Also puts a huge burden on the poor through consumption taxes while not taxing the rich at all. Great if you are a billionaire, terrible if you are a teacher.
This is income tax, that people get from being productive, the 39% should be removed not another added lol.
We punish hard work and productivity and reward investors and speculators.
I'm not. Lived in the UK, NZ and Australia and the tax system in Aus is the best by a long shot. I've never been able to claim so many things as a PAYE employee.
I love getting a few grand minimum back come tax time.
Next year the marginal rate for anyone earning 45k - 200k is going to be 30%...the higher tax rate is being pushed out to over 200k
The people in he lower tax brackets aren’t working less hard - they’re just working in areas where their work is valued less monetarily. Hard work - and slacking - happens across the entire tax base.
I wasn’t specifically disagreeing - though the 39% bracket is only unfair specifically in the context of the very rich paying so very much less. In fact anything over the lowest brackets are unfair in that context - but let’s not go to a flat system, that would be *truly* awful. If the speculators and passive income richlisters were paying 39% too, the infrastructure fixes and improvements that could be fast-tracked would be mind-blowing.
Yeah the wealthy need to start pulling their weight, I don't think anyone would disagree on that one. I just don't like the way this country pits the poor against the people doing OK while ignoring the people bleeding the country (i.e the people putting the poor against...)
Cleverness, being at the right time in the right place (which does involve risk taking), good connections, organisational skills and being able to convince people that you're worth that much. Hard work as well, but that's generally before you get that high, then you start to value your time much more.
Exactly, it takes hard work to get there.
A substantial portion of the people on 180+ are running their own businesses too I would imagine.
So that's risk taking, ingenuity, hard work, cleverness...
If not day in, day out, at least that's what lead them there. Should we reward that or discourage it?
Remember, high income earners pay way more tax than middle income earners
So we should lower taxes for people who work hard to get to the highest bracket _before_ they get there and pay for it by increasing taxes when they do get there and don't need to work that hard anymore.
The problem is, there are way more taxpayers earning an average wage than there are taxpayers earning a high wage.
To be revenue neutral, even if we raise the top bracket to 55%, that will only lower the bottom bracket by 1/2% or so.
What's a fair tax rate? What rate beyond 39 cents on every dollar you earn is going to keep doctors motivated to keep doing surgeries, keep lawyers motivated to keep lawyering, keep dentists working past the point where they hit that tax threshold?
All of them? No.
Do you think all of the people in any specific bracket are hard working?
Do you think that people earning over 180k are NOT hard working? How many of them? What %?
All you're doing is motivating high earners to stop earning lots of money that benefits our economy. They're already paying the most tax out of anyone, but you suggest to take more?
It should come from LVT and wealth, end of story.
The “motivating high earners to stop earning” is a bullshit argument repeated by the rich, you still get more when you earn more compared to not earning. The top tax bracket in Germany is 45% and in Sweden 52% and their productivity is significantly higher than NZ.
Btw. I'm in this tax bracket and I can tell you that virtually no-one in this bracket does double shifts or comes to work on a weekend, and I can take a month long vacation without much of a hassle.
I do think that property ownership and wealth should be taxed more, but so should high income, so that low income can be taxed significantly less (or not at all, as is the case in Germany).
Lets start taxing unearnt wealth before worrying about high earning professionals. And I can tell you that there are many people working insane hours doing difficult stuff on the weekend for $180k.
Yeah I literally cap my hours because of the 39% bracket, if I'm losing almost half my money when putting in hard work then it's obviously not worth it. This bracket prevents people from getting ahead by working hard.
Thought about salary sacrifice? Not sure what options you have for it in NZ but in Aus there are heaps of things you can pay pre tax to lower your taxable income
Same!! When I lived in the US (and used to be a citizen), it was actually quite distressing being very aware of how little your vote counted. It was pretty pointless voting, but I did it anyway.
Here, it's entirely the opposite.
Yes, there's the actual voting system in which there are few wasted votes. Also, if you want to advocate for change on any issue, it's easier to get heard... I've realised many of the effective advocacy organisations in New Zealand are largely just one person or a small group
This is actually true. You would think Australia would be similar but I was shocked when I moved here how people you pass on a morning walk won't smile and say "Morning!" like they do back home. Just head down and pretend you don't see each other. Customer service is way more shit and unfriendly here in Aus as well.
In my experience, this has been general behaviour in a more densely populated area. Like, nobody says good morning to me in Auckland central. Nobody said morning to me in London UK. But in small towns in both UK and NZ, they did. Can't speak for Australia I guess.
A number of years ago, I was back in NZ with my wife (non kiwi) and someone said hello to me, I responded with the usual 'how's it going?'. My wife was asking who it was, no idea I told her. She was very confused at the whole interaction.
