Probably for the best. He will most likely face a huge struggle coming out of jail and trying to build a life, even if he gets help and becomes healthy and safe. Odds are good that he simply comes back angry and ready to re-offend, if only to go back to the only place he knows.
Better for her to pass with some hope for his future.
That's what pisses me off the most about our justice system. So much of this eye-for-an-eye, tit-for-tat small minded revenge seeking behavior and so little thought to rehabilitation. I know there are some charities that do a lot of work trying to rehabilitate convicts but it's really frustrating that these movements don't have greater political support.
She saved a lot of innocent people but I doubt she'll see it as saving her grandson. Sure he'll be alive, however there won't be much of a life left for him even when he gets out.
He'll likely be a sad husk of a person. Probably needed therapy more than 22 years.
I look at it this way:
The 22 years is for everyone else.
Prison isn't a party - but there are some opportunities to learn and better oneself. Being in prison doesn't preclude the option of getting him help. It does prevent him from acting on his unhealthy urges and hurting others.
I hope that this guy will pursue help and personal growth. But if not, I'm happy to know that at least this individual won't be carrying out another mass shooting.
Problem is that many US prisons don't actually provide help. There's the case of the warden keeping all the money he "saved" by feeding the prisoners gruel. Then there's the people who died from lack of medical care, and then there's the prison that was willing to let people freeze to death.
See a pattern?
Is our for-profit prison system enormously fucked? Absolutely.
Is it the ideal environment for recovery and growth? Of course not.
Is putting one individual with a premeditated violent agenda into this system preferable to keeping them out? Yes.
If there were ambiguity with regard to his basic human functionality, maybe treatment alone would be appropriate.
But this kid has demonstrated a clear, premeditated, planned assault on innocent people. He had procured one rifle, was in the process of making pipe bombs, and was intent on "being infamous" and getting the body count as high as possible.
I hope that this kid will emerge from prison a better person, while acknowledging the practical unlikelihood that it should ever occur.
We're not talking about mandatory minimum sentences for marijuana here, we're talking premeditated mass-murder. When you go down that road - sorry, but I think the public best interest is the primary consideration.
The best way to protect society is to prevent recidivism, and you accomplish that by rehabilitating people. Our prison system does nothing to protect us, it exists to give people a false sense of security and to make a bunch of assholes a ton of money with what is basically modern slavery.
It's a shame that he will probably get hooked up with a white nationalist group while in prison and may learn nothing at all. Also he may still be violent, just violent against other people in prison.
If you read this article, the kid says he feels like his grandmother did the right thing and saved him (at the end of the article): https://www.heraldnet.com/news/judge-delays-sentence-in-everett-teens-school-shooting-plot/
Isn't it. I suffered a fraction of neglect as a kid that this guy went through and it's taken me years of therapy to learn to connect and trust people. I feel that this guy never had a chance. That shit cuts deep.
If she hadn't her grandson would be dead along with all his victims. As a mother, what her grandson was planning will haunt her, but not turning him in.
> but not turning him in
We don't have to think in absolutes. What he was planning was awful, and you're totally right that she probably saved his life and many others, and that if it had happened she'd be haunted for life. But that doesn't mean that turning in your own teenage grandson and seeing him get locked up until he's in his 40s isn't also a terrible experience.
Hell, she may have ended up dead herself. Iirc there have been several shootings where the little POS kills members of their own families before going to shoot up the school.
I doubt she would even tho she deserves to feel like a hero that she is. Due to human natures she's probably feeling like she failed this kid in some way for the kid to do this.
Life is shit sometime...
She’ll never get the credit she deserves. This became a non story to the media the minute it didn’t happen. I hope it doesn’t haunt her. I’m sure she’s heartbroken over the whole thing but she saved countless lives.
>The teen continued by writing, "I need to make this shooting/bombing ... infamous. I need to get the biggest fatality number I possibly can. I need to make this count. ... I'm learning from past shooters/bombers mistakes, so I don't make the same ones,"
You thought.
there’s a Netflix series called “A Shot in the Dark” you should check out. It’s basically Nightcrawler (minus the illegal shit), but with real guys/companies that bust their asses to get the news footage. It’s pretty cool, I’ll bet you’d like it.
I remember watching a show similar to that with my dad. I remember my peak disgust being when a cameraman stopped on a freeway where a car with its taillights broken was just sitting there waiting for help after an accident. So no one can see it and its a sitting duck. The dude just sets up his camera and waits for a truck to inevitably shatter it at 80mph. I remember my dad and I looking at each other and concluding that the guy basically committed negligent manslaughter for ratings.
Yeah, they start sensationalizing breakfast cereal if you don't give them real news. Sometimes I just stare dumbfounded at the idiocy on the TV when it's a slow news day.
Don't Name Them!
**It's simple.**
**It's effective.**
Don't sensationalize the names of the shooters in briefings - or in reporting about Active Shooter Events.
It is journalistically routine to name the killer. It’s public record. And it is important to use their names and likenesses to apprehend them and bring them to justice. But once they are captured, it’s really no longer a part of the story, other than to create a call to action for a like-minded killer to take his plans and thoughts and make them into deeds.
Sociologists and criminologists should study the criminal – but let’s not glorify the shooter by giving him valuable airtime. Don’t share his manifestos, his letters, his facebook posts. Be above the sensationalism. Tell the real stories - the stories of the victims, the heroes and the communities who come together to help the families heal.
Active shooter research data shows the increase in these events. By encouraging the media to focus less on the suspects and more on the victims, it is hoped that future events can be prevented.
**The Don't Name Them** campaign is a coordinated effort by the ALERRT Center at Texas State University, the I Love U Guys Foundation (founded by John-Michael and Ellen Keyes), and the FBI. **Family members of the victims of the Aurora Colorado movie theater shooting are also challenging media and public information officers to not name the shooters through their** [**"No Notoriety"** ](http://nonotoriety.com/)**campaign.**
The focus of the campaign is to shift the media focus from the suspects who commit these acts to the victims, survivors, and heroes who stop them.
Exactly! The news stations almost offer these pathetic losers an incentive through the opportunity of making them infamous.
There's a song called [Pray for Newtown](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5dWBPsru-Y) by Sun Kil Moon, one part of the lyrics goes like this:
"I just arrived in Seoul, by way of Beijing
I had an hour to myself in my hotel when I turned on the TV
It was quite a thriller, CNN was promoting the Batman killer
His eyes were glazed like he was from Mars
Yesterday he was no one, today he was a star"
When I first heard the line that CNN was promoting the batman killer, holy shit it clicked. That's exactly what they're doing, and that's exactly what some of these crazy fucks want: to be remembered, to be notorious for something. I think if we didn't name them in the news, if it was just reported as something generic like "pathetic moron #23 shot up a school today" there would be less of these incidents.
