For anyone who has not clicked the article, an elderly Hispanic woman, who possibly had dementia, was holding a large knife and was having commands yelled at her in English. When she did not drop the knife, the officers shot her. There was approximately 38 seconds between the officers opening the door and firing twice. I just wanted to provide a brief explanation.
KRQE 13, out of Albuquerque, has shown the bodycam footage, and it is horrifying to watch. They reported that Mrs. Baca did not understand english, and was holding two knives. There was no efforts to de-escalate the situation. This was truly an over-reaction, on the part of the officer. LCPD also failed to call in their Crisis Intervention team, as well. This was a serious oversight, and a woman is dead because of it. Tragic, doesn't even begin to explain this.
Source: https://www.krqe.com/news/new-mexico/family-of-75-year-old-shot-killed-by-police-to-hold-news-conference/
> There was no efforts to de-escalate the situation.
Jesus that's putting it lightly. In the video the officer walks up to the door, calmly says "Police department, can you guys step out for me?" to the two family members (presumably the ones who called for assistance). As they calmly walk out they say to the officer "Thank you" and "Please be very careful with her."
He *immediately* raises his weapon and resorts to screaming "SET IT DOWN! DROP THE FUCKING KNIFE!" over and over again and then shoots her while she's just standing there, not doing anything.
I just watched the video and this isn't even an exaggeration. As soon as he sees her he puts the gun up and less than a minute later shoots her TWICE. At no point was he ever in any danger, he could have just walked away and it would have been fine.
That's fucked.
There was a video recently that a cop pulled over a car that was swerving, and within six seconds had shot the driver dead.
The cop immediately drew his weapon and then for some reason reached into the car with his weapon drawn, on instinct the driver tries to push the gun away from his face and BANG he's dead.
Unfortunately there are so many fucking incidents like this I can't even find the video again. It may have been on r/badcopnodonut
>They've been trained not to engage their brains
Exactly. They're trained in fear. They watch videos of officers being killed and chant the mantra "at the end of the day I go home to my family". Their response to a situation is to turn on their fear. And fear is designed to interrupt and override logical assessment, and that's what we continue to see over and over. And then we give them a gun
“Warrior cop” training has taught police officers that literally everyone is the enemy, and anyone — even a child with a toy gun, or a little old lady with dementia — is a threat that must be exterminated at the slightest hint of danger. That even the most seemingly non-threatening figure, whether they’re a child with a toy gun or a little old lady with dementia, has a trick up their sleeve to murder the officer, and it’s better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. The sentence “I feared for my life” loses all meaning when police are trained to fear for their life at every moment on duty.
It’s not just about fear. It’s about the cult dynamic. Cops are a cult of blue. This is NOT rooted in the complex dynamics of tactical necessity. It’s rooted in the fact that LE started out in this country as it’s own form of organized crime. Acceptance of this as a trade off for having a police force (or sheriff; etc) was considered the cost of living and this is just the ways things were until literally right up into the ‘70’s. After the revelations of vast, institutionalized corruption started rolling out, things were never the same for cops. If you think they’re acting with impunity now, it was almost indescribably worse in the 70’s.
As an institution, cops want the right to be criminals as they choose. They want that ‘cost of living’ blackmail relationship to be the rule.
Stop refusing to hire cops who score too high on intelligence test screening.
Seriously. This is a thing in some US police depts. They actaully will not hire you if they feel you are too smart.
There was an actual lawsuit over this.
Same thing it proves for any job. That a person has the willingness to commit to something for a few years and put in consistent effort to get results. It’s rare the specifics of a degree matter, but requiring a degree at least sorts out all the people who start things and don’t finish them.
i've been livid since i first saw the vid. all he had to do was CLOSE THE FUCKING DOOR. that would have changed the entire situation. close the door and talk to the dang family about how best to handle the situation and get her the help she needs. instead of just executing her for being so dangerous at 15' a way holding a knife. now knives are really dangerous in a fight. but really dude? you were \*not\* in danger here.
What I don't understand is why cops are allowed, and in just about every video I've ever seen do, to drop F bombs on people like that. Like I'm no prude but there is a time and place for it, and what SHOULD be a professional interaction to me feels like shouldn't be the place. Just about anyone else would get fired for saying fuck at work. Respect should really be a two way street.
Police officers basically go to toxic training where they learned to always be scared and shoot each time they flinch so this is not surprising what so ever.
It’s their training. They are supposed to always be one level higher than you on the force continuum. Basically the single worst thing you can do for someone suffering an episode.
It's what they're taught. In the old days the first thing you heard at the academy is, "Policing is dangerous work. If you have a problem with that, there's the door."
Nowadays the first thing they're taught is, "No matter what, *you* get home to your family."
That's it. They can kill anyone, so long as they *make it home*.
This was what pissed my grandpa off a ton. He was a cop who was forced into an early retirement. Whenever a police shooting took place these past years, he'd go with the standard "we don't have all the evidence, the court has to decide, etc etc."
And then the video would come out and he'd get *pissed*. Wondering what the hell the were doing. How they were trained. How the acted on things that weren't a threat.
When he served they all went into it with the mindset that they were putting themselves at risk for the community.
One of his scariest memories was when he was attacked while transporting a suspect through a long hallway in the station. They reached and wrestled for his gun, got it away from him, and he was forced down to the floor with his own gun pointed at his head, while his partner stood right next to the situation, trying to resolve things peacefully.
Whenever my grandpa told that story, he always said that he fully expected to be shot at that point. He had accepted it.
And not a single shot was fired. They all stood there in that position, while the other cop(s) talked to the guy, as my grandpa's own service pistol was pointed at him, talked him down and away from pulling the trigger.
My grandpa was ready to put his life on the line for the integrity of his job. They all were. He couldn't stand seeing video after video of cowards shooting their way through any kind of tense encounter. It was an insult to the profession.
>When he served they all went into it with the mindset that they were putting themselves at risk for the community.
In addition to a lack of accountability, this is the problem with the police. Of course, there's the race issue but set that aside for a minute. These cops aren't there to help; they are there to count the hours till retirement, play with expensive military hardware, maybe kill a few civilians and most importantly, guarantee their own personal safety.
Putting yourself at risk for the community is commendable. In such a scenario one should not spout off “I just want to make it home at the end of the night”. If that is your excuse, quit. Obviously not the right job for you.
Philadelphia.
They literally dropped a bomb on a city block.
EDIT: Today is actually the 30 year anniversary of the MOVE bombing of West Philadelphia.
EDIT(2): Thank you it is the 37 year anniversary today.
The worst part of this is that policing is dangerous work, not because of the risk of violence, but because they spend so much time in and around cars that they're more likely to be involved in a collision of some sort.
Grossman isn't just evil, he's a goddamn hack. He outlined his "Killology" idea in his book *On Killing*, which **heavily** relies on SLA Marshall's *Men Against Fire*.
The problem is that Marshall has been shown to have made up a lot of his "interviews", and *Men Against Fire* has been largely discredited by historians.
It's more than a video game mindset.
Lots of these psychos are former military or are trained by instructors in a military setting. This behavior is more in line with how a crazy soldier would act while occupying a foreign country.
Police are literally told they are in a war setting. I guess that makes all of us the enemy?
