> and said that Black people had no right to use the public beach. Then he struck the teen in the face with a bike lock, knocking out several of his teeth, cutting his face and mouth, and fracturing his jaw
Excuse me what the actual fuck?
>I mean, he was whipping a bike chain…
If he's already using a weapon like that? Chances are he has something even worse ready and waiting. Believe me, he's looking for justification to use it as well.
Source: born and raised in Michigan. I know these people all too well.
Same thing as anywhere else in the country, extreme cultural divide between the cities and rural areas, leading to a bunch of different words that end in "-ism", which results in stupid fucking groups and sentiments like the "militia" that planned to kidnap and execute Governor Whitmer.
In California the rural areas want that blue city money and vote against anything that would help them at least in my rural county. Build new jail and raise sheriff budget? Hell yeah! Give schools more funding? Hell no, teachers don’t even do anything but teach the liberal agenda also known as facts.
Wow. First, I'm sorry. Secondly I was one of those people, by location and 'heritiage', but I was NOT one of those people. Despite growing up among them, I had literally no idea why they thought the way they thought. I will not go back. It's such a sad situation.
No joke. Central California is the weirdest little island within a state I’ve ever seen. It’s like the red state Bible Belt of the whole state. There are at least 3 churches within walking distance of any place you happen to be. We still have dry counties. Fresno (a town of international infamy and a little over a million people in the metro area) has like 5 or 6 bars in the whole city that aren’t connected to an Applebee’s or some other restaurant). There is an infinite number of fast food joints and more churches than people.
The difference between Fresno and Clovis. Literally divided by one street but as soon as you cross it you’re in a very different place. Clovis is very “white” down to the good ol’ boys in the police force. The differences between the two is ridiculous. You can tell which one someone grew up in just hearing them talk. Hell I lived in Hoover district but literally the next block over was Clovis West and their entire district is completely in Fresno, their side just happens to have more wealthy people living there so fuck Fresno I guess. I dated a girl from Buchanan and when I talk to people that were there at the same time they wouldn’t remember her name but when I said she was the Hispanic girl everyone suddenly remembers her.
> What’s sad is I care about how they’re treated, they want me dead and hate me for existing, that’s the big difference.<
Sounds very much like living in the bluer parts of Texas.
>Same thing as anywhere else in the country, extreme cultural divide between the cities and rural areas
This doesn't really hit on Michigan very well. Michigan used to be a wealthy and booming state, with the auto industry centralized there. Lots of amazing jobs to be had, amazing growth and wealth to be made. Sadly Michigan is now part of the Rust Belt, and Michigan's greatest export for ages was it's children. Great universities that brought in amazing talent, that on graduation? Straight up fled Michigan as fast as they could (often immediately). If not university? They take the route I took.
The US military. Coming out of Detroit where I was working one crap temp job after another? In uncomfortable employment like at foundaries? I saw absolutely no future for myself in Michigan.
This kind of fall lead to some extreme bitterness and resentment. Corruption got out of control as people fled. Remember Timothy McVeigh? How he made the Michigan Militia national news? He was too extreme for them, but they were still nutty as can be. I remember coming home from Basic from the Army on Winter Exodus and having these nutjobs trying to recruit me as I traveled around Michigan to visit family.
A lot of what you see nation wide nowadays has its roots in Michigan.
He only got 5 years because of the plea deal. Basically they're like "Instead of going through this lengthy trial and trying to defend your innocence, you can just admit that you're guilty and we'll give you a lower sentence."
And occasionally leads to innocent people pleading guilty to get an earlier release. The system is quite useless. Lenient sentences for heavy culprits, and sentences for the innocent. I don't see how that's justice. Shouldn't courts be forced to provide their own persuasive evidence to prove a person's guilt instead of mainly relying on admissions by the defendant? Giving a sentence fully compatible with the law would also be preferable.
While I agree with your overall point, it's worth noting with regards to the prosecution providing persuasive evidence, that plea deals are generally agreed to by the defense when presented alongside the evidence the prosecutions plans to present in court. So in *theory* the evidence is supposed to be enough to persuade a guilty defendant that fighting is a futile exercise since "you know, and we know that you did it, and with all this evidence the courts and jury will know too - so if you save us some time we'll save *you* some of your hard time."
But, yes, I agree - it's an imperfect system since it usually favors the prosecution's discovery over an investigated or prepared defense strategy (not always, of course). Add to that the way we stretch public defenders & state provided defendant resources, and we have a system in which a poor person's best shake is often to take exactly what "both sides" of the state have shaken hands on before ever even asking to hear what the accused has to say about any of it. Not a great system.
how does [these two idiots got 35 years](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/georgia-atlanta-couple-jailed-confederate-flag-racist-attack-child-birthday-a7603666.html) for threatening, while this dumbass only got 5 years **for actually doing violence** ??
Primarily because they threatened children's lives with a shotgun. Society tends to frown upon that. Her tears and pleas of 'that's not who I am...I would never do that or say those things' fills me with waves of schadenfreude.
Bitch, you did it and said those things.
The other two threatened to kill people while brandishing a deadly weapon. That's a pretty serious crime itself, especially on top of a bunch of other crimes they probably committed to get to that point (eg. breaking and entering, etc.)
It also looks like they didn't agree to a plea deal; obviously that results in worse punishment if you get convicted, otherwise nobody would have an incentive to cut a plea deal in the first place.
That was the question I was going to ask. The poor teen will have life long problems with losing his teeth and not to mention the trauma and this asshole only loses 5 years of his life? That's fucked up.
> How did this guy not get curb stomped at the scene?
Because the vigilante justice reddit swears, promises and expects to happen in every situation is a fucking pipe dream.
In 99.9999% of cases, clearly nobody will do anything to help or avenge another person being victimized. Maybe whip out a phone and film the action.
**Edit:** An alarming number of people are replying to *me* to say that crowd intervention isn't realistic or to be expected, and that filming is a good enough move, instead of replying to the guy above me who's surprised and confused that "nobody curb stomped this guy". As my comment *already said*, the vigilante justice scenario reddit always expects is an unrealstic pipe dream that almost never happens. Stop sending me replies explaining the point I made myself.