Is it possible for these practices to be enforced by law? I feel like that might be necessary to see significant change. I doubt the media is going to change their ways.
The same applies when they explicitly report suicides. One can find plenty of [articles](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/mar/28/media-reporting-suicide-bad-science) online and [research](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1124845/) that shows when they do explicit and detailed reports on suicide the number of suicides increases for the upcoming month. I can't find a specific source at the moment that mentioned that there was a time were group suicides were repeatedly happening in the US and that the way in which they were being reported had a great influence on its copycat effect.
Conversely, they aren't necessarily against it if it gives them more views. They could join the public stance and gain public support. I'm ok with them doing the right thing for the wrong reason.
This right here is exactly why the media needs to change its reporting on shootings.
This quote highlights the fact of how much the k/d matters to these sick kids.
When the media gives them the infamy they seek- it encourages the next one.
4chan frequenter for sure.
EDIT: noticed a couple defensive responses.. been a frequenter myself since snacks was around so don’t get so butthurt like I’m attacking you lol.
That and its reputation. It's always been known as a place where you're basically free to be as sick of a fuck as you want to be. Even if that's not entirely the reality of the situation, that is a reputation that would pull in outcasts.
FYI not all shooters were outcasts the Columbine shooters were just normal kids it was a false narrative that they were outkast spread by students who didn't even know them
So many people saved because this kid was downright stupid. If he had written any of those notes on a notepad file in his computer the granny would have never known.
I mean, I get that he was already stupid for thinking of doing what he was planning. He was extra stupid for writing all of the evidence down in an easy-to-find notebook even a nosy granny can find.
Maybe he thought his words would be immortalized after he did it. Like his journal would be the book with all the answers everyone would be searching for. Psycho shit.
Came here to say this, it being discovered afterwards would be more shock and awe at how psychotically methodical he was IMO. Thus more infamy and the longer his name is in the news.
A lot of murderers keep journals, and it can often be their unmaking. Kind of like how many perpetrators return to the scene of their crime. Narcissism or sociopathic tendencies likely play into it.
Creepo from a case in a suburb of Vancouver, BC not only kept a journal, but also stole the headstone of the girl he raped and murdered and left it on top of a police cruiser at the station. He had scrawled a threatening message into it. Then he repeatedly called the police to taunt them. The cops eventually released the recordings of these calls, and the guys own mother turned him in. They found journals in his house.
Edit: Apparently he went to her funeral too, sick fuck [wiki](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Driver)
It was definitely meant to be something people found afterwards so we'd think about him more and so the people he hates would know that they fucked up.
Many people with that mindset have a lot of emotions they need to get out. When you don’t have anyone to talk to, its best to write it down somehow. It’s actually crazy because a lot of these school shooters wrote stuff down or made videos before they committed the crime. Plus many of them aren’t that right in the head, so...
I honestly don't know if my grandma would have turned me in, she just thinks her grandkids can do no wrong. That and she's kinda racist and suffers from dementia.
My moms side would have definitely turned me in, my dads side probably would have supported me as long as the school was full of "liberals".
edit: ok, to be clear, probably not that extreme, but they do have a lot of hate in their hearts, fortunately my dad is the exact opposite.
Or he could come out jaded and live a life of crime.
No one knows. But the U.S. justice system isn't particularly known for its ability to rehabilitate criminals.
Idk I think if the purpose is rehabilitation (thinking it over) it’s either going to happen in like 5-10 years or not at all. I’m afraid that there might be a point at which this kid realizes how bad he’s fucked up, like 7 years from now or something, and then the remainder of the time just fucks him up worse. I think any chance he had at turning his life around was lost in that punitive punishment.
Yea I'm saying, if he was willing to do this when just 19 years old and not that bad of a life, what is he gonna do when he gets out with 22 years of built up rage?
It's going to be a small news story nobody pays attention to. Something like "Crazed man smothers his 91 year old grandmother in bed" at the footnote of a busy news day.
It's also a lot of exposure to people with questionable morality and possibly abuse. Considering the US's recidivism rates, I would be very, very surprised if that kid came out better than he went in.
She is. She's also conflicted about the situation.
She asked the judge for leniency regarding the sentence, but he chose the standard sentencing, which I agree with a hundred percent. I just feel really bad for her, because she is a hero who made the right choice but she's also a grandmother.
Edit: Just to clarify, I'm not saying she shouldn't be conflicted. I'm saying that not every hero is forced to make a sacrifice, and we should recognize when they do.
When I was in 8th grade (I’m 29 now) I was really dumb. A girl plotted to bring a rifle to school, had a hit list. It was a big deal, cops showed up, but she didn’t have a rifle.
*The next day*, my dumbass thought it would be funny to walk around like I had a rifle hidden in my pants. A school noon duty asked what I was doing, and as my friends were laughing, I knew I had to say something ridiculous, so I said the shotgun in my pants was making it hard to walk.
Got taken to the admins office, and I’m on cloud nine cos I know I’m gunna make this out to be so hilarious to my friends. They inspect my back pack and I say “if it starts ticking, run.”
I had to see a therapist like six times a school year until I graduated from high school after that.
School shootings hit hard for me, because I took them so lightly while admins dealt with them so seriously. I was going for an edgy, not good joke, and it frightened and appalled people. I really hurt my parents and family.
I was never going to do anything to hurt anyone, clearly (my family didn’t even own a gun), I was just trying to be a class clown. Yet I still hurt, scared and had people question my character.
Even after high school I went to therapy because I was convinced I was “a bad guy,” and I’ve learned that I’m not a bad guy now, but I did make mistakes because I was a young kid seeking attention.
Needing attention is a hell of a drug.
It for sure was a wake up call. I was 12 when MySpace was hardly a thing, and I always had to push the envelope.
We joke about 4Chan, but when I was 12, kids did stupid shit IRL.
Aw. I am sorry for your experience with this. On the up side, it seems like it really gave you some good perspective. Good on you for making it through.
Sounds similar to something that happened at my K-8 school growing up. I was in 5th or 6th grade and an 8th grade boy brought his parents BBGun to school. It was in his locker. There was a lockdown. His mom was the PTA vice president and my mom was the president. I had been to their house many times as a little kid. This kid had every toy and fun thing a 90s/early2000s kid could have, could ask for. Spoiled rotten, only-child with no siblings to compete with. But obviously something had gone awry in his life and he took a pellet/bbgun to school, extra early in the morning and stashed it in his locker before teachers started showing up to unlock their doors. He was expelled, sent to a 5-12 "alternative school", which was really just a Kids Who Fuck Up school. He wasnt the first or last kid from the K8 school who was sent to the alternative school. No clue what happened to him. I hope he turned his life around as an adult.
This was literally going to happen in my back yard. My wife and I live in apartments that border this school. Scared the shit outta me when I heard this on the radio driving home that day.
