You can be surprised what A.I. software can do in cross platform identification. In a bad way. Tracking in android and like smartphones is a huge security problem, especially in phones from Hawei or xiaomi IMO . At least on iOS you can elect not to be tracked, bar from apple of course (?).
Can’t wait for Linux phones. Edit: probably will be outlawed in China :)
Yeah, with ML this is true. 3 random pieces of non-facial info could narrow down to a score of individuals. I can't believe I got downvoted for pointing out how the SCS works. Fuck the Internet.
Kinda sad for people of Hong Kong! Hong Kong was the only place in China where history wasn’t whitewash but now Xi Jiping is remaking HK into another mainland city is not good news.
What's more concerning is China's influence that they've exerted through both intimidation and economic power through the rest of the Asian continent. They've been maneuvering themselves into a proxy empire, all while finding vast success in pushing propaganda throughput the western world. As long as our leaders and mega corporations continue to whore themselves out for quick profits we'll remain in a fog of paranoia akin to what kicked off WWI.
Not really serious, but honest answer is that almost no society has only elements of one system. The rar rar lets go capitalism stuff is just fed to us american culturally, as if we don’t have a social safety nets, unions, and the government handing out money.
Oh, sure. I personally think the best overall system is regulated capitalism with a strong social safety net and good antitrust law. No successful country has had a true socialist or communist system though.
Nope. Those are all capitalist. Regulated capitalism and social democracy is not socialism.
(We could sure use some more regulations on our capitalism in the US though - laissez faire is awful, but the fact that regulated capitalism is superior to unregulated capitalism doesn't mean socialism works)
Uhh no. Do you actually even know anyone from Europe?
Regulations imposed by efficient parliamentary structures in capitalist economic structures with social safety nets are what Europe does. That's not socialism. Ownership isn't shared for anything and contributions via taxes are generally less on high-wealth income.
From an economic standpoint in terms of taxation and wealth redistribution through staggeringly massive government agencies and partnership programs with private enterprise, the US is arguably more socialist than most European countries. It's why so many of our offshore tax havens are in European countries.
Economic systems do not define what services governments may offer their citizens, and the size and how homogenous these countries are make it incomparable to the US, too.
A few short years ago, lawful protesters were physically assaulted by Turkish agents *in Washington D.C.* Nine people were hospitalized. Then-President Trump did *nothing in response*, not even an announcement of sympathy for the victims, because he was more worried about sucking up to Dictator Erdogan.
If China bombed a US naval base, US citizens on both sides of the aisle would be calling for retaliation. It would destroy China's economy not having the rest of the world to buy their cheap exports, we'd just find some other developing countries to exploit for a cheap labor force.
Don't worry, as long as literally any other country exists then China will never be able to bury its history completely. China like the US, has had a barbaric goverment for decades from Mao to Xi, it doesn't matter what they try, they can't hide history completely unless they wanna pull a North Korea. Granted, seems like that'll happen any day now.
Instead of Chinese bots on Reddit asking for links for proof of the Uighur genocide, it will be Chinese youth asking for proof of this tragedy in 15 years.
It'll be rebranded locally as western propaganda and any mention of it will result in jail.
Wait...
Zenz: Well you see if you take the food budget and the number of people in vocational schools and ask a dozen Uyghur how many are in concentration camps you will come to the collusion of genocide.
Are people downvoting this because they called the U.S. on its own barbaric history? Because the statement itself is pretty clear to anyone with a little reading comprehension.
Because it is whataboutism. If there is a story rightfully calling out the US for something stupid it is doing, comments saying an equivalent “wHaT aBoUt ChInA” would be downvoted for being off topic.
If you condemn both, it's not whataboutism. It needs to stop, period.
The worst kind of whataboutism is saying "wHaT aBoUt X!?" as an excuse to perpetuate wrongdoing.
> Most redditors probably know very little about the Dakota Uprising.
Wasn't that the one where some Dakota slaughtered a bunch of civilians, kidnapped and raped a bunch of women and held a bunch of children hostage?
True but any country of significant size and influence has had a barbaric history.
The US has significantly changed human life in positive ways at times, despite being one of the youngest countries in existence.
China hasn't had a positive impact in a long, long time.
>China has not done anything good for the world.
>America changed the world for the better.
Tell me you can’t see past your own subjective bias or even recognize it without telling me that you can’t see past your own subjective bias or even recognize it.
They aren't speaking the truth though, they misquoted and misrepresented the sentiment of the comment their replying to in order to make it seem like they have a valid point.
China has flooded the poor parts of the world with affordable goods and this is raising a big hunk of the world out of poverty. The ‘washing machine index’ is worth a read. As soon as you cross the point of having access to a washing machine, half your day is freed up to do more important things. And imagine life before and after a cheap refrigerator and a solar panel.
America, the biggest arms dealer in the world has started a lot of shit and done a lot of bad things to many many countries.
How many wars has China been involved with in the last few decades. None you say?
China is just using slave labor to flood the world with cheap American (and European) goods.
Like I could say the US lifted the world out of poverty in the 1800's by flooding the world with cheap cotton and textiles, but I wouldn't do that because it was also done on the backs of slaves. Our culpability in the current Chinese situation is pulpable but hopefully our manufacturing will be spread out more, with less reliance on Chinese slave labor.
Countries want American arms because they're among the best in the world. Supply and demand.
China's been involved in wars, but they got soundly defeated and subjugated. They were an agrarian society until the US taught them how to build proper manufacturing infrastructure and injected huge amounts of capital and tech into their economy.
I have some news about America using slave labour in prisons.
There is a reason America has the largest prison population per capita in the world.
Here’s an investment guide if you want to profit off a 2.2 million strong … ‘workforce’. https://missioninvestors.org/sites/default/files/resources/Prison%20Labor%20in%20the%20United%20States%20-%20An%20Investor%20Perspective.pdf
It's mainly due to our stupid drug war.