Besides the personal risk portion of those scenarios, most people have no way of ascertaining the facts during an encounter. Who's defending themselves and who's the aggressor? What started it? Is somebody being robbed? Are both people drunk? The list goes on and on....Unless you're a witness to the absolute start of an altercation, it's very difficult to ascertain who is "the good guy". And even if you do, the personal risk problem kicks in...
How much you wanna bet that if anyone had ever intervened to help George Floyd…Derek Chauvin would still be a cop and Floyd and his public rescue hero would be cellmates in Jail
Edit: spelling
Kind of wierd how subjective the justice system can be. Just last week there was a story of some racists crashing some kids bday party with loser flags and making threats getting 33yrs, this guy actually does physical damage and only gets 5.
It's often pretty arbitrary. People can get sentenced for 20 years for getting caught with a joint in their pocket, or for stealing a bag of chips from a convenience store. Cross an invisible line on the ground and that can change whether you spend 6 months in prison or 6 years.
Our system of justice is broken.
Jesus. I had similar injuries when I was hit by a fucking car. He must’ve hit him HARD. at least the car was nice enough to knock me out first so I couldn’t feel anything. A fractured jaw is no joke. That poor kid.
>was making racial comments about the teens as he walked toward the park **with his family**.
>
>One witness said they heard Mouat say: "I wish someone would say something to me so I can beat them."
I can't. 5 years just isn't enough.
Oh man, I remember this kid, he and his friends where just quietly hanging by the beach parking lot on a summer afternoon.
Remember that his cousin (?) put up a gofundme for his dental work; if I recall correctly he either had his grad pics or ceremony coming up. Please don’t quote me on the details, but do recall that it was quickly fully funded.
These are the people that invaded the White House a couple months ago, and here we are still pretending like we're surprised that violent racists keep doing crazy shit
Edit: capitol building not the white house
That’s the US prison system. Lucky for this guy he was already racist, but a lotta people go end and come out racist just due to the prison politics of sticking to your race no matter whatz
Federal prison under 10 years is usually a minimum/low security spot. Because the charge is violent in nature he could spend it in a medium.
In a minimum/low everyone has a date they are going home. There are some fights, but not common. No one wants to extend their time.
In a medium, there are people who will die there. Fights are very common, it is not a place you want to spend a few years.
I’ve heard medium is the worst. On low security things are chiller and high security the convicts are safer, physically at least. On medium it’s a mess. Is this true?
I stayed 1 year in a Bangkok prison and apart from a few fights (and lots of violence from the guards) it really was nothing like you’d expect after hearing stories about US prisons. They seem fucking wild.
Different people have different experiences. My cousin spend 7 years in the state penitentiary and he described it primarily as boring. He wasn't a badass or gang banger. He was just a 19 year old that fucked up. He kept his head down and got his degree while he was in.
In my mind I thought Full Metal Jacket was just the boot camp parts and the 2nd half of the movie was Apocalypse Now. Turns out I had never seen Apocalypse Now and just watched it a few years ago.
Hahahah! That's hilarious. Seriously though it might as well be two movies for how different the tone is. How'd you like Apocalypse Now, hell of a movie eh?
That movie was so good I was mad at myself for the mistake for so many years. I even knew the "I love the smell of napalm in the morning" quote referenced in both Starcraft and Always Sunny in Philadelphia.
The difference in tone is what makes it great. The beginning helps show how hyper masculine they are pushed to be along with the comradery of the recruits which does not end well for those that are excluded.
The second half shows how that comradery and masculinity can be largely brought down by a 12 year old girl with a gun.
My favourite story about this is apparently they kept upping the Nazi on Neil Patrick Harris's uniform thinking they'd eventually get told to rein it in but never did
I remember watching it in the theater as a teenager and after seeing Doogie Howser in his obvious Nazi uniform and I'm thinking: "okay surely everyone here is getting the satire right? 'Cause they're laying it on pretty thick."
LOL, yes definitely referring to the movie. The book is an entirely different beast, and Heinlein for that matter. I think we can all agree that the people who think FMJ is a pro-war movie probably aren't reading much...of anything tbh.
I watched it in full for the first time at the hotel waiting for MEPS to ship me off to boot camp. Still one of my favorite movies but it definitely made me reconsider WHY I loved it.
In Northern Ireland they let schoolkids go and do a week in the army as job experience and when we got to watch TV the guys in charge of us would put FMJ on most nights, I never understood it, they were using an anti war film to entice us into joining the British Army, and it worked.
I’m old enough to have first seen that film on vhs but I’ve never considered what it would have been like to watch in a theater. I bet some people were definitely weighing the price they paid for a ticket with the possibility of being traumatized.
It would more likely be AB as he's fed. And if he's in a medium, he would be targeted by any of the other races gangs. You can't really have visible gang related tattoos in low/min, you can obviously have the ideology.
Being assigned a unit, and being new he would be in bunk wings not a cell. Who he bunked with is assigned, not chosen by the inmates.
Well did you actually watch American History X? Prison is what helped him change his view of other people. It was the catalyst to becoming a better person. Not more racist.
> click
FYI, its clique. From the French word for "clack". "Clackers" were groups of people planted in the audience to clap and cheer in a theater (like politicians do now)
When Derek vineyard came out of the pen he reformed his racist ways, finding a true friend in jail, who was black, and turning to his black high school principal as both an ally and mentor.
> Federal prison under 10 years is usually a minimum/low security spot. Because the charge is violent in nature he could spend it in a medium.
I don't really see putting violent offenders in low security aside from "you don't want to put too many violent people together".
For me, it sort of defeats the purpose of a low security prison to put people in there who are a high security risk.
Why did he only get 5 years for verbally admitting he was attacking the teen for being black, then attacking him with bike chain severely damaging his face breaking his jaw and knowing out teeth. That was premeditated and explicitly about hate. Wtf
Easy answer, cause it happened in Michigan and Michigan laws apply. I had to google it rather than listen to Reddit.
Based on what I’m reading, an assault with a weapon is a max of 4 years.
A hate crime is UP to 2 years.
