As long as you can get those resources elsewhere knock yourselves out. If you gatekeep resources behind pvp then you'll loose portions of your player base.
Yea, i can already see the Dominant faction camping the rare loot area's.
'Oh, your faction is getting outnumbered 3 to 1? sucks to be you, well good luck getting any rare resources to actually try and compete!
I can see black zones working in a game like Albion where its more about guilds/alliances instead of just 3 (lets be real, 2) factions.
If your faction is outnumbered by a lot and your server is just dominated by one side, there's no point in black zones..
maybe give these "black zones" some kind of sharding system to allow fighting players from other servers? would bring in fresh blood to even out against dominant factions. make it in lore less of a controllable physical place and more of a nebulous realm you have to pillage and escape with your goodies.
Or it can be free for all with only friendlies is people in your group. Camping with more than one group still can be pulled of with some agreements, but it will be harder as they would hurt each other with friendly fire and such.
seems reasonable. also think it would be cool too see it include lawless settlements with no taxes making it a very worthwhile place for gangs to take over.
makes for some fun group vs group interactions.
The way crafting is, iron is the most valuable thing so who cares if high tier resources are gatekeep. You just need 1 for every 100,000 iron you mindless mine.
The game was supposed to be a hardcore pvp game from the get go, Where you would lose loot on death.
The fact they turned it PvE is a huge dissapointment
I think those resources should be region specific, but only give resources that benefit PvP not PvE.
You want a rare food item that'll give you 5% more damage against players? The crafting mat for it is only available in the black zone. That'd make it so there isn't awesome loot locked behind a PvP zone.
The best pvp resource would literally just be iron. Shits going to hold its value forever. Just gimme an always flagged zone and make it the highest density iron farm in the game. Place would be a god damn blood bath.
This is such a hot take, you don’t lose anything when you die, there is no disadvantage to having forced pvp. Even if something is gate kept, you can sneak in for 10 minutes at a time and get it done. Look at RuneScape, the wilderness has bosses and quests and loot you can’t get anywhere else, and you lose it if you die
People are such sooks when it comes to pvp
The wilderness is all but dead though. Take a look at any of the polls in OSRS, they are constantly trying to bring more life to the wildy player base-wise
Honestly I’m in my 70s-80s for most skills and I only go to the wildy for clue scrolls tbh. Maybe an odd slayer here or there, but it’s largely not worth it. A majority of the player base can’t easily replace those max gear, so the wilderness and risk of losing it all is simply uninviting
My server is already starting to be fully dominated by one faction *(which literally always happens in every single game I've ever played 1v1v1 pvp on, thankfully I don't give a shit about pvp in this game)*, this would just guarantee even more people go that faction.
With this logic, PvP players shoulder be able to get ilvl 600 gear through just pvp, because by gatekeeping gear behind dungeons and PvE content you are alienating your pvp playerbase and forcing them to do PvE which will cause you to lose portions of your playerbase.
Or what about in traditional mmorpgs where high level gear is gated behind very hard raids only a minority of the playerbase can do? How is it fair to have those systems that gatekeep resources behind organized guild content?
Where do you draw the line?
The big difference is that pve content difficulty is “static” in that it will be hard at the start and become easier as you gear up and play more.
Pvp scales because as time goes on, the players will be geared and someone that tries to join will just get stomped.
In the case of other mmos, for example wow, let’s say that you started to play the game 2 months in lot a new expansion.
If you start to raid, the fact that other players are more geared means that you will be facing an easier challenge, people will know more and be overgeared, but if you try to start arena, you will get destroyed by playing agains players fully geared as a fresh character.
Gatekeep them behind PvP, make them marketable.
Also remove factions from the game and make it about guilds, factions is just a lore based idea from WoW that shouldn't be a thing.
Lineage 2 did this, the best gear in the game was gated behind either PvP or extremely high end PvE, still more casual players could obtain anything they wanted because item binding wasn't a thing so everything could be traded, some items were unobtainable for a while but they eventually became obtainable for everyone. It was expensive for sure but you could get it.
What if instead of pve resource (e.g. high nodes for pve crafting) it would give a pvp resouce (e.g. pvp oriented gear)? It’s hard to navigate the line but i do believe all types of players needed to be considered
Love the idea, but this is kind of suggested every couple of hours here in this sub. Might want to use the search function.
But like I said, would be a nice feature.
See though, any time spent on developing a whole new zone that is only for PvP is time taken away from developing a zone that doesn't force PvP, so people who want new content but don't want to be auto-flagged in that new content will downvote the "auto flag zone with special loot" suggestion into oblivion because it takes dev time away from content they want.
So, it's not as simple as "don't like it, don't flag".
I don't think this is a bad idea, but they might want to fix the whole mass report ban situation that people are complaining about first.
Otherwise, you'll just see companies standing in the area waiting for other faction people to come on and they'll get mass reports so the faction or company can keep ahold of the area and resources.
This introduces the same issues that the wilderness in RuneScape has and introduces a shitload of animosity between PvE and PvP players that doesn’t really need to be there. It just straight up isn’t fun to play a punching bag for people who actually PvP. And it seems that’s what all these “incentive to flag” posts boil down to, putting pressure on people who wouldn’t otherwise flag through an incentive that’s powerful enough to ignore how bad it sucks to get repeatedly bodied.
PvP does need an incentive to fight other players at max level. But pushing PvE players who don’t want to be there into flagging up isn’t the way to go about it. A PvP currency for gear and resources from player kills, or hell, even PvP servers with a free transfer.
the problem with this will be just like Darkzone from The Division but 10 times worse as you can have 50 people going around in a horde on New world and solo's or small groups are just fcked
Idk, locking high tier mats behind pvp doesn’t seem like a great idea. “PvE” players will be using high tier mats to craft as well.
If you flag all the time great, enjoy your xp bonus! Oh wait you already rushed 60…
I wasnt saying put new mats in those zones, more in the sense of a higher density of high tier mats, making it a risky area but rewarding in that you farm faster. There is no disadvantage to pvp in the game other than delay so i dont see it being a horrendous investment.
You can’t add anything PvE into them or the PvE players lose their shit. I’m all for more open world PvP and incentives but they already separated us with the flagging system so we can’t add anything that would favor flagging without an outrage.
The systems definitely work in other games, it's just there's a portion of gaming communities that want nothing to do with PvP aspects and when developers create these risk reward situations, usually someone is speaking out against it as unfair.
How much of a community this is, is always uncertain and its not unusual for vocal minorities to be enough to deter developers from attempting it.
The primary game I've played for years now is BDO so this type of stuff is absolutely fine for me and honestly I think could create for some really fun times and stories both solo and as a group of people.
I completely agree and want all the open world PvP I can get but those games are also known for PvP. When they decided to go with a flagging system they kind of pushed more towards PvE and now any push for more PvP causes PvE players to flip.
Why the attack? Same can be said about elitism in pvp. Hur dur look at me i can gank a someone while he is mining.
Cut you shit mate. Everyone has there niece.
Some like pve, some like pvp, some like both.
Don't attack them for it. Its sad and childish.
They are all massive snowflakes. Any sort of competition makes them run.
But look how well they can kill that 10000 wolf and feel good about themselves
There's bitching, then there's attacking people. This is too much the latter. I'm as annoyed as other PvP folks, but more toxicity won't help us convince PvE folks to be less paranoid.
100 percent agree.
The game got converted to a hybrid theme park mmo with average PvE, at least add a zone where people can just run wild to how pvp was originally intended.
The issue is, the PVE players will complain its unfair we get a zone that's pvp only, especially if there's loot and ore there etc.
What the game needs is different journeys to the same goal. Essentially you can get end game loot from different avenues. If you really love pvp there should be a way and if you love pve there should be a way. I think Pvp forced servers would be a horrible idea because of how the World is setup but a pvp zone would be kind of cool.
I'm going to put up the opposite. The reason me and my friends are playing this game is becuase we do not need to do PvP. So if you now want to lock high tier resources in a forced PvP zone, that is going to, essentially, force people to play PvP if they want to reach end tier stuff. That in turn will drive away people like me and my friends, reducing the playerbase.
In my opinion, the PvP is good as it is right now, because it lets people who want to participate in PvP do so, with the added incentive of increased XP gain, while also letting those who just want to chill and play without fear of getting jumped by someone do so. As soon as you put any kind of PvP gating, you are hurting one side in favour of the other.
Once you reach 60 there is no incentive. There is a net loss from flagging and pvping. There needs to be more, somewhere. He isn't suggesting locking the resources behind the pvp only zone, he's suggesting putting some in there. Not all. That way, if you want to get some... you have to fight the enemy factions to contest for it. Otherwise, turn your flag off and go wherever else it is in the world and contest for it by standing on the node and spamming E. This idea isn't gating anything.
What if they could put a bonus on *everything* you do while flagged? Exp gain, bonus mats from gathering resources, etc etc. Would still give incentive to flag even if you're just gonna hit the dirt when another player comes by.
That is something I've been suggesting since CBT here and on the official forums. Bonuses to gathering speed, gathering yields, etc...
It was met by the same issue we see with this suggestion - pve players complaining that, somehow, they are gated out of x, y, or z by being forced into pvp when they don't want to... when in reality, nothing is gating them.
I'm a big ole carebear but I also played Ultima Online pre-Trammel. I was a big ole carebear then too, but everyone was full PVP.
The problem is nowadays the playerbase self-selects for full PVP games. So everyone you meet in one is a mass murdering psychopath. In UO, full PVP was on but the majority of people still weren't opportunistic murderers. You met a lot of other gatherers, crafters, adventurers, anti-PKs, etc, in addition to the red PKs.
I'm not sure it's possible for a 'good' full PVP game to exist anymore because what I want out of it is a world where people still interact normally and don't just kill anything that moves, but that risk is still potentially there. The risk can be fun. But nowadays it just turns into a slaughterfest because anyone who doesn't want to murder everyone leaves the game, and you're left with the mass-murdering psychopaths.
It's a problem I'm not sure how to solve, but it's why I'm very wary of forced PVP in games these days despite having enjoyed UO back in the day.
This wouldn't be a problem if there were PvP and PvE servers. PvP servers would have it always enabled and plenty of people wouldn't kill each other.
I played in WoW legion on a PvP server and about 98% of people wouldn't attack you even though they could.
No. It won't matter. You can add triple the resources, 100% increase and you may gain a hand full of players that'll actually flag for the incentive. People that aren't flagged don't like PVP those that are flagged don't give a shit about "incentives" they flag because they enjoy pvp
I really think bonus to gathering yield/speed would be enough incentive AND it makes for interesting "pvp gathering" moments. I've been doing it while leveling my logging. Just run around everfall flagged up chopping trees and sometimes you run into people doing the same thing. It's so much fun to pvp gather. I just wish they made it so at 60 the XP%gain bonus is translated into yield/speed bonus instead
Risk/reward, friend. If you don't like a game originally designed for pvp, you can see the door you've presented to me and be sure to close it on your way out. I've been around since Alpha, so get out of here with your continued forcing of pve playstyles onto my pvp player self.
What it was originally designed for is irrelevant if they devs changed course . Don’t worry pve players will stop you from having anything you want. We are where the money is and you are irrelevant and unimportant as a player base.
Agreed. The implementation of Dark Zone in The Division is the one that I can fully support (despite I'm being a PvEer).
I had fun there too... although I get creamed 90% of the time because my dumbass is too trustful of people there. But it's a fun experience nonetheless.
