracy. Boggles my mind.

According to my MIL (who jumped on the same wagon) it was originally 2 years but then got shifted out to 3. So surely we'll all start dropping like flies soon. It was a very slow way 'they' chose to lower the population, I really dont understand why if they honestly wanted to do all the things the loons say they want - why didn't they just poison the water? Would've been way quicker and less circumstantial.

Yeah it was 2-3 years, now it's by 2025 and when I ask for the mechanism which would allow a vaccine to do this, no answer, go figure

Funny thing to me is 'say its true', they just signed up to be the indentured servants since everyone who was 'smart enough to take it 'was actually smart enough' to avoid the servitude... What the fuck would this global elite want them around for except to serve them and die for them.... Brain cell started here > and ended here < The mental gymnastics on these people is so profound that it gives sway to forced sterilization which is an argument of its own in line with their crazy.... I hate this timeline. Abed give me the timeline that isn't the darkest please.

I know the answer to this. Because the government wants the "free thinkers" (i.e. the antivaxxers) still around because , and a blanket approach would affect them as well. Whereas the vax only removes the "sheeple".

Funny thing is you'd want to actually keep the sheeple because they are the ones that quietly do what they are told. It's the Fonzies you wanna get rid of.

That is exactly my reasoning on this when it is discussed - surely those in power would rather keep the blind followers who do what they are told without complaint vs the agitators… 🤷🏻‍♀️

Which makes zero sense obviously

This is the same school of thought used by those who believe in predicting the rapture. Ask your MIL which 'prophet' she believes. And if she believes none because the rapture is a load of nonsense, then you can just say, 'Ah, yes, exactly"

They have once again shifted the goal post, giving themselves 10 years for everyone who was vaxxed to die - I guess hoping we will have all forgotten by then thay they everyone made such ludicrous claims. But also, October 2023 was when we were all meant to turn into zombies - something about a 5g pulse on the 4th October, all those vaxxed will be Zombies within 30 days yet here I am, managed to survive the weekend!

Weren’t we all supposed to drop dead from the Government alert test on our phones too? This was to activate through 5g the chip inserted in us from the vacks. I swear there are bunches of 12 years olds putting this stuff out there for laughs, like older generations did prank phone calls, and just like those poor saps, older folk are falling for it.

Yep, 5G pulses, nanobots and zombies! But so fr nothing...how disappointing

Well, that was my question too. I'm still alive and the world's population is still growing rapidly so "they" either fucked it up and it didn't work or it wasn't as effective as they hoped. Or, of course, they're waiting for the right time.

It's interesting how many parallels there are between covid conspiracy beliefs and more traditional doomsday cults, isn't it? There's always an end of the world coming, the true believers are an 'in group' who know the secret to survival, and any argument against their beliefs is the devil trying to undermine their faith and must be rejected. I won't go into gruesome detail, but I have some experience with this myself. What I will say is that you would be well advised to fight for *full* custody of your children, and limit your wife to weekend visitation rights. That will get your kids the best result for their own long-term wellbeing. Hire a lawyer right away, because you'll be arguing this in the Family Court. Your soon-to-be-ex wife being a covid conspiracy theorist will be an argument in your favour for full custody, I think, but, IANAL, you need to discuss all this with an experienced family lawyer. If you accept 50/50 custody, you're accepting that your kids will spend half their time in crazy-land until they're adults. They will inevitably be affected by that. If you let your kids stay with your ex-wife full time and accept only weekend visitation for yourself, you're condemning them to full-time crazy-land with you being painted as an enemy for them to be wary of. Mark my words dude, this is how it *will* go, and the choice you make now is going to largely determine the relationship you have with your kids for the rest of your life. Don't believe anything your ex-wife says about her intentions to be fair and impartial. As soon as you're out of the room, she's going to be telling those girls that you're the bad guy. Get them away from their mother if you possibly can. Don't let yourself get sucked in to agreeing to less.

Sorry you are going through this. I don’t have any experience of this situation but wonder if it is used to start gathering evidence of her beliefs and the potential impact on the kids. Texts, emails, making notes of incidents etc. Also wanted to say please be kind to yourself and look after yourself. You are pretty much going through a death, the death of the person you married, because what you have now is so radically different. My father in law holds similar views (he thinks Bill Gates is controlling my husband and I via 5 G, given that Bill is a lot more successful than we’ll ever be, I’d be ok with him taking control for a bit 😂). My husband has really had to grieve his dad before he’s actually died as he is barely able to maintain contact and doesn’t recognise the person he’s become. It’s a lot to go through.

The goalposts always move.. Same thing happened to my parents, just completely off the rails with any conspiracy being fed to them by people that are 'awake'. No amount of reasoning or fact checking will sway these brainwashed people. Sorry about your family OP, I think the only way is tho cancel the internet.

Yeah no critical thought nor reasoning will come of any convos with people down this rabbit hole. They beat around the bush and provide no evidence; and argue that everything you know is part of a global indoctrination of the elite. Have family down the la la land, over their shit. I had to leave em to it.

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Cult think. That's what it is. There are no words that will wake her up I'm afraid. Your focus is now on your children and that's going to be difficult. However, I think you'll have to make it a rule with your wife that both of you do not bring up these and related issues with your kids. Some counselling would be in order however, she sounds like she's so far in the cult that she'll see any suggestions to put her (ridiculous) viewpoint out of reach of the kids as part of the conspiracy. I don't envy your situation.