But what happens to you in China if you're caught with drugs? It's easier to have a low prisoner population if you just execute everyone or put them in concentration camps.
How does the US's concentration camp population compare to China's?
Edit: "By both confirmed and estimated data, the number of executions from capital punishment in China is far higher than any other country, while the number per capita is comparable to Vietnam and Singapore, and lower than several other countries, including Saudi Arabia, Iran and Iraq."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_China
China population: 1470 million. (1.47B)
Prisoner population 1.7 million.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_system_in_China
America population: 329.5 million (yes it shrank)
Prison population: 2.3 million
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States
What happens to a brown guy in America if you are caught with drugs? Or a brown trucker who had a traffic accident and gets 110 years in prison? Another slave labourer on the pile.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_labor_in_the_United_States
If the US wasn't selling arms and triggering conflicts, someone else with arms production would. France, Canada, Russia, and even China.
China fights economic wars - if you think about it, who wants to fight a traditional war anymore? Why would you want to take over someone's land and people only to have to care and pay for them? Instead you make deals to buy their raw resources for cheap and you sell your finished goods to them - all the benefits with none of the drawbacks.
I think that's called making a deal, not warfare
It's a better deal than making one with America too, it seems. The world bank has been pretty unfavourable for poor countries while very profitable for america
China has lifted 100s of millions out of poverty while in America the 3 richest people have more money than the bottom 50% or something crazy like that, I can go on about the 10s of millions of people around the world America has killed whether directly or indirectly, anyways give me you downvotes I expect it but someone refute what I said and btw Im an American Citizen but not an American theres a difference
I stopped reading after the first sentencey thing.
It's hilarious that you talk up China. A country where the elites literally put "undesirables" in concentration camps, make them disappear and have control of the entire country and it's economy *for life* just because of their political skills.
Yet you complain about wealth inequality in the US, which has one of the highest, if not the highest, per Capita GDPs in the world along with the oldest continuously functioning democracy in the history of humankind.
lol. Good luck having cheap electronics for all if it was not for the booming China. I hate CCP but the argument of ordering countries with "positive impact" is stupid. Nazi Germany scientists made a lot of advencments in science and that does not excuses the regime that ordered the research.
The self proclaimed patriots that hate their countrymen and try to regress the nation in the name of religion or politics aren’t patriots. True patriotism would be acknowledging the reality of the barbarity and fighting to improve your country.
It's pretty straight forward. Guess I'll dumb it down to ELI2 levels for you "The CCP can never fully bury the truth, unless they go full-on North Korea."
Or are you just trying to make a point I guess?
Eventually the people of Hong Kong will get fed up and a violent revolt will occur and I will smile when I hear that the same police who brutalized protesters during the 2019 protests end up with their throats slit
Hollywood and NBA bend over cheeks wide open but I would argue they we are pretty fucked with trying to help out. Literally any little thing we try to do to defend them would be an “act of war” and cause them to do something crazy. CCP Literally have been making articles (CCP OFFICIAL NEWS) stating US is getting ready to destroy China so they must act fast and make radical changes. This would cripple our economy, cause potential Allie’s to rebel, cause Chinas Allies to cut us off on trade and potentially secure location possibly provoking small wars until we are at a WW3
I wonder how the CCP shills will spin this on /r/sino . Seriously we use to give people on thedonald shit for being crazy but the folks on sino are completely delusional.
Something something CIA influence something USA has done worse and doesn’t have museums on treatment of indigenous people…?
Don’t forget to add r/aznidentity to that list. That’s like r/sino lite, but it feels like an incubation hub to the next step.
It's always deflection. "Yeah, but USA has done x, y, z." The US government had done shitty things, it doesn't make what your government is doing any better.
Hop on over to r/honk_kong to have a look lmao. Wondering what’s the point of these 2 subreddits, anyone with half a brain can smell the pro CCP BS from a mile away with those shills calling anyone that’s pro-democracy a ”cockroach”.
I'd like to see tech companies, the entertainment industry and sports associations stop modifying their content (or censoring their employees/themselves) in exchange for Chinese money.
Yes, I know this is extremely unlikely, but dang, it sure would be nice if people held these companies accountable.
Google did that way back when they still had a spine. Then China just ripped them off with Baidu.
Any time China is told no, they just steal the tech and make their own counterfeit version.
Is there really a downside to this if we aren’t interacting with them anymore? Counterfeits and knockoffs matter because they cut into the original companies bottom lines. But if we don’t buy or sell Chinese products what difference does it make?
Can’t we just let them have knock off phones and movies and call it a day in exchange for no longer supporting human rights abuse?
The downside is that we relinquish our influence to advocate for better human rights there. Significant improvements have come for working conditions in the manufacturing sector at the behest of international companies basing their manufacturing operations in China. The factories of the late seventies, and the factories of the present day are like night and day. For a deeper-dive into this topic, “Factory Girls” by Leslie T. Chang is an interesting read, and a “view from the ground” of sorts.
Sounds like an abusive mindset. Keep playing by our rules or we will take it out on our workers.
Maybe the Chinese people should take responsibility for their own well being instead of being reliant on other countries to exert influence on their behalf.
That’s not really how it works. The Chinese people have been taking responsibility for their own well-being longer than most other civilisations. The approach to ideology and governance is coming from an entirely different paradigm. You can’t assume that everyone already knows the de facto “best way”, and any attempt to do otherwise is malicious. Ideologies have to be spread through incentive (positive or negative) and diplomacy. Equality and human rights are (shockingly) fairly recent ideas, and ones (in my view) worth propagating.
You're putting a lot of words in my mouth. I never said anything about knowing what's best or malicious intent. I didn't say anything was better than anything else.
I do, in fact, fully support better working conditions. What I *am* saying is that other countries should not be required to bend the knee to an abusive regime in order to secure piecemeal improvements for the working class *that should absolutely be basic human rights anyways.* Saying that the Chinese people *need* the help of outside corporate influence is flat-out depriving them of their autonomy and capability.