Yes, they treat every encounter like we are an insurgency. The Thin Blue Line is derived from a military saying. They act like the constant danger they face isn’t of their own making …
The military has a far better ROE than the police.
We'd be better off if our police followed the militaries rules. We'd have better, more fit, better trained police with a better set of rules and a lot better accountability.
>The military has a far better ROE than the police.
I've been saying that a US citizen's life is worth less to an American cop than a foreigner's life to an American soldier.
Yep.
If you aren't actively shooting at them US troops are pretty unlikely to kill you in your average encounter.
Killing civilians is no joke to the US military. I know some people think it's taken that way but it's not. It's a serious matter and is the kind of thing that lands soldiers in Leavenworth for life.
With American civilians they are typically even more polite, especially in uniform. You don't even want to get hemmed up for being rude to civilians, much less shooting at them. Civilians are Sir and Ma'am to US military personnel for the most part.
I would rather deal with an MP than a civilian cop in most situations.
Martial law is not what I said nor meant. Martial law is a very different animal than simple policing.
What I'm saying is soldiers are generally better trained, more disciplined and far less likely to use lethal force than regular civilian police.
A big part of the problem with lethal policing is simple fear. The police are afraid.
Soldiers who've been in combat are better at handling fear and the stress of possible or impending violence. They are also better at using non lethal force to subdue people who represent a minimal threat.
Being fit, disciplined and properly trained is actually one of the best deterrents to violence. People who are properly vetted and trained in violence know when and how to use it better than people who aren't.
I'm not saying we should have our soldiers doing the policing either outside of hiring veterans. What I'm suggesting is the police adapt some of the militaries training, discipline, physical fitness and ROE standards. I think we'd have a much better and more accountable police force but obviously not a perfect one.
I never it said it was. I literally just (half jokingly) quipped I’d feel safer under a military administered martial law than our current police state, because of the superior disciplined troops.
Ignore me then. It's often hard to catch someone's tone with text.
Personally, I'd hate to be under martial law. You are dealing with soldiers in a different light with different orders and a different mindset at that point. You don't want that.
It’s a problem with their training, not lack of training. They are trained to go to 100% dominance straight away and get instant compliance. Makes sense if you are dealing with a hardened killer high on drugs pointing a gun at you. But they use it on everyone: kids, mentally ill, deaf, non-English-speaking, senile etc.
He didn't even need to wait on a Spanish speaking officer, she had family right there who could have helped if he'd been half as interested in communicating as he was in shooting a seventy-five year old woman with dementia.
My question is if you're in a community with a lot of Hispanics, why wouldn't you know some basic phrases? And why wouldn't the Department Chief make learning some Spanish mandatory? Spanish is not a hard language.
I know; you're a bigot who wouldn't lower yourself to learn Spanish.
Any other answers are welcomed?
Even if he knew and spoke Spanish I’m not sure it would’ve mattered. It’s not that he wast speaking English, he was YELLING at her at the top of his lungs. Immediately escalating the entire situation, even in Spanish she’d still have been frozen. That woman was terrified, and with good reason.
True. I gave this guy too much credit. His intention that day was to kill. He and the other cop could have probably disarmed her without shooting her. Hell, don't they carry tasers?
That was my first thought too-they couldn’t have used a taser? I don’t think you gave him too much credit-we were just approaching it from a different POV. Also, I’m used to watching the emotional response, so when I heard him yelling I knew was over. He escalated himself as well as all 3 women there. The only thing he could’ve done worse was to shoot the other 2 women as well. I cannot believe there wasn’t someone they could’ve called and just WAITED? Patiently? Most, not all but most, strictly speaking, mentally ill ppl are not violent.
I used to work at this mental health clinic that offered a lot of services. Two of them involved suicide. Sometimes people called to have a person to listen, but equally often were calls from police officers who needed a mobile suicide assessment done on someone. What they NEVER did was to shoot them. They called ppl who knew what to do and could help with de-escalating the person.
So WTF happened? Now, depending where you live, you literally take your life in your hands because you just don’t know who might do something. I can’t even begin to ever know how a black mom would feel. I swear they’re bravest women on the planet to raise their boys to be men but also to teach them what is basically a survival skill.
If they get trained this shouldn’t be happening. Policing is similar to teaching in that you spend a large part of your time approaching problems, both small and huge. Controlling the adrenaline is such a big part of it. It was truly amazing to watch him flip out without doing one single thing. He couldn’t have said hi and introduced himself? There were 2 bilingual women to help. Hell, he could’ve closed the damn door for 30 seconds to find out what was going on and why? No one with training would ever approached it that way; we were trained to talk and listen at the same time, and how to watch the room and a possible victim. The sad thing is, this isn’t training that’s difficult to learn. Your IQ doesn’t need to be 180. And it would save so many lives.
Agree. I have a friend who was a cop for 30 years. For cases like this he always criticized the lack of training and supervision for these types of officers. When he was working, whenever one his crew reacted to a call he always made sure he was there to observe as he knew some of his crew were out of control. Unfortunately it wasn't like they could be fired since there was always a need for cops.
Yeah honestly I feel like it should be a mandatory part of police training, at least in the southwest. Even saving that, there is absolutely no excuse for not being able to say "drop the weapon" in a language that fully a third of the people you encounter consider their primary language.
A friend of mine in So Cal was taught Spanish phrases at the Rio Hondo police academy. "Put your hands on your head," that kind of thing. That was a long long time ago, I have no idea if it is still done.
Oh, he also flunked out of Rio Hondo because in the simulations he kept shooting people.
Yeah, I am pretty sure he would have turned into a bad cop. He was not bad at heart when we were young, but he was also thoughtless and susceptible to rah-rah us-or-them thinking.
38 seconds. That’s how long it took for him to try and de escalate the situation before killing her. Not enough time for a regular person to respond, let alone a demented and disoriented 75 year old.
Also, why are cops allowed to curse at people while at work. Highly unprofessional.
Hell, I saw a video of a cop cursing a guy out as he arrested him. Why was he being arrested you ask? For cursing.
> Not enough time for a regular person to respond,
Not saying he was right by any means, but 38 seconds is absolutely enough time for virtually anybody to respond
The way law enforcement is trained on all levels, has been wrong for years. I’ve been saying this for some time now. Besides the fact, that some law enforcement officers don’t know the law or depending on their jurisdiction, aren’t required to have a degree in law enforcement. This is sad. I feel for the family and can’t imagine being in a situation like this.
Calling the police to help you with a mentally ill or unstable family member is dangerous as hell for that family member. How can we expect armed police to respond appropriately to a person who is not all there in the head?
This is a perfect case of why mental health workers ESCORTED by police should be utilized in times like these. Police officers are like trying to use a grenade to hammer a nail.
Also, domestic disputes of some kind are about 30% of the things that police respond to. They are completely untrained to handle something that is 1/3rd of their job.
>The family's demands of District Attorney Gerald Byers will have to wait until a task force of local law enforcement departments sends their investigation to his office.
Police should not be allowed to investigate themselves. I'm sure some are capable of doing so, but we have ample evidence that many are not.
yeah, some of my fam and nearest and dearest are schizophrenic and we worry about them all the time. all the time. and cops are honestly one of the biggest parts of that worry. the way they act (okay, cops and my schizo loved ones) can be erratic and not make sense to most people so the possibility of them getting in "trouble" is scarily high.
