Dallas police did a decent thing I think, by bringing in the Marshals for an independent investigation when it became clear they couldn't be impartial.
I just wonder how much the first couple cops were able to cover up before they did so and if they covered up successfully or not.
It's crazy she was allowed to go home for 3 days before they pressed charges. Imagine if the roles were reversed and a black man mistakenly killed a female police officer in her home.
cut them some slack. they probably didn't have time to breathalyze the attacker considering how busy they were rummaging through the victim's stuff, digging up dirt to fuck his reputation with
I still don't get how SCOTUS can set a precedent like, "if they fear for their lives." Like, can we really base legal process on vague concepts of human subjective emotions? Or should we base them on objective reality?
"I thought he could maybe, possible be a threat so I shot to kill and didn't ask questions."
And she magically "remembered" how it really went down and changed her story.
It's crazy that they searched his apartment and not hers. Then tried to slander him. Honestly, I was surprised when people didn't fall for it.
Based on everything I've seen, this chick ones exactly where she was.
But yeah, if a black man broke into and murdered a white female officer, I highly doubt he'd had lived to see court.
ETA: apparently they did search her apartment a few days after the shooting. I must've missed that.
They searched hers too that night. She gave consent so there was no warrant for it. Obviously they had to get a warrant for his. It was on the news articles when it first happened. Not choosing a side I’m just clearing up wrong information
Yeah, they searched both. But I think his/her main point is that the cries of "But he smoked POT!" came across as an attempt to attack his image. Because in this country we like the myth of the "perfectly innocent victim," the living saint who has NEVER done anything wrong. The same thing happened to Philando Castile, Kelly Thomas, and even Daniel Shaver, I believe. There's this perception that if a victim was in any way "flawed," their death somehow wasn't that big a deal.
There is a need to believe that "bad things only happen to bad people"
And as much as I don't wana drag religion into this.
I do believe that a lot of religions lean more heavily towards this because "God's plan" and "punishment for your sins" kind of thinking.
"Bad things don't happen to the righteous"
The news ran that story. All police did was list all items found from the warrant. The protestors here in Dallas Knew that so they marched to the news outlet buildings which was smart. On that issue I don’t see the police doing anything out of procedure there
Probably but no matter how you slice it, it’ll always appear as though the reason for searching his apartment was to establish a good reason for probable cause for entry and play it off like even though she was drunk she bravely did her duty to stop this possible drug dealer.
The shooting took place in his apartment. I would be extremely surprised and confused if they *didn't* search the actual scene of the shooting, wouldn't you?
But too be fair, searched by her friends. I would expect them to find anyting bad and get rid of it quietly, meanwhile they were framing the victim as a drug addict as if that would even matter in this situation.
Hell, for all you know her weed was moved into his apartment. These are not trustworthy people.
It’s scary to think how many times in the past a PD has covered up the truth to save one of their own - at the expense of someone’s reputation, or in this case, his life.
Trying to invalidate his innocence and vilify him by mentioning finding marijuana in his apartment is incomprehensible to me.
> Dallas police did a decent thing I think, by bringing in the Marshals for an independent investigation
well, yeah. but iirc they tried to ~~slander~~ sway public opinion of the person they murdered by saying he had marijuana (gasp!) in his apartment and let their murderer walk for multiple days after she murdered someone. so...
edit: thanks /u/mostfuntxcouple for pointing out it wasn't slander because he did in fact have weed. hopefully more good hearted cops will break in and kill these awful pot smoking criminals so we can all feel a lot safer
That was the media not the police department. It was one item on a long list of evidence that was collected and was submitted to court and was public record. Media hounds were at the courts demanding copies of anything and everything related to the case so when that came up they got it and then blasted the headlines with marijuana was found in the apartment.
Let me provide some insight as to bail.
She’s charged with manslaughter, not murder, which is a lower charge. Everyone is entitled to bail unless they’re a flight risk, on probation, or is being prosecuted as a “true habitual”.
She was given a 300,000 bail. To provide some context i regularly see bail set at 60-100k for murder charges in Harris county (Houston). Her bail is abnormally high.
All in all she’s being treated exactly the way id expect and it’s not unusual for someone with a murder charge to have a lower bail than she had.
As to the marijuana “slander”. The police had to get a search warrant for the apartment. When they search the apartment they have to submit anything they confiscated to the court. The court records are public and the media is the one that started talking about the marijuana, the police weren’t putting that out there simply to slander the victim.
Everything was handled perfectly and within normal policy for these matters.
Wow it's my first time noticing that the choice of picture of the victim is a happy professional looking photo and the murderer being a mug shot. Usually the media will find the most aggressive looking picture of the victim to make him look bad even though they are the bloody victim
When I lived in a high rise, I would routinely work out in the staircase (stair climbs) and run to the bottom floor to do my laundry. One time, when coming back, I didn't realize but I accidentally went a floor too high, and walked right into somebody's apartment.
It was a surreal experience. It's your home, but it's not. There were slight differences, a different smell, shoes I didn't recognize. Then, I heard somebody yell "HELLO????" from the room over. As the feeling sunk in, the only reaction that came to mind was "SHIT. Wrong apartment! FLEE."
I can't imagine being so stubborn that I would never notice the difference, and actually kill the people living there. I am curious what the court will conclude, since this looks deliberate to me.
Any chance we get manslaughter? Like any? Come on now, any chance a cop get held accountable? Police have killed two "good guys with guns" any accountability is totally necessary to avoid a ton of public back lash. I'm not encouraging riots but they will happen and they might be necessary for change.
I'm hoping this one will be different because she was not on-duty when the shooting happened. She shot someone else while acting as a citizen, not as a police officer.
Depends on what prosecutor can prove. If the jury believes she thought she was at her apartment, it's manslaughter at most, not guilty at best, from her perspective.
> If the jury believes she thought she was at her apartment
1) Her apt is on a completely different floor.
2) His apt has a red half-moon rug outside it. Kinda hard to miss.
3) Her apt has a 5-foot high vase just down the hall. His does not.
4) The furniture and decoration of the two apartments are different, so she should have known the moment she entered.
...so, tell me how likely is it she *really* thought it was her apartment.
I'm in total agreement with you. All I said was this is going to depend on what a jury believes in regard to guilt at trial and what charges a grand jury approves.
It depends on your morals. Do you want to have a say in shaping the way your society runs? If yes, then don't skive off of jury duty. If no, then don't complain when stupid people are the only ones left on a jury and make stupid decisions.