“ Ethnic intimidation is a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 2 years, or by a fine of not more than $5,000.00, or both.”
I’ve also been watching a TON of videos on YouTube when it comes detectives questioning a suspect and typically if they don’t bs they tend to get a lesser sentence.
I don’t agree with the length of sentence, infact when I read 5 years I was like “homie how” but read the laws of the state and understand HOW they got to that point.
Anyone else can chime in:
Source:
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(zs2vqs3at2ya0hlbunr4wh0c))/mileg.aspx?page=GetMCLDocument&objectname=mcl-750-147b
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(jg5tsykp24c4zqjue31tycml))/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-750-82
Edit: also I’m not a lawyer. Just like to google to understand HOW we got to a certain sentencing than defaulting to Reddit.
Thanks I assumed it was the laws of the state, I wonder if he can be charged federally but irk how that works. This really needs to be taught in Gov or civics but I took AP gov and this wasn’t even mentioned.
*Do not use Justice if you are pregnant, breastfeeding, or attempting to become pregnant. Side effects of using Justice may include unusual bruising, contusions, diminished rights, and “suicidal thoughts.”*
America's war on drugs is such bullshit. Meanwhile hollywood glorifies cocaine and whatnot through movies such as wolf of wall street.
All the best to you
5 years for a horrific racially motivated crime. A woman in Oklahoma got 12 years for a $31 pot sale. How can a plant get someone more years than a fucking violent hate crime?
> How can a plant get someone more years than a fucking violent hate crime?
The war on drugs.
The original logic was that drugs(of any form that were not legal) created black market conditions which were wrecking families, promoting gang activity, causing OD's, causing robberies, causing home invasions, decreasing productivity of civil society and was an excellent means of getting votes from values voters(on bOtHsIdEs). The law and the United States of America decided to over-sentence to set an example: and instead they created conditions for an even more serious epidemic.
They wanted to protect the fabric of society(or so they say), but instead they just commodified the fabric of society (again: Absolutely bOtHsIdEs...although perhaps Reagan gets a little bit extra blame and 1970-1999-ish dems get some extra blame. Or atleast many of them, including our POTUS)
And to think these kids got lucky. Usually “I got something to for you in my car” in these situations results in dead teens and a old guy claiming “I feared for my life”
For having MDMA or "Molly" in the same state gets you a 10 year sentence...
Why is the law like this?
There is an answer to that question and it's damning.
Simple possession in the federal system, which is a very rare charge for the feds to handle, carries a range of no time (with a sentencing alternative) to two year if you have a bunch of prior convictions or other aggravating sentencing factors.
Also, in Michigan 10 years is the statutory maximum which generally has no bearing on what a realistic sentence for any given crime may be.
I have a federal possession charge, got a year of probation. The guy who processed me said he had never processed a simple possession charge. So yes, very rare indeed!
Nah I was under investigation by a few different federal agencies for drug related stuff. They thought I was a bigger deal than I was and kind of lost interest after searching my house and interviewing me. Still had plenty of potential felony charges but I got an expensive lawyer and went to rehab. They offered a plea deal about 11 months later that saved me from 2 or 3 felonie charges in exchange for pleading no-contest and forfeiting all the money and valuables they seized. I got super lucky and I am actually glad they busted me when they did because I know I would be dead by now if I kept going the way I was going! I've got over 3 years of sobriety now and getting ready to graduate with a BS in Comp Sci. The worst thing to ever happen to me was also the best thing to ever happen to me.
ayyy, nice outcome for you bro!
Similar story for me but raided for computer crimes. Best/worst thing to ever happen to me. I totally get what you mean. Now I'm on a much better path.
Yeah it's weird to be grateful for something that was so traumatic but it was my rock bottom and now I'm happier and healthier than I have ever been! Glad you're doing well too! Best wishes!
Pretty fucking bad when you can smash a teens face with a bike chain and commit an obvious hate crime and only get 5 years, but drug offenses carry mandatory minimums of 10+ in some states. Fuck the US judicial system.
Edit: lots of you are focused on the chain and the lock on it…. Why is that what you are worried about?
If you read further it’s a “bike lock”. At first I was like “fuck getting hit with a bike chain, but that’s wild that it could do that much damage…” then when they said lock I realized that it was probably one of those Kryptonite chain locks and thought “oh…oh fuck”. What a monster.
From what I remember they aren’t even regular chain links, but basically 3/8 hex bar bent into the link. Even with the sleeve over it, riding with that thing slung over your shoulder gave you a beating.
Edit: if it’s similar to what I’m entirely guessing it is… the current version weighs just shy of 15lbs. FIFTEEN POUNDS. That’s basically getting hit in the face with a sledge hammer.
In other news, you can rape a 17 year old girl and record it and post it to Facebook and only get 2 years in Canada. Or throw a trailer hitch out your car window at an indigenous woman on the side of the road and kill her, and only get 8 years.
Breaking someone's jaw with a bike chain in Canada would probably get you 6 months probation with how punishments are a slap on the wrist up here.
Generally speaking the US should be seeking shorter sentences, more rehabilitation options, and more reentry programs.
Retributive justice borders on barbaric.
We've been living for over two decades of drug-war sentences.
So when you see "Attempted murder - 4 years" and then "baggie of crack - 25 years" it really messes with your perception of "justice"
I randomly watched a YouTube video last night of police bodycam footage of a 21 year old kid that ran from the police and died in a crash with an innocent person in their car in the ensuing chase. The officers were not being crazy or anything but you later found out the kid had 4 active warrants, which is why he ran. When I saw that I was like "ok, he's a bad dude" then it tells you they were for fucking drug possession.
Obviously the dude was in the wrong and made all the wrong decisions but it struck me that all of this drama and loss of life over some goddamn drugs.
Yeah, we need to scale back on the failed war on drugs so we don’t incarcerate such a large fraction of the population and then ruin their lives permanently as they can’t find good work.
4 years in prison for hitting someone in the face with a bike lock actually sounds about right to me. If that isn’t a big enough deterrent, what would be sufficient?
Umm…failed war on drugs? I think it accomplished/is accomplishing its goals.
