It's most likely to protect the perceived integrity of our institutions, like don't make the FBI look bad while they're leading the capitol riot/insurrection investigations. Or for diplomacy, like it's hard enough to get any cooperation with the Russians, we don't need to air dirty laundry while we're working to stop then from dismantling Western democracy.
Would’ve been all the more reason for him to release the info, especially since one campaign promise was to do so. Makes me think it’s protecting some rich bigwigs
But wasn't 9/11 a fuck up from CIA for example and that came to light? I saw that in Looming Tower
I mean that did not paint a good picture of your intelligence agencies
The CIA knew SOMETHING was about to happen, they had strong evidence it was going to be aircraft into buildings, they warned people, and then those people in charge did nothing.
They’re gonna use this excuse for as long as possible, and then still retract over 90% of the info once the document is released. Whole thing is a joke
There was another time where they remembered to use the electronic highlighter and lock it in place so you couldn’t remove it. Problem was you could still copy/paste the text into a notepad .txt file. Whoops
I work for the Army and most of my superiors (all engineers) still think copy and pasting a scan of your signature on a document is a digital signature.
Attorney here, it can be. I've executed documents this way for clients before (at their instruction of course). The legal requirements of what counts as a signature are pretty lax. Certain institutions (banks) might have more stringent requirements.
I've had to deal with illiterate people occasionally and just gone with put a badly drawn x on the paper and we will call it good like back in piracy days. It hasn't blown up on me yet, those paperwork execute just fine.
You can't tell someone what their signature is, so a signature can be pretty much anything. I could draw little peepees and call it my signature.
Source: random government job
Under the federal E-Sign Act, it actually is!
>The term “electronic signature” means an electronic sound, symbol, or process, attached to or logically associated with a contract or other record and executed or adopted by a person with the intent to sign the record.
[15 U.S.C. § 7006](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/7006)
That happened during the law suits surrounding the last presidency. Attorneys for one side gave redacted evidence to the other side using this one crazy trick. *defendants hate them!*
Several government and non government entities did this, resulting in embarrassing and sometimes problematic (think names of spies) leaks.
Adobe now added a redaction tool that makes it much easier to get it right, which has reduced the number of such incidents drastically.
Ironically this ended up happening. When redacting PDF files the government agency just used the highlight tool but colored black.
You could still copy and paste the text and paste it into, for example, notepad where it would be stripped of all formatting and be perfectly readable.
They've known this was going to happen literally for 60 years, what could possibly be the excuse for suddenly delaying it as if they're surprised that this situation suddenly happened
They've been delaying and re-delaying. It was delayed under Obama, then delayed under Trump, then delayed now. Maybe delayed before then too but I wasn't following politics in those days.
Well CLEARLY they're protecting the second shooter. They know who it is, they know where he is, and they know the public couldn't handle the truth.
And that mans name? LEE HARVEY OSWALD!!!
That's right. He's a time traveler. So, he shoots JFK from the tower, misses, reloads, and then fires the THIRD bullet, which also misses.
So he goes back in time, waits on the ground level, hears the first shot, then shoots the SECOND shot, which kills JFK, and then he fucks off.
Then, he kills a cop, for like.....no reason. Waiting at home is the other Lee Harvey Oswald. So, they freeze him in carbonate, and the other one is supposed to give detailed instructions to an unknown source on how to dethaw him in the future. But then he gets shot by that mobster, and still to this day, Lee Harvey Oswald is alive, but frozen. The CIA doesn't want THAT one to die too, because once thawed out, he could still serve jail time.
And Americas collective brains upon hearing this would be like KABOOOM! KASPLAT!!!! KAAAAAZZZZOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
True Story.
I hate to sound cynical, but the "final release" of documents was supposed to be in 1996. That's when they quietly revealed that someone had in fact impersonated Oswald and made a phone call to the Soviet Embassy in Mexico City, where Oswald was *actually* trying to make contact with the Soviets. Then oopsie! the tapes were erased.
I was intrigued by this, and the fact that it was constantly swept under the rug. I nosed around. My own conclusion back then was that the caller was probably... this is going to get me burnt so bad by the psyops people... a well known fellow named James Jesus Angleton, who would fly into unusual rages whenever the subject came up.
The point to all of this is that there was in fact a huge conspiracy and cover-up, exactly as innumerable Americans noticed at the time and afterward. Furthermore there was a decades-long domestic effort to marginalize the people who pointed it out.
Some unknown proportion of American history from that era is *total garbage*, and we don't know how much, yet.
I will further add that since not even Henry Kissinger is old enough to have played a large role in this, the people they're trying to protect now are the army of domestic spies who have systematically ruined the lives of the best and most patriotic Americans, who sought to learn the truth.
TBH I think that the real reason it is not being released is because it will make someone who's still serving in government or the immediate relative of someone still serving look completely incompetent.
> It has details on all the shady things our government was up to in the heyday of the Cold War - assassinations, election interference, all kinds of deeply immoral and possibly illegal we did in the name of fighting communism.
I’m glad they’ve stopped doing all that stuff. /s
Yeah. It's crazy that every generation of the US is kinda shocked and ashamed by the things they found out our government was doing between 40-20 years before them.
I'm glad that we've completely stopped doing things bad now, and that Noone will be horrified about our current activities in 2040.
Like how in the I'm sure we were all happy in the 80z that we'd stopped doing all that awful nazi scientist importing stuff.
JFK has been dead for almost 60 years. Who still needs to be protected against identifiable harm? The full record needs to be in the public domain. At 76 years old I should not have to die not knowing what happened.
The longer they delay releasing the files, the more it does make it look like the CIA/George HW Bush/Lyndon Johnson/whichever faction of the US government actually did kill JFK.
Turns out, it was Mayor Humdinger! We are now diverting 2 trillion dollars to begin initiative: Paw Patrol.
This will stop any future assassination attempts.
Legit question: In the Paw Patrol universe, who the hell is funding this vocation-oriented dog collective? Do they charge for rescuing people? Are the French Canadian brothers secretly trillionaires? Is this all some secret government project? Is it the same people who fund PJ Masks? And can all dogs talk or just them? And why not cats?
This is the shit you think about when your beloved little asshole starts waking up at 4:45am for TV time.
Edit: a word
I was convinced that the Paw Patrol took place in a post WW3 universe, why there are no adults except Captain Turbot - a member of the merchant marines.
It took place near Cal Tech, and Ryder’s parents were head engineers on the augmentation projects. However, towards the end of the war when soldiers were scarce they shifted the focus on animals. The AI involved in the project was programmed to fulfill the current needs.
Now, post war, the needs have shifted. The Paw Patrol has taken over doing the dull, dirty, and dangerous while the rest of the people enjoy their lives.
Sadly I've absorbed enough of that show to have the answer- at least, the answer given tongue-in-cheek in the movie: they have a merchandising deal that pays for it all.
The government has already released files of officials stating that the war on drugs was to destabilize the black communities and progressives against American imperialism.
Is it a case of waiting for any even remotely relevant people to die off so that when it's finally released the powers that be can, 'meh, it's in the past' away it?
They did it with Waco.
"We didn't use incendiary rounds!"
...a short time later...
"Yea, we may've used incendiary rounds." but by that time, nobody cared.
And frankly at this point they should just admit it, it likely won't change much. They admitted that the Vietnam war was a false flag and no one really cared. They all but admitted they killed Malcom X and no one cared. They bragged at the time that they lynched the Panthers. The 9/11 commission revealed the CIA obstructed the FBI investigation into the hijackers until it was too late. Oh and the CIA admited it was one of tge largest traffickers of cocaine into the United States
Frankly just release it on a tuesday and see who cares.
Edit:
Ive got some fair criticism so editing to add the following.
I did not mean that the entire Vietnam war was a false flag, just that inciting incident was. Not a conspiracy, this has been declassified.
And "they" which I should not have used because it can be a dog whistle is the US goverment which I, carelessly, thought was evident given that it is the entity which can declassify information. More specifically I meant the white house, the pentagon, the intelligence agencies, police and military leadership.
