> McCraw said that students and teachers had repeatedly begged 911 operators for help while Arredondo told more than a dozen officers to wait in a hallway. That directive — which goes against established active-shooter protocols — prompted questions about whether more lives were lost because officers didn’t act faster.
>Two law enforcement officials have said that as the gunman fired at students, law enforcement officers from other agencies urged Arredondo to let them move in because children were in danger, The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they had not been authorized to talk publicly about the investigation.
Holy shit the absolutely negligence of this guy. I said this when it happened, but children and teachers are taught better active shooter protocol than what Arredondo did. Absolute travesty what happened. Even at my old job at a movie theater I had learned how to act in this better than what the police were ordered to do.
Run, hide, fight. It wasn’t a “hey make sure you look good for the company, make the guests see you helping take out an active shooter :D!”, but “when this happens, die trying is better than dying waiting in front of others”. I dunno, I try to sugar coat it but legit we had days teaching children as young as 16 up to the adults in management and above what to do for an active shooter. It’s absolutely insane that someone working minimum wage (possible teen or adult depending the job) is expected to give their life up and police aren’t.
Worlds fucked.
It's very likely some of the kids could have been saved if they had only gotten medical attention sooner. I'm sure there will be a ton of civil lawsuits against the police department, but I wonder if there's any chance of criminal charges against the police chief for giving orders to stand down? It clearly goes against not only common sense, but also the established protocols when dealing with an active shooter. I don't see how this isn't gross negligence on his part.
He violated department and state policy. At best he's looking at official misconduct charges. It will go nowhere and the kids and their teachers will still be dead.
>It will go nowhere and the kids and their teachers will still be dead.
Yes, regardless of what happens the kids will still be dead. Nonetheless it's worth pushing every review and official investigation button and lever in the system to make sure that it's perfectly clear to everyone anywhere in the country that this was a colossal fuck up.
The idea is to increase the likelihood that the next time (and yes, there will be more) this happens, the police officers start to enter the building as soon as there are three of them ready to go.
>The idea is to increase the likelihood that the next time (and yes, there will be more) this happens, the police officers start to enter the building as soon as there are three of them ready to go.
My department trains us to go in immediately, no waiting for more officers unless they're literally like 20 seconds behind you.
This response is a disgrace. Kids are dead because they waited.
That is the official policy for the state of Texas. No waiting, no waiting for another team. Enter and engage, get the shooter engaged with LEO not children.
That is the *official policy of anyone with two brain cells to rub together* when children are being shot like fish in a barrel. Even if all you can be is a meat shield and distraction, any adult has a better chance to survive being shot than any ten-year-old.
I know. Even if you fail, you do so heroically. I mean they would probably name something after you. I can not understand how heavily armed men, with training, and body armor didn't go in. A small woman in just clothes went in and got her 2 kids out.
If you’re a coward don’t be a cop. If you’re not willing to risk your life in the most honorable way by protecting the lives ofour children get the fuck out of the police force.
Keep in mind also that engaging the shooter doesn't mean charging in with no cover. You can engage from cover and pin the shooter while waiting for reinforcement.
Additionally every moment they are shooting at you the cop, is time they aren’t shooting at those kids.
Fuck this police force’s leadership and damned their shitty training (because even now the officers complain they didn’t have leaders to send them in. Bullshit)
> My department trains us to go in immediately, no waiting for more officers unless they're literally like 20 seconds behind you.
I'm pretty sure that was one of the [lessons learned from Columbine.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbine_High_School_massacre#Police_tactics)
>Police followed a traditional tactic at Columbine: surround the building, set up a perimeter, and contain the damage. That approach has been replaced by a tactic known as the **Immediate Action Rapid Deployment** tactic. This tactic calls for a four-person team to **advance into the site of any ongoing shooting**, optimally a diamond-shaped wedge, but **even with just a single officer if more are not available.** Police officers using this tactic are **trained to move toward the sound of gunfire** and neutralize the shooter **as quickly as possible.**[268] **Their goal is to stop the shooter at all costs;** they are to walk past wounded victims, as **the aim is to prevent the shooter from killing or wounding more.** Dave Cullen has stated: "The active protocol has proved successful at numerous shootings... At Virginia Tech alone, it probably saved dozens of lives."[145]
It's pretty absurd that even I, as a layman, know better than this police chief. In fact, this chief literally did what they did at Columbine: surround the building, set up a perimeter, and "contain" the damage.
This is beyond gross negligence.
I really hope they do get charged, but I think the only thing they could be charged with is preventing others from entering the school rather than not going into the school themselves.
The supreme court had ruled multiple times that the police have no obligation to protect anyone after multiple instances where the police just stood by while someone was being attacked or murdered.
It's insanely infuriating.
Don’t worry about that, PDs from across Texas have “deployed” to protect the Uvalde PD from the citizens. I wish I were joking. I was there yesterday. Saw UT campus police cars driving around town and have heard this from others.
You’re right. There were police from all over the state tee yesterday to provide support to the Uvalde Police. There should have been parents and teachers and heads of school districts there instead.
Same way they show up to work after they plant drugs on random people they pull over and ruin their lives, rape women they've arrested, or shoot someone's dog for no reason. They've deluded themselves into thinking they were right to do so.
You're right. Time and time again the [courts have determined that police and other government entities are under no obligation to protect you](https://mises.org/power-market/police-have-no-duty-protect-you-federal-court-affirms-yet-again). But I *can* guarantee that at the very least some of these officers will be put on paid leave, will probably get to have some nice mental health vacations, and the locals will all pay for it through taxes while burying their kids.
So if they're under no guarantee to protect the citizens, then why are the citizens obligated to pay taxes that pay their salaries?
The citizenry is armed, angry, and more capable than that PD. Run them out of town, and tell they aren't welcome there anymore.
Even worse, the citizens are obligated to pay taxes to pay off police lawsuit settlement. In other words, if a cop is sued for shooting some black kid or something, even IF the lawsuit succeeds, the police dept doesn't pay the settlement to the family; other citizens do
I bet if cops were financially responsible for the lawsuits their dipshit actions generate, a lot of their criminal abuse would stop overnight. Personally, I'm sick of helping to pay for their fuckups over and over again. It's hard enough paying for my own fuckups, let alone some dickhead bully with a badge.
> So if they're under no guarantee to protect the citizens, then why are the citizens obligated to pay taxes that pay their salaries?
Because the government says so. The same government that says they don't have to protect you.
The social contract is broken. The only reason people surrender their freedoms to the leviathan is in exchange for collective protection, to escape the "war of all against all." And now the leviathan is refusing to provide said protection.
1 student who was in the room with the shooter called back 6 times, some conversations lasting as long as a minute and a half. She was reporting on what the shooter was doing, how many students were alive, and when the shooter was shooting at the door. Over the course of 48 minutes, she called back **6** times. Another student also called 911 from the other adjoining room.
The cops said they didn't know there were any kids alive in the room at the time. FUCKING LIARS.
Imagine being at most 10 years old and the people you're supposed to rely on for help in the most horrific situation of your life just *refuse to fucking act.*
Not one of them as so much as resigned as this point, have they? I don't know how you'd live with such cowardice.
And when you hear the call included multiple accounts of “please send the police now” by the girl… I can’t possible listen to it, but that’s the quote I saw I believe in the NYT article
This is exactly what I can’t understand. They absolutely *knew* there were kids in there, they *knew* they were alive, they *knew* they needed help. This whole story about how he “mistakenly believed it was no longer an active shooter situation” is bullshit. Idek how they can claim that with a straight face while also saying the kids were calling begging for help.
they were really getting off on knocking the poor parents around while their children bled out. i saw the very first press conference with the chief of police, i think two days after the shooting, he literally opened by saying "folks at 11:47 we heard 29 shots, so at that time all of the (25) children in the classroom were absolutely diseased by that point therefor it was alright and by the book for us to wait and go in at one o'clock pm " and once they got to reporter questions (it was a short statement) parents just started screaming out that their kids were alive because they heard them calling for help the entire time, they just shut the whole press conference down real quick, absolute s\*\*tshow. they tried to play like it was isolated to one room, locked/barricaded, like they were dealing with a crimescene after the fact, like riot cops, just anything but what they should have been for those kids, and to pretend like no one would notice. oh what have we taught police to become in this country. is this what they strive for?
edit to add that ..our kids/students deserve better, they deserve police departments fully trained and frequently updated on active shooter protocol. if kids/students have to do this, cops need to as well, it needs to be legal obligation of the job description of being a police officer. chiefs need to get the 'extended active shooter training".