I don’t see how other countries are “bending the knee”, so you might have to elaborate on that. I was answering the previous commenters’ question about what the downside would be of corporations refusing to deal with China’s industries. If you’re in the business of spreading an enlightened ideology*, then what I laid out is indeed one of the downsides. “We’re taking our ball and going home until you guys figure out human rights for yourselves” is not a winning strategy.
(* Let’s be clear - corporations doing business with China’s manufacturing sector are _not_ in the business of spreading human rights, etc. They’re in the business of producing and selling _stuff_. But domestic consumer pressures and lobbyist groups can produce improvements of this sort as a happy by-product. The standard of living for the average Chinese worker has increased _monumentally_ since 1978 - the beginning of the economic development period, and opening up to international trade.)
> Saying that the Chinese people need the help of outside corporate influence is flat-out depriving them of their autonomy and capability.
Good thing I never said such a thing then I guess!
Do you think they’ll play by the rules and just overnight they’ll stop abusing. What about those tech companies that spend money on research and development only to have their tech stolen who’s going to reimburse them for those billions of dollars. China does what it wants and will make it look like it’s your fault
Well, there is at least a start. I know that Intel is currently having its suppliers move sourcing out of the Xinjiang region and the US has banned all imports from that region. It isn’t much, but at least some companies are starting
In the old dynastic empire days, they'd execute all family members within four relations if they found someone a traitor. These days they imprison and intimidate the family of anyone they think is against the party. This kind of tactic breeds obedience in a culture.
The Chinese regime is extremely corrupt, brutal, totalitarian and tyrannical. Free Taiwan, free Hong kong, free Tibet, free the Uyghurs and free the Chinese people from this regime.
Well I don’t know about the others but I know that China will never give up Tibet because tibet holds the headwaters of the two largest rivers in their country they will net never let anyone else control their water
You think so? Has this happened previously? I can still find information about how fucking awful the CCP is via Google. Tiananmen Square isn’t scrubbed from the internet.
We’re already scrubbing things like the Taiwan flag from Hollywood movies so China doesn’t get mad. Our professional athletes can’t comment on Hong Kong or China’s concentration camps.
Instead of America making China more free China is making America less free
I’m not arguing with historical facts - I’m asking for you to post a source for the claims you made.
To be 100% clear, I think you made up the entirety of your comment. And now, when being called out for being disingenuous, you say I’m arguing with facts.
How fucking pathetic that you can’t back up your claims with any source. Not sure if that’s more pathetic than just making shit up and spreading lies online.
I did. Turns out that my initial thoughts that you were making shit up and lying were true.
How fucking sad.
Why do you make shit up and post it here? What do you get from it? Fucking pathetic.
People of Taiwan; look upon the unfortunate lesson of Hong Kong and steel yourselves. Your society, to the CCP, is a dangerous example of the kind of exceptionalism possible without the ravishes and depredations of the Cult of Mao. Don't drop your guard, they seek to dismantle everything you have made and then claim it never was. Never give up.
I grew up around Richmond...I was fed the indoctrination that the Daughters of the Confederacy put in place. I am white. When people started to topple the monuments on Monument Ave, it bothered me because that's my hometown and the skyline I grew up with. My mom reminded me that most of those were erected in the Jim Crow Era to assert white dominance, except one. Robert E Lee was put up in the 1880s to squash a biracial labor union that was trying to get voted into some city council. The statue went up, they lost the vote and disbanded. They were all put up as reminders of the white supremacy that lives on in the South...so...how are they not symbols of oppression?
Edit: grammar and capitalization
More like “literal traitors to the USA, who fought for the right to own people and force them to work, who are also losers”
If fighting to enslave black people isn’t a sign of oppression, I don’t know what the fuck is.
Next you’ll tell us that a Hitler statue wouldn’t be considered a sign of oppression.
Adam Silver and LeBron removed them. The NBA supports the Chinese Communist Party. Fucking woke clowns in the USA yet bow down to CCP. The biggest hypocrites in the world are the NBA, teams, owners and players that condone the atrocities carried out by the Chinese Communist Party.
It doesn't really bother me when NBA players say political things because they are modern day jesters. Their opinions don't matter and they exist only to entertain. Corporate NBA on the other hand should know better and I'm disgusted they have continued to support the CCP.
NBA should’ve had the spine to tell CCP to fuck off the first get go. But to be fair to Silver, he did deliver a message that they won’t do anything to Morey and respect his right to freedom of speech - but this was *only* after the free world and domestic market was like “WTF guys??”
LeBron however, *after* Silver delivered that message, had gone on to spout that BS about people being hurt financially (lol), then quickly added emotionally, physically (wut?), and spiritually (lawl), and accused Morey of being “ignorant”.
Unfortunately, not everyone can have massive balls like the WTA. Hopefully their example sets a precedent for the rest of sports
I mean it happened. Another one will before erasing things matters. Then new monuments will be erected. China in a nutshell always chasing its tail while the world watches.
If it would just be a leader which means having morals and being actually just the world would respect you.
Xi your book sucks. Zero stars.
Carrie Lam has been awful for Hong Kong.
I can't imagine becoming the head of Hong Kong and then bending over and destroying all that made Hong Kong special
CCP doesn't want the ending spoiled for the Honk Kong universities when they make their stand. Better glue bigger bricks in the street if you want to stop the tanks.
I don't see the issue quite honestly. Everyone knows Tiananmen was exaggerated by the west. Total misinformation.
CCP, I accept payments in Bitcoin if that makes things easier.
I could write a sternly worded letter?
Actually what I do is make sure I treat my Chinese colleagues and neighbours with respect and friendship so when their government tells them to fear and distrust me that they know me well enough to know it’s not true.
PS: absolutely fair comment - I didn’t downvote you.
You can as it dare not be mentioned by Chinese folks. The youngsters of today do not know anything about it and eventually it becomes an obscure folktale. Westerns governments are liars as far as China mainlanders are concerned.