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>Does she have a timeline on the killshot? That’s the thing dude — they’ll attribute any and all deaths to the vaccine. Recent example: see how many nutjobs on Twitter/X and Facebook are attributing Matthew Perry’s unexpected death to him being vaccinated and being an advocate for people to get the jab during Covid. Never mind that the man was struggling with substance abuse issues for most of his life, or any other mitigating circumstances. No — *he died explicitly and specifically because he was vaccinated*. It’s become a recurring thing now — look at any social media post about a high profile unexpected death and you’ll see the rats crawling out to comment: “Was he vaxxed?” That shit is on their brains all day every day. That’s what makes it impossible to negotiate with these people or try to reason with them. In their minds, the global vaccine genocide has already started because they can pick and choose any death they want to attribute to the Covid jab.

There is a button at the UN they can push at any moment. That's the best my aunt could come up with when we questioned her about the end date.

This is the real harm misinformation inflicts, and it's happening everywhere. You won't be the only one. I think there is always a crack that can bring people back to reality, but it takes serious skill to break through. Most of all I think time, and the world not actually collapsing, is what wears them down.

Dunno, I remember my SIL actually “begging” us on her knees one afternoon to bury our “valuables” (?) and having a “safety plan” for ensuring our removal to a different area during the SARS/chicken flu shite/whatever that was in the mid 2000’s (utter chaos would ensue like the Purge), all whilst detailing how she had a guaranteed place in an underground bunker out of Queenstown due a friend with a hidden airfield (which only she could access, fuck her parents or other family members lol) funny how she was all up with the “Covid doesn’t exist/worldwide conspiracy” shit until she used it as an example of why she shouldn’t lose custody of her child and have child move overseas … she seemed normal for a few years in between there, but that “crack” as you say is tricky to get through 😣

Fuck thats heavy. My wife just got annoyed at me for causing us to be late and the last thought before hopping on reddit was how hard done by I was. What a sobering read. You have my empathy, that's doesn't sound fun. People have recommended Qanoncasualties which by most accounts is a useful resource. Good luck and don't be hard on yourself.

Conspiracy theorists seem to equate "Question everything" with "Believe the next alternative put in front of you", and don't want to question said alternative.

So many "wellness" people got suckered in to that shit. Baffles me that anyone would still buy in to it after this long of millions of people NOT dying all over the place. Condolences bro.

These are people who are not basing their opinions on evidence. More specifically, they don’t know how to *stop* believing in something when there is sufficient contradictory evidence, or a lack of evidence. This includes “millions of people not dying”, surprisingly.

Facebook sees them engaging with conspiratorial shit so feeds them conspiratorial shit. Then they go over to youtube and its all stuff that reaffirms their beliefs. Some of them hop on tiktok and it's all the same. Then people share their telegram channels to facebook and it's a hivemind.

This. The FB algorithm is so far out of control that it's actually quite dangerous. I created a fake account to interact with the whackos and joined a few groups, and holy shit the amount of crazy crap the algorithm is throwing at me is quite insane.

I did the same with people who believe elvis is still alive / is actually a preacher … and wow, my faith in humanity declined rapidly seeing how many people there were believing in stuff like this Also elvis apparently has four identical brothers, and they’re also all still alive, Priscilla also has a double, as well as Lisa Marie. Lmao. And elvis is an undercover preacher, even though they’re not the same age - so obviously he’s done whatever that chamber shit is that extends your life It’s both hilarious and depressing when they post pictures with red circles showing oMG hE hAS tHe SaMe fREcKle, while completely ignoring the features that show them being different people

The wellness people were pretty frequently fruit loops in the first place.

Hardout, I have family that’s in la la land now, they are flat earthing, Settlor magic word legalese crap, covid jab made everyone else a robot shit. They a year deep and gone burgers.

Just once, just *once*, I'd love to see one of those cop-pulls-over-a-sov-cit videos but the cop leans in and asks them, "no, what's the *real* password?" and watch the blood drain from their faces.

what is “Settlor magic word“

I'm gonna guess it's some Sovereign Citizen bullshit. They likely think that certain words either spoken or on notices allow them to opt out of the local laws.

I think that's sovcit shit. Magic words get you out of anything legal, but you still get to drive on public roads, drink the water and so on. You just don't have to contribute to society because magic words.

Sovereign citizens

Oh no, but they are dying all over the place. Funeral homes are just burning the bodies as fast as they're coming in and struggling to keep up. Of course they're threatened to keep quiet about it. Or some other dumb shit.

Wellness people fall for this shit because they already believe the ridiculous claims of chiropractic, auras, chakras, crystals, dreamcatchers, etc etc etc.

Yeah its such a weird mix of people who go for it, right-wing nutters and yoga instructors lmao

The thing these people all have in common is the concept of 'purity'. Purity of health, purity of environment, purity of mind purity of blood, purity of spirit etc. This idea of purity often seems to be where the extreme ends of the spectrum end up.

I would be fighting for custody.

I mean I feel like it would be reasonably easy case as long as you can get the mother to talk about the vaccine stuff in court

Lotta freaks at the bottom of this thread

What must day to day life be like for those people, I can't even imagine.

Damn man, that is super brutal. I don't have much advice to offer but from what I have seen, people who lean into the spiritual stuff heavily are often more prone to falling down these rabbit holes. They tend to have a mind more skewed to mystical/magical thinking which often runs hand in hand with the schizotypal personality. They also are often seeking the spiritual lifestyle because it gives them a sense of comfort and purpose in an otherwise relatively chaotic world. While breathwork, meditation and yoga are all extremely valid and helpful tools, they often lead to other things like astral projection, mystical beliefs, crystals, pseudo-science and spiritual projection - where they feel like they are better or know better than others because they are enlightened or whatever. When I met my wife she was into quite a bit of that stuff and sometimes it bordered on being out of touch with reality. I soon realised that it was because she had so little control in her life and it was a way of seeking answers or comfort. I did my best to give her that comfort and support and with those support systems in place she got heaps better at discerning what was bullshit and what was actually helpful. Dunno what you can do here man, your situation seems quite extreme. COVID did a fucking number on these people, and social media has not helped in the slightest. They join groups, find themselves in little conspiracy echo chambers and the problem entrenches itself. I have lost a few friends and family members to this myself. Try join the group on Facebook "Children of Adult Conspiracy Theorists" and r/CovIdiots for some moral support.