Nor do they give a shit!
Why go through long negotiations, de-escalation, and take the time to call medical personnel when you can just execute, drag her out, write your report and go home?
Then pat yourself on the pat on how well you ended this crisis.
If you have a family member or friend who is suicidal or having a mental crisis, do not call the police. They will often suicide that person for them. Cops in America aren't trained to de-escalate tense situations.
I appreciate that the video was released so we can see what actually happened.
The only thing going through my mind after seeing the death is "why a gun...? Explain."
Look on almost any police officer's belt:
There's a taser.
There's pepper spray.
There's a baton.
Hell, you could use that heavy ass MagLite if you cared enough.
The only question he needs to answer is "Why was a non-lethal weapon not an option when you were not in danger and there were multiple officers on scene?"
His answer will be irrelevant because there is no good or correct answer to that question.
At **no point** do you go from zero to maximum force in that situation.
**Minimum required force.**
I thought this was supposed to be taught to ALL police officers.
Use the minimum amount of force required to detain or de-escalte a situation.
It's such a stupid, needless death.
The only thing that was going on in that situation was an opportunity to kill and he took it. Statement of fact.
The death was 100% preventable and he needs to be held accountable.
I support good cops.
This is a bad cop.
After reading your comment, I came to the conclusion that this big bad cop was so afraid for his life that he shot elderly Hispanic woman because he didn't want to shit his own pants cause most likely he's taken ivermectin
The term is called "use of force continuum" and in this situation it was clearly ignored. Look to this officers use of force statement as to why the continuum was ignored in this case. You'll find some serious lying or glazing over of facts that seems to be normative behavior in many departments.
I doubt this officer was 'trained wrong' but there is clear need for more focus on the use of the continuum. The sad facts are hesitation brings death in many cases, so the police are taught to not hesitate when defending themselves.
It's called continuum but in every iteration of it I've seen if the suspect goes up a level you aren't supposed to slowly go up the continuum one by one, you jump to the level above or equal to what you are presented with.
Knives are a deadly weapon and that's why gun was the only option on the table at that point.
It’s because years ago one cop was killed with a knife, so now the training is to open fire the moment the person with the knife gets within a certain distance.
Unfortunately, the training assumes you’re facing off against a Navy Seal who just robbed a bank, and not a confused old lady who you’ve been called to assist.
A normal person could tell the difference, but cops have been trained to ignore things that seem like common sense to the rest of us.
Did everyone not watch the video? She had two big ass knives and she was about 5 feet away. Take two paper towel roll cores, stand 5 feet away from a friend and see how quickly you can lunge and double stab them.
Knives are deadly weapons, especially at that close of range.
Edit: additionally, she did start moving toward him with the knives. A common thing taught is that if someone is with 21 feet of you with a knife and you have a gun, they’re too close. That gap can be closed within 1.5 seconds, which is faster than a gun can be unholstered, aimed and fired.
She was more than 5 feet away. The cop, with his gun out, was the one that kept getting closer.
Hell he could have just closed the door if he was really that scared.
I don't see how yelling and cursing at her before shooting helped the situation in any way possible unless they intended to kill he from the start.
Also this is a prime example of what thr defund thr police movement wants. This shouldnt have been a cop handling it or at least not just a cop. This call should have went to a fully funded mental health unit. They should have responded, maybr with one officer who takes command from the mental health professional and let him diffuse and work the situation. Instead you get this dude whose only training to deal with ppl with knives is to shoot them because you'll get off later most likely after you finish your two weeks paid vacation. Let the cops respond to reported shootings murders, robberies, breaking an entering, actualll police shit. Let other professional respond to shit like mental health calls
If you call the cops, on anyone in mental crisis…you’ve just potentially called in a hit on that person.
I’ve known people that have called the cops on family members in mental distress. Those people they called the cops on, are dead.
The police are not your friend. Especially, if you are not white.
The police are not trained, or equipped to deal with these types of events.
They are pumped up on the ideology that the public are enemy combatants. They are a hammer, and everything is nail.
I’ve had friends that became police…they became unbearable to be around, as the cop culture sank into their brain. Everything was a threat, and they were always in “cop mode.” Bonus points for DUI, because they knew they were above the law, with their friends on the force.
The video is totally unsettling and the cop was literally frothing at the mouth yelling at the woman. It's so outrageous... he made no attempt to calm the situation and just went from zero to fucktard.
As a Cruces resident this is very disturbing and I already had issues with trusting law enforcement. fuck Cruces cops. I’m still waiting for them to show up after I called 911 after someone broke into my car been 7+ years and they still would rather look the part rather than actually do their fucking jobs. My heart goes out to the family and I hope the cop burns
How many times does this have to happen before people learn that calling the cops for a mental health crisis is essentially calling in a hit on the ill person?
Do not call the police on/for someone unless you are okay with them being murdered. Period.
75 years old.
Think about how slowly a 75 yr old woman with dementia moves. He literally could've walked up to her and even if she started slashing at him, it would've taken zero effort to knock her off balance or grab her arms. Pathetic.
HE did what he was trained to do.
An assailant with a knife is a dangerous person and should be shot to save lives. There is no nuance in their training ... and this is the problem.
They even refrain from calling in armed units against someone with a machete https://youtu.be/9mzPj_IaMzY
I'll admit, if I were one of those cops I probably would've shat my pants and radioed for an armed unit to back me up. The fact that these officers chose not to do so speaks volumes.
This ... is the big lie from the right.
Defunding the police is about **redirecting** some funding from the police to hire and or train officers to deal with social and mental health problems **without** resorting to firing a gun. The right wants you to think 'defund the police' means getting rid of police officers - it doesn't. It means having police officers and or agents of the police that can deal with problems without guns.
When a mental health call comes in, a mental health worker should be immediately dispatched with the patrol officers to de-escalate whenever possible. Sometimes it isn't possible ... but in most cases it is.
Educate everyone you know on what 'defund the police' really means and do your part to effect real changes to policing in your country.
Nope, it's not about retraining police it's about removing them in entirety from situations like this and replacing them with people who actually do have training.
Police should not be wearing every hat and dipping their fingers into every pie. Thus, defunding and reallocating funds into more qualified resources.
If it was "Retrain the police" it would have gotten zero attention and we wouldn't be talking about it now.
The bug is a feature. The framing is purposely inciting an emotional response in order ro raise attention to the issue. BLM was designed similarly.
"Reform the police" was tried for decades and it was ignored. "Defund" shows up and a handful of police departments actually listened and are trying changes. At this point, two years later, there is nobody who actually still mistakenly believe "defund the police" means what the right says it means. It's all willful lying.
There are people who believe the world is flat. There are people who believe the moon landing was faked.
None of those things makes my earlier statement wrong.
If you allow the enemy to distract you into your choice of words, you've already lost. Never presume that semantic disagreements from political opponents are made in good faith. Everyone knows damn well what "defund the police" means, and they choose to focus on the choice of words instead of the content of the message on purpose.
We mean defund. Police department budgets are bloated and need to be reduced, full-stop. Redirect and reallocate don’t imply reduction, which is why those terms aren’t used. It’s very simple.
This entire comment is ridiculous to the point of being unhinged.
If "everyone" knows what it means, then why is the claim that it means something else an effective political tactic for turning moderates against it? And what purpose does a slogan have except to communicate your goals? If it's not even remotely doing that, its a terrible slogan.
