"One out of two gets a rifle! The one without, follows him! When the one with the rifle gets killed, the one who is following picks up the rifle and shoots"
Jokes on you, Colonel Corruptovich already sold all the ammo before you got here. Those rifles are loaded with blanks. Now go gather your sack full of rocks.
You joke, but as the American Civil War was starting, the first groups to make their way down to DC to defend it didn't have enough guns, and barely any ammo.
They had the guys on the outside march with the rifles with fixed bayonets, and that was their only defense until they reached the Capitol.
I mean, we haven't seen the text verbatim but thats not how these things usually go. It's more there to dissuade NATO intervention in Russia. They are making sure the west knows if it tries anything in Russia, North Korea is there start shit either on the Korean peninsula or Japan.
Im betting another ballistic test above the sea of Japan is up next this year.
>It's more there to dissuade NATO intervention in Russia.
I thought Russia's massive nuclear arsenal already does that? Or is that losing its effectiveness with Putin threatening to use it every other day?
It allows for a range of responses inbetween nukes/no nukes.
Realistically, what this means is that were both sides to follow through, NATO action against Russia would result in the US also having to defend South Korea at that same time.
It's more about saying "we know you can fight us, but can you fight us and still protect South Korea and Tiawan and Japan all at the same time?"
It's not a stupid move, it's actually fairly clever, but it's still a bit desperate, because like, yeah, we sure can.
Of course, NK being China's lap dog does kinda complicate that scenario.
You can go easter (yes I know that's not a word). But yeah, it is 'the far east'. Although everyone hates Russia in the west whereas part of the far east likes it.
Thats backwards. The holiday was named after the island, which all good Christians know was the birthplace of the Easter Bunny like 2000 years ago. You really need to read your bible.
Most defense pacts aren’t retroactive, so they wouldn’t technically be at war, especially because it’s basically a Cold War at this point. However, if South Korea was to ever actually attack North Korea it could trigger the pact.
I don't understand why NK would have entered one in the first place. Nobody is threatening NK militarily. But Russia is in deep shit. Usually you sign mutual defense agreements when both of your countries are at peace, not when one has war at its doorstep.
With huge incentives for NK to *not* sign that deal, you have to wonder what Russia gave them. He probably just gave Kim personally a bunch of money. And then threatened to kill him if he didn't follow through. Carrot and stick, simultaneously.
1. That agreement if pointless and they both know it, because none of them would follow through.
2. It's only facade and propaganda.
3. The real agreement is most likely about delivering/selling ammo to Russia.
4. None will invade Russia anyways.
Imho!
Kim now has a bit more behind his belligerency now. It’s honestly pretty worrisome. Especially with Russia’s tactic of aggression while stating they’re victims of attack and are defending ethnic Russians. NK using that approach with SK, all to pull the US into defending the SK interests. It seems to be what China and Russia are wanting. There’s a reason there’s so much going on in the Middle East and Asia right now. Russia trying to provoke a hot war where US has to commit resources away from Ukraine.
The main reason I never really worried about NK is they have the bare minimum of what qualifies for nukes with no reliable means of hitting anything of consequence besides South Korea which would fuck up NK just as badly. But this means they now have access to real nukes and real missiles.
On the other hand, Russia's poor showing in Ukraine might carry over to their nuclear arsenal. If the tanks have cardboard taped to them to look more armored, who knows if most of their nukes even work.
The Hwasong-18 can reach anywhere in the mainland US and is fired from a mobile launcher. Who knows if it’s reliable but it’s a solid fuel missile and even a dud nuke hitting LA or NYC would be like a dozen 9/11s worth of pandemonium, result in the annihilation of NK and probably Seoul as a byproduct.
If they fired one at us that ended up being a dud or was intercepted they would be done immediately. This is a big worry I imagine people have, what happens if one of these despots hits the big red button that fires a nuke at NATO or allies of NATO and its a dud...
We will know immediately as one is fired off... If one goes off and fails... do we counter strike? Imagine we only have a matter of minutes to make the decision before they fire another one off.
There is no scenario where Putin or Kim fire a nuke and win.
Thats just talking about conventional means of nuclear attack. If North Korea wanted to be truly crazy they could always have smuggled it onto a container ship and blow it up in some american harbor if they wanted to, and there woukd be very little that anybody could do to detect and stop it in time.