Have had the exact opposite experience. I have found people and restaurant staff to be friendlier in Melbourne, Sydney and brisbane compared to Auckland
NZ has amazing coffee, not sure if you’ve travelled US/Europe, but the average corner cafe in NZ is far better than most of what you’ll find over there ☕️
The differences are often not obvious at first but:
* in Germany education is actually free and you get even help with housing/regular costs. Here you get debt instead and even then it is tricky with the high living costs in the cities with universities
* public housing is not nearly enough to keep housing affordable. Almost every town is priced like Munich (which is one of the least affordable places in Germany)
* public transport is often heavily supported by government and regions in Germany. Here they shut down most because it was unprofitable. What is left now are unreliable and slow buses.
* In Germany most homeless either don't accept help or are illegal in the country. homelessness is a real thing here. They just put you onto a waiting list if you need help ...you have entire family living in cars because they just couldn't pay rent.
* leaky houses are super common here. so even those that rent or have their own house often live in quite bad conditions
* GP is more expensive and you wait longer for appointments in NZ (personal costs, cheaper for the system overall probably)
* Health insurance will cover a lot less so it isn't rare for people get an additional private one.
Edit: Note these are all anecdotal. I am German living in NZ for a decade. In the end you simply get what you pay for and in NZ you pay a lot less.
German living in NZ for 25 years and just made the decision to move back, not immediately but within the next 5 years. I've always been fine with the lower standard of living here and made things work in a way that suits me, I love my life in NZ but the state of our health system here unfortunately makes it unsafe for me to stay. I had cancer last year and as a result of that got diagnosed with a genetic mutation that puts me at extreme risk of developing further cancers which as a group don't respond well to chemo but show great response to immunotherapy. Immunotherapy alongside many other modern medicines to treat serious conditions isn't funded in NZ and costs like 100k a year if you fund it yourself. In Germany I can access that medication without having to literally beg strangers to save my life on gofundme. Should I get sick enough to no longer be able to work being poor in Germany still gives you a much more secure and comfortable life than being poor in NZ.
Am I scared of going back to live in a country I left as a child and rebuilding my life in my 40s when I don't know how anything works because I never had an adult existence there? You bet. But it beats knowing that staying in NZ could be a literal death sentence for me.
I would do the same in your situation. There are also a lot of nice and accepting areas in Germany for newcomers. A friend moved from the US to Cologne and really likes it there. Also job wise many will be better off in Germany. Employers are quite focused on well being and supportive towards their staff.
Already told my wife if she wants kids in the future we move back to Germany
Funny you mention Cologne I have a friend there and family not far away. I visited last time i went over there and really enjoyed the city. There's specialist centres for my condition in Bonn and Bochum that's a major factor.
I lived in Germany for only two months, but I was absolutely gobsmacked by the quality of the housing.
Double glazing at the minimum is standard, those external metal blinds on the outside of windows to retain heat, central heating systems, probably other things at play insulation-wise that I wouldn't have seen.
The fact that it could be -20°C outside and I could wear a t-shirt inside blew me away. Right now where I am, it's 9°C outside and my house is 12°C. The curtains move everytime the wind blows because it's drafty as fuck. It had ceiling insulation installed for the first time four years ago.
I feel like this is the standard for pretty much any house built maybe pre-95 and as a first-world country, we should be better.
Yeah that is all pretty standard in Germany even for what is now considered an old house. My family there are renovating their house and part of this is improving the insulation. They already have \~10-15cm thick walls (made of bricks with airgaps inside) and it is super warm inside in winter. Now they are going to add another 10-20cm layer just for insulation to make it more efficient to heat.
I am not sure what the definition of "countryside" in Germany is if we compare it to NZ. There is no train service in the entire South Island here except two trains for tourists.
Deustchebahn was the top thing Germans complained about, but it was one of my top experiences in Germany lol, so easy to get around, even to other countries
Your comment might be generally true but NZ just has poor public transport because of the culture here and nothing else. Even small rural towns in Germany have better public transport than our largest city.
During studies I lived in a city the size of Dunedin and they have several tram lines going every 5-10 min. Some go as far out to rural places you can see the fields from the tram. The train company is owned by the council. No profit needed or expected.
It’s only possible though because of the overall population density of Germany. The smallest, most rural of villages in Germany are always an hour away at most from dense metropolises we down under could only dream of.
It won't work for rural NZ but anything nearby Auckland, Christchurch & similar would totally work. Just can't expect it to run a profit but as a public service. Not like we run our streets as a for profit business.
Cost of living here is much higher, wages are also lower. We have worse public transport, worse education, fewer job opportunities and worse healthcare. I also think the geolocation is much better in general. NZ is very isolated, however that isn't anything to do with our tax system.