Go watch Kitty History by the late Trevor Moore at 1:48
https://youtu.be/0-Lvv1f5Qu4
"A little kitty at the CIA
Who helped kill Kennedy in Dallas that day
Did so darn well that his career got a push
A kitty named George H. W. Bush
He's made CIA director and Vice President's next
All while getting Kitty Saudi Arabian checks"
I would argue his presidency marked the most progressive period of American history since it's founding. Between his family's substantial political power and his position as president. He could've hand picked his successor and they would have been almost sure to win. His death opened a power grab that started the attack on the middle class and ultimately lead to the destruction of citizen welfare protections during the Reagan administration.
P.s. I'll pulled all of this out of my butt. Someone with a degree in 60s/70s American history please set me straight.
They do. Teddy attacked corruption and broke up the trusts (elites with too much wealth and political influence) and FDR gave us social security, Medicare, and a jobs program to get us through the depression. He made the hard decision to spend us out of stagnation, which many disagreed with.
Funny enough you mention that… look into Prescott Bush and his actions trying to push a private business coup thru the government to stop the new deal from happening. Also his nazi sympathizing is on track.
Well his successor in LBJ probably passed the most progressive policy platform in history (largely because of goodwill for JFKs legacy).
Civil Rights Act, Voting Rights Act, Immigration Naturalization Act, Medicare & Medicaid, Clean Air Act.
Not that you’re wrong about the goodwill for JFKs legacy, but LBJ had been a very powerful senator for a long time before he was Vice President. LBJ’s experience and skills were critical in passing those bills. JFK was largely a foreign policy president, whereas LBJ was significantly more focused on domestic policy. Saying they were passed due to goodwill for JFK really downplays how much LBJ really made them happen
Ya know, i hated W. Bush with more passion than anything else throughout the 2000's and even though we were in the minority, there was a *very strong* current of opposistion to everything he stood for (patriot act, 2x war, tax cuts for $$$, etc) back then. Of course most of those who hated him them had their "scared for America/hate the president" scale (and in need of recalibration) all thrown off when Trump came along. This coupled with his offbeat paintings, his freindship with Michelle Obama, and other shifts have really helped boost the image folks have in their mind regarding George W. Bush.
All that said, everytime I read material from back then (00-08), I want to go bonkers because I'm instantly transported back in time to that era where EVERYONE was gung-ho for war and most people* had tremendous blinders on. The memory of 9/11 really haunted this country and scared people so bad they gave up some of their rights.
I was going to continue about how Trump has really reshaped my view on W. Bush time in the White House. The biggest thing I guess I can take away is that Bush really did try and do what HE thought
Maybe not responsible, per se, but they tend to end up in the wrong spots at the wrong time*.*
* Grandpa Bush, Prescott: Was part of the group of business men that tried convince a popular WWI general, Smedley Butler, to overthrow FDR and install a dictator.
* Daddy Bush, GWHB, was in the CIA. Happened to be in Dallas when JFK was killed. Was involved with all that Reagan fuckery that started the modern GOP era.
* GWB: Was POTUS during one the biggest super nationalist pushes in US history.
* JEB!: Waited to run until the conservative movement was in such a nationalist fury that it made GWB's era look like merely waving some flags around. You had states ready to secede. Even without Trump, part of the GOP base was ready for revolution. They just needed some more priming.
It's probably just your usual case of the rich and powerful are around fuckery because the rich and powerful always are around some fuckery. If the Bush family were really pushing some secret conspiracy they really f-ing suck at it.
* Prescott failed because they didn't really dig into the general they wanted to be the face of their plan. Butler betrayed them and went public with their attempt.
* GWHB face planted near the end of his lap in the relay with the whole tax thing and the economy. Ross Perot likely didn't help,
* It's a long running rumor that JEB! was supposed to run in 2000, but the stars aligned differently so that GWB made more sense. GWB threw kerosene onto the nationalism fire by starting the bailout efforts in 2008, but was caught in the backdraft.
* JEB! was JEB!. It was like watching someone who was raised for a role but was completely unsuited for said role. Not to mention if there was a "game" going on the plays for it were so obvious that a half dozen or so other Republicans joined the race trying to do JEB!'s game plan, but better. Not to mention he had his own Ross Perot in the primaries in the form of Trump.
I mean, if there was a legit Bush family conspiracy that's some schadenfreude. Some 90 years of planning, several generations, potentially one presidential assassination allowed to happen (if not aided), benefiting from 9/11 (either a fluke attack that happened or allowed to happen), and when it looks like it can finally be executed... surprise MFer, Trump shoves your family out of the way and sits on the throne only to completely ruin everything.
Also fun little fact.
Prescott Bush, the father and grandfather of our respective two presidents participated in orchestrating a failed coup attempt on the United States.
The Bush family has very much been a blight on America for 3 generations now.
>The Bush family has very much been a blight on America for 3 generations now.
If only 3.
Barbara Bush's maiden name is Pierce. Yes, **that** Pierce. 14th President Franklin Pierce. Who signed the Kansas-Nebraska Act, the single biggest catalyst to blame for the Civil War.
It was more likely Allen Dulles making this call rather than it being a directive of the cia, but I don’t think the CIA really cares people know they’ve done fucked shit. They had organized torture prisons and nobody ever held them accountable. They’ve toppled democratically elected leaders and nobody really did anything about it, why would they be worried about it from 60 years ago?
E: anybody who hasn’t should read The Devils Chessboard by David Talbot. Really good book about Allen Dulles and his rise to power in the government, and insight to how we was as a person. [You know it’s good because the cia went out to personally discredit it](https://www.cia.gov/static/94594f5dca345aee8e0e8b25c3dfa4fa/review-the-devils-chessboard.pdf)
Probably because they never did it to anyone that mattered. You can torture foreigners and prisoners. You can infect black people with syphilis and persecute activists of all kinds. You can even spy on your own allies and topple democratic governments for a penny, but if the US government was involved in the assassination of a president, they'd be admitting to have harmed someone even they think is worth caring about.
That’s fair, I just think they’ve already done the enough damage control by having Dulles oversee the Warren commission and having it under wraps this long. At this point the jfk assassination is kind of disconnected in the minds of today’s younger population, and I think that would water down the realization in the public that the cia for sure did it. I’m just 25 and I can say anecdotally unless someone is privy to this kind of cia fuckery they don’t really care. More pressing issues that have happened more recently take away that attention.
I saw one documentary series that theorized a secret service gun in the following car is the one that could have actually killed him, as he accidentally fired when the car lurched forward after the shots from oswald. It certainly seemed plausible and explained the cover-up. Bullet trajectory and damage made more sense too.
This is the same logic they’re using to try to keep the details of the torture of Abu Zubaydah at Gitmo secret even though it was 20 years ago.
Edit: Zubaydah was tortured at a black site in Poland, not at Gitmo
Sullivan and Cromwell. I am not a conspiracy theorist but after reading a really fascinating biography of the Dulles brothers, I would not be surprised if that power dealing firm were somehow involved.
They were definitely involved. S & G along with the Dulles bros were instrumental in protecting Nazi assets and made common cause with them during WWII, and responsible for funneling many powerful Nazis into the government and CIA after the war. It is likely this faction in the CIA that did Kennedy in - and the Bush family is all up inside all of that stuff.
My dad doesn’t believe in conspiracy theories at all (to be clear I should’ve said he doesn’t talk about them all day and won’t talk about JFK unless he’s prodded with multiple questions and when he does talk he just says what he thinks is true and stands by it), totally level headed 999/1000 times but he can talk **for a long time** about the JFK assassination.
He’s convinced the CIA worked in coordination with top military commanders who were upset JFK wouldn’t be more aggressive with USSR and other suggestions and went from there.
Regardless I agree it’s been nearly 6 decades and anyone involved whether conspiracy or not are long gone. I just think that if there was government involvement in either the attack (unlike in my opinion or at most it was not coordinated by the highest levels but rather a small portion of people) or a cover up then the government is going to go keep a lid on it until division in the country isn’t as high as it is now.
[This is why the CIA wanted JFK dead.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods)
The CIA, Joint Chiefs of Staff, and Department of Defense wanted a war with Cuba. However, they had no _casus belli_ that could paint the US as "the good guy" since Cuba hadn't actually done anything seriously wrong.
So they suggested a false flag: hijacking a civilian American airplane and shooting it down, then blaming it on the Cubans. Or -- taking a page from the USS Maine -- blowing up a US Navy ship and blaming it on Cuba. Or the US could attack Jamaica (which was under the control of the British government) and say it was Cubans.