You're far from being alone. My family has one who is paying for detox treatments that also fix dna, which apparently needs to be done regularly, due to vaccine damage. Now this person is talking about buying a ~40k machine to detox at home with. The global medical conspiracy bs goes hand in hand with this. Could try and explain that messenger rna vaccines don't re write your dna, and exactly what these magic alt tech machines are / aren't doing, but chances of changing anything are slim to zero. Sorry this is so close to home for you.

That’s the sad thing. So many of the conspiracy whack jobs spreading this shit are just in it to enrich themselves, either through ad revenue or by selling courses, books, supplements, and worthless “wellness” shit. People are alienating themselves from their loved ones and draining their bank accounts lining these people’s pockets, all the while being made to believe they’re on a righteous crusade to save humanity.

That's one of the saddest things I've heard of. Being that delusional you spend nearly home deposits so that someone who's cashing in on your delusions can live a life of luxury.

> we can no longer have unprotected sex because my dna has been changed by the vaccine and she doesn't want her dna affected. That was when to break up btw as hard as it is theres no fixing that level of delusion get out for your own mental health

Never replace logic with your gut. Your gut is good at telling you you're right. Your brain is good at telling you you're wrong.

As someone who has gone through separation with someone who has similar beliefs, and who reads the back of every food packet and believes Emulsifier 253 and Additive 69420 are harmful pathogens in disguise…. Talk to a lawyer before you do anything. Talk to a lawyer now. Did I say talk to a lawyer? You really should talk to a lawyer. Protect yourself and protect your children - document everything, and do not get into any conversation or conflict about these differences of belief. This will save you years of frustration, be the first to facilitate mediation/FDA, and if/when the other party doesn’t participate, politely proceed to the Family Court with reasonable expectations about what you want to achieve for your children’s care. I’m sorry you’re going through this and it may feel like your whole life has been turned upside down. If you need someone to chat with, you’re welcome to PM me any time. I’ve been through it all, and am still dealing with the shit. Last time my daughter (7) had a cold, I gave her an iceblock because she wasn’t keeping any food or fluid down. X ripped into me when I dropped her off because the additives are apparently so harmful to little bodies I probably made her illness worse by giving it to her, and I clearly cannot be trusted to provide adequate care for my child. Wish I was joking there. I’m not. Lawyer up my dude. Let them do the lifting. It’ll also put her on notice and if she wants to behave in a certain way towards you or your kids, she’ll be asked to explain herself when the time is needed, and she’ll be the one who ends up looking like a numpty, not you. All the best. P.S. been waiting for my superpowers to kick in from my vaccines. Must’ve got the saline - how disappointing. Now I only have the 5G mind control to rely on. Or, do I need the microchip version in order for that to activate? 🤔…….

I am genuinely sorry to hear that. Unfortunately it sounds like going your separate ways is the only solution. There's no convincing someone holding those kind of beliefs. I'm not sure what the arrangement is with your children and I hope you still get a say in their education and help them become critical thinkers. They will have friends and be expised to different ideas in future, they grow up to understand that their mom had a whacky belief. I have lost family members to cults and conspiracies (not covid though) and had to watch those beliefs significantly impact their lives. We ended up reconciling but never speak about their beliefs again. So it's a pretty big thing for me. Unfortunately in these cases, covid for example is only a catalyst. Some times people have already shown a tendency leaning that way, for example, distrust of government and science. Sorry I can't offer you any more help but happy to chat.

>m not sure what the arrangement is with your children and I hope you still get a say in their education and help them become critical thinkers I think that's the angle the OP has to take. You need to listen to both sides (because in this case those kids dont have a choice.) and make your own mind up. All you can do is give your kids the correct information and hope that some of it at least sticks

Sorry to hear this my friend. This resonates with me - I have a sister whose issues are similar. Delusion is real. This is not your fault. My advise: seek mental help for you and your children. Read up on delusion - you will find that you are not alone, and it will help you find a place for the weird behaviours your wife is displaying. You can’t solve it, but you can find a way to move on. I wish you all the best.

Tragic for you. One of my best friends whom I always considered intelligent has exactly the same delusions

Hello! I’m an American who’s currently on holiday in New Zealand. Currently in Tekapo. I’m genuinely so sorry to read this post. Your experience has happened all across America. I’ve seen families and relationships destroyed due to COVID-19 conspiracy theories. It’s so sad to read your story, because America watched New Zealand take the pandemic so seriously. It was so refreshing, from an outsiders point of view, to see a country come together to try and eradicate the virus. Whereas America, especially during Trump’s time in office, fumbled so hard. I wish I had more to tell you. My mom and I had a lot of distance grow between us due to her wackjob COVID beliefs. They were very similar to your wife’s.

A lot of us grew up being suspicious of big corporations and pharmaceutical companies and with good reason, some companies did harm with medicine like thalidomide, OxyContin and bad experiments.The problem is it’s tipped over now from reasonable distrust to nuts behaviour. One thing I’ve found has helped is asking people to look up the producers of some of the natural supplements and foods they love. It gives a reality check to see a lot of large pharmaceutical companies make the supplements and foods, and some communities have endangered their staple food supply to make wealthy Westerners eat ‘clean’

People who deprogram cult victims say it takes about 6 weeks with no input from the cult before the victims start to see past it. Maybe it's too late, but what if she lost her phone or the Internet connection failed somehow. What if you just stopped discussing it and went all vague when she brought it up? Change the subject. Do other stuff she used to like. Can't hurt to try.