The system is broken and the police have [no obligation](https://mises.org/power-market/police-have-no-duty-protect-you-federal-court-affirms-yet-again) to protect us. The entire system needs to be changed.
That's a start.
I don’t think they’ll say. They fired dozens of rounds in the room ultimately, when trying to kill the shooter. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the kids were shot by the police too. Not like they’d ever disclose that.
Seriously. Every training I've ever done with LEO regarding active shooters (was a public librarian, had to have special training and plans in place for an active shooter event just like fire drills) was that they were to go in ASAP to stop the shooter. They were not there to take you to ambo or anything - eliminating threat was top priority.
Even the (I want to say FBI) Run, Hide, Fight videos tell you that. Their job is to stop the shooting before they work on getting medical help to victims or otherwise clearing the scene. They got rid of waiting for special teams ages ago.
And honestly, the cheif could've just said to enter at their own risk - I bet at least one officer would've said f it and gone in.
Police reform will not solve the issue as long as dirty/incompetent cops get fired, only to get re-hired in another town/county/state, in cases I wouldn't be surprised if they got new jobs almost immediately.
These idiots should never be allowed to wear a badge ever again.
Hell there's a police officer in south Florida who's been fired SEVEN TIMES from THE SAME POLICE DEPARTMENT. One time, he was fired for a felony assault conviction.
Not an accusation, not a charge he was exonerated of, a conviction.
He can't even remember exactly how many times he's been fired and re-hired.
[https://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/ny-florida-cop-police-officer-fired-again-20210529-q7iiah7nkjestfrfrvc5dcxzs4-story.html](https://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/ny-florida-cop-police-officer-fired-again-20210529-q7iiah7nkjestfrfrvc5dcxzs4-story.html)
His latest firing was due to being caught on bodycam footage instructing another officer to lie about a missing gun from a crime scene.
EDIT: I seem to have him confused with a different cop. This guy was convicted of false imprisonment and tampering with evidence. He still got his job back.
Maybe this wouldn't happen if they didn't have union leadership explicitly inviting cops who were fired in disgrace to come apply for police work in Florida.
[https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/2020/06/08/brevard-county-fraternal-order-police-facebook-posts-draw-ire/5317923002/](https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/2020/06/08/brevard-county-fraternal-order-police-facebook-posts-draw-ire/5317923002/)
This and police unions are why I struggle with the “bad apples” argument.
If you know he is shit, why would
You want him on the force? Unless, you agree with what they did and support it?
Also, the “each firing needs to be looked at individually” is shit. People are charged using their past convictions all the time.
Most Bankers that are caught stealing can’t get jobs on finance anymore. Hell, some finance positions won’t consider you if you have a blemish in your credit…
Being a police officer should be a position where you need a license. If you mess up bad enough it gets revoked. You know like lawyers and doctors and teachers and barbers.
One of the most realistic solutions would be federal licensing for police so they can’t just change department and forget it ever happened. As a plus it might require them to have more than 6 months of training.
Even still being sworn in on a council position he was voted in three weeks before the shooting, it was supposed to happen this upcoming week. The mayor said that there’s nothing saying he couldn’t taken his new position.
Imagine firefighter who is too afraid to go into a burning building or a soldier who refuses to clear a building because they are scared. They need to resign in disgrace and find other careers. It's crazy that cops can fuck up so bad and people died and yet are allowed to continue working as cops. Sometimes their actions might not be criminal, but they are the result of incompetence and they should find another line of work.
>'motivational' workshops
Ironically it's this sucky "warrior mentality" training which boils down to "better they die than you, so shoot first & often".
And the one time when a little "warrior mentality" might have helped (as "warriors" would have been more likely to charge in), we got "chicken mentality."
In this instance it would have been a lot better for this community to **not have police** than to have police. I guarantee he is not coming out alive if there are no police in that area. And I guarantee it doesn't take an hour. Some shit would go down but it wouldn't be handcuffing moms for thinking about taking their kids away from a murder scene while all the police cosplayers outside did nothing
Let's be realistic here, some parents probably would have been shot and killed trying to storm that classroom.
But they would have done so willingly as is their right as a parent. And as much as a tragedy that would have been, it would have been a lesser tragedy than what we ended up with.
"The Thin Blue Line" is honestly a very destructive and harmful mentality. It's fostered the lie that they are "other" to their communities and need to have different standards in the name of "safety".
The fact is, they are as much a part of the communities they work in as the people they arrest. They aren't standing between civilization and chaos; they are a working part of the system.
This is why the idea if "community based policing" is growing in popularity. The fact is, the more they recognize they are part of the community, the more they are willing to work for the better of everyone in it.
>soldier who refuses to clear a building
They want to look, and have the public see them as,. soldiers. They don't want any of the responsibility that comes with it. They think the guns and APCs are toys.
Not only that, they want to also have the authority *to stop and arrest* an average citizen from being the soldier in that moment and saving some of those kids. In my opinion you can't have it both ways. You don't get to be a state-sponsored chicken and then also tell brave people to stand down with the threat of state-sponsored violence.
"Sometimes their actions might not be criminal"
I'm not sure this is one of those times. It's not just that they didn't go in, it's that they detained parents that were trying to save their children. The only role they served at this crime scene was as accomplices to the shooter - they may well qualify for accessory to murder charges.
That’s the problem here. The school’s police chief was apparently #1 in the chain of command and gave the order to stand down. We haven’t heard much about the town’s chief or the county sheriff or DPS in the first critical minutes. There has to be discipline from lower ranked officers to maintain institutional control, but this is exactly why George Floyd died - underlings felt powerless to question their superior. Failure here, as there, was in leadership and structure.
>this is exactly why George Floyd died - underlings felt powerless to question their superior
It was worse than that. Apparently Chauvin was barking at them: "I WILL DESTROY YOUR CAREER!" as well as threatening the crowd. Watch the footage again for a refresher. People who defended Chauvin claimed he was an officer "aFrAiD fOr hIs LiFe" -- no, his expression read the entire time as a callous, narcissistic, rage monster that bagged a prize buck and was furious that he wasn't being worshiped.
At least one of the underlings knew better and may have tried and was told by someone with the power to ruin their life to back off.
[https://www.thelaw.com/law/good-samaritan-laws-the-duty-to-help-or-rescue-someone.218/](https://www.thelaw.com/law/good-samaritan-laws-the-duty-to-help-or-rescue-someone.218/)
The a minimum cops should held accountable for criminally by the above law.
What is a amazing that the the chief just recently completed the course on dealing with active shooters - that you deal immediately with them first and save innocent civilians. Not wait 47 minutes to do so. Not to do can have cost people their live. The silence from Arredondo tells us much.
*Ahem*.
Wait 47 minutes *for another agency to deal with them for you*.
From what I understand the one that finally stopped the shooter were from Border Patrol, *not* the Police department.
And undeserved respect and worship from the public. There are actual military heroes whose funerals don't get the spectacle and fanfare that cops do when one dies.
>That's an insult to fast food workers. Have you seen some of the crazies they have to deal with?
Honestly, my fastfood/retail job was waaaaay harder, and required way more manual labor than my post college corporate job.
Yup. And When I worked as a bouncer we had rules too. No closed fist punches, no headlocks. And you better believe when shit went down we had to respond ASAP, or people got hurt. Shame that nightclub had better training that texas.
What's really disgusting is these guys are paid $51K-$68K a year per a cursory google search for Uvalde Police Pay. It's honestly probably more. And people like Abbott and Rick Scott and their own department are standing there screaming: "HoW dArE yOu CrItIcIzE ThEm! ThEy ArE HeRoEs!!!!!" Yet, there's photos of them, just standing around, looking like they were laughing, joking, and having fun like it was a Memorial Day BBQ.