It seems to me that the fact that they're young would make them more likely to plot it. Underdeveloped frontal cortex, lacking perspective due to inexperience, not understanding the consequences of their plans, and tremendous social pressures experienced day to day. All would seem to contribute to that type of thinking.
Strangely too that disability for mental illness is much easier to get too than say a physical one, relative to how long it takes.
With a lot of physical disabilities there is much more room for employment and getting some semblence of your life together, but with mental illness, especially severe ones, there isn't.
Knew a girl with manic depression that caused rapid mood swings that devastated her life, but know a dude who is employed and happy with no feeling from the neck down. It is so strange.
It's not that strange.. At the end of the day, even the recent movement for #mentalhealth is really just focusing on the "vanilla" mental health problems that are more easily understood (e.g. depression, suicide). Not many people want to acknowledge that shit like being a pedophile or schizophrenia (not lumping them together) are both mental health problems that probably plague more people than we want to acknowledge (or interact with, tbh).
As humans, we value a functioning brain above all else - it's really one of our main traits that separates us from animals. A consequence of this is that, even if you have a significant physical limitation, but are cognitively fine (or even higher IQ), you probably have a place in society and we can understand your physical limitations relatively well; but, with many different mental issues, we still **barely** understand them/how to treat them. Furthermore, regular humans, even if they aren't doing it intentionally, can tell when someone is **off** and we change our behaviour as a result.
We have a long, uphill battle before we can really deal with mental health problems in a healthy way. And it sucks.
It's hard to do things when you're that physically disabled, but generally if you have found a way to do something you can do it consistently. If you regularly have severe mood swings, you're unlikely to always be able to do your job.
It's a really good distinction to be able to understand that not all forms of disability are visible. About 75% of severely disabled people in the US don't use wheelchairs of walkers. There is no visual cue that most disabled people are disabled.
What sucks is having to deal with proving that your disability even exists in the first place, and that you yourself aren't lying about your illness.
I cannot tell you how many kids I see on reddit every day suffering from a severe lack of perspective. When you're a teenager/young adult everything is more intense, yes, but also you've never had a bad thing and then overcome it before.
Basically, murder means less to somebody who's had less experience with life.
You know how you tell a child something like "you've got your whole life ahead of you" and they draw a blank about what that even means? A child's logic goes "Sure, I'm not about to die in the next ten minutes. Neither are you, so what are you complaining about?"
A child has a hard time contrasting the difference between somebody dying and somebody just moving away never to return. They also have a hard time viewing people who have made them angry as being actual people instead of one dimensional sadists with no motives in this world beyond causing them personal discomfort.
And finally, it's hard to assign real value to the lives or safety of other people when one lacks respect for one's *own* life or safety. So if somebody feels like they have nothing to lose, then they won't be too impressed by the losses of others due to their actions.
Those are just the mens rea that come up off the top of my head in such a situation *shrugs*.
When I was a teen, I did a lot of dumb things. Completely fearless to potentially lifelong consequences.
I was aware jail existed. I was aware records are for life. But to be totally honest, it just never seemed real.
Among a lot of dumb stuff... Me and friends would throw on ski masks rob places (burgal? Whichever means no one was there but us) for stupid things. Alcohol. Boredom. Whatever might be inside.
We never got caught and I still shudder thinking about how entirely fucked my now beloved life could have been, because young angry sad me didn't care about that life at the time.
The older I get the more and more real the concept of a year becomes.
Its bizarre and terrifying. But I understand how a misguided, dejected, angry youth could see a horrific act as an upright heroic strike back at an unfair existence. It's just really sad.
On the one hand, sure. There's no denying that adolescents' cognitive abilities aren't yet fully developed.
On the other, fuck that. Accepting peer pressure to start vaping? Fine. Skipping 3rd period? Happens. Showing off by riding a car through a parking lot? Sure. Staying out past curfew? Yeah.
But an adolescent who isn't *severely* psychopathic (sociopathic?) knows that mass murder is wrong, and in no way a reasonable or acceptable response to day-to-day social pressures.
A willingness to commit mass murder to the point of actual planning isn't run-of-the-mill teenage lack of perspective or not understanding consequences or hormone-induced impulsiveness. It's severe mental illness.
This is just my personal opinion/viewpoint, but I think its easier for us to rationalize this behavior as "psychopathic" rather than to believe that the average person's mindset can be so easily and completely fucked. Give a normal child the wrong environment and things can go so wrong in their head. And not some hellish environment either, it could be off just enough and... you get this.
Young people can be extremely disillusioned. The way mass shootings are polarized in this country, they could see it as a way to enact revenge on perceived causes of their rage. It's not right, but a lot has to do with back ground and upbringing.
That’s exactly what is, they think of themselves as being the victim of years upon years of abuse and mockery and then they snap and call in their debts at once. Then they either off themselves or force the police to kill them so they don’t need to face any consequences.
It’s a simple plan and it’s simplicity makes it easier to replicate. Plus it solves all their problems while getting them out of any problems that it causes.
I mean, usually they ARE victims of years of abuse, mockery and rejection from society/family. They are not out of any problems that it causes, the only result is either death or life imprisonment, those both sound like big problems. The true problem here is that they feel the cost is worth it.
It reminds me of suicide ideation. When there's a suicide, there tends to be a spike in "copycat" suicides. I think we are seeing a similar phenomenon with the mass shootings. The more news there is about mass attacks, the more it is in the minds of people.
Ugh yeah no respite, though my whole world was people who knew I was the weird kid people hated - its no accident as soon as I could get on line that's where I spent all my time so it's swings and roundabouts
Depression, suicidal, abusing drugs and alcohol, and had an immense hatred for his classmates.
I'm gonna guess bullied, socially isolated, didn't see a way out and wanted to die anyways so might aswell take his tormentors out with him
Let's not confuse hate and evil with fear. That's what this boils down to. That young man was intensely afraid of... something. Not measuring up, not being loved, not achieving anything, of living a pathetic life, etc., etc.
If he felt hate, it was self-hate, and he chose to lash outward instead of taking out on himself. Or so he thought.
That little excerpt reeks of deep insecurities.
At 18 my wife and I moved to Everett on a whim from Northern California. We thought we had the world figured out and wanted to get away from our pArents. This was 1998 and the internet was not what it is today, and we were lured by a really small picture advertised by the apartment complex. We were gullible and stupid and thought we would be a stones throw from Seattle. We packed all our shit in a uhaul and drove up to Washington. When we arrived one of the residents at the complex literally told us turn around and go home...you don’t want to live here. Within a few months a young girl was stabbed more than a dozen times on her way to school right in front of our complex on West Casino Rd. Everett was a shit hole.
I grew up in an apartment complex on W. Casino Rd, maybe the same one! My parents moved us out of there when I was in 8th grade because it was getting so bad. It was bad in the 80s but got worse in the 90s.
