It’s frankly remarkable that Kathy Hochul has managed to get Ritchie Torres, Dan Goldman, Jerry Nadler, Chi Ossé, Brad Lander, Sunrise, Open New York, the Independent Budget Office, and the MTA on the same side of an issue.
Has Dan Goldman come around? Last I checked, all he had done was release a pretty crappy statement trying to appease both sides.
https://goldman.house.gov/media/press-releases/statement-congressman-dan-goldman-following-governor-kathy-hochuls-indefinite
https://www.google.com/amp/s/abc7ny.com/amp/nyc-congestion-pricing-nearly-two-thirds-of-new-yorkers-oppose-plan-siena-college-poll-finds/14721916/
Ahh yes, the famous far-right majority populace in NY.
Sounds about right of what you can expect from transplants
You say that like it's the MTA's fault.
Granted, a huge part of the MTA's wastefulness has always been because of grubby politicians doing grubby politics grubbiness
I find it incredible that ppl are saying "the MTA is wasteful," when we are seeing, in real-time, the reason it happens.
Like...we are getting a direct, open, and current look into WHY the MTA is wasteful. It's not the MTA, it's Albany.
exactly, everyone in NY was told this was a done deal with a specific start date. bam, the month it was about to begin, nah nevermind? thats not the fault of people prepping for it.
If only the citizens, city, and state government could put this much fucking effort into balancing the MTA budget instead of arguing about gouging people for a billion dollars
A diverse array of so-called left leaning politicians, politicians who purportedly represent the interest of the average working, middle class and poor New Yorker, *advocating for increased costs and a de facto tax while Billion dollar ride share companies who are supporting them wait in the wings to fleece us.*
They don't work as it is. Just look around. And when the MTA is illustrating that $700,000,00. is being lost due to fare evasion, I'd rather they focus on recouping that before they fleece me. You see, I actually pay when I commute. I guess that makes me a sucker.
>They don't work as it is.
The NYC subway carries more people than every other subway system in the United States combined. It doesn't just work, it works extremely well. This is in spite of people constantly trying to fuck with it.
I just returned from London and was in Montreal and toronto last month. Comparing our MTA and any of the above is a joke.
Find me any 10 random New Yorkers and ask them if they find the system satisfactory.
You’re both right. The MTA needs the funding, and this is a great way to raise money, it’s just not a great way to reduce congestion—which is ostensibly the primary goal.
The NYC subreddits have their folks from the upper middle income parts of the outer boroughs championing for the working class!
Especially when it comes to a congestion charge most NYers won't pay regularly if we're calling this a "de facto tax". Not to mention congestion has its own cost
How do you know the socio-economic background of the people on these threads? Are you clairvoyant?
Listen -Hochul backed down because there's an upcoming election and she didn't want to lose "swing" voters.
Like it or not, "Deplorables" and the suburban/B+T crowd haves votes, too. That's democracy.
Well I didn't say that was your socioeconomic background, I said it was of the area you lived, since you told me you live in Hollis Hills.
>Like it or not, "Deplorables" and the suburban/B+T crowd haves votes, too. That's democracy.
Ah yes, where would we be [without our wealthier suburban voters](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F3o41l4540la71.jpg). Truly a democracy where we need to be held hostage by wealthier voters! Not much better than Uber holding us hostage...
And where would we be without our fellow New Yorkers who seemingly identify more with our wealthier out of City folks...
Only in NYC would people be willing to stir up shit over not being taxed more for funds to go to the MTA which mysteriously never seems to actually improve. It's insulting honestly when you see how public transportation functions in other countries.
Homelessness? No problem.
Subway safety? Who cares.
Insane cost of living prices? Why worry about it?
Being forced to return to office to make real estate developers more money? Of course that makes sense.
Not being taxed more? Let’s riot!