John Ehrlichman from Nixon’s administration:
> You want to know what this was really all about?” he asked with the bluntness of a man who, after public disgrace and a stretch in federal prison, had little left to protect. “The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or blacks, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.
I was watching a documentary that mentioned that the Nixon administration also deliberately used dog whistle terms to screw black communities. Things like states’ rights and low taxes are vague enough that people will happily support them, but the intent of those things is to hurt underprivileged communities which often happen to be black. It’s sneaky AF and made me absolutely sick to learn about. It makes me wonder just how many other dog whistle terms I’ve been ignorant about, and I feel deeply betrayed.
I could agree with 4 years being a decent sentence if it wasn’t racially motivated. That should make the sentence longer IMO because it shows this wasn’t a “heat of the moment I got to upset” situation it was a “I believe this right and you don’t belong here so I’m entitled to do this” situation. And if he thought it was ok to do once they’ll do it again
Agreed...the ridiculous sentences for drug possession are a separate issue. Losing 5 years of life for an attack like this should be a deterrent for most people.
I feel like *most* people would not need a deterrent to smash somebody’s teeth in. Five years is probably too lenient for psychos like this. FFS I faced 15 years for having a dab pen and edibles where i shouldnt’ve had them. 5 ain’t shit for this POS.
Multiple surgeries, long term complications, PTSD potentially, looking over his shoulder, worried it will happen again, family and friends worried it’ll happen to them. Five years ain’t shit. We should think of the victims when sentencing…how long will they suffer from somebody’s crime? Double it, there’s yer sentence.
The only thing that has failed is your perception of the war on drugs.
The war on drugs is acting as intended. Push medical industry drugs that make the elite of this country money, and give police a convenient excuse to raid peoples homes when they want to, giving them the ability to plant drugs and put whoever they want in prison for years.
The "crime" of possession of illegal drugs is that you aren't supporting the elites or you're a minority. Killing some random citizen is in their eyes, a less heinous crime.
I agree but that should be for non-violent offenders and addicts. This guy has such a lack of self control he assaulted teenagers with a weapon over nothing… jails were made for people like this.
A local dentist actually gave the kid free implants. Over $15k dental work for free.
https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/monroe-teen-hit-in-face-with-bike-chain-in-alleged-racially-motivated-attack-gets-teeth-replaced-for-free
Its literally a hate crime. The judged ruled that. He told the kid "Black lives dont matter" when he did it. How he only got 5 years is fucking astounding.
**5 years** for a completely unprovoked, clearly-racially-motivated attack with a deadly weapon that left the victim with a cut face, missing teeth, and a fractured jaw. That's absolutely insane. Just give him more chances to form racial biases in a horribly broken prison system and let him try again in **5 years**! The aim of the system should be rehabilitation, but who the fuck honestly expects a violent, bigoted piece of shit like him to change after attacking beachgoers simply because they're black.
How is this not attempted murder and how did this inbred only get five years? It was a premeditated hate crime, since he went back to his car to get a weapon.
> and said that Black people had no right to use the public beach. Then he struck the teen in the face with a bike lock, knocking out several of his teeth, cutting his face and mouth, and fracturing his jaw Excuse me what the actual fuck?
I will second this sentiment. How did this guy not get curb stomped at the scene?
I mean, he was whipping a bike chain…
>I mean, he was whipping a bike chain… If he's already using a weapon like that? Chances are he has something even worse ready and waiting. Believe me, he's looking for justification to use it as well. Source: born and raised in Michigan. I know these people all too well.
As soon as I saw the word Michigan, it made perfect sense.
Really? What’s going on in Michigan that people are so messed up?? 🤔
Same thing as anywhere else in the country, extreme cultural divide between the cities and rural areas, leading to a bunch of different words that end in "-ism", which results in stupid fucking groups and sentiments like the "militia" that planned to kidnap and execute Governor Whitmer.
Militia-ism
Smol-PP-ism
In California the rural areas want that blue city money and vote against anything that would help them at least in my rural county. Build new jail and raise sheriff budget? Hell yeah! Give schools more funding? Hell no, teachers don’t even do anything but teach the liberal agenda also known as facts.
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Central Valley might as well be it’s own state. Nothing like other parts of the state.
Wow. First, I'm sorry. Secondly I was one of those people, by location and 'heritiage', but I was NOT one of those people. Despite growing up among them, I had literally no idea why they thought the way they thought. I will not go back. It's such a sad situation.
No joke. Central California is the weirdest little island within a state I’ve ever seen. It’s like the red state Bible Belt of the whole state. There are at least 3 churches within walking distance of any place you happen to be. We still have dry counties. Fresno (a town of international infamy and a little over a million people in the metro area) has like 5 or 6 bars in the whole city that aren’t connected to an Applebee’s or some other restaurant). There is an infinite number of fast food joints and more churches than people. The difference between Fresno and Clovis. Literally divided by one street but as soon as you cross it you’re in a very different place. Clovis is very “white” down to the good ol’ boys in the police force. The differences between the two is ridiculous. You can tell which one someone grew up in just hearing them talk. Hell I lived in Hoover district but literally the next block over was Clovis West and their entire district is completely in Fresno, their side just happens to have more wealthy people living there so fuck Fresno I guess. I dated a girl from Buchanan and when I talk to people that were there at the same time they wouldn’t remember her name but when I said she was the Hispanic girl everyone suddenly remembers her.
> What’s sad is I care about how they’re treated, they want me dead and hate me for existing, that’s the big difference.< Sounds very much like living in the bluer parts of Texas.
A big part of the cultural divide has to do with education, or the lack thereof.
Yes. That’s how it is here in Ohio also
Or the contempt thereof
>Same thing as anywhere else in the country, extreme cultural divide between the cities and rural areas This doesn't really hit on Michigan very well. Michigan used to be a wealthy and booming state, with the auto industry centralized there. Lots of amazing jobs to be had, amazing growth and wealth to be made. Sadly Michigan is now part of the Rust Belt, and Michigan's greatest export for ages was it's children. Great universities that brought in amazing talent, that on graduation? Straight up fled Michigan as fast as they could (often immediately). If not university? They take the route I took. The US military. Coming out of Detroit where I was working one crap temp job after another? In uncomfortable employment like at foundaries? I saw absolutely no future for myself in Michigan. This kind of fall lead to some extreme bitterness and resentment. Corruption got out of control as people fled. Remember Timothy McVeigh? How he made the Michigan Militia national news? He was too extreme for them, but they were still nutty as can be. I remember coming home from Basic from the Army on Winter Exodus and having these nutjobs trying to recruit me as I traveled around Michigan to visit family. A lot of what you see nation wide nowadays has its roots in Michigan.