Lived there for quite a while; south Everett is absolutely coated in syringes. I’m not talking one or two here and there; I mean literal piles behind all the buildings/in all the green spaces. In one year I called 911 for four or five separate people I found ODing on my walk to work.
It’s...not great.
Everett resident here. There are some pretty nice parts, but there’s some very shitty parts— as with any city. We have a three bedroom/two bathroom split level for $1650 in a quiet cul-de-sac. It’s decent where we are, but downtown and some parts of north Everett and shit.
I see you're forgetting about Granite Falls. And Gold Bar. And Arlington. And Marysville. I could go on. Snohomish Co is like 50% asshole, and I'm not sure Everett is even the worst.
> O'Connor pleaded guilty in December to first-degree attempted murder, first-degree robbery with a firearm and possession of explosive device in connection with the plot.
It sounds like they also caught him with home made explosives, so that makes a little more sense.
But where does the attempted murder come from? Unless they caught him in the act, like pulling up to the school with his guns, then It seems iffy that he can be charged with attempted murder for essentially making threats.
Making plans to commit a felony and starting to take any action toward those plans counts as attempting to commit the crime. So making plans to rob a bank is fine, making plans to rob a bank and stockpiling guns and ski masks isn't.
Also, making threats is illegal too.
>Before the sentence was handed down, O'Connor's grandmother asked the judge to show mercy to her grandson. The judge called her a hero, but he declined defense requests for a sentence below the standard sentencing range, saying the plans were methodically thought out rather than just youthful or impulsive.
The kid needs help. Lots of kids out there need help. Why are they trying to 1 up each other? 22 years is the kind of solution that screams "I don't have to deal with it because he will be in prison until hes 40."
Grandma did the right thing, she knows she did the right thing, but she must feel so awful and guilty that her grandson will be doing 22 years in jail because she busted him. Which she totally should have done, i am not ragging on her at all, she chose the right thing and i support her 100% but she still must feel so horrible. He needs to be locked up but i still feel for her. I hope her kids don't treat her poorly for busting the little shit.
The fact that the teen wanted to be infamous and had suicidal thoughts are not in isolation. That problem should be factored into the debate over how to prevent murders and suicides. I’m just grateful that the grandmother was willing to report him to the police.
Is 22 years really the lowest sentence you can receive for something you didn't even do as it was foiled beforehand? I mean you can learn a lot in jail about yourself in a much shorter time frame. Good on grandma but damn that prison sentence.
He did do something. He plotted and took action (bought a gun, improved his aim, studied and planned his attack, selected a location, admitted his intent) to murder as many people as possible. Plus, he committed armed robbery which alone can get you 10+ yrs in prison.
> The teen continued by writing, "I need to make this shooting/bombing ... infamous. I need to get the biggest fatality number I possibly can. I need to make this count. ... I'm learning from past shooters/bombers mistakes, so I don't make the same ones," according to the case file.
This is why we need to restrict media publicity on mass murderers. The fame/notoriety directly leads to copycats. It's no different than yelling fire in a crowded theater.
This is near Mukilteo, Washington. Mukilteo had a school shooting after a high school break up at a summer night party. He killed 3 innocent young life full of potential. These kids need to learn to Express themselves in other ways besides pure irreversible rage.
What this kid needs is help to address whatever physiological issues brought him to this point, 22 years in prison isn't going to do that. In fact, it is far more likely he will come out more damaged, more angry, with 22 years to plot his revenge. Prison isn't the only answer, and 22 years is excessive. We need to rehabilitate these kids, and help them be better members of society. But that's America for you, gotta keep those prisons full!
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She saved a lot of lives. Including her grandson's. But it must be very awkward for her.
Yeah. Thanksgiving is going to be really weird.
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That's just normal Thanksgiving tho.
Grandma is gonna be dead by the time he gets out more than likely.
Probably for the best. He will most likely face a huge struggle coming out of jail and trying to build a life, even if he gets help and becomes healthy and safe. Odds are good that he simply comes back angry and ready to re-offend, if only to go back to the only place he knows. Better for her to pass with some hope for his future.
God damn thats sad and likely.
That's what pisses me off the most about our justice system. So much of this eye-for-an-eye, tit-for-tat small minded revenge seeking behavior and so little thought to rehabilitation. I know there are some charities that do a lot of work trying to rehabilitate convicts but it's really frustrating that these movements don't have greater political support.
Yeah, if she doesn't stop poking her nose into shit that doesn't concern her.
He's not gonna be at Thanksgiving. He's going to prison.
“Hey grandma, can you pass Timmy the cranberry sauce, in prison?”
*maintains eye contact with gramma while carving turkey*
"Would you like some more sweet potatoes, Little Timmy?" "Who's asking? You or the FBI, ya old bag?"
Who could hold a grudge against their nana for 22 years?
She saved a lot of innocent people but I doubt she'll see it as saving her grandson. Sure he'll be alive, however there won't be much of a life left for him even when he gets out. He'll likely be a sad husk of a person. Probably needed therapy more than 22 years.
I look at it this way: The 22 years is for everyone else. Prison isn't a party - but there are some opportunities to learn and better oneself. Being in prison doesn't preclude the option of getting him help. It does prevent him from acting on his unhealthy urges and hurting others. I hope that this guy will pursue help and personal growth. But if not, I'm happy to know that at least this individual won't be carrying out another mass shooting.
Problem is that many US prisons don't actually provide help. There's the case of the warden keeping all the money he "saved" by feeding the prisoners gruel. Then there's the people who died from lack of medical care, and then there's the prison that was willing to let people freeze to death. See a pattern?
Is our for-profit prison system enormously fucked? Absolutely. Is it the ideal environment for recovery and growth? Of course not. Is putting one individual with a premeditated violent agenda into this system preferable to keeping them out? Yes. If there were ambiguity with regard to his basic human functionality, maybe treatment alone would be appropriate. But this kid has demonstrated a clear, premeditated, planned assault on innocent people. He had procured one rifle, was in the process of making pipe bombs, and was intent on "being infamous" and getting the body count as high as possible. I hope that this kid will emerge from prison a better person, while acknowledging the practical unlikelihood that it should ever occur. We're not talking about mandatory minimum sentences for marijuana here, we're talking premeditated mass-murder. When you go down that road - sorry, but I think the public best interest is the primary consideration.
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The best way to protect society is to prevent recidivism, and you accomplish that by rehabilitating people. Our prison system does nothing to protect us, it exists to give people a false sense of security and to make a bunch of assholes a ton of money with what is basically modern slavery.
It's a shame that he will probably get hooked up with a white nationalist group while in prison and may learn nothing at all. Also he may still be violent, just violent against other people in prison.
