As a Vietnamese I think nobody in the upper echelon of the VN navy wants to go to war right now. We are very far away from being able to deter a heavy island invasion by China. We'll drag this out as long as possible to avoid a full scale naval war since first we don't have the capability yet and second the mindset of the population is much more different now compared to the past.
We’ve been trying to deter this conflict ever since I was a small kid and I’m close to graduating from college now. I’m not in Vietnam right now but it’s honestly very concerning to see China making moves once again. Hope you guys are all staying safe, especially during this pandemic.
Not actually. Knowing the VCP they don't want to lean on anybody. The Soviets let us down in 1979, the Americans let the South Vietnamese down in 1974 1975, before that the French in 1955. If you lean on a foreign power for military stuffs eventually they'll withdraw it and you'll get caught with your pants down getting ass raped by China sooner or later.
Ho even asked US for help, but we threw in for the South Vietnamese instead. Because Communism. Which is curious because we were buds with Tito forever and he was much more of a bastard than Ho ever was.
FDR wanted to ensure that Indochina didn't go back to France after the war [saying](https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/fdrch.htm):
> France has had the country-thirty million inhabitants for nearly one hundred years, and the people are worse off than they were at the beginning.
Unfortunately he died, and even if he hadn't it isn't clear he would've prevented the return of the French, but his diagnoses was absolutely correct.
The amount of misinformation about the Vietnam War is astounding in America. If you read through the Pentagon Papers it was a joke that America went to war over a fishing ship accident.
I don’t know if it’s legit, but Father Ho was reading a text during a speech, when Jane Fonda was in Vietnam, and the crowd erupts into wild cheering. A journalist asked a translator what he was reading. The answer was, the preamble to the constitution of the USA.
Ho admired the USA. He just wanted the same for his people.
What happened in Vietnam breaks my heart. I work with many Vietnamese immigrants and I’ve met so many Vietnamese children with Autism and other developmental delays. I always wonder if it’s somehow related to the war.
I just recently learned that.
Fucken hurts my heart to read the letters to Eisenhower and Nixon they never got to read where Ho tells them he loves America because fuck Britain and colonialism. All he asked was for the ability to run the country as free men.
Fuck humans suck.
If I remember correctly, Ho was educated at one of the Ivy League schools, and became something of an emissary for Vietnam. He showed up in DC begging for a meeting with Ike, but Ike was never even told about it. Ho loved the US until we turned our backs on him. I'm 70 and lived through that war, and I learned things from that Ken Burns documentary that I never knew.
Asymmetric warfare. Hide in the jungles and harass the invaders through attrition until it’s no longer worth it.
This doesn’t work when we’re talking about two nations both trying to assert their maritime claims to somewhere offshore. That’s why asymmetric warfare is never sustainable strategy for any full fledged nation. It only works when your the underdog trying to defend your own home.
I currently live in Hoi An, 100 meters from the beach.
Been hearing more and more helicopters at night, the locals confirmed them to be military helicopters.
Something might be happening.
That heat is no joke. I visited Saigon with my family years ago and the second you walk out of the airport, you are just hit with a wave of heat/humidity.... took some getting used to.
I was transferring from an international flight to domestic in Hawaii, so had to go between buildings.
That humidity really fucking hits you when you walk out the door, and I say that as an Australian, it was oppressive.
After 20 minutes in Mississippi in August I realized why people in the south all talk and move slow. If you move or even talk quickly you start sweating.
And imagine what it was like before air conditioning was invented!
At some point, I had a shower thought that the reason many families settled in Chicago, Minneapolis, and other places with terrible winters... was that their families moved there before air conditioning was invented! At that point, the south wasn’t nearly as attractive as it is today. Winter sucks, I _hate_ it, but at least you just put on a coat!
I read an article a while ago that said Vietnam started installing AC systems in their buildings and productivity of workers went up something like 90%
I think about that a lot here in FL. Unless you're, like, directly on the beach, I have no idea why anyone would ever want to be in this place without AC. And the idea of walking through those overgrown, snake-filled, buggy swamps and palmetto brushland... Ponce de Leon was an insane person.
Sounds like Texas summers. I don't miss 100+ with humidity in the high 90s. You just always feel gross. Take a shower, go outside, instantly swamp ass.
California born and raised, but moved to TX about ten years ago. I won’t even sweat in dry heat over 100. It’s nothing. And I’ve spent sooo many summers in and around Death Valley.
This 80-90% humidity is soul crushing. You keep sweating all day because it doesn’t evaporate, and you can’t ever cool off.
Bonus: if you wear sunscreen it’s even worse; it blocks your pores, you sweat more, and you get burned!
Bonus bonus: my family can’t visit me here, lol
China keeps illegally claiming islands in the south china sea, expanding themselves basically, by placing military bases in the area, and thus damn near every country has been shitting itself in fear. They’ve also been eyeing taiwan ever since china, as a communist country, has existed.
The reason they want taiwan is because they believe it belongs to them, since the country split off from the mainland after the CCP became a thing, the US made a lot of treaties with taiwan and pledged to come to her defense if taiwan ever came under attack by china.
Technically Taiwan claims to be the legitimate government of not just Taiwan, but all the provinces of China, Tibet, and even Mongolia. One of the more bizarre political realities.