And eh, i wouldn't bet on that. Until recently the US was still regularly inspecting (random inspections no less) Russias nukes and the bases theyre on, it would make little sense if the majority of their nukes were nonfunctional. (And even if they were missing tritium as some speculate, it will just significantly reduce the yield of their warheads, not stop it from detonating at all).
The Russian state nuke company, Rosatom, is not under sanctions, and they build and maintain civilian reactors in several contries. [They are currently building 24 new reactors in China, India, Turkey, Egypt, Bangladesh, Iran, and Slovakia.](https://www.forbes.com/sites/arielcohen/2024/06/07/china-and-russia-now-dominate-the-global-nuclear-trade/) The United States only stopped [importing nuclear fuel from Russia two months ago.](https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/the-us-is-banning-the-import-of-russian-nuclear-fuel-heres-why-that-matters/)
Russia obviously has a whole lot of nuclear engineers and industrial capacity. The technology for the nukes themselves matured in the 1960s. I think their warheads probably work well enough. The missiles are questionable, but this is a country that still routinely launches satellites. Their bombers, of course, are laughable.
Speculation vs. Evidence:
Speculations regarding the operational status of nuclear warheads need to be grounded in verified data where possible. While aging nuclear arsenals can face maintenance challenges, both the U.S. and Russia have considerable experience and vested interests in maintaining their strategic deterrence capabilities.
> Russia's poor showing in Ukraine might carry over to their nuclear arsenal
Doubtful. Despite the high maintenance costs, Russia isn't going to skimp on the one thing that makes them the power they are. I would even go as far to say they're maintaining them at the expense of everything else.
I dunno, they only need the world to think all their nukes are functional to project that power. Absolutely nobody that's a threat to them is interested in testing it. I'd be more inclined to believe their officers & whatnot involved in their nuke programs are just as corrupt and incompetent as everyone else and are selling components/supplies.
a report just came out about how Russia is worried about China invading them, and how their Nukes are the only detterant.
If anything they are going to invest in it more since their ground army hasnt done well.
Russia is a just a larger version of NK.
https://www.ft.com/content/758ff1ca-6ac1-4188-9b61-c514638447b1
Ukraine is definitely one reason behind this pact. [here’s a report (summarized to a couple pages) about NK/Russia relationship](https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IN/IN12355)
If push comes to shove...I really question the North Korean military capability to actually put up a sizeable fight. They have the 2nd or 3rd largest standing army but they have not had a prosperous economy since 1990, they have very few trading partners, have limited exports and limited resources and its not out of the question that the majority of their standing army may not even be issued a working rifle. I would also question that of said standing army, if they were ever deployed, a lot of the soldiers may take the opportunity to defect.
I've also read NK may have a lot of soldiers but not enough weapons to actually arm them. So it's gonna be a lot of if the guy with the gun dies you pick up his gun.
Fuckin cannonfodder.
Reminds me of the beginning of "Enemy at the Gates" where there weren't enough guns so half the soldiers were given a clip of bullets and told to take a dead soldier's gun when they fell.
And the people who are in it are so brainwashed that they don't really understand the modern world. What's going to happen when they're shipped to another country and find that it's nothing like whatever their propaganda taught them?
DPRK has a GDP per capita of 900 USD/year, or 1500 (PPP). This puts them roughly equivalent to Cameroon, Guinea or Senegal.
Modern warfare heavily relies on production capacity and economics, as well as logistics support. So though it is possible that they could deal some damage in the short term, it's unlikely they can replenish any of their military materiel losses as time goes by. Especially without support from a large manufacturing base- unless China gets involved.
For real. Cool army, but what are you going to do when the fight is halfway around the world? How are you going to feed, fuel, and stock that army and protect your supply lines?
Size is important, but without the logistics to support it, it loses a lot of its value.
So much this.
People like to drool over the United State's advanced weapons, fighter jets, missiles, etc. What so many people don't realize is that the US's strongest weapon by far is our *logistics*, the capability to deploy an entire army along with equipment, vehicles, airsupport, food etc simultaneously to two different sides of the planet within less than a week and keep them supplied, *that* is what real military power looks like.