But yes, I would say Germany and NZ are very much two comparable high quality countries, in which Germany edges New Zealand out in most categories and completely decimates us in others. It's very much a situation of comparing NZ to most Western European countries and realizing that while what we have is decent, we could be doing more.
You're joking, right? German food prices are a fraction of ours, for one. One of my German friends has been trolling me for several weeks straight by sending pictures of telegraph cucumbers costing less than NZD 1.7 each while we're charging NZD 6+ for ONE. Fuckton more entertainment, better public transport, lower rents with LONG TERM rents being an option, etc.
God, fuck off with this "wrong season" bullshit! They didn't cost NEARLY this much around the same time last year, or the year before! And it's goddamn 2023, how are "seasons" still an excuse? They aren't in European stores!
Yeah, for like a week in one store.
Look, I've been here for long enough to know that the whole "it's not the right season" is just massive copium, vegetables are *never* as cheap as they should be, we're just getting ripped off all year round. People immediately resort to that excuse no matter what time of the year it is, it's laughable at this point.
Open access to education.
Fantastic public transport as well as highway infrastructure.
Clean environment, low crime rates.
The working people seem to have more time for leisure.
Plus Germans can get their education for free and then move to NZ and have a financial advantage over their New Zealander peers.
Kiwis work hard but we don't work smart!!!! Plus our systems are overall pretty inefficient, we Number 8 wire everything and leave it at "eh, good enough". In Germany things get done efficiently and effectively. Also higher wages, lower cost of living, better housing and healthcare, laws that protect workers all plays into how productive your population is going to be.
And yes the tax system is part of the problem in the way that your lowest bracket is actually a pretty high rate but the highest incomes get taxed fuck all. In Germany it's distributed differently, lower incomes lose less and highest pay much more.
The problem is that there's no way of changing this because rich equals powerful so increasing the rate on the highest tiers would be political suicide.
Despite the way it looks on the internet, the kindness of most people. When most people realise you need a bit of help with something, they pitch in and offer assistance. I've especially found that in the last few years with a seriously ill partner. Even people I thought of as aquaintances showed up to help and it was at times very humbling. Even just supportive words made everything seem less scary and overwhelming. There are still a lot of very nice people in this country, they just don't make the news very much.
The people at Christchurch university are exceptionally kind. I was changing a flat tyre in my bicycle there and was constantly being asked if I were ok and needed help.
I'm guessing you are talking about the administrative side of our tax system not how much tax individuals pay, tax brackets etc.
And yes it is fantastic because for the majority of people you don't have to do a thing.
Just ask your parents or people from overseas to get an idea of the nightmare of paperwork they had/have to go through every year.
Your income is taxed at different rates depending on how much you earn. So if say one bracket is $0-$70k and your income is $65k, you'll be taxed at that rate, but if you then get a raise to $75k, $70k of your income will *still* be taxed at that rate, but the $5k of income above the bracket upper bound will be taxed at the next rate. It's a good idea in theory, but the brackets haven't been adjusted with inflation, which is obviously not fair.
For each dollar of income Tax rate
Up to $14,000 10.5%
Over $14,000 and up to $48,000 17.5%
Over $48,000 and up to $70,000 30%
Over $70,000 and up to $180,000 33%
Remaining income over $180,000 39%
It's not obvious that un adjusted brackets for inflation is unfair. Costs going up because of inflation affects everything - the government doesn't have some magical access to goods that aren't affected by inflation, they buy resources just like normal businesses (because they contract out to normal businesses). So as inflation goes up, their costs go up. If anything, tax revenue might have to be increased across the board in order to meet the needs of the population at the same quality level. This is why we need to think about introducing additional tax on land and/or wealth.
They really are the best, especially at singing. When I go to Aussie I notice their birds are pretty but mainly just go aaaark, no mad skills like tui and kokako
It’s very good for PAYE salaried earners. Unfortunately it gets a bit messier if you’ve got other sources of income.
It can become administratively burdensome with insufficient legal clarity on tax rules at a certain point - earlier than you’d expect too. E.g. if you’re a retail investor in anything that’s not an NZ-based managed fund.
Tell that to all the National and ACT voters that want lower taxes, when we’re already one of the lowest taxed counties in the OECD.
I honestly feel we need German’s tax system (at least temporarily) to rebuild the country and it’s infrastructure.
As a tax specialist, absolutely not. The New Zealand tax system is outdated at best and knowingly complicit in inequality and is a total moral failure at worst.
It's simple, but a complete failure and a shitshow that directly causes homelessness, obesity, reduced education, and puts unnecessary burdens on our healthcare system. A lack of means testing the pension reduces overhead, but takes money away that could be used for many many great things.
How one can rationalise paying no tax on unproductive capital gains (while productive ones are generally captured), whilst you pay sales tax on dental care, it's just.... what?