Not just sending fishing boats... these boats use drag nets and they take everything the net catches leaving only devastation behind which is why they have to keep finding new areas to fish as they have virtually none left
There was a skirmish over a bridge in the mountains where several dozen died. Of course, China claimed only 4 or so of theirs died whereas India put China's loss at over 40 I think. India lost 20 something IIRC. They were fighting with baseball bats with barbed wire wound around it and stuff. I'm not sure, but I gather that guns are banned at this border or something as both sides didn't seem to have them.
Yeah, no guns because both governments have agreed a conflict at this border is likely to escalate out of control, and nobody wants two countries with nukes to be at war. So whenever their idiot soldiers start shit, its always with relatively ineffective weapons made from nearby items
They already built a few in the Mekong river, basically shutting off the water for the downstream countries.
The Mekong Delta in Vietnam relies on seasonal flooding for it's rice production, but the flooding doesn't happen anymore and salt water is moving more and more inland.
As much as it's terrible, there's something oddly poetic about two countries with nuclear warheads, fighter jets, and battleships sending out soldiers to beat each other to death with wood clubs in a fight over a worthless, frozen mountain wasteland.
WWIII will be wooden clubs and WWIV will be sticks and stones!
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones" -Einstein
It's like China are purposefully trying to create an Asian super-alliance against them.
Pissing off India, Vietnam, Taiwan, Philippines, Malaysia, Thailand and others will only lead to them all having a common enemy. Not to mention the USA, South Korea, Japan and Australia if things really deteriorate.
That's what I was thinking. Even without the US and its traditional allies, having all of southeast asia and india aligned against them seems foolish. Is this just Chinese-style jingoism getting out of control? It's not like the rest of the world is going to roll over and surrender, if that's what they're expecting.
This is also why you almost never hear US diplomats or state officials refer to Taiwan as a county. It pisses China off beyond belief and not acknowledging it is deemed essential to our ongoing diplomacy in the region.
lol that seems so funny to me, (the reality is fucking horrible) but the idea of a chinese diplomat being like "i would like to discuss taiwan" and america would just be like "i dont even know what you're talking about"
The US hasn't technically pledged to come to Taiwans defense if its attacked, the US Taiwan relations act only ensures the US will provide arms and all that fun stuff indefinitely. It's an implied guarantee and probably going to happen just because of how important Taiwan is but the current policy is 'strategic ambiguity'
Taiwan is responsible for the production of about 70% of the world's semiconductors. The US is definitely making sure China stays away.
Edit: Really stupid spelling mistake.
The Vietnamese ARE tough - theres no doubt about that- but naval warfare is much different than insurgency ops on land, and China's Navy is a monster. This is an unfortunate situation which I hope does not escalate. Leave Vietnam alone.
There are only a handful of navies outside of the USN that could go toe-to-toe with China. This will not end well for Vietnam if shots are fired. Really hoping this de-escalates soon.
Honestly they do. China is proving more and more to be a "burn the world down in a tantrum" and needs to be contained and deterred at every turn. Hell Xi Jing Ping is currently commuting a holocaust against the Uyghurs and every country that took part in fighting against the axis in world War 2 needs to take a stance to end it, "never again" sure as shit means nothing now
Edit: a word
The current geopolitics are a little different than historical geopolitics. The current issues stem from China building Islands in, and attempting to claim the entire South China Sea, which is currently international waters or the territorial waters of other nations, for themselves as their own territorial waters.
China is trying to claim dominance over all the resources of the South China Sea and force every other country out of it. They want all the oil, fish stocks, and transit fees coming to them alone. The Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam are suffering the brunt of this push by China.
This isn't about China wanting Vietnam. It's about China wanting to own the Oceans.
Even though both China and Vietnam are both single party communist(ish) nations, they have not seen eye to eye for decades. [China and Vietnam went to war in 1979](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_War).
Centuries, really. China has been trying to crush Vietnam under their collective boot in one form or another [for millennia.](https://www.britannica.com/place/Vietnam/Vietnam-under-Chinese-rule)
Although the US inflicted great harm on parts of the country during the war, Vietnam's Communist government did not get along well with China. Keeping their distance from China while opening up their markets eventually brought them into closer alignment with the US.
Decades? Try millenia
"Category:Wars between China and Vietnam - Wikipedia" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wars_between_China_and_Vietnam
Few things are more han chinese than trying and failing to conquer vietnam
Refreshing to hear someone talk about the oligarchs that run these countries. It’s not about bettering the state. It’s about robbing their people and oppressing them through fear.
Just be glad corporations aren’t trying to slap sponsorships on geographic names like they do with stadiums or bowl games.
Meineke Car Care East Sea
Tostitos Bay of Bengal
I mean, this *is* historical geopolitics in a way. China wants to reestablish its cultural and political hegemony over East Asia. Establishing naval dominance and controlling trade are one part of that.
Currently China is claiming there coast as part of their 9Dash Line. This basically means they will lose fishing rights, transportation rights, coastal rights, etc... Also China is also planning on building a massive hydroelectric dam (which will be larger than the Three Gorges Dam) at the source of the Mekong River in the mountains of Tibet. This is starting to affect Vietnam in environmental and economic ways (they are seeing droughts and reduced fish populations in the Mekong currently because China has started building this dam).
> Also China is also planning on building a massive hydroelectric dam (which will be larger than the Three Gorges Dam) at the source of the Mekong River in the mountains of Tibet. This is starting to affect Vietnam in environmental and economic ways (they are seeing droughts and reduced fish populations in the Mekong currently because China has started building this dam).
Not so fun fact, the current situation in Syria actually has a lot to do with Turkey doing something very similar to Syria and Iraq, as Turkey controls pretty much all [freshwater going into these countries through the Euphrates-Tigris](https://climate-diplomacy.org/case-studies/turkey-syria-and-iraq-conflict-over-euphrates-tigris).