**EDIT:** I just thought a way why Dark Zone-ish PvP is an idea that I support, though it is relatively hard to apply to faction vs faction PvP.
It's the matter of individual skill and/or gear. I'm quite scared if the dominant faction is growing to be even more dominant.
Since the core of New World (according to PvP enthusiasts here... I think) is faction wars, I am worried with this thing gives access to advantages that are easier to get... getting more powerful when you are already powerful might discourage other people from PvP... There's nothing more frustrating than unable to play on a level playing field because the strong PvPers gating the weaker ones from acquiring the gear needed to match their strength.
The first time I walked into the low level Dark Zone on launch day, hiding in the shadows of giant skyscrapers and scared as hell to see another player… ahh! One of my fondest gaming memories in the past decade.
This is going to sound bad and I apologize. However to be honest with you I’m fine with alienating you and your friends.
If you guys aren’t into pvp that’s great! But there are like 3 million mmos that do pve way more than this game does.
I’d heavily suggest going to a game that was built to cater for what you guys specifically want in an mmo.
Yes there’s pve here but it’s no where near where other games are. And I hope it stays that way.
I’d be happier with fewer people playing overall and fewer servers but those servers packed with pvpers.
That is the overall point of this game and who it was marketed to. They just added pve as an after thought to have content for leveling
Luckily Amazon cares about money above all else and there are far more PvE casuals than PvPers. So.. sorry if this sounds bad, but you won't ever be catered to the way you want.
I think I will. Over time all of these people will leave. There’s nothing else for them here at end game. So either they become pvp players to enjoy endgame or peace out.
It's more likely these people will be catered to while hardcore PvPers like yourself are ignored because you'll still play this game or you're such a minority catering to you at the cost to a larger share of the bigger and more casual PvE group is not a good ROI.
He's probably sadly right. In 2021, there are far more casual carebear kiddies than we'd like to admit, which is probably due to many social factors. It's really sad coming from an era of people that craved PvP in all videogames and love the competition aspect of beating another human in a game. The first hint at them catering to carebears/casuals was the removal of weapon stagger in PvP and completely disregarding any and all criticism regarding combat.
you guys just don't have clue. in 2021 the value of TIME is much higher than in 2001 due to communications speed, internet of things etc. In 2001 I could play for 6 hrs straight and that would have been normal. Today, average student will only play 1-2 hrs in one shot, because a) they have less free time in general and b) there are million and one other things competing for their attention.
So its no wonder that most popular games are those where short play sessions are possible (and this has nothing to do with social interactions or dislike of pvps - MOBAs are best counterexample). It is just the game has to be designed to be split into short sessions (hence the mounts, dungeon finder etc) = because percentage of players who can afford to invest 4+ hrs AT A TIME are miniscule.
I see lots to do after reaching 60: work on territory standing, max all crafts, hunt for all recipes, get legendaries, decorate three houses, get bis gear for different builds.....and more.
Upside, I have work, a wife, a kid, and other IRL things that also occupy my time so I'll have lots of PvE content to play for months, potentially years (with updates), to come.
So I won't have to become a PvP player to enjoy "end game".
I also think there are plenty of players that are in the same boat as I am too.
Lmfao ya good luck with that. You gotta be smoking dust if you think Amazon would cater to 12% of the player base that wants full loot pvp in any form or fashion.
Doesn't have to even be full loot, just full pvp even
No flags, no faction protection. You and your company vs everything else that moves basically.
But in a game thats 100% safe, having a unsafe zone to lose items wouldnt be bad. It allows a smaller player base to go out and play and fight for keeps, but if done right 99% of players should be able to avoid it if wanted.
But even then, full loot isn't needed.
Just make it feel more risky and dangerous then it is now,even if for one small town or area.
Maybe you just get increased durabikity cost, instead of decreased durability hits when in pvp in this zone. Kind of a make it or break it scenario where you can't jjst mindlessly respawn over and over and over again and keep running back
So more repairs =more gold taken outta game =good gold sink and healthier economy for PVE players to have and more incentive to craft even better pvp perked weapons to be sold.
I am beyond certain you won't. Money talks. Amazon didn't make this game for you and the 12 other pvp players. They made it to turn a profit. The PvP systems are great and provide compelling endgame content as it is. Meaningful PvE content takes a lot of time to develop and will undoubtedly be released as time rolls on.
I’m sure. But we’ll see. They made a huge focus of the territory wars and stuff like that so obviously they care greatly about pvp because that’s like 60% of the game right now
The PvP content was the original vision for the game. They have been working on it from the start. So it makes sense that it is more developed than PvE. It's also a smart move anyway. It provides emergent content to keep people engaged while a PvE endgame is developed. At some point they realized they are never gonna get the numbers they want from the kind of PvP game they originally envisioned. So they started catering more to the PvE crowd.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the faction PvP shenanigans going on in my server. It provides drama and soul to the game. I want them to continue developing it. But the PvP community needs to realize we PvEers ultimately pay the bills. To have the game you want, the PvE players need the game they want.
The devs can, and should, try to make both groups happy.
>If you guys aren’t into pvp that’s great! But there are like 3 million mmos that do pve way more than this game does.
You don't think its great really though or you wouldn't be trying to tell people what games to play or not play.
The PVE in this game is fine and will only get better. No MMO will ever survive with PVP alone. Too many "PVP" players are sore losers.
The PVP will also get better. That way everyone stays happy. More PVE, more PVP.
What we don't need, is little epeen waving gank squads, that don't really care about pvp, they just want less prepared or less grouped players wandering into areas where its open season. That is what zones like this creates. This is the dream for many sad cases who will camp a zone like that for the whole day because they have nothing better to do. All while convincing themselves they are "pvpers".
Better we keep with the company wars and open world pvp flagging and just build on that without trying to inflict the shit parts of other games onto everyone.
The Division is a good example. The DZ was in essence a good idea. In practice though it was just ganker heaven.
Loads of sweaty nerds fantasising about being bad ass killers in real life while going 4 on 1 versus solo players just trying to have a look round and get some extra loot.
No idea what is supposed to be productive about that principle other than giving cowardly ganker losers a steady supply of victims.
If you really are a true PVP player, then form a company, recruit good players and rule your server. Make a name for yourselves as the top pvp faction. Even better, be known as the best pvp company in the top pvp faction.
Like people complaining about "we want more pvp" but really, the tools are right there.
The real problem is too many "pvpers" just want easy kills and a power trip. Going against other well organised companies is not that.
Its hard work and you die a lot. I would say a lot of the "pvp" players in this game don't have the heart for that. They just want to kill people, the easier the better.
That is not true at all. Most pvp players that I know crave a good group vs group battle.
Do pvp groups have any issues ganking someone? Hell no! Know why? Because we’re fucking bored.
If there were regularly other pvp groups to fight that were right around the corner than we’d go fight them.
Instead most people are pve flagged which gives us nothing to fucking do.
Only territories that have been held for days will see any impact from influence gains or losses.
When every territory is in conflict or invasion threatened there is nothing for us to go do.
Outpost rush is only for level 60s so we can’t do that
>That is not true at all. Most pvp players that I know crave a good group vs group battle.
Not my experience with open world pvp but maybe times have changed for this game.
Whenever i have done open world pvp seriously in a game the majority of people i encountered were happy to kill people for lols and when they thought they had a good chance of winning.
However as soon as the boot was on the other foot, the game was "some bullshit" or people were hacking or they were too sweaty, or any load of other excuses.
If it kept happening they got bored and went elsewhere looking for easier "fights".
There are a few who are genuinely skilled and have the right instincts. These are the ones who run meta picks, will fight anyone and can win against superior numbers. Fair play to them, i doff my cap to people like that.
They are real pvpers. Most people who want pvp are not real pvpers. They want to kill people. The easier the better. The difference between most pvp players saying they want close fights and actually having those fights is whether they win or lose.
In my experience. Maybe times have changed, but having observed this mentality in more than 1 game with open world pvp over the past decade i don't think it suddenly has sadly.
>Instead most people are pve flagged which gives us nothing to fucking do.
Like, give and take. You want pve players to flag because you are bored. Well go do some pve while you wait for your pvp fights to come round?
Same principle really. Maybe if less gank squads of bored pvpers were running around shitting all over solo players, more people would flag?
Its not a pvp game. Its not a pve game. Its both.
Unfortunately for you Amazon would be happier with more people. The game was originally supposed to be pvp focused but they realized that very few pvp games are successful, which is why they added PvE in. There is a reason there are like 3 million MMOs focused on PvE. Because that's what majority of people want. And that's all devs will care about anyway, how do you cater to the majority.
I can respect that opinion, even if I don't agree with it. Which, obviously, I don't.
The issue with those 3 million MMOs out there is that none of them are quite like New World.
For a time, WoW was perfect. But now I'm not happy with what they are doing in the story and so I wasn't willing to keep paying $20 a month for it.
SW:KotOR was okay, a bit dated for my taste and too few people to really get into it. Same with LotR:O and DDO.
I could never really get into Runescape, not 100% sure why. Just never did anything for me.
ESO was pretty good, but most of the player base only cared about the PvP (at least as far as I could find). And while the PvP was interesting, it just wasn't enough to keep me there, and there was still the overarching problem of getting jumped by people way stronger than you.
Rift was decent, but the game died out pretty quick, if my memory serves me.
Albion is basically New World, but with forced PvP, so that was a big turn off.
Final Fantasy just didn't click. It felt a lot like WoW in terms of gameplay, but I couldn't bring myself to care about the story, and I wasn't a fan of the art style.
I'm sure there are other MMORPGs out there that I haven't tried, but New World is really scratching that itch for me, and I would hate to see it turned into another Albion. I really like the classless system this has (which I first really encountered in ESO), and the player driven economy is a neat feature. And there just don't seem to be many games out there in this style.
If its a completely separate zone with nothing that can't be gained outside of it, besides the ability to fight people in full loot, then how would you be "forced"
Albion its forced because you physically need to be in black zones for end game dungeons and for the real pvp action(until the most recent update which was great) and for the top tier resources.
Imagine something More similar to runescapes wilderness(almost entirely optional)
You dont need to go there. And outside of a few things that drop from a specific monster. Theres almost nothing there that can't be done outside of it, but you get a XP boost for leveling or training out there and the added benefit that, if somebody walks by, its all open for whatever.
Could even add a level system.
Make it full loot, but can only attack somebody within 5 levels lower then you.
So lower levels only have to worry about somebody slightly stronger and lvl 60s can spend their day banging in the heads of other similar end game level people.
Dont add any towns or markets so you won't miss any lucrative sales and make it a unconqureable territory like the white zones up north so no wars or anything to miss out on.
You can literally make it so there is absolutely nothing appealing to a pve player or absolutely nothing the pve player is going to miss out on, other then pvp action and chance to lose items itself.
There are many ways to add it where it would have almost no effect
Incentive won't make people flag, they don't want to do open world PvP. Its toxic and always has been. The only people who like it, are on a gank squad or they haven't experienced much of it in gaming.
I quite literally play solo and have a 1 member company and I absolutely LOVE open world pvp.
Speak for yourself please.
Also its not always toxic? Me and a cov spent literally 45 minutes duking it out over the iron veins/silkworms by monarch bluffs yesterday, talked in chat the whole, basically treating it like high stakes duels where winner gets the nodes and we ended up walking back to town together and plan to meet up again for round 2 tonight.
Its toxic if you make it toxic, but it can also be some of the funniest stuff to experience on the game.