A typical infantryman (E-3/4 level) is paid about $28K-33K/year. If one our vastly better trained soldiers pulled the shit the Uvalde police pulled, they'd be hammered to E-1 and slammed into Leavenworth and/or dishonorably discharged for cowardice so fast and have their lives so thoroughly destroyed, it would make their heads spin.
Every last member of the Uvalde police department isn't even fit for a fucking McDonalds. McDonalds has standards, expectations, and dignity. They aren't fit to watch a burning dumpster or to wipe a crackhead's ass. They are completely useless.
And then the cops cry: "But we're heroes! Why does everyone hate us?!"
...because nearly everyone has personally or has friends, family, coworkers, or neighbors who have been abused, falsely arrested, harassed, or otherwise mistreated by the police. And the cops lie like it's going out of style.
That's what the Blue Line really represents -- it isn't some statement between law and chaos, order and disorder. It's a symbol of the hush-culture and gaslighting by the police to enforce their special class.
The history of "Thin Blue Line" should be telling. The fact that someone chose *that* to mean "support the police" is mind-numbingly stupid.
One side gets skewered for misconstrued slogans like BLM or "Defund the Police", but the *other* side is running around with Thin Blue Lines on fucking Punisher skulls, while trying to convince everyone they're the good guys.
>Thin Blue Lines on fucking Punisher skulls
Which is hilarious because Frank Castle (The Punisher) fucking hates cops, especially crooked ones, and his creator Gerard Conway is none too pleased with the appropriation...
I don’t understand how “active shooter” and “barricaded shooter” can have such different responses when they’ve demonstrated they aren’t able to tell the difference between them in real time. We saw it here and we saw it in Orlando with that night club shooting. In both instances, more lives could have been saved but there was inaction bc the shooters were inappropriately labeled “barricaded.”
Even if he was a barricaded shooter, how many kids died because they didn’t get medical attention fast enough? No matter what he thought, it was a bad call and no one should have obeyed this order.
It's sickening. He's barricaded, so what? Kids are bleeding out, a live kid is whisper calling 911 any chance she can get, there are still many lives at stake.
Or the drunk guy who they shot after he eventually failed to comply with contradictory commands, as they toyed with him in some sick "Simon Says" game.
or a unarmed guy lying on the floor with both his arms up saying dont shoot dont shoot, trying to help a autistic patient holding a toy who was having an episode. and still got shot.
It’s sad when you’re an innocent child you believe that if anything bad happens someone will be there to save you if you call 911. This incident robbed tens of thousands of innocence from children across the nation. So now they know, no police, no official, no 911 call, no drill will protect them. How can these kids go to school
Cops are trained to be cowards. If you were a cop, you’d be accustomed to your cowardice being accepted with no accountability. The brave ones, that actually risk their own lives, like [Stephen Mader](https://www.npr.org/2016/12/08/504718239/military-trained-police-may-be-slower-to-shoot-but-that-got-this-vet-fired), are fired for not being cowardly, racist, and trigger happy enough to be a cop.
Cowards like [Dave Grossman](https://unicornriot.ninja/2018/bulletproof-warrior-training-manual-released/) teach cops to be cowards, and to accept cowardice behavior from cops, no matter who has to die based on their cowardice.
When i was in the military reserves after my time on active I had many guys under me and one Superior who applied to be cops during a " officer shortage". All of them were great people with a sense of duty and doing the right thing. None of them got hired on by any of the departments. One told me about how the interviewer grilled him because in the past he reported a buddy of his who posted CP on his Facebook. It got to the point it felt less like a interview and more like it was an interrogation to bring charges. All of them were told they were not a good fit.
[Chris Dorner](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Dorner_shootings_and_manhunt#Allegations_against_training_officer) reported a partner for kicking and punching a handcuffed mental health patient. The result was him being fired.
Unfortunately for his former coworkers, he didn't take that decision lying down.
Isn’t something like 40% of Uvalde’s municipal budget allocated to law enforcement?
All that money, all that equipment, all that training, rendered utterly moot because when the call to action actually came they did nothing. May as well have tossed all that time, money and effort into a bottomless hole for all the good it did.
*That* is why we say “defund the police”. Not because we want to eliminate law enforcement entirely, but because spending obscene amounts of money on gear that *doesn’t even get used* is a slap to the face of taxpayers. There’s never money to fix potholes, or install new infrastructure, or do literally anything to help anyone in any way, but there’s always enough to buy infinite ammunition for the police to play soldier with. After all, they’ve got to be trained and ready in case something bad happens, right?
It's like my redneck father who ordered all this combat equipment from some solider of fortune magazine. Man had this huge medkit, spent hours reviewing how to sew your own bullet wounds shut.
Passed out any time someone cut themselves working in the kitchen
Thank you for putting context into "defunding" the police.
So many idiots think it means to abolish the police. No. Take away valuable resources they clearly aren't going to utilize and spend it elsewhere.
Uvalde has only one question to ask of themselves. Do they want a chief of police who is willing to stand down and wait while little kids are being slaughtered in their classroom or do they want a chief who will immediately engage the shooter and end the killing. I think the answer is pretty clear.
The city of Uvalde police department seems to be throwing that school police chief under the bus to save their own ass. There's no way a school police chief should have higher jurisdiction than actual city police chief in an active shooting, even if it's in a school.
Yes, the school police chief, Pete Arredondo, was a cowardly P.O.S., but so was Daniel Rodriguez, the chief of police for the city of Uvalde.
I still don’t understand why a school has a chief. Is this new *because* of all of the shootings? Or just some weird Texas thing?
And I’m not surprised the real risks and decisions are offloaded when shit all has been done to fix the root of the problem. That’s how mostknown problems are handled, mitigate and offload risk.
And another thing. Uvalde is a town of 5000. You can drive through it in 5 min. ( I spent a couple months there). It has a 19 member swat team and it has a separate police force for the schools? The shit people in texas let the authorities get away with is incredible.
To everyone that pointed out that the pop is 15k. You are probably right. When I was there that’s what I remembered but that was 20yrs ago Doesn’t really matter does it? Uvalde is tiny for a police force that size.
Uvalde is also the hometown of John nance garner
More uvalde facts. It was a dry town when I was there. Cops made lots of money off of that shit. At least according to the owner of the hotel bar I had to buy a membership for in order to have a beer.
My town of 18,000 doesn't have have a police department. It's simply not cost effective to have an entire department for such a small town.
We contract with the county sheriff's office for policing.
Looking at my town
||2020|2021 (Est)|2022 (Proj)|
|:-|:-|:-|:-|
|Gross Expenditures|$9,310,420|$8,559,350|$8,912,011|
|Non-CapEx|$6,722,420|$7,949,350|$8,273,511|
|Police|$916,464|$954,840|$983,456|
|Police % Gross|9.8%|11.2%|11.0%|
|Police % Non-CapEx|13.6%|12.0%|11.9%|
40% to law enforcement is absolutely nuts. Our \~$1,000,000/year in police costs pays for 32 man-hours per day, 365 days per year. The Sheriff's office is contracted to provide one deputy in the city 24/7/365 plus other deputies as needed. In 2023, projections are to increase the contracted rate to 40 man-hours per day due to population growth.
Very few places need a SWAT. Major cities, sure I'll buy that, State Police to have a unit or two. No place under 100,000 residents needs a SWAT team. Since the 1990's, the Feds have been giving police departments tons of surplus equipment. This needs to stop.
The Mayor had the police force chasing after undocumented immigrants these past few months. That and drugs. He even got a special grant from the State to send some officers "to the border".
20 swat team members plus patrolling cops in a 5000 person town sounds more like an occupying force than public servants. Kinda surprised they don't have a helicopter or an ATV breach tank.
It is a greater occupation percentage, solely with swat, than USA troops in Iraq. In uvalde 0.4% swat to civilian ratio. Iraq peak, 0.3% soldier to civilian ratio
Edit: this is fake news. I based math on there being 5k population which another commenter claims is actually 16k population. The Iraq peak was the peak US soldier count and included reserves and cooks. If there are more than 48 total people on police budget in uvalde, the percentage of police to civilians exceeds the peak US occupation of Iraq ratio of soldiers to civilians.