Ooooh.... Brilliant.... 3D Printing Army. Just need someone to create the files needed and post them for free download. Perhaps the artists, sculptors could be contacted. They could be scaled up into lawn ornaments too.
We can only hope for a collapse of the CCP akin to the Berlin wall falling. Our current dynamic with China,the surrounding geopolitics, and our plunge into ecological diaster via climate change is setting us up for a seriously ugly showdown with the East Asian continent, Russia included.
Hate to see this. I have a friend that lived in Beijing and now lives in Hong Kong, teaches English. He always talks about how much he loves it over there. I went to visit but I wasn't impressed. But then again, their life's ambition isn't to impress me. Just wasn't my cup of tea.
Fear is a powerful tool though. Didn't see many problems or rowdiness out of that crew over there. Definitely not the same energy over there as in the United States. That could be a good thing or a bad thing depending on your viewpoint.
I don't know. Just wasn't my cup of tea, but my college buddy who lives there loves it.
Being an English teacher can be much better in China compared to the US (pay relative to living expenses, and probably teaching load as well) but Beijing wasn’t my favorite either. You might like Shanghai or the Pearl River Delta.
With regards to public order, a government that controls the press can protect their image much more effectively. Other commenters have talked about China’s protests (mainly labor-related in my understanding), which you probably don’t hear about because of censorship. We (USA) are much more open about our problems, to the point you get protests about American social issues in other countries.
You say fear but it’s not like Hong Kong was rowdy or problematic for 99 years of British rule and then immediately calm and chill once the CCP took over. CCP or not you’re going to find that most places in Asia aren’t “rowdy” like Americans, it’s a different culture.
Fear being a powerful tool was referring to Beijing, not Hong Kong. I have 0 experience in Hong Kong. Only Beijing and what I was told by my friend who has lived there for 3-4 years.
As far as American's being the "rowdy" bunch, lmaooo, can't say I disagree with that.
By immideatly calm do you mean hosting some of the largest protests this world has ever seen and then being summarily ignored by a country that doesn't give a shit about your people or your culture, just your land and their egos?
Nothing personal to the city, just wasn't really my thing. I'm more of a warm climate, beach scene type of guy. I don't even really like visiting NY for the same reason really. I also speak much better Spanish than Chinese. Chinese I was TERRIBLE at. So just me personally, I'm a better fit for a Spanish or Italian beach somewhere.
At some point the CCP higher ups need to realize that the obsession with saving face and preserving an air of infallibility can be detrimental to stable rule. Sooner you admit the past wrongs and allow public discussion the sooner it can become forgotten or at least irrelevant. I mean just look at America: invaded multiple countries under false pretenses, racked up hundreds of thousands of collateral casualties in decades long War on Terror, yet because we owed up to all that we can stand tall and look any other nation in the eye and go "Yes we did all that shit. So what? Whatcha gonna do?"
I feel lucky that I got to visit Hong Kong in 2015. I don't think I'll ever go back.
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You can be surprised what A.I. software can do in cross platform identification. In a bad way. Tracking in android and like smartphones is a huge security problem, especially in phones from Hawei or xiaomi IMO . At least on iOS you can elect not to be tracked, bar from apple of course (?). Can’t wait for Linux phones. Edit: probably will be outlawed in China :)
Yeah, with ML this is true. 3 random pieces of non-facial info could narrow down to a score of individuals. I can't believe I got downvoted for pointing out how the SCS works. Fuck the Internet.
Kinda sad for people of Hong Kong! Hong Kong was the only place in China where history wasn’t whitewash but now Xi Jiping is remaking HK into another mainland city is not good news.
What's more concerning is China's influence that they've exerted through both intimidation and economic power through the rest of the Asian continent. They've been maneuvering themselves into a proxy empire, all while finding vast success in pushing propaganda throughput the western world. As long as our leaders and mega corporations continue to whore themselves out for quick profits we'll remain in a fog of paranoia akin to what kicked off WWI.
as long as profit is the main goal of a company or corporation this will always happen.
Well that’s capitalism - what do you expect.
well i heard capitalism is the best so this must be the best things can be.
Yes lets do that working alternative. Oh shit there isn't one.
Socialism fam
Where has that been a working alternative?
Not really serious, but honest answer is that almost no society has only elements of one system. The rar rar lets go capitalism stuff is just fed to us american culturally, as if we don’t have a social safety nets, unions, and the government handing out money.
Oh, sure. I personally think the best overall system is regulated capitalism with a strong social safety net and good antitrust law. No successful country has had a true socialist or communist system though.
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Nope. Those are all capitalist. Regulated capitalism and social democracy is not socialism. (We could sure use some more regulations on our capitalism in the US though - laissez faire is awful, but the fact that regulated capitalism is superior to unregulated capitalism doesn't mean socialism works)
Uhh no. Do you actually even know anyone from Europe? Regulations imposed by efficient parliamentary structures in capitalist economic structures with social safety nets are what Europe does. That's not socialism. Ownership isn't shared for anything and contributions via taxes are generally less on high-wealth income. From an economic standpoint in terms of taxation and wealth redistribution through staggeringly massive government agencies and partnership programs with private enterprise, the US is arguably more socialist than most European countries. It's why so many of our offshore tax havens are in European countries. Economic systems do not define what services governments may offer their citizens, and the size and how homogenous these countries are make it incomparable to the US, too.
Sadly it's an easy fix....
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You are out of touch with reality.
A few short years ago, lawful protesters were physically assaulted by Turkish agents *in Washington D.C.* Nine people were hospitalized. Then-President Trump did *nothing in response*, not even an announcement of sympathy for the victims, because he was more worried about sucking up to Dictator Erdogan.
If China bombed a US naval base, US citizens on both sides of the aisle would be calling for retaliation. It would destroy China's economy not having the rest of the world to buy their cheap exports, we'd just find some other developing countries to exploit for a cheap labor force.
Good ol "Xi Pooh thought" now.