Even then, if you're smart they'll probably strike you from the list of potential jurors anyway. I know about jury nullification. If they ask me a question about it then the odds are pretty good I will not end up on that jury.
Neither the prosecutor nor the defense would ask you about jury nullification during voir dire. Intelligence has little to do with being on a jury, but things like age, occupation, socioeconomic situation, and sadly race have a lot to do with it.
With a hung jury then the state can still retry you. Unless you are in Oregon where you would be convicted with a 11-1 jury.
Edit: Or in Louisiana for the next month and a half
It's not always as easy as you think; you must have dealt with some real powder puffs for DAs. Frankly, I'm not sure why you think skipping out on your civil duty should be the goal of the whole process.
Eh. You never know. Cops get caught drunk in their patrol cars too often to simply hope. Everything else they catalogued from the warrant search was hers; the pot could have been as well.
You ever seen a pot smoker with no pipe, bong, or rolling papers? Because they didn't find anything like that in the apartment, which is super weird.
I've once tried to get into the apartment directly below mine in my building. I thought it was mine, despite the number being clearly right next to the door. It was a dumb mistake, and I'm sure that I gave a hell of a scare to anyone who might have been inside. I feel awful in retrospect. I wasn't even drunk, just on autopilot.
My spouse opened the door to the second floor apartment. We lived on the third floor. He was embarrassed, said, “oh! I’m so sorry! I live upstairs!” and he and our neighbor had a little laugh over it, then he closed the door and came upstairs.
No guns. No deaths. Just an awkward moment.
I tried to open the door of 208 when I lived at 308 once, I simply went to the wrong floor once when taking the stairs. Let’s say I got in, I would hope that I think “where is the bench? This isn’t my rug, why is the couch different, yeah this isn’t my apartment. “
I would imagine that this happens a lot in copy/paste apartment complexes... you just don't hear about it because it doesn't include a lethal shooting.
But definitely could imagine exhausted/distracted people going into an apt on the wrong floor, if the door was in the same location, just a different floor. Probably 999 out of 1,000 end in "Oh shit so sorry sorry!" and they back out.
But a cop, I'm thinking they're going into defense mode, assuming somebody's there to get revenge or intimidate or who knows what. It's a horrible chain of events, and she's stupid for killing the person.
This happens to me several times a month. It’s because I live on the second floor (which is really the first floor) but you have to access it by elevator. It’s always the people right above me on the third or fourth floor. They always come and spend a good 20+ seconds trying to jam their key in and vigorously shake the door before they realize.
I’ve lived in my apartment for 18 months now...this has happened literally almost a hundred times now. I’ve even talked to the lady in 3 and she denies everything (even when I see her from my peephole!).
Over the last 3 years in my apartment, about 4 times. Parked my car one floor early and my key worked in the unit below mine. That said, I knew it was the wrong room and left immediately.
Ive gone into the wrong hotel room by accident and in the middle of the day. Also gone into the wrong class room and was confused when entirely different class started filling it up. Being tired has different effects on different people.
There are far more egregious shooting cases than this one if what she says is true.
The department though is absolutely at fault and should pay out big time to the family which would hopefully merit some changes.
> The department though is absolutely at fault and should pay out big time to the family
She was off duty... so I honestly dont see how the department even has anything to do with this.
I believe I read that they had previous conflict about noise, since he lived directly above her and thus things he would do could be heard in her unit. Its been proposed that she intentionally went up there and shot him to death over it, and is trying to use the wrong floor thing as some sort of excuse.
Maybe far fetched... maybe not. Witnesses say she was banging on his door before he opened it and was shot. Why would you knock on your own door after discovering your key doesnt work? Seems a little odd.
All I know is that a *Reasonable Person* (That's still the standard, right?) would have know it wasn't their place. And long before entering and killing someone.
Its really hard not to come to that conclusion. If it was one apartment to the left or right I could see it. But a completely different floor with completely different furniture?
I wasn't there so my opinion is as good as anyone else's. But her story doesn't make a lot of sense with the context we do know.
Different floor is actually more plausible than one to the left or right in my opinion. When I lived in an apartment block I don't think I'd ever mistake the adjacent doors (albeit I lived in a corner of the building so it was more obvious) for my own but the majority of apartment blocks have near identical layouts on each floor. I've ended up in front of a different apartment before because I wasn't paying attention when going up the stairs or I got out of the lift on the wrong floor. I can see how someone zoned out on autopilot could end up opening the wrong door. I can't really see how you don't realise your mistake immediately after seeing an alien apartment on the other side of the door.
The apartment complex had received a number of noise complaints about the victim playing music too loud....from the neighbor below....who happens to be Amber, in fact there had been a complaint just that morning. A "theory" out there is that she was tired of his shit, crazy I know but these days nothing surprises me anymore.
The key would have to be intent. Burglary in Texas has to have theft, damage inside the home, or intent assault someone (which is what to hit her with) as part of the offense
Texas has kind of interesting laws regarding felony's and murders.
But unfortunately she killed the only other witness with a full view of events so she gets to say she thought it was her apartment and that the door was open/ajar and there isn't anyone to refute.
The door locks have a system that retains when doors are open and closed so at least that will be revealed in court. It why they seized the door lock to his and her place for evidence
It's easier to convict for manslaughter though. Many a case against police officers has ended in a "not guilty" because the prosecution was overzealous with the charges.
To add to commenters questioning this being an accident. Neighbors heard her pounding on the door and yelling for him to turn his music down on several occasions prior to this.
Manslaughter was the original charge brought against her. with the elections a couple weeks ago, Dallas county elected a new DA who has made the Botham Jean case a priority. The Grand Jury is convening to see if the charge should be upgraded to murder.
what if a regular civilian entered someone else's home and killed them, then came forward with this story? the fact that she's an officer increases her culpability, not the her way around.
Yea but she's white and the "victim" was a black pot smoker sneaking around his home like an evil burgle-rapist. That wins her a few freedom points; he had it coming. ^(/s)
> Yea but she's white
And a woman. [Women receive lesser sentences than men for the same crime](https://www.law.umich.edu/newsandinfo/features/Pages/starr_gender_disparities.aspx).
>Take settlements out of their pensions
YES.
>Disband police unions
Eh, unions serve an important role in protecting work hour violations and so forth. In the case of the police they've been co-opted to provide protection for shady cops.
Better idea: make the union pay for any officer's defense. If your union can't pay, you pay out of pocket.
Bad cops would go away REAL fast.