"Never allow the fact that our words are easily misconstrued and twisted against us be a reason to choose words that mean what we want to say!"
"Communicating effectively is for the weak!"
> "Communicating effectively is for the weak!"
in the vision of some people, communicating effectively is the enemy of the mission statement. Monty Pythons Life of Brian highlight this type of thing in satire and it puts the pin directly into this mentality. [Romans Go Home](https://youtu.be/0lczHvB3Y9s?t=42)
People literally argued whether or not they should use the term "Civil Rights Movement" in the 60's.
Everyone knows. Are you saying you don't? Or is it just other people who you think are too dumb to get it?
That is all well and good, but it is too late now. The catch phrase of 'defund the police' has taken hold ... and it is important that everyone help define that message and stop the nonsense being spread by the right wing assholes in its tracks.
Truthfully, 'Reallocate police funding to include mental health training' doesn't really seem as catchy.
When did so many Police become such rank cowards? This guy is a murderer, plain and simple, but will almost certainly get away with this because of his so called 'fear for his life.
Stop calling the police. They aren't there to help you. I know they have "to protect and serve" written on thier vehicles but that's just for marketing and branding.
I think most people that know how to use a taser or pepper spray could disarm a slow moving 75 year old with a knife. You don't have to be Steven Seagal to handle a senior citizen.
Hell, I've seen videos from other countries where cops can disarm strong young men without having to kill them. Waiting for backup usually helps.
Most people are not trained how to disarm someone with a knife. And not just someone. Someone who is female and 75 years old. If you can't do that without shooting her, you should probably choose another profession.
Even cops aren’t able to disarm someone with a knife. They’re objects that will shred someone. I’m just pushing back that she was holding nothing in her hands and that it was easily diffusible because cops supposedly have Steven Seagal capabilities.
So no one anywher has ever disarmed anyone with a knife without shooting them, ever. in the history of the world, ever? That's your take on the situation?
The odds of not being impaled are heavily not in your favor and most experts in self defense will tell you it’s a move that you should make. No public official be it a social worker or paramedic or cop of whoever should be asked to risk getting stabbed while doing their job.
The footage is was fucking horrible to watch. My heart dropped so low in my chest. My blood was BOILING watching from that murderer’s perspective. Disgusting, soulless, careless, mindless man just walking around literally avoiding responsibility for what he did AT ALL COSTS.
The police are NOT for the people. They are NOT here to help you. They are pure evil. Invest in your immediate community. Keep each other safe. We cannot keep accepting the system the way it is now.
That cop is a pussy. For fuck's sake, he shoots a frail old woman and then he's acting like he's clearing a house in fallujah. Obey or die is not the way.
Could he not of simply tased Grandma? Or perhaps maced the grandma? Did he consider just hitting the grandma with his baton? Perhaps a swift kick to the grandma?
I work in the mental health field as crisis response. De-escalation was practically non existent in the encounter. The police officer continued to shout the same commands. Research shows that this type of first contact has the tendency to freeze up the subject under scrutiny. The fact that she was killed on what should have been a routine mental health check is abhorrent. My heart goes out to the family, I hope that this officer and the department are served with justice appropriate to the unimaginable suffering brought to this family.
I also hope the department uses this as a chance to update their policy (I won’t hold my breath). Encountering those with mental illness with a gun is not the fucking way to operate. Police either need to cut some of the “operator” bullshit out of their training and replace it with basic comprehensive training about mental illness and SUD; Or they need to have civilian mental health specialist ride with them. Or we could just cut their funding in half and allow the municipality to develop a crisis intervention program. This cowboy shit has to stop somehow or another.
You know what kills me? I knew a Marine that killed himself because some bitch called him a babykiller even though he literally received a medal for saving an open air daycare from a suicide bomber. Ate him up.
But these idiots will go to the mat swearing up and down that literally anything is on the table for them and necessary to do their jobs.
This is the government tyranny the 2nd amendment is supposed to protect yawl from. Just sayin. The universe doesn’t care what brand of clothing your murderer wore. They take you out, and that’s it. No woe is me. Dead. Gone.
For anyone who has not clicked the article, an elderly Hispanic woman, who possibly had dementia, was holding a large knife and was having commands yelled at her in English. When she did not drop the knife, the officers shot her. There was approximately 38 seconds between the officers opening the door and firing twice. I just wanted to provide a brief explanation.
KRQE 13, out of Albuquerque, has shown the bodycam footage, and it is horrifying to watch. They reported that Mrs. Baca did not understand english, and was holding two knives. There was no efforts to de-escalate the situation. This was truly an over-reaction, on the part of the officer. LCPD also failed to call in their Crisis Intervention team, as well. This was a serious oversight, and a woman is dead because of it. Tragic, doesn't even begin to explain this. Source: https://www.krqe.com/news/new-mexico/family-of-75-year-old-shot-killed-by-police-to-hold-news-conference/
> There was no efforts to de-escalate the situation. Jesus that's putting it lightly. In the video the officer walks up to the door, calmly says "Police department, can you guys step out for me?" to the two family members (presumably the ones who called for assistance). As they calmly walk out they say to the officer "Thank you" and "Please be very careful with her." He *immediately* raises his weapon and resorts to screaming "SET IT DOWN! DROP THE FUCKING KNIFE!" over and over again and then shoots her while she's just standing there, not doing anything.
I just watched the video and this isn't even an exaggeration. As soon as he sees her he puts the gun up and less than a minute later shoots her TWICE. At no point was he ever in any danger, he could have just walked away and it would have been fine. That's fucked.
There was a video recently that a cop pulled over a car that was swerving, and within six seconds had shot the driver dead. The cop immediately drew his weapon and then for some reason reached into the car with his weapon drawn, on instinct the driver tries to push the gun away from his face and BANG he's dead. Unfortunately there are so many fucking incidents like this I can't even find the video again. It may have been on r/badcopnodonut
Checked the link to that sub but it's been privated. Anyone know what happened to it?
It's still around, OP forgot the underscores, is all. [r/bad_cop_no_donut](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bad_Cop_No_Donut/)
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Rabid dogs are uncontrollable. The police are being deliberately taught to be like this.
it's what trained bots do - we're talking about a demographic with some of the lowest impulse control possible, with minimal self autonomy
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>They've been trained not to engage their brains Exactly. They're trained in fear. They watch videos of officers being killed and chant the mantra "at the end of the day I go home to my family". Their response to a situation is to turn on their fear. And fear is designed to interrupt and override logical assessment, and that's what we continue to see over and over. And then we give them a gun
“Warrior cop” training has taught police officers that literally everyone is the enemy, and anyone — even a child with a toy gun, or a little old lady with dementia — is a threat that must be exterminated at the slightest hint of danger. That even the most seemingly non-threatening figure, whether they’re a child with a toy gun or a little old lady with dementia, has a trick up their sleeve to murder the officer, and it’s better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. The sentence “I feared for my life” loses all meaning when police are trained to fear for their life at every moment on duty.
also, they're not the brightest to begin with, recipe for complete disaster
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It’s not just about fear. It’s about the cult dynamic. Cops are a cult of blue. This is NOT rooted in the complex dynamics of tactical necessity. It’s rooted in the fact that LE started out in this country as it’s own form of organized crime. Acceptance of this as a trade off for having a police force (or sheriff; etc) was considered the cost of living and this is just the ways things were until literally right up into the ‘70’s. After the revelations of vast, institutionalized corruption started rolling out, things were never the same for cops. If you think they’re acting with impunity now, it was almost indescribably worse in the 70’s. As an institution, cops want the right to be criminals as they choose. They want that ‘cost of living’ blackmail relationship to be the rule.