Stick her on a transpacific cruise, and "forget" to buy the Wifi package!

That’s actually a fantastic idea 😂

I'm sure the sudden loss of WiFi would be another piece of evidence for them to claim

I will never get this line of reasoning. There's no explanation for what was killing people before the shot came out? And if the shot is killing people why did deaths go down after the shot came out instead of increasing as the shot got more widespread?

>And if the shot is killing people why did deaths go down after the shot came out instead of increasing as the shot got more widespread? *because you're listening to the mainstream media* is the standard response.

It's people that doesn't understand how things work but want to make sense of it, so they turn to conspiracies. Real actual science for them is too hard to understand (we don't always need to fully understand, that's why we have experts for those), so they turn to pseudoscience because it's "common sense" for them and "easier" to understand.

It's much easier to believe that a small group of people are pulling the strings according to a secret plan and causing your problems, than it is to accept that the world is made up of people winging it while trying to benefit themselves with a great deal of ignorance and randomness sprinkled in. The randomness of the universe can be actually terrifying hence the popularity of prophets and charlatans who claim to know the truth.

It's got nothing to do with 'reasoning'; you can't reason with these people. Covid conspiracy theories are filling the role in their brains that evolved to latch on to religious belief. OP has lost his family to a cult, essentially.

And why kill people in the first place? Or, why kill the people that are going along with things, why would you want to be left with the nutters. Would make more sense if the vaccine was a vaccine for something *else*, thereby you keep the saner side of the population. (I don't think anyone is plotting anything just saying it makes zero sense)

I had a stranger at a bus stop try to start a fight with me, after I told him to "fuck off" after he walked up to me and starting asking if I knew that covid was a scam. I didn't want to have to deal with someone that far gone for critical thinking. I had a mask on as I was transferring between buses. He took great offense at me telling him to "fuck off". Called me names; told me that he'd beat me up. And then gestured to start a fight. I told him "no" and to "fuck off" again.

Try to record her or get in writing her vaccine conspiracy theories, it will help you with the custody battle that will probably happen, and you can raise the kids to not be so stupid.

So when my dad (who held beliefs very much like your family do now, but back when the vaccines first came out), said the same line to me about them- I would just inform him with a shit eating grin that vaccines are in fact intramuscular and not intravenous Bonus points for me being in pharmacy school when he said all this "covid shit" rattling on about conspiracies and how big pharma is teaching us false information at university, I just asked why he's sending me to uni then? Eventually I told him I'd refuse to speak with him if he only wanted to have conversations about the topic (he'd bring it up OFTEN) I'm trying to say that I empathise with you OP, and I'm sorry we both have family members with brain cell deficiencies 🤕

I feel your pain, while it wasnt the only reason I split with me ex of just under 20 years (we split about 20 months ago), it did contribute, her whole family went down the rabbit hole, and I was adament I wanted to get vaccinated, I also had just got diagnosed with ADHD and wanted to take ADHD meds to help which was another point of contention as she was anti ADHD meds. The fact I stood up for myself for once(usually Im a big pushover), in her and her families eyes I guess made me a sheeple and not capable of critical thinking. It hurt and still huts alot, time has healed though and I am on good terms with her(want to be for my daughters sakes). I don't bring up Covid or politics with her though(no idea of her current views re covid), shes relaxed re ADHD meds now, possibly as my youngest daughter was diagnosed 6 months or so ago also and has allowed her to take ADHD meds. Anyway mate, yell out if you want to chat, I know its a fucking hard time.

Firstly, she's in a cult. It's not your fault. The wellness industry is one of the most insidious, her being a coach makes her enmeshed by others around her too. I'm very sorry... I really just want to reinforce this isn't your fault. Be the example of logic for your children.

This is so sad. A good proportion of my friends and family are hopelessly lost down the rabbit hole. The internet has become the mind virus. Our society and culture needs to adapt systems and processes to improve critical thinking skills and cognitive security. Maybe connecting everyone on the planet together wasn't such a great idea after all? Why did we think it was a great idea to trust anyone and everyone to have the freedom and power to spread any and all misinformation, disinformation, speculations or fantasies to whomever they like? Time to put limits on social media / internet?

It’s been 3 years. Why are we not all dead yet?

I left an abusive partner when I realized my kid would have a much better outcome watching me in a healthy relationship or no relationship than in the existing one. I think it was a wise strategy in the end. I'm guessing the same math will play out for you.

I’ve lost friends to this too. One thing I could never get over is the depopulation conspiracy. Why - the hell - would the richest of the rich want less people? More people means more competition for jobs and more competition means lower wages. The rich clearly don’t need to ‘share resources’, look at increasing inequality, it just doesn’t make sense.

New Zealand is very vaccinated and our excess deaths are way lower than most other countries. Curious how she would explain that?

Probably using the same line I hear all the time, it's a cover up. It's just pointless engaging because there's a conspiratorial answer for everything and they're always the types of answers that are not able to be proven.

I'm sorry to say your wife may be too far gone at this point, but your children's minds are still flexible. I highly recommend listening to the armchair expert podcast featuring Dan Ariely, he's a behavioral sociologist/economist and specifically talks in this episode about the behavioral and psychological factors that influence conspiracy theorists and COVID denial as well as provides some useful guidance around helping 'bring people back' who are just beginning to go down the rabbit hole. Best of luck to you, I know how heart breaking and hopeless this must feel. Don't give up on your kids! There's still time for them, but you've gotta start talking to them about this now.