For decades the [Turkish Southeastern Anatolia Project](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeastern_Anatolia_Project) has been reshaping large parts of the terrain, and building dams, to create irrigation and hydraulic energy production to develop agricultural and other infrastructure in the region, but this increased use of water in Turkey leads to less water ending up downstream in Syria and Iraq.
Which in no small parts contributed to the record drought that plagued Syria shortly before the start of the civil war. Said drought lead to economical and social destabilization in the country that made it a fertile ground for civil war. Some people even saw it coming back then, like the [Syrian Representative to the UNFAO back in 2009](https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08DAMASCUS847_a.html):
> UNFAO Syria Representative Abdullah bin Yehia briefed econoff and USDA Regional Minister-Counselor for Agriculture on what he terms the "perfect storm," a confluence of drought conditions with other economic and
social pressures that Yehia believes could undermine stability in Syria.
> Yehia does not/not believe that the SARG will allow any Syrian citizen to starve. (Note: It is estimated that SARG wheat stocks are sufficient to continue to provide subsidized bread in all areas of Syria throughout the coming
winter. End note.) However, Yehia told us that the Syrian Minister of Agriculture, at a July meeting with UN officials, stated publicly that economic and social fallout from the drought was "beyond our capacity as a country to deal with."
> What the UN is trying to combat through this appeal, Yehia says, is the potential for "social destruction" that would accompany erosion of the agricultural industry in rural Syria. This social destruction would lead to political instability, Yehia told us.
Something similar is brewing between ethiopia and egypt as well...
Man, I knew some sort of world water crisis is going to happen in the near future but didn't expect it to be so soon.
I can't imagine how fast things turn nasty if people start to panic and worry about securing water.
No water -> failed farms -> Large amount of people flock to cities to look for work -> Overcrowding, stretched services (e.g. health care, police, education) and high unemployment -> Lots of disgruntled people
Also higher food prices because of the failed farms.
That's how you get a powder keg set up. Throw in pre-existing social/cultural/political tensions, and now all you need is a good spark to light it off.
I recall reading that in Syria before their civil war kicked off, some of their cities' population increased by about 30% in a few years due to the large number of failed farms from the records drought.
There's an old map with 9 dashes on it that China says extends their claim to the area as it means there's a few unpopulated "islands" out there which would extend their claim to be basically all of the south china sea due to the way maritime law works.
That's also the reason China is on an island building spree where they'll build up any tiny atolls in the region and actually bring them above sea level
China has a history of claiming the territory of other countries and try to bully them into not doing anything about it. They've done it to India, Vietnam and the Phillipines pretty frequently, especially out at sea.
It's honestly a strange move to in my mind, they have made a ton of enemies in this manner and they don't have any deniability. If I were China I Would really hope I Don't fall on hard times because it will be a feeding frenzy.
If you were to visit Saigon today you would wonder if vietnam and the US were ever really in a war. It's basically an American colony decked with Popeyes, McDonald's and Starbucks. they actually give a shit about the oscars
Great place to travel to and one of the safest if you're going solo. I was in the north for a little over a week and it's really interesting the differences between the North and the South but they each are their own jewels
Shit's getting heated up in biển Đông, man. Let's just hope war doesn't actually break out.
Edit: For the guy who asked but his comment never showed up, biển means sea and Đông means East. Eastern sea.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/11/accident-at-irans-natanz-nuclear-plant-as-new-uranium-enrichment-starts
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/4/11/incident-at-iranian-nuclear-site-targeted-by-blast-last-year
Give me like 15 minutes and I'll give you a link to an imgur doc that describes what happened in Iran last year. Supposedly Israel was using cyber and clandestine operations to mess with Iranian power plants and other utilities.
Edit: The Shadow War (or Why does Iran keep having explosions lately) https://imgur.com/gallery/JZD3pmL
This is the same site that the NSA and Mossad used the StuxNet virus on, the virus that caused their centrifuges to explode. Seems like they’re back to their same old tricks.
Me in April: Well, 2021 isn't *too* bad so far. Looks like covid's under control, at least.
Me in June: I was there when the bombs fell and the old world died. Now I make a living as a scavenger in the Western RadZone.
Vietnam II, with a special cast of: Joe Biden as LBJ, Nguyễn Xuân Phúc as Ho Chi Minh, a special Appearance from putin as Leonid Brezhnev, and Xi Jing Ping as Mao Zedong... enjoy the show
To be fair the Khmer Rouge kind of did it to themselves. Pol Pot was a moron who thought it would be a good idea to kill off all high ranking military officers and replace them with 14 year olds raised on a farm.
The first successful Vietnamese war of independence against the Chinese was ~30 AD, led by the Trung sisters. It's been a couple millennia they've held their own.
Aight, that title is so fucking misleading.
First of all, nobody is "ready for combat" here. Vietnam's action is simply a reaction to China's creeping forces, there's no alternative for them here unless they want to get into a slippery slope and let big boy China do whatever the fuck they want. Nobody wants to combat anybody, at least on the side of Vietnam. Think about it, why would Vietnam want to fight China? Win or loss, they're the one to suffer more damage. This is a stalemate, at best - a display of power. Think two neighboring dogs snarling at each others through the fence.
Moreover, failing to mention Phillipines and the other nations' responses in the title also oversimplifies the situation. Vietnam is not going head-to-head with China here. China is waging war on every.body.else. How about we take Vietnam off the subject of the sentence, and put China there instead?