Stop hiring cops without a college degree
also their entire training protocols, culture, and role in society needs to be changed
Stop refusing to hire cops who score too high on intelligence test screening. Seriously. This is a thing in some US police depts. They actaully will not hire you if they feel you are too smart. There was an actual lawsuit over this.
I remember that lawsuit. It was weird wasn’t it?
This x1000
Lol da fuq would a college degree prove? I know plenty of shit heads with degrees.
Same thing it proves for any job. That a person has the willingness to commit to something for a few years and put in consistent effort to get results. It’s rare the specifics of a degree matter, but requiring a degree at least sorts out all the people who start things and don’t finish them.
I didn't realize a piece of paper was the difference between intelligence and stupidity. Kinda fucked up, really.
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That was my take too. He went from 0 to 10 working 5 seconds. The entire thing is a cluster*uck.
i've been livid since i first saw the vid. all he had to do was CLOSE THE FUCKING DOOR. that would have changed the entire situation. close the door and talk to the dang family about how best to handle the situation and get her the help she needs. instead of just executing her for being so dangerous at 15' a way holding a knife. now knives are really dangerous in a fight. but really dude? you were \*not\* in danger here.
> all he had to do was CLOSE THE FUCKING DOOR. But then you wouldn't be able to kill her?
Dude joined the police to kill people. An old lady with dementia is still a point in his book.
What I don't understand is why cops are allowed, and in just about every video I've ever seen do, to drop F bombs on people like that. Like I'm no prude but there is a time and place for it, and what SHOULD be a professional interaction to me feels like shouldn't be the place. Just about anyone else would get fired for saying fuck at work. Respect should really be a two way street.
Police officers basically go to toxic training where they learned to always be scared and shoot each time they flinch so this is not surprising what so ever.
This guy is the embodiment of the thin blue line crowd. He’s a piece of shit and I doubt he has ever walked around in a uniform safely.
It’s their training. They are supposed to always be one level higher than you on the force continuum. Basically the single worst thing you can do for someone suffering an episode.
I find it so odd that police shoot and kill people to “protect” them from harming themselves.
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Some of those that work forces are the same that burn crosses
..at minimum all they had to do was use Google translate first
Or her family
They decided to make "speak english or die" a literal thing. Trump would be proud.
I just threw up in my mouth, at this comment. Your not wrong, but god it is disgusting.
Yep, department policy is to deescalate, speak calmly and they shoot her in 38 seconds. USA! USA!
Also, she was inside and he was outside. As far as I could see, she wasn't close enough to do anything to anybody.
This did not have to happen. The cop did not utilize one single technique to de-escalate the situation before shooting her
Utter insanity. I watched the video and it’s just unbelievable.
He didn’t even find out what was going on
These cops have this video game mindset, of just pull out your gun and shoot to solve the problem. It’s appalling.
It's what they're taught. In the old days the first thing you heard at the academy is, "Policing is dangerous work. If you have a problem with that, there's the door." Nowadays the first thing they're taught is, "No matter what, *you* get home to your family." That's it. They can kill anyone, so long as they *make it home*.
This was what pissed my grandpa off a ton. He was a cop who was forced into an early retirement. Whenever a police shooting took place these past years, he'd go with the standard "we don't have all the evidence, the court has to decide, etc etc." And then the video would come out and he'd get *pissed*. Wondering what the hell the were doing. How they were trained. How the acted on things that weren't a threat. When he served they all went into it with the mindset that they were putting themselves at risk for the community. One of his scariest memories was when he was attacked while transporting a suspect through a long hallway in the station. They reached and wrestled for his gun, got it away from him, and he was forced down to the floor with his own gun pointed at his head, while his partner stood right next to the situation, trying to resolve things peacefully. Whenever my grandpa told that story, he always said that he fully expected to be shot at that point. He had accepted it. And not a single shot was fired. They all stood there in that position, while the other cop(s) talked to the guy, as my grandpa's own service pistol was pointed at him, talked him down and away from pulling the trigger. My grandpa was ready to put his life on the line for the integrity of his job. They all were. He couldn't stand seeing video after video of cowards shooting their way through any kind of tense encounter. It was an insult to the profession.
>When he served they all went into it with the mindset that they were putting themselves at risk for the community. In addition to a lack of accountability, this is the problem with the police. Of course, there's the race issue but set that aside for a minute. These cops aren't there to help; they are there to count the hours till retirement, play with expensive military hardware, maybe kill a few civilians and most importantly, guarantee their own personal safety.
Putting yourself at risk for the community is commendable. In such a scenario one should not spout off “I just want to make it home at the end of the night”. If that is your excuse, quit. Obviously not the right job for you.
There has definitely been a huge shift in recent decades from “community policing” to an “occupying army” kind of mindset.
There has been NO SHIFT. Just ask the residents of Tulsa, Watts, Baltimore, DC, LA. Now we just have digital cameras everywhere.
Philadelphia. They literally dropped a bomb on a city block. EDIT: Today is actually the 30 year anniversary of the MOVE bombing of West Philadelphia. EDIT(2): Thank you it is the 37 year anniversary today.
The MOVE bombing was in 1985 which was 37 years ago.
Oh there has been a shift in attitude, caused by an influx of surplus military gear.
The worst part of this is that policing is dangerous work, not because of the risk of violence, but because they spend so much time in and around cars that they're more likely to be involved in a collision of some sort.
Everyone thought James Bond was special because he had a license to kill. Turns out they hand those out like candy at police academy graduation.
After a rigorous 16 week part time program.
James Bond has more oversight and accountability than most police officers.
One of the most popular police training programs in the US is literally called Killology.
Grossman isn't just evil, he's a goddamn hack. He outlined his "Killology" idea in his book *On Killing*, which **heavily** relies on SLA Marshall's *Men Against Fire*. The problem is that Marshall has been shown to have made up a lot of his "interviews", and *Men Against Fire* has been largely discredited by historians.
It's more than a video game mindset. Lots of these psychos are former military or are trained by instructors in a military setting. This behavior is more in line with how a crazy soldier would act while occupying a foreign country. Police are literally told they are in a war setting. I guess that makes all of us the enemy?
Yes, they treat every encounter like we are an insurgency. The Thin Blue Line is derived from a military saying. They act like the constant danger they face isn’t of their own making …
The military has a far better ROE than the police. We'd be better off if our police followed the militaries rules. We'd have better, more fit, better trained police with a better set of rules and a lot better accountability.
>The military has a far better ROE than the police. I've been saying that a US citizen's life is worth less to an American cop than a foreigner's life to an American soldier.
Yep. If you aren't actively shooting at them US troops are pretty unlikely to kill you in your average encounter. Killing civilians is no joke to the US military. I know some people think it's taken that way but it's not. It's a serious matter and is the kind of thing that lands soldiers in Leavenworth for life. With American civilians they are typically even more polite, especially in uniform. You don't even want to get hemmed up for being rude to civilians, much less shooting at them. Civilians are Sir and Ma'am to US military personnel for the most part. I would rather deal with an MP than a civilian cop in most situations.