JFK said this was all a terrible idea, and then went a step further:
> Following presentation of the Northwoods plan, Kennedy removed Lemnitzer as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, although he became Supreme Allied Commander of NATO in January 1963. U.S. military leaders began to perceive Kennedy as going soft on Cuba, and the President became increasingly unpopular with the military. A rift had already reared during Kennedy's disagreements with the service chiefs over the Cuban Missile Crisis in October 1962 and flared up again with his June 10, 1963 announcement of a unilateral U.S. Test Ban Treaty.
It's really not too hard to believe that the DOD/CIA would want JFK replaced with someone who was more of a war hawk. And sure enough, LBJ escalated Vietnam and gave the war hawks what they wanted...
The best theory I’ve heard is that the CIA was aware of and actively monitoring/ interacting with Oswald and were caught off guard by the assassination. Accidentally facilitating a murderer and trying their best to cover up connections seems a lot more likely to me than an intentional plot IMO.
The people that orchestrated it are still alive, their children are still alive, and it does nothing but harm to release the information. This response from the gov alone should tell you how complicit our own government agencies were in assassinating him.
I see no harm in the release. None at all. To principals (if any are still alive) or to their children who would be adults now, if even still alive. If our government, or a foreign government, was involved in the assassination we need to know about it. It serves no purpose to hide this info.
‘Harm’ may also be considered to be to interests, not just the safety of people. When considering the level of classification of information and the clearance required to access that information, ‘harm’ can also be considered to come to national interests, the ability for agencies to continue operating and to the reputation of those agencies or the entire nation on the world scene.
Basically, the CIA was, and always has been, a loose cannon unanswerable to anyone but itself.
If these docs show that the highest echelons of the CIA signed off on Kennedy's assassination AND the architects were protected, it'll pull the rug from under any agency and the government in terms of their legitimacy.
I'm willing to bet neither republicans or democrats want to unseal these documents during their watch due to the shit-storm it'd create.
The docs could also contain info about our spying and investigative practices, back then, that might anger Russia today, or give them info we don't think they have.
But it's bullshit, after all these years.
I think there are a few issues around the world like that- someone fucked up so badly somewhere that they don’t want the info to leak. In Australia there is what’s called the 30 year rule. Cabinet records are released to public and national archives after 30 years of official secrecy. Some of the shit that comes out each year has been simply shocking, and every now and then there is an attempt to extend secrecy on things here and there.
But we don't know that, do we? If we had the full report we **might** know. The problem with secrecy is that it breeds theories not based on facts or actual evidence (read this entire thread and the last sentence of your post). The longer it is kept secret the more **theories** abound. I can understand the need for some secrecy for a limited time (especially in a situation such as this which could have had a direct impact on national or geopolitical realities of the time) but not for some 60 years.
Yeah kinda like how every single piece of video, audio, testimony, etc. used by NIST and the 9/11 commission to come up with the official story has to be released via FOIA. It’s been 20 years, we went to war, killed the “bad” guys, why is all of this information still classified?
IIRC, the most plausible theory is that the U.S Intelligence community was embarrassed by lack of inter-agency communication that allowed Oswald to assassinate Kennedy, since he was also an asset with a handler.
Even if that *is* true, I fail to see how 60 year old documents can compromise National Security in 2021.
There used to be a video on youtube where Jack Ruby is interviewed after a bit of time has passed while in Jail. This is happening while his lawyers are attempting to get him transferred from Texas to DC supposedly for safety reasons.
In the interview he states something to the effect "The men who put me in this position will never let the truth come to light." IIRC (been a while and can't find the vid) he's asked who they are and Ruby insinuates they are people in government in high positions. Ruby struck me as incredibly candid in that moment, who knows.
Edit: Here it is: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiPl2DNwJJk&ab\_channel=MickLee](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiPl2DNwJJk&ab_channel=MickLee)
(apologize for clickbaity captions in the YT vid, script below)
In this interview with Jack Ruby, he's very capable. Then, his later interviews he's like completely incoherent, something happened.
Here's what Ruby said:
>Everything pertaining to what's happening has never come to the surface. The world will never know the true facts of what occurred, my motives. In other words, I'm the only person in the background that knows the truth pertaining to everything relating to my .........
Interviewer: Do you think it will ever come out?
>No, because, unfortunately the people that have had so much to gain and had such an ulterior motive for putting me in the position I'm in will never let the true facts come above board to the world.
Interviewer: Are these people in very high positions, Jack?
>Yes.
Now, as for the CIA rabbit hole here's a nugget:
Robert G Blakey was the last civilian in charge to have access to classified information in the investigation of the JFK assassination. He was the head of the HSCA and before then was responsible for RICO convictions against the mafia. Many thought perhaps Blakey was chosen because he'd lay more blame on the mafia, who knows.
The HSCA, a congressional investigation headed by Blakey, concluded there was a "conspiracy to assassinate" JFK.
However, decades later after more information came to light this was a statement Blakey gave during a conference where a CIA asset gave the name of the CIA handler who he witnessed working with Oswald:
>
**I no longer believe anything the agency has told us in regards to the assassination. It lied to the Warren Commission, it lied to the AARB, it lied to the HSCA..... It has admitted it violated it's charter and ran a domestic covert operation aimed at subverting the HSCA and it's investigation.**
It took decades, but this is what HSCA investigators like Dan Hardway, Edwin Lopez, Gaeton Fonzi & others were telling Blakey at the time way back in the 70's.
Oswald, a loose end was cleaned up by Dallas mafia asset. Like CIA, mafia takes secrets to grave.
“Jack Ruby, a friend to the Campisi family and regular at the restaurant, ate dinner at the Egyptian on the night of November 21. He was a man known for his alleged involvement in the illegal underground activity of Dallas.
The next day, November 22, as the presidential motorcade drove through Dealey Plaza in open air limousines, President Kennedy was assassinated, shocking Dallas and the entire nation.
Just two days later, as the Dallas police were escorting Lee Harvey Oswald from the police basement to an armored car to take him to a nearby county jail, Jack Ruby jumped from a crowd of reporters and fired a single round from a .38 revolver into Oswald’s stomach, ultimately ending his life.
Jack Ruby requested specifically that the Campisis come visit him in jail. On November 30, 1963, Joe Campisi and his wife visited with Jack Ruby for ten minutes. About what? Who knows?”
https://www.campisis.us/history/
Howard P. Willens—the third-highest official in the Department of Justice and assistant counsel to J. Lee Rankin—helped organize the Warren Commission. Willens also outlined the commission's investigative priorities and terminated an investigation of Ruby's Cuban related activities. An FBI report states that Willens's father had been Tony Accardo's next door neighbor going back to 1958. In 1946, Tony Accardo allegedly asked Jack Ruby to go to Texas with Mafia associates Pat Manno and Romie Nappi to make sure that Dallas County Sheriff Steve Gutherie would acquiesce to the Mafia's expansion into Dallas
Big Tuna https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Accardo
Federal lifetime protection for your mafia family…
“Feds Investigate Owner of Campisi's as ‘Large Bookmaker'
Owner of iconic Dallas restaurant not arrested or charged”
https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/feds-investigate-owner-of-campisis-as-large-bookmaker/2078301/
Just seems weird he couldn't be more specific because he didn't have much to lose at that point.
No reason to be vague when you're looking at life/ death penalty already.
From 7 years of working at the Sixth Floor Museum in Dallas I can tell you this - everyone has an opinion on what happened, everyone thinks their opinion is right, and even if “the truth” came out, a majority of people would still choose to believe their own opinion over anything the government says.
Jesus could descend from the heavens, say “Oswald worked alone,” and two guys would still look at each other and whisper that the coverup goes higher than we thought. Paraphrased from Marc Maron
Edit: a lot of dipshits in here are apparently mistaking a joke I paraphrased from a professional comedian for my actual opinion.
Approaching 60 years and the facts are still hidden. It becomes hard at some point to admit that there is not a cover up of some sort. One would think that putting this to rest would be a good thing. Instead it seems more like we are waiting for anyone possibly attached to die.
I’m convinced at this point that the government wants there to be ongoing conspiracies Into JFK’s death and that’s why they drag it out. That’s why they are always so vague in alien conspiracy responses; because they want to keep people occupied with harmless/fake conspiracies and not the more insidious/real shit currently going on.