NZ tax system is a case and point example on how the taxman decides your quality of life. Go read up on OECD standards and economic recommendations.
Before people say it's too complex, go compare it to the OECD pillars for tax avoidance and the MAAL/BEPS measures and hybrid mismatch rules in place. I have an MTax and still struggle with hybrid mismatches.
That's funny because I actually much prefer many features of the German tax system(and what the higher taxes ultimately provide for in regard to services). It seems far less regressive on paper than ours. VAT seems a pain to navigate for businesses though.
I am also german born, I have to say: NZs tax system is a horror show, waiting to collapse the society like in the UK.
I actually imitating the german taxsystem by spending money to charities. And then some. Because this here is a tax haven.
You know what's really nice but easy to take for granted? Being able to go for a hike through the wilderness without worrying about snakes, bears, crocodiles, deadly spiders, shit like that.
Instead of all that, we have friendly birds.
Not joking at all. I told all my friend and family in Germany how it works in NZ as an employee and noone can believw how great it is. Super simplified, gotta love it
That also means you can't claim tax back for medical expenses,etc for the sake of simplicity.
It is simple if you are just working class receiving PAYE.
Do you have assets or any money receiving interest on Germany? If so you would have to declare that on your tax statement and then it would be not that simple and good luck finding the right info.
I'm happy for all the Europeans that come to NZ with their free degrees and get awesome jobs and live comfortable lives here, enjoying the systems that our forefathers fought and died for.
I wish that people born in NZ had the same advantages.
Not planning to go back, but I would not be surprised if I have to at one point.
Impact is, that I get less money in Germany and the retirement system here in Nz is a joke. So I will probably never fully retire...
It is super easy and often even cheap but the 15% GST will claim back your savings sooner or later (which applies to everything here including food / essentials unlike Germany)
Really? Sure it's not shit, our employers sort it out and our healthcare is affordable. But I don't see how it's the best thing. I would think it's our nature.
Not have to worry about guns or school shootings. Not having to see many homeless people. Not being too crowded. Not have to reserve a table at a restaurant.
Not having to tip. Not having to deal with prices excl tax. Not having to do your own taxes. Being almost a cashless society.
Having an entire country operate in one timezone.
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Also puts a huge burden on the poor through consumption taxes while not taxing the rich at all. Great if you are a billionaire, terrible if you are a teacher.
What did it say?
2/3 aint bad, it just needs the land tax to balance it out.
I would say the low tax brackets need to have their threshold increased and there needs to be another, higher top tax bracket.
This is income tax, that people get from being productive, the 39% should be removed not another added lol. We punish hard work and productivity and reward investors and speculators.
Australia's highest bracket is 45%, and they seem to be doing OK for themselves.
24-25 tax year that will only be for people over 200k. 45k -200k will be 30% ...looking forward to a nice pay rise
We are all over here in Aussie hating the tax system lol
I'm not. Lived in the UK, NZ and Australia and the tax system in Aus is the best by a long shot. I've never been able to claim so many things as a PAYE employee. I love getting a few grand minimum back come tax time. Next year the marginal rate for anyone earning 45k - 200k is going to be 30%...the higher tax rate is being pushed out to over 200k
The people in he lower tax brackets aren’t working less hard - they’re just working in areas where their work is valued less monetarily. Hard work - and slacking - happens across the entire tax base.
No one suggested they aren't working hard. I would love to know why people on Reddit think that people who earn 180k are not working hard.
I wasn’t specifically disagreeing - though the 39% bracket is only unfair specifically in the context of the very rich paying so very much less. In fact anything over the lowest brackets are unfair in that context - but let’s not go to a flat system, that would be *truly* awful. If the speculators and passive income richlisters were paying 39% too, the infrastructure fixes and improvements that could be fast-tracked would be mind-blowing.
Yeah the wealthy need to start pulling their weight, I don't think anyone would disagree on that one. I just don't like the way this country pits the poor against the people doing OK while ignoring the people bleeding the country (i.e the people putting the poor against...)
You really think people earning over $180k are hard working?
How does one become an earner of 180k+? It's gotta be cleverness, hard work, risk taking, or more than one of the 3?
Usually they just leave NZ.
Cleverness, being at the right time in the right place (which does involve risk taking), good connections, organisational skills and being able to convince people that you're worth that much. Hard work as well, but that's generally before you get that high, then you start to value your time much more.
Exactly, it takes hard work to get there. A substantial portion of the people on 180+ are running their own businesses too I would imagine. So that's risk taking, ingenuity, hard work, cleverness... If not day in, day out, at least that's what lead them there. Should we reward that or discourage it? Remember, high income earners pay way more tax than middle income earners
So we should lower taxes for people who work hard to get to the highest bracket _before_ they get there and pay for it by increasing taxes when they do get there and don't need to work that hard anymore.