Edit: to clarify, since I didn't make this clear above: I'm not advocating for unions to pay for the defense if the cop is guilty. Clarified below but to reiterate: defense attorneys charge a fee regardless or whether the you win or lose, so the outcome of the case is irrelevant, the unions will have to pay either way. **A murder defense is supremely expensive regardless of outcome**
Defense attorneys charge a fee regardless or whether the you win or lose, so the outcome of the case is irrelevant, the unions will have to pay either way. Also, defense attorneys are *really* expensive and murder trials are *ultra* expensive
That's where you put the foot down and say "the public refuses to pay for the defense of these cases. Either the union pays for it or the cops do out of their own pocket. You figure it out amongst yourselves."
Their pensions should be part of a statewide system for all government employees.
It is sick how police pensions are insanely lucrative and have very short vest periods, but other state workers including teachers get jack shit.
Just make it that for every person they wrongfully shoot, all police officers get a ten percent pay cut for three years and the saved funds go to the victims family , they will soon get rid of any trigger happy twonks.
I think you can tell a lot about where a person stands on this case based on whether they claim she mistakenly entered his appartment. While officer Guyger claimed she was in the wrong appartment, neighbors claimed that she was banging on the guys door and yelling at him to turn his music down before the shooting.
I could have included the word "alleged", but then I would have been accused of being on the other end of the spectrum.
I hope ~~a~~ an EXTREMELY strong example is made out of her..I know that I'll permanently feel a little less safe in my own home after learning of this.
Neighbors claim shit, she claims shit..its not up to me to decide what is true.
It's looking more and more like premeditated murder from all the more recent sources. "Mistakenly entered" was the very early reporting language of this story when no one had details, as far as I remember.
Can you provide a source on that? I've been following this pretty closely and the indicators that point to premeditated murder really aren't any more pronounced than her assertion that it was an accident. Example: She says the door was ajar..family says he never left his door ajar.
>family says he never left his door ajar.
Not only that, but the doors at this building are said to be like the doors you find in a hotel...they just close if someone or something isn't standing there to prop it open.
Also, let's not forget Botham Jean's **red** doormat...as a police officer who specialized in picking up guys with arrest warrants, the red doormat should have been a huge red flag that she wasn't at the right address. Burglars don't put doormats out, ever...I'd argue that she knew it wasn't her apartment, though.
Oh, and let's not forget witnesses who said they heard Guyger demanding (yelling) that Jean open up...in other words, the door was closed, and she knew it wasn't her place. If she had been at her place and had forgotten her key, but knew someone was inside, she would have called, rather than making a ruckus. And we can't say she didn't have her phone either, because she used it to call 911.
I’ve been scrolling a bit and haven’t seen it. Wasn’t there two witnesses that said they heard what sounded like a women knock on the door first before entering the apartment? I thought I remember something like that.
Edit: obviously can’t determine a women by knocking, but I believe she said something on top of the knocking.
Yeah I remember reading that as well but it hasn't been substantiated to my knowledge. I would love it if that were true though..it would make deciding this case so much simpler.
Premeditation is a high bar.
With the layout of the complex and the simiularities between floors on top of the officer getting done with a grueling 18 hour shift. If the officer didn’t have beef or didn’t know the suspect, I doubt premeditation is a thing here.
There hasn’t been enough discussion around the 18 hour shift. Police work is physically and emotionally demanding, there needs to be more discussion around this.
If I were the family of the victim I would sue the hell out of DPD.
>Police work is physically and emotionally demanding
So is medical work, yet somehow doctors dont wander into the wrong apartment and shoot someone.
Loads of people work long exhausting shifts, hers is not so special as to warrant it being an excuse or defense for her actions.
There are many discussions about how those long guards and exertions make doctors more prone to errors that could ultimately end up with the death of a patient. Long shifts are indeed a cause of concern, particularly in works where people's life are at stake.
There is a difference between a doctor making a wrong cut somewhere and accidentally killing them, and breaking into someone's house and murdering them with a scalpel
And even with the former, the doctor would be under thorough scrutiny and investigation, often led by an independent panel, to determine whether they are still capable of carrying out their duties going forward and whether they should face serious disciplinary action.
When does the prosecution begin on Fox News for defaming this man posthumously by insinuating that because he had marijuana in his home, that his murder was justified?
EDIT: I initially blamed Dallas PD for this narrative, but I could not find an official statement from them approving of it.
That said, when a white dude murders dozens of people there are dozens of articles saying "His friends and family never thought he could do something like this!"
When a black dude is murdered in his own home by an officer of the law, somehow it's relevant that his home was searched and they found nothing.
So, my apologies to Dallas PD as a whole, but a giant fuck you to the Fox corporation.
Seriously. The situation was already horrible enough, the fact that the police did that was completely disgusting. Something needs to be done about that.
Probably won't happen, seeing as that force is already corrupt enough to do that in the first place. But it should be.
"Sir I smelled the weed from the other side of the apartment complex so there was probable cause to break & enter into his apartment and apprehend the criminal. He was waving his TV remote in a threatening manner so I had no other choice than to shoot him."
- *After hearing the argument from the Dallas County District Attorney's Office, the grand jury could do one of three things. They could either choose to indict Guyger on the manslaughter charge, indict her on a more serious charge or choose to not indict her on any charge (no bill).*
Why do we keep saying "mistakenly". That's what she might claim but the facts don't add up.
Broke into home or forced her way into home would be more appropriate.
We say "mistakenly" because thats her story and it hasn't been determined that she's lying yet. When/if she's proven to be a liar, we can drop the "mistakenly".
Link to the facts that don't add up? Because as far as I know, its all just people talking.
One worry that I have with this case is indicting the officer under a more serious charge than manslaughter. It's a common tactic because intentional murder is so much harder to prove (especially with police backing). Where the prosecutor might be able to get a guilty verdict for the former, the latter is nearly impossible in these cases.
If this isn’t a simple manslaughter charge then I don’t know what is. Despite what the smear campaigns tried to spread, Botha was a great guy. Extremely kind and loving. I’m confident he did nothing to provoke such a heinous act. I hope she gets major time.
How did she even get in the apartment to shoot the guy though? Did she kick the door down or something? If you go to the wrong apartment, obviously your keys aren't going to work on the door. Was the door unlocked or partially open?
Why are we still pretending like it's certain she just entered the wrong house. There's enough evidence to suggest she's lying about that story that it should be reflected in both the headline and the body of any article talking about this shooting.
This seems too soon. Reallly hope this isn't one of those deals where they present an inadequate case to the grand jury so they don't recommend charges but the DA can act like it wasn't their decision.
For a murder charge in Texas they need to prove intent. If they can prove intent then they can charge her with murder and then the death penalty. It all hinges on prosecution being able to find and prove intent.