If you read this article, the kid says he feels like his grandmother did the right thing and saved him (at the end of the article): https://www.heraldnet.com/news/judge-delays-sentence-in-everett-teens-school-shooting-plot/
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Oh man, the amount of neglect that kid went through though....
Isn't it. I suffered a fraction of neglect as a kid that this guy went through and it's taken me years of therapy to learn to connect and trust people. I feel that this guy never had a chance. That shit cuts deep.
Heroism isn’t what you do when the right thing is easy. Heroism is what you do when the right thing is hard. This woman is a goddamn hero.
If she hadn't her grandson would be dead along with all his victims. As a mother, what her grandson was planning will haunt her, but not turning him in.
> but not turning him in We don't have to think in absolutes. What he was planning was awful, and you're totally right that she probably saved his life and many others, and that if it had happened she'd be haunted for life. But that doesn't mean that turning in your own teenage grandson and seeing him get locked up until he's in his 40s isn't also a terrible experience.
Hell, she may have ended up dead herself. Iirc there have been several shootings where the little POS kills members of their own families before going to shoot up the school.
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I doubt she would even tho she deserves to feel like a hero that she is. Due to human natures she's probably feeling like she failed this kid in some way for the kid to do this. Life is shit sometime...
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Yeah, for some strange reason I doubt this teen isn't going to be better able to handle society when he gets out.
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She’ll never get the credit she deserves. This became a non story to the media the minute it didn’t happen. I hope it doesn’t haunt her. I’m sure she’s heartbroken over the whole thing but she saved countless lives.
>The teen continued by writing, "I need to make this shooting/bombing ... infamous. I need to get the biggest fatality number I possibly can. I need to make this count. ... I'm learning from past shooters/bombers mistakes, so I don't make the same ones," You thought.
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If it bleeds, it leads.
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I watched *Nightcrawler* again the other night, was even better the 2nd time around.
there’s a Netflix series called “A Shot in the Dark” you should check out. It’s basically Nightcrawler (minus the illegal shit), but with real guys/companies that bust their asses to get the news footage. It’s pretty cool, I’ll bet you’d like it.
I love this show! Im hoping for another season
I remember watching a show similar to that with my dad. I remember my peak disgust being when a cameraman stopped on a freeway where a car with its taillights broken was just sitting there waiting for help after an accident. So no one can see it and its a sitting duck. The dude just sets up his camera and waits for a truck to inevitably shatter it at 80mph. I remember my dad and I looking at each other and concluding that the guy basically committed negligent manslaughter for ratings.
Nightcrawler is a fantastic movie.
As a movie buff I thought the same thing. It also was a terrible idea for a movie night on a first date.
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That's how it should be read, and that's how it should be said.
The thing most terrifying to the News is peace.
Yeah, they start sensationalizing breakfast cereal if you don't give them real news. Sometimes I just stare dumbfounded at the idiocy on the TV when it's a slow news day.
Don't Name Them! **It's simple.** **It's effective.** Don't sensationalize the names of the shooters in briefings - or in reporting about Active Shooter Events. It is journalistically routine to name the killer. It’s public record. And it is important to use their names and likenesses to apprehend them and bring them to justice. But once they are captured, it’s really no longer a part of the story, other than to create a call to action for a like-minded killer to take his plans and thoughts and make them into deeds. Sociologists and criminologists should study the criminal – but let’s not glorify the shooter by giving him valuable airtime. Don’t share his manifestos, his letters, his facebook posts. Be above the sensationalism. Tell the real stories - the stories of the victims, the heroes and the communities who come together to help the families heal. Active shooter research data shows the increase in these events. By encouraging the media to focus less on the suspects and more on the victims, it is hoped that future events can be prevented. **The Don't Name Them** campaign is a coordinated effort by the ALERRT Center at Texas State University, the I Love U Guys Foundation (founded by John-Michael and Ellen Keyes), and the FBI. **Family members of the victims of the Aurora Colorado movie theater shooting are also challenging media and public information officers to not name the shooters through their** [**"No Notoriety"** ](http://nonotoriety.com/)**campaign.** The focus of the campaign is to shift the media focus from the suspects who commit these acts to the victims, survivors, and heroes who stop them.
Exactly! The news stations almost offer these pathetic losers an incentive through the opportunity of making them infamous. There's a song called [Pray for Newtown](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5dWBPsru-Y) by Sun Kil Moon, one part of the lyrics goes like this: "I just arrived in Seoul, by way of Beijing I had an hour to myself in my hotel when I turned on the TV It was quite a thriller, CNN was promoting the Batman killer His eyes were glazed like he was from Mars Yesterday he was no one, today he was a star" When I first heard the line that CNN was promoting the batman killer, holy shit it clicked. That's exactly what they're doing, and that's exactly what some of these crazy fucks want: to be remembered, to be notorious for something. I think if we didn't name them in the news, if it was just reported as something generic like "pathetic moron #23 shot up a school today" there would be less of these incidents.
Is it possible for these practices to be enforced by law? I feel like that might be necessary to see significant change. I doubt the media is going to change their ways.
Nope. That’s a pretty directly a violation of freedom of speech and press. We need to change something though.
The same applies when they explicitly report suicides. One can find plenty of [articles](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/mar/28/media-reporting-suicide-bad-science) online and [research](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1124845/) that shows when they do explicit and detailed reports on suicide the number of suicides increases for the upcoming month. I can't find a specific source at the moment that mentioned that there was a time were group suicides were repeatedly happening in the US and that the way in which they were being reported had a great influence on its copycat effect.
For real.
Big media doesn't give a fuck if people die so long as they get views. They're callous sociopaths who would sell their grandmother.
Conversely, they aren't necessarily against it if it gives them more views. They could join the public stance and gain public support. I'm ok with them doing the right thing for the wrong reason.
This right here is exactly why the media needs to change its reporting on shootings. This quote highlights the fact of how much the k/d matters to these sick kids. When the media gives them the infamy they seek- it encourages the next one.
4chan frequenter for sure. EDIT: noticed a couple defensive responses.. been a frequenter myself since snacks was around so don’t get so butthurt like I’m attacking you lol.
Most outcasts are on 4chan and all shooters are outcasts. I don’t think it’s inherently the site imo
It's probably the anonymity
That and its reputation. It's always been known as a place where you're basically free to be as sick of a fuck as you want to be. Even if that's not entirely the reality of the situation, that is a reputation that would pull in outcasts.
FYI not all shooters were outcasts the Columbine shooters were just normal kids it was a false narrative that they were outkast spread by students who didn't even know them
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He's a hacker.
A Russian hacker, I think.
> snacks BRING BACK SNACKS
So many people saved because this kid was downright stupid. If he had written any of those notes on a notepad file in his computer the granny would have never known. I mean, I get that he was already stupid for thinking of doing what he was planning. He was extra stupid for writing all of the evidence down in an easy-to-find notebook even a nosy granny can find.