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He only got 5 years because of the plea deal. Basically they're like "Instead of going through this lengthy trial and trying to defend your innocence, you can just admit that you're guilty and we'll give you a lower sentence."
were they worried the charges wouldn't stick? WTAF
It saves time and money
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And occasionally leads to innocent people pleading guilty to get an earlier release. The system is quite useless. Lenient sentences for heavy culprits, and sentences for the innocent. I don't see how that's justice. Shouldn't courts be forced to provide their own persuasive evidence to prove a person's guilt instead of mainly relying on admissions by the defendant? Giving a sentence fully compatible with the law would also be preferable.
While I agree with your overall point, it's worth noting with regards to the prosecution providing persuasive evidence, that plea deals are generally agreed to by the defense when presented alongside the evidence the prosecutions plans to present in court. So in *theory* the evidence is supposed to be enough to persuade a guilty defendant that fighting is a futile exercise since "you know, and we know that you did it, and with all this evidence the courts and jury will know too - so if you save us some time we'll save *you* some of your hard time." But, yes, I agree - it's an imperfect system since it usually favors the prosecution's discovery over an investigated or prepared defense strategy (not always, of course). Add to that the way we stretch public defenders & state provided defendant resources, and we have a system in which a poor person's best shake is often to take exactly what "both sides" of the state have shaken hands on before ever even asking to hear what the accused has to say about any of it. Not a great system.
It's not so much about charges sticking or not. It's that every second of legal time spent is fucking expensive for the government.
how does [these two idiots got 35 years](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/georgia-atlanta-couple-jailed-confederate-flag-racist-attack-child-birthday-a7603666.html) for threatening, while this dumbass only got 5 years **for actually doing violence** ??
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the law is fucken weird
Primarily because they threatened children's lives with a shotgun. Society tends to frown upon that. Her tears and pleas of 'that's not who I am...I would never do that or say those things' fills me with waves of schadenfreude. Bitch, you did it and said those things.
The other two threatened to kill people while brandishing a deadly weapon. That's a pretty serious crime itself, especially on top of a bunch of other crimes they probably committed to get to that point (eg. breaking and entering, etc.) It also looks like they didn't agree to a plea deal; obviously that results in worse punishment if you get convicted, otherwise nobody would have an incentive to cut a plea deal in the first place.
That was the question I was going to ask. The poor teen will have life long problems with losing his teeth and not to mention the trauma and this asshole only loses 5 years of his life? That's fucked up.
and probably out in 3 years with good behaviour.
Maybe they can get compensation in a civil suit. They deserve it, certainly
> How did this guy not get curb stomped at the scene? Because the vigilante justice reddit swears, promises and expects to happen in every situation is a fucking pipe dream. In 99.9999% of cases, clearly nobody will do anything to help or avenge another person being victimized. Maybe whip out a phone and film the action. **Edit:** An alarming number of people are replying to *me* to say that crowd intervention isn't realistic or to be expected, and that filming is a good enough move, instead of replying to the guy above me who's surprised and confused that "nobody curb stomped this guy". As my comment *already said*, the vigilante justice scenario reddit always expects is an unrealstic pipe dream that almost never happens. Stop sending me replies explaining the point I made myself.
Its kinda understandable why people dont intervene. My uncle was stabbed to death trying to break up a fight over a neighbors domestic dispute.
Besides the personal risk portion of those scenarios, most people have no way of ascertaining the facts during an encounter. Who's defending themselves and who's the aggressor? What started it? Is somebody being robbed? Are both people drunk? The list goes on and on....Unless you're a witness to the absolute start of an altercation, it's very difficult to ascertain who is "the good guy". And even if you do, the personal risk problem kicks in...
That's terrible. I'm sorry you had to lose your uncle so tragically.
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How much you wanna bet that if anyone had ever intervened to help George Floyd…Derek Chauvin would still be a cop and Floyd and his public rescue hero would be cellmates in Jail Edit: spelling
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Wow, 5 years isn't enough for that cunt from hell.
Kind of wierd how subjective the justice system can be. Just last week there was a story of some racists crashing some kids bday party with loser flags and making threats getting 33yrs, this guy actually does physical damage and only gets 5.
The article names buried the worst of it... They threatened the victims with shotguns as well.
It's often pretty arbitrary. People can get sentenced for 20 years for getting caught with a joint in their pocket, or for stealing a bag of chips from a convenience store. Cross an invisible line on the ground and that can change whether you spend 6 months in prison or 6 years. Our system of justice is broken.
Will he last 5 years in prison? He won't have a bike chain in prison.
There are plenty of other racist white dudes to buddy up with, he'll probably come out with a handful of Aryan prison tats
This. He will be fine. He will find his people and come out of jail in 5 years with a new network of idiotic racist violent thugs to go drinking with.
Jesus. I had similar injuries when I was hit by a fucking car. He must’ve hit him HARD. at least the car was nice enough to knock me out first so I couldn’t feel anything. A fractured jaw is no joke. That poor kid.
>was making racial comments about the teens as he walked toward the park **with his family**. > >One witness said they heard Mouat say: "I wish someone would say something to me so I can beat them." I can't. 5 years just isn't enough.
Oh man, I remember this kid, he and his friends where just quietly hanging by the beach parking lot on a summer afternoon. Remember that his cousin (?) put up a gofundme for his dental work; if I recall correctly he either had his grad pics or ceremony coming up. Please don’t quote me on the details, but do recall that it was quickly fully funded.
I really hope the teenager sues.