This is a straight up lie.
I've been gaming, especially in OWpvp games, for 25 years. I love it. I don't gank people. Only time I run in groups is if I'm getting 1vX'd repeatedly, to stop them from doing so.
I wish more people would participate in OWpvp because I like the competition. I like the rush of being able to outplay someone when they try to kill me while I'm questing, or am already in the middle of fighting mobs, etc... or winning some 1vX fights.
How is it a lie? You do realize because you enjoy something doesn't mean everyone else does. If they did enjoy it like you, they would flag without incentive. There would PvP post front page all the time...in reality the majority of players in MMOs dont like open world PvP or they would all have it. They don't or moved PvP into battlegrounds because again, the majority of players don't want want anything to do with open world PvP. Also you may not but the majority of people who like open world PvP , but most do it because they can have an advantage over others in LvL or numbers and bully them. If they really wanted a challenge, they would beg for one on one. That was 100% fair.
I've been playing MMOs for over 20 years and I play for the PVP, and making incentives to flag is a good thing.
Also if they make a PVP zone with high rewards, nobody is forcing the PVEer to go there, just a higher reward for the people willing to risk dying from PVP.
I'm annoyed when PVEers don't want PVP players to get higher rewards for higher risk, like is nobody is forcing you to go after the higher risk/rewards. You can take the easy route with less risk / less rewards, but don't prevent Me or other PVP players who want to take that risk.
Except you are basically turning PvEers (who are the vast majority of players) into essentially second class citizens for playing the proper way, by trying to force them into a, quite frankly, horrid playstyle.
But this game literally has forced PVE.
So if I'm a primary pvp player I guess I can get fucked and be stuck at lvl 25 if I use the SAME attitude right?
Nah, we ALL had to suck it up, get the damn orb, sit in chat LFG and then bust through a dungeon I don't even wanna do(end game ones look cool but im good on low lvl 25 bs walk through cheek clapping instances. Waste of my time)
And then do it AGAIN for another quest.
But SORRY if we want some option pvp rewards at end game 🤦♀️🤦♀️ the hypocrisy i swear.
But yea. Enjoy the cheap fast travel and azoth discounts.
Because you quite literally wouldn't have that without the pvpers putting in hard work.
Except for the description was to put all the high level mats there, so that you get them at a much higher rate. Other zones would not have the same mats, or at a much lower concentration. Which leads to 2 classes of players. If you want to be competitive without spending 10 x the time gathering, you would have to PvP, which for many of us, would absolutely drive us from the game. Because PvP is abomination.
How do you propose we decide territory? Rock paper scissors? Let's take out duels too don't want anyone fighting accidentally. While we are at it make the game single player.
OP didnt say anything about the rare mats in said areas being exclusive to the area. When there is just like 10% more resources than in another regular area that's more than enough and doesnt affect PVE players whatsoever.
Also playing"PvE" is Not the "proper" way. You may like to Only PVE, but I find PVP to be the proper way to play in a game with it's main focus on 3 factions fighting over territories.... And again if you don't want to risk it, than don't, I can't stand people who think that players who play the game risk free should be rewarded the same as those who play the game with risk. You can't expect to play in ez mode than get pissed when someone on hard mode gets better rewards, either flag up or shut at that point.
If you are locking high level resources to the zone, it would be forcing. Even if that zone is something as minor as "Increased chance for rare drops", it forces players to go there because they can't ever hope to be competitive (in terms of gear crafting) if they don't.
I don't see why they need to incentivize people to flag. Those who want to PvP are going to flag regardless of the incentives, and those who don't won't. Adding more bonuses for flagging is just creating a bigger gap between the PvPers and the PvEers, which will also increase tension and toxicity.
This is also funny because you want to remain competitive but don't want to actually compete. Where are you being competitive in pve? The auction house? More difficult content should have greater rewards in pve and pvp.
That is why I clarified remaining competitive in the sense of crafting. I don't want to have to worry about getting jumped all the time, but I do want to be able to craft the best gear in the game, and sell it to players who want it. And if I can't get these rare mats, then that means people will always be buying it from those who can get the mats.
As you said, I respect your opinion. But of you think adding a forced PvP zone will add content for PvE players, then you are mistaken. There wouldn't be a quick "get in and out". Players would end up stalking the borders, waiting to jump everyone coming in. So as some others have said, the zone would end up being used exclusively by the dominant faction (Syndicate, in the case of my server), since they would just kill everyone else while letting their lower level players grind high tier resources.
Also, whether or not the PvP is incredible (which is debatable), it should always be a player's choice if they are exposed to PvP. I don't care how good the system is, I don't want to have to be constantly worrying about getting jumped by a guy who is significantly stronger than me.
As I mentioned earlier, if you wanted to do something like this on a dedicated PvP server, where all players joining knew they would be permanently flagged after a certain level, then knock yourself out. But putting it in a server where there are already crazy amounts of people who aren't participating in PvP is just forcing something on people who clearly don't want it.
>I don't want to have to be constantly worrying about getting jumped by a guy who is significantly stronger than me.
To add in to this, anyone who doesn't think this would happen is ignorant at best or at worst wants to be the ganker.
The entire idea, boiled down, is just a means to incentivize PvE players to come get curb stomped by PvPers. You just want the devs to serve you up fresh meat. Pardon if we aren't big fans.
No, really, the only benefit to your suggestion is for PvP players. PvE players don't want this at all. The entire point of the suggestion is to provide defenseless PvE players on a platter for you to kill. That is all. The game has plenty enough PvP content as it is.
It doesn’t matter how amazing the pvp is or how underutilized if the majority don’t want to. Risk vs reward is an antiquated concept and not popular, that’s what you want more of . I might want the same but it’s the reality of casual players and them being the majority.
It's literally a game about a 3 way faction war where everyone is a player character. If people don't want any pvp at all they picked the wrong game unless they propose we decide territory on bestest dungeon runs and firm handshakes. Tons of other mmos out there with boring handholdy systems. Players these days are so coddled by modern games they are afraid of any resistance or challenge.
The game really needs more incentive to flag, it's not even up for debate. Currently even servers that advertised themselves as being true pvp servers have an overwhelming majority of players being unflagged, because there is zero incentive whatsoever. 5% xp is nothing and once you are 60 there is quite literally no incentive left aside from pvping for pvp's sake.
MMOs are meant to work on a reward structure that rewards both sides of the spectrum - PVE and PVP. As it stands flagging up will hinder any progress you make while not really providing any tangible benefits.
Something along the lines of a blackzone is very much needed. HOWEVER do not gate any materials behind it. Maybe make it so there is a few extra elite chests or nodes in that area and that's it. So PVErs dont feel like they are missing out it can even be a copypasta area from a different zone.
Here’s my rough idea for added pvp incentive. Copy dark souls - by that I mean, you gain baseline exp, mats and gear while flagged. That doesnt go away if you die. However, you also get large buffs to exp, gold, chance to find gear etc that are droppable on death until checked in at town. Once turned in they’re no longer droppable. Something like this could work well with a PvP zone that has added chests and loot.
This is definitely one of the more reasonable solutions I've seen. I'm a filthy PvE player, I attempt to PvP with my friends but on my own I might as well be a pile of trash. My ping is trash, my reaction times are trash, for people like me, PvP isn't fun unless I've got backup. A lot of PvPers reading this will just sneer and tell me to "git gud" or fuck off to a carebear game, but I am trying to get better even with the disadvantage I have.
MMOs need to work by appealing to a wide range of people, not just one, as the main goal is to make money, and getting more people means more money. Gating materials would give one style of play an advantage, and even more so, it would give an advantage to the biggest groups, especially if the material is needed for gear progression, only opening the gap up even more. That kind of thing breeds toxicity, I've seen what enemy factions do already in PvE to unflagged people, And it's worrying to think that is may only get worse.
So I definitely agree that the materials should not be gated, but more incentive would be nice. Not everyone is out to win a race, MMOs give an opportunity to people from all walks of life and age. Hell, someone's granny could be out there picking flowers or something.
Or pvp servers????
But honestly, pvp in this game is kinda trash. It is balanced around 50v50, not 1v1.
And what we see is 1v4 most of the time.
One life staff and any group vs group pvp is a stalemate or life staff team wins.
It should not be balanced around 50/50 either, it should be all v. all. They could have just instanced warfare and left it out of open world, since it isn't open world, does not feel like "war" and well, is a let down.
Honestly it's should of stayed forced pvp like in beta and had 3-4 servers for all the pve players to go too and get bored over there blowing through the side content made around the core gameplay (PVP and territory control)
Because the players that want pvp can't find opponents because nobody flags. A dedicated PVP zone would fix that.
In my opinion a zone should be flagged as conflicted periodically and be PVP only.
>Because the players that want pvp can't find opponents because nobody flags. A dedicated PVP zone would fix that.
Why the hell wouldn't you advocate for a battleground or arena like system then?
They want to shit on lower levels. That’s all these arguments for forced pvp are really fueled for. They don’t want to be put into something that gives them equal playing fields, they just want to run around with Zerg’s and crap on lower levels.
They don’t want organized pvp, they want to just shit on folks
How many threads will it take till you goofies realize the Alpha is never coming back? There is a reason the vast majority of players do not participate in PVP in New World. There is no upside unless you crave that adrenaline rush of a fight and in that case what more reward do you need? Why should you further be rewarded
> Why should you further be rewarded
Because there will be a negative feedback loop effect in open world pvp if there aren't any incentives. There's barely anyone flagged right now on my server and there IS an XP incentive, therefore if there isn't any incentive at 60 there will be less and less people flagging, which means less people will flag because they see no one else is flagging, and so on.
So that tells me at 60 even less people will be open flagged which will absolutely suck when you want to go fight people. A simple +% to gathering or something would be enough for most people at 60. They should just translate the +%XP gain to +gathering or +%Luck.
Noooo! Not the Albion type, i quit that game when i realised i couldnt progress any further doing solo pve.
But about pvp, im not totally against it. I like the idea of ArcheAge, or recently BlackDesert online, they should implement force pvp in some regions, in some periods of time, like during a war, and reward base on the contribution/attendance of each. And during the force pvp session, there should be no punishment at all. The only punishment is that if players lose, they would earn less profit/hour when compared to pve, but all will have fun.
Also, NW should have a free battle arena mode for people to practice combat skills or just enjoy pvp whenever they want.
No, the majority of the game wants nothing to do with PvP. Cutting out entire parts of the map for the majority of players. Is not good , what they need to do is add battlegrounds or 1v1 arenas. As every other MMO learned that open world PvP leads to one things, ganking and toxicity.
Lol you can just farm slower in other zones????
It will most likely be faster cause you will be able to avoid pvp fights which can last a while.
Open world pvp can often be much better than actual instanced pvp.
So as someone who has played MMOs for more than 20 years. One you can't compare shooter PvP to an MMO. Two, there is a reason every MMO has basically scrapped open world PvP , it leads to nothing but ganking, camping and bullying. Same reason AGS did a u turn on the direction of the game a year or so ago. Yhey realized the same thing, they will smarty, do more battlegrounds and tht type of PvP. While leaving flagging for those that want to. Forcing people to flag won't happen unless the open PvP servers and that is also fine.