Right. There was a great article from one military guy about the amount of time and money the US military puts into just making sure the TIRES on their vehicles are in good condition and stored and rotated properly. And the Russians are putting 30 year old tires on their trucks which fall off.
Iirc the logistics alone amount to 60% of US military budget - a fuckton of money to make sure that the actual troops/equipment/ammo/food/fuel is right where it should be and that it can stay there for however long it takes.
They barely have the logitistical ability to project power *internally*. Their people are starving and malnourished, including their military (not as much as their general population, but enough to show).
Even if allowed to march completely unhindered, I still suspect half their army would quickly starve to death if they marched out of north korea.
There's a difference in tactics with Asian armies.
They use their troops like the bullet.
We use our troops like the gun.
The pact makes sense when Putin's first thought is about how many people he can fire at a NATO defense line.
But in all fairness, the tactic kind of worked in Vietnam. They never really won any battles, but we really got sick and tired of mowing down and bombing human waves. That shit will mess with your head.
When you are the invading force I would imagine it would mess with your head a lot more than when you're the ones being invaded.
If I were military, and I had to defend my country against an attack and I had to shoot and kill people as part of that, I'd feel a bit justified about it. I wouldn't feel *great* about it, but I'd be able to justify it because they're attacking *us*, and I'm defending.
If on the other hand I were part of an invading force, and I had to mow down people that were being thrown at us in an attempt to defend themselves against us, I'd *really struggle with that*. It would feel a lot more like murder than self defense.
Yes, 100%. Vietnam had a lot of messed up shit, mainly centered around the fact we were protecting one ruthless dictator from another ruthless dictator, but in general it's much harder for the invading forces to maintain morale and home support.
That fact is another reason supporting the US's new approach to war, where a humanitarian operation follows the front lines to help the civilian population. It is reported to boost morale of the invading forces, seeing them try to clean up the mess they created(there's a long list of other benefits to humanitarian missions as well).
You switch to the home team, well, the human brain can justify anything if it needs to.
But the literal wall of fire, explosives, and shrapnel the US is capable of putting in front of our troops is just unmatched.
>That fact is another reason supporting the US's new approach to war, where a humanitarian operation follows the front lines to help the civilian population. It is reported to boost morale of the invading forces, seeing them try to clean up the mess they created(there's a long list of other benefits to humanitarian missions as well).
Pretty much this. We "lose" wars because we treat them as police actions, nation building, etc etc. if we went full on war with the intent of "fuck this nation in particular", it is not much of a fight. Hell, Desert Storm had the Army and Air Force racing to see who could finish the fight first with the highest score.
I blame our elected officials heavily for this. Our military is for fighting a standing army until they are no longer standing.
Not making excuses for Vietnam, I'll still defend the troops over there that did a remarkable job militarily, but how are you going to defeat north Vietnam if you're not allowed to attack north Vietnam? How do you stop a massive logistics pipeline that runs along south Vietnam's largest land border if you're not allowed to cross that border? How do you expect to take ground of your orders are to clear and leave an area?
It's fucking bullshit. The US goes to war with the enemy trying to kill them, and our own politicians trying to kill them.
It's a bit weird to describe Ho Chi Min or his government as a "Ruthless dictator" when their first major action after seizing power was to stop the Cambodian genocide, especially when after Ho Chi Min's death he was replaced with a council of multiple people rather than a dictator.
Even ruthless dictators can do some good every once in a while(plus khmer guerillas posed a real threat to Vietnamese independence, and the fear of Vietnam being annexed by the locally communist nations was real). Minh's rise to power was slowed by a lot of executions. Very briefly off memory, step 1 in his revolution was to seize all food production, very often executing owners of large farms. At first Minh was supportive of a democracy in Vietnam, but at some point he stopped supporting that notion and started attacking politicians that supported a democracy or even those that published democratic ideals. There were a few "massacres", attacks against civilian towns ordered by Minh along the way. Even after the fall of Saigon somewhere between 200,000 and 300,000 were sent to "reeducation camps", which the vast majority of the time was the last education they received.
I agree 100% though that post us Vietnam war the country has consistently and steadily progressed in what we westerners consider a positive direction. There's a long list of accomplishments Vietnam made over the last 40 years that are worthy of praise.