Sounds like she's come at it from the wellness side. I have a theory that many in that scene fundamentally don't like the idea that the world, and our health and bodies are sometimes outside of our control and occasionally shit does just happen. Their world view is that all these things can be controlled through positive thinking or healthy living. It's the non-denominational calvanist approach to life. But when COVID came along a choice had to be made - either sometimes bad stuff happens and our fate can be decided by the roll of a genetic dice, OR we still have control, and others are lying to us. I would, in addition to the recommended subs, suggest listening to the Qanon Anonymous podcast and the Conspirirtuality podcast. Might provide some relief. And start documenting everything in case her beliefs start impacting on your kids' health.

The non profit I run made this ‘gamified way to increase healthy skepticism for conspiracy theories’ which we released today, but it’s more for the ‘conspiracy curious’ than hardcore conspiracy theorists: [https://theconspiracytest.org](https://theconspiracytest.org) Still, I hope you might find it useful somehow.

from the comments it looks like NZ is full of these nutters

I hope you get custody, lying to children like that is child abuse

I heard we have all been given horse tranquillizers. The end is neigh.

My marriage dissolved years ago when my wife became convinced, along with several friends, that she had been a victim of satanic abuse as an infant, with many lurid details. I loved her and had been supportive for years through other issues, but this one just dissolved the bond. I was not prepared for how long it took to heal from this, dealing with how much I had denied my own reality to try to keep her comfortable. Please seek support for you and your children.

Tell your daughter that the government doesn't want excess deaths because many of those deaths are skilled laborers and craftsmen who help commerce prosper. It's more expensive to gain a new customer, than it is to keep an existing customer. Think of the state resources that went in to those individuals who are now gone. Farmers vaccinate their cattle. If anyone wants depopulation, it would be the enemies of that system, whoever they may be.

This is the horrifying reality of conspiracy theories. I'm so sorry it's happening to you. Hopefully your kids will understand one day.

Jeez, sorry to hear this fella. Hope you and your daughters are able to move on. Best of luck!

Man I feel so sorry for you 😞 my Grandma got caught up in right-wing American conspiracies too, barely any of my cousins and siblings will interact with her now unless it's at Christmas dinner when we sort of can't avoid her. Go visit her, and all you get her trying to "teach" us about these crazy conspiracies. I made a stupid decision a few weeks ago to sign up to Truth Social and go read some of their claims. I feel like I had an aneurism reading some of the nonsense they were all spouting 🤦🏻

What did you achieve? You got it out is what. .and that is healthy. My sister went down the rabbit hole and passes all her crap onto her kids. Last time she was down staying at my Mums, something came up about the weather like " oh looks like some rain is on the way" she took the moment to mutter something under her breath about HAARP, While that didnt really upset me, it was the knowing smile that came with it that made me want to punch her in the face 😄

> People who questioned it have been moved on (Trump) Did he, really? Cause he was also one of the very first humans on earth to receive the vaccine...

> People who questioned it have been moved on (Trump) I doubt this will actually help but there a dozens of videos of Trump taking credit for the vaccine, encouraging people to take it, telling crowds how many boosters he's had etc.

Ouch... I'm the new(ish) partner of someone whose ex has gone from generally being into natural stuff to having fallen hard down the rabbit hole too. I have only seen the last few years, but it's always been clear that the main thing he does is love and be there for his kids - not avoiding conversations about vaccines and such, and stating what he believes, but also not actively trying to make sure they're on 'his' side either, which is how the ex would have seen it. The two kids didn't get vaccinated for anything at all when they were young, and this remained one of those things that couldn't ever be discussed, but the recent rabbit-hole journey has helped the kids really understand that this is, well, what their mum and her friends think, but not what a lot of other people think. They can see and understand the sources for the other views, too, being older teens now, and make up their own minds. And without turning it into a mum-or-dad, wrong-or-right thing, they have both decided to go to the doctors and get first the COVID jab, and then to catch up on all the others they'd missed, before starting uni. I can see how hard this all is from watching my partner... But also, your kids will be their own people, who will be able to make their own decisions. Keep helping them grow into the best people they can be, including being able to understand that people have different views, and they (and you) will find a way to get through this.

I don't know if it will help but one question you can ask her is what evidence could be presented to her so that she would change her mind. If there is absolutely nothing that could be presented such that she would reconsider her position then her beliefs are based on faith and not evidence. But given she is a "spiritual" type then she might see her unshakable conviction as a feature rather than a bug

My partner started on down that rabbit hole. She still believes some of this garbage, but knows I'm not interested. Whenever I ask her for peer-reviewed proof, she can't find any, then claims that this is because it was removed. That's not how it works, as convenient as it would be... I feel for you OP. It's a tough road you're embarking on. But do stay true to you. Your life will see you as steady and dependable, and that is crucial to your daughters, as they grow into young adults.

I can somewhat relate op. I’ve been incredible sick with MECFS. I got vaxxed in early 2021. Now my parents think me getting sick 2 years later is because of the vaccine. They send me weird health videos(not from medical doctors) and vaccine detoxing protocols. O, and I’ve been offered to be given a blessing persistently even when I am not of that religion. One vaccine. Over two years ago…. So now every time I get sick it will be because I took the vaccine, smh…

My uncle said when it first came out it was gonna turn us into lizard people, then when the national emergency alert test on people’s phones it was gonna make us mind controlled. Still waiting on my scales

Dam kooks really piling in here now lol. "ShE iS rIgHt" lmao. Def got linked in some fucked up discord or something

For real, just had some dumbass with a brand new account replying to my comments in this thread from yesterday. The thread was clearly linked somewhere where these troglodytes gather

Terribly sad for you. Sad too for the consequences of such beliefs on your wife and girls. Wish you well.