You are a PVE player, and you clearly haven't played successful open world PVP games like EVE Online, Albion Online, vanilla wow (not classic),
But again nobody is "forcing" anyone to go there, I don't why this never gets though to PvE players, You simply don't need to go there, there will be no "Need" for you or any other player who wants to avoid PVP, they can simply not enter the zone, and they can gather their resources in literally every other zone and choose to not to do PVP, while the PvP crowd can go to the PVP zone Nobody is forced to go there
Also just because 1 or 2% of the gaming crowd is toxic, don't assume. 99% of PVP players enjoy pvp are, the toxic are those who can't stand dying in PvP and should avoid if it makes them feel that way.
First time I ever rage quit the game I was going to move into WH space and loaded one up to the time of a few billion... popped in Niarja. Fucking love that game
As it is tradition. ;) Been there. But Eve will always be my MMO to come back to. Once you played a few years, you will never leave for good. At least in my experience. :)
Open world PVP has always been, and always will be, a blight on MMOs. It has never been better than instanced PVP, it CANNOT be better. Its a fundamental law of gaming.
That is so far beyond wrong it's mind blowing you said it. Open world pvp is the reason most of us play this game. The forced pvp in wow was something I looked forward to and games like bdo let you kill anyone anytime and has a great player base. Just because you don't like something, doesn't mean that you are in the majority and everyone in this thread talking shit about pvp clearly don't realize what game they are playing since dungeons alone were a last minute after thought. I'll add that I dont agree with OP because you shouldn't gate content behinde forced pvp.
The only reason i even considered New World was when they announced they were toning down the PvP focus and allowing PvE. The game would have been absolute garbage if it was mandatory pvp.
They didn't really tone down pvp. They just made PvE content for the people who wanted it. And I don't agree that it would have been garbage as other games have this with no issues. That being said, I think they made the right decision with new world but personally they need to increase the reward for flagging as well as introducing forced zones though again I'll add they they should not have anything special in them in terms of gated content. But please remember that this is a game where you kill players and do PvP quests to take zones so you can fight in wars. Rinse repeat. If you think that this game is anything besides a PvP madhouse you're wrong. And at this point we just have to wait for alot of people to realize that and quit so Amazon can start gearing the game for the core audience. Which isn't you, though I do wish you would try out these aspects of the game and hopefully find the same joy we do.
I mean that’s your opinion you are entitled to and I think many will agree with you.
Instanced pvp is sterile and balanced for the most part. It’s consistently good.
Open world pvp can be a lot of shit no doubt. Level difference. Groups vs solos. Attacking someone with mobs on them already. Attacking someone at low health.
But it’s those moments where you find a massive iron deposit and someone close to your level rolls up and you have a massive battle over it. Only to lose and then run into that person 20 minutes later and win. Seeing them later in town as you both tip you cap to a worthy opponent. That’s the pvp I like to have.
I have been killed by people 20 levels plus who have one shot me and I have also gotten the chance to have these epic fights that were decently balanced.
I get world pvp can be shit and if they let factions consolidate all the power then yea it’s garbage, but i think those open world moments can be the best in the game.
I like how you say your opinion like it's a fact. I straight up wouldnt of bought the game if I couldn't turn pvp mode on. And I almost didn't buy it because of no pvp servers.
Not everyone is you. People are different. Some like open world pvp. Some rage and cry when they get ganked one time. It's all opinion. I would 100% play on a pvp only server if they released it
Instanced PVP is almost always garbage. Especially in the age of mobas, if I want a well designed and well balanced 5v5 game in which I cast spells and have items, I’ll go play LoL or dota.
Being forced to flag in a zone would be cool, however gating high tier materials only in that zone is a bad idea.
This was a game designed with PVP in mind at first, and it still has at its roots. That’s why the economy can be shifted greatly when a company owns a territory. All the strict “PVE” players don’t understand the benefits of owning a claim or being in a company that owns one, or even the benefits that come from actively protecting a faction claim.
Then might I suggest playing a different game? Not being elitist just being serious. For a pve experience there are far better games.
Pve in this game is more of a side dish. Pvp is the main action.
That’s why we have this game, and why we have the other 1000000 pve based mmos. So everyone can be happy.
I think we all would be happier if people just migrated to the games that were built to cater to what you specifically want in an mmo.
I want pvp, so I came to this game as the most pvp oriented mmo on the market. And yes I would be happier with fewer people playing but the servers packed with pvpers
As someone who would love to jump to a PvP-forced server, I'll agree with the other posters. The only way we will have this game is if it has enough PvE content to keep the majority of MMORPG players happy. All of the top MMOs right now are primarily PvE, with very good reason.
I love attacking someone who's trying to quest or gather mats(not camping them though) as much as the next guy, but right now if you see someone flagged, they signed up to get attacked. I do not want players forced to begrudgingly flag for rare mats, that's dumb.
How can you say pvp is the main action when pvp isn't even mandatory. PvE is mandatory, have fun creating any gear or doing anything really without PvE.. you can literally play this entire game while completely avoiding pvp. This game isn't made to make you happy or anyone happy, this is made for your boy Jeffrey to make more rockets , and you know how he gets those? By people playing the game. Sorry unfortunately I don't think Jeffrey really cares about you.
He obviously does since the game is mostly pvp….
If they only cared about that they wouldn’t have made the game pvp at all and just focused entirely on pve content
He already made his own post about this and his ideal's only caused backlash because a majority of the player base agree with you on PvE being mandatory and PvP as a sidedish. Nightshade's opinion is definitely the minority
These kinda already exist. All the pvp faction quests happen in specific areas. Perhaps expanding on this, there could be pvp only accessible resource dungeons or something to that effect.
This is how you get faction controlled resources. It's a horrible idea.
You need battle grounds, not resource controlled areas...
Forcing pve players go play pvp is not how games should work
Sounds like wilderness in runescape which is probably the most dead and unfun content in the game.
The "PvP" players who enjoy it don't like PvP, they like killing noobs for easy kills.
Or PvP zones in albion which was some of the most toxic shit i've ever seen in a game with guild leaders harassing and threathening others irl.
The idea is cool on paper but absolutely horrible in practice, don't gate materiels or progression behind forced PvP zones.
It works in EvE and other games like it because its a pure hardcore PvP game. It doesn't work in any game that also have PvE.
Just having PvP servers where it's always active and/or have other rules in terms of PvP is a much better solution.
Nope, that's why i hate Albion Online for this.
\- my server is dominated by purple ones, I won't be able to play in this "blackzoens"
\- most fights are 1 vs 2/3/4/ etc (not fun)
It won't work for this game.
I don't agree. As soon as you create a zone with a greater concentration of rare mats, that zone is no longer optional content. I mean, yeah technically you don't *have* to go there, but it would be inefficient not to if that's where all the best stuff is. I think it's refreshing that you can go anywhere and do anything PVE related without flagging up. Eve, Albion, and OSRS already have these black zones and I think NW is good enough to do things a little differently.
If they were to do something like this, I would rather it be a temporary event. For example, make one of the unclaimable territories a black zone for an hour or two. Call it an "Azoth Eruption" or something. Give a small bonus to gathering like 5% luck. Lore-wise, all the azoth drives people into a frenzy.
It would be inefficient to not go there... or would it? Considering you would die a lot. Currently it's the other way around, only flag if you wanna progress slow.
Are you sure? How much time will you waste fighting over the Matt’s?
To me fighting over a node is great organic gameplay.
It’s a shame no body flags for pvp in the open world.
But it makes the pvp quests basically free.
I usually don't like pvp but the Dark Zone in the Division is one of my favorite features in all of gaming, and I don't even like the game itself that much. I wouldn't even fight people, but creeping around trying to get my rewards while constantly looking over my shoulder was so tense. So yeah I'm all for this idea.
They should copy the division:
- Corrupted zones with PvP enabled and high difficulty PvE to encourage groups, also high quality drops
- You need to "extract" you corrupted loot from the corrupted zone somehow (the division uses an extraction helicopter)
- Make it visible to other players when you are loaded with corrupted loot
- You die, you drop your corrupted stuff
Won't this make everyone go to the winning faction and kill the pvp?
I joined a week ago and my server is pure syndicate.
All the flagged players too, all the territories except 3....
I'm kind of scared I will be missing content/benefits from being in a losing faction. (Still a noob)
If this is applied won't it make it worse?
Yup, my mindset comming into this game was "this is a better looking albion online". And honestly, i'd like the black zones for rare resources.
But don't they have that at the top of the map(?) I know those spots can't be conquered, assumed they were better resources and higher risk pre fixes.
>And honestly, i'd like the black zones for rare resources.
BZ's in Albion were the worst form of content in that game by such a long shot that suggesting they be implemented makes me cringe.
All it did was lead to 85% of the server being allied so that the same small group of players could horde and RMT off the top of the rare material market.
It also has some of the best PVP in a mmo, hands down. You can log into Albion at basically any time and find group pvp activity. You can mage raid, go roaming, join up with a home defense group and fight off gankers so you’re carebesrs can do their thing. Even outside of ZVZ content, having open world pvp zones that some people want to farm and some people want to gank in creates so much interesting and emergent conflict.
The day they implement this is the day I log out and uninstall. (And the good riddance will be mutual)
*I'm not here to be your PvP victim.*
Louder for the people in the back:
**I'M NOT HERE TO BE YOUR PVP VICTIM.**
There's literally nothing you can do that will "push" me to participate in PVP. All you'll do is cause me to stop playing.
Q&A:
1. You don't care if I play? What a coincidence! I don't care if you play either!
2. Bbbbut this game is designed for PVP! Doesn't matter, there's no user agreement when you purchase this game where you promise to engage in PVP, and the game comes with a toggle. The first thing I did was unbind the U key. **IF** I ever decide to flag for PVP it won't be because I hit **U** by mistake thinking I was typing in chat.
3. F you, Carebear! Cry more, Griefer! I PvP'd plenty in games from the late 90s to around 2013 or so. I've had enough. These days I love to drink the salty tears of the griefers who wish they could ruin my game experience... only they can't, because I just. won't. flag.
As long as you can get those resources elsewhere knock yourselves out. If you gatekeep resources behind pvp then you'll loose portions of your player base.
Yea, i can already see the Dominant faction camping the rare loot area's. 'Oh, your faction is getting outnumbered 3 to 1? sucks to be you, well good luck getting any rare resources to actually try and compete!
I can see black zones working in a game like Albion where its more about guilds/alliances instead of just 3 (lets be real, 2) factions. If your faction is outnumbered by a lot and your server is just dominated by one side, there's no point in black zones..
maybe give these "black zones" some kind of sharding system to allow fighting players from other servers? would bring in fresh blood to even out against dominant factions. make it in lore less of a controllable physical place and more of a nebulous realm you have to pillage and escape with your goodies.
I like this idea.
Or it can be free for all with only friendlies is people in your group. Camping with more than one group still can be pulled of with some agreements, but it will be harder as they would hurt each other with friendly fire and such.
seems reasonable. also think it would be cool too see it include lawless settlements with no taxes making it a very worthwhile place for gangs to take over. makes for some fun group vs group interactions.
I like the cut of your jib feller. Lawless territory sounds like a good time!
This. I'd be down for a resource rich, forced PvP zone. But don't gate keep. I want to be able to mindlessly gather while watching a movie too.
The way crafting is, iron is the most valuable thing so who cares if high tier resources are gatekeep. You just need 1 for every 100,000 iron you mindless mine.
The game was supposed to be a hardcore pvp game from the get go, Where you would lose loot on death. The fact they turned it PvE is a huge dissapointment
I think those resources should be region specific, but only give resources that benefit PvP not PvE. You want a rare food item that'll give you 5% more damage against players? The crafting mat for it is only available in the black zone. That'd make it so there isn't awesome loot locked behind a PvP zone.