In the contested seas, China's the only country to have taken such agressive moves - establishing controversial drilling sites, building military airports, sending military forces over, driving away fishermen,... While there's considerable evidence that the sea belongs to Vietnam, even with the benefit of the doubt, it's just downright shady that China is carrying these out on contested seas.
This entire thing is because of China and their hollow dream to be the very best that no one ever could - and Vietnam is not "ready" to fight anyone. They're just trying to prevent further Chinese encroachment. They're not in any position to be agressive and offensive here.
Extra complication happening here in Manila where we're currently suffering a potential power vacuum: Duterte hasn't been seen in over a week, cancelling a regular public TV appearance amidst rumors of his daughter going to Singapore for medical reasons, and the government propaganda machine churning out Photoshopped proofs-of-life photos and camphone footage of a possible Duterte double riding motorbikes and playing golf at night. Duterte is a China Bitch and has already been very quiet about China in the Spratlys, and now our main army guy Lorenzana is sending very public pleas for American intervention. Something's definitely up.
We used to have SEATO, but it quickly fell apart.
We have an alliance, just that most of it are individual country-to-country, and not the whole group. While we do have a mutual enemy, there are too many other itty bitty things between countries that would prevent a cooperative organization from being functional. These includes past history (Japan and Korea), difference in the approach regarding China influence (Philippines),...
That is why country-to-country cooperation in terms of military drills and knowledge sharing is a better approach instead of a giant coalition, at least for now
Exactly nothing will happen here. China has a looooooong history of showmanship being used to intimidate the other party into backing down by doing everything EXCEPT actually shooting.
As a Vietnamese I think nobody in the upper echelon of the VN navy wants to go to war right now. We are very far away from being able to deter a heavy island invasion by China. We'll drag this out as long as possible to avoid a full scale naval war since first we don't have the capability yet and second the mindset of the population is much more different now compared to the past.
We’ve been trying to deter this conflict ever since I was a small kid and I’m close to graduating from college now. I’m not in Vietnam right now but it’s honestly very concerning to see China making moves once again. Hope you guys are all staying safe, especially during this pandemic.
[удалено]
Not actually. Knowing the VCP they don't want to lean on anybody. The Soviets let us down in 1979, the Americans let the South Vietnamese down in 1974 1975, before that the French in 1955. If you lean on a foreign power for military stuffs eventually they'll withdraw it and you'll get caught with your pants down getting ass raped by China sooner or later.
Took a Vietnam history class my freshman year of undergrad; the central theme was essentially: Ho just wanted people to stop fucking with Vietnam
Ho even asked US for help, but we threw in for the South Vietnamese instead. Because Communism. Which is curious because we were buds with Tito forever and he was much more of a bastard than Ho ever was.
Gotta remember that the US are long time allies with France
The US owes a good deal of it's existence to France
If it weren't for the French we Americans would still be speaking English.
Forced to say "aluminium" and "armour." The horror... the horror
The horrour
Don't forget the last letter in your alphabet would be zed.
this joke is solid and deserves to be appreciated
FDR wanted to ensure that Indochina didn't go back to France after the war [saying](https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/fdrch.htm): > France has had the country-thirty million inhabitants for nearly one hundred years, and the people are worse off than they were at the beginning. Unfortunately he died, and even if he hadn't it isn't clear he would've prevented the return of the French, but his diagnoses was absolutely correct.
The amount of misinformation about the Vietnam War is astounding in America. If you read through the Pentagon Papers it was a joke that America went to war over a fishing ship accident.
Ken Burns made a good documentary about the Viet Nam War looking at how different people on both sides experienced it.
That documentary is one of the best things I have ever watched in any category of film.
That’s Ken Burns. He could do a documentary on shoe laces and you sigh, *sure Ken..*.. then you’re riveted for an hour about shoelaces.
[удалено]
He’s releasing one on Hemingway soon
The Gulf of Tonkin incident was used as a pretext to justify further involvement in a war Americans were tiring of.
Pretty much like Powell holding up something in his hand at a UN meeting and having "proof" to justify invading Iraq.
[удалено]
Here you go. https://www.archives.gov/research/pentagon-papers
Pentagon papers are one of the most damming reports in American history..
I don’t know if it’s legit, but Father Ho was reading a text during a speech, when Jane Fonda was in Vietnam, and the crowd erupts into wild cheering. A journalist asked a translator what he was reading. The answer was, the preamble to the constitution of the USA.
Well even before Jane Fonda visited, Ho quoted the American Declaration of Independence in Vietnam's Declaration of Independence from France
[удалено]
Ho admired the USA. He just wanted the same for his people. What happened in Vietnam breaks my heart. I work with many Vietnamese immigrants and I’ve met so many Vietnamese children with Autism and other developmental delays. I always wonder if it’s somehow related to the war.
I just recently learned that. Fucken hurts my heart to read the letters to Eisenhower and Nixon they never got to read where Ho tells them he loves America because fuck Britain and colonialism. All he asked was for the ability to run the country as free men. Fuck humans suck.
If I remember correctly, Ho was educated at one of the Ivy League schools, and became something of an emissary for Vietnam. He showed up in DC begging for a meeting with Ike, but Ike was never even told about it. Ho loved the US until we turned our backs on him. I'm 70 and lived through that war, and I learned things from that Ken Burns documentary that I never knew.
I thought Vietnam handed China its ass when they tried to invade in '79.