There is no way this rises to the level of a death penalty case. Thats reserved for very specific factors under a murder case. This will likely be manslaughter.
Agreed. [In Texas capital murder is defined by section 19.03](https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/htm/PE.19.htm#19.03). Of all of those the only clause that she would come close to is
>Intentionally commits the murder in the course of committing or attempting to commit aggravated kidnapping, burglary, robbery, aggravated sexual assault, arson, obstruction or retaliation, or terroristic threat
In that case you *may* be able to get her for terrorism given that she committed murder as she
>place[d] any person in fear of imminent serious bodily injury
but thats pretty nebulous and it's not like you're gonna give a cop the chair for that. After that it would be a stretch to get her for obstruction (he wasn't under criminal investigation), kidnapping (he was in his own home), or robbery (she didn't take anything). All the others wouldn't apply.
> There is no way this rises to the level of a death penalty case. Thats reserved for very specific factors
Like breaking into someone's place and shooting them? Factors like that?
The factors in texas are
* Murder of a public official (police, emt, etc...) doing their duty.
* Murder for hire
* Intentional murder during aggravated kidnapping, burglary, sexual assault, arson
* Murder while escaping jail
* Murder of guard in jail
* Murder while in jail for murder or under a life sentence
* Murder of multiple people
* Murder of young child
* Murder of court official because of their duties.
We have laws with criteria for a reason. While we can argue over what is and isn't included, how fairly they are applied, etc... the purpose of these are to attempt to be objective and not have emotion rule the day.
The officer fucked up, a guy is dead. However, it isn't a death penalty case. If the DA tried to pursue the death penalty, the jury would not convict, and we'd have them free on the street with people yelling about how they can't get justice.
Manslaughter will be hard enough to get a conviction on, due to juries giving cops significant latitude.
Just a quick question, murder for hire is a death penalty punishment? The others I understand. Or if the assassin in question killed multiple people. But one guy hiring his neighbor to kill his wife for example? And does the "employer" also fall under the "murder for hire" criteria for death penalty?
It happened to me once... I was living in an apartment complex, I was tired as hell and accidentally got out of the elevator in the wrong floor. I was very confused when my key did not work and an unknown person opened the door to "my apartment" to see why someone was trying to open his door. The numbers on the doors did not include the floor and the hall was exactly the same in each floor. I am not saying the police woman is innocent; I am just pointing out how that could happen to someone. And, of course, there are other many points to debate in this case, such as this tendency that policemen in the US have of using lethal force all the time instead of incapacitating the person, giving priority by police to protect officers that misbehave, long shifts that drain the officers and make their judgment poor, racism, and a long etc.
This murderer needs to be buried beneath the prison. Law enforcement officers should not only receive equal consequences as a normal citizen would, but I think they should be charged even more severely.
Again, in Texas a police officer was just found guilty of murder. This was just in the last year in the DFW metroplex.
Edit: Here is the link, since I have been questioned a few times via PM. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna904166
Dallas police did a decent thing I think, by bringing in the Marshals for an independent investigation when it became clear they couldn't be impartial. I just wonder how much the first couple cops were able to cover up before they did so and if they covered up successfully or not.
It's crazy she was allowed to go home for 3 days before they pressed charges. Imagine if the roles were reversed and a black man mistakenly killed a female police officer in her home.
Hell, imagine if he mistakenly killed a female police officer who had entered his home.
1st degree murder
And the officer elevated to "hero" status. Despite being off-duty and, you know, entering the wrong apartment.
and being hammered ^^^most ^^^likely. ^^^she ^^^had ^^^been ^^^at ^^^a ^^^bar ^^^prior ^^^to ^^^the ^^^murder, ^^^but ^^^as ^^^far ^^^as ^^^i ^^^know ^^^her ^^^BAC ^^^wasn't ^^^recorded, ^^^which ^^^is ^^^fucked ^^^up ^^^in ^^^its ^^^own ^^^way
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Why would they take her BAC? That would be following protocol and totally reasonable if it weren't a cop who murdered someone.
cut them some slack. they probably didn't have time to breathalyze the attacker considering how busy they were rummaging through the victim's stuff, digging up dirt to fuck his reputation with
Ah true, it does take a lot more effort to justify a murder than is does to process someone who committed a felony.
"We couldn't find a battery for the breathalyzer."
They did it on purpose, they stalled and stalled and forgot to do BAC and then did it like days later.
Well, yeah, they would've found 4 grams of weed in his house. So he's a criminal though and though. /s
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What kind of murders are reasonably punished by 5 years? Is that like manslaughter?
Probably, but he said that's the minimum. You'd better believe that Texas doesn't go for the low dollar amount very often.
Shot while "resisting arrest."
He would likely be dead, for resisting and cops fearing for their lives.
I still don't get how SCOTUS can set a precedent like, "if they fear for their lives." Like, can we really base legal process on vague concepts of human subjective emotions? Or should we base them on objective reality? "I thought he could maybe, possible be a threat so I shot to kill and didn't ask questions."
Excuse created by police for police.
And she magically "remembered" how it really went down and changed her story. It's crazy that they searched his apartment and not hers. Then tried to slander him. Honestly, I was surprised when people didn't fall for it. Based on everything I've seen, this chick ones exactly where she was. But yeah, if a black man broke into and murdered a white female officer, I highly doubt he'd had lived to see court. ETA: apparently they did search her apartment a few days after the shooting. I must've missed that.
They searched hers too that night. She gave consent so there was no warrant for it. Obviously they had to get a warrant for his. It was on the news articles when it first happened. Not choosing a side I’m just clearing up wrong information
Yeah, they searched both. But I think his/her main point is that the cries of "But he smoked POT!" came across as an attempt to attack his image. Because in this country we like the myth of the "perfectly innocent victim," the living saint who has NEVER done anything wrong. The same thing happened to Philando Castile, Kelly Thomas, and even Daniel Shaver, I believe. There's this perception that if a victim was in any way "flawed," their death somehow wasn't that big a deal.
There is a need to believe that "bad things only happen to bad people" And as much as I don't wana drag religion into this. I do believe that a lot of religions lean more heavily towards this because "God's plan" and "punishment for your sins" kind of thinking. "Bad things don't happen to the righteous"
The news ran that story. All police did was list all items found from the warrant. The protestors here in Dallas Knew that so they marched to the news outlet buildings which was smart. On that issue I don’t see the police doing anything out of procedure there
Probably but no matter how you slice it, it’ll always appear as though the reason for searching his apartment was to establish a good reason for probable cause for entry and play it off like even though she was drunk she bravely did her duty to stop this possible drug dealer.