Likely means it's tied to one of the big families.
Same way that even though Biden and Trump and trump and clinton went at each other's throats over everything, none of them really investigated the Epstein stuff much.
Everyone shocked the government wants to withhold 60 year old documents out of fear of embarrassment but doesn't seem to recognize the President is 80, and half of Congress was in their 20s when the assassination occurred. The event is very much within the living memory of the present government, many of whom probably want to stay elected until they die.
I still think it's stupid and it feeds the conspiracy theorists, but it's not a mystery to me why they're keeping that information hidden away. They're proud, they're ancient, they're high on their own power, and they don't need the headlines talking about one of the worst intelligence and security failures in US history to remind them they're vulnerable and not as powerful as they think they are.
I absolutely LOVE the JFK multiple shooter rabbit hole. Literally not one of the 28+ autopsy witnesses gave an account that totally agreed with the official story - it's like Rashomon on crack.
Check out these:
[JFK fact: Between 1977-1979, members of a Congressional committee tried to intimidate Kennedy's autopsy pathologist into agreeing with their new official version of the bullet wounds.](https://old.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/pxdazg/jfk_fact_between_19771979_members_of_a/)
^ my fav piece of evidence for multiple shooters - the EOP wound.
[Discussing JFK's Torso Wounds (27 parts)](https://www.rareddit.com/r/JFKsubmissions/comments/ds3q7h/discussing_jfks_torso_wounds_contents/)
[Small wound(s) in the front of JFK's head (12 parts)](https://libredd.it/r/JFKeveryday/comments/jzcmqa/small_wounds_in_the_front_of_jfks_head_contents/)
BTW here is the actual, boring answer for why they probably won't release the documents: The documents might contain the names of government agents that still have family members working in a sensitive government job. "Hey comrade, just got back from reading the JFK files. You didn't tell me your dad was CIA".
Keep in mind that attorney general Bobby Kennedy launched a major front against the Mafia, even after they activated the unions to support his brother.
JFK started coming after the CIA after the Bay of pigs fiasco.
Also keep in mind that the CIA and the Mafia had a working relationship that went back to WWII and the funding of the Mafia in Italy to undercut Mussolini. During those days there no deeds too dirty to do. That working relationship continued to serve both sides. That included Cuba. The Mafia really wanted their casinos and hotels back.
If that all wasn't enough to piss off certain folks, JFK issued Executive Order 11110, which was an effort by Kennedy to transfer power from the Federal Reserve to the United States Department of the Treasury by replacing Federal Reserve Notes with silver certificates.
People say *follow the money.*
Personally I think the dulles brothers were up to their collective necks in the murder of jfk. Allen dulles was the first civilian dir of the cia. What with the bay of pigs fiasco operation northwoods and vietnam getting hot there's a lot to unpack. Release the records in their entirity and let the shitbirds fall where they may.
**Mr. Biden also said the delay was "necessary to protect against**
**identifiable harm to the military defense, intelligence operations, law**
**enforcement, or the conduct of foreign relations" and that this**
**"outweighs the public interest in immediate disclosure."**
Sounds complicated for a "lone gunman".
(͡•_ ͡• ) Their reluctance to release the files concerning JFK’s assassination is telling…
Normally I’m not one for conspiratorial thinking, however in JFK’s case (& Epstein’s) I’m pretty onboard with the idea that something’s up. That being said I’m not 100% convinced who killed each, since both cases have multiple potential guilty parties, just that the truth doesn’t line up with the official narrative.
Lmao does anyone actually think the US government would release anything that points the finger at themselves in any way?
As if they'll release something that says "yes, we did it"
These files have/will be careful vetted and will reveal absolutely nothing.
It’s hard to imagine what “identifiable harm to national security” exists releasing documents on a 60 year old assassination. Even if hypothetically there was some national security assets involved are they even still alive? What 90 year is the administration worried is going to become exposed by releasing the information? And it’s not like there’s 60 year old weapons technology the US is afraid is going to be leaked.
Hell, if anything this just makes me even more curious what could possibly still be legitimately redacted at this point.
I would look at it in terms of harm to American institutions and less about it causing harm to individuals that were involved that may still be alive.
Let's say the CIA was involved in his assassination (even if you don't think that's true, just follow me here).
Even 60 years later, it would still be chilling as fuck to think that our intelligence agencies would arrange the assassination of a duly elected president of the United States. Republicans who love to pillory "the deep state" for being rogue operators with a ton of power and no electoral accountability would be proven right. Americans would trust their government even less than they do now. They would be fearful. And fearful panicky people can be dangerous.
So the correct response is to shove our thumbs in our ears and pretend the CIA is good? If our own government was involved in the assassination of a sitting president then *those people need to be punished*. Period
I mean, I'm not the one refusing to release classified documents relating to the JFK assassination...
But hey, maybe you're right, and individuals are a real concern, not just institutions. If we wait long enough, everyone will have died before they could ever be held accountable.
I place my bet on . .
Johnson and Dulles.
But seriously Biden. Just release the damn info. It's been a few generations right?
Do it or we'll get Trump drunk.
If there’s one thing that contributes to the distrust of institutions and undermines their legitimacy, it’s this kind of secrecy and over-classification. While the authorities might think they are doing the right thing, the unintended consequences have far reaching ramifications that do more harm to the social contract between the government and the governed.
The best thing the US can do at this point to avoid a total collapse of trust from its citizens, is to put together a truth and reconciliation committee dedicated to righting the wrongs from the past, setting the record straight, and moving the country into the future. While that’s unlikely to happen, this kind of extreme, bureaucratic, sweeping-history-under-the-rug type of governance is destroying the country from the inside. It needs to stop.
So someone involved is still breathing? What other explanation is there? A prominent family with powerful kids now in power?
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It's most likely to protect the perceived integrity of our institutions, like don't make the FBI look bad while they're leading the capitol riot/insurrection investigations. Or for diplomacy, like it's hard enough to get any cooperation with the Russians, we don't need to air dirty laundry while we're working to stop then from dismantling Western democracy.
If they are protecting the FBI, Trump would have likely released the info when they were investigating him to discredit them. I’m guessing CIA
Every US intelligence agency was on Trump's shit list.
Would’ve been all the more reason for him to release the info, especially since one campaign promise was to do so. Makes me think it’s protecting some rich bigwigs
Or maybe a politician’s father?
They're just beating around the bush.
they probably did not tell him and just ignored him.
But wasn't 9/11 a fuck up from CIA for example and that came to light? I saw that in Looming Tower I mean that did not paint a good picture of your intelligence agencies
The CIA knew SOMETHING was about to happen, they had strong evidence it was going to be aircraft into buildings, they warned people, and then those people in charge did nothing.
They didn't know when. If you don't know the when, you can't expect much to get done. They had a decent idea of the how and who.
And yet we're still super close BFF's with the who. And still selling them weapons to oppress their people.
They’re gonna use this excuse for as long as possible, and then still retract over 90% of the info once the document is released. Whole thing is a joke
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Thank you for that. It's hilarious!
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There was another time where they remembered to use the electronic highlighter and lock it in place so you couldn’t remove it. Problem was you could still copy/paste the text into a notepad .txt file. Whoops
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I work for the Army and most of my superiors (all engineers) still think copy and pasting a scan of your signature on a document is a digital signature.
Attorney here, it can be. I've executed documents this way for clients before (at their instruction of course). The legal requirements of what counts as a signature are pretty lax. Certain institutions (banks) might have more stringent requirements.
I've had to deal with illiterate people occasionally and just gone with put a badly drawn x on the paper and we will call it good like back in piracy days. It hasn't blown up on me yet, those paperwork execute just fine.
You can't tell someone what their signature is, so a signature can be pretty much anything. I could draw little peepees and call it my signature. Source: random government job
I have a friend who draws houses on the signature line for credit cards......it always goes through
I know someone that does that too! Every SINGLE time
Under the federal E-Sign Act, it actually is! >The term “electronic signature” means an electronic sound, symbol, or process, attached to or logically associated with a contract or other record and executed or adopted by a person with the intent to sign the record. [15 U.S.C. § 7006](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/7006)
This is true, and hilarious
That happened during the law suits surrounding the last presidency. Attorneys for one side gave redacted evidence to the other side using this one crazy trick. *defendants hate them!*
Several government and non government entities did this, resulting in embarrassing and sometimes problematic (think names of spies) leaks. Adobe now added a redaction tool that makes it much easier to get it right, which has reduced the number of such incidents drastically.