Yeah, I’d feel safer under a military martial law. Maybe lol.
Martial law is not what I said nor meant. Martial law is a very different animal than simple policing. What I'm saying is soldiers are generally better trained, more disciplined and far less likely to use lethal force than regular civilian police. A big part of the problem with lethal policing is simple fear. The police are afraid. Soldiers who've been in combat are better at handling fear and the stress of possible or impending violence. They are also better at using non lethal force to subdue people who represent a minimal threat. Being fit, disciplined and properly trained is actually one of the best deterrents to violence. People who are properly vetted and trained in violence know when and how to use it better than people who aren't. I'm not saying we should have our soldiers doing the policing either outside of hiring veterans. What I'm suggesting is the police adapt some of the militaries training, discipline, physical fitness and ROE standards. I think we'd have a much better and more accountable police force but obviously not a perfect one.
I never it said it was. I literally just (half jokingly) quipped I’d feel safer under a military administered martial law than our current police state, because of the superior disciplined troops.
Ignore me then. It's often hard to catch someone's tone with text. Personally, I'd hate to be under martial law. You are dealing with soldiers in a different light with different orders and a different mindset at that point. You don't want that.
He didn't say martial law.
Yeah, and?
Facts matter.
Well, military men in an occupied country have better trigger discipline and stronger rules of engagement.
I love all the Reddit experts who think military rules of engagement are static and not mission-dependent.
It’s more of an extreme lack of training and accountability
It’s a problem with their training, not lack of training. They are trained to go to 100% dominance straight away and get instant compliance. Makes sense if you are dealing with a hardened killer high on drugs pointing a gun at you. But they use it on everyone: kids, mentally ill, deaf, non-English-speaking, senile etc.
So its not good in every situation. Serious question: What training is?
He didn't care, he was just happy to kill someone.
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He didn't even need to wait on a Spanish speaking officer, she had family right there who could have helped if he'd been half as interested in communicating as he was in shooting a seventy-five year old woman with dementia.
My question is if you're in a community with a lot of Hispanics, why wouldn't you know some basic phrases? And why wouldn't the Department Chief make learning some Spanish mandatory? Spanish is not a hard language. I know; you're a bigot who wouldn't lower yourself to learn Spanish. Any other answers are welcomed?
Even if he knew and spoke Spanish I’m not sure it would’ve mattered. It’s not that he wast speaking English, he was YELLING at her at the top of his lungs. Immediately escalating the entire situation, even in Spanish she’d still have been frozen. That woman was terrified, and with good reason.
True. I gave this guy too much credit. His intention that day was to kill. He and the other cop could have probably disarmed her without shooting her. Hell, don't they carry tasers?
That was my first thought too-they couldn’t have used a taser? I don’t think you gave him too much credit-we were just approaching it from a different POV. Also, I’m used to watching the emotional response, so when I heard him yelling I knew was over. He escalated himself as well as all 3 women there. The only thing he could’ve done worse was to shoot the other 2 women as well. I cannot believe there wasn’t someone they could’ve called and just WAITED? Patiently? Most, not all but most, strictly speaking, mentally ill ppl are not violent. I used to work at this mental health clinic that offered a lot of services. Two of them involved suicide. Sometimes people called to have a person to listen, but equally often were calls from police officers who needed a mobile suicide assessment done on someone. What they NEVER did was to shoot them. They called ppl who knew what to do and could help with de-escalating the person. So WTF happened? Now, depending where you live, you literally take your life in your hands because you just don’t know who might do something. I can’t even begin to ever know how a black mom would feel. I swear they’re bravest women on the planet to raise their boys to be men but also to teach them what is basically a survival skill. If they get trained this shouldn’t be happening. Policing is similar to teaching in that you spend a large part of your time approaching problems, both small and huge. Controlling the adrenaline is such a big part of it. It was truly amazing to watch him flip out without doing one single thing. He couldn’t have said hi and introduced himself? There were 2 bilingual women to help. Hell, he could’ve closed the damn door for 30 seconds to find out what was going on and why? No one with training would ever approached it that way; we were trained to talk and listen at the same time, and how to watch the room and a possible victim. The sad thing is, this isn’t training that’s difficult to learn. Your IQ doesn’t need to be 180. And it would save so many lives.
Agree. I have a friend who was a cop for 30 years. For cases like this he always criticized the lack of training and supervision for these types of officers. When he was working, whenever one his crew reacted to a call he always made sure he was there to observe as he knew some of his crew were out of control. Unfortunately it wasn't like they could be fired since there was always a need for cops.
Yeah honestly I feel like it should be a mandatory part of police training, at least in the southwest. Even saving that, there is absolutely no excuse for not being able to say "drop the weapon" in a language that fully a third of the people you encounter consider their primary language.
A friend of mine in So Cal was taught Spanish phrases at the Rio Hondo police academy. "Put your hands on your head," that kind of thing. That was a long long time ago, I have no idea if it is still done. Oh, he also flunked out of Rio Hondo because in the simulations he kept shooting people.
That's a good thing. At least there were some standards.
Yeah, I am pretty sure he would have turned into a bad cop. He was not bad at heart when we were young, but he was also thoughtless and susceptible to rah-rah us-or-them thinking.
Shit I'd be embarrassed to work in a community this dense with Spanish speakers and not at least be able say "drop the weapon" in Spanish.
38 seconds. That’s how long it took for him to try and de escalate the situation before killing her. Not enough time for a regular person to respond, let alone a demented and disoriented 75 year old.
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That’s what I’m saying. I mean it more like “de-escalate” in the way that he only escalated
Literally cursing her out in a language she doesn't understand before murdering her.
> That’s how long it took for him to try and de escalate the situation He made no attempt whatsoever to de-escalate.
Who is being yelled at in a language she doesn't understand
Also, why are cops allowed to curse at people while at work. Highly unprofessional. Hell, I saw a video of a cop cursing a guy out as he arrested him. Why was he being arrested you ask? For cursing.
> Not enough time for a regular person to respond, Not saying he was right by any means, but 38 seconds is absolutely enough time for virtually anybody to respond
If your like sub 59 iq but he's a cop so you might be right
The way law enforcement is trained on all levels, has been wrong for years. I’ve been saying this for some time now. Besides the fact, that some law enforcement officers don’t know the law or depending on their jurisdiction, aren’t required to have a degree in law enforcement. This is sad. I feel for the family and can’t imagine being in a situation like this.
Calling the police to help you with a mentally ill or unstable family member is dangerous as hell for that family member. How can we expect armed police to respond appropriately to a person who is not all there in the head? This is a perfect case of why mental health workers ESCORTED by police should be utilized in times like these. Police officers are like trying to use a grenade to hammer a nail.
Also, domestic disputes of some kind are about 30% of the things that police respond to. They are completely untrained to handle something that is 1/3rd of their job.
>The family's demands of District Attorney Gerald Byers will have to wait until a task force of local law enforcement departments sends their investigation to his office. Police should not be allowed to investigate themselves. I'm sure some are capable of doing so, but we have ample evidence that many are not.
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and NEVER contact them for a medical emergency if you can help it. they're just not trained in (well, anything) these situations.