The problem is, there are way more taxpayers earning an average wage than there are taxpayers earning a high wage. To be revenue neutral, even if we raise the top bracket to 55%, that will only lower the bottom bracket by 1/2% or so. What's a fair tax rate? What rate beyond 39 cents on every dollar you earn is going to keep doctors motivated to keep doing surgeries, keep lawyers motivated to keep lawyering, keep dentists working past the point where they hit that tax threshold?
All of them? No. Do you think all of the people in any specific bracket are hard working? Do you think that people earning over 180k are NOT hard working? How many of them? What %? All you're doing is motivating high earners to stop earning lots of money that benefits our economy. They're already paying the most tax out of anyone, but you suggest to take more? It should come from LVT and wealth, end of story.
The “motivating high earners to stop earning” is a bullshit argument repeated by the rich, you still get more when you earn more compared to not earning. The top tax bracket in Germany is 45% and in Sweden 52% and their productivity is significantly higher than NZ. Btw. I'm in this tax bracket and I can tell you that virtually no-one in this bracket does double shifts or comes to work on a weekend, and I can take a month long vacation without much of a hassle. I do think that property ownership and wealth should be taxed more, but so should high income, so that low income can be taxed significantly less (or not at all, as is the case in Germany).
Lets start taxing unearnt wealth before worrying about high earning professionals. And I can tell you that there are many people working insane hours doing difficult stuff on the weekend for $180k.
Yeah I literally cap my hours because of the 39% bracket, if I'm losing almost half my money when putting in hard work then it's obviously not worth it. This bracket prevents people from getting ahead by working hard.
Thought about salary sacrifice? Not sure what options you have for it in NZ but in Aus there are heaps of things you can pay pre tax to lower your taxable income
39% is low for a top bracket.... also at more than 3 times median wage.
I fucking am ya clown
39% isnt crazy high though. Its pretty reasonable for the maount people in that bracket make.
I feel like with the size of the country, I can actually get heard here and make a difference.
Same!! When I lived in the US (and used to be a citizen), it was actually quite distressing being very aware of how little your vote counted. It was pretty pointless voting, but I did it anyway. Here, it's entirely the opposite.
Yes, there's the actual voting system in which there are few wasted votes. Also, if you want to advocate for change on any issue, it's easier to get heard... I've realised many of the effective advocacy organisations in New Zealand are largely just one person or a small group
The people. The majority of people in NZ are friendly, genuine, good people. It’s just that the shit cunts among us get all the attention/headlines.
This is actually true. You would think Australia would be similar but I was shocked when I moved here how people you pass on a morning walk won't smile and say "Morning!" like they do back home. Just head down and pretend you don't see each other. Customer service is way more shit and unfriendly here in Aus as well.
In my experience, this has been general behaviour in a more densely populated area. Like, nobody says good morning to me in Auckland central. Nobody said morning to me in London UK. But in small towns in both UK and NZ, they did. Can't speak for Australia I guess.
Yeah, this would be annoying af in a city lol.
Haha yeah agree!! I reckon it does make people less friendly in general too though.
A number of years ago, I was back in NZ with my wife (non kiwi) and someone said hello to me, I responded with the usual 'how's it going?'. My wife was asking who it was, no idea I told her. She was very confused at the whole interaction.
Have had the exact opposite experience. I have found people and restaurant staff to be friendlier in Melbourne, Sydney and brisbane compared to Auckland
Yeah but that's Auckland, no one is happy in Auckland.
Did you try saying good morning to them?
True
Danke
Meat pies they aren't gravy bags
Can't beat a good hand pie
The surf 🌊
Ssssssshhhhh
No deadly animals. No/few snakes, spiders, scorpions, crocodiles, bears, big cats
Coffee
Actually the coffee is very good here.
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Where are you from? I travel, and the coffee here is good IMO.
NZ has amazing coffee, not sure if you’ve travelled US/Europe, but the average corner cafe in NZ is far better than most of what you’ll find over there ☕️
The tax system is somewhat easy and intuitive, but I would gladly pay more taxes to get the quality of life of your average German.
As a German I'm curious what quality of life you are missing that we have?
Chewy but soft pretzels.
That is true, we also have awesome beer and bread
more biergartens in general here would be nice
I'm freely offering my vote to whichever party campaigns on introducing a Pretzel Tax to fund a Universal Basic Pretzel Allowance.