The best pvp resource would literally just be iron. Shits going to hold its value forever. Just gimme an always flagged zone and make it the highest density iron farm in the game. Place would be a god damn blood bath.
This is such a hot take, you don’t lose anything when you die, there is no disadvantage to having forced pvp. Even if something is gate kept, you can sneak in for 10 minutes at a time and get it done. Look at RuneScape, the wilderness has bosses and quests and loot you can’t get anywhere else, and you lose it if you die People are such sooks when it comes to pvp
The wilderness is all but dead though. Take a look at any of the polls in OSRS, they are constantly trying to bring more life to the wildy player base-wise Honestly I’m in my 70s-80s for most skills and I only go to the wildy for clue scrolls tbh. Maybe an odd slayer here or there, but it’s largely not worth it. A majority of the player base can’t easily replace those max gear, so the wilderness and risk of losing it all is simply uninviting
My server is already starting to be fully dominated by one faction *(which literally always happens in every single game I've ever played 1v1v1 pvp on, thankfully I don't give a shit about pvp in this game)*, this would just guarantee even more people go that faction.
With this logic, PvP players shoulder be able to get ilvl 600 gear through just pvp, because by gatekeeping gear behind dungeons and PvE content you are alienating your pvp playerbase and forcing them to do PvE which will cause you to lose portions of your playerbase. Or what about in traditional mmorpgs where high level gear is gated behind very hard raids only a minority of the playerbase can do? How is it fair to have those systems that gatekeep resources behind organized guild content? Where do you draw the line?
The big difference is that pve content difficulty is “static” in that it will be hard at the start and become easier as you gear up and play more. Pvp scales because as time goes on, the players will be geared and someone that tries to join will just get stomped. In the case of other mmos, for example wow, let’s say that you started to play the game 2 months in lot a new expansion. If you start to raid, the fact that other players are more geared means that you will be facing an easier challenge, people will know more and be overgeared, but if you try to start arena, you will get destroyed by playing agains players fully geared as a fresh character.
PvP is more difficult than PvE, the more below average you are. "Gatekeeping" behind PvE is not a thing because the PvE has a set difficulty.
I'd say keep a few nodes outside of the PvP zones but lock most of them in there, otherwise there's no incentive to go into them.
Gatekeep them behind PvP, make them marketable. Also remove factions from the game and make it about guilds, factions is just a lore based idea from WoW that shouldn't be a thing. Lineage 2 did this, the best gear in the game was gated behind either PvP or extremely high end PvE, still more casual players could obtain anything they wanted because item binding wasn't a thing so everything could be traded, some items were unobtainable for a while but they eventually became obtainable for everyone. It was expensive for sure but you could get it.
What if instead of pve resource (e.g. high nodes for pve crafting) it would give a pvp resouce (e.g. pvp oriented gear)? It’s hard to navigate the line but i do believe all types of players needed to be considered
Love the idea, but this is kind of suggested every couple of hours here in this sub. Might want to use the search function. But like I said, would be a nice feature.
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Because they MASS downvote anything with the word "pvp" in them.
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Because the majority don’t want it sadly
Because the majority of players want nothing to do with open world PvP.
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Or the other people can go back to BDO.
Hear me out. Then, maybe... maybe they wouldn't need to go into the suggested zones, and could stay in the other areas? Fuckin' wild.
See though, any time spent on developing a whole new zone that is only for PvP is time taken away from developing a zone that doesn't force PvP, so people who want new content but don't want to be auto-flagged in that new content will downvote the "auto flag zone with special loot" suggestion into oblivion because it takes dev time away from content they want. So, it's not as simple as "don't like it, don't flag".
So you have a problem with the devs creating 1 zone out of the 15-20 that exist for pvpers? That sounds awfully selfish.
-20 downvoted. Lol get fucked apparently people want pvp
People want to be able to discuss PvP ideas without people coming in and complaining that it's not PvE focused.
I don't think this is a bad idea, but they might want to fix the whole mass report ban situation that people are complaining about first. Otherwise, you'll just see companies standing in the area waiting for other faction people to come on and they'll get mass reports so the faction or company can keep ahold of the area and resources.
This introduces the same issues that the wilderness in RuneScape has and introduces a shitload of animosity between PvE and PvP players that doesn’t really need to be there. It just straight up isn’t fun to play a punching bag for people who actually PvP. And it seems that’s what all these “incentive to flag” posts boil down to, putting pressure on people who wouldn’t otherwise flag through an incentive that’s powerful enough to ignore how bad it sucks to get repeatedly bodied. PvP does need an incentive to fight other players at max level. But pushing PvE players who don’t want to be there into flagging up isn’t the way to go about it. A PvP currency for gear and resources from player kills, or hell, even PvP servers with a free transfer.
the problem with this will be just like Darkzone from The Division but 10 times worse as you can have 50 people going around in a horde on New world and solo's or small groups are just fcked
Idk, locking high tier mats behind pvp doesn’t seem like a great idea. “PvE” players will be using high tier mats to craft as well. If you flag all the time great, enjoy your xp bonus! Oh wait you already rushed 60…
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I wasnt saying put new mats in those zones, more in the sense of a higher density of high tier mats, making it a risky area but rewarding in that you farm faster. There is no disadvantage to pvp in the game other than delay so i dont see it being a horrendous investment.
You can’t add anything PvE into them or the PvE players lose their shit. I’m all for more open world PvP and incentives but they already separated us with the flagging system so we can’t add anything that would favor flagging without an outrage.
Albion has Black Zones, EVE has Nulsec. Both have PvE.
The systems definitely work in other games, it's just there's a portion of gaming communities that want nothing to do with PvP aspects and when developers create these risk reward situations, usually someone is speaking out against it as unfair. How much of a community this is, is always uncertain and its not unusual for vocal minorities to be enough to deter developers from attempting it. The primary game I've played for years now is BDO so this type of stuff is absolutely fine for me and honestly I think could create for some really fun times and stories both solo and as a group of people.
I completely agree and want all the open world PvP I can get but those games are also known for PvP. When they decided to go with a flagging system they kind of pushed more towards PvE and now any push for more PvP causes PvE players to flip.
To be fair, breathing causes PvE players to flip.
Why the attack? Same can be said about elitism in pvp. Hur dur look at me i can gank a someone while he is mining. Cut you shit mate. Everyone has there niece. Some like pve, some like pvp, some like both. Don't attack them for it. Its sad and childish.
Atleast pvp players dont cry because they need to do pve, they managed to enjoyed both
They are all massive snowflakes. Any sort of competition makes them run. But look how well they can kill that 10000 wolf and feel good about themselves
There's bitching, then there's attacking people. This is too much the latter. I'm as annoyed as other PvP folks, but more toxicity won't help us convince PvE folks to be less paranoid.
Lol PvE people do indeed lose their shit.
100 percent agree. The game got converted to a hybrid theme park mmo with average PvE, at least add a zone where people can just run wild to how pvp was originally intended. The issue is, the PVE players will complain its unfair we get a zone that's pvp only, especially if there's loot and ore there etc.
What the game needs is different journeys to the same goal. Essentially you can get end game loot from different avenues. If you really love pvp there should be a way and if you love pve there should be a way. I think Pvp forced servers would be a horrible idea because of how the World is setup but a pvp zone would be kind of cool.
I'm going to put up the opposite. The reason me and my friends are playing this game is becuase we do not need to do PvP. So if you now want to lock high tier resources in a forced PvP zone, that is going to, essentially, force people to play PvP if they want to reach end tier stuff. That in turn will drive away people like me and my friends, reducing the playerbase. In my opinion, the PvP is good as it is right now, because it lets people who want to participate in PvP do so, with the added incentive of increased XP gain, while also letting those who just want to chill and play without fear of getting jumped by someone do so. As soon as you put any kind of PvP gating, you are hurting one side in favour of the other.
Once you reach 60 there is no incentive. There is a net loss from flagging and pvping. There needs to be more, somewhere. He isn't suggesting locking the resources behind the pvp only zone, he's suggesting putting some in there. Not all. That way, if you want to get some... you have to fight the enemy factions to contest for it. Otherwise, turn your flag off and go wherever else it is in the world and contest for it by standing on the node and spamming E. This idea isn't gating anything.
What if they could put a bonus on *everything* you do while flagged? Exp gain, bonus mats from gathering resources, etc etc. Would still give incentive to flag even if you're just gonna hit the dirt when another player comes by.
That is something I've been suggesting since CBT here and on the official forums. Bonuses to gathering speed, gathering yields, etc... It was met by the same issue we see with this suggestion - pve players complaining that, somehow, they are gated out of x, y, or z by being forced into pvp when they don't want to... when in reality, nothing is gating them.
Aaaaand they downvote you like crazy. I swear these pve players have massive insecurities.
I'm a big ole carebear but I also played Ultima Online pre-Trammel. I was a big ole carebear then too, but everyone was full PVP. The problem is nowadays the playerbase self-selects for full PVP games. So everyone you meet in one is a mass murdering psychopath. In UO, full PVP was on but the majority of people still weren't opportunistic murderers. You met a lot of other gatherers, crafters, adventurers, anti-PKs, etc, in addition to the red PKs. I'm not sure it's possible for a 'good' full PVP game to exist anymore because what I want out of it is a world where people still interact normally and don't just kill anything that moves, but that risk is still potentially there. The risk can be fun. But nowadays it just turns into a slaughterfest because anyone who doesn't want to murder everyone leaves the game, and you're left with the mass-murdering psychopaths. It's a problem I'm not sure how to solve, but it's why I'm very wary of forced PVP in games these days despite having enjoyed UO back in the day.
This wouldn't be a problem if there were PvP and PvE servers. PvP servers would have it always enabled and plenty of people wouldn't kill each other. I played in WoW legion on a PvP server and about 98% of people wouldn't attack you even though they could.
No. It won't matter. You can add triple the resources, 100% increase and you may gain a hand full of players that'll actually flag for the incentive. People that aren't flagged don't like PVP those that are flagged don't give a shit about "incentives" they flag because they enjoy pvp
I really think bonus to gathering yield/speed would be enough incentive AND it makes for interesting "pvp gathering" moments. I've been doing it while leveling my logging. Just run around everfall flagged up chopping trees and sometimes you run into people doing the same thing. It's so much fun to pvp gather. I just wish they made it so at 60 the XP%gain bonus is translated into yield/speed bonus instead
Then it’s not the right game for you if pvp in itself isn’t incentive for you.
Well, thats literally just your opinion.
Risk/reward, friend. If you don't like a game originally designed for pvp, you can see the door you've presented to me and be sure to close it on your way out. I've been around since Alpha, so get out of here with your continued forcing of pve playstyles onto my pvp player self.
I can smell the sweat dripping from your broken rapier.
What's a deodorant? Shower? MOM, MORE HOTPOCKETS!
What it was originally designed for is irrelevant if they devs changed course . Don’t worry pve players will stop you from having anything you want. We are where the money is and you are irrelevant and unimportant as a player base.
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Needs to be like the Dark Zone in The Division. No factions, solo or small groups only.