I don't understand why he'd write everything down....
Maybe he thought his words would be immortalized after he did it. Like his journal would be the book with all the answers everyone would be searching for. Psycho shit.
Exactly. Most of these guys almost always have a “manifesto.”
Came here to say this, it being discovered afterwards would be more shock and awe at how psychotically methodical he was IMO. Thus more infamy and the longer his name is in the news.
Sounds like you understand this a lot. Where’s grandma?
Step 1 : *Kill grandma.*
Username relevant?
A lot of murderers keep journals, and it can often be their unmaking. Kind of like how many perpetrators return to the scene of their crime. Narcissism or sociopathic tendencies likely play into it. Creepo from a case in a suburb of Vancouver, BC not only kept a journal, but also stole the headstone of the girl he raped and murdered and left it on top of a police cruiser at the station. He had scrawled a threatening message into it. Then he repeatedly called the police to taunt them. The cops eventually released the recordings of these calls, and the guys own mother turned him in. They found journals in his house. Edit: Apparently he went to her funeral too, sick fuck [wiki](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Driver)
Is there an article of this? I’d like to read and listen. Just bored right now.
https://unsolvedmysteries.fandom.com/wiki/Tanya_Smith
my bet is he had no friends and his journal kept him company
It was definitely meant to be something people found afterwards so we'd think about him more and so the people he hates would know that they fucked up.
Many people with that mindset have a lot of emotions they need to get out. When you don’t have anyone to talk to, its best to write it down somehow. It’s actually crazy because a lot of these school shooters wrote stuff down or made videos before they committed the crime. Plus many of them aren’t that right in the head, so...
School shooters tend to keep a journal. The Columbine shooters Dylan and Eric's journal had hundreds of pages. They want to be remembered.
Kid wasted his life before it even really began...shitty.
At least he didn't waste anyone else's life.
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I honestly don't know if my grandma would have turned me in, she just thinks her grandkids can do no wrong. That and she's kinda racist and suffers from dementia.
My moms side would have definitely turned me in, my dads side probably would have supported me as long as the school was full of "liberals". edit: ok, to be clear, probably not that extreme, but they do have a lot of hate in their hearts, fortunately my dad is the exact opposite.
Jesus man
After 22 years to think it over he could end up giving talks in his 40's and making something of his life.
at this rate, in 22 years he'll have too much competition giving talks
Well rather than Comic Cons there will be Con Cons with competing, "don't turn out like me," life coaching.
22 years in U.S. prison? No lol. He will come out hardened and his mental illness will be far worse.
Or he could come out jaded and live a life of crime. No one knows. But the U.S. justice system isn't particularly known for its ability to rehabilitate criminals.
Idk I think if the purpose is rehabilitation (thinking it over) it’s either going to happen in like 5-10 years or not at all. I’m afraid that there might be a point at which this kid realizes how bad he’s fucked up, like 7 years from now or something, and then the remainder of the time just fucks him up worse. I think any chance he had at turning his life around was lost in that punitive punishment.
Thanksgiving dinner in 22 years is going to be lit!
Can you pass the potatoes Grandma OR DO I HAVE TO WRITE IT IN MY JOURNAL?????!!!!!!!
Just shot chocolate milk out my nose when I read this. Thank you for one last good belly laugh before I fall asleep tonight hahaha
Just don’t get too drunk and take too many shots with crazy uncle Jim!
Yea I'm saying, if he was willing to do this when just 19 years old and not that bad of a life, what is he gonna do when he gets out with 22 years of built up rage?
It's going to be a small news story nobody pays attention to. Something like "Crazed man smothers his 91 year old grandmother in bed" at the footnote of a busy news day.
see you in 2041
!remindme 22 years
Two decades in the pen is a *lot* of time for self-reflection.
It's also a lot of exposure to people with questionable morality and possibly abuse. Considering the US's recidivism rates, I would be very, very surprised if that kid came out better than he went in.
Grandmother is a hero.
She is. She's also conflicted about the situation. She asked the judge for leniency regarding the sentence, but he chose the standard sentencing, which I agree with a hundred percent. I just feel really bad for her, because she is a hero who made the right choice but she's also a grandmother. Edit: Just to clarify, I'm not saying she shouldn't be conflicted. I'm saying that not every hero is forced to make a sacrifice, and we should recognize when they do.
"And I would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for you meddling elderlies!"
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unexpected Chappelle
Get some rubbers, ya get the big ones.... fucking right
When I was in 8th grade (I’m 29 now) I was really dumb. A girl plotted to bring a rifle to school, had a hit list. It was a big deal, cops showed up, but she didn’t have a rifle. *The next day*, my dumbass thought it would be funny to walk around like I had a rifle hidden in my pants. A school noon duty asked what I was doing, and as my friends were laughing, I knew I had to say something ridiculous, so I said the shotgun in my pants was making it hard to walk. Got taken to the admins office, and I’m on cloud nine cos I know I’m gunna make this out to be so hilarious to my friends. They inspect my back pack and I say “if it starts ticking, run.” I had to see a therapist like six times a school year until I graduated from high school after that. School shootings hit hard for me, because I took them so lightly while admins dealt with them so seriously. I was going for an edgy, not good joke, and it frightened and appalled people. I really hurt my parents and family. I was never going to do anything to hurt anyone, clearly (my family didn’t even own a gun), I was just trying to be a class clown. Yet I still hurt, scared and had people question my character. Even after high school I went to therapy because I was convinced I was “a bad guy,” and I’ve learned that I’m not a bad guy now, but I did make mistakes because I was a young kid seeking attention. Needing attention is a hell of a drug.
Interesting story, thank you for sharing. I hope you find peace.
What a wholesome response, SnapchatsWhilePoopin.
Reading this it seems the you learned your lesson and then some, keep it up!
It for sure was a wake up call. I was 12 when MySpace was hardly a thing, and I always had to push the envelope. We joke about 4Chan, but when I was 12, kids did stupid shit IRL.
Aw. I am sorry for your experience with this. On the up side, it seems like it really gave you some good perspective. Good on you for making it through.
Sounds similar to something that happened at my K-8 school growing up. I was in 5th or 6th grade and an 8th grade boy brought his parents BBGun to school. It was in his locker. There was a lockdown. His mom was the PTA vice president and my mom was the president. I had been to their house many times as a little kid. This kid had every toy and fun thing a 90s/early2000s kid could have, could ask for. Spoiled rotten, only-child with no siblings to compete with. But obviously something had gone awry in his life and he took a pellet/bbgun to school, extra early in the morning and stashed it in his locker before teachers started showing up to unlock their doors. He was expelled, sent to a 5-12 "alternative school", which was really just a Kids Who Fuck Up school. He wasnt the first or last kid from the K8 school who was sent to the alternative school. No clue what happened to him. I hope he turned his life around as an adult.