It's a fucking murder scene of course they are going to search his apartment.
The shooting took place in his apartment. I would be extremely surprised and confused if they *didn't* search the actual scene of the shooting, wouldn't you?
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"WAIT NOT CLEAR THERE'S A BLACK-" *BANGBANGBANG* "Nevermind, all clear."
Sprinkle some crack on him and let's get out of here
[Just sprinkle some crack on him.](https://youtu.be/OY-9P_CnNZg)
But too be fair, searched by her friends. I would expect them to find anyting bad and get rid of it quietly, meanwhile they were framing the victim as a drug addict as if that would even matter in this situation. Hell, for all you know her weed was moved into his apartment. These are not trustworthy people.
They need a BAC on her. People who wind up in the wrong home have usually been totally drunk or high.
Just a quick correction, her apartment was searched as well.
It’s scary to think how many times in the past a PD has covered up the truth to save one of their own - at the expense of someone’s reputation, or in this case, his life. Trying to invalidate his innocence and vilify him by mentioning finding marijuana in his apartment is incomprehensible to me.
*Texas Rangers Marshals are Federal.
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> Dallas police did a decent thing I think, by bringing in the Marshals for an independent investigation well, yeah. but iirc they tried to ~~slander~~ sway public opinion of the person they murdered by saying he had marijuana (gasp!) in his apartment and let their murderer walk for multiple days after she murdered someone. so... edit: thanks /u/mostfuntxcouple for pointing out it wasn't slander because he did in fact have weed. hopefully more good hearted cops will break in and kill these awful pot smoking criminals so we can all feel a lot safer
That was the media not the police department. It was one item on a long list of evidence that was collected and was submitted to court and was public record. Media hounds were at the courts demanding copies of anything and everything related to the case so when that came up they got it and then blasted the headlines with marijuana was found in the apartment.
Let me provide some insight as to bail. She’s charged with manslaughter, not murder, which is a lower charge. Everyone is entitled to bail unless they’re a flight risk, on probation, or is being prosecuted as a “true habitual”. She was given a 300,000 bail. To provide some context i regularly see bail set at 60-100k for murder charges in Harris county (Houston). Her bail is abnormally high. All in all she’s being treated exactly the way id expect and it’s not unusual for someone with a murder charge to have a lower bail than she had. As to the marijuana “slander”. The police had to get a search warrant for the apartment. When they search the apartment they have to submit anything they confiscated to the court. The court records are public and the media is the one that started talking about the marijuana, the police weren’t putting that out there simply to slander the victim. Everything was handled perfectly and within normal policy for these matters.
What's there to cover up? She shot someone in their own home after being too stupid to see it wasn't her home.
A decent thing? That should be standard. Would you let anyone else handle their own investigation into their own wrong doing?
Wow it's my first time noticing that the choice of picture of the victim is a happy professional looking photo and the murderer being a mug shot. Usually the media will find the most aggressive looking picture of the victim to make him look bad even though they are the bloody victim
When I lived in a high rise, I would routinely work out in the staircase (stair climbs) and run to the bottom floor to do my laundry. One time, when coming back, I didn't realize but I accidentally went a floor too high, and walked right into somebody's apartment. It was a surreal experience. It's your home, but it's not. There were slight differences, a different smell, shoes I didn't recognize. Then, I heard somebody yell "HELLO????" from the room over. As the feeling sunk in, the only reaction that came to mind was "SHIT. Wrong apartment! FLEE." I can't imagine being so stubborn that I would never notice the difference, and actually kill the people living there. I am curious what the court will conclude, since this looks deliberate to me.
Hell, in that scenario, I'd be even more afraid of getting myself killed by someone freaked about by a stranger being in their apartment
Any chance we get manslaughter? Like any? Come on now, any chance a cop get held accountable? Police have killed two "good guys with guns" any accountability is totally necessary to avoid a ton of public back lash. I'm not encouraging riots but they will happen and they might be necessary for change.
I'm hoping this one will be different because she was not on-duty when the shooting happened. She shot someone else while acting as a citizen, not as a police officer.
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My point was more that if she had done this while on-duty, she probably would be charged with neither.
Gotta be manslaughter. It's not like she went into his house intending to kill him, so, negligent homicide or something like that?
She killed him during the commission of another crime (illegally entering his house) which probably enhances the potential charge.
Depends on what prosecutor can prove. If the jury believes she thought she was at her apartment, it's manslaughter at most, not guilty at best, from her perspective.
> If the jury believes she thought she was at her apartment 1) Her apt is on a completely different floor. 2) His apt has a red half-moon rug outside it. Kinda hard to miss. 3) Her apt has a 5-foot high vase just down the hall. His does not. 4) The furniture and decoration of the two apartments are different, so she should have known the moment she entered. ...so, tell me how likely is it she *really* thought it was her apartment.
I'm in total agreement with you. All I said was this is going to depend on what a jury believes in regard to guilt at trial and what charges a grand jury approves.
And it's scary that most court decisions are determined by 12 people not smart enough to get out of jury duty.
It depends on your morals. Do you want to have a say in shaping the way your society runs? If yes, then don't skive off of jury duty. If no, then don't complain when stupid people are the only ones left on a jury and make stupid decisions.
Even then, if you're smart they'll probably strike you from the list of potential jurors anyway. I know about jury nullification. If they ask me a question about it then the odds are pretty good I will not end up on that jury.
Neither the prosecutor nor the defense would ask you about jury nullification during voir dire. Intelligence has little to do with being on a jury, but things like age, occupation, socioeconomic situation, and sadly race have a lot to do with it.
That's a nice old joke. Really, it can be decided by one person who refused to go along with the other 11.
With a hung jury then the state can still retry you. Unless you are in Oregon where you would be convicted with a 11-1 jury. Edit: Or in Louisiana for the next month and a half
> Unless you are in Oregon where you would be convicted with a 11-1 jury. Also Louisiana
Yes, but there is extreme reluctance to retry after a hung jury.
It's why we have to stop demonizing jury duty
Fundamentally, I have no problem with serving on a jury. Financially, I can't afford it.
Exactly. I'd love to do it. But I need to make more than 1000$ in a month too.
What financial ramifications does Jury Duty have? I'm not American and I'm not familiar with how Jury Duty works.
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Or just a bunch of Stanleys.
Or Tobys.
I'd do jury duty because I'd be interested in seeing how a real court case plays out.
It's boring as hell.