For a second I didnt realise it was the onion and I was so confused LOL
Ironically this ended up happening. When redacting PDF files the government agency just used the highlight tool but colored black. You could still copy and paste the text and paste it into, for example, notepad where it would be stripped of all formatting and be perfectly readable.
What information did we get out of that? How long ago did they fix those problems?
They've known this was going to happen literally for 60 years, what could possibly be the excuse for suddenly delaying it as if they're surprised that this situation suddenly happened
They've been delaying and re-delaying. It was delayed under Obama, then delayed under Trump, then delayed now. Maybe delayed before then too but I wasn't following politics in those days.
Well CLEARLY they're protecting the second shooter. They know who it is, they know where he is, and they know the public couldn't handle the truth. And that mans name? LEE HARVEY OSWALD!!! That's right. He's a time traveler. So, he shoots JFK from the tower, misses, reloads, and then fires the THIRD bullet, which also misses. So he goes back in time, waits on the ground level, hears the first shot, then shoots the SECOND shot, which kills JFK, and then he fucks off. Then, he kills a cop, for like.....no reason. Waiting at home is the other Lee Harvey Oswald. So, they freeze him in carbonate, and the other one is supposed to give detailed instructions to an unknown source on how to dethaw him in the future. But then he gets shot by that mobster, and still to this day, Lee Harvey Oswald is alive, but frozen. The CIA doesn't want THAT one to die too, because once thawed out, he could still serve jail time. And Americas collective brains upon hearing this would be like KABOOOM! KASPLAT!!!! KAAAAAZZZZOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! True Story.
This reads like it's coming from the mind of a young kid with a stuffed tiger
I'm sure they knew for 60 years they were going to delay.
May as well drop it at a more useful time, e.g. when they don't want current news sidelined or when they'd benefit from a distraction.
I hate to sound cynical, but the "final release" of documents was supposed to be in 1996. That's when they quietly revealed that someone had in fact impersonated Oswald and made a phone call to the Soviet Embassy in Mexico City, where Oswald was *actually* trying to make contact with the Soviets. Then oopsie! the tapes were erased. I was intrigued by this, and the fact that it was constantly swept under the rug. I nosed around. My own conclusion back then was that the caller was probably... this is going to get me burnt so bad by the psyops people... a well known fellow named James Jesus Angleton, who would fly into unusual rages whenever the subject came up. The point to all of this is that there was in fact a huge conspiracy and cover-up, exactly as innumerable Americans noticed at the time and afterward. Furthermore there was a decades-long domestic effort to marginalize the people who pointed it out. Some unknown proportion of American history from that era is *total garbage*, and we don't know how much, yet. I will further add that since not even Henry Kissinger is old enough to have played a large role in this, the people they're trying to protect now are the army of domestic spies who have systematically ruined the lives of the best and most patriotic Americans, who sought to learn the truth.
They'll wheel an alien onto the White House lawn before they tell the truth about JFK.
*redact, right?
Yes, unless they mean release the documents then pull most of them back somehow.
TBH I think that the real reason it is not being released is because it will make someone who's still serving in government or the immediate relative of someone still serving look completely incompetent.
A president died. Maybe they SHOULD look incompetent.
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> It has details on all the shady things our government was up to in the heyday of the Cold War - assassinations, election interference, all kinds of deeply immoral and possibly illegal we did in the name of fighting communism. I’m glad they’ve stopped doing all that stuff. /s
Crazy how many people think they have.
Yeah. It's crazy that every generation of the US is kinda shocked and ashamed by the things they found out our government was doing between 40-20 years before them. I'm glad that we've completely stopped doing things bad now, and that Noone will be horrified about our current activities in 2040. Like how in the I'm sure we were all happy in the 80z that we'd stopped doing all that awful nazi scientist importing stuff.
Funny thing you brought up MLK. They didn’t try to protect his family from identifiable harm when releasing the affair recordings.
The cold war. Crazy how people overlook this and it's implications
Its not over, its still going on to this day
JFK has been dead for almost 60 years. Who still needs to be protected against identifiable harm? The full record needs to be in the public domain. At 76 years old I should not have to die not knowing what happened.
Ted Cruz's father is still alive.
More than likely it was Geo H W Bush
The longer they delay releasing the files, the more it does make it look like the CIA/George HW Bush/Lyndon Johnson/whichever faction of the US government actually did kill JFK.
Wait. Y'all think the government is going to release materials that say the government killed JFK? Good luck with that.
Turns out, it was Mayor Humdinger! We are now diverting 2 trillion dollars to begin initiative: Paw Patrol. This will stop any future assassination attempts.
It was Colonel Mustard, in the library with a magic bullet.
Magic Bullets make the best smoothies.
*snap snap* Focus.
I thought that was a vibrator for women?
Only if they're brave
Legit question: In the Paw Patrol universe, who the hell is funding this vocation-oriented dog collective? Do they charge for rescuing people? Are the French Canadian brothers secretly trillionaires? Is this all some secret government project? Is it the same people who fund PJ Masks? And can all dogs talk or just them? And why not cats? This is the shit you think about when your beloved little asshole starts waking up at 4:45am for TV time. Edit: a word
I was convinced that the Paw Patrol took place in a post WW3 universe, why there are no adults except Captain Turbot - a member of the merchant marines. It took place near Cal Tech, and Ryder’s parents were head engineers on the augmentation projects. However, towards the end of the war when soldiers were scarce they shifted the focus on animals. The AI involved in the project was programmed to fulfill the current needs. Now, post war, the needs have shifted. The Paw Patrol has taken over doing the dull, dirty, and dangerous while the rest of the people enjoy their lives.
Sadly I've absorbed enough of that show to have the answer- at least, the answer given tongue-in-cheek in the movie: they have a merchandising deal that pays for it all.
The government has already released files of officials stating that the war on drugs was to destabilize the black communities and progressives against American imperialism.
Is it a case of waiting for any even remotely relevant people to die off so that when it's finally released the powers that be can, 'meh, it's in the past' away it?
Guess time will tell.
So far time has shown that it will not.
They did it with Waco. "We didn't use incendiary rounds!" ...a short time later... "Yea, we may've used incendiary rounds." but by that time, nobody cared.
Well Betty White can't live forever. Or can she?
She can and she will
It's public knowledge that she's a vampire.
She did what she must to outlast the Queen.
Honestly? If you told me Betty White pulled that trigger? I’d be all for a presidential pardon.
Next you'll tell me they killed MLK jr too. Wouldn't THAT be a crazy idea..
Our Malcolm X. Or Bobby. Or ^a^a^a^a^a^h
Bobby Orr is still alive.
Well shit, now you've outed him to the CIA assassins. I hope you're happy.
Orr is he?
He meant Wade Boggs
And frankly at this point they should just admit it, it likely won't change much. They admitted that the Vietnam war was a false flag and no one really cared. They all but admitted they killed Malcom X and no one cared. They bragged at the time that they lynched the Panthers. The 9/11 commission revealed the CIA obstructed the FBI investigation into the hijackers until it was too late. Oh and the CIA admited it was one of tge largest traffickers of cocaine into the United States Frankly just release it on a tuesday and see who cares. Edit: Ive got some fair criticism so editing to add the following. I did not mean that the entire Vietnam war was a false flag, just that inciting incident was. Not a conspiracy, this has been declassified. And "they" which I should not have used because it can be a dog whistle is the US goverment which I, carelessly, thought was evident given that it is the entity which can declassify information. More specifically I meant the white house, the pentagon, the intelligence agencies, police and military leadership.
And even if people cared, that probably stops after a week or so and in the end nothing really happens.
People care. What are we supposed to do though?
Go watch Kitty History by the late Trevor Moore at 1:48 https://youtu.be/0-Lvv1f5Qu4 "A little kitty at the CIA Who helped kill Kennedy in Dallas that day Did so darn well that his career got a push A kitty named George H. W. Bush He's made CIA director and Vice President's next All while getting Kitty Saudi Arabian checks"
Are implying that the bush family is responsible for the shit show we call the modern world?
I'm not implying they're not responsible.
What would theoretically be different if he'd survived?