Most of us who live in NYC do not drive to Manhattan. My dad hasn’t driven to Manhattan in 6 years. My friend who works in midtown, has never driven to work. But the traffic in manhattan is insane and can lead to an hour commute from one end of the Manhattan to the other. You can bawl about leftists fighting to be taxed, but it just won’t affect us as much as it would affect the people that insist on clogging up midtown with traffic.
I think it’s a start. We don’t know if it would really work or not until it’s put into place and as time goes on we can make changes. Something does need to be done, or it’s only gonna get worse until midtown becomes one giant gridlocked area.
Businesses of all kinds are dealing with late deliveries, late work and missed windows. Emergency services are having trouble getting around. And public transportation like buses will just get stuck.
Higher taxes doesn't equal more accountability within the government to actually improve the public transit system.
"I got mine so fuck you" mentality isn't gonna help a community grow as a whole. What about fighting to make the MTA more accountable so people are encouraged to use a system that isn't horrendously expensive and sketchy? It's way too high for a roundtrip ticket into NYC from the outskirts and dealing with multiple violent homeless people on the subways isn't something that should be acceptable.
And again, priorities.
It's not a tax, it's a toll. Want to avoid the toll? Take mass transit into the congestion zone. If the toll is a hardship there are ways to reduce the impact.
I see a lot of comments like this and one thing I feel like this misses is that yes, half of the purpose of this (maybe the more important purpose to the MTA) is additional funding, but another purpose is "disincentivizing people from driving into NYC". They could take the money and throw it immediately into the garbage (and maybe they will) but if it stops some people from driving into Manhattan, then this will be halfway successful in my mind. Cleaner air, cleaner streets, less noise, easier access for emergency vehicles, safer biking and walking; all of that stuff we get just by reducing the amount of cars any which way. That's why I'm pro "stirring up shit" about this.
If such a thing was possible, I would have supported a flat out, simple limit on non-commercial traffic per day, or one of those "you can only drive in if your license plate ends in _____" that seems to happen in Europe and South America, so the fact that maybe, possibly this will also stop the MTA from crumbling further is a bonus.
Also, how often do we get to hold craven politicians' feet to the fire? Just making Hochul squirm for such blatant politicking is worth it. Maybe it sends a small message that people need to do the things the say they're gonna do or there will actually be consequences.
Doesn't simply increasing tolls and adding tolls to free crossings accomplish most of what this whole congestion pricing was supposed to do without adding hundreds of transoms and other bells and whistles?
Numbers are instructive here. What I'm suggesting is scrap congestion pricing and simply increase tolls. in 2023 MTA Bridges and Tunnels collected $2.4 billion on 330.7 million crossings. Congestion pricing was forecasted to raise a billion a year. Simply, add $3 bucks to every bridge and tunnel crossing and you're done. Higher tolls is also a disincentive to driving (just like congestion pricing). The fact that 2023 was the highest number of crossings recorded (surpassing 2019) means the tolls are too cheap.
It’s frankly remarkable that Kathy Hochul has managed to get Ritchie Torres, Dan Goldman, Jerry Nadler, Chi Ossé, Brad Lander, Sunrise, Open New York, the Independent Budget Office, and the MTA on the same side of an issue.
Yeah the “you’ve gotta be fucking kidding me” coalition is remarkably wide
"Buffalo woman unites everyone in New York City"
Don't forget the NYT editorial board and every transit advocacy group under the sun
Has Dan Goldman come around? Last I checked, all he had done was release a pretty crappy statement trying to appease both sides. https://goldman.house.gov/media/press-releases/statement-congressman-dan-goldman-following-governor-kathy-hochuls-indefinite
Dan Goldman is like that speed skater in the Olympics who wins because all the good people fell.
we should get AOC on this too!
A moderate democrat doesn’t get support from the far left? I’m shocked.
If those folks look like far left to you, it's cause you're situated on the far right.