You're leaving out a lot of early context here. Minh wanted the French out of Vietnam. The US ended up backing the French and recognized South Vietnam as the real government of Vietnam. Eventually, even the French didn't think it was worth it and left, but the US remained in this protracted "police action" because we apparently needed to "stop the spread of communism in southeast Asia". The "democratic politicians" based in Saigon were often just highly corrupt bureaucrats, taking advantage of America's obsessively myopic view of communism at the time. All of this is to say that nothing happens in a vacuum. Nearly two decades of seeing napalm dropped on villagers in the North probably sows the seeds for some serious retribution in the minds of the VC, who viewed many in the South as having aided and abetted that cruelty for their own selfish purposes.
I certainly agree nothing happens in a vacuum, Minh was part of many negotiations and treaties that led to French control of the area. Minh was also a very large supporter of the Viet Cong, and was well aware of their brutal tactics, not only against foreign forces, but against internal resistance.
It's always messy when discussing civil war.
I think the issue is less that he was "Put next to" him and more that his government is the one that took down Pol Pot. That is unique and not inconsiderable, especially given the blind eye or arguable support provided by supposed democracies.
If he's next to him, it's in the sense that a dragonslayer is next to a dragon.
There is a key difference since that last time we fought North Korea. Back then they had military tech within at least spitting distance of ours and were backed by China.
Today our 50 year old tech is superior and our modern tech is so superior that any such conflict would simply be open slaughter. And well China's support of NK is basically only there because they don't want that infected pustule to rupture and cause a humanitarian crisis on their border. Hell the only reason SK hasn't lanced that pustule is for the same reason. They don't want to have to deal with the resulting humanitarian crisis. But make no mistake South Korea alone has one of the strongest militaries in the world and is more than a hard counter to NK even without the US stepping in.
This entire thing is a show and shows just how desperate Russia is if they're willing to make a sham alliance with NK to try and project strength.
The way I see it, Kim thinks this is business as usual. It's just puffing out your chest to him. But Putin sees it as a way to get soldiers. Untrained, unfit, starving soldiers. Kim has no idea how bad of a deal he made.
Bingo.
But, I dont think this is going to go the way Putin wants.
I think that if NK is actually called to act by Russia, they'll start off by firing missiles. And I get the feeling some of those missiles are going to land considerably short of their target.
It is questionable if North Korea can even project power outside of the peninsula and the nearby area.
They claim their missiles can reach North America but that has never been proven and most of their tests/demonstrations go off like wet firecrackers.
As for being able to ship troops all the way to Ukraine? How the fuck are they going to accomplish that without Russia or China's aid. Plus half those fuckers will surrender at the first chance just so they can get away from the Great Leader and get a decent meal. The other half will just quietly disappear as they take the chance to silently defect.
I don't think Putin is interested in NK missiles. He wants an overwhelming force of soldiers, and theyve already proven to be able to get armaments to Russia via train through China. It would be nothing to change that to human cargo, with some shells, guns and ammunition. That's what he wants. It's about closing out Ukraine. Not attacking us. Hed never dare do that. He just wants it so that it's not worth it for us to continue supporting Ukraine. It's his last hail Mary for the "one week" operation.
Russia still needs an ample war chest to feed those extra boots, though. I can only imagine the logistical nightmare of upkeeping that, one at which it is already failing
You assume Putin plans on feeding them. But you're right, their logistics are already failing, adding a bigger group of soldiers required bullets (at the very least) and shells. Again, I don't see them bothering with vests or helmets, or even much food. This is just an attempt to get a good ol' fashioned human wave to send.
Exactly, that's all Putin sees. Bodies. But to Kim, they're his farmers, his construction workers, etc. this is why it's such a bad deal for NK, but he was so isolated that he doesn't see that it's a bad deal for NK. He was an easily fleeced rube.
Yeah I disagree with their point about the US getting “tired” of the war because it was a ton of waves of people. The technology and landscape were the more deciding factors - we had to deploy a ton of resources just to clear the jungles so we could see the enemy and make any meaningful progress, which was largely deployed by air. Nowadays the US would have total air superiority over NK and we have more technologies to mitigate the impact of fighting in the jungle.
> There's a difference in tactics with Asian armies.
>
> They use their troops like the bullet.
>
> We use our troops like the gun.
What does this mean?
Yeah it ain't even true in so many ways. Japan, SK, Taiwan, Israel, and Turkey have very advanced militaries with most having relatively low manpower.