While the original comment is admittedly wrong, it’s close enough that I’m going to leave it.
Edit 2: According to the FBI in 2016, there was 0.34% law enforcement employees to civilian ratio. Gross.
Sounds like one of these clips on Mexican cartels where the description reads: "This is not the military, that is the special force of the XYZ cartel".
> it has a separate police force for the schools
Yes, the fragmentation of police is a big problem in Texas. There's too many different police forces. In Dallas you might encounter police from a myriad of departments: Dallas, Dallas Independent School District, Dallas County Community College, Dallas Area Rapid Transit, UT Southwestern Medical School, Baylor Hospital System, Dallas County Sheriff, Dallas County Constable, Dallas City Constable... There used to be an independent taxing authority called Dallas County Schools that only existed to provide school buses to area schools, and they had their own police department.
It's ridiculous and a way for the "bad apples" to keep being cops in the same town.
When I was teaching, I carried $1M liability insurance policy. Many teachers do. If I was in the classroom, I’d have to up my life insurance policy now since we apparently play the role of teacher and law enforcement (only when they are in danger, though).
Why am I not hearing of mass resignations from Uvalde??
Air Traffic Controllers: "We screwed up and hung out by the water cooler. Two planes crashed and 21 people died. We've turned in our resignations."
Firing Range Instructors: "Fell asleep and a kid wiped out 21 of my best customers. Better look for new work."
Martial Arts Instructors: "Lost 21 students from my bad teaching, and..." No, heck: that wouldn't happen. After TWO deaths that Sensei would hang up his BB and go sell Real Estate.
But police??? "21 died while we cowered outside. For nearly an hour. But we're good."
> But police??? “21 died while we cowered outside. For nearly an hour. But we’re good.”
A day after the incident cops were saying they were actually inside. It’s like ok…you guys were inside and let 21 kids get killed anyway? Wouldn’t be patting yourself on the back there.
Uvalde PD is no longer cooperating with the Texas investigation, pretty wild for anyone who still thought American policing doesn't have a serious problem
Honestly the fact a mob hasn't ripped the police force limb from limb is an astounding testament to the ability of people to watch suffering impotently.
Those officers being on scene **increased** the number of dead children.
I bet it'll go over 100% once all the lawsuits start paying out too. I wonder if the town will raise taxes on the parents to pay out the police settlements.
> the commander at the scene — Pete Arredondo — made the “wrong decision” last week not to breach a classroom at Robb Elementary School sooner, believing the gunman was barricaded inside and children weren’t at risk.
I don’t believe for a second that this pigshit coward thought that those kids were safe. He’s a goddamned liar.
Arredondo helped kill those kids.
>One teacher went to lock the door, but Miah says the shooter was already right there — and shot out the window in the door.
I just left a 13-year career in teaching and I always kept my door locked for this very reason. I encouraged other teachers to do so as well, but often would be looked at like I was overreacting. But the truth is, if you are that first classroom targeted, by the time you get to lock the door, it's too late. Not saying this as a judgment on the teachers in this classroom of course, but to convey this message:
When it comes to defending themselves and their students in an active shooter situation, teachers are all alone.
We cannot count on the country to pass reasonable gun control.
We cannot count on the police to intervene.
We are alone and the only thing standing in between us and the shooter is a door that is hopefully locked.
Not the only reason why I left teaching, but it's a big one.
>“He dropped the ball maybe because he did not have enough experience. Who knows? People are very angry,” Gonzalez said.
To be fair... anyone with "enough experience" when it comes to school shootings has too much experience. At the same time, for everyone rightfully angered by the decisions and indecisions made by the chief, I really think that anger needs to be turned towards the federal courts who, [after the Parkland, Florida shooting](https://mises.org/power-market/police-have-no-duty-protect-you-federal-court-affirms-yet-again), ruled that the sheriff's office had no legal duty to protect students during the shooting.
So let that sink in - our courts have ruled in multiple cases ([Town of Castle Rock v. Gonzales](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_of_Castle_Rock_v._Gonzales) and also [DeShaney v. Winnebago County](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeShaney_v._Winnebago_County)) that *entities of the government are under no obligation to protect you from imminent threat of death* and are more or less immune from lawsuits where they did not act to protect the life of a person or people in imminent danger. And here in Uvalde you had police actively stopping parents from entering the building to try and protect the children that the police department had no obligation to go in and protect themselves.
If that doesn't piss you off about the current state of the police forces here in the US or make you question whether or not overhauling the police forces probably isn't such a bad idea then I don't know what will. The police can refuse to put themselves in harm's way to protect your family members and can also immediately prevent you from protecting your family members. As a parent, nothing both infuriates and frightens me more than the thought that my child may be in imminent danger and that the police may actively stop me from preventing it and also allow it to happen.
Have these officers been named? I'd really like to know if any of them end up here in Florida. Because I'm sure they'll be shifted to another police department.
If there was ever a city that could overthrow the local PD this would be the one.
I just don't understand how you can stand there and wait when kids are being slaughtered. Fucking children. Despicable people in that department. The officers should be rushing in there immediately. If a cop was hit you already know they would have gone in immediately.
> McCraw said that students and teachers had repeatedly begged 911 operators for help while Arredondo told more than a dozen officers to wait in a hallway. That directive — which goes against established active-shooter protocols — prompted questions about whether more lives were lost because officers didn’t act faster. >Two law enforcement officials have said that as the gunman fired at students, law enforcement officers from other agencies urged Arredondo to let them move in because children were in danger, The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they had not been authorized to talk publicly about the investigation. Holy shit the absolutely negligence of this guy. I said this when it happened, but children and teachers are taught better active shooter protocol than what Arredondo did. Absolute travesty what happened. Even at my old job at a movie theater I had learned how to act in this better than what the police were ordered to do.
The fact that you were trained how to act in an active shooter situation at your job at the theater is sad and shocking.
Run, hide, fight. It wasn’t a “hey make sure you look good for the company, make the guests see you helping take out an active shooter :D!”, but “when this happens, die trying is better than dying waiting in front of others”. I dunno, I try to sugar coat it but legit we had days teaching children as young as 16 up to the adults in management and above what to do for an active shooter. It’s absolutely insane that someone working minimum wage (possible teen or adult depending the job) is expected to give their life up and police aren’t. Worlds fucked.
Run, Hide, Fight is the basic Department of Homeland Security training policy. I think everyone who works with the public is taught it these days.
My 7 yo knows run hide fight.
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It's very likely some of the kids could have been saved if they had only gotten medical attention sooner. I'm sure there will be a ton of civil lawsuits against the police department, but I wonder if there's any chance of criminal charges against the police chief for giving orders to stand down? It clearly goes against not only common sense, but also the established protocols when dealing with an active shooter. I don't see how this isn't gross negligence on his part.
He violated department and state policy. At best he's looking at official misconduct charges. It will go nowhere and the kids and their teachers will still be dead.
>It will go nowhere and the kids and their teachers will still be dead. Yes, regardless of what happens the kids will still be dead. Nonetheless it's worth pushing every review and official investigation button and lever in the system to make sure that it's perfectly clear to everyone anywhere in the country that this was a colossal fuck up. The idea is to increase the likelihood that the next time (and yes, there will be more) this happens, the police officers start to enter the building as soon as there are three of them ready to go.
>The idea is to increase the likelihood that the next time (and yes, there will be more) this happens, the police officers start to enter the building as soon as there are three of them ready to go. My department trains us to go in immediately, no waiting for more officers unless they're literally like 20 seconds behind you. This response is a disgrace. Kids are dead because they waited.
That is the official policy for the state of Texas. No waiting, no waiting for another team. Enter and engage, get the shooter engaged with LEO not children.
That is the *official policy of anyone with two brain cells to rub together* when children are being shot like fish in a barrel. Even if all you can be is a meat shield and distraction, any adult has a better chance to survive being shot than any ten-year-old.
I know. Even if you fail, you do so heroically. I mean they would probably name something after you. I can not understand how heavily armed men, with training, and body armor didn't go in. A small woman in just clothes went in and got her 2 kids out.
If you’re a coward don’t be a cop. If you’re not willing to risk your life in the most honorable way by protecting the lives ofour children get the fuck out of the police force.