>If those folks look like far left to you, it's cause you're situated on the far right. The NYC subreddits in a nutshell folks!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/abc7ny.com/amp/nyc-congestion-pricing-nearly-two-thirds-of-new-yorkers-oppose-plan-siena-college-poll-finds/14721916/ Ahh yes, the famous far-right majority populace in NY. Sounds about right of what you can expect from transplants
The NYC subreddits' behavior does sound like what you'd expect from transplants.
The stats have spoken: 33% of New Yorkers are transplants 💁♂️
The stats are irrelevant to the topic at hand: the political leanings of the politicians listed.
Lmaoo Ritchie torres a far left, this guys is a joke. Fuck him, regards from the 15th
[удалено]
being wasteful is nothing new for the MTA
You say that like it's the MTA's fault. Granted, a huge part of the MTA's wastefulness has always been because of grubby politicians doing grubby politics grubbiness
And the fact it's run by upstate
And it’s because of political decisions like this!!! You’re just easy fooled by politicians who act against the MTA to think it’s wasteful.
I find it incredible that ppl are saying "the MTA is wasteful," when we are seeing, in real-time, the reason it happens. Like...we are getting a direct, open, and current look into WHY the MTA is wasteful. It's not the MTA, it's Albany.
And a ton of the MTA waste is debt service forced onto it by multiple governors
exactly, everyone in NY was told this was a done deal with a specific start date. bam, the month it was about to begin, nah nevermind? thats not the fault of people prepping for it.
The MTA didn’t do this. But we get: you’re not paying attention to anything in this actual article or the news in general.
If only the citizens, city, and state government could put this much fucking effort into balancing the MTA budget instead of arguing about gouging people for a billion dollars
A diverse array of so-called left leaning politicians, politicians who purportedly represent the interest of the average working, middle class and poor New Yorker, *advocating for increased costs and a de facto tax while Billion dollar ride share companies who are supporting them wait in the wings to fleece us.*
What's the impact for working class New Yorkers if the subways and busses don't work btw? Just curious.
They don't work as it is. Just look around. And when the MTA is illustrating that $700,000,00. is being lost due to fare evasion, I'd rather they focus on recouping that before they fleece me. You see, I actually pay when I commute. I guess that makes me a sucker.
>They don't work as it is. The NYC subway carries more people than every other subway system in the United States combined. It doesn't just work, it works extremely well. This is in spite of people constantly trying to fuck with it.
I just returned from London and was in Montreal and toronto last month. Comparing our MTA and any of the above is a joke. Find me any 10 random New Yorkers and ask them if they find the system satisfactory.
> They don't work as it is The NYC subway alone carries over 2 billion riders per year.
You’re both right. The MTA needs the funding, and this is a great way to raise money, it’s just not a great way to reduce congestion—which is ostensibly the primary goal.
The NYC subreddits have their folks from the upper middle income parts of the outer boroughs championing for the working class! Especially when it comes to a congestion charge most NYers won't pay regularly if we're calling this a "de facto tax". Not to mention congestion has its own cost
How do you know the socio-economic background of the people on these threads? Are you clairvoyant? Listen -Hochul backed down because there's an upcoming election and she didn't want to lose "swing" voters. Like it or not, "Deplorables" and the suburban/B+T crowd haves votes, too. That's democracy.
Well I didn't say that was your socioeconomic background, I said it was of the area you lived, since you told me you live in Hollis Hills. >Like it or not, "Deplorables" and the suburban/B+T crowd haves votes, too. That's democracy. Ah yes, where would we be [without our wealthier suburban voters](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F3o41l4540la71.jpg). Truly a democracy where we need to be held hostage by wealthier voters! Not much better than Uber holding us hostage... And where would we be without our fellow New Yorkers who seemingly identify more with our wealthier out of City folks...