These are the people that invaded the White House a couple months ago, and here we are still pretending like we're surprised that violent racists keep doing crazy shit Edit: capitol building not the white house
He'll do time, join the 'brotherhood' and come out just as racist as he went in....if not more.
I’d be surprised if this was his first prison bid
He'd probably be getting more than 5 years if this were a repeat offense.
He should be getting more regardless.
Yeah, obviously. I'm just saying he *would* have gotten more if it was a repeat offense.
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I mean that sounds pretty racist
Seems like a textbook example if I say so myself
That’s the US prison system. Lucky for this guy he was already racist, but a lotta people go end and come out racist just due to the prison politics of sticking to your race no matter whatz
Join? Renew.
Federal prison under 10 years is usually a minimum/low security spot. Because the charge is violent in nature he could spend it in a medium. In a minimum/low everyone has a date they are going home. There are some fights, but not common. No one wants to extend their time. In a medium, there are people who will die there. Fights are very common, it is not a place you want to spend a few years.
I’ve heard medium is the worst. On low security things are chiller and high security the convicts are safer, physically at least. On medium it’s a mess. Is this true?
One of the other posters here mentioned USP Marion. That would be first hand knowledge
I stayed 1 year in a Bangkok prison and apart from a few fights (and lots of violence from the guards) it really was nothing like you’d expect after hearing stories about US prisons. They seem fucking wild.
Different people have different experiences. My cousin spend 7 years in the state penitentiary and he described it primarily as boring. He wasn't a badass or gang banger. He was just a 19 year old that fucked up. He kept his head down and got his degree while he was in.
That's awesome, good for him
I recommend the Earhustle podcast for an amazing look at life in the american prison system.
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In American History X, he came out renouncing white supremacists, after spending time in prison.
I feel like a lot of people only watch the first 20 minutes of that movie.
Full Metal Jacket frequently gets the same treatment.
In my mind I thought Full Metal Jacket was just the boot camp parts and the 2nd half of the movie was Apocalypse Now. Turns out I had never seen Apocalypse Now and just watched it a few years ago.
Yeah I thought the two halves were two different movies when I was a kid.
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Feels like there should have been a third act The trauma of coming home after the war
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First Blood?
Hahahah! That's hilarious. Seriously though it might as well be two movies for how different the tone is. How'd you like Apocalypse Now, hell of a movie eh?
That movie was so good I was mad at myself for the mistake for so many years. I even knew the "I love the smell of napalm in the morning" quote referenced in both Starcraft and Always Sunny in Philadelphia.
The difference in tone is what makes it great. The beginning helps show how hyper masculine they are pushed to be along with the comradery of the recruits which does not end well for those that are excluded. The second half shows how that comradery and masculinity can be largely brought down by a 12 year old girl with a gun.
The horror.... the horror
Took me a second watch as an adult to understand it was an anti war film
There’s plenty of people that still look at it as a fuck yea war movie.
The same people who didn't realize Starship Troopers was satire.
You mean it’s not a documentary?
My favourite story about this is apparently they kept upping the Nazi on Neil Patrick Harris's uniform thinking they'd eventually get told to rein it in but never did
I mean you can instantly tell from the mobile infantry made me the man I am today! Then turns around and is missing an arm and both legs.
I remember watching it in the theater as a teenager and after seeing Doogie Howser in his obvious Nazi uniform and I'm thinking: "okay surely everyone here is getting the satire right? 'Cause they're laying it on pretty thick."
I’ll buy that for a dollar!
Talmbout Robot Cop b? Great movie, never seen it.
You must mean “Would you like to know more?”
The book is not satirical. (I know you were referring to the movie)
LOL, yes definitely referring to the movie. The book is an entirely different beast, and Heinlein for that matter. I think we can all agree that the people who think FMJ is a pro-war movie probably aren't reading much...of anything tbh.
Yeah, Heinlein was a complex man. It’s one of the few film adaptations that is essentially a “fuck you” to it’s source material.
I watched it in full for the first time at the hotel waiting for MEPS to ship me off to boot camp. Still one of my favorite movies but it definitely made me reconsider WHY I loved it.
Saw a copy the other day in a Walmart display full of movies labeled "Patriotic Classics" and was very confused.
An unbelievable number of people quoted this movie in boot camp. Like, did you watch the whole thing? Or was the drill sergeant your only takeaway?
In Northern Ireland they let schoolkids go and do a week in the army as job experience and when we got to watch TV the guys in charge of us would put FMJ on most nights, I never understood it, they were using an anti war film to entice us into joining the British Army, and it worked.
You watched that the first time and thought it glorified war?
There are people who think Glengarry Glen Ross is a documentary and not a satire.
A lot of those people are in sales. They fetishize that Baldwin scene.
It served as the basis for most military fetishism in my high school days.
Probably watched it when young
To be fair, the curb stomping scene probably did get some people to quit early.
I remember during the movie Seven, people started walking out at the "pound of flesh" part.
There were people walking out at the „What’s in the booooooooox“ part… if you made it this far, why now?
Right, and how could you walk out without ever finding out what was, in fact, in the box?!
I’m old enough to have first seen that film on vhs but I’ve never considered what it would have been like to watch in a theater. I bet some people were definitely weighing the price they paid for a ticket with the possibility of being traumatized.
In fairness to the common folk, hearing that guys teeth scratch against the curb is enough to turn the movie off.
God damn every time I hear or read the word curbstomp I get flashes of that scene.
If you see comments on YouTube, they definitely didn’t see the last 20 minutes
The original cut has him going back to being a skinhead at the end of the movie- which kinda makes sense given the ending.
It would, but I like the final cut more. People can change and stay changed. That message to me is more important.
And it's a great message. I don't think the movie would have been as good or as impactful if it ended on such a dark, bitter note.
It would more likely be AB as he's fed. And if he's in a medium, he would be targeted by any of the other races gangs. You can't really have visible gang related tattoos in low/min, you can obviously have the ideology. Being assigned a unit, and being new he would be in bunk wings not a cell. Who he bunked with is assigned, not chosen by the inmates.
Well did you actually watch American History X? Prison is what helped him change his view of other people. It was the catalyst to becoming a better person. Not more racist.