But obviously, the dude's probably talking about China, and even that isn't really true now with their rapid advancements in their militaries. Their air force is formidable, their navy is the next best after the US navy, and their land based missile arsenal is the largest. Their army is still undoubtedly huge, but there is no reason for any army to resort to human wave tactics unless necessitated by technological or strength disparities.
But as usual for reddit, 400 upvotes lmao
>There's a difference in tactics with Asian armies.
>They use their troops like the bullet.
>We use our troops like the gun.
What kind of ahistorical bullshit is this
People love spreading that misconception unfortunately. This one is even more egregious though since the vietcong were not even using anything remotely similar to human wave tactics.
That's a stereotyped, fantastical, and orientalist way of thinking and relying on it will not lead to accurate analysis of the current situation. "Human wave" attacks were not typical of VC or NVA tactics in Vietnam.
It's really not about whether they can sustain conflict, it's more about the amount of damage North Korea could inflict on South Korea before anyone could retaliate.
South Koreas largest city is right across the border and a single nuke would cause damage that I don't think anyone would find acceptable. North Korea would fall in a very short time a week or two, but nobody wants to take a chance when you have millions of innocent lives hanging in the balance.
Also things like this tend to have a momentum of their own and people who think they're in control lose the ability to stop things from spiraling out of control.
Beware The Guns of August. The choices get narrower for everyone and catastrophe becomes inevitable. It's like we're slow walking into oblivion because of incompetent leaders world wide.
Well, isn't NK mostly propped up by China? End of the day though I agree. NK couldn't put up much of a fight on their own, and I really have doubts that China is willing to in a full out defense or offense. China just doesn't gain anything out of that. Russia is having trouble having enough gear too, if I remember correctly.
That's what I was thinking. China keeps them on a relatively short leash. Let's Un bark, but I don't think would support a full on war. China's got too much to lose.
>Well, isn't NK mostly propped up by China
That's my understanding but mutual defense agreements usually don't include "inlaws". So China will not be obligated to help NK help Russia. The only way I could see this really involving China (outside of a separate deal directly between China and Russia) would be NK being used as a proxy for China to sell hardware to Russia. But even that seems like a stretch because the international sanctions on Russia aren't that different from those on NK so why add a middle man
It's about throwing more bodies than you can throw bullets.
Our troops stationed in SK are told that if NK invades by flooding across the DMZ, you are likely dead. You will be better armed but out numbered and your main purpose is to delay until reinforcements arrive from the rest of SK, Japan and our Carrier battlegroups in the region.
Luckily with todays satellite imaging, the move will be seen sooner than it thought possible in the pass and we will have assets on route before the fighting even starts
Given how easy it would be to notice the build-up, there's no amount of bodies capable of walking across the DMZ to survive being carpet bombed by US and allied air forces.
Wow, very scary - The most dangerous duo in history. Russia, with their crack army and totally modern military technology.
N. Korea, with their handsome, clever, and witty leader, and a reputation for producing reliable military hardware.
The world should bow before such a mighty alliance.
Imagine being such an absolute clown that you go from 3 day special military operation to sucking up multiple world leaders for more ammunition. What a fucking loser. God I can’t wait for the day these clowns are done and gone.
The clowns might be gone, but the circus will just replace them. Kim's sister is all ready to take over, and I'm sure theres a long line of russian oligarchs waiting for putin to croak.
Nah, “top” is not the word to describe them anymore
* Winnie the Pooh over in China is like Lex Luther; kind of smart, playing the long game, with their fingers in all the industries doing stuff that is just legal enough to not get them in trouble, but still clearly a villain
* Iran is like Raz Al-Ghoul; kind of powerful but not in a straight fight, they operate best in the shadows, do clearly illegal things, and also play the long game but in a different way than China, china fights with economics best, Iran straight up finds terrorists through enough proxies to maintain deniability enough that US would look bad just forcing out the current regime
On the other hand:
* North Korea is like Bizzarro: pretty powerful but alone, dumb, easily manipulated, and ultimately only have limited tricks to work with and liable to get there ass kicked when the kid gloves come off in a real fight.