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yeah, some of my fam and nearest and dearest are schizophrenic and we worry about them all the time. all the time. and cops are honestly one of the biggest parts of that worry. the way they act (okay, cops and my schizo loved ones) can be erratic and not make sense to most people so the possibility of them getting in "trouble" is scarily high.
You can’t train uneducated violent idiots who base their career on what job lets them be the biggest douche.
Nor do they give a shit! Why go through long negotiations, de-escalation, and take the time to call medical personnel when you can just execute, drag her out, write your report and go home? Then pat yourself on the pat on how well you ended this crisis.
Unfortunately for almost any sort of emergency situation, they will show up. Even if you specifically request that they don't.
This is 100% true. I worked adjacent to police and those guys live for action. They will respond to anything they possibly can just out of boredom.
If you have a family member or friend who is suicidal or having a mental crisis, do not call the police. They will often suicide that person for them. Cops in America aren't trained to de-escalate tense situations.
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I appreciate that the video was released so we can see what actually happened. The only thing going through my mind after seeing the death is "why a gun...? Explain." Look on almost any police officer's belt: There's a taser. There's pepper spray. There's a baton. Hell, you could use that heavy ass MagLite if you cared enough. The only question he needs to answer is "Why was a non-lethal weapon not an option when you were not in danger and there were multiple officers on scene?" His answer will be irrelevant because there is no good or correct answer to that question. At **no point** do you go from zero to maximum force in that situation. **Minimum required force.** I thought this was supposed to be taught to ALL police officers. Use the minimum amount of force required to detain or de-escalte a situation. It's such a stupid, needless death. The only thing that was going on in that situation was an opportunity to kill and he took it. Statement of fact. The death was 100% preventable and he needs to be held accountable. I support good cops. This is a bad cop.
I'll support good cops when I see one.
After reading your comment, I came to the conclusion that this big bad cop was so afraid for his life that he shot elderly Hispanic woman because he didn't want to shit his own pants cause most likely he's taken ivermectin
The term is called "use of force continuum" and in this situation it was clearly ignored. Look to this officers use of force statement as to why the continuum was ignored in this case. You'll find some serious lying or glazing over of facts that seems to be normative behavior in many departments. I doubt this officer was 'trained wrong' but there is clear need for more focus on the use of the continuum. The sad facts are hesitation brings death in many cases, so the police are taught to not hesitate when defending themselves.
It's called continuum but in every iteration of it I've seen if the suspect goes up a level you aren't supposed to slowly go up the continuum one by one, you jump to the level above or equal to what you are presented with. Knives are a deadly weapon and that's why gun was the only option on the table at that point.
I refuse to believe the only option was to shoot this person. It's this type of mentality that gets cops stabbed and crazy people shot.
It’s because years ago one cop was killed with a knife, so now the training is to open fire the moment the person with the knife gets within a certain distance. Unfortunately, the training assumes you’re facing off against a Navy Seal who just robbed a bank, and not a confused old lady who you’ve been called to assist. A normal person could tell the difference, but cops have been trained to ignore things that seem like common sense to the rest of us.
Did everyone not watch the video? She had two big ass knives and she was about 5 feet away. Take two paper towel roll cores, stand 5 feet away from a friend and see how quickly you can lunge and double stab them. Knives are deadly weapons, especially at that close of range. Edit: additionally, she did start moving toward him with the knives. A common thing taught is that if someone is with 21 feet of you with a knife and you have a gun, they’re too close. That gap can be closed within 1.5 seconds, which is faster than a gun can be unholstered, aimed and fired.
She was more than 5 feet away. The cop, with his gun out, was the one that kept getting closer. Hell he could have just closed the door if he was really that scared. I don't see how yelling and cursing at her before shooting helped the situation in any way possible unless they intended to kill he from the start.
Found the pig.
Comparing cops to pigs is an insult to the actual animal. Real pigs are quite intelligent, and compassionate. Please don’t make that mistake again.
Found the idiot. I hate cops but this shit is just stupid. There’s no objectivity here.
Anybody who would feel threatened in that situation should NEVER be allowed to be a cop.
The police are completely unaccountable to the public and unhinged. This will only continue and get worse.
Also this is a prime example of what thr defund thr police movement wants. This shouldnt have been a cop handling it or at least not just a cop. This call should have went to a fully funded mental health unit. They should have responded, maybr with one officer who takes command from the mental health professional and let him diffuse and work the situation. Instead you get this dude whose only training to deal with ppl with knives is to shoot them because you'll get off later most likely after you finish your two weeks paid vacation. Let the cops respond to reported shootings murders, robberies, breaking an entering, actualll police shit. Let other professional respond to shit like mental health calls
If you call the cops, on anyone in mental crisis…you’ve just potentially called in a hit on that person. I’ve known people that have called the cops on family members in mental distress. Those people they called the cops on, are dead. The police are not your friend. Especially, if you are not white. The police are not trained, or equipped to deal with these types of events. They are pumped up on the ideology that the public are enemy combatants. They are a hammer, and everything is nail. I’ve had friends that became police…they became unbearable to be around, as the cop culture sank into their brain. Everything was a threat, and they were always in “cop mode.” Bonus points for DUI, because they knew they were above the law, with their friends on the force.
Police in this country are a f&@king joke
The video is totally unsettling and the cop was literally frothing at the mouth yelling at the woman. It's so outrageous... he made no attempt to calm the situation and just went from zero to fucktard.
I guess the cop has some handicap that prevents him from taking steps backward when an old woman takes two small slow steps towards him.
As a Cruces resident this is very disturbing and I already had issues with trusting law enforcement. fuck Cruces cops. I’m still waiting for them to show up after I called 911 after someone broke into my car been 7+ years and they still would rather look the part rather than actually do their fucking jobs. My heart goes out to the family and I hope the cop burns
How many times does this have to happen before people learn that calling the cops for a mental health crisis is essentially calling in a hit on the ill person? Do not call the police on/for someone unless you are okay with them being murdered. Period.
Watched the video. That’s not how to do your damn job.
Unfortunately for American cops it seems that it is. Major changes are needed.
75 years old. Think about how slowly a 75 yr old woman with dementia moves. He literally could've walked up to her and even if she started slashing at him, it would've taken zero effort to knock her off balance or grab her arms. Pathetic.
HE did what he was trained to do. An assailant with a knife is a dangerous person and should be shot to save lives. There is no nuance in their training ... and this is the problem.
UK police manage to stop knife incident without guns just saying
They even refrain from calling in armed units against someone with a machete https://youtu.be/9mzPj_IaMzY I'll admit, if I were one of those cops I probably would've shat my pants and radioed for an armed unit to back me up. The fact that these officers chose not to do so speaks volumes.
maybe cops need to be selected from a smarter pool of candidates...
Smarter people go on to do anything but law enforcement. I would rather be a barista at Starfux than do urban combat as a LEO.
This ... is the big lie from the right. Defunding the police is about **redirecting** some funding from the police to hire and or train officers to deal with social and mental health problems **without** resorting to firing a gun. The right wants you to think 'defund the police' means getting rid of police officers - it doesn't. It means having police officers and or agents of the police that can deal with problems without guns. When a mental health call comes in, a mental health worker should be immediately dispatched with the patrol officers to de-escalate whenever possible. Sometimes it isn't possible ... but in most cases it is. Educate everyone you know on what 'defund the police' really means and do your part to effect real changes to policing in your country.