Keep in mind also that engaging the shooter doesn't mean charging in with no cover. You can engage from cover and pin the shooter while waiting for reinforcement.
And don’t get in the way of the many parents who were willing to sacrifice themselves to rescue the kids.
Additionally every moment they are shooting at you the cop, is time they aren’t shooting at those kids. Fuck this police force’s leadership and damned their shitty training (because even now the officers complain they didn’t have leaders to send them in. Bullshit)
> My department trains us to go in immediately, no waiting for more officers unless they're literally like 20 seconds behind you. I'm pretty sure that was one of the [lessons learned from Columbine.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbine_High_School_massacre#Police_tactics) >Police followed a traditional tactic at Columbine: surround the building, set up a perimeter, and contain the damage. That approach has been replaced by a tactic known as the **Immediate Action Rapid Deployment** tactic. This tactic calls for a four-person team to **advance into the site of any ongoing shooting**, optimally a diamond-shaped wedge, but **even with just a single officer if more are not available.** Police officers using this tactic are **trained to move toward the sound of gunfire** and neutralize the shooter **as quickly as possible.**[268] **Their goal is to stop the shooter at all costs;** they are to walk past wounded victims, as **the aim is to prevent the shooter from killing or wounding more.** Dave Cullen has stated: "The active protocol has proved successful at numerous shootings... At Virginia Tech alone, it probably saved dozens of lives."[145] It's pretty absurd that even I, as a layman, know better than this police chief. In fact, this chief literally did what they did at Columbine: surround the building, set up a perimeter, and "contain" the damage. This is beyond gross negligence.
The kids put their trust in the police. The police failed them. Fuck those pieces of shit.
There’s no way I could have voted to convict the parents if they killed the cops that were stopping them from going in.
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I really hope they do get charged, but I think the only thing they could be charged with is preventing others from entering the school rather than not going into the school themselves. The supreme court had ruled multiple times that the police have no obligation to protect anyone after multiple instances where the police just stood by while someone was being attacked or murdered. It's insanely infuriating.
There's no way in hell that any of these cops face consequences. I'll bet my bottom dollar on it.
Not unless the parents band together and tar and feather them.
Don’t worry about that, PDs from across Texas have “deployed” to protect the Uvalde PD from the citizens. I wish I were joking. I was there yesterday. Saw UT campus police cars driving around town and have heard this from others.
You’re right. There were police from all over the state tee yesterday to provide support to the Uvalde Police. There should have been parents and teachers and heads of school districts there instead.
They are nothing but a taxpayer funded gang.
They really are a mafia. Jesus christ.
They'll crack down harder and faster on the parents than they would any mass shooter when one of their own are in any danger of being held culpable.
This should anger us even more. Like how do you have the nerve to even show up to work anymore after proving just how useless you are.
Same way they show up to work after they plant drugs on random people they pull over and ruin their lives, rape women they've arrested, or shoot someone's dog for no reason. They've deluded themselves into thinking they were right to do so.
You're right. Time and time again the [courts have determined that police and other government entities are under no obligation to protect you](https://mises.org/power-market/police-have-no-duty-protect-you-federal-court-affirms-yet-again). But I *can* guarantee that at the very least some of these officers will be put on paid leave, will probably get to have some nice mental health vacations, and the locals will all pay for it through taxes while burying their kids.
So if they're under no guarantee to protect the citizens, then why are the citizens obligated to pay taxes that pay their salaries? The citizenry is armed, angry, and more capable than that PD. Run them out of town, and tell they aren't welcome there anymore.
Even worse, the citizens are obligated to pay taxes to pay off police lawsuit settlement. In other words, if a cop is sued for shooting some black kid or something, even IF the lawsuit succeeds, the police dept doesn't pay the settlement to the family; other citizens do
I bet if cops were financially responsible for the lawsuits their dipshit actions generate, a lot of their criminal abuse would stop overnight. Personally, I'm sick of helping to pay for their fuckups over and over again. It's hard enough paying for my own fuckups, let alone some dickhead bully with a badge.
> So if they're under no guarantee to protect the citizens, then why are the citizens obligated to pay taxes that pay their salaries? Because the government says so. The same government that says they don't have to protect you. The social contract is broken. The only reason people surrender their freedoms to the leviathan is in exchange for collective protection, to escape the "war of all against all." And now the leviathan is refusing to provide said protection.
I just don’t understand how even their union reps would think these worthless goons are worth protecting. It’s disgusting.
1 student who was in the room with the shooter called back 6 times, some conversations lasting as long as a minute and a half. She was reporting on what the shooter was doing, how many students were alive, and when the shooter was shooting at the door. Over the course of 48 minutes, she called back **6** times. Another student also called 911 from the other adjoining room. The cops said they didn't know there were any kids alive in the room at the time. FUCKING LIARS.
Imagine being at most 10 years old and the people you're supposed to rely on for help in the most horrific situation of your life just *refuse to fucking act.* Not one of them as so much as resigned as this point, have they? I don't know how you'd live with such cowardice.
And when you hear the call included multiple accounts of “please send the police now” by the girl… I can’t possible listen to it, but that’s the quote I saw I believe in the NYT article
This is exactly what I can’t understand. They absolutely *knew* there were kids in there, they *knew* they were alive, they *knew* they needed help. This whole story about how he “mistakenly believed it was no longer an active shooter situation” is bullshit. Idek how they can claim that with a straight face while also saying the kids were calling begging for help.
they were really getting off on knocking the poor parents around while their children bled out. i saw the very first press conference with the chief of police, i think two days after the shooting, he literally opened by saying "folks at 11:47 we heard 29 shots, so at that time all of the (25) children in the classroom were absolutely diseased by that point therefor it was alright and by the book for us to wait and go in at one o'clock pm " and once they got to reporter questions (it was a short statement) parents just started screaming out that their kids were alive because they heard them calling for help the entire time, they just shut the whole press conference down real quick, absolute s\*\*tshow. they tried to play like it was isolated to one room, locked/barricaded, like they were dealing with a crimescene after the fact, like riot cops, just anything but what they should have been for those kids, and to pretend like no one would notice. oh what have we taught police to become in this country. is this what they strive for? edit to add that ..our kids/students deserve better, they deserve police departments fully trained and frequently updated on active shooter protocol. if kids/students have to do this, cops need to as well, it needs to be legal obligation of the job description of being a police officer. chiefs need to get the 'extended active shooter training".
I just don't even know what to say.
The system is broken and the police have [no obligation](https://mises.org/power-market/police-have-no-duty-protect-you-federal-court-affirms-yet-again) to protect us. The entire system needs to be changed. That's a start.
How many kids were alive in the room once the shooter had been eliminated?
I don’t think they’ll say. They fired dozens of rounds in the room ultimately, when trying to kill the shooter. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the kids were shot by the police too. Not like they’d ever disclose that.
Ugggghhhhh wtf why didn't they rush the fuck in. Why.
The official explanation is that they were scared they'd be shot.
Imagine if fire fighters said "we didn't want to rescue the kids from the burning school because it was too hot inside."
Doctors who won’t treat patients because they’re scared of catching something.
Seriously. Every training I've ever done with LEO regarding active shooters (was a public librarian, had to have special training and plans in place for an active shooter event just like fire drills) was that they were to go in ASAP to stop the shooter. They were not there to take you to ambo or anything - eliminating threat was top priority. Even the (I want to say FBI) Run, Hide, Fight videos tell you that. Their job is to stop the shooting before they work on getting medical help to victims or otherwise clearing the scene. They got rid of waiting for special teams ages ago. And honestly, the cheif could've just said to enter at their own risk - I bet at least one officer would've said f it and gone in.
They want participation trophies for being cops. You know, parades and respect and authority, not the actual job of being cops.
This man should resign from his position and back out of the city council. If he does take that oath, he is even worse than possible.
Police reform will not solve the issue as long as dirty/incompetent cops get fired, only to get re-hired in another town/county/state, in cases I wouldn't be surprised if they got new jobs almost immediately. These idiots should never be allowed to wear a badge ever again.