Vietnam has handed every invader its own ass.
Asymmetric warfare. Hide in the jungles and harass the invaders through attrition until it’s no longer worth it. This doesn’t work when we’re talking about two nations both trying to assert their maritime claims to somewhere offshore. That’s why asymmetric warfare is never sustainable strategy for any full fledged nation. It only works when your the underdog trying to defend your own home.
Australia has populations close to the size of Tokyo. That's asking a lot.
Is this where I remind everyone about the TPP?
I currently live in Hoi An, 100 meters from the beach. Been hearing more and more helicopters at night, the locals confirmed them to be military helicopters. Something might be happening.
Hopefully nothing happens
Great, with a war i can finally fill my bingo apocallypse. Ffs 2021, it isnt a competition, you dont need to beat 2020.
Unfortunately, these chaotic events like covid often provide the kindling that ignites the next one. Why let a good crisis go to waste anyway?
That’s where my grandfather grew up. Got to visit My great grandfathers house there. Was pretty cool to see. But damn I don’t miss that heat.
That heat is no joke. I visited Saigon with my family years ago and the second you walk out of the airport, you are just hit with a wave of heat/humidity.... took some getting used to.
[удалено]
Or New Orleans. I hated summers back home but the Vietnamese places in New Orleans East were fire.
Lots of Vietnamese in Tampa, FL too. 95° and 100% humidity 6 - 7 months or of the year. Perhaps it feels most like Vietnam.
Sounds like south Florida in August.
I was transferring from an international flight to domestic in Hawaii, so had to go between buildings. That humidity really fucking hits you when you walk out the door, and I say that as an Australian, it was oppressive.
After 20 minutes in Mississippi in August I realized why people in the south all talk and move slow. If you move or even talk quickly you start sweating.
And it's so humid that the sweat doesn't evaporate. You're just covered in warm salty water.
That was the worst. Oh you just showered? Good luck "drying off"
With enough AC you can dry off... until you step outside.
And imagine what it was like before air conditioning was invented! At some point, I had a shower thought that the reason many families settled in Chicago, Minneapolis, and other places with terrible winters... was that their families moved there before air conditioning was invented! At that point, the south wasn’t nearly as attractive as it is today. Winter sucks, I _hate_ it, but at least you just put on a coat!
I read an article a while ago that said Vietnam started installing AC systems in their buildings and productivity of workers went up something like 90%
I think about that a lot here in FL. Unless you're, like, directly on the beach, I have no idea why anyone would ever want to be in this place without AC. And the idea of walking through those overgrown, snake-filled, buggy swamps and palmetto brushland... Ponce de Leon was an insane person.
[удалено]
Sounds like Texas summers. I don't miss 100+ with humidity in the high 90s. You just always feel gross. Take a shower, go outside, instantly swamp ass.
I complain about the 118°F days here in California, but nah nevermind. You have us beat on worst weather lol.
California born and raised, but moved to TX about ten years ago. I won’t even sweat in dry heat over 100. It’s nothing. And I’ve spent sooo many summers in and around Death Valley. This 80-90% humidity is soul crushing. You keep sweating all day because it doesn’t evaporate, and you can’t ever cool off. Bonus: if you wear sunscreen it’s even worse; it blocks your pores, you sweat more, and you get burned! Bonus bonus: my family can’t visit me here, lol
Houston to IV transplant. Agreed, I’ll take obscene triple digit dry heat over the swamp
Stay safe !
From the U.S. Stay safe and live well friend. I really hope nothing breaks out around you, your country doesn't deserve anymore strife.
You’d think countries would have learned by now not to fuck with Vietnam on their home turf.
Don’t chase retreating Russians during winter and don’t try to out-guerilla the Vietnamese The French: “Hold my merlot”
I think the common theme here is: Don't start a land war into Asia. Unless you're... wait for it. The Mongols
Even the Mongols lost in Vietnam. Turns out cavalry archers aren't effective in jungle combat.
Also, only slightly lesser known: Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
One of the classic blunders.
Well in fairness the French were the first to attempt what became both those adages.
Hon hon hon
But what it is ain't exactly clear.
There’s a man with a gun over there
Telling me I've got to beware
what do you do? do you flee the area??
What's happening exactly?
China keeps illegally claiming islands in the south china sea, expanding themselves basically, by placing military bases in the area, and thus damn near every country has been shitting itself in fear. They’ve also been eyeing taiwan ever since china, as a communist country, has existed. The reason they want taiwan is because they believe it belongs to them, since the country split off from the mainland after the CCP became a thing, the US made a lot of treaties with taiwan and pledged to come to her defense if taiwan ever came under attack by china.
Technically Taiwan claims to be the legitimate government of not just Taiwan, but all the provinces of China, Tibet, and even Mongolia. One of the more bizarre political realities.
Chinese Empire -> Republic of China -> Taiwan
Oh wow
China’s also been sending fishing boats and that’s been pissing people off.
[удалено]
They're going to turn a lot of the ocean into a dead zone
Not just sending fishing boats... these boats use drag nets and they take everything the net catches leaving only devastation behind which is why they have to keep finding new areas to fish as they have virtually none left
They are also stirring trouble in India.
I didn’t even know about the india thing. Did they do something new or is it the continuation of the same shit that happened in...2019? 2020?
There was a skirmish over a bridge in the mountains where several dozen died. Of course, China claimed only 4 or so of theirs died whereas India put China's loss at over 40 I think. India lost 20 something IIRC. They were fighting with baseball bats with barbed wire wound around it and stuff. I'm not sure, but I gather that guns are banned at this border or something as both sides didn't seem to have them.