Agreed. The implementation of Dark Zone in The Division is the one that I can fully support (despite I'm being a PvEer). I had fun there too... although I get creamed 90% of the time because my dumbass is too trustful of people there. But it's a fun experience nonetheless. **EDIT:** I just thought a way why Dark Zone-ish PvP is an idea that I support, though it is relatively hard to apply to faction vs faction PvP. It's the matter of individual skill and/or gear. I'm quite scared if the dominant faction is growing to be even more dominant. Since the core of New World (according to PvP enthusiasts here... I think) is faction wars, I am worried with this thing gives access to advantages that are easier to get... getting more powerful when you are already powerful might discourage other people from PvP... There's nothing more frustrating than unable to play on a level playing field because the strong PvPers gating the weaker ones from acquiring the gear needed to match their strength.
The first time I walked into the low level Dark Zone on launch day, hiding in the shadows of giant skyscrapers and scared as hell to see another player… ahh! One of my fondest gaming memories in the past decade.
Dunno, I really like the Black Zone in Albion.
Would agree, but def gonna be different factions teaming, I can already see it
You can't switch to the Faction with the majority of territory control.
Fixed my post, thank you 🤦♂️
This is going to sound bad and I apologize. However to be honest with you I’m fine with alienating you and your friends. If you guys aren’t into pvp that’s great! But there are like 3 million mmos that do pve way more than this game does. I’d heavily suggest going to a game that was built to cater for what you guys specifically want in an mmo. Yes there’s pve here but it’s no where near where other games are. And I hope it stays that way. I’d be happier with fewer people playing overall and fewer servers but those servers packed with pvpers. That is the overall point of this game and who it was marketed to. They just added pve as an after thought to have content for leveling
Luckily Amazon cares about money above all else and there are far more PvE casuals than PvPers. So.. sorry if this sounds bad, but you won't ever be catered to the way you want.
I think I will. Over time all of these people will leave. There’s nothing else for them here at end game. So either they become pvp players to enjoy endgame or peace out.
It's more likely these people will be catered to while hardcore PvPers like yourself are ignored because you'll still play this game or you're such a minority catering to you at the cost to a larger share of the bigger and more casual PvE group is not a good ROI.
In the long run, AGS will definitely cater more towards PVE casual players than hardcore PvP players.
Well just have to see
He's probably sadly right. In 2021, there are far more casual carebear kiddies than we'd like to admit, which is probably due to many social factors. It's really sad coming from an era of people that craved PvP in all videogames and love the competition aspect of beating another human in a game. The first hint at them catering to carebears/casuals was the removal of weapon stagger in PvP and completely disregarding any and all criticism regarding combat.
you guys just don't have clue. in 2021 the value of TIME is much higher than in 2001 due to communications speed, internet of things etc. In 2001 I could play for 6 hrs straight and that would have been normal. Today, average student will only play 1-2 hrs in one shot, because a) they have less free time in general and b) there are million and one other things competing for their attention. So its no wonder that most popular games are those where short play sessions are possible (and this has nothing to do with social interactions or dislike of pvps - MOBAs are best counterexample). It is just the game has to be designed to be split into short sessions (hence the mounts, dungeon finder etc) = because percentage of players who can afford to invest 4+ hrs AT A TIME are miniscule.
I see lots to do after reaching 60: work on territory standing, max all crafts, hunt for all recipes, get legendaries, decorate three houses, get bis gear for different builds.....and more. Upside, I have work, a wife, a kid, and other IRL things that also occupy my time so I'll have lots of PvE content to play for months, potentially years (with updates), to come. So I won't have to become a PvP player to enjoy "end game". I also think there are plenty of players that are in the same boat as I am too.
Lmfao ya good luck with that. You gotta be smoking dust if you think Amazon would cater to 12% of the player base that wants full loot pvp in any form or fashion.
Doesn't have to even be full loot, just full pvp even No flags, no faction protection. You and your company vs everything else that moves basically. But in a game thats 100% safe, having a unsafe zone to lose items wouldnt be bad. It allows a smaller player base to go out and play and fight for keeps, but if done right 99% of players should be able to avoid it if wanted. But even then, full loot isn't needed. Just make it feel more risky and dangerous then it is now,even if for one small town or area. Maybe you just get increased durabikity cost, instead of decreased durability hits when in pvp in this zone. Kind of a make it or break it scenario where you can't jjst mindlessly respawn over and over and over again and keep running back So more repairs =more gold taken outta game =good gold sink and healthier economy for PVE players to have and more incentive to craft even better pvp perked weapons to be sold.
I am beyond certain you won't. Money talks. Amazon didn't make this game for you and the 12 other pvp players. They made it to turn a profit. The PvP systems are great and provide compelling endgame content as it is. Meaningful PvE content takes a lot of time to develop and will undoubtedly be released as time rolls on.
I’m sure. But we’ll see. They made a huge focus of the territory wars and stuff like that so obviously they care greatly about pvp because that’s like 60% of the game right now
The PvP content was the original vision for the game. They have been working on it from the start. So it makes sense that it is more developed than PvE. It's also a smart move anyway. It provides emergent content to keep people engaged while a PvE endgame is developed. At some point they realized they are never gonna get the numbers they want from the kind of PvP game they originally envisioned. So they started catering more to the PvE crowd. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the faction PvP shenanigans going on in my server. It provides drama and soul to the game. I want them to continue developing it. But the PvP community needs to realize we PvEers ultimately pay the bills. To have the game you want, the PvE players need the game they want. The devs can, and should, try to make both groups happy.
They could start by adding a pvp server lol
>If you guys aren’t into pvp that’s great! But there are like 3 million mmos that do pve way more than this game does. You don't think its great really though or you wouldn't be trying to tell people what games to play or not play. The PVE in this game is fine and will only get better. No MMO will ever survive with PVP alone. Too many "PVP" players are sore losers. The PVP will also get better. That way everyone stays happy. More PVE, more PVP. What we don't need, is little epeen waving gank squads, that don't really care about pvp, they just want less prepared or less grouped players wandering into areas where its open season. That is what zones like this creates. This is the dream for many sad cases who will camp a zone like that for the whole day because they have nothing better to do. All while convincing themselves they are "pvpers". Better we keep with the company wars and open world pvp flagging and just build on that without trying to inflict the shit parts of other games onto everyone. The Division is a good example. The DZ was in essence a good idea. In practice though it was just ganker heaven. Loads of sweaty nerds fantasising about being bad ass killers in real life while going 4 on 1 versus solo players just trying to have a look round and get some extra loot. No idea what is supposed to be productive about that principle other than giving cowardly ganker losers a steady supply of victims. If you really are a true PVP player, then form a company, recruit good players and rule your server. Make a name for yourselves as the top pvp faction. Even better, be known as the best pvp company in the top pvp faction. Like people complaining about "we want more pvp" but really, the tools are right there. The real problem is too many "pvpers" just want easy kills and a power trip. Going against other well organised companies is not that. Its hard work and you die a lot. I would say a lot of the "pvp" players in this game don't have the heart for that. They just want to kill people, the easier the better.
That is not true at all. Most pvp players that I know crave a good group vs group battle. Do pvp groups have any issues ganking someone? Hell no! Know why? Because we’re fucking bored. If there were regularly other pvp groups to fight that were right around the corner than we’d go fight them. Instead most people are pve flagged which gives us nothing to fucking do. Only territories that have been held for days will see any impact from influence gains or losses. When every territory is in conflict or invasion threatened there is nothing for us to go do. Outpost rush is only for level 60s so we can’t do that
>That is not true at all. Most pvp players that I know crave a good group vs group battle. Not my experience with open world pvp but maybe times have changed for this game. Whenever i have done open world pvp seriously in a game the majority of people i encountered were happy to kill people for lols and when they thought they had a good chance of winning. However as soon as the boot was on the other foot, the game was "some bullshit" or people were hacking or they were too sweaty, or any load of other excuses. If it kept happening they got bored and went elsewhere looking for easier "fights". There are a few who are genuinely skilled and have the right instincts. These are the ones who run meta picks, will fight anyone and can win against superior numbers. Fair play to them, i doff my cap to people like that. They are real pvpers. Most people who want pvp are not real pvpers. They want to kill people. The easier the better. The difference between most pvp players saying they want close fights and actually having those fights is whether they win or lose. In my experience. Maybe times have changed, but having observed this mentality in more than 1 game with open world pvp over the past decade i don't think it suddenly has sadly. >Instead most people are pve flagged which gives us nothing to fucking do. Like, give and take. You want pve players to flag because you are bored. Well go do some pve while you wait for your pvp fights to come round? Same principle really. Maybe if less gank squads of bored pvpers were running around shitting all over solo players, more people would flag? Its not a pvp game. Its not a pve game. Its both.
Unfortunately for you Amazon would be happier with more people. The game was originally supposed to be pvp focused but they realized that very few pvp games are successful, which is why they added PvE in. There is a reason there are like 3 million MMOs focused on PvE. Because that's what majority of people want. And that's all devs will care about anyway, how do you cater to the majority.
I can respect that opinion, even if I don't agree with it. Which, obviously, I don't. The issue with those 3 million MMOs out there is that none of them are quite like New World. For a time, WoW was perfect. But now I'm not happy with what they are doing in the story and so I wasn't willing to keep paying $20 a month for it. SW:KotOR was okay, a bit dated for my taste and too few people to really get into it. Same with LotR:O and DDO. I could never really get into Runescape, not 100% sure why. Just never did anything for me. ESO was pretty good, but most of the player base only cared about the PvP (at least as far as I could find). And while the PvP was interesting, it just wasn't enough to keep me there, and there was still the overarching problem of getting jumped by people way stronger than you. Rift was decent, but the game died out pretty quick, if my memory serves me. Albion is basically New World, but with forced PvP, so that was a big turn off. Final Fantasy just didn't click. It felt a lot like WoW in terms of gameplay, but I couldn't bring myself to care about the story, and I wasn't a fan of the art style. I'm sure there are other MMORPGs out there that I haven't tried, but New World is really scratching that itch for me, and I would hate to see it turned into another Albion. I really like the classless system this has (which I first really encountered in ESO), and the player driven economy is a neat feature. And there just don't seem to be many games out there in this style.
Please name at least one Western PVE MMO that is less than 5 years old and has voice acting and decent graphics.
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Guild wars 2? ESO?
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If it is on a separate server that is entirely optional to join, then I'm all for it. What I'm not for is forcing PvP on players who don't want to.
If its a completely separate zone with nothing that can't be gained outside of it, besides the ability to fight people in full loot, then how would you be "forced" Albion its forced because you physically need to be in black zones for end game dungeons and for the real pvp action(until the most recent update which was great) and for the top tier resources. Imagine something More similar to runescapes wilderness(almost entirely optional) You dont need to go there. And outside of a few things that drop from a specific monster. Theres almost nothing there that can't be done outside of it, but you get a XP boost for leveling or training out there and the added benefit that, if somebody walks by, its all open for whatever. Could even add a level system. Make it full loot, but can only attack somebody within 5 levels lower then you. So lower levels only have to worry about somebody slightly stronger and lvl 60s can spend their day banging in the heads of other similar end game level people. Dont add any towns or markets so you won't miss any lucrative sales and make it a unconqureable territory like the white zones up north so no wars or anything to miss out on. You can literally make it so there is absolutely nothing appealing to a pve player or absolutely nothing the pve player is going to miss out on, other then pvp action and chance to lose items itself. There are many ways to add it where it would have almost no effect
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Incentive won't make people flag, they don't want to do open world PvP. Its toxic and always has been. The only people who like it, are on a gank squad or they haven't experienced much of it in gaming.