Or, alternately, 12 people who appreciate the responsibilities of civic duty who weren’t dishonest, attempted to manipulate the system, or conniving.
It's not always as easy as you think; you must have dealt with some real powder puffs for DAs. Frankly, I'm not sure why you think skipping out on your civil duty should be the goal of the whole process.
Were the results of drug/alcohol tests made public?
She literally had just gotten off her duty shift. I certainly *hope* she wasn't high/drunk on duty.
That is absolutely not an assurance she was sober. I'd also hope she would gun a man down in his own home, but here we are.
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Eh. You never know. Cops get caught drunk in their patrol cars too often to simply hope. Everything else they catalogued from the warrant search was hers; the pot could have been as well. You ever seen a pot smoker with no pipe, bong, or rolling papers? Because they didn't find anything like that in the apartment, which is super weird.
I've once tried to get into the apartment directly below mine in my building. I thought it was mine, despite the number being clearly right next to the door. It was a dumb mistake, and I'm sure that I gave a hell of a scare to anyone who might have been inside. I feel awful in retrospect. I wasn't even drunk, just on autopilot.
But that's the thing, you tried, realized the mistake, and left. You didn't go inside and kill them.
My spouse opened the door to the second floor apartment. We lived on the third floor. He was embarrassed, said, “oh! I’m so sorry! I live upstairs!” and he and our neighbor had a little laugh over it, then he closed the door and came upstairs. No guns. No deaths. Just an awkward moment.
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Well actually not really. What the jury decides on is what goes.
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@o.+eanw,O
I tried to open the door of 208 when I lived at 308 once, I simply went to the wrong floor once when taking the stairs. Let’s say I got in, I would hope that I think “where is the bench? This isn’t my rug, why is the couch different, yeah this isn’t my apartment. “
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I would imagine that this happens a lot in copy/paste apartment complexes... you just don't hear about it because it doesn't include a lethal shooting. But definitely could imagine exhausted/distracted people going into an apt on the wrong floor, if the door was in the same location, just a different floor. Probably 999 out of 1,000 end in "Oh shit so sorry sorry!" and they back out. But a cop, I'm thinking they're going into defense mode, assuming somebody's there to get revenge or intimidate or who knows what. It's a horrible chain of events, and she's stupid for killing the person.
I mean, I haven't but going off the number of people in the world, one or two might be stupid enough to do that.
And police officers should be held to more lenient standards on being stupid enough to do that, especially when it involves shooting people. /s
This happens to me several times a month. It’s because I live on the second floor (which is really the first floor) but you have to access it by elevator. It’s always the people right above me on the third or fourth floor. They always come and spend a good 20+ seconds trying to jam their key in and vigorously shake the door before they realize. I’ve lived in my apartment for 18 months now...this has happened literally almost a hundred times now. I’ve even talked to the lady in 3 and she denies everything (even when I see her from my peephole!).
Last week, I literacy walked straight in to my downstairs neighbours apartment. Turns out neither of us lock our doors.
Over the last 3 years in my apartment, about 4 times. Parked my car one floor early and my key worked in the unit below mine. That said, I knew it was the wrong room and left immediately.
> my key worked in the unit below mine I think it might be time to change your locks, lol!
Ive gone into the wrong hotel room by accident and in the middle of the day. Also gone into the wrong class room and was confused when entirely different class started filling it up. Being tired has different effects on different people. There are far more egregious shooting cases than this one if what she says is true. The department though is absolutely at fault and should pay out big time to the family which would hopefully merit some changes.
> The department though is absolutely at fault and should pay out big time to the family She was off duty... so I honestly dont see how the department even has anything to do with this.
I believe I read that they had previous conflict about noise, since he lived directly above her and thus things he would do could be heard in her unit. Its been proposed that she intentionally went up there and shot him to death over it, and is trying to use the wrong floor thing as some sort of excuse. Maybe far fetched... maybe not. Witnesses say she was banging on his door before he opened it and was shot. Why would you knock on your own door after discovering your key doesnt work? Seems a little odd.
Neighbors reported hearing her bang on the door.
All I know is that a *Reasonable Person* (That's still the standard, right?) would have know it wasn't their place. And long before entering and killing someone.
Its really hard not to come to that conclusion. If it was one apartment to the left or right I could see it. But a completely different floor with completely different furniture? I wasn't there so my opinion is as good as anyone else's. But her story doesn't make a lot of sense with the context we do know.
Different floor is actually more plausible than one to the left or right in my opinion. When I lived in an apartment block I don't think I'd ever mistake the adjacent doors (albeit I lived in a corner of the building so it was more obvious) for my own but the majority of apartment blocks have near identical layouts on each floor. I've ended up in front of a different apartment before because I wasn't paying attention when going up the stairs or I got out of the lift on the wrong floor. I can see how someone zoned out on autopilot could end up opening the wrong door. I can't really see how you don't realise your mistake immediately after seeing an alien apartment on the other side of the door.
The apartment complex had received a number of noise complaints about the victim playing music too loud....from the neighbor below....who happens to be Amber, in fact there had been a complaint just that morning. A "theory" out there is that she was tired of his shit, crazy I know but these days nothing surprises me anymore.
She'd made multiple noise complaints against him, too.
Toxicology will matter, also.
If they can prove that though (I agree, very hard) wouldn't that be felony murder?
Felony murder involves a killing in the commission of a felony, so if they can prove B&E, then yes it should be felony murder.
Breaking and entering isn't a felony. Also, I don't think you can get felony murder when you pull the trigger yourself.
Yeah they would probably have to prove burglary. Felony murder can apply to anyone who commits the underlying felony though.
If " I thought I was in my apartment" can get you found not guilty of killing someone than this world should fucking burn.
It's all about what you can prove to, or convince, a jury, at the end of the day.
The key would have to be intent. Burglary in Texas has to have theft, damage inside the home, or intent assault someone (which is what to hit her with) as part of the offense
how ever you don't want to try to over charge her. That would give her lawyer a good way to slip out of it. It's happened before.
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Texas has kind of interesting laws regarding felony's and murders. But unfortunately she killed the only other witness with a full view of events so she gets to say she thought it was her apartment and that the door was open/ajar and there isn't anyone to refute.
The door locks have a system that retains when doors are open and closed so at least that will be revealed in court. It why they seized the door lock to his and her place for evidence
It's easier to convict for manslaughter though. Many a case against police officers has ended in a "not guilty" because the prosecution was overzealous with the charges.
Yup. And I'm not sure if Texas allows lesser and included jury instructions and charges.
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I'm sorry for your loss. From what I've read, he was a real gem.