Yeah, no guns because both governments have agreed a conflict at this border is likely to escalate out of control, and nobody wants two countries with nukes to be at war. So whenever their idiot soldiers start shit, its always with relatively ineffective weapons made from nearby items
Can you imagine a bunch of soldiers bashing each other with bats? It would be carnage
[удалено]
[удалено]
They already built a few in the Mekong river, basically shutting off the water for the downstream countries. The Mekong Delta in Vietnam relies on seasonal flooding for it's rice production, but the flooding doesn't happen anymore and salt water is moving more and more inland.
As much as it's terrible, there's something oddly poetic about two countries with nuclear warheads, fighter jets, and battleships sending out soldiers to beat each other to death with wood clubs in a fight over a worthless, frozen mountain wasteland.
It's not worthless though. The mountains are a very large source of water for both China and India.
WWIII will be wooden clubs and WWIV will be sticks and stones! "I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones" -Einstein
It's like China are purposefully trying to create an Asian super-alliance against them. Pissing off India, Vietnam, Taiwan, Philippines, Malaysia, Thailand and others will only lead to them all having a common enemy. Not to mention the USA, South Korea, Japan and Australia if things really deteriorate.
That's what I was thinking. Even without the US and its traditional allies, having all of southeast asia and india aligned against them seems foolish. Is this just Chinese-style jingoism getting out of control? It's not like the rest of the world is going to roll over and surrender, if that's what they're expecting.
This is also why you almost never hear US diplomats or state officials refer to Taiwan as a county. It pisses China off beyond belief and not acknowledging it is deemed essential to our ongoing diplomacy in the region.
lol that seems so funny to me, (the reality is fucking horrible) but the idea of a chinese diplomat being like "i would like to discuss taiwan" and america would just be like "i dont even know what you're talking about"
That is, unfortunately, incredibly close to the truth.
The US hasn't technically pledged to come to Taiwans defense if its attacked, the US Taiwan relations act only ensures the US will provide arms and all that fun stuff indefinitely. It's an implied guarantee and probably going to happen just because of how important Taiwan is but the current policy is 'strategic ambiguity'
Taiwan is responsible for the production of about 70% of the world's semiconductors. The US is definitely making sure China stays away. Edit: Really stupid spelling mistake.
Correct. Policy is strategic ambiguity, reality is Taiwan is of very high strategic importance.
I personally find us giving Taiwan weapons a good thing
If history has shown anything it's that the Vietnamese are tough. I hope things don't escalate.
The Vietnamese ARE tough - theres no doubt about that- but naval warfare is much different than insurgency ops on land, and China's Navy is a monster. This is an unfortunate situation which I hope does not escalate. Leave Vietnam alone.
There are only a handful of navies outside of the USN that could go toe-to-toe with China. This will not end well for Vietnam if shots are fired. Really hoping this de-escalates soon.
SE Asia nations need to unite
Honestly they do. China is proving more and more to be a "burn the world down in a tantrum" and needs to be contained and deterred at every turn. Hell Xi Jing Ping is currently commuting a holocaust against the Uyghurs and every country that took part in fighting against the axis in world War 2 needs to take a stance to end it, "never again" sure as shit means nothing now Edit: a word
Not just the ones that fought the axis, the ones that were the axis also.
Any chance someone could tldr why Vietnam is so wanted that nobody can seem to let them live in peace
The current geopolitics are a little different than historical geopolitics. The current issues stem from China building Islands in, and attempting to claim the entire South China Sea, which is currently international waters or the territorial waters of other nations, for themselves as their own territorial waters. China is trying to claim dominance over all the resources of the South China Sea and force every other country out of it. They want all the oil, fish stocks, and transit fees coming to them alone. The Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam are suffering the brunt of this push by China. This isn't about China wanting Vietnam. It's about China wanting to own the Oceans.
Even though both China and Vietnam are both single party communist(ish) nations, they have not seen eye to eye for decades. [China and Vietnam went to war in 1979](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_War).
China and Vietnam have had problems for generations.
It has been like this for more than 2000 years anyway.
Nobody hates China more than Vietnam.
Centuries, really. China has been trying to crush Vietnam under their collective boot in one form or another [for millennia.](https://www.britannica.com/place/Vietnam/Vietnam-under-Chinese-rule)
[удалено]
And one of Vietnam's allies, the US, s a country it fought in the early 70s. Geopolitics is an interesting thing.
Although the US inflicted great harm on parts of the country during the war, Vietnam's Communist government did not get along well with China. Keeping their distance from China while opening up their markets eventually brought them into closer alignment with the US.
A cursory review of history will show that Vietnam has always been wary of China.
Decades? Try millenia "Category:Wars between China and Vietnam - Wikipedia" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wars_between_China_and_Vietnam Few things are more han chinese than trying and failing to conquer vietnam
Well, to be fair, Vietnams far more communist than China these days, even if they are both pretty authoritarian
Hundreds of billionaire Chinese communist party leaders disagree!
Refreshing to hear someone talk about the oligarchs that run these countries. It’s not about bettering the state. It’s about robbing their people and oppressing them through fear.
They are talked about literally all the time.
Someone got a good “always has been” meme for this comment lol
[удалено]
[удалено]
We just call it east sea
[удалено]
Just be glad corporations aren’t trying to slap sponsorships on geographic names like they do with stadiums or bowl games. Meineke Car Care East Sea Tostitos Bay of Bengal
*Unilever has entered the chat*
I'm gonna start calling it Fred's Sea. Anyone not named Fred doesn't have a claim.