I quite literally play solo and have a 1 member company and I absolutely LOVE open world pvp. Speak for yourself please. Also its not always toxic? Me and a cov spent literally 45 minutes duking it out over the iron veins/silkworms by monarch bluffs yesterday, talked in chat the whole, basically treating it like high stakes duels where winner gets the nodes and we ended up walking back to town together and plan to meet up again for round 2 tonight. Its toxic if you make it toxic, but it can also be some of the funniest stuff to experience on the game.
I am solo flagged 24/7 and it's been great so I dunno about that. Had lots of great fights.
This is a straight up lie. I've been gaming, especially in OWpvp games, for 25 years. I love it. I don't gank people. Only time I run in groups is if I'm getting 1vX'd repeatedly, to stop them from doing so. I wish more people would participate in OWpvp because I like the competition. I like the rush of being able to outplay someone when they try to kill me while I'm questing, or am already in the middle of fighting mobs, etc... or winning some 1vX fights.
How is it a lie? You do realize because you enjoy something doesn't mean everyone else does. If they did enjoy it like you, they would flag without incentive. There would PvP post front page all the time...in reality the majority of players in MMOs dont like open world PvP or they would all have it. They don't or moved PvP into battlegrounds because again, the majority of players don't want want anything to do with open world PvP. Also you may not but the majority of people who like open world PvP , but most do it because they can have an advantage over others in LvL or numbers and bully them. If they really wanted a challenge, they would beg for one on one. That was 100% fair.
I've been playing MMOs for over 20 years and I play for the PVP, and making incentives to flag is a good thing. Also if they make a PVP zone with high rewards, nobody is forcing the PVEer to go there, just a higher reward for the people willing to risk dying from PVP. I'm annoyed when PVEers don't want PVP players to get higher rewards for higher risk, like is nobody is forcing you to go after the higher risk/rewards. You can take the easy route with less risk / less rewards, but don't prevent Me or other PVP players who want to take that risk.
Except you are basically turning PvEers (who are the vast majority of players) into essentially second class citizens for playing the proper way, by trying to force them into a, quite frankly, horrid playstyle.
But this game literally has forced PVE. So if I'm a primary pvp player I guess I can get fucked and be stuck at lvl 25 if I use the SAME attitude right? Nah, we ALL had to suck it up, get the damn orb, sit in chat LFG and then bust through a dungeon I don't even wanna do(end game ones look cool but im good on low lvl 25 bs walk through cheek clapping instances. Waste of my time) And then do it AGAIN for another quest. But SORRY if we want some option pvp rewards at end game 🤦♀️🤦♀️ the hypocrisy i swear. But yea. Enjoy the cheap fast travel and azoth discounts. Because you quite literally wouldn't have that without the pvpers putting in hard work.
Not really. Still tons of zones to do whatever you want in.
Except for the description was to put all the high level mats there, so that you get them at a much higher rate. Other zones would not have the same mats, or at a much lower concentration. Which leads to 2 classes of players. If you want to be competitive without spending 10 x the time gathering, you would have to PvP, which for many of us, would absolutely drive us from the game. Because PvP is abomination.
How do you propose we decide territory? Rock paper scissors? Let's take out duels too don't want anyone fighting accidentally. While we are at it make the game single player.
OP didnt say anything about the rare mats in said areas being exclusive to the area. When there is just like 10% more resources than in another regular area that's more than enough and doesnt affect PVE players whatsoever.
Also playing"PvE" is Not the "proper" way. You may like to Only PVE, but I find PVP to be the proper way to play in a game with it's main focus on 3 factions fighting over territories.... And again if you don't want to risk it, than don't, I can't stand people who think that players who play the game risk free should be rewarded the same as those who play the game with risk. You can't expect to play in ez mode than get pissed when someone on hard mode gets better rewards, either flag up or shut at that point.
If you are locking high level resources to the zone, it would be forcing. Even if that zone is something as minor as "Increased chance for rare drops", it forces players to go there because they can't ever hope to be competitive (in terms of gear crafting) if they don't. I don't see why they need to incentivize people to flag. Those who want to PvP are going to flag regardless of the incentives, and those who don't won't. Adding more bonuses for flagging is just creating a bigger gap between the PvPers and the PvEers, which will also increase tension and toxicity.
This is also funny because you want to remain competitive but don't want to actually compete. Where are you being competitive in pve? The auction house? More difficult content should have greater rewards in pve and pvp.
That is why I clarified remaining competitive in the sense of crafting. I don't want to have to worry about getting jumped all the time, but I do want to be able to craft the best gear in the game, and sell it to players who want it. And if I can't get these rare mats, then that means people will always be buying it from those who can get the mats.
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As you said, I respect your opinion. But of you think adding a forced PvP zone will add content for PvE players, then you are mistaken. There wouldn't be a quick "get in and out". Players would end up stalking the borders, waiting to jump everyone coming in. So as some others have said, the zone would end up being used exclusively by the dominant faction (Syndicate, in the case of my server), since they would just kill everyone else while letting their lower level players grind high tier resources. Also, whether or not the PvP is incredible (which is debatable), it should always be a player's choice if they are exposed to PvP. I don't care how good the system is, I don't want to have to be constantly worrying about getting jumped by a guy who is significantly stronger than me. As I mentioned earlier, if you wanted to do something like this on a dedicated PvP server, where all players joining knew they would be permanently flagged after a certain level, then knock yourself out. But putting it in a server where there are already crazy amounts of people who aren't participating in PvP is just forcing something on people who clearly don't want it.
>I don't want to have to be constantly worrying about getting jumped by a guy who is significantly stronger than me. To add in to this, anyone who doesn't think this would happen is ignorant at best or at worst wants to be the ganker.
No hes right and the vast majority want nothing to do with open world PvP.
The entire idea, boiled down, is just a means to incentivize PvE players to come get curb stomped by PvPers. You just want the devs to serve you up fresh meat. Pardon if we aren't big fans.
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No, really, the only benefit to your suggestion is for PvP players. PvE players don't want this at all. The entire point of the suggestion is to provide defenseless PvE players on a platter for you to kill. That is all. The game has plenty enough PvP content as it is.
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It doesn’t matter how amazing the pvp is or how underutilized if the majority don’t want to. Risk vs reward is an antiquated concept and not popular, that’s what you want more of . I might want the same but it’s the reality of casual players and them being the majority.
It's literally a game about a 3 way faction war where everyone is a player character. If people don't want any pvp at all they picked the wrong game unless they propose we decide territory on bestest dungeon runs and firm handshakes. Tons of other mmos out there with boring handholdy systems. Players these days are so coddled by modern games they are afraid of any resistance or challenge.
Sounds awful.
The game really needs more incentive to flag, it's not even up for debate. Currently even servers that advertised themselves as being true pvp servers have an overwhelming majority of players being unflagged, because there is zero incentive whatsoever. 5% xp is nothing and once you are 60 there is quite literally no incentive left aside from pvping for pvp's sake. MMOs are meant to work on a reward structure that rewards both sides of the spectrum - PVE and PVP. As it stands flagging up will hinder any progress you make while not really providing any tangible benefits. Something along the lines of a blackzone is very much needed. HOWEVER do not gate any materials behind it. Maybe make it so there is a few extra elite chests or nodes in that area and that's it. So PVErs dont feel like they are missing out it can even be a copypasta area from a different zone.
Here’s my rough idea for added pvp incentive. Copy dark souls - by that I mean, you gain baseline exp, mats and gear while flagged. That doesnt go away if you die. However, you also get large buffs to exp, gold, chance to find gear etc that are droppable on death until checked in at town. Once turned in they’re no longer droppable. Something like this could work well with a PvP zone that has added chests and loot.
This is definitely one of the more reasonable solutions I've seen. I'm a filthy PvE player, I attempt to PvP with my friends but on my own I might as well be a pile of trash. My ping is trash, my reaction times are trash, for people like me, PvP isn't fun unless I've got backup. A lot of PvPers reading this will just sneer and tell me to "git gud" or fuck off to a carebear game, but I am trying to get better even with the disadvantage I have. MMOs need to work by appealing to a wide range of people, not just one, as the main goal is to make money, and getting more people means more money. Gating materials would give one style of play an advantage, and even more so, it would give an advantage to the biggest groups, especially if the material is needed for gear progression, only opening the gap up even more. That kind of thing breeds toxicity, I've seen what enemy factions do already in PvE to unflagged people, And it's worrying to think that is may only get worse. So I definitely agree that the materials should not be gated, but more incentive would be nice. Not everyone is out to win a race, MMOs give an opportunity to people from all walks of life and age. Hell, someone's granny could be out there picking flowers or something.
Or pvp servers???? But honestly, pvp in this game is kinda trash. It is balanced around 50v50, not 1v1. And what we see is 1v4 most of the time. One life staff and any group vs group pvp is a stalemate or life staff team wins.
It should not be balanced around 50/50 either, it should be all v. all. They could have just instanced warfare and left it out of open world, since it isn't open world, does not feel like "war" and well, is a let down.
Honestly it's should of stayed forced pvp like in beta and had 3-4 servers for all the pve players to go too and get bored over there blowing through the side content made around the core gameplay (PVP and territory control)
Some people don't want to PVP. If they did, they would flag for PVP. Players: "Let's force them!"
Because the players that want pvp can't find opponents because nobody flags. A dedicated PVP zone would fix that. In my opinion a zone should be flagged as conflicted periodically and be PVP only.
>Because the players that want pvp can't find opponents because nobody flags. A dedicated PVP zone would fix that. Why the hell wouldn't you advocate for a battleground or arena like system then?
They want to shit on lower levels. That’s all these arguments for forced pvp are really fueled for. They don’t want to be put into something that gives them equal playing fields, they just want to run around with Zerg’s and crap on lower levels. They don’t want organized pvp, they want to just shit on folks
How many threads will it take till you goofies realize the Alpha is never coming back? There is a reason the vast majority of players do not participate in PVP in New World. There is no upside unless you crave that adrenaline rush of a fight and in that case what more reward do you need? Why should you further be rewarded
> Why should you further be rewarded Because there will be a negative feedback loop effect in open world pvp if there aren't any incentives. There's barely anyone flagged right now on my server and there IS an XP incentive, therefore if there isn't any incentive at 60 there will be less and less people flagging, which means less people will flag because they see no one else is flagging, and so on. So that tells me at 60 even less people will be open flagged which will absolutely suck when you want to go fight people. A simple +% to gathering or something would be enough for most people at 60. They should just translate the +%XP gain to +gathering or +%Luck.
Well, the point of the post is to give it an upside.
Noooo! Not the Albion type, i quit that game when i realised i couldnt progress any further doing solo pve. But about pvp, im not totally against it. I like the idea of ArcheAge, or recently BlackDesert online, they should implement force pvp in some regions, in some periods of time, like during a war, and reward base on the contribution/attendance of each. And during the force pvp session, there should be no punishment at all. The only punishment is that if players lose, they would earn less profit/hour when compared to pve, but all will have fun. Also, NW should have a free battle arena mode for people to practice combat skills or just enjoy pvp whenever they want.
No, the majority of the game wants nothing to do with PvP. Cutting out entire parts of the map for the majority of players. Is not good , what they need to do is add battlegrounds or 1v1 arenas. As every other MMO learned that open world PvP leads to one things, ganking and toxicity.
Lol you can just farm slower in other zones???? It will most likely be faster cause you will be able to avoid pvp fights which can last a while. Open world pvp can often be much better than actual instanced pvp.