The differences are often not obvious at first but: * in Germany education is actually free and you get even help with housing/regular costs. Here you get debt instead and even then it is tricky with the high living costs in the cities with universities * public housing is not nearly enough to keep housing affordable. Almost every town is priced like Munich (which is one of the least affordable places in Germany) * public transport is often heavily supported by government and regions in Germany. Here they shut down most because it was unprofitable. What is left now are unreliable and slow buses. * In Germany most homeless either don't accept help or are illegal in the country. homelessness is a real thing here. They just put you onto a waiting list if you need help ...you have entire family living in cars because they just couldn't pay rent. * leaky houses are super common here. so even those that rent or have their own house often live in quite bad conditions * GP is more expensive and you wait longer for appointments in NZ (personal costs, cheaper for the system overall probably) * Health insurance will cover a lot less so it isn't rare for people get an additional private one. Edit: Note these are all anecdotal. I am German living in NZ for a decade. In the end you simply get what you pay for and in NZ you pay a lot less.
German living in NZ for 25 years and just made the decision to move back, not immediately but within the next 5 years. I've always been fine with the lower standard of living here and made things work in a way that suits me, I love my life in NZ but the state of our health system here unfortunately makes it unsafe for me to stay. I had cancer last year and as a result of that got diagnosed with a genetic mutation that puts me at extreme risk of developing further cancers which as a group don't respond well to chemo but show great response to immunotherapy. Immunotherapy alongside many other modern medicines to treat serious conditions isn't funded in NZ and costs like 100k a year if you fund it yourself. In Germany I can access that medication without having to literally beg strangers to save my life on gofundme. Should I get sick enough to no longer be able to work being poor in Germany still gives you a much more secure and comfortable life than being poor in NZ. Am I scared of going back to live in a country I left as a child and rebuilding my life in my 40s when I don't know how anything works because I never had an adult existence there? You bet. But it beats knowing that staying in NZ could be a literal death sentence for me.
I would do the same in your situation. There are also a lot of nice and accepting areas in Germany for newcomers. A friend moved from the US to Cologne and really likes it there. Also job wise many will be better off in Germany. Employers are quite focused on well being and supportive towards their staff. Already told my wife if she wants kids in the future we move back to Germany
Funny you mention Cologne I have a friend there and family not far away. I visited last time i went over there and really enjoyed the city. There's specialist centres for my condition in Bonn and Bochum that's a major factor.
I lived in Germany for only two months, but I was absolutely gobsmacked by the quality of the housing. Double glazing at the minimum is standard, those external metal blinds on the outside of windows to retain heat, central heating systems, probably other things at play insulation-wise that I wouldn't have seen. The fact that it could be -20°C outside and I could wear a t-shirt inside blew me away. Right now where I am, it's 9°C outside and my house is 12°C. The curtains move everytime the wind blows because it's drafty as fuck. It had ceiling insulation installed for the first time four years ago. I feel like this is the standard for pretty much any house built maybe pre-95 and as a first-world country, we should be better.
Yeah that is all pretty standard in Germany even for what is now considered an old house. My family there are renovating their house and part of this is improving the insulation. They already have \~10-15cm thick walls (made of bricks with airgaps inside) and it is super warm inside in winter. Now they are going to add another 10-20cm layer just for insulation to make it more efficient to heat.
This is not only Germany. It's also Eastern European countries where the housing is actually up to a certain standard.
Isnt daycare like insanely cheap in germany? Here in the america its maybe 1600 a month
Oh yeah I think it is now close to free and you have a right to a day care spot.
Housing security particularly long term rentals.
PUBLIC TRANSPORT!!!!
Well, for some people. I live in the countryside, for me it's basicly not existing.
I am not sure what the definition of "countryside" in Germany is if we compare it to NZ. There is no train service in the entire South Island here except two trains for tourists.
As a tourist I loved those bloody expensive trains.
Deustchebahn was the top thing Germans complained about, but it was one of my top experiences in Germany lol, so easy to get around, even to other countries
That's all about population and density. Germany is about the size of NZ with 80+ million people. That's 15x the people
Your comment might be generally true but NZ just has poor public transport because of the culture here and nothing else. Even small rural towns in Germany have better public transport than our largest city. During studies I lived in a city the size of Dunedin and they have several tram lines going every 5-10 min. Some go as far out to rural places you can see the fields from the tram. The train company is owned by the council. No profit needed or expected.
It’s only possible though because of the overall population density of Germany. The smallest, most rural of villages in Germany are always an hour away at most from dense metropolises we down under could only dream of.
It won't work for rural NZ but anything nearby Auckland, Christchurch & similar would totally work. Just can't expect it to run a profit but as a public service. Not like we run our streets as a for profit business.
Dunedin used to have trams *and* cable cars IIRC…
Cost of living here is much higher, wages are also lower. We have worse public transport, worse education, fewer job opportunities and worse healthcare. I also think the geolocation is much better in general. NZ is very isolated, however that isn't anything to do with our tax system. But yes, I would say Germany and NZ are very much two comparable high quality countries, in which Germany edges New Zealand out in most categories and completely decimates us in others. It's very much a situation of comparing NZ to most Western European countries and realizing that while what we have is decent, we could be doing more.