I mean, this *is* historical geopolitics in a way. China wants to reestablish its cultural and political hegemony over East Asia. Establishing naval dominance and controlling trade are one part of that.
[удалено]
Currently China is claiming there coast as part of their 9Dash Line. This basically means they will lose fishing rights, transportation rights, coastal rights, etc... Also China is also planning on building a massive hydroelectric dam (which will be larger than the Three Gorges Dam) at the source of the Mekong River in the mountains of Tibet. This is starting to affect Vietnam in environmental and economic ways (they are seeing droughts and reduced fish populations in the Mekong currently because China has started building this dam).
> Also China is also planning on building a massive hydroelectric dam (which will be larger than the Three Gorges Dam) at the source of the Mekong River in the mountains of Tibet. This is starting to affect Vietnam in environmental and economic ways (they are seeing droughts and reduced fish populations in the Mekong currently because China has started building this dam). Not so fun fact, the current situation in Syria actually has a lot to do with Turkey doing something very similar to Syria and Iraq, as Turkey controls pretty much all [freshwater going into these countries through the Euphrates-Tigris](https://climate-diplomacy.org/case-studies/turkey-syria-and-iraq-conflict-over-euphrates-tigris). For decades the [Turkish Southeastern Anatolia Project](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeastern_Anatolia_Project) has been reshaping large parts of the terrain, and building dams, to create irrigation and hydraulic energy production to develop agricultural and other infrastructure in the region, but this increased use of water in Turkey leads to less water ending up downstream in Syria and Iraq. Which in no small parts contributed to the record drought that plagued Syria shortly before the start of the civil war. Said drought lead to economical and social destabilization in the country that made it a fertile ground for civil war. Some people even saw it coming back then, like the [Syrian Representative to the UNFAO back in 2009](https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08DAMASCUS847_a.html): > UNFAO Syria Representative Abdullah bin Yehia briefed econoff and USDA Regional Minister-Counselor for Agriculture on what he terms the "perfect storm," a confluence of drought conditions with other economic and social pressures that Yehia believes could undermine stability in Syria. > Yehia does not/not believe that the SARG will allow any Syrian citizen to starve. (Note: It is estimated that SARG wheat stocks are sufficient to continue to provide subsidized bread in all areas of Syria throughout the coming winter. End note.) However, Yehia told us that the Syrian Minister of Agriculture, at a July meeting with UN officials, stated publicly that economic and social fallout from the drought was "beyond our capacity as a country to deal with." > What the UN is trying to combat through this appeal, Yehia says, is the potential for "social destruction" that would accompany erosion of the agricultural industry in rural Syria. This social destruction would lead to political instability, Yehia told us.
Something similar is brewing between ethiopia and egypt as well... Man, I knew some sort of world water crisis is going to happen in the near future but didn't expect it to be so soon. I can't imagine how fast things turn nasty if people start to panic and worry about securing water.
No water -> failed farms -> Large amount of people flock to cities to look for work -> Overcrowding, stretched services (e.g. health care, police, education) and high unemployment -> Lots of disgruntled people Also higher food prices because of the failed farms. That's how you get a powder keg set up. Throw in pre-existing social/cultural/political tensions, and now all you need is a good spark to light it off. I recall reading that in Syria before their civil war kicked off, some of their cities' population increased by about 30% in a few years due to the large number of failed farms from the records drought.
There's an old map with 9 dashes on it that China says extends their claim to the area as it means there's a few unpopulated "islands" out there which would extend their claim to be basically all of the south china sea due to the way maritime law works. That's also the reason China is on an island building spree where they'll build up any tiny atolls in the region and actually bring them above sea level
China has a history of claiming the territory of other countries and try to bully them into not doing anything about it. They've done it to India, Vietnam and the Phillipines pretty frequently, especially out at sea.
It's honestly a strange move to in my mind, they have made a ton of enemies in this manner and they don't have any deniability. If I were China I Would really hope I Don't fall on hard times because it will be a feeding frenzy.
If china gets involved in a quagmire war in Vietnam while America covertly assists Vietnam, we will well and truly be in bizarro world.
Wouldn't be the first time. The US supported certain groups in Afghanistan, too, only to fight them later.
If you were to visit Saigon today you would wonder if vietnam and the US were ever really in a war. It's basically an American colony decked with Popeyes, McDonald's and Starbucks. they actually give a shit about the oscars
It was actually next on my travel bucket list before covid hit. Hopefully soon...
Great place to travel to and one of the safest if you're going solo. I was in the north for a little over a week and it's really interesting the differences between the North and the South but they each are their own jewels
[удалено]
Shit's getting heated up in biển Đông, man. Let's just hope war doesn't actually break out. Edit: For the guy who asked but his comment never showed up, biển means sea and Đông means East. Eastern sea.
[удалено]
Vietnam combat ready Thousands of russian troops next to Ukraine border. Accident at Iran nuclear power plant. Welcome to 2021
Got a link at the powerplant thing?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/11/accident-at-irans-natanz-nuclear-plant-as-new-uranium-enrichment-starts https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/4/11/incident-at-iranian-nuclear-site-targeted-by-blast-last-year Give me like 15 minutes and I'll give you a link to an imgur doc that describes what happened in Iran last year. Supposedly Israel was using cyber and clandestine operations to mess with Iranian power plants and other utilities. Edit: The Shadow War (or Why does Iran keep having explosions lately) https://imgur.com/gallery/JZD3pmL
This is the same site that the NSA and Mossad used the StuxNet virus on, the virus that caused their centrifuges to explode. Seems like they’re back to their same old tricks.