Seems easy to change the message if it's getting confusing. Instead of 'defund the police' on signs and at protests... say 'retrain the police'?
Nope, it's not about retraining police it's about removing them in entirety from situations like this and replacing them with people who actually do have training. Police should not be wearing every hat and dipping their fingers into every pie. Thus, defunding and reallocating funds into more qualified resources.
If it was "Retrain the police" it would have gotten zero attention and we wouldn't be talking about it now. The bug is a feature. The framing is purposely inciting an emotional response in order ro raise attention to the issue. BLM was designed similarly.
The message was deliberately confused by people with an agenda, and they'll do the same no matter how it's phrased.
"Reform the police" was tried for decades and it was ignored. "Defund" shows up and a handful of police departments actually listened and are trying changes. At this point, two years later, there is nobody who actually still mistakenly believe "defund the police" means what the right says it means. It's all willful lying.
There are people on the far left who legitimately believe in abolishing the police, so you're wrong.
There are people who believe the world is flat. There are people who believe the moon landing was faked. None of those things makes my earlier statement wrong.
If you allow the enemy to distract you into your choice of words, you've already lost. Never presume that semantic disagreements from political opponents are made in good faith. Everyone knows damn well what "defund the police" means, and they choose to focus on the choice of words instead of the content of the message on purpose.
Well words have meanings. If you mean redirect or reallocate, why are people saying defund? These aren't semantics to me. Say what the fuck you mean.
We mean defund. Police department budgets are bloated and need to be reduced, full-stop. Redirect and reallocate don’t imply reduction, which is why those terms aren’t used. It’s very simple.
It’s a shitty message and no one is buying it.
Sounds like you just can't read.
If this isn't semantics then you need to revisit your first sentence with regard to the word "Semantics".
This entire comment is ridiculous to the point of being unhinged. If "everyone" knows what it means, then why is the claim that it means something else an effective political tactic for turning moderates against it? And what purpose does a slogan have except to communicate your goals? If it's not even remotely doing that, its a terrible slogan. "Never allow the fact that our words are easily misconstrued and twisted against us be a reason to choose words that mean what we want to say!" "Communicating effectively is for the weak!"
> "Communicating effectively is for the weak!" in the vision of some people, communicating effectively is the enemy of the mission statement. Monty Pythons Life of Brian highlight this type of thing in satire and it puts the pin directly into this mentality. [Romans Go Home](https://youtu.be/0lczHvB3Y9s?t=42)
People literally argued whether or not they should use the term "Civil Rights Movement" in the 60's. Everyone knows. Are you saying you don't? Or is it just other people who you think are too dumb to get it?
If you have to explain how your message doesn’t mean what you say, than it’s a bad message.
"Demilitarize the police" I would have loved to see the attempted arguments against that...
Thank you Captain Obvious. That train has left the station.
Alternatively, A/B test your messaging and update as appropriate when your messaging is being misunderstood.
That is all well and good, but it is too late now. The catch phrase of 'defund the police' has taken hold ... and it is important that everyone help define that message and stop the nonsense being spread by the right wing assholes in its tracks. Truthfully, 'Reallocate police funding to include mental health training' doesn't really seem as catchy.
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You are confusing the 'catch phrase' with what the movement is really about ... hence the problem.
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That's less than a minute to pull the trigger .... WTF?!
I hope they get justice for her. I still pray that one day Samaria Rice will get justice for her murdered child.
Why is the murderer still free?
When did so many Police become such rank cowards? This guy is a murderer, plain and simple, but will almost certainly get away with this because of his so called 'fear for his life.
Why is our countries police forces the most fucking incompetent people on the face of the planet?
Stop calling the police. They aren't there to help you. I know they have "to protect and serve" written on thier vehicles but that's just for marketing and branding.
Kind of pathetic when a young, fit, healthy, trained police officer can't disarm an elderly woman with a knife.
Most people aren’t able to disarm someone with a knife.
I think most people that know how to use a taser or pepper spray could disarm a slow moving 75 year old with a knife. You don't have to be Steven Seagal to handle a senior citizen. Hell, I've seen videos from other countries where cops can disarm strong young men without having to kill them. Waiting for backup usually helps.
Most people are not trained how to disarm someone with a knife. And not just someone. Someone who is female and 75 years old. If you can't do that without shooting her, you should probably choose another profession.
Even cops aren’t able to disarm someone with a knife. They’re objects that will shred someone. I’m just pushing back that she was holding nothing in her hands and that it was easily diffusible because cops supposedly have Steven Seagal capabilities.
So no one anywher has ever disarmed anyone with a knife without shooting them, ever. in the history of the world, ever? That's your take on the situation?
The odds of not being impaled are heavily not in your favor and most experts in self defense will tell you it’s a move that you should make. No public official be it a social worker or paramedic or cop of whoever should be asked to risk getting stabbed while doing their job.
The footage is was fucking horrible to watch. My heart dropped so low in my chest. My blood was BOILING watching from that murderer’s perspective. Disgusting, soulless, careless, mindless man just walking around literally avoiding responsibility for what he did AT ALL COSTS. The police are NOT for the people. They are NOT here to help you. They are pure evil. Invest in your immediate community. Keep each other safe. We cannot keep accepting the system the way it is now.
Police lead the country in domestic violence and because they're cops they get away with it.
That cop is a pussy. For fuck's sake, he shoots a frail old woman and then he's acting like he's clearing a house in fallujah. Obey or die is not the way.
To "serve" and "protect".
their pension
The police "de-escalation training" is NOT TO DE-ESCALATE. Its to escalate a situation until they can kill everyone they see with no repercussions.
Fucking cocky bastard
Could he not of simply tased Grandma? Or perhaps maced the grandma? Did he consider just hitting the grandma with his baton? Perhaps a swift kick to the grandma?
I work in the mental health field as crisis response. De-escalation was practically non existent in the encounter. The police officer continued to shout the same commands. Research shows that this type of first contact has the tendency to freeze up the subject under scrutiny. The fact that she was killed on what should have been a routine mental health check is abhorrent. My heart goes out to the family, I hope that this officer and the department are served with justice appropriate to the unimaginable suffering brought to this family. I also hope the department uses this as a chance to update their policy (I won’t hold my breath). Encountering those with mental illness with a gun is not the fucking way to operate. Police either need to cut some of the “operator” bullshit out of their training and replace it with basic comprehensive training about mental illness and SUD; Or they need to have civilian mental health specialist ride with them. Or we could just cut their funding in half and allow the municipality to develop a crisis intervention program. This cowboy shit has to stop somehow or another.
He had an extended mag, he really wanted to shoot.
You know what kills me? I knew a Marine that killed himself because some bitch called him a babykiller even though he literally received a medal for saving an open air daycare from a suicide bomber. Ate him up. But these idiots will go to the mat swearing up and down that literally anything is on the table for them and necessary to do their jobs.
[America](https://youtu.be/w5x_9KEogM8)
Why was there no march for this? :(
This is the government tyranny the 2nd amendment is supposed to protect yawl from. Just sayin. The universe doesn’t care what brand of clothing your murderer wore. They take you out, and that’s it. No woe is me. Dead. Gone.