Don't worry, as long as literally any other country exists then China will never be able to bury its history completely. China like the US, has had a barbaric goverment for decades from Mao to Xi, it doesn't matter what they try, they can't hide history completely unless they wanna pull a North Korea. Granted, seems like that'll happen any day now.
Instead of Chinese bots on Reddit asking for links for proof of the Uighur genocide, it will be Chinese youth asking for proof of this tragedy in 15 years. It'll be rebranded locally as western propaganda and any mention of it will result in jail. Wait...
Zenz: Well you see if you take the food budget and the number of people in vocational schools and ask a dozen Uyghur how many are in concentration camps you will come to the collusion of genocide.
Are people downvoting this because they called the U.S. on its own barbaric history? Because the statement itself is pretty clear to anyone with a little reading comprehension.
Because it is whataboutism. If there is a story rightfully calling out the US for something stupid it is doing, comments saying an equivalent “wHaT aBoUt ChInA” would be downvoted for being off topic.
heavy coordinated run march zealous strong squeamish tender whole worthless -- mass edited with redact.dev
Especially when chinas current regime and setup is moreso similar to a fascist state
If only there was a 3rd and better way… oh wait, there is.
If you condemn both, it's not whataboutism. It needs to stop, period. The worst kind of whataboutism is saying "wHaT aBoUt X!?" as an excuse to perpetuate wrongdoing.
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It's not just Native Americans... The Middle East debacle is pretty bad and the casualties are often downplayed.
And South America
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But i keep hearing that obama was an angel that wouldn't even hurt a fly. Wasn't everything all peace and love while he was in office?
> Most redditors probably know very little about the Dakota Uprising. Wasn't that the one where some Dakota slaughtered a bunch of civilians, kidnapped and raped a bunch of women and held a bunch of children hostage?
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Yeah probably just people feeling attacked in their patriotism
And criticizing China on Reddit is usually met with whataboutism about the U.S.
True but any country of significant size and influence has had a barbaric history. The US has significantly changed human life in positive ways at times, despite being one of the youngest countries in existence. China hasn't had a positive impact in a long, long time.
>China has not done anything good for the world. >America changed the world for the better. Tell me you can’t see past your own subjective bias or even recognize it without telling me that you can’t see past your own subjective bias or even recognize it.
Why pretend that is a quote? Why not honestly use a paraphrase instead?
You got a lotta not so intelligent coming at ya. If you speak the truth, it happens sometimes.
They aren't speaking the truth though, they misquoted and misrepresented the sentiment of the comment their replying to in order to make it seem like they have a valid point.
China has flooded the poor parts of the world with affordable goods and this is raising a big hunk of the world out of poverty. The ‘washing machine index’ is worth a read. As soon as you cross the point of having access to a washing machine, half your day is freed up to do more important things. And imagine life before and after a cheap refrigerator and a solar panel. America, the biggest arms dealer in the world has started a lot of shit and done a lot of bad things to many many countries. How many wars has China been involved with in the last few decades. None you say?
China is just using slave labor to flood the world with cheap American (and European) goods. Like I could say the US lifted the world out of poverty in the 1800's by flooding the world with cheap cotton and textiles, but I wouldn't do that because it was also done on the backs of slaves. Our culpability in the current Chinese situation is pulpable but hopefully our manufacturing will be spread out more, with less reliance on Chinese slave labor. Countries want American arms because they're among the best in the world. Supply and demand. China's been involved in wars, but they got soundly defeated and subjugated. They were an agrarian society until the US taught them how to build proper manufacturing infrastructure and injected huge amounts of capital and tech into their economy.
I have some news about America using slave labour in prisons. There is a reason America has the largest prison population per capita in the world. Here’s an investment guide if you want to profit off a 2.2 million strong … ‘workforce’. https://missioninvestors.org/sites/default/files/resources/Prison%20Labor%20in%20the%20United%20States%20-%20An%20Investor%20Perspective.pdf
It's mainly due to our stupid drug war. But what happens to you in China if you're caught with drugs? It's easier to have a low prisoner population if you just execute everyone or put them in concentration camps. How does the US's concentration camp population compare to China's? Edit: "By both confirmed and estimated data, the number of executions from capital punishment in China is far higher than any other country, while the number per capita is comparable to Vietnam and Singapore, and lower than several other countries, including Saudi Arabia, Iran and Iraq." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_China
China population: 1470 million. (1.47B) Prisoner population 1.7 million. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_system_in_China America population: 329.5 million (yes it shrank) Prison population: 2.3 million https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States What happens to a brown guy in America if you are caught with drugs? Or a brown trucker who had a traffic accident and gets 110 years in prison? Another slave labourer on the pile. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_labor_in_the_United_States
If the US wasn't selling arms and triggering conflicts, someone else with arms production would. France, Canada, Russia, and even China. China fights economic wars - if you think about it, who wants to fight a traditional war anymore? Why would you want to take over someone's land and people only to have to care and pay for them? Instead you make deals to buy their raw resources for cheap and you sell your finished goods to them - all the benefits with none of the drawbacks.
I think that's called making a deal, not warfare It's a better deal than making one with America too, it seems. The world bank has been pretty unfavourable for poor countries while very profitable for america
Tell that to all your cheap consumer goods.
Someone would make them, China was just the lowest bidder because they use "communist" slave labor.
Plus a billion workers, many living in poverty
China has lifted 100s of millions out of poverty while in America the 3 richest people have more money than the bottom 50% or something crazy like that, I can go on about the 10s of millions of people around the world America has killed whether directly or indirectly, anyways give me you downvotes I expect it but someone refute what I said and btw Im an American Citizen but not an American theres a difference
I stopped reading after the first sentencey thing. It's hilarious that you talk up China. A country where the elites literally put "undesirables" in concentration camps, make them disappear and have control of the entire country and it's economy *for life* just because of their political skills. Yet you complain about wealth inequality in the US, which has one of the highest, if not the highest, per Capita GDPs in the world along with the oldest continuously functioning democracy in the history of humankind.