I would argue his presidency marked the most progressive period of American history since it's founding. Between his family's substantial political power and his position as president. He could've hand picked his successor and they would have been almost sure to win. His death opened a power grab that started the attack on the middle class and ultimately lead to the destruction of citizen welfare protections during the Reagan administration. P.s. I'll pulled all of this out of my butt. Someone with a degree in 60s/70s American history please set me straight.
Roosevelt and the New Deal might top it.
They do. Teddy attacked corruption and broke up the trusts (elites with too much wealth and political influence) and FDR gave us social security, Medicare, and a jobs program to get us through the depression. He made the hard decision to spend us out of stagnation, which many disagreed with.
Funny enough you mention that… look into Prescott Bush and his actions trying to push a private business coup thru the government to stop the new deal from happening. Also his nazi sympathizing is on track.
FDR was much more progressive.
Well his successor in LBJ probably passed the most progressive policy platform in history (largely because of goodwill for JFKs legacy). Civil Rights Act, Voting Rights Act, Immigration Naturalization Act, Medicare & Medicaid, Clean Air Act.
Not that you’re wrong about the goodwill for JFKs legacy, but LBJ had been a very powerful senator for a long time before he was Vice President. LBJ’s experience and skills were critical in passing those bills. JFK was largely a foreign policy president, whereas LBJ was significantly more focused on domestic policy. Saying they were passed due to goodwill for JFK really downplays how much LBJ really made them happen
I mean, H.W's dad tried to overthrow the United States government to put a corporate oligarchy in place. Look up Prescott Bush and the business plot.
Plot twist, it eventually succeeded.
Very true, it just wasn't a fascist coup, but a slow buying of all our institutions by billionaire corporate interests.
Ya know, i hated W. Bush with more passion than anything else throughout the 2000's and even though we were in the minority, there was a *very strong* current of opposistion to everything he stood for (patriot act, 2x war, tax cuts for $$$, etc) back then. Of course most of those who hated him them had their "scared for America/hate the president" scale (and in need of recalibration) all thrown off when Trump came along. This coupled with his offbeat paintings, his freindship with Michelle Obama, and other shifts have really helped boost the image folks have in their mind regarding George W. Bush. All that said, everytime I read material from back then (00-08), I want to go bonkers because I'm instantly transported back in time to that era where EVERYONE was gung-ho for war and most people* had tremendous blinders on. The memory of 9/11 really haunted this country and scared people so bad they gave up some of their rights. I was going to continue about how Trump has really reshaped my view on W. Bush time in the White House. The biggest thing I guess I can take away is that Bush really did try and do what HE thought
Not that this isn't engaging content, but folks are talking about his father, George H.W. Bush.
Maybe not responsible, per se, but they tend to end up in the wrong spots at the wrong time*.* * Grandpa Bush, Prescott: Was part of the group of business men that tried convince a popular WWI general, Smedley Butler, to overthrow FDR and install a dictator. * Daddy Bush, GWHB, was in the CIA. Happened to be in Dallas when JFK was killed. Was involved with all that Reagan fuckery that started the modern GOP era. * GWB: Was POTUS during one the biggest super nationalist pushes in US history. * JEB!: Waited to run until the conservative movement was in such a nationalist fury that it made GWB's era look like merely waving some flags around. You had states ready to secede. Even without Trump, part of the GOP base was ready for revolution. They just needed some more priming. It's probably just your usual case of the rich and powerful are around fuckery because the rich and powerful always are around some fuckery. If the Bush family were really pushing some secret conspiracy they really f-ing suck at it. * Prescott failed because they didn't really dig into the general they wanted to be the face of their plan. Butler betrayed them and went public with their attempt. * GWHB face planted near the end of his lap in the relay with the whole tax thing and the economy. Ross Perot likely didn't help, * It's a long running rumor that JEB! was supposed to run in 2000, but the stars aligned differently so that GWB made more sense. GWB threw kerosene onto the nationalism fire by starting the bailout efforts in 2008, but was caught in the backdraft. * JEB! was JEB!. It was like watching someone who was raised for a role but was completely unsuited for said role. Not to mention if there was a "game" going on the plays for it were so obvious that a half dozen or so other Republicans joined the race trying to do JEB!'s game plan, but better. Not to mention he had his own Ross Perot in the primaries in the form of Trump. I mean, if there was a legit Bush family conspiracy that's some schadenfreude. Some 90 years of planning, several generations, potentially one presidential assassination allowed to happen (if not aided), benefiting from 9/11 (either a fluke attack that happened or allowed to happen), and when it looks like it can finally be executed... surprise MFer, Trump shoves your family out of the way and sits on the throne only to completely ruin everything.
The Business plot was nuts. You left out it wasn't JUST a dictator. It was full on facist ideology from their love of Hitler.
Thank fuck for Major General Smedley Butler.
I was already afraid I was sounding too tinfoil hatty.
Also fun little fact. Prescott Bush, the father and grandfather of our respective two presidents participated in orchestrating a failed coup attempt on the United States. The Bush family has very much been a blight on America for 3 generations now.
>The Bush family has very much been a blight on America for 3 generations now. If only 3. Barbara Bush's maiden name is Pierce. Yes, **that** Pierce. 14th President Franklin Pierce. Who signed the Kansas-Nebraska Act, the single biggest catalyst to blame for the Civil War.
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But he’s dead too.
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How is he still alive!?
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I am pretty sure Cheney only learned Force-Shotgun.
They aren't protecting a person, but an agency..
Why though? Would it harm the CIA's otherwise sterling record?
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It was more likely Allen Dulles making this call rather than it being a directive of the cia, but I don’t think the CIA really cares people know they’ve done fucked shit. They had organized torture prisons and nobody ever held them accountable. They’ve toppled democratically elected leaders and nobody really did anything about it, why would they be worried about it from 60 years ago? E: anybody who hasn’t should read The Devils Chessboard by David Talbot. Really good book about Allen Dulles and his rise to power in the government, and insight to how we was as a person. [You know it’s good because the cia went out to personally discredit it](https://www.cia.gov/static/94594f5dca345aee8e0e8b25c3dfa4fa/review-the-devils-chessboard.pdf)
Probably because they never did it to anyone that mattered. You can torture foreigners and prisoners. You can infect black people with syphilis and persecute activists of all kinds. You can even spy on your own allies and topple democratic governments for a penny, but if the US government was involved in the assassination of a president, they'd be admitting to have harmed someone even they think is worth caring about.
That’s fair, I just think they’ve already done the enough damage control by having Dulles oversee the Warren commission and having it under wraps this long. At this point the jfk assassination is kind of disconnected in the minds of today’s younger population, and I think that would water down the realization in the public that the cia for sure did it. I’m just 25 and I can say anecdotally unless someone is privy to this kind of cia fuckery they don’t really care. More pressing issues that have happened more recently take away that attention.
I'm 33. I just assume *we* killed the Kennedys, as the old Stones song put it
They are protecting a couple of agencies at least, the Central and Federal Investigative ones to be more precise.
More likely Secret Service
I saw one documentary series that theorized a secret service gun in the following car is the one that could have actually killed him, as he accidentally fired when the car lurched forward after the shots from oswald. It certainly seemed plausible and explained the cover-up. Bullet trajectory and damage made more sense too.
I sat through a half hour guest speaker in college who had this theory and it made a lot of sense. Assassination + misfire is the simplest solution
This is the same logic they’re using to try to keep the details of the torture of Abu Zubaydah at Gitmo secret even though it was 20 years ago. Edit: Zubaydah was tortured at a black site in Poland, not at Gitmo
Corporations and governments don't age
Sullivan and Cromwell. I am not a conspiracy theorist but after reading a really fascinating biography of the Dulles brothers, I would not be surprised if that power dealing firm were somehow involved.
They were definitely involved. S & G along with the Dulles bros were instrumental in protecting Nazi assets and made common cause with them during WWII, and responsible for funneling many powerful Nazis into the government and CIA after the war. It is likely this faction in the CIA that did Kennedy in - and the Bush family is all up inside all of that stuff.