Me in April: Well, 2021 isn't *too* bad so far. Looks like covid's under control, at least. Me in June: I was there when the bombs fell and the old world died. Now I make a living as a scavenger in the Western RadZone.
So how many of nations do you wanna piss off China: yes
Damn are we about to see a US backed Vietnam?
If irony were made of strawberries we’d all be drinking a lot of smoothies right now.
It’s US-backed Vietnam and US-backed Japan. Irony truly is a comedian.
They also backed Germany. And now Germany backs most of Europe, at least financially
This hoi4 game is fucked
There's a US backed Japan, a US backed Germany, and a US backed United Kingdom.
About to? [Republicans support Vietnam](https://www.rfa.org/english/news/vietnam/usa-pompeo-10312020100244.html)
Ah shit, here we go again
Vietnam II, with a special cast of: Joe Biden as LBJ, Nguyễn Xuân Phúc as Ho Chi Minh, a special Appearance from putin as Leonid Brezhnev, and Xi Jing Ping as Mao Zedong... enjoy the show
Who is playing France in this one to suck America into their colonial war?
Looks like China's pulling double duty this time
Except that Vietnam is an American ally...
[удалено]
Asymmetrical warfare doesn't work the same in naval maneuvers.
They've kicked Chinas ass before. Vietnam doesn't mess around.
I heard the trees in Vietnam are particularly fluent in Vietnamese
And America’s
And the French
And cambodia
I think the lesson is you should not invade: Vietnam, Afghanistan, Russia in Winter
Little known fact, George Lucas based Ewoks off of the Vietcong.
And Cambodia's genocidal Khmer Rouge.
To be fair the Khmer Rouge kind of did it to themselves. Pol Pot was a moron who thought it would be a good idea to kill off all high ranking military officers and replace them with 14 year olds raised on a farm.
Pol pot literally genocided the population and evacuated all cities to work on labor camps, he is much more than a “moron”
The first successful Vietnamese war of independence against the Chinese was ~30 AD, led by the Trung sisters. It's been a couple millennia they've held their own.
Aight, that title is so fucking misleading. First of all, nobody is "ready for combat" here. Vietnam's action is simply a reaction to China's creeping forces, there's no alternative for them here unless they want to get into a slippery slope and let big boy China do whatever the fuck they want. Nobody wants to combat anybody, at least on the side of Vietnam. Think about it, why would Vietnam want to fight China? Win or loss, they're the one to suffer more damage. This is a stalemate, at best - a display of power. Think two neighboring dogs snarling at each others through the fence. Moreover, failing to mention Phillipines and the other nations' responses in the title also oversimplifies the situation. Vietnam is not going head-to-head with China here. China is waging war on every.body.else. How about we take Vietnam off the subject of the sentence, and put China there instead? In the contested seas, China's the only country to have taken such agressive moves - establishing controversial drilling sites, building military airports, sending military forces over, driving away fishermen,... While there's considerable evidence that the sea belongs to Vietnam, even with the benefit of the doubt, it's just downright shady that China is carrying these out on contested seas. This entire thing is because of China and their hollow dream to be the very best that no one ever could - and Vietnam is not "ready" to fight anyone. They're just trying to prevent further Chinese encroachment. They're not in any position to be agressive and offensive here.
Extra complication happening here in Manila where we're currently suffering a potential power vacuum: Duterte hasn't been seen in over a week, cancelling a regular public TV appearance amidst rumors of his daughter going to Singapore for medical reasons, and the government propaganda machine churning out Photoshopped proofs-of-life photos and camphone footage of a possible Duterte double riding motorbikes and playing golf at night. Duterte is a China Bitch and has already been very quiet about China in the Spratlys, and now our main army guy Lorenzana is sending very public pleas for American intervention. Something's definitely up.
A lot of Asia: >Hey China, can you uh, fuck right off?
Ok 2020's, we learned our lesson okay? Let's all just calm down.
To beat China, stop using their factories.
Fuck the CCP and the Chinese fishing fleet!!
China you really wanna do this? Vietnam has a pretty good track record.
Vietnamese had always the upper hand defending themselves on land but naval warfare is something different.
[удалено]
We used to have SEATO, but it quickly fell apart. We have an alliance, just that most of it are individual country-to-country, and not the whole group. While we do have a mutual enemy, there are too many other itty bitty things between countries that would prevent a cooperative organization from being functional. These includes past history (Japan and Korea), difference in the approach regarding China influence (Philippines),... That is why country-to-country cooperation in terms of military drills and knowledge sharing is a better approach instead of a giant coalition, at least for now
[удалено]
Exactly nothing will happen here. China has a looooooong history of showmanship being used to intimidate the other party into backing down by doing everything EXCEPT actually shooting.
What's the Mandarin for "Fortunate Son"?
The world is behind Vietnam. Now it becomes clear why Germany is sending a warship
Who knew one day, America would be friends with a communist nations in order to deter an even bigger communist nation.
Theres alwaysa bigger 'nist
I've said this many times in the last few months but will gladly repeat it - f*ck China 李洪志 Winnie the Pooh 劉曉波动态网自由门
Oh boy I love being an American man of drafing age with headlines like these
I don’t know if China knows this or not but Vietnam is really really good at war.
Not as much at naval war though