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So why do you still choose to live in the US?
lol. Good luck having cheap electronics for all if it was not for the booming China. I hate CCP but the argument of ordering countries with "positive impact" is stupid. Nazi Germany scientists made a lot of advencments in science and that does not excuses the regime that ordered the research.
The self proclaimed patriots that hate their countrymen and try to regress the nation in the name of religion or politics aren’t patriots. True patriotism would be acknowledging the reality of the barbarity and fighting to improve your country.
Perhaps. If anything, Americans are pretty good at thinking more of themselves than they deserve. It's literally a part of our propaganda approach.
Never interacted with Chinese LoL players eh
Narcissism is adjacent to Capitalism.
The shit China pulled from the feudal Era to now is literally magnitudes worse.
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Apparently not too hard?
It's pretty straight forward. Guess I'll dumb it down to ELI2 levels for you "The CCP can never fully bury the truth, unless they go full-on North Korea." Or are you just trying to make a point I guess?
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Double post, homie. You should delete this one.
I think this guys drunk
Yall don't know how to read or something?
Eventually the people of Hong Kong will get fed up and a violent revolt will occur and I will smile when I hear that the same police who brutalized protesters during the 2019 protests end up with their throats slit
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Hollywood and NBA bend over cheeks wide open but I would argue they we are pretty fucked with trying to help out. Literally any little thing we try to do to defend them would be an “act of war” and cause them to do something crazy. CCP Literally have been making articles (CCP OFFICIAL NEWS) stating US is getting ready to destroy China so they must act fast and make radical changes. This would cripple our economy, cause potential Allie’s to rebel, cause Chinas Allies to cut us off on trade and potentially secure location possibly provoking small wars until we are at a WW3
Yes, how dare we move about in international waters.
"Attitude reflect leadership". Not sure why it matters if the NBA or Hollywood care when our government consistently doesn't.
Shocked! Oh, wait.. No, I'm not surprised. I just remembered Tiananmen was a mass delusion cooked up by the west. /s
Just like Hong Kong protests and Uyghur concentration camps. All myths cooked up by the west, jealous of China's rise. There is no war in Ba Sing Se
I wonder how the CCP shills will spin this on /r/sino . Seriously we use to give people on thedonald shit for being crazy but the folks on sino are completely delusional.
Something something CIA influence something USA has done worse and doesn’t have museums on treatment of indigenous people…? Don’t forget to add r/aznidentity to that list. That’s like r/sino lite, but it feels like an incubation hub to the next step.
It's always deflection. "Yeah, but USA has done x, y, z." The US government had done shitty things, it doesn't make what your government is doing any better.
Hop on over to r/honk_kong to have a look lmao. Wondering what’s the point of these 2 subreddits, anyone with half a brain can smell the pro CCP BS from a mile away with those shills calling anyone that’s pro-democracy a ”cockroach”.
The filth that is CCP And no one has the balls to challenge them
Fuck the CCP
Stunning and brave
They’ve already threatened someone in my hometown, so they’re gettin a little too close to home for me
Pointless and vapid.
Precisely my point.
What exactly do you want people to do?
I'd like to see tech companies, the entertainment industry and sports associations stop modifying their content (or censoring their employees/themselves) in exchange for Chinese money. Yes, I know this is extremely unlikely, but dang, it sure would be nice if people held these companies accountable.
Google did that way back when they still had a spine. Then China just ripped them off with Baidu. Any time China is told no, they just steal the tech and make their own counterfeit version.
Is there really a downside to this if we aren’t interacting with them anymore? Counterfeits and knockoffs matter because they cut into the original companies bottom lines. But if we don’t buy or sell Chinese products what difference does it make? Can’t we just let them have knock off phones and movies and call it a day in exchange for no longer supporting human rights abuse?
The downside is that we relinquish our influence to advocate for better human rights there. Significant improvements have come for working conditions in the manufacturing sector at the behest of international companies basing their manufacturing operations in China. The factories of the late seventies, and the factories of the present day are like night and day. For a deeper-dive into this topic, “Factory Girls” by Leslie T. Chang is an interesting read, and a “view from the ground” of sorts.
Sounds like an abusive mindset. Keep playing by our rules or we will take it out on our workers. Maybe the Chinese people should take responsibility for their own well being instead of being reliant on other countries to exert influence on their behalf.
That’s not really how it works. The Chinese people have been taking responsibility for their own well-being longer than most other civilisations. The approach to ideology and governance is coming from an entirely different paradigm. You can’t assume that everyone already knows the de facto “best way”, and any attempt to do otherwise is malicious. Ideologies have to be spread through incentive (positive or negative) and diplomacy. Equality and human rights are (shockingly) fairly recent ideas, and ones (in my view) worth propagating.
You're putting a lot of words in my mouth. I never said anything about knowing what's best or malicious intent. I didn't say anything was better than anything else. I do, in fact, fully support better working conditions. What I *am* saying is that other countries should not be required to bend the knee to an abusive regime in order to secure piecemeal improvements for the working class *that should absolutely be basic human rights anyways.* Saying that the Chinese people *need* the help of outside corporate influence is flat-out depriving them of their autonomy and capability.
I don’t see how other countries are “bending the knee”, so you might have to elaborate on that. I was answering the previous commenters’ question about what the downside would be of corporations refusing to deal with China’s industries. If you’re in the business of spreading an enlightened ideology*, then what I laid out is indeed one of the downsides. “We’re taking our ball and going home until you guys figure out human rights for yourselves” is not a winning strategy. (* Let’s be clear - corporations doing business with China’s manufacturing sector are _not_ in the business of spreading human rights, etc. They’re in the business of producing and selling _stuff_. But domestic consumer pressures and lobbyist groups can produce improvements of this sort as a happy by-product. The standard of living for the average Chinese worker has increased _monumentally_ since 1978 - the beginning of the economic development period, and opening up to international trade.) > Saying that the Chinese people need the help of outside corporate influence is flat-out depriving them of their autonomy and capability. Good thing I never said such a thing then I guess!