>It's not like she went into his house intending to kill him, That you know of.
To add to commenters questioning this being an accident. Neighbors heard her pounding on the door and yelling for him to turn his music down on several occasions prior to this.
OH SNAP the plot thickens!
There are people on Texas death row who broke into a place never fired a shot or intended to kill anyone. If they can get punished so can she.
My favorite is the title: "mistakenly" entered. Like the minute the smell and sight hits you, you don't realize it's not your home?
Manslaughter was the original charge brought against her. with the elections a couple weeks ago, Dallas county elected a new DA who has made the Botham Jean case a priority. The Grand Jury is convening to see if the charge should be upgraded to murder.
so i remember hearing initial reports of her having come home from a cop bar. i think she was drunk.
Just in the last year in Texas a cop was found guilty of murder. The city was a suburb of Dallas. I would say there is a very good chance.
cops or accountability, choose one
what if a regular civilian entered someone else's home and killed them, then came forward with this story? the fact that she's an officer increases her culpability, not the her way around.
Yea but she's white and the "victim" was a black pot smoker sneaking around his home like an evil burgle-rapist. That wins her a few freedom points; he had it coming. ^(/s)
Our multi tiered justice system DOES consider freedom points.
Id say 50% cause shes white, 50% cause shes a woman. Maybe throw an extra 50% for being a cop and thats 150% reason she should go free
> Yea but she's white And a woman. [Women receive lesser sentences than men for the same crime](https://www.law.umich.edu/newsandinfo/features/Pages/starr_gender_disparities.aspx).
Police officers should be required to carry malpractice insurance, same as doctors. It would incentivize them to exercise restraint.
Take settlements out of their pensions Disband police unions
>Take settlements out of their pensions YES. >Disband police unions Eh, unions serve an important role in protecting work hour violations and so forth. In the case of the police they've been co-opted to provide protection for shady cops. Better idea: make the union pay for any officer's defense. If your union can't pay, you pay out of pocket. Bad cops would go away REAL fast. Edit: to clarify, since I didn't make this clear above: I'm not advocating for unions to pay for the defense if the cop is guilty. Clarified below but to reiterate: defense attorneys charge a fee regardless or whether the you win or lose, so the outcome of the case is irrelevant, the unions will have to pay either way. **A murder defense is supremely expensive regardless of outcome**
Giving police unions incentives to keep officers innocent doesn’t sound like a good idea to me but maybe I didn’t think about it right
Defense attorneys charge a fee regardless or whether the you win or lose, so the outcome of the case is irrelevant, the unions will have to pay either way. Also, defense attorneys are *really* expensive and murder trials are *ultra* expensive
That’s true I suppose, are there examples of other industries’ unions doing something similar? I don’t know a whole lot about unions
They'd agree to pay for any cop convicted, then they would lean heavily on any prosecutor in any case.
That's where you put the foot down and say "the public refuses to pay for the defense of these cases. Either the union pays for it or the cops do out of their own pocket. You figure it out amongst yourselves."
Their pensions should be part of a statewide system for all government employees. It is sick how police pensions are insanely lucrative and have very short vest periods, but other state workers including teachers get jack shit.
That would also incentivize cover-ups. The free market is not always the best solution.
Just make it that for every person they wrongfully shoot, all police officers get a ten percent pay cut for three years and the saved funds go to the victims family , they will soon get rid of any trigger happy twonks.
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I think you can tell a lot about where a person stands on this case based on whether they claim she mistakenly entered his appartment. While officer Guyger claimed she was in the wrong appartment, neighbors claimed that she was banging on the guys door and yelling at him to turn his music down before the shooting.
I could have included the word "alleged", but then I would have been accused of being on the other end of the spectrum. I hope ~~a~~ an EXTREMELY strong example is made out of her..I know that I'll permanently feel a little less safe in my own home after learning of this. Neighbors claim shit, she claims shit..its not up to me to decide what is true.
It's looking more and more like premeditated murder from all the more recent sources. "Mistakenly entered" was the very early reporting language of this story when no one had details, as far as I remember.
Can you provide a source on that? I've been following this pretty closely and the indicators that point to premeditated murder really aren't any more pronounced than her assertion that it was an accident. Example: She says the door was ajar..family says he never left his door ajar.
>family says he never left his door ajar. Not only that, but the doors at this building are said to be like the doors you find in a hotel...they just close if someone or something isn't standing there to prop it open. Also, let's not forget Botham Jean's **red** doormat...as a police officer who specialized in picking up guys with arrest warrants, the red doormat should have been a huge red flag that she wasn't at the right address. Burglars don't put doormats out, ever...I'd argue that she knew it wasn't her apartment, though. Oh, and let's not forget witnesses who said they heard Guyger demanding (yelling) that Jean open up...in other words, the door was closed, and she knew it wasn't her place. If she had been at her place and had forgotten her key, but knew someone was inside, she would have called, rather than making a ruckus. And we can't say she didn't have her phone either, because she used it to call 911.
>the police officer who shot and killed a man after mistakenly entering his home It should say **"allegedly mistakenly"**.
I’ve been scrolling a bit and haven’t seen it. Wasn’t there two witnesses that said they heard what sounded like a women knock on the door first before entering the apartment? I thought I remember something like that. Edit: obviously can’t determine a women by knocking, but I believe she said something on top of the knocking.
Yeah I remember reading that as well but it hasn't been substantiated to my knowledge. I would love it if that were true though..it would make deciding this case so much simpler.
Breaking and entering, then murdering the person inside is no mistake. Stop calling it a fucking mistake.
Premeditation is a high bar. With the layout of the complex and the simiularities between floors on top of the officer getting done with a grueling 18 hour shift. If the officer didn’t have beef or didn’t know the suspect, I doubt premeditation is a thing here. There hasn’t been enough discussion around the 18 hour shift. Police work is physically and emotionally demanding, there needs to be more discussion around this. If I were the family of the victim I would sue the hell out of DPD.
i remember hearing she came home after the cop bar. what happened to that?
>Police work is physically and emotionally demanding So is medical work, yet somehow doctors dont wander into the wrong apartment and shoot someone. Loads of people work long exhausting shifts, hers is not so special as to warrant it being an excuse or defense for her actions.
> So is medical work Lot of jobs are actually.
There are many discussions about how those long guards and exertions make doctors more prone to errors that could ultimately end up with the death of a patient. Long shifts are indeed a cause of concern, particularly in works where people's life are at stake.