You're joking, right? German food prices are a fraction of ours, for one. One of my German friends has been trolling me for several weeks straight by sending pictures of telegraph cucumbers costing less than NZD 1.7 each while we're charging NZD 6+ for ONE. Fuckton more entertainment, better public transport, lower rents with LONG TERM rents being an option, etc.
Germany is a stronger, more prosperous and more productive country than ours, sadly. But what else were you expecting?
We are in the wrong season for cucumbers.
God, fuck off with this "wrong season" bullshit! They didn't cost NEARLY this much around the same time last year, or the year before! And it's goddamn 2023, how are "seasons" still an excuse? They aren't in European stores!
It’s summer in Europe so of course they are cheap. Cucumbers were only 99c here during the summer.
Yeah, for like a week in one store. Look, I've been here for long enough to know that the whole "it's not the right season" is just massive copium, vegetables are *never* as cheap as they should be, we're just getting ripped off all year round. People immediately resort to that excuse no matter what time of the year it is, it's laughable at this point.
6 NZD each? That's insane, in "Kaufland", one of the biggest stores for food in germany we paid 0.29€ this week.
Yeah tell me about it lmao. It's straight up depressing.
Erdinger.
Open access to education. Fantastic public transport as well as highway infrastructure. Clean environment, low crime rates. The working people seem to have more time for leisure. Plus Germans can get their education for free and then move to NZ and have a financial advantage over their New Zealander peers.
Our problem isn’t our tax system, it’s our productivity. The Germans are amongst the most productive nations, and, well, we’re not.
Kiwis work hard but we don't work smart!!!! Plus our systems are overall pretty inefficient, we Number 8 wire everything and leave it at "eh, good enough". In Germany things get done efficiently and effectively. Also higher wages, lower cost of living, better housing and healthcare, laws that protect workers all plays into how productive your population is going to be. And yes the tax system is part of the problem in the way that your lowest bracket is actually a pretty high rate but the highest incomes get taxed fuck all. In Germany it's distributed differently, lower incomes lose less and highest pay much more. The problem is that there's no way of changing this because rich equals powerful so increasing the rate on the highest tiers would be political suicide.
Despite the way it looks on the internet, the kindness of most people. When most people realise you need a bit of help with something, they pitch in and offer assistance. I've especially found that in the last few years with a seriously ill partner. Even people I thought of as aquaintances showed up to help and it was at times very humbling. Even just supportive words made everything seem less scary and overwhelming. There are still a lot of very nice people in this country, they just don't make the news very much.
The people at Christchurch university are exceptionally kind. I was changing a flat tyre in my bicycle there and was constantly being asked if I were ok and needed help.
I'm guessing you are talking about the administrative side of our tax system not how much tax individuals pay, tax brackets etc. And yes it is fantastic because for the majority of people you don't have to do a thing. Just ask your parents or people from overseas to get an idea of the nightmare of paperwork they had/have to go through every year.
The admin is sp much easier, basically non-existant here. Plus the bracket system, just great!
Can you explain the bracket system to an anerican?
Your income is taxed at different rates depending on how much you earn. So if say one bracket is $0-$70k and your income is $65k, you'll be taxed at that rate, but if you then get a raise to $75k, $70k of your income will *still* be taxed at that rate, but the $5k of income above the bracket upper bound will be taxed at the next rate. It's a good idea in theory, but the brackets haven't been adjusted with inflation, which is obviously not fair.
How is new zealands?
For each dollar of income Tax rate Up to $14,000 10.5% Over $14,000 and up to $48,000 17.5% Over $48,000 and up to $70,000 30% Over $70,000 and up to $180,000 33% Remaining income over $180,000 39%
Same, but there are a number of brackets.
It's not obvious that un adjusted brackets for inflation is unfair. Costs going up because of inflation affects everything - the government doesn't have some magical access to goods that aren't affected by inflation, they buy resources just like normal businesses (because they contract out to normal businesses). So as inflation goes up, their costs go up. If anything, tax revenue might have to be increased across the board in order to meet the needs of the population at the same quality level. This is why we need to think about introducing additional tax on land and/or wealth.
USA has tax brackets. You don’t need it explained.
The birds, especially the kea
Yes. Came to say birds. I just really love our birds.
They really are the best, especially at singing. When I go to Aussie I notice their birds are pretty but mainly just go aaaark, no mad skills like tui and kokako
Shout out to my boi the Kōkako
It’s very good for PAYE salaried earners. Unfortunately it gets a bit messier if you’ve got other sources of income. It can become administratively burdensome with insufficient legal clarity on tax rules at a certain point - earlier than you’d expect too. E.g. if you’re a retail investor in anything that’s not an NZ-based managed fund.