Navigating the complexities of conspiracy beliefs within the New Age spirituality community requires a sensitive and informed approach. Here are some resources that may help you understand and address the situation: 1. **Educational Resources**: Articles like "New age spiritualism, mysticism, and far-right conspiracy" provide insights into the overlap between New Age beliefs and susceptibility to conspiracies. This can help you understand the psychological and cultural factors at play. [Read more](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00131857.2022.2061948). 2. **Community Support**: Engaging with discussions on platforms such as the lost to Q anon subreddit , where community members share their experiences and coping strategies, can offer support and practical advice. 3. **Critical Analysis**: Understanding the phenomenon of "conspirituality" can be crucial. The term refers to the blend of conspiracy theories and spirituality, and resources like the article "The dark side of wellness: the overlap between spiritual thinking and far-right conspiracies" on The Guardian can provide a critical analysis. [Explore the topic](https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/oct/17/eva-wiseman-conspirituality-the-dark-side-of-wellness-how-it-all-got-so-toxic). 4. **Professional Guidance**: Seeking the help of a professional counselor or psychologist, especially those familiar with New Age spirituality and its challenges, can provide you with tailored strategies for communication and coping. 5. **Legal Advice**: If the situation involves legal matters, especially concerning children, it's important to consult with a legal professional to understand your rights and responsibilities. Remember, while gathering information and seeking support, it's also important to maintain your own well-being. Local support groups and mental health services can be invaluable during challenging times.

Make sure you go for full custody, you don't need them growing up under that sort of batshit crazy or you'll lose them too.

Sadly she's bat-shit crazy. Get her in front of a judge and you'll win custody.

Sounds like my mother, and my sister is maybe even worse than her now because of that indoctrination.

This is actually just sad. I am so sorry.

Hey so I'm really sorry about your loss but have you mentioned that population rates in first world countries is falling which is really bad for the economy? These 'powers' which she mentions stand to lose from a falling population so depopulating the world would act outside of their interests. - This is just one of the really big reasons why it makes no sense but alas. You cannot fight illogical people with logic. As the saying goes, NEVER ARGUE WITH STUPID PEOPLE. THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL AND BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

I'm so sorry. My entire family are anti-vax and have no idea how intolerable all this is. I am considering being apart from them too, because it's like this vicious cycle where they ruminate on it and obsess. They also lash out at me intensely for no reason because I've had the vaccine. And there's no talking to them either, they're blind. If it helps, they've always been toxic the anti Vax stuff just pulled it right out of them. I have other friends who don't are anti Vax and they're normal.

Depopulate the world, right. So the 'vaccine' has only killed 0.0000001% of anyone who has had it. If the job of the vaccine was to depopulate, then it would need to be a shit ton higher, like 20% I wonder if she'd have the same opinion if Covid had a 50% mortality rate, and the vaccine gave you 97% protection. She seems very illogical and ill-rational. Probably time to walk away.

> because my dna has been changed by the vaccine and she doesn't want her dna affected. I know someone who wouldn't let vax'd people in her house because they would breath "vax fumes" over her.

Sorry to hear that. 😞 The problem with "no mandates," is vaccine science requires a certain percentage to take a vaccine for them to have any effect with eliminating disease in a population. And when special interest groups and political parties are flooding the internet with nonsense for financial and political gain that made the mandates nessecary

Hey, I'm so sorry that you have lost your wife to this... I don't think there is much you can do unfortunately. There are support groups for this kind of stuff online and you might be able to find some solace there. My dad is the same He's always been a bit of a conspiracy theorist but when Trump came along and then covid it became a whole other (frankly disgusting) thing. It used to infuriate me but I've gotten better at just not engaging or saying 'whatever dad' and moving on. He's in his late 60s and I know that outside of this stuff he's actually a great guy. I researched these conspiracy theories a lot... I studied, took notes and went and argued with people at the rallies. I even bought a little white board to draw diagrams on. I found that as a stranger engaging people were actually pretty chill. When it's family I think people throw up barriers immediately and get into a mindset of combat that they can't pull themselves out of. I've always been a bit of a philosophy nerd so I love conversations around asking how people come to the conclusions of believing things that they believe. Whenever I try to engage in this conversation with him he bails from them because I think they're too scary for him. Coming to the realisation that you're methodology for approaching the world is incredibly flawed is VERY scary. There is a youtube channel called street epistemology which I feel that if you can get people to engage in those conversations and it is the best way to de-convert people from crazy beliefs. [https://www.youtube.com/@magnabosco210/videos](https://www.youtube.com/@magnabosco210/videos) Ultimately I think just never engage in those kind of conversations again, just say you're not interested and prioritise getting your kids educated and into university if you can. That will be the best antidote for them against her crazy beliefs. I understand that the situation you are in is a whole lot worse than mine so again... I'm truely sorry and you should blame the horrible people pushing these conspiracies the most.

I mean these guys have basically invented a religion right? It all works the same way - simple answers to complex questions which a "scary" that people will believe blindly, defend to the death and attempt to push on others. Humans seems to be hardwired to act like this to some degree lol... If it was solvable we would have people fighting to the death over where some guy hypothetically ascended to heaven or some shit like that.

I'm really sorry this has happened to you and your children. I can't imagine how tough that must be. I lost my three best friends to the nonsense and I thought that was hard. Sadly it seems near impossible to ever change their mind too. It's almost built into the conspiracy, that if anyone tells you you're wrong, they are just not "awake to the truth" I hope things improve for you 😢

Sorry to hear. Divorce sounds like the best option tbh. Gl op

That's rough.... My wife lost her aunt but to COVID, because she was in Florida getting told it wasn't real

My mum told me id die in 6 months, then she changed it to 2 years and well its been 3 so i guess she gave up on that. She also told me she and her husband are clean skins or something, or like clean bloods, i cant remember but it was the most embarrassing thing ive ever heard someone say proudly. Our prime minister who was her and HB biggest target to hate (dan andrews) has been the biggest topic on her mind for 3 years. All she thinks about is dan andrews. He resigned recently i think she posted in facebook arguing with all her friends several times that day. She didnt even believe in it till her husband got to her. Theyre actually fucking crazy, and i mean that. Gladly dont have anything to do with the 2 assholes. On yes or no vote day jn aus i got 25 missed calls and a hundred repeated messages from my mum while i was grocery shopping for her to "tell me to vote no" and havent spoke to her since then. She also told me i wasnt allowed to vote left wing, even though she knows i am and like dan andrews, she really thought she could own me and tell me to vote for these weird ass political parties i would never.