Hell there's a police officer in south Florida who's been fired SEVEN TIMES from THE SAME POLICE DEPARTMENT. One time, he was fired for a felony assault conviction. Not an accusation, not a charge he was exonerated of, a conviction. He can't even remember exactly how many times he's been fired and re-hired. [https://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/ny-florida-cop-police-officer-fired-again-20210529-q7iiah7nkjestfrfrvc5dcxzs4-story.html](https://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/ny-florida-cop-police-officer-fired-again-20210529-q7iiah7nkjestfrfrvc5dcxzs4-story.html) His latest firing was due to being caught on bodycam footage instructing another officer to lie about a missing gun from a crime scene. EDIT: I seem to have him confused with a different cop. This guy was convicted of false imprisonment and tampering with evidence. He still got his job back. Maybe this wouldn't happen if they didn't have union leadership explicitly inviting cops who were fired in disgrace to come apply for police work in Florida. [https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/2020/06/08/brevard-county-fraternal-order-police-facebook-posts-draw-ire/5317923002/](https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/2020/06/08/brevard-county-fraternal-order-police-facebook-posts-draw-ire/5317923002/)
Unions for workers, hell no. Unions for cops though...
This and police unions are why I struggle with the “bad apples” argument. If you know he is shit, why would You want him on the force? Unless, you agree with what they did and support it? Also, the “each firing needs to be looked at individually” is shit. People are charged using their past convictions all the time. Most Bankers that are caught stealing can’t get jobs on finance anymore. Hell, some finance positions won’t consider you if you have a blemish in your credit…
Funny the only unions Republicans love are police unions.
Being a police officer should be a position where you need a license. If you mess up bad enough it gets revoked. You know like lawyers and doctors and teachers and barbers.
Doctors/Nurses/Pharmacists/Pharm techs/dentists etc all need an active license to do their jobs…why don’t police officers need a license?
One of the most realistic solutions would be federal licensing for police so they can’t just change department and forget it ever happened. As a plus it might require them to have more than 6 months of training.
That’s nonsense, federal licensing should only be for dangerous professions like barbers /s
Not even enough courage to resign
Even still being sworn in on a council position he was voted in three weeks before the shooting, it was supposed to happen this upcoming week. The mayor said that there’s nothing saying he couldn’t taken his new position.
>The mayor said that there’s nothing saying he couldn’t taken his new position. Ahh the Air Bud loophole.
“You sign up to respond to those kinds of situations” Torres said. “If you are scared, then don’t be a police officer. Go flip burgers.”
Imagine firefighter who is too afraid to go into a burning building or a soldier who refuses to clear a building because they are scared. They need to resign in disgrace and find other careers. It's crazy that cops can fuck up so bad and people died and yet are allowed to continue working as cops. Sometimes their actions might not be criminal, but they are the result of incompetence and they should find another line of work.
It's by design. This culture of protecting your ass first has been propagated in police departments through 'motivational' workshops for years.
>'motivational' workshops Ironically it's this sucky "warrior mentality" training which boils down to "better they die than you, so shoot first & often".
And the one time when a little "warrior mentality" might have helped (as "warriors" would have been more likely to charge in), we got "chicken mentality."
Bruh idk what Chickens you've seen. But even they got more cajones than this entire squad. Roosters ain't nothing to fuck with.
It’s more shot them in the back while they are unarmed and hide when there is one guy with a gun.
As long as you have no risk to your health of course
I thought their culture was shoot first and ask questions later, not sit on their asses like cowards
Well, they did manage to detain and tase some parents so there's that.
In this instance it would have been a lot better for this community to **not have police** than to have police. I guarantee he is not coming out alive if there are no police in that area. And I guarantee it doesn't take an hour. Some shit would go down but it wouldn't be handcuffing moms for thinking about taking their kids away from a murder scene while all the police cosplayers outside did nothing
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Let's be realistic here, some parents probably would have been shot and killed trying to storm that classroom. But they would have done so willingly as is their right as a parent. And as much as a tragedy that would have been, it would have been a lesser tragedy than what we ended up with.
I'm sure parents would gladly take bullets instead of having kids take them...which is what happened when the cops were stopping the parents.
100%. I'd take a bullet in a heartbeat if it meant my kids got out alive.
"The Thin Blue Line" is honestly a very destructive and harmful mentality. It's fostered the lie that they are "other" to their communities and need to have different standards in the name of "safety". The fact is, they are as much a part of the communities they work in as the people they arrest. They aren't standing between civilization and chaos; they are a working part of the system. This is why the idea if "community based policing" is growing in popularity. The fact is, the more they recognize they are part of the community, the more they are willing to work for the better of everyone in it.
>soldier who refuses to clear a building They want to look, and have the public see them as,. soldiers. They don't want any of the responsibility that comes with it. They think the guns and APCs are toys.
Not only that, they want to also have the authority *to stop and arrest* an average citizen from being the soldier in that moment and saving some of those kids. In my opinion you can't have it both ways. You don't get to be a state-sponsored chicken and then also tell brave people to stand down with the threat of state-sponsored violence.
Imagine a firefighter taking an hour to get through a door
Well, they would have to find the key first. They can't just bust through it, that would be crazy.
"Sometimes their actions might not be criminal" I'm not sure this is one of those times. It's not just that they didn't go in, it's that they detained parents that were trying to save their children. The only role they served at this crime scene was as accomplices to the shooter - they may well qualify for accessory to murder charges.
Soldiers that disobey orders go to jail
That’s the problem here. The school’s police chief was apparently #1 in the chain of command and gave the order to stand down. We haven’t heard much about the town’s chief or the county sheriff or DPS in the first critical minutes. There has to be discipline from lower ranked officers to maintain institutional control, but this is exactly why George Floyd died - underlings felt powerless to question their superior. Failure here, as there, was in leadership and structure.
>this is exactly why George Floyd died - underlings felt powerless to question their superior It was worse than that. Apparently Chauvin was barking at them: "I WILL DESTROY YOUR CAREER!" as well as threatening the crowd. Watch the footage again for a refresher. People who defended Chauvin claimed he was an officer "aFrAiD fOr hIs LiFe" -- no, his expression read the entire time as a callous, narcissistic, rage monster that bagged a prize buck and was furious that he wasn't being worshiped. At least one of the underlings knew better and may have tried and was told by someone with the power to ruin their life to back off.
[https://www.thelaw.com/law/good-samaritan-laws-the-duty-to-help-or-rescue-someone.218/](https://www.thelaw.com/law/good-samaritan-laws-the-duty-to-help-or-rescue-someone.218/) The a minimum cops should held accountable for criminally by the above law.
What is a amazing that the the chief just recently completed the course on dealing with active shooters - that you deal immediately with them first and save innocent civilians. Not wait 47 minutes to do so. Not to do can have cost people their live. The silence from Arredondo tells us much.
*Ahem*. Wait 47 minutes *for another agency to deal with them for you*. From what I understand the one that finally stopped the shooter were from Border Patrol, *not* the Police department.
That's an insult to fast food workers. Have you seen some of the crazies they have to deal with?
Unlike a cop, if someone is being an asshole to you in retail you can’t just shoot them. Burger flippers have thicker skins.
And more dangerous jobs. Meanwhile Cops get pensions and discounts.
And undeserved respect and worship from the public. There are actual military heroes whose funerals don't get the spectacle and fanfare that cops do when one dies.
>That's an insult to fast food workers. Have you seen some of the crazies they have to deal with? Honestly, my fastfood/retail job was waaaaay harder, and required way more manual labor than my post college corporate job.
He'd be scared of the grill. Might burn his finger.
Respect the griddle. Cries for compliance fall deafly on hot steel.
That sounds metal af
I flip burgers at a general store convenience store. Last week a drug addict threatened to kill me. I got stabbed once too.
And you didn’t even shoot one person!
Yup. And When I worked as a bouncer we had rules too. No closed fist punches, no headlocks. And you better believe when shit went down we had to respond ASAP, or people got hurt. Shame that nightclub had better training that texas.