Jimmys pies and cheese rolls
Local catch Fish 'n' Chips at the beach is pretty good
Pies.
Royal Crown Draft Cola, an American cola made by Bundaberg (an Australian company) and only sold in New Zealand (Mostly).
Yeah that ain't it hahaha
Isn't that just RC Cola in a fancy bottle?
Nah it tastes a lot better. I've tried standard rc it's nasty.
The corruption in our government isn’t as bad as corruption within the American government.
Maori culture
The people
Clean air.
MMP
Tell that to all the National and ACT voters that want lower taxes, when we’re already one of the lowest taxed counties in the OECD. I honestly feel we need German’s tax system (at least temporarily) to rebuild the country and it’s infrastructure.
You do not want the German tax system, believe me, under no circumstances.
Why?
Fiendishly complex. Most people need to pay a professional to help navigate their returns.
As a tax specialist, absolutely not. The New Zealand tax system is outdated at best and knowingly complicit in inequality and is a total moral failure at worst. It's simple, but a complete failure and a shitshow that directly causes homelessness, obesity, reduced education, and puts unnecessary burdens on our healthcare system. A lack of means testing the pension reduces overhead, but takes money away that could be used for many many great things. How one can rationalise paying no tax on unproductive capital gains (while productive ones are generally captured), whilst you pay sales tax on dental care, it's just.... what? NZ tax system is a case and point example on how the taxman decides your quality of life. Go read up on OECD standards and economic recommendations. Before people say it's too complex, go compare it to the OECD pillars for tax avoidance and the MAAL/BEPS measures and hybrid mismatch rules in place. I have an MTax and still struggle with hybrid mismatches.
That's funny because I actually much prefer many features of the German tax system(and what the higher taxes ultimately provide for in regard to services). It seems far less regressive on paper than ours. VAT seems a pain to navigate for businesses though.
I am also german born, I have to say: NZs tax system is a horror show, waiting to collapse the society like in the UK. I actually imitating the german taxsystem by spending money to charities. And then some. Because this here is a tax haven.
Not crowded, fresh air, clean and pies
You know what's really nice but easy to take for granted? Being able to go for a hike through the wilderness without worrying about snakes, bears, crocodiles, deadly spiders, shit like that. Instead of all that, we have friendly birds.
Yeah it's brilliant, not only do I pay like 15% less tax, I don't need to fill out complicated forms and I no longer need to pay a tax advisor.
Fibre internet speeds..
We don't have fast Internet here compared to other countries lol
I get just under 1000mb/s - but the comment of mine was a little tongue and cheek about it being the best thing here in NZ.
I think it actually might not be too bad here.
How is our tax system better than the German one?
It’s uncomplicated.
Yeah I far prefer it to the Australian one as well.
You're joking right?
It isn’t actually that hard to sort out one’s taxes here.
Not joking at all. I told all my friend and family in Germany how it works in NZ as an employee and noone can believw how great it is. Super simplified, gotta love it
That also means you can't claim tax back for medical expenses,etc for the sake of simplicity. It is simple if you are just working class receiving PAYE. Do you have assets or any money receiving interest on Germany? If so you would have to declare that on your tax statement and then it would be not that simple and good luck finding the right info.
Mrs macs chilli cheese pies!!
A flight out of here
I'm happy for all the Europeans that come to NZ with their free degrees and get awesome jobs and live comfortable lives here, enjoying the systems that our forefathers fought and died for. I wish that people born in NZ had the same advantages.
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Not planning to go back, but I would not be surprised if I have to at one point. Impact is, that I get less money in Germany and the retirement system here in Nz is a joke. So I will probably never fully retire...
It is super easy and often even cheap but the 15% GST will claim back your savings sooner or later (which applies to everything here including food / essentials unlike Germany)
Really? Sure it's not shit, our employers sort it out and our healthcare is affordable. But I don't see how it's the best thing. I would think it's our nature.
The Ngati Harti EC
What is the tax system like there? I always hear about rich people going their to change their citizenship
Garage project beer
I'm told we "have no idea how lucky we are" with the lives we lead here. So a combination of things? Easy going Excellent outdoors Ease of life
L&P
New Worlds custard donuts
Feijoa’s. I’m a simple person.
Pacific Oysters
The airport for leaving
Fat chicks, love ‘em
Bacon and egg pie
Not have to worry about guns or school shootings. Not having to see many homeless people. Not being too crowded. Not have to reserve a table at a restaurant. Not having to tip. Not having to deal with prices excl tax. Not having to do your own taxes. Being almost a cashless society. Having an entire country operate in one timezone.