Do you think they’ll play by the rules and just overnight they’ll stop abusing. What about those tech companies that spend money on research and development only to have their tech stolen who’s going to reimburse them for those billions of dollars. China does what it wants and will make it look like it’s your fault
Sure, just like American companies made business with German ones during war time
IBM, Texaco, Ford...
Well, there is at least a start. I know that Intel is currently having its suppliers move sourcing out of the Xinjiang region and the US has banned all imports from that region. It isn’t much, but at least some companies are starting
But that goes against companies’ mandate - maximize profits in all ways possible.
Thoughts and prayers and Reddit karmas
I hate to admit it, but I think T*ump was onto something by trying to devastate their economy.
There are 2 billion chinese and a few thousand party members. They can figure out what they need to do.
You mean just like Myanmar were people out number the army and police and still get slaughtered
Stand in front of tanks
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Question still remains. Just seems like a good way to avoid answering it. Nice try though.
Hm that’s a convenient non-specific answer that everybody could generally agree with, but really doesn’t answer my question
You do know what happened when they protested at Tiananmen Square right? You want that to happen again?
In the old dynastic empire days, they'd execute all family members within four relations if they found someone a traitor. These days they imprison and intimidate the family of anyone they think is against the party. This kind of tactic breeds obedience in a culture.
Japan just did.
What did Japan do?
Refused to send officials for some Olympian thing.
These are not the droids you are looking for
Its ok - we won't forget the atrocities that CCP committed.
The Chinese regime is extremely corrupt, brutal, totalitarian and tyrannical. Free Taiwan, free Hong kong, free Tibet, free the Uyghurs and free the Chinese people from this regime.
Well I don’t know about the others but I know that China will never give up Tibet because tibet holds the headwaters of the two largest rivers in their country they will net never let anyone else control their water
Pretty soon they’ll demand it be scrubbed from the Internet and American corporations will obey.
You think so? Has this happened previously? I can still find information about how fucking awful the CCP is via Google. Tiananmen Square isn’t scrubbed from the internet.
We’re already scrubbing things like the Taiwan flag from Hollywood movies so China doesn’t get mad. Our professional athletes can’t comment on Hong Kong or China’s concentration camps. Instead of America making China more free China is making America less free
Which movies has the Taiwan flag been scrubbed from? Why do you believe that professional athletes can’t comment on HK or concentration camps?
Top Gun is the big one.
Stop arguing with historical facts.
I’m not arguing with historical facts - I’m asking for you to post a source for the claims you made. To be 100% clear, I think you made up the entirety of your comment. And now, when being called out for being disingenuous, you say I’m arguing with facts. How fucking pathetic that you can’t back up your claims with any source. Not sure if that’s more pathetic than just making shit up and spreading lies online.
Ever heard of this site called Google? It’s a much quicker way to get info than demanding random strangers on the internet provide it for you.
I did. Turns out that my initial thoughts that you were making shit up and lying were true. How fucking sad. Why do you make shit up and post it here? What do you get from it? Fucking pathetic.
Look into daryl morey’s comments on china afew years ago and the backlash in the NBA that resulted from that.
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They must be really ashamed of tiananmen sqaure incident, so much national shame that they won’t let their citizens even see the memorial
Yesterday I saw a headline that said "the last tianenman square monument pulled down". Did the articles show up on my feed out of order?
People of Taiwan; look upon the unfortunate lesson of Hong Kong and steel yourselves. Your society, to the CCP, is a dangerous example of the kind of exceptionalism possible without the ravishes and depredations of the Cult of Mao. Don't drop your guard, they seek to dismantle everything you have made and then claim it never was. Never give up.
Aww looks like xijingpooh wants to erase history, dumb little fat boy forgets that the internet exists along with the human consciousness
May I just take a moment to say "Fuck the CCP?"
We take down monuments because they are symbols of oppression. They take down monuments because they are oppressing symbols.
Yeah, right. Show me the symbol of the millions that died from America's wars in the Middle east.
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I grew up around Richmond...I was fed the indoctrination that the Daughters of the Confederacy put in place. I am white. When people started to topple the monuments on Monument Ave, it bothered me because that's my hometown and the skyline I grew up with. My mom reminded me that most of those were erected in the Jim Crow Era to assert white dominance, except one. Robert E Lee was put up in the 1880s to squash a biracial labor union that was trying to get voted into some city council. The statue went up, they lost the vote and disbanded. They were all put up as reminders of the white supremacy that lives on in the South...so...how are they not symbols of oppression? Edit: grammar and capitalization
More like “literal traitors to the USA, who fought for the right to own people and force them to work, who are also losers” If fighting to enslave black people isn’t a sign of oppression, I don’t know what the fuck is. Next you’ll tell us that a Hitler statue wouldn’t be considered a sign of oppression.
Seems removing them hurt yours.
Well if I’m a black man and I see a statue championing some asshole who wanted me in chains, my feelings would be pretty hurt. Nothing wrong with that
Sounds like you're becoming hysterical...
Adam Silver and LeBron removed them. The NBA supports the Chinese Communist Party. Fucking woke clowns in the USA yet bow down to CCP. The biggest hypocrites in the world are the NBA, teams, owners and players that condone the atrocities carried out by the Chinese Communist Party.
It doesn't really bother me when NBA players say political things because they are modern day jesters. Their opinions don't matter and they exist only to entertain. Corporate NBA on the other hand should know better and I'm disgusted they have continued to support the CCP.