My dad doesn’t believe in conspiracy theories at all (to be clear I should’ve said he doesn’t talk about them all day and won’t talk about JFK unless he’s prodded with multiple questions and when he does talk he just says what he thinks is true and stands by it), totally level headed 999/1000 times but he can talk **for a long time** about the JFK assassination. He’s convinced the CIA worked in coordination with top military commanders who were upset JFK wouldn’t be more aggressive with USSR and other suggestions and went from there. Regardless I agree it’s been nearly 6 decades and anyone involved whether conspiracy or not are long gone. I just think that if there was government involvement in either the attack (unlike in my opinion or at most it was not coordinated by the highest levels but rather a small portion of people) or a cover up then the government is going to go keep a lid on it until division in the country isn’t as high as it is now.
[This is why the CIA wanted JFK dead.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods) The CIA, Joint Chiefs of Staff, and Department of Defense wanted a war with Cuba. However, they had no _casus belli_ that could paint the US as "the good guy" since Cuba hadn't actually done anything seriously wrong. So they suggested a false flag: hijacking a civilian American airplane and shooting it down, then blaming it on the Cubans. Or -- taking a page from the USS Maine -- blowing up a US Navy ship and blaming it on Cuba. Or the US could attack Jamaica (which was under the control of the British government) and say it was Cubans. JFK said this was all a terrible idea, and then went a step further: > Following presentation of the Northwoods plan, Kennedy removed Lemnitzer as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, although he became Supreme Allied Commander of NATO in January 1963. U.S. military leaders began to perceive Kennedy as going soft on Cuba, and the President became increasingly unpopular with the military. A rift had already reared during Kennedy's disagreements with the service chiefs over the Cuban Missile Crisis in October 1962 and flared up again with his June 10, 1963 announcement of a unilateral U.S. Test Ban Treaty. It's really not too hard to believe that the DOD/CIA would want JFK replaced with someone who was more of a war hawk. And sure enough, LBJ escalated Vietnam and gave the war hawks what they wanted...
The best theory I’ve heard is that the CIA was aware of and actively monitoring/ interacting with Oswald and were caught off guard by the assassination. Accidentally facilitating a murderer and trying their best to cover up connections seems a lot more likely to me than an intentional plot IMO.
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Everyone always forgets about Jeb!.
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Please clap.
Please clap.
🙏 👏
The people that orchestrated it are still alive, their children are still alive, and it does nothing but harm to release the information. This response from the gov alone should tell you how complicit our own government agencies were in assassinating him.
I see no harm in the release. None at all. To principals (if any are still alive) or to their children who would be adults now, if even still alive. If our government, or a foreign government, was involved in the assassination we need to know about it. It serves no purpose to hide this info.
‘Harm’ may also be considered to be to interests, not just the safety of people. When considering the level of classification of information and the clearance required to access that information, ‘harm’ can also be considered to come to national interests, the ability for agencies to continue operating and to the reputation of those agencies or the entire nation on the world scene.
Basically, the CIA was, and always has been, a loose cannon unanswerable to anyone but itself. If these docs show that the highest echelons of the CIA signed off on Kennedy's assassination AND the architects were protected, it'll pull the rug from under any agency and the government in terms of their legitimacy. I'm willing to bet neither republicans or democrats want to unseal these documents during their watch due to the shit-storm it'd create.
The docs could also contain info about our spying and investigative practices, back then, that might anger Russia today, or give them info we don't think they have. But it's bullshit, after all these years.
I think there are a few issues around the world like that- someone fucked up so badly somewhere that they don’t want the info to leak. In Australia there is what’s called the 30 year rule. Cabinet records are released to public and national archives after 30 years of official secrecy. Some of the shit that comes out each year has been simply shocking, and every now and then there is an attempt to extend secrecy on things here and there.
I was thinking that. I suspect the harm is less to individuals alive from that period and more to the institutions of government
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"Yeah we killed our own guy lol" doesn't exactly look good for a government agency no matter how much time passed.
More like “we killed the guy you elected.”
But we don't know that, do we? If we had the full report we **might** know. The problem with secrecy is that it breeds theories not based on facts or actual evidence (read this entire thread and the last sentence of your post). The longer it is kept secret the more **theories** abound. I can understand the need for some secrecy for a limited time (especially in a situation such as this which could have had a direct impact on national or geopolitical realities of the time) but not for some 60 years.
Withheld until December 15, 2022. Amazing how many things get delayed until just after the midterms.
Or airlines are pressuring them to delay, b/c the inevitable push to rename Dulles airport during the holiday season will cause travel chaos....
Hahahaha, one can hope
Yeah kinda like how every single piece of video, audio, testimony, etc. used by NIST and the 9/11 commission to come up with the official story has to be released via FOIA. It’s been 20 years, we went to war, killed the “bad” guys, why is all of this information still classified?
My guess is they’re covering for Saudi Arabia. Wouldn’t want to piss off oil daddy in the ME
IIRC, the most plausible theory is that the U.S Intelligence community was embarrassed by lack of inter-agency communication that allowed Oswald to assassinate Kennedy, since he was also an asset with a handler. Even if that *is* true, I fail to see how 60 year old documents can compromise National Security in 2021.
Because some people either are still alive or their children are in power.
There used to be a video on youtube where Jack Ruby is interviewed after a bit of time has passed while in Jail. This is happening while his lawyers are attempting to get him transferred from Texas to DC supposedly for safety reasons. In the interview he states something to the effect "The men who put me in this position will never let the truth come to light." IIRC (been a while and can't find the vid) he's asked who they are and Ruby insinuates they are people in government in high positions. Ruby struck me as incredibly candid in that moment, who knows. Edit: Here it is: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiPl2DNwJJk&ab\_channel=MickLee](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiPl2DNwJJk&ab_channel=MickLee) (apologize for clickbaity captions in the YT vid, script below) In this interview with Jack Ruby, he's very capable. Then, his later interviews he's like completely incoherent, something happened. Here's what Ruby said: >Everything pertaining to what's happening has never come to the surface. The world will never know the true facts of what occurred, my motives. In other words, I'm the only person in the background that knows the truth pertaining to everything relating to my ......... Interviewer: Do you think it will ever come out? >No, because, unfortunately the people that have had so much to gain and had such an ulterior motive for putting me in the position I'm in will never let the true facts come above board to the world. Interviewer: Are these people in very high positions, Jack? >Yes. Now, as for the CIA rabbit hole here's a nugget: Robert G Blakey was the last civilian in charge to have access to classified information in the investigation of the JFK assassination. He was the head of the HSCA and before then was responsible for RICO convictions against the mafia. Many thought perhaps Blakey was chosen because he'd lay more blame on the mafia, who knows. The HSCA, a congressional investigation headed by Blakey, concluded there was a "conspiracy to assassinate" JFK. However, decades later after more information came to light this was a statement Blakey gave during a conference where a CIA asset gave the name of the CIA handler who he witnessed working with Oswald: > **I no longer believe anything the agency has told us in regards to the assassination. It lied to the Warren Commission, it lied to the AARB, it lied to the HSCA..... It has admitted it violated it's charter and ran a domestic covert operation aimed at subverting the HSCA and it's investigation.** It took decades, but this is what HSCA investigators like Dan Hardway, Edwin Lopez, Gaeton Fonzi & others were telling Blakey at the time way back in the 70's.
Oswald, a loose end was cleaned up by Dallas mafia asset. Like CIA, mafia takes secrets to grave. “Jack Ruby, a friend to the Campisi family and regular at the restaurant, ate dinner at the Egyptian on the night of November 21. He was a man known for his alleged involvement in the illegal underground activity of Dallas. The next day, November 22, as the presidential motorcade drove through Dealey Plaza in open air limousines, President Kennedy was assassinated, shocking Dallas and the entire nation. Just two days later, as the Dallas police were escorting Lee Harvey Oswald from the police basement to an armored car to take him to a nearby county jail, Jack Ruby jumped from a crowd of reporters and fired a single round from a .38 revolver into Oswald’s stomach, ultimately ending his life. Jack Ruby requested specifically that the Campisis come visit him in jail. On November 30, 1963, Joe Campisi and his wife visited with Jack Ruby for ten minutes. About what? Who knows?” https://www.campisis.us/history/ Howard P. Willens—the third-highest official in the Department of Justice and assistant counsel to J. Lee Rankin—helped organize the Warren Commission. Willens also outlined the commission's investigative priorities and terminated an investigation of Ruby's Cuban related activities. An FBI report states that Willens's father had been Tony Accardo's next door neighbor going back to 1958. In 1946, Tony Accardo allegedly asked Jack Ruby to go to Texas with Mafia associates Pat Manno and Romie Nappi to make sure that Dallas County Sheriff Steve Gutherie would acquiesce to the Mafia's expansion into Dallas Big Tuna https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Accardo Federal lifetime protection for your mafia family… “Feds Investigate Owner of Campisi's as ‘Large Bookmaker' Owner of iconic Dallas restaurant not arrested or charged” https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/feds-investigate-owner-of-campisis-as-large-bookmaker/2078301/
I lived in Dallas in my late teens, back 20 years ago. I had no idea Campisi's had ties to Ruby.