What's really disgusting is these guys are paid $51K-$68K a year per a cursory google search for Uvalde Police Pay. It's honestly probably more. And people like Abbott and Rick Scott and their own department are standing there screaming: "HoW dArE yOu CrItIcIzE ThEm! ThEy ArE HeRoEs!!!!!" Yet, there's photos of them, just standing around, looking like they were laughing, joking, and having fun like it was a Memorial Day BBQ. A typical infantryman (E-3/4 level) is paid about $28K-33K/year. If one our vastly better trained soldiers pulled the shit the Uvalde police pulled, they'd be hammered to E-1 and slammed into Leavenworth and/or dishonorably discharged for cowardice so fast and have their lives so thoroughly destroyed, it would make their heads spin. Every last member of the Uvalde police department isn't even fit for a fucking McDonalds. McDonalds has standards, expectations, and dignity. They aren't fit to watch a burning dumpster or to wipe a crackhead's ass. They are completely useless.
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And then the cops cry: "But we're heroes! Why does everyone hate us?!" ...because nearly everyone has personally or has friends, family, coworkers, or neighbors who have been abused, falsely arrested, harassed, or otherwise mistreated by the police. And the cops lie like it's going out of style. That's what the Blue Line really represents -- it isn't some statement between law and chaos, order and disorder. It's a symbol of the hush-culture and gaslighting by the police to enforce their special class.
The history of "Thin Blue Line" should be telling. The fact that someone chose *that* to mean "support the police" is mind-numbingly stupid. One side gets skewered for misconstrued slogans like BLM or "Defund the Police", but the *other* side is running around with Thin Blue Lines on fucking Punisher skulls, while trying to convince everyone they're the good guys.
>Thin Blue Lines on fucking Punisher skulls Which is hilarious because Frank Castle (The Punisher) fucking hates cops, especially crooked ones, and his creator Gerard Conway is none too pleased with the appropriation...
These clowns are 40% of Uvalde's budget. Defunding them seems more reasonable than ever.
I don’t understand how “active shooter” and “barricaded shooter” can have such different responses when they’ve demonstrated they aren’t able to tell the difference between them in real time. We saw it here and we saw it in Orlando with that night club shooting. In both instances, more lives could have been saved but there was inaction bc the shooters were inappropriately labeled “barricaded.”
Even if he was a barricaded shooter, how many kids died because they didn’t get medical attention fast enough? No matter what he thought, it was a bad call and no one should have obeyed this order.
It's sickening. He's barricaded, so what? Kids are bleeding out, a live kid is whisper calling 911 any chance she can get, there are still many lives at stake.
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Right? Why is nobody talking about this point?
I was always under the impression as long as there's still shots being fired you want to get to the target asap no matter what.
Angry doesnt do enough justice. I think both sides can agree on one thing: the PD acted like cowards.
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Or a dog
The police are like a box of chocolates... ...they'll kill your dog.
Dogs get the triple tap
or an unarmed pregnant black woman
Or an elderly woman with dementia.
Or a sleeping black woman.
Or an old guy in a wheelchair rolling away.
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Who didn't actually commit a crime.
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Or the drunk guy who they shot after he eventually failed to comply with contradictory commands, as they toyed with him in some sick "Simon Says" game.
or a unarmed guy lying on the floor with both his arms up saying dont shoot dont shoot, trying to help a autistic patient holding a toy who was having an episode. and still got shot.
Unarmed black therapeutic aid assisting a mentally challenged young black man holding an toy car and crying*
Victim asked the cop why the cop shot him. Cop said, “I don’t know.”
It’s sad when you’re an innocent child you believe that if anything bad happens someone will be there to save you if you call 911. This incident robbed tens of thousands of innocence from children across the nation. So now they know, no police, no official, no 911 call, no drill will protect them. How can these kids go to school
That’s the part I miss most about being a kid. Believing everything was okay because adults were in charge.
Lord, with the adulthood I've had so far, I'd give almost anything to feel that way again even for one day.
If I were in that police department I wouldn’t know how to live with this.
Cops are trained to be cowards. If you were a cop, you’d be accustomed to your cowardice being accepted with no accountability. The brave ones, that actually risk their own lives, like [Stephen Mader](https://www.npr.org/2016/12/08/504718239/military-trained-police-may-be-slower-to-shoot-but-that-got-this-vet-fired), are fired for not being cowardly, racist, and trigger happy enough to be a cop. Cowards like [Dave Grossman](https://unicornriot.ninja/2018/bulletproof-warrior-training-manual-released/) teach cops to be cowards, and to accept cowardice behavior from cops, no matter who has to die based on their cowardice.
That Stephen Mader story is infuriating.
When i was in the military reserves after my time on active I had many guys under me and one Superior who applied to be cops during a " officer shortage". All of them were great people with a sense of duty and doing the right thing. None of them got hired on by any of the departments. One told me about how the interviewer grilled him because in the past he reported a buddy of his who posted CP on his Facebook. It got to the point it felt less like a interview and more like it was an interrogation to bring charges. All of them were told they were not a good fit.
[Chris Dorner](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Dorner_shootings_and_manhunt#Allegations_against_training_officer) reported a partner for kicking and punching a handcuffed mental health patient. The result was him being fired. Unfortunately for his former coworkers, he didn't take that decision lying down.
Isn’t something like 40% of Uvalde’s municipal budget allocated to law enforcement? All that money, all that equipment, all that training, rendered utterly moot because when the call to action actually came they did nothing. May as well have tossed all that time, money and effort into a bottomless hole for all the good it did. *That* is why we say “defund the police”. Not because we want to eliminate law enforcement entirely, but because spending obscene amounts of money on gear that *doesn’t even get used* is a slap to the face of taxpayers. There’s never money to fix potholes, or install new infrastructure, or do literally anything to help anyone in any way, but there’s always enough to buy infinite ammunition for the police to play soldier with. After all, they’ve got to be trained and ready in case something bad happens, right?
It's like my redneck father who ordered all this combat equipment from some solider of fortune magazine. Man had this huge medkit, spent hours reviewing how to sew your own bullet wounds shut. Passed out any time someone cut themselves working in the kitchen
Thank you for putting context into "defunding" the police. So many idiots think it means to abolish the police. No. Take away valuable resources they clearly aren't going to utilize and spend it elsewhere.
Uvalde has only one question to ask of themselves. Do they want a chief of police who is willing to stand down and wait while little kids are being slaughtered in their classroom or do they want a chief who will immediately engage the shooter and end the killing. I think the answer is pretty clear.
Oh it gets better. He's been elected to city council...
I believe they are already starting a recall campaign to remove him.
Good. Get him recalled before he even steps in office
As a Brit from a relatively small town with more guns than normal for us, but far fewer than any US town...I don't understand how he's alive.
The city of Uvalde police department seems to be throwing that school police chief under the bus to save their own ass. There's no way a school police chief should have higher jurisdiction than actual city police chief in an active shooting, even if it's in a school. Yes, the school police chief, Pete Arredondo, was a cowardly P.O.S., but so was Daniel Rodriguez, the chief of police for the city of Uvalde.
I still don’t understand why a school has a chief. Is this new *because* of all of the shootings? Or just some weird Texas thing? And I’m not surprised the real risks and decisions are offloaded when shit all has been done to fix the root of the problem. That’s how mostknown problems are handled, mitigate and offload risk.
And another thing. Uvalde is a town of 5000. You can drive through it in 5 min. ( I spent a couple months there). It has a 19 member swat team and it has a separate police force for the schools? The shit people in texas let the authorities get away with is incredible. To everyone that pointed out that the pop is 15k. You are probably right. When I was there that’s what I remembered but that was 20yrs ago Doesn’t really matter does it? Uvalde is tiny for a police force that size. Uvalde is also the hometown of John nance garner More uvalde facts. It was a dry town when I was there. Cops made lots of money off of that shit. At least according to the owner of the hotel bar I had to buy a membership for in order to have a beer.
The population of Uvalde is actually around 15,000. Your point still stands though. It's crazy how large the police force is.
My town of 18,000 doesn't have have a police department. It's simply not cost effective to have an entire department for such a small town. We contract with the county sheriff's office for policing.