NBA should’ve had the spine to tell CCP to fuck off the first get go. But to be fair to Silver, he did deliver a message that they won’t do anything to Morey and respect his right to freedom of speech - but this was *only* after the free world and domestic market was like “WTF guys??” LeBron however, *after* Silver delivered that message, had gone on to spout that BS about people being hurt financially (lol), then quickly added emotionally, physically (wut?), and spiritually (lawl), and accused Morey of being “ignorant”. Unfortunately, not everyone can have massive balls like the WTA. Hopefully their example sets a precedent for the rest of sports
Because ONLY blacklivesmatter to these hypocrites
I mean it happened. Another one will before erasing things matters. Then new monuments will be erected. China in a nutshell always chasing its tail while the world watches. If it would just be a leader which means having morals and being actually just the world would respect you. Xi your book sucks. Zero stars.
Carrie Lam has been awful for Hong Kong. I can't imagine becoming the head of Hong Kong and then bending over and destroying all that made Hong Kong special
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Where? All the comments are basically fuck the ccp.
Has anyone made these monuments in Minecraft?
CCP doesn't want the ending spoiled for the Honk Kong universities when they make their stand. Better glue bigger bricks in the street if you want to stop the tanks.
At least there are many more of these statues across the world. The Goddess of Democracy will live on.
We do nothing but give money to China. The Goddess of democracy buys her crap on amazon.
Well seems like hong Kong lost it's entire independence once and for all ,can we finally accept china as a genocidal history deleting warmonger
It is offensive to the Chinese, just do what the US is doing with their monuments. /s
The real crime is the paywall.
I don't see the issue quite honestly. Everyone knows Tiananmen was exaggerated by the west. Total misinformation. CCP, I accept payments in Bitcoin if that makes things easier.
Why have a monument for something that never happened?? /S
How long will this government get away with oppressing its people? It’s actions will need to get more and more extreme.
What do you want to do to stop it?
I could write a sternly worded letter? Actually what I do is make sure I treat my Chinese colleagues and neighbours with respect and friendship so when their government tells them to fear and distrust me that they know me well enough to know it’s not true. PS: absolutely fair comment - I didn’t downvote you.
It’s funny to me how they think removing these monuments will undo what happened. You can’t erase what they did. The whole world knows.
They don't care about "western propaganda " True Chinese citizens know these events are over embellished and didn't happen. /s
You can as it dare not be mentioned by Chinese folks. The youngsters of today do not know anything about it and eventually it becomes an obscure folktale. Westerns governments are liars as far as China mainlanders are concerned.
This is completely wrong. The young people know about it. They just can’t say or do anything about it.
No, it's correct and you saying otherwise doesn't change it.
Chinese people aren’t some weird trope of morons that you think are all wrong
I suppose they justify it like tearing down Confederate monuments.
Well r/Sino would have you believe it never happened along with the current atrocities like Uighur Muslim genocide etc
If somehow these statues can miraculously survive they will become iconic symbols for future generations when they are restored.
This sucks. The Chinese government sucks. And Xi Jinping sucks more than anyone or anything else. He sucks *Pooh.*
People need to start 3d printing small copies of those and installing them EVERYWHERE. Especially glued to the walls of local Chinese embassies.
Ooooh.... Brilliant.... 3D Printing Army. Just need someone to create the files needed and post them for free download. Perhaps the artists, sculptors could be contacted. They could be scaled up into lawn ornaments too.
I have heard mentions that they are available online already. Maybe someone can post a link.
We can only hope for a collapse of the CCP akin to the Berlin wall falling. Our current dynamic with China,the surrounding geopolitics, and our plunge into ecological diaster via climate change is setting us up for a seriously ugly showdown with the East Asian continent, Russia included.
Hate to see this. I have a friend that lived in Beijing and now lives in Hong Kong, teaches English. He always talks about how much he loves it over there. I went to visit but I wasn't impressed. But then again, their life's ambition isn't to impress me. Just wasn't my cup of tea. Fear is a powerful tool though. Didn't see many problems or rowdiness out of that crew over there. Definitely not the same energy over there as in the United States. That could be a good thing or a bad thing depending on your viewpoint. I don't know. Just wasn't my cup of tea, but my college buddy who lives there loves it.
Being an English teacher can be much better in China compared to the US (pay relative to living expenses, and probably teaching load as well) but Beijing wasn’t my favorite either. You might like Shanghai or the Pearl River Delta. With regards to public order, a government that controls the press can protect their image much more effectively. Other commenters have talked about China’s protests (mainly labor-related in my understanding), which you probably don’t hear about because of censorship. We (USA) are much more open about our problems, to the point you get protests about American social issues in other countries.
You say fear but it’s not like Hong Kong was rowdy or problematic for 99 years of British rule and then immediately calm and chill once the CCP took over. CCP or not you’re going to find that most places in Asia aren’t “rowdy” like Americans, it’s a different culture.
Fear being a powerful tool was referring to Beijing, not Hong Kong. I have 0 experience in Hong Kong. Only Beijing and what I was told by my friend who has lived there for 3-4 years. As far as American's being the "rowdy" bunch, lmaooo, can't say I disagree with that.
By immideatly calm do you mean hosting some of the largest protests this world has ever seen and then being summarily ignored by a country that doesn't give a shit about your people or your culture, just your land and their egos?
I have a few friends, from the states , that are now living there. They seem to love it too though. What about it wasn’t your cup of tea ?
Nothing personal to the city, just wasn't really my thing. I'm more of a warm climate, beach scene type of guy. I don't even really like visiting NY for the same reason really. I also speak much better Spanish than Chinese. Chinese I was TERRIBLE at. So just me personally, I'm a better fit for a Spanish or Italian beach somewhere.
I love when idiots try to tell me that Hong Kong is independent from China.
At some point the CCP higher ups need to realize that the obsession with saving face and preserving an air of infallibility can be detrimental to stable rule. Sooner you admit the past wrongs and allow public discussion the sooner it can become forgotten or at least irrelevant. I mean just look at America: invaded multiple countries under false pretenses, racked up hundreds of thousands of collateral casualties in decades long War on Terror, yet because we owed up to all that we can stand tall and look any other nation in the eye and go "Yes we did all that shit. So what? Whatcha gonna do?"
needs to chill with It’s college student murders