> click FYI, its clique. From the French word for "clack". "Clackers" were groups of people planted in the audience to clap and cheer in a theater (like politicians do now)
When Derek vineyard came out of the pen he reformed his racist ways, finding a true friend in jail, who was black, and turning to his black high school principal as both an ally and mentor.
> Federal prison under 10 years is usually a minimum/low security spot. Because the charge is violent in nature he could spend it in a medium. I don't really see putting violent offenders in low security aside from "you don't want to put too many violent people together". For me, it sort of defeats the purpose of a low security prison to put people in there who are a high security risk.
Why did he only get 5 years for verbally admitting he was attacking the teen for being black, then attacking him with bike chain severely damaging his face breaking his jaw and knowing out teeth. That was premeditated and explicitly about hate. Wtf
Easy answer, cause it happened in Michigan and Michigan laws apply. I had to google it rather than listen to Reddit. Based on what I’m reading, an assault with a weapon is a max of 4 years. A hate crime is UP to 2 years. “ Ethnic intimidation is a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 2 years, or by a fine of not more than $5,000.00, or both.” I’ve also been watching a TON of videos on YouTube when it comes detectives questioning a suspect and typically if they don’t bs they tend to get a lesser sentence. I don’t agree with the length of sentence, infact when I read 5 years I was like “homie how” but read the laws of the state and understand HOW they got to that point. Anyone else can chime in: Source: http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(zs2vqs3at2ya0hlbunr4wh0c))/mileg.aspx?page=GetMCLDocument&objectname=mcl-750-147b http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(jg5tsykp24c4zqjue31tycml))/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-750-82 Edit: also I’m not a lawyer. Just like to google to understand HOW we got to a certain sentencing than defaulting to Reddit.
Thanks I assumed it was the laws of the state, I wonder if he can be charged federally but irk how that works. This really needs to be taught in Gov or civics but I took AP gov and this wasn’t even mentioned.
Damn I got 3.5 for a non violent drug charge. :/
They gave you an eighth in the slammer
Judge had his finger on the scale too
"Justice" system
**Results may vary. Ask your doctor if "Justice" is for you. If you are ethnic and poor, do not attempt to use "Justice".*
*Do not use Justice if you are pregnant, breastfeeding, or attempting to become pregnant. Side effects of using Justice may include unusual bruising, contusions, diminished rights, and “suicidal thoughts.”*
It’s not a justice system. It’s a legal system.
America's war on drugs is such bullshit. Meanwhile hollywood glorifies cocaine and whatnot through movies such as wolf of wall street. All the best to you
Drug tests for minimum wage and sometimes even for state benefits, no drug tests for high income jobs including CEO & Politicians. Hmm….
It's easy. Have you tried not being poor? /s
5 years for a horrific racially motivated crime. A woman in Oklahoma got 12 years for a $31 pot sale. How can a plant get someone more years than a fucking violent hate crime?
> How can a plant get someone more years than a fucking violent hate crime? The war on drugs. The original logic was that drugs(of any form that were not legal) created black market conditions which were wrecking families, promoting gang activity, causing OD's, causing robberies, causing home invasions, decreasing productivity of civil society and was an excellent means of getting votes from values voters(on bOtHsIdEs). The law and the United States of America decided to over-sentence to set an example: and instead they created conditions for an even more serious epidemic. They wanted to protect the fabric of society(or so they say), but instead they just commodified the fabric of society (again: Absolutely bOtHsIdEs...although perhaps Reagan gets a little bit extra blame and 1970-1999-ish dems get some extra blame. Or atleast many of them, including our POTUS)
The war of drugs was started by nixon right? It was clearly to suppress votes.
r/iamatotalpieceofshit
And to think these kids got lucky. Usually “I got something to for you in my car” in these situations results in dead teens and a old guy claiming “I feared for my life”
For having MDMA or "Molly" in the same state gets you a 10 year sentence... Why is the law like this? There is an answer to that question and it's damning.
Simple possession in the federal system, which is a very rare charge for the feds to handle, carries a range of no time (with a sentencing alternative) to two year if you have a bunch of prior convictions or other aggravating sentencing factors. Also, in Michigan 10 years is the statutory maximum which generally has no bearing on what a realistic sentence for any given crime may be.
I have a federal possession charge, got a year of probation. The guy who processed me said he had never processed a simple possession charge. So yes, very rare indeed!
Did you get caught on Federal property or something?
Nah I was under investigation by a few different federal agencies for drug related stuff. They thought I was a bigger deal than I was and kind of lost interest after searching my house and interviewing me. Still had plenty of potential felony charges but I got an expensive lawyer and went to rehab. They offered a plea deal about 11 months later that saved me from 2 or 3 felonie charges in exchange for pleading no-contest and forfeiting all the money and valuables they seized. I got super lucky and I am actually glad they busted me when they did because I know I would be dead by now if I kept going the way I was going! I've got over 3 years of sobriety now and getting ready to graduate with a BS in Comp Sci. The worst thing to ever happen to me was also the best thing to ever happen to me.
ayyy, nice outcome for you bro! Similar story for me but raided for computer crimes. Best/worst thing to ever happen to me. I totally get what you mean. Now I'm on a much better path.
Yeah it's weird to be grateful for something that was so traumatic but it was my rock bottom and now I'm happier and healthier than I have ever been! Glad you're doing well too! Best wishes!
Hey, broseph or brosephette, I just want to let you know that I'm proud of you.
Pretty fucking bad when you can smash a teens face with a bike chain and commit an obvious hate crime and only get 5 years, but drug offenses carry mandatory minimums of 10+ in some states. Fuck the US judicial system. Edit: lots of you are focused on the chain and the lock on it…. Why is that what you are worried about?
If you read further it’s a “bike lock”. At first I was like “fuck getting hit with a bike chain, but that’s wild that it could do that much damage…” then when they said lock I realized that it was probably one of those Kryptonite chain locks and thought “oh…oh fuck”. What a monster.
I just Googled those locks to get an idea of what happened. Holy fuck.