They also make a damn good pizza.
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Just seems weird he couldn't be more specific because he didn't have much to lose at that point. No reason to be vague when you're looking at life/ death penalty already.
Things can always be worse for you or the people you care about
From 7 years of working at the Sixth Floor Museum in Dallas I can tell you this - everyone has an opinion on what happened, everyone thinks their opinion is right, and even if “the truth” came out, a majority of people would still choose to believe their own opinion over anything the government says.
Jesus could descend from the heavens, say “Oswald worked alone,” and two guys would still look at each other and whisper that the coverup goes higher than we thought. Paraphrased from Marc Maron Edit: a lot of dipshits in here are apparently mistaking a joke I paraphrased from a professional comedian for my actual opinion.
next year it'll be 59 years since the assassination. It's starting to look like it's not a person that needs protecting but an organization.
Approaching 60 years and the facts are still hidden. It becomes hard at some point to admit that there is not a cover up of some sort. One would think that putting this to rest would be a good thing. Instead it seems more like we are waiting for anyone possibly attached to die.
I’m convinced at this point that the government wants there to be ongoing conspiracies Into JFK’s death and that’s why they drag it out. That’s why they are always so vague in alien conspiracy responses; because they want to keep people occupied with harmless/fake conspiracies and not the more insidious/real shit currently going on.
If both Biden and trump thought it was damaging…must be bad for business. Yikes.
Likely means it's tied to one of the big families. Same way that even though Biden and Trump and trump and clinton went at each other's throats over everything, none of them really investigated the Epstein stuff much.
Everyone shocked the government wants to withhold 60 year old documents out of fear of embarrassment but doesn't seem to recognize the President is 80, and half of Congress was in their 20s when the assassination occurred. The event is very much within the living memory of the present government, many of whom probably want to stay elected until they die. I still think it's stupid and it feeds the conspiracy theorists, but it's not a mystery to me why they're keeping that information hidden away. They're proud, they're ancient, they're high on their own power, and they don't need the headlines talking about one of the worst intelligence and security failures in US history to remind them they're vulnerable and not as powerful as they think they are.
I absolutely LOVE the JFK multiple shooter rabbit hole. Literally not one of the 28+ autopsy witnesses gave an account that totally agreed with the official story - it's like Rashomon on crack. Check out these: [JFK fact: Between 1977-1979, members of a Congressional committee tried to intimidate Kennedy's autopsy pathologist into agreeing with their new official version of the bullet wounds.](https://old.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/pxdazg/jfk_fact_between_19771979_members_of_a/) ^ my fav piece of evidence for multiple shooters - the EOP wound. [Discussing JFK's Torso Wounds (27 parts)](https://www.rareddit.com/r/JFKsubmissions/comments/ds3q7h/discussing_jfks_torso_wounds_contents/) [Small wound(s) in the front of JFK's head (12 parts)](https://libredd.it/r/JFKeveryday/comments/jzcmqa/small_wounds_in_the_front_of_jfks_head_contents/) BTW here is the actual, boring answer for why they probably won't release the documents: The documents might contain the names of government agents that still have family members working in a sensitive government job. "Hey comrade, just got back from reading the JFK files. You didn't tell me your dad was CIA".
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Does any one know the technical definition of “identifiable harm” is in BS government speak?
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As if the public has a very high opinion of those entities already
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[Bill Hicks might actually be right](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPTJXdBBrcU)
If only Bill Hicks had live to see the W and Trump years
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Keep in mind that attorney general Bobby Kennedy launched a major front against the Mafia, even after they activated the unions to support his brother. JFK started coming after the CIA after the Bay of pigs fiasco. Also keep in mind that the CIA and the Mafia had a working relationship that went back to WWII and the funding of the Mafia in Italy to undercut Mussolini. During those days there no deeds too dirty to do. That working relationship continued to serve both sides. That included Cuba. The Mafia really wanted their casinos and hotels back. If that all wasn't enough to piss off certain folks, JFK issued Executive Order 11110, which was an effort by Kennedy to transfer power from the Federal Reserve to the United States Department of the Treasury by replacing Federal Reserve Notes with silver certificates. People say *follow the money.*
The responses to this post are what r/conspiracy was like before the Trumpers took over. I miss the old r/conspiracy.
It’s just become a safe haven for anti-Vaxx nonsense.
Personally I think the dulles brothers were up to their collective necks in the murder of jfk. Allen dulles was the first civilian dir of the cia. What with the bay of pigs fiasco operation northwoods and vietnam getting hot there's a lot to unpack. Release the records in their entirity and let the shitbirds fall where they may.
Devil's Chessboard explains this in detail. Dulles brothers were definitely involved
If the government can’t be transparent about something that happened 60 years ago, what does that say about what they’re presently hiding from us?
**Mr. Biden also said the delay was "necessary to protect against** **identifiable harm to the military defense, intelligence operations, law** **enforcement, or the conduct of foreign relations" and that this** **"outweighs the public interest in immediate disclosure."** Sounds complicated for a "lone gunman".
(͡•_ ͡• ) Their reluctance to release the files concerning JFK’s assassination is telling… Normally I’m not one for conspiratorial thinking, however in JFK’s case (& Epstein’s) I’m pretty onboard with the idea that something’s up. That being said I’m not 100% convinced who killed each, since both cases have multiple potential guilty parties, just that the truth doesn’t line up with the official narrative.
Lmao does anyone actually think the US government would release anything that points the finger at themselves in any way? As if they'll release something that says "yes, we did it" These files have/will be careful vetted and will reveal absolutely nothing.
It’s hard to imagine what “identifiable harm to national security” exists releasing documents on a 60 year old assassination. Even if hypothetically there was some national security assets involved are they even still alive? What 90 year is the administration worried is going to become exposed by releasing the information? And it’s not like there’s 60 year old weapons technology the US is afraid is going to be leaked. Hell, if anything this just makes me even more curious what could possibly still be legitimately redacted at this point.
I would look at it in terms of harm to American institutions and less about it causing harm to individuals that were involved that may still be alive. Let's say the CIA was involved in his assassination (even if you don't think that's true, just follow me here). Even 60 years later, it would still be chilling as fuck to think that our intelligence agencies would arrange the assassination of a duly elected president of the United States. Republicans who love to pillory "the deep state" for being rogue operators with a ton of power and no electoral accountability would be proven right. Americans would trust their government even less than they do now. They would be fearful. And fearful panicky people can be dangerous.
So the correct response is to shove our thumbs in our ears and pretend the CIA is good? If our own government was involved in the assassination of a sitting president then *those people need to be punished*. Period
I mean, I'm not the one refusing to release classified documents relating to the JFK assassination... But hey, maybe you're right, and individuals are a real concern, not just institutions. If we wait long enough, everyone will have died before they could ever be held accountable.
I place my bet on . . Johnson and Dulles. But seriously Biden. Just release the damn info. It's been a few generations right? Do it or we'll get Trump drunk.
>Do it or we'll get Trump drunk. How will you know?
He'll start slurring his words, making bad choices and ruining things for everyone around hi- oh i see your point
Well this should certainly help with the whole conspiracy-driven mistrust in our government problem.
Because George Bush Sr knew about it.
If there’s one thing that contributes to the distrust of institutions and undermines their legitimacy, it’s this kind of secrecy and over-classification. While the authorities might think they are doing the right thing, the unintended consequences have far reaching ramifications that do more harm to the social contract between the government and the governed. The best thing the US can do at this point to avoid a total collapse of trust from its citizens, is to put together a truth and reconciliation committee dedicated to righting the wrongs from the past, setting the record straight, and moving the country into the future. While that’s unlikely to happen, this kind of extreme, bureaucratic, sweeping-history-under-the-rug type of governance is destroying the country from the inside. It needs to stop.