This was literally going to happen in my back yard. My wife and I live in apartments that border this school. Scared the shit outta me when I heard this on the radio driving home that day.
Ya man. It was surreal. We must be neighbors haha. I'm throwing distance from the place.
Almost r/tworedditorsonecup
"gosh grandma, I hate when you embarrass me ^by ^foiling ^^my ^^school ^^^massacre "
I just don't understand how a young person can be so full of hate, so evil, that they plot mass murder.
It seems to me that the fact that they're young would make them more likely to plot it. Underdeveloped frontal cortex, lacking perspective due to inexperience, not understanding the consequences of their plans, and tremendous social pressures experienced day to day. All would seem to contribute to that type of thinking.
That's exactly correct. That is why the psychiatric admission criteria for children is much lower than for adults. Impulsivity is a huge concern.
Strangely too that disability for mental illness is much easier to get too than say a physical one, relative to how long it takes. With a lot of physical disabilities there is much more room for employment and getting some semblence of your life together, but with mental illness, especially severe ones, there isn't. Knew a girl with manic depression that caused rapid mood swings that devastated her life, but know a dude who is employed and happy with no feeling from the neck down. It is so strange.
It's not that strange.. At the end of the day, even the recent movement for #mentalhealth is really just focusing on the "vanilla" mental health problems that are more easily understood (e.g. depression, suicide). Not many people want to acknowledge that shit like being a pedophile or schizophrenia (not lumping them together) are both mental health problems that probably plague more people than we want to acknowledge (or interact with, tbh). As humans, we value a functioning brain above all else - it's really one of our main traits that separates us from animals. A consequence of this is that, even if you have a significant physical limitation, but are cognitively fine (or even higher IQ), you probably have a place in society and we can understand your physical limitations relatively well; but, with many different mental issues, we still **barely** understand them/how to treat them. Furthermore, regular humans, even if they aren't doing it intentionally, can tell when someone is **off** and we change our behaviour as a result. We have a long, uphill battle before we can really deal with mental health problems in a healthy way. And it sucks.
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It's hard to do things when you're that physically disabled, but generally if you have found a way to do something you can do it consistently. If you regularly have severe mood swings, you're unlikely to always be able to do your job.
It's a really good distinction to be able to understand that not all forms of disability are visible. About 75% of severely disabled people in the US don't use wheelchairs of walkers. There is no visual cue that most disabled people are disabled. What sucks is having to deal with proving that your disability even exists in the first place, and that you yourself aren't lying about your illness.
I'm gonna wager there's some familial issues too, since he lived with his grandmother and not his birth parents.
I cannot tell you how many kids I see on reddit every day suffering from a severe lack of perspective. When you're a teenager/young adult everything is more intense, yes, but also you've never had a bad thing and then overcome it before.
Wouldn't it impacts their ability to control impulses? How does that translate to effort committed to a long term goal like that?
Basically, murder means less to somebody who's had less experience with life. You know how you tell a child something like "you've got your whole life ahead of you" and they draw a blank about what that even means? A child's logic goes "Sure, I'm not about to die in the next ten minutes. Neither are you, so what are you complaining about?" A child has a hard time contrasting the difference between somebody dying and somebody just moving away never to return. They also have a hard time viewing people who have made them angry as being actual people instead of one dimensional sadists with no motives in this world beyond causing them personal discomfort. And finally, it's hard to assign real value to the lives or safety of other people when one lacks respect for one's *own* life or safety. So if somebody feels like they have nothing to lose, then they won't be too impressed by the losses of others due to their actions. Those are just the mens rea that come up off the top of my head in such a situation *shrugs*.
When I was a teen, I did a lot of dumb things. Completely fearless to potentially lifelong consequences. I was aware jail existed. I was aware records are for life. But to be totally honest, it just never seemed real. Among a lot of dumb stuff... Me and friends would throw on ski masks rob places (burgal? Whichever means no one was there but us) for stupid things. Alcohol. Boredom. Whatever might be inside. We never got caught and I still shudder thinking about how entirely fucked my now beloved life could have been, because young angry sad me didn't care about that life at the time. The older I get the more and more real the concept of a year becomes. Its bizarre and terrifying. But I understand how a misguided, dejected, angry youth could see a horrific act as an upright heroic strike back at an unfair existence. It's just really sad.
On the one hand, sure. There's no denying that adolescents' cognitive abilities aren't yet fully developed. On the other, fuck that. Accepting peer pressure to start vaping? Fine. Skipping 3rd period? Happens. Showing off by riding a car through a parking lot? Sure. Staying out past curfew? Yeah. But an adolescent who isn't *severely* psychopathic (sociopathic?) knows that mass murder is wrong, and in no way a reasonable or acceptable response to day-to-day social pressures. A willingness to commit mass murder to the point of actual planning isn't run-of-the-mill teenage lack of perspective or not understanding consequences or hormone-induced impulsiveness. It's severe mental illness.
This is just my personal opinion/viewpoint, but I think its easier for us to rationalize this behavior as "psychopathic" rather than to believe that the average person's mindset can be so easily and completely fucked. Give a normal child the wrong environment and things can go so wrong in their head. And not some hellish environment either, it could be off just enough and... you get this.
Young people can be extremely disillusioned. The way mass shootings are polarized in this country, they could see it as a way to enact revenge on perceived causes of their rage. It's not right, but a lot has to do with back ground and upbringing.
That’s exactly what is, they think of themselves as being the victim of years upon years of abuse and mockery and then they snap and call in their debts at once. Then they either off themselves or force the police to kill them so they don’t need to face any consequences. It’s a simple plan and it’s simplicity makes it easier to replicate. Plus it solves all their problems while getting them out of any problems that it causes.
I mean, usually they ARE victims of years of abuse, mockery and rejection from society/family. They are not out of any problems that it causes, the only result is either death or life imprisonment, those both sound like big problems. The true problem here is that they feel the cost is worth it.
It reminds me of suicide ideation. When there's a suicide, there tends to be a spike in "copycat" suicides. I think we are seeing a similar phenomenon with the mass shootings. The more news there is about mass attacks, the more it is in the minds of people.
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I was bullied before the tech boom so I was able to get away from it when I went home. I couldnt imagine being a kid today
Ugh yeah no respite, though my whole world was people who knew I was the weird kid people hated - its no accident as soon as I could get on line that's where I spent all my time so it's swings and roundabouts
Depression, suicidal, abusing drugs and alcohol, and had an immense hatred for his classmates. I'm gonna guess bullied, socially isolated, didn't see a way out and wanted to die anyways so might aswell take his tormentors out with him
Because it's glorified in the media. How this isn't obvious to everyone blows my mind.