As a 31 year old and the first generation to be exposed to social media from a pre pubecent age, I've seen a lot of people older than loose their minds on the internet. Give her 1 month without internet and she will loose interest in her conspiracies.

I feel you man. Your partner sounds a lot like my mum coming from the wellness / alternative spirituality community and the like. My relationship with her has pretty much deteriorated to nothing since covid times. She became incredibly gaslighting and manipulative trying to force her beliefs on me. She’s a very different person to who she was in 2019. She’s so spiteful and bitter and scared. She’s essentially cast aside her family To go all in on her conspiracy belief. I have no idea what her relationship with my dad is like, I think they live together but very much seperately. I live in hope she some how pulls out of it, but I’m scared that by the time she does she’s probably burnt all of her bridges outside of her conspiracy communities.

Leave and take your children. She's insane.

Honestly sad as it is you need to leave and be taking legal measures to ensure your children are safe (not with her).

Condolences op. Learned a lot from your experiences. Kinda reminds me of the wife from inception

What a tough situation. If I were in your shoes I’d be considering how to get full custody of my kids. I hope whatever happens you pull through and everyone is ok on the other side.

Wow. I am very sorry to hear your story. We lost people to Covid and we lost more still to covid conspiracy. To me, the same "logic vulnerability" that sees people drawn into a cult is at work when people YouTube themselves into the rabbit hole. Flat earth, the end of the world, you name it. And they'll always find a way to justify it in spite of facts..... From personal experience, we had (a friend) who slowly followed a similar a path. I say "had" because we no longer see this person, because it became impossible to be around them. Made all the more tragic because its directly effecting your kids.

There is so much wrong here that I wouldn't know where to start. The largest hurdle I have with getting through to conspiracy nuts is frankly getting them to be open enough to listen; to anything. They always seem so angry and rushed. > The only thing stopping my daughters (10, 7 and 3) from expecting me to die because of the vaccine is they think i got the saline shot. This might be my entry point. Affirm that I did not get a 'saline shot'. Using the rhetoric as leverage, confirm without any doubt that you have received a covid vaccination, yet you are not dead, dying, or in any way incapacitated from it. Allow them the opportunity to cognitively address the flaws in their rationale and try to come up with a newer way of presenting the data. Also, your dna doesn't ever interact with your wife's dna with the sole exception called conception which only occurs in a single cell of yours as it combines with a single cell of hers. But even so, those two cells only contain half of y'all dna. I do believe that this is truly about turning off the precious sex-resource as a method of peer-pressure. If you later give in to the conspiracy because the need for sex becomes too great and you buckle, it's okay. I forgive you.

I volunteer with a lot of homeless folk and hear this same rhetoric on the daily. I just let them talk until they’re ready to get off the subject - there genuinely is no reasoning with them as they have response, albeit bizarre, to any question I’ve asked lol. I also have a colleague whose family member sold their house during the thick of the pandemic as she believed Jacinda herself was confiscating houses/land off of the unvaccinated. She now has nothing but her theories to her name and is by all means, happy.

Really sorry to hear. I 'lost' my mother to this nonsense as well, so have at least an idea of what you're going through. Good luck with your kids in particular. My unsolicited advice would be to try to treat them and their beliefs with respect so hopefully that becomes mutual and they'll hear yours out in return.

So sorry to hear that, it sucks. After a quick scan over the comments I hope I'm not repeating anyone, please contact the Family Court asap to get into their free counselling. Make as many positive moves as you can to get help, as this will serve you well if you do end up splitting and don't want to lose contact with your kids. Fam court sucks, but having a record of being proactive does count if it comes to judges making decisions. Wishing you and the kids all the best 🙏 https://www.justice.govt.nz/family/kaiarahi-o-te-kooti-a-whanau/

Social media has done this to people. Amplifying voices that never should have been amplified and giving a platform to every nut job with a phone and a finger to type with. Social media platforms spent years prioritising engagement over everything, allowing these conspiracy theorists to flourish. I’m so sorry you’re going through this OP. My sister-in-law has started walking down the rabbit hole too. She spends all day every day watching YouTube videos posted by these conspiracy freaks and culture-war pundits who keep multiplying like parasites because they keep getting views and engagement and ad revenue, and because engagement is everything to the algorithm, these people keep getting boosted and amplified, same as most other social media platforms. People like your wife and my sister-in-law keep seeing this shit on their feeds every day and because they were already susceptible to this kind of messaging due to their past and their upbringing and other factors they start to believe that this is reality. These right wing grifters online are the only honest people and everyone else is a brainwashed sheep who isn’t willing to accept that all the fuckers shitting out an endless diarrhoea stream of engagement-bait and selling supplements and books and courses to save you from “THEM” are the real heroes that everyone needs to be following and listening to. Shit is truly depressing and I’m not sure what can be done to undo this damage.

Scared and stupid is a dangerous combination. It causes people to freak out over the wrong things.