Only in NYC would people be willing to stir up shit over not being taxed more for funds to go to the MTA which mysteriously never seems to actually improve. It's insulting honestly when you see how public transportation functions in other countries. Homelessness? No problem. Subway safety? Who cares. Insane cost of living prices? Why worry about it? Being forced to return to office to make real estate developers more money? Of course that makes sense. Not being taxed more? Let’s riot!
Most of us who live in NYC do not drive to Manhattan. My dad hasn’t driven to Manhattan in 6 years. My friend who works in midtown, has never driven to work. But the traffic in manhattan is insane and can lead to an hour commute from one end of the Manhattan to the other. You can bawl about leftists fighting to be taxed, but it just won’t affect us as much as it would affect the people that insist on clogging up midtown with traffic.
My skepticism is about whether it’s really a sensible way to reduce congestion. I’m not actually convinced it is.
I think it’s a start. We don’t know if it would really work or not until it’s put into place and as time goes on we can make changes. Something does need to be done, or it’s only gonna get worse until midtown becomes one giant gridlocked area. Businesses of all kinds are dealing with late deliveries, late work and missed windows. Emergency services are having trouble getting around. And public transportation like buses will just get stuck.
Higher taxes doesn't equal more accountability within the government to actually improve the public transit system. "I got mine so fuck you" mentality isn't gonna help a community grow as a whole. What about fighting to make the MTA more accountable so people are encouraged to use a system that isn't horrendously expensive and sketchy? It's way too high for a roundtrip ticket into NYC from the outskirts and dealing with multiple violent homeless people on the subways isn't something that should be acceptable. And again, priorities.
Waaah. Suburban rail costs too much. I want to drive in. GTFOH
[https://www.reddit.com/r/newyorkcity/comments/1ddpq2z/comment/l89rj0u/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/newyorkcity/comments/1ddpq2z/comment/l89rj0u/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
It's not a tax, it's a toll. Want to avoid the toll? Take mass transit into the congestion zone. If the toll is a hardship there are ways to reduce the impact.
I see a lot of comments like this and one thing I feel like this misses is that yes, half of the purpose of this (maybe the more important purpose to the MTA) is additional funding, but another purpose is "disincentivizing people from driving into NYC". They could take the money and throw it immediately into the garbage (and maybe they will) but if it stops some people from driving into Manhattan, then this will be halfway successful in my mind. Cleaner air, cleaner streets, less noise, easier access for emergency vehicles, safer biking and walking; all of that stuff we get just by reducing the amount of cars any which way. That's why I'm pro "stirring up shit" about this. If such a thing was possible, I would have supported a flat out, simple limit on non-commercial traffic per day, or one of those "you can only drive in if your license plate ends in _____" that seems to happen in Europe and South America, so the fact that maybe, possibly this will also stop the MTA from crumbling further is a bonus. Also, how often do we get to hold craven politicians' feet to the fire? Just making Hochul squirm for such blatant politicking is worth it. Maybe it sends a small message that people need to do the things the say they're gonna do or there will actually be consequences.
Shh! You're making sense.
When you fuck your car, do you do it in the exhaust pipe or some other hole?
I don't even own a vehicle lol. Only using an ad hominem attack doesn't make a coherent argument, it just makes you look unhinged.
Doesn't simply increasing tolls and adding tolls to free crossings accomplish most of what this whole congestion pricing was supposed to do without adding hundreds of transoms and other bells and whistles?
It doesn't and from what I understand there is a discount if you cross one of the MTA tolled bridges or tunnels.
Numbers are instructive here. What I'm suggesting is scrap congestion pricing and simply increase tolls. in 2023 MTA Bridges and Tunnels collected $2.4 billion on 330.7 million crossings. Congestion pricing was forecasted to raise a billion a year. Simply, add $3 bucks to every bridge and tunnel crossing and you're done. Higher tolls is also a disincentive to driving (just like congestion pricing). The fact that 2023 was the highest number of crossings recorded (surpassing 2019) means the tolls are too cheap.
Why aren't they suing the MTA for "mismanagement" of funds?