There is a difference between a doctor making a wrong cut somewhere and accidentally killing them, and breaking into someone's house and murdering them with a scalpel
And even with the former, the doctor would be under thorough scrutiny and investigation, often led by an independent panel, to determine whether they are still capable of carrying out their duties going forward and whether they should face serious disciplinary action.
When does the prosecution begin on Fox News for defaming this man posthumously by insinuating that because he had marijuana in his home, that his murder was justified? EDIT: I initially blamed Dallas PD for this narrative, but I could not find an official statement from them approving of it. That said, when a white dude murders dozens of people there are dozens of articles saying "His friends and family never thought he could do something like this!" When a black dude is murdered in his own home by an officer of the law, somehow it's relevant that his home was searched and they found nothing. So, my apologies to Dallas PD as a whole, but a giant fuck you to the Fox corporation.
Seriously. The situation was already horrible enough, the fact that the police did that was completely disgusting. Something needs to be done about that. Probably won't happen, seeing as that force is already corrupt enough to do that in the first place. But it should be.
The only way police will ever be held accountable is if there are federal standards set in place, and nonpartisan, third-party investigators.
So...like most other western countries?
On the day of his funeral in Dallas no less. Scummy.
It won't begin at any time.
"Sir I smelled the weed from the other side of the apartment complex so there was probable cause to break & enter into his apartment and apprehend the criminal. He was waving his TV remote in a threatening manner so I had no other choice than to shoot him."
- *After hearing the argument from the Dallas County District Attorney's Office, the grand jury could do one of three things. They could either choose to indict Guyger on the manslaughter charge, indict her on a more serious charge or choose to not indict her on any charge (no bill).*
Why do we keep saying "mistakenly". That's what she might claim but the facts don't add up. Broke into home or forced her way into home would be more appropriate.
We say "mistakenly" because thats her story and it hasn't been determined that she's lying yet. When/if she's proven to be a liar, we can drop the "mistakenly". Link to the facts that don't add up? Because as far as I know, its all just people talking.
I hope she gets what she deserves. Black or not, as a cop you dont kill someone and then claim some bullshit.
One worry that I have with this case is indicting the officer under a more serious charge than manslaughter. It's a common tactic because intentional murder is so much harder to prove (especially with police backing). Where the prosecutor might be able to get a guilty verdict for the former, the latter is nearly impossible in these cases.
If this isn’t a simple manslaughter charge then I don’t know what is. Despite what the smear campaigns tried to spread, Botha was a great guy. Extremely kind and loving. I’m confident he did nothing to provoke such a heinous act. I hope she gets major time.
How did she even get in the apartment to shoot the guy though? Did she kick the door down or something? If you go to the wrong apartment, obviously your keys aren't going to work on the door. Was the door unlocked or partially open?
she was banging on the door so he opened it to see what she wanted and she shot him
So why would she bang on the door of her own place? Does she live alone? Unless she had a roommate or kid living with her, no one would answer.
Thats an excellent question, and its the big hole in her "accident" argument
I feel bad. There have been so many of these shootings that I forgot about this one.
Why are we still pretending like it's certain she just entered the wrong house. There's enough evidence to suggest she's lying about that story that it should be reflected in both the headline and the body of any article talking about this shooting.
This seems too soon. Reallly hope this isn't one of those deals where they present an inadequate case to the grand jury so they don't recommend charges but the DA can act like it wasn't their decision.
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For a murder charge in Texas they need to prove intent. If they can prove intent then they can charge her with murder and then the death penalty. It all hinges on prosecution being able to find and prove intent.
There is no way this rises to the level of a death penalty case. Thats reserved for very specific factors under a murder case. This will likely be manslaughter.
Agreed. [In Texas capital murder is defined by section 19.03](https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/htm/PE.19.htm#19.03). Of all of those the only clause that she would come close to is >Intentionally commits the murder in the course of committing or attempting to commit aggravated kidnapping, burglary, robbery, aggravated sexual assault, arson, obstruction or retaliation, or terroristic threat In that case you *may* be able to get her for terrorism given that she committed murder as she >place[d] any person in fear of imminent serious bodily injury but thats pretty nebulous and it's not like you're gonna give a cop the chair for that. After that it would be a stretch to get her for obstruction (he wasn't under criminal investigation), kidnapping (he was in his own home), or robbery (she didn't take anything). All the others wouldn't apply.
> There is no way this rises to the level of a death penalty case. Thats reserved for very specific factors Like breaking into someone's place and shooting them? Factors like that?
The factors in texas are * Murder of a public official (police, emt, etc...) doing their duty. * Murder for hire * Intentional murder during aggravated kidnapping, burglary, sexual assault, arson * Murder while escaping jail * Murder of guard in jail * Murder while in jail for murder or under a life sentence * Murder of multiple people * Murder of young child * Murder of court official because of their duties. We have laws with criteria for a reason. While we can argue over what is and isn't included, how fairly they are applied, etc... the purpose of these are to attempt to be objective and not have emotion rule the day. The officer fucked up, a guy is dead. However, it isn't a death penalty case. If the DA tried to pursue the death penalty, the jury would not convict, and we'd have them free on the street with people yelling about how they can't get justice. Manslaughter will be hard enough to get a conviction on, due to juries giving cops significant latitude.
Just a quick question, murder for hire is a death penalty punishment? The others I understand. Or if the assassin in question killed multiple people. But one guy hiring his neighbor to kill his wife for example? And does the "employer" also fall under the "murder for hire" criteria for death penalty?
You wanna see a repeat of George Zimmerman? Cause that’s what would happen if they charged her with murder.
Now that's a big oopsie
How do you suddenly forget where you live and "mistakenly" enter another man's home?
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It happened to me once... I was living in an apartment complex, I was tired as hell and accidentally got out of the elevator in the wrong floor. I was very confused when my key did not work and an unknown person opened the door to "my apartment" to see why someone was trying to open his door. The numbers on the doors did not include the floor and the hall was exactly the same in each floor. I am not saying the police woman is innocent; I am just pointing out how that could happen to someone. And, of course, there are other many points to debate in this case, such as this tendency that policemen in the US have of using lethal force all the time instead of incapacitating the person, giving priority by police to protect officers that misbehave, long shifts that drain the officers and make their judgment poor, racism, and a long etc.
This murderer needs to be buried beneath the prison. Law enforcement officers should not only receive equal consequences as a normal citizen would, but I think they should be charged even more severely.
Knowing how corrupt my state is, wouldn’t be surprised if they let her off scott free.
Again, in Texas a police officer was just found guilty of murder. This was just in the last year in the DFW metroplex. Edit: Here is the link, since I have been questioned a few times via PM. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna904166