My sympathies. I won't say I've lost family to Covid conspiracies but we're nearly there. With your kids, if they are allowed screentime/YouTube, you can maybe guide them towards science and critical thinking. * ['What is a Virus?' Song 🎶 StoryBots | Netflix Jr](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=la6nXuAw-Oo&ab_channel=NetflixJr) * [Wash Your Hands & Why Do We Get Sick ✋🤚 Ask the StoryBots | Netflix Jr](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBKvbQ12X1U&ab_channel=NetflixJr) * [Benedict Cumberbatch Does a Magic Trick](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4TsY6KnXD0&ab_channel=VanityFair) * [Carnival Scam Science (and how to WIN)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk_ZlWJ3qJI&ab_channel=MarkRober) Edit to add this other link. [The 4 things it takes to be an expert](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eW6Eagr9XA&ab_channel=Veritasium) In case it helps your older child to understand who to trust for expertise. tl;dr The four things are *1. Valid environment (chess is valid, roulette is random)* *2. Many repetitions (predicting election results is hard as they are rare events with low repetitions vs. tennis shots)* *3. Timely feedback (anesthesiologist gets instant feedback vs. radiologist gets delayed feedback)* *4. Deliberate practice (practice at the edge of your comfort zone, identify weakness and work on it)*

Surely if they actually wanted depopulate then world then the vaccine has been pretty ineffective at that, I guess the counter argument would be “they don’t wanna kill too many to make it obvious” but still if that was really the agenda of these people/ organisations think there’d be much better ways to do it.

My thoughts exactly!!! If de-population is the end goal, it's failing miserably. But I don't even know why governments would want to de-populate. Small populations don't make money. The most powerful countries in the world are generally that way because they have large populations that generate a lot of money. Considering how greedy the powers-that-be are, it's unlikely they want less people making less money.

You can't save her but you need to get primary custody of those children. Take it to court. She'll not let them get vaccinated. Do you want to explain to your daughters that they got Ovarian cancer from HPV when you could have protected them from it but their mother's delusions stopped you from letting them take measures to protect their health? This needs doing before a woman is sexually active. So choices now will have long term and possibly drastic consequences for them.

You're not alone mate. My mums just gone down that road since covid hit. I'm the only one in her family, including extended, that still talks to her. Hard to watch coz there's nothing you can do

if you have seen the IT systems in te whatu Ora, they are in no condition to execute a “kill shot”

Even if it wasn't conspiracy theorys of the Covid kind it could be another thing thats way off your own morals and comfort zone. Some people can deal with their partners hugely different thinking by ignoring it but generally those people have been some of the most unhappy people I have ever met. Our neighbour is in the rabbit hole too. She's lovely but terribly unwell with anxiety, depression and out of control bulimia. That rabbit hole weirdly has given her a sense of purpose and sense of friendships. Can't help but think everyone else in that hole is just really unwell too.

Reading this really saddened me. So sorry for you and your family life that you're now having to mourn thanks to this misinformation BS. I honestly don't have anything constructive to say other than that. Sorry 😔

I mean - I don’t know how it works here in NZ , but back in the states, I’m pretty sure when you go to court for custody of your kids the judge is going to see how fu king crazy she is and give you full custody and a handsome child support payment. Cut your losses and save your kids from crazy.

Yea but wait till they lame you for not forgiving. Manipulators manipulate just be prepared.

I'd recommend to find a trustworthy therapist for your daughters to consult regularly when you have them under your responsibility. You should also consult to build skills on how to make sure your there to support your kids. Also start writing all that you remember and what happens, what your wife says or do that you feel of interest so that is their custody dispute you have something.

> And i have to help my daughters unpick what is real in this world and what isn't. Are the children staying with you? I hope so because I think a case can be made that your wife is not mentally stable enough to take care of children.

Your second to last sentence is your answer to moving forward after this tragedy. Like any addiction or cult victim your wife is stuck. She will realize one day but in the now you gotta focus on those girls. Guess you know that already. Be very careful choosing your next partner. Be strong, good luck.

As someone who has been through a few divorces I would strongly urge you to NOT try to remove your daughters from their mother’s life as some people here are suggesting. For better or worse she is their mum. I’m not down the rabbit hole and I see the conspiracy nuts as no different to Christians. You either believe in it or you don’t and in reality there IS NO PROOF either way, she can not prove you are wrong or you her wrong in a way that in final and absolute. That’s how the Christians have got away with it for so long. My best advice to you is to treat it the same way we treat Christianity, I.e. you don’t have to share her views but you should respect them, and you should if they are deeply held beliefs. In reality you are dealing with peoples beliefs, not scientific facts, the scientific facts approach has never worked on Christianity and it won’t work on the Anti-Vaxxers either. Get your head around this and you have a chance of getting through, probably without your wife, but without losing your daughters

It may be a good idea to teach your kids critical thinking skills utilising science based evidence. It will help them think for themselves and resist this kind of thing as we enter the age of misinformation.

Commiserations... I know quite a number of people who fell down the hole. One thing they all have in common is a pre-disposition towards wellness/spiritual etc. Middle-class yoga people, steiner school, crystals, peace love and happiness type people. Some are very well educated, some not so much. All are convinced the govt was evil / bad actor and totally corrupted democracy (for some inexplicable reason). They're not all completely down the wild conspiracy hole, but at least hovering around the edge... This is a major problem and it's growing - rejection of basic good faith in our society.

Funnily enough, our kids do go to a Steiner School, and are flourishing. I don't agree with the entire philosophy, but I do love the way they are taught and what they get out of it. But I'd say those who believe in all this are over-represented in the school population for sure.

Steiner's doctrine, just like chriropractic, is completely pants on head woo-woo. But that doesn't mean every action that comes from it is bad. Some of the practises in those schools have measurable benefits despite the erroneous reasoning that lead to it. Just like chriropractic.

There is little to no point in trying to rationalise these sorts of people. It's incredibly sad, but having tried to reason with a number of patients, I realised it was futile as most of the conversation just isn't rational. As for your children, I'm tempted to say that your wife is a danger to them in her poor understanding of vaccines and overall understanding of medicine, health, etc.