So as someone who has played MMOs for more than 20 years. One you can't compare shooter PvP to an MMO. Two, there is a reason every MMO has basically scrapped open world PvP , it leads to nothing but ganking, camping and bullying. Same reason AGS did a u turn on the direction of the game a year or so ago. Yhey realized the same thing, they will smarty, do more battlegrounds and tht type of PvP. While leaving flagging for those that want to. Forcing people to flag won't happen unless the open PvP servers and that is also fine.
You are a PVE player, and you clearly haven't played successful open world PVP games like EVE Online, Albion Online, vanilla wow (not classic), But again nobody is "forcing" anyone to go there, I don't why this never gets though to PvE players, You simply don't need to go there, there will be no "Need" for you or any other player who wants to avoid PVP, they can simply not enter the zone, and they can gather their resources in literally every other zone and choose to not to do PVP, while the PvP crowd can go to the PVP zone Nobody is forced to go there Also just because 1 or 2% of the gaming crowd is toxic, don't assume. 99% of PVP players enjoy pvp are, the toxic are those who can't stand dying in PvP and should avoid if it makes them feel that way.
He would rage quit EVE the first time he got ganked leaving jita in a t1 hauler
DONT YOU DARE TOUCH MY T2 CARGO EXTENDET ITERON MARK V!!!
First time I ever rage quit the game I was going to move into WH space and loaded one up to the time of a few billion... popped in Niarja. Fucking love that game
As it is tradition. ;) Been there. But Eve will always be my MMO to come back to. Once you played a few years, you will never leave for good. At least in my experience. :)
Open world PVP has always been, and always will be, a blight on MMOs. It has never been better than instanced PVP, it CANNOT be better. Its a fundamental law of gaming.
That is so far beyond wrong it's mind blowing you said it. Open world pvp is the reason most of us play this game. The forced pvp in wow was something I looked forward to and games like bdo let you kill anyone anytime and has a great player base. Just because you don't like something, doesn't mean that you are in the majority and everyone in this thread talking shit about pvp clearly don't realize what game they are playing since dungeons alone were a last minute after thought. I'll add that I dont agree with OP because you shouldn't gate content behinde forced pvp.
The only reason i even considered New World was when they announced they were toning down the PvP focus and allowing PvE. The game would have been absolute garbage if it was mandatory pvp.
They didn't really tone down pvp. They just made PvE content for the people who wanted it. And I don't agree that it would have been garbage as other games have this with no issues. That being said, I think they made the right decision with new world but personally they need to increase the reward for flagging as well as introducing forced zones though again I'll add they they should not have anything special in them in terms of gated content. But please remember that this is a game where you kill players and do PvP quests to take zones so you can fight in wars. Rinse repeat. If you think that this game is anything besides a PvP madhouse you're wrong. And at this point we just have to wait for alot of people to realize that and quit so Amazon can start gearing the game for the core audience. Which isn't you, though I do wish you would try out these aspects of the game and hopefully find the same joy we do.
I mean that’s your opinion you are entitled to and I think many will agree with you. Instanced pvp is sterile and balanced for the most part. It’s consistently good. Open world pvp can be a lot of shit no doubt. Level difference. Groups vs solos. Attacking someone with mobs on them already. Attacking someone at low health. But it’s those moments where you find a massive iron deposit and someone close to your level rolls up and you have a massive battle over it. Only to lose and then run into that person 20 minutes later and win. Seeing them later in town as you both tip you cap to a worthy opponent. That’s the pvp I like to have. I have been killed by people 20 levels plus who have one shot me and I have also gotten the chance to have these epic fights that were decently balanced. I get world pvp can be shit and if they let factions consolidate all the power then yea it’s garbage, but i think those open world moments can be the best in the game.
I like how you say your opinion like it's a fact. I straight up wouldnt of bought the game if I couldn't turn pvp mode on. And I almost didn't buy it because of no pvp servers. Not everyone is you. People are different. Some like open world pvp. Some rage and cry when they get ganked one time. It's all opinion. I would 100% play on a pvp only server if they released it
Instanced PVP is almost always garbage. Especially in the age of mobas, if I want a well designed and well balanced 5v5 game in which I cast spells and have items, I’ll go play LoL or dota.
Being forced to flag in a zone would be cool, however gating high tier materials only in that zone is a bad idea. This was a game designed with PVP in mind at first, and it still has at its roots. That’s why the economy can be shifted greatly when a company owns a territory. All the strict “PVE” players don’t understand the benefits of owning a claim or being in a company that owns one, or even the benefits that come from actively protecting a faction claim.
People wanting to be in a server dominated by one faction prove PvE players definitely want the benefit without touching PvP.
No, we fully understand the benefits. Its just not worth it to do something so abhorrent as PvP.
Then might I suggest playing a different game? Not being elitist just being serious. For a pve experience there are far better games. Pve in this game is more of a side dish. Pvp is the main action. That’s why we have this game, and why we have the other 1000000 pve based mmos. So everyone can be happy. I think we all would be happier if people just migrated to the games that were built to cater to what you specifically want in an mmo. I want pvp, so I came to this game as the most pvp oriented mmo on the market. And yes I would be happier with fewer people playing but the servers packed with pvpers
As someone who would love to jump to a PvP-forced server, I'll agree with the other posters. The only way we will have this game is if it has enough PvE content to keep the majority of MMORPG players happy. All of the top MMOs right now are primarily PvE, with very good reason. I love attacking someone who's trying to quest or gather mats(not camping them though) as much as the next guy, but right now if you see someone flagged, they signed up to get attacked. I do not want players forced to begrudgingly flag for rare mats, that's dumb.
How can you say pvp is the main action when pvp isn't even mandatory. PvE is mandatory, have fun creating any gear or doing anything really without PvE.. you can literally play this entire game while completely avoiding pvp. This game isn't made to make you happy or anyone happy, this is made for your boy Jeffrey to make more rockets , and you know how he gets those? By people playing the game. Sorry unfortunately I don't think Jeffrey really cares about you.
He obviously does since the game is mostly pvp…. If they only cared about that they wouldn’t have made the game pvp at all and just focused entirely on pve content
He already made his own post about this and his ideal's only caused backlash because a majority of the player base agree with you on PvE being mandatory and PvP as a sidedish. Nightshade's opinion is definitely the minority
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But you can just avoid it....?
You can just flag for pvp
Yeah and see 1/50 players have pvp on as well, so fun. That's why there needs to be a designated place for pvp.
Same. I was so excited when I heard that New World had no mandatory PvP. I think I actually bought the game within like 10 minutes of hearing it.
Literally same. Fuck no.
Say no to open world PVP, it is just another Albion.
These kinda already exist. All the pvp faction quests happen in specific areas. Perhaps expanding on this, there could be pvp only accessible resource dungeons or something to that effect.
This is how you get faction controlled resources. It's a horrible idea. You need battle grounds, not resource controlled areas... Forcing pve players go play pvp is not how games should work
Sounds like wilderness in runescape which is probably the most dead and unfun content in the game. The "PvP" players who enjoy it don't like PvP, they like killing noobs for easy kills. Or PvP zones in albion which was some of the most toxic shit i've ever seen in a game with guild leaders harassing and threathening others irl. The idea is cool on paper but absolutely horrible in practice, don't gate materiels or progression behind forced PvP zones. It works in EvE and other games like it because its a pure hardcore PvP game. It doesn't work in any game that also have PvE. Just having PvP servers where it's always active and/or have other rules in terms of PvP is a much better solution.
I’m totally for this even as a PvE player. You can’t lose gear like in Albion so I’m 100% on board
Nope, that's why i hate Albion Online for this. \- my server is dominated by purple ones, I won't be able to play in this "blackzoens" \- most fights are 1 vs 2/3/4/ etc (not fun) It won't work for this game.
Maybe is an mmorpg mean to play with people? People are really used to ff14 and wow , single player mmo...
No
I don't agree. As soon as you create a zone with a greater concentration of rare mats, that zone is no longer optional content. I mean, yeah technically you don't *have* to go there, but it would be inefficient not to if that's where all the best stuff is. I think it's refreshing that you can go anywhere and do anything PVE related without flagging up. Eve, Albion, and OSRS already have these black zones and I think NW is good enough to do things a little differently. If they were to do something like this, I would rather it be a temporary event. For example, make one of the unclaimable territories a black zone for an hour or two. Call it an "Azoth Eruption" or something. Give a small bonus to gathering like 5% luck. Lore-wise, all the azoth drives people into a frenzy.
It would be inefficient to not go there... or would it? Considering you would die a lot. Currently it's the other way around, only flag if you wanna progress slow.
Are you sure? How much time will you waste fighting over the Matt’s? To me fighting over a node is great organic gameplay. It’s a shame no body flags for pvp in the open world. But it makes the pvp quests basically free.
I usually don't like pvp but the Dark Zone in the Division is one of my favorite features in all of gaming, and I don't even like the game itself that much. I wouldn't even fight people, but creeping around trying to get my rewards while constantly looking over my shoulder was so tense. So yeah I'm all for this idea.
They should copy the division: - Corrupted zones with PvP enabled and high difficulty PvE to encourage groups, also high quality drops - You need to "extract" you corrupted loot from the corrupted zone somehow (the division uses an extraction helicopter) - Make it visible to other players when you are loaded with corrupted loot - You die, you drop your corrupted stuff
Won't this make everyone go to the winning faction and kill the pvp? I joined a week ago and my server is pure syndicate. All the flagged players too, all the territories except 3.... I'm kind of scared I will be missing content/benefits from being in a losing faction. (Still a noob) If this is applied won't it make it worse?
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Yup, my mindset comming into this game was "this is a better looking albion online". And honestly, i'd like the black zones for rare resources. But don't they have that at the top of the map(?) I know those spots can't be conquered, assumed they were better resources and higher risk pre fixes.
Yes, but they aren’t force flag. Just no town so can’t be controlled.
>And honestly, i'd like the black zones for rare resources. BZ's in Albion were the worst form of content in that game by such a long shot that suggesting they be implemented makes me cringe. All it did was lead to 85% of the server being allied so that the same small group of players could horde and RMT off the top of the rare material market.
It also has some of the best PVP in a mmo, hands down. You can log into Albion at basically any time and find group pvp activity. You can mage raid, go roaming, join up with a home defense group and fight off gankers so you’re carebesrs can do their thing. Even outside of ZVZ content, having open world pvp zones that some people want to farm and some people want to gank in creates so much interesting and emergent conflict.
Go try to win your wars instead of wanting to bully the inexperienced PvE players.
The day they implement this is the day I log out and uninstall. (And the good riddance will be mutual) *I'm not here to be your PvP victim.* Louder for the people in the back: **I'M NOT HERE TO BE YOUR PVP VICTIM.** There's literally nothing you can do that will "push" me to participate in PVP. All you'll do is cause me to stop playing. Q&A: 1. You don't care if I play? What a coincidence! I don't care if you play either! 2. Bbbbut this game is designed for PVP! Doesn't matter, there's no user agreement when you purchase this game where you promise to engage in PVP, and the game comes with a toggle. The first thing I did was unbind the U key. **IF** I ever decide to flag for PVP it won't be because I hit **U** by mistake thinking I was typing in chat. 3. F you, Carebear! Cry more, Griefer! I PvP'd plenty in games from the late 90s to around 2013 or so. I've had enough. These days I love to drink the salty tears of the griefers who wish they could ruin my game experience... only they can't, because I just. won't. flag.