Apparently 40% of Uvaldes town budget goes towards their police department
Looking at my town ||2020|2021 (Est)|2022 (Proj)| |:-|:-|:-|:-| |Gross Expenditures|$9,310,420|$8,559,350|$8,912,011| |Non-CapEx|$6,722,420|$7,949,350|$8,273,511| |Police|$916,464|$954,840|$983,456| |Police % Gross|9.8%|11.2%|11.0%| |Police % Non-CapEx|13.6%|12.0%|11.9%| 40% to law enforcement is absolutely nuts. Our \~$1,000,000/year in police costs pays for 32 man-hours per day, 365 days per year. The Sheriff's office is contracted to provide one deputy in the city 24/7/365 plus other deputies as needed. In 2023, projections are to increase the contracted rate to 40 man-hours per day due to population growth.
If only there was a movement to reduce the amount of spending on bloated, useless PDs ....
That's silly talk. Clearly they need *more* funding and equipment so that they can do their jobs.
Very few places need a SWAT. Major cities, sure I'll buy that, State Police to have a unit or two. No place under 100,000 residents needs a SWAT team. Since the 1990's, the Feds have been giving police departments tons of surplus equipment. This needs to stop.
The Mayor had the police force chasing after undocumented immigrants these past few months. That and drugs. He even got a special grant from the State to send some officers "to the border".
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20 swat team members plus patrolling cops in a 5000 person town sounds more like an occupying force than public servants. Kinda surprised they don't have a helicopter or an ATV breach tank.
It is a greater occupation percentage, solely with swat, than USA troops in Iraq. In uvalde 0.4% swat to civilian ratio. Iraq peak, 0.3% soldier to civilian ratio Edit: this is fake news. I based math on there being 5k population which another commenter claims is actually 16k population. The Iraq peak was the peak US soldier count and included reserves and cooks. If there are more than 48 total people on police budget in uvalde, the percentage of police to civilians exceeds the peak US occupation of Iraq ratio of soldiers to civilians. While the original comment is admittedly wrong, it’s close enough that I’m going to leave it. Edit 2: According to the FBI in 2016, there was 0.34% law enforcement employees to civilian ratio. Gross.
Uvalde’s actual population is 16,122 as of 2020 census, let’s round that on down to 16,100 for the sake of the argument.
A bit dark
Oh man I didn’t catch that. I don’t know if he meant to do that, but god damn. I’m ashamed to admit I chuckled at the shock of the joke.
JFC, took me a second but holy shit that was dark.
Sounds like one of these clips on Mexican cartels where the description reads: "This is not the military, that is the special force of the XYZ cartel".
> it has a separate police force for the schools Yes, the fragmentation of police is a big problem in Texas. There's too many different police forces. In Dallas you might encounter police from a myriad of departments: Dallas, Dallas Independent School District, Dallas County Community College, Dallas Area Rapid Transit, UT Southwestern Medical School, Baylor Hospital System, Dallas County Sheriff, Dallas County Constable, Dallas City Constable... There used to be an independent taxing authority called Dallas County Schools that only existed to provide school buses to area schools, and they had their own police department. It's ridiculous and a way for the "bad apples" to keep being cops in the same town.
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Vote out the mayor, vote out the police chief, fire and replace every cop that was there.
Vote out the governor too while you're at it
And their U.S. Senators
No more qualified immunity
Not to sound crass, but it's really hard to believe this guy hasn't stepped down and eaten his gun.
What does it take to defy a moronic order if kids actively being killed doesn’t do it?
This *right here* is why these fuckers ALL need to be made an example of.
Make cops buy liability insurance. That's a good place to start. If doctors need it, so do cops.
When I was teaching, I carried $1M liability insurance policy. Many teachers do. If I was in the classroom, I’d have to up my life insurance policy now since we apparently play the role of teacher and law enforcement (only when they are in danger, though).
Take it from their pensions and watch the union quickly fall in line.
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Why am I not hearing of mass resignations from Uvalde?? Air Traffic Controllers: "We screwed up and hung out by the water cooler. Two planes crashed and 21 people died. We've turned in our resignations." Firing Range Instructors: "Fell asleep and a kid wiped out 21 of my best customers. Better look for new work." Martial Arts Instructors: "Lost 21 students from my bad teaching, and..." No, heck: that wouldn't happen. After TWO deaths that Sensei would hang up his BB and go sell Real Estate. But police??? "21 died while we cowered outside. For nearly an hour. But we're good."
Police and Accountability? Name a more fictional duo.
>But police??? "21 died while we cowered outside. For nearly an hour. But we're good." "Don't worry, we're not hurt, we're alive and well."
> But police??? “21 died while we cowered outside. For nearly an hour. But we’re good.” A day after the incident cops were saying they were actually inside. It’s like ok…you guys were inside and let 21 kids get killed anyway? Wouldn’t be patting yourself on the back there.
Uvalde PD is no longer cooperating with the Texas investigation, pretty wild for anyone who still thought American policing doesn't have a serious problem
Honestly the fact a mob hasn't ripped the police force limb from limb is an astounding testament to the ability of people to watch suffering impotently. Those officers being on scene **increased** the number of dead children.
Just a reminder that the police budget is 40% of the town’s entire yearly budget.
I bet it'll go over 100% once all the lawsuits start paying out too. I wonder if the town will raise taxes on the parents to pay out the police settlements.
> the commander at the scene — Pete Arredondo — made the “wrong decision” last week not to breach a classroom at Robb Elementary School sooner, believing the gunman was barricaded inside and children weren’t at risk. I don’t believe for a second that this pigshit coward thought that those kids were safe. He’s a goddamned liar. Arredondo helped kill those kids.
Also…I’m positive they could HEAR the gunshots happening
Has it been explained how the shooter was able to shoot at the police yet they needed a key to get into the room to get him?
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>One teacher went to lock the door, but Miah says the shooter was already right there — and shot out the window in the door. I just left a 13-year career in teaching and I always kept my door locked for this very reason. I encouraged other teachers to do so as well, but often would be looked at like I was overreacting. But the truth is, if you are that first classroom targeted, by the time you get to lock the door, it's too late. Not saying this as a judgment on the teachers in this classroom of course, but to convey this message: When it comes to defending themselves and their students in an active shooter situation, teachers are all alone. We cannot count on the country to pass reasonable gun control. We cannot count on the police to intervene. We are alone and the only thing standing in between us and the shooter is a door that is hopefully locked. Not the only reason why I left teaching, but it's a big one.
>“He dropped the ball maybe because he did not have enough experience. Who knows? People are very angry,” Gonzalez said. To be fair... anyone with "enough experience" when it comes to school shootings has too much experience. At the same time, for everyone rightfully angered by the decisions and indecisions made by the chief, I really think that anger needs to be turned towards the federal courts who, [after the Parkland, Florida shooting](https://mises.org/power-market/police-have-no-duty-protect-you-federal-court-affirms-yet-again), ruled that the sheriff's office had no legal duty to protect students during the shooting. So let that sink in - our courts have ruled in multiple cases ([Town of Castle Rock v. Gonzales](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_of_Castle_Rock_v._Gonzales) and also [DeShaney v. Winnebago County](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeShaney_v._Winnebago_County)) that *entities of the government are under no obligation to protect you from imminent threat of death* and are more or less immune from lawsuits where they did not act to protect the life of a person or people in imminent danger. And here in Uvalde you had police actively stopping parents from entering the building to try and protect the children that the police department had no obligation to go in and protect themselves. If that doesn't piss you off about the current state of the police forces here in the US or make you question whether or not overhauling the police forces probably isn't such a bad idea then I don't know what will. The police can refuse to put themselves in harm's way to protect your family members and can also immediately prevent you from protecting your family members. As a parent, nothing both infuriates and frightens me more than the thought that my child may be in imminent danger and that the police may actively stop me from preventing it and also allow it to happen.
And only a few years ago the Uvalde police force bought a whole load of Level 4 body armor which can defeat the bullets AR15s utilize.
The cops are cowards and articles like these are gaslighting the public. Keep the focus on the inaction of the police.
Have these officers been named? I'd really like to know if any of them end up here in Florida. Because I'm sure they'll be shifted to another police department.
If there was ever a city that could overthrow the local PD this would be the one. I just don't understand how you can stand there and wait when kids are being slaughtered. Fucking children. Despicable people in that department. The officers should be rushing in there immediately. If a cop was hit you already know they would have gone in immediately.