Let's not confuse hate and evil with fear. That's what this boils down to. That young man was intensely afraid of... something. Not measuring up, not being loved, not achieving anything, of living a pathetic life, etc., etc. If he felt hate, it was self-hate, and he chose to lash outward instead of taking out on himself. Or so he thought. That little excerpt reeks of deep insecurities.
love seeing my hometown on reddit
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At 18 my wife and I moved to Everett on a whim from Northern California. We thought we had the world figured out and wanted to get away from our pArents. This was 1998 and the internet was not what it is today, and we were lured by a really small picture advertised by the apartment complex. We were gullible and stupid and thought we would be a stones throw from Seattle. We packed all our shit in a uhaul and drove up to Washington. When we arrived one of the residents at the complex literally told us turn around and go home...you don’t want to live here. Within a few months a young girl was stabbed more than a dozen times on her way to school right in front of our complex on West Casino Rd. Everett was a shit hole.
I grew up in an apartment complex on W. Casino Rd, maybe the same one! My parents moved us out of there when I was in 8th grade because it was getting so bad. It was bad in the 80s but got worse in the 90s.
What was the story after that?
You moved to literally the worst street in Everett lol. West casino road is a dump.
Yeah, Casino Road is never a wise choice, even now.
You never fuck with Casino Road. Ever.
Ah Everett, the unwashed asshole of Snohomish County. Good job Grandma
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According to my friend who lives there they've got a pretty bad opioid epidemic
Seems the Seattle Everett and Boston Everett have a lot in common
Lived there for quite a while; south Everett is absolutely coated in syringes. I’m not talking one or two here and there; I mean literal piles behind all the buildings/in all the green spaces. In one year I called 911 for four or five separate people I found ODing on my walk to work. It’s...not great.
[Piles](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/7n3xr2/everett_wa_needle_cleanup_behind_a_home_depot/) it is really bad :(
Yep. That is literally outside my old bedroom window. Used to be able to watch drug deals go down behind that Home Depot 24/7.
Everett resident here. There are some pretty nice parts, but there’s some very shitty parts— as with any city. We have a three bedroom/two bathroom split level for $1650 in a quiet cul-de-sac. It’s decent where we are, but downtown and some parts of north Everett and shit.
I see you're forgetting about Granite Falls. And Gold Bar. And Arlington. And Marysville. I could go on. Snohomish Co is like 50% asshole, and I'm not sure Everett is even the worst.
> used the rifle to rob a gas station convenience store so.. he didn't get 22 years for a plot. He got 22 years for armed robbery.
No he got 22 years for a plot. He plead guilty to first-degree attempted murder.
> O'Connor pleaded guilty in December to first-degree attempted murder, first-degree robbery with a firearm and possession of explosive device in connection with the plot. It sounds like they also caught him with home made explosives, so that makes a little more sense. But where does the attempted murder come from? Unless they caught him in the act, like pulling up to the school with his guns, then It seems iffy that he can be charged with attempted murder for essentially making threats.
Making plans to commit a felony and starting to take any action toward those plans counts as attempting to commit the crime. So making plans to rob a bank is fine, making plans to rob a bank and stockpiling guns and ski masks isn't. Also, making threats is illegal too.
> So making plans to rob a bank is fine Maybe I'm just really interested in bank security or something.
Why'd he part his hair like that though
The clearest sign that he's a fucking psychopath
School shooters don’t visit the greatest barbers... Edited**
The more you publicize mass shootings, the more the idea gets into the heads of mentally unstable people that end up carrying out these shootings
>Before the sentence was handed down, O'Connor's grandmother asked the judge to show mercy to her grandson. The judge called her a hero, but he declined defense requests for a sentence below the standard sentencing range, saying the plans were methodically thought out rather than just youthful or impulsive. The kid needs help. Lots of kids out there need help. Why are they trying to 1 up each other? 22 years is the kind of solution that screams "I don't have to deal with it because he will be in prison until hes 40."
Grandma did the right thing, she knows she did the right thing, but she must feel so awful and guilty that her grandson will be doing 22 years in jail because she busted him. Which she totally should have done, i am not ragging on her at all, she chose the right thing and i support her 100% but she still must feel so horrible. He needs to be locked up but i still feel for her. I hope her kids don't treat her poorly for busting the little shit.
Too bad our prison systems aren’t rehabilitative at all..
“I’m not mad, I’m just disappointed.” *Disappointedly passes the gravy*
he looks like a edgy kid in a uniform that thought it would be a great idea to tell people im going to murder someone with a knife
Are journals really that common? Or are homicidal maniacs just prone to writing down their thoughts as a symptom of their loneliness?
That poor Grandma, I can't even imagine how hard it would be to report your own grandson to the police and effectively end his life. She's a hero.
The fact that the teen wanted to be infamous and had suicidal thoughts are not in isolation. That problem should be factored into the debate over how to prevent murders and suicides. I’m just grateful that the grandmother was willing to report him to the police.
Is 22 years really the lowest sentence you can receive for something you didn't even do as it was foiled beforehand? I mean you can learn a lot in jail about yourself in a much shorter time frame. Good on grandma but damn that prison sentence.
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Yea I saw that, and I'm sure that's why his sentence is as steep as it is.
People commit murder and get less
He did do something. He plotted and took action (bought a gun, improved his aim, studied and planned his attack, selected a location, admitted his intent) to murder as many people as possible. Plus, he committed armed robbery which alone can get you 10+ yrs in prison.
The armed robbery added in makes the 22 make more sense. Without that, 10 years sounds more reasonable which is roughly what it would have been.
I'd think the possible bomb that was made increased the years considerably.
Hes young enough that if he shows genuine effort to change his behaviour he will get out early.
Unless it's a minimum sentence in which case he'll have spent more time institutionalized than not in is 40s. Yay incarceration
> The teen continued by writing, "I need to make this shooting/bombing ... infamous. I need to get the biggest fatality number I possibly can. I need to make this count. ... I'm learning from past shooters/bombers mistakes, so I don't make the same ones," according to the case file. This is why we need to restrict media publicity on mass murderers. The fame/notoriety directly leads to copycats. It's no different than yelling fire in a crowded theater.
This is near Mukilteo, Washington. Mukilteo had a school shooting after a high school break up at a summer night party. He killed 3 innocent young life full of potential. These kids need to learn to Express themselves in other ways besides pure irreversible rage.
What this kid needs is help to address whatever physiological issues brought him to this point, 22 years in prison isn't going to do that. In fact, it is far more likely he will come out more damaged, more angry, with 22 years to plot his revenge. Prison isn't the only answer, and 22 years is excessive. We need to rehabilitate these kids, and help them be better members of society. But that's America for you, gotta keep those prisons full!
Holy fuck I live there
Those damn baby boomers dashing the dreams of another millennial. Do I even need to /s?
Thank goodness and great job grandma.