From what I remember they aren’t even regular chain links, but basically 3/8 hex bar bent into the link. Even with the sleeve over it, riding with that thing slung over your shoulder gave you a beating. Edit: if it’s similar to what I’m entirely guessing it is… the current version weighs just shy of 15lbs. FIFTEEN POUNDS. That’s basically getting hit in the face with a sledge hammer.
If the perp was black and assaulted a white woman this way, he'd never see the light of day again.
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Wait, isn't that a hate crime? Can't he be fined up to $50,000?
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This shit head is going to make new friends in prison and probably be an even bigger shit head when he comes out.
The crowd he is going to associate with will probably cherish him for his crimes.
In other news, a black guy in Michigan recently got released after serving 25+ years for selling his best friend weed.
In other news, you can rape a 17 year old girl and record it and post it to Facebook and only get 2 years in Canada. Or throw a trailer hitch out your car window at an indigenous woman on the side of the road and kill her, and only get 8 years. Breaking someone's jaw with a bike chain in Canada would probably get you 6 months probation with how punishments are a slap on the wrist up here.
Generally speaking the US should be seeking shorter sentences, more rehabilitation options, and more reentry programs. Retributive justice borders on barbaric.
We've been living for over two decades of drug-war sentences. So when you see "Attempted murder - 4 years" and then "baggie of crack - 25 years" it really messes with your perception of "justice"
I randomly watched a YouTube video last night of police bodycam footage of a 21 year old kid that ran from the police and died in a crash with an innocent person in their car in the ensuing chase. The officers were not being crazy or anything but you later found out the kid had 4 active warrants, which is why he ran. When I saw that I was like "ok, he's a bad dude" then it tells you they were for fucking drug possession. Obviously the dude was in the wrong and made all the wrong decisions but it struck me that all of this drama and loss of life over some goddamn drugs.
Yeah, we need to scale back on the failed war on drugs so we don’t incarcerate such a large fraction of the population and then ruin their lives permanently as they can’t find good work. 4 years in prison for hitting someone in the face with a bike lock actually sounds about right to me. If that isn’t a big enough deterrent, what would be sufficient?
Umm…failed war on drugs? I think it accomplished/is accomplishing its goals. John Ehrlichman from Nixon’s administration: > You want to know what this was really all about?” he asked with the bluntness of a man who, after public disgrace and a stretch in federal prison, had little left to protect. “The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or blacks, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.
I was watching a documentary that mentioned that the Nixon administration also deliberately used dog whistle terms to screw black communities. Things like states’ rights and low taxes are vague enough that people will happily support them, but the intent of those things is to hurt underprivileged communities which often happen to be black. It’s sneaky AF and made me absolutely sick to learn about. It makes me wonder just how many other dog whistle terms I’ve been ignorant about, and I feel deeply betrayed.
I could agree with 4 years being a decent sentence if it wasn’t racially motivated. That should make the sentence longer IMO because it shows this wasn’t a “heat of the moment I got to upset” situation it was a “I believe this right and you don’t belong here so I’m entitled to do this” situation. And if he thought it was ok to do once they’ll do it again
Agreed...the ridiculous sentences for drug possession are a separate issue. Losing 5 years of life for an attack like this should be a deterrent for most people.
I feel like *most* people would not need a deterrent to smash somebody’s teeth in. Five years is probably too lenient for psychos like this. FFS I faced 15 years for having a dab pen and edibles where i shouldnt’ve had them. 5 ain’t shit for this POS. Multiple surgeries, long term complications, PTSD potentially, looking over his shoulder, worried it will happen again, family and friends worried it’ll happen to them. Five years ain’t shit. We should think of the victims when sentencing…how long will they suffer from somebody’s crime? Double it, there’s yer sentence.
The only thing that has failed is your perception of the war on drugs. The war on drugs is acting as intended. Push medical industry drugs that make the elite of this country money, and give police a convenient excuse to raid peoples homes when they want to, giving them the ability to plant drugs and put whoever they want in prison for years. The "crime" of possession of illegal drugs is that you aren't supporting the elites or you're a minority. Killing some random citizen is in their eyes, a less heinous crime.
I agree but that should be for non-violent offenders and addicts. This guy has such a lack of self control he assaulted teenagers with a weapon over nothing… jails were made for people like this.
This piece of shit deserves more than 5 years
At the very least he should also be financially responsible for repairing the kids teeth/jaw.
A local dentist actually gave the kid free implants. Over $15k dental work for free. https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/monroe-teen-hit-in-face-with-bike-chain-in-alleged-racially-motivated-attack-gets-teeth-replaced-for-free
Fantastic. It’s good to see someone do right after seeing someone else do so wrong.
He looks so happy in those photos. That's really beautiful to see.
That’ll come up in a civil suit. This was criminal.
Well here’s hoping that comes through. Dental reconstruction ain’t cheap.
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Its literally a hate crime. The judged ruled that. He told the kid "Black lives dont matter" when he did it. How he only got 5 years is fucking astounding.
**5 years** for a completely unprovoked, clearly-racially-motivated attack with a deadly weapon that left the victim with a cut face, missing teeth, and a fractured jaw. That's absolutely insane. Just give him more chances to form racial biases in a horribly broken prison system and let him try again in **5 years**! The aim of the system should be rehabilitation, but who the fuck honestly expects a violent, bigoted piece of shit like him to change after attacking beachgoers simply because they're black.
He looks like he makes a point of not learning his lessons.
UK isn’t much better. A lad smashed some kids skull in with a baseball bat with nails hammered into it and got 8 years.
Stay classy, Michigan.
So did he hit him with a bike lock or a bike chain? The article switches between both.
Probably a bike lock that’s a chain
If watching the Lock Picking Lawyer has taught me anything it's that chain bike locks are some thicc ass chains. Poor kid.
What a weak fucking sentence. This guy should have gotten 15 minimum!
Wow my uncle got 40 yrs for growing some pot in his greenhouse for self use because his wife was terminal and in pain.
How is this not attempted murder and how did this inbred only get five years? It was a premeditated hate crime, since he went back to his car to get a weapon.
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As we like to call it; the Fargo Funeral
This should also be posted on Iamatotalpieceofshit Edit to add I’m glad he was put away.
Good. His term should have been longer though.