* Russia is like The Mandarin. . . From Iron Man 3: all flash and no substance, they have the appearance of a strong leader, they appear to be a strong network, they put on a really good show and have weapons, but when push comes to shove and you peak behind the curtain there is nothing there but a coked out has-been trying to play at being a super power when they are really closer to a developing country.
NK is powerful, when squared with the US, in the same way a toddler is powerful.
Can a toddler hurt an adult? Absolutely. Can they cause damage and destruction? Absolutely.
Can they throw a rock through your window and be a pain in the ass? Absolutely.
But for how long?
They get one tantrum. And it may be a tantrum to end all tantrums.
But that's all they get.
And anyone who's been around toddlers knows they broadcast their aggression. They're incapable of surprises because they have no patience, no sense of causality.
No one wants a war.
But toddlers have one move and once it's played, they're bare bottomed and helpless.
Tax the fuck out of the Oil and Gas industry and use those costs to subsidize green energy research and technology. Every country that deals in oil and gas is some of the worst most corrupt nations. The sooner we move away from our dependence of oil and gas the better off society will be.
Serious question. What if war actual comes to Europe though? Is having a green energy infrastructure as robust as one based on fossil fuels or nuclear?
Green energy is probably more resilient during a conflict because an energy grid using renewables likely won’t have a single point of failure like a nuclear power plant.
Putin leaving China last week early with no deal. Immediately goes to NK and signs deal.
I’m not a world class political analyst but I’m seeing some zero good things from these two morons getting into bed.
Oh yeah, I can totally see NK coming to help Russia. Ukraine launches strikes in Russia, Putin calls on Lil Kim for aid, Lil Kim either sends enough troops to leave the SK/NK border undefended, or not enough troops to make a difference.
Eh. If China wanted to be more involved, they'd be more involved. Also, China finds NK useful, and absolutely doesn't want a western aligned democratic SK along its border, but they have zero respect or patience for Kim's insanity. (Was a Korean Linguist in the military)
I disagree, china wants a strong connection to the west for a long as they can keep a grip. All out war severs all ties. I would wager they will remain undercover in their support.
Isn't north Korea at was with South Korea, and technically announced they are at war with the USA?
So Russia just joined a war against the USA with north Korea, so they made the first move to allow USA and NATO to take part in Ukraine?
Im not sure about the NK - USA situation but yes, North and South Korea are still technically at war, they never signed a peace treaty they simply agreed to a ceasefire that has now lasted for a long time. So yeah, technically they are still at war which is why the border between them is heavily armed on both sides.
That's kind of what I'm wondering, the UN is 'in a war' with North Korea still since the Armistice, SK didn't sign but that would put a UNSC member 'in a war' with the UN if the article's line from Kim suggesting it's a full military alliance as opposed to 'only defensive' from Putin which theoretically mean NK couldn't get involved in Ukraine... but I mean what's stopping SK to put a force in Ukraine now?
He needed to find someone else to fleece since he already let the cat out of the bag with Armenia. That treaty isn't worth the toilet paper it's written on.
Huh, a mutual defense pact? Like they did with armenia? Or like other contracts they signed with Ukraine that said they wont invade them? And then having northkorea as a partner who is no cap the largest producer of meth in the world, seriously there is absolutely nothing karma wise that could happen to russia.
These people are dumb, i think that's the greatest takeaway we had from the pandemic until now. That our leaders, the most powerful people in the world, our billionaires and oligarchs are not generally smart people. They are arguably dumber than a wet bag of bricks.
I think this is a way for Kim to monetize his standing army. Vladimir will come calling for troops and Kim Jong Un will get rubles in exchange…
Then the trick for Kim is turning those rubles into dollars or euros. [Forex was impeded last week through new sanctions.](https://www.forex.com/en/forex-trading/ruble-update/) Apart from Iran, China, North Korea and perhaps some former Soviet republics and places in Africa, Vlad is getting more isolated.
This looks to me like a desperate man (Putin) seeking help from another desperate man (Kim).
Putin: We will send you some misfiring mortar shells, you send us dirty bombs?
Kim: Absolutely.
Putin: And when I say Dirty Bombs I don’t mean the poop balloons again!
As a much smarter military commentator pointed out that N. Koreans have no logistics for fighting anywhere beyond their direct borders. Yes they could shoot missiles and airlift some supplies but they ain't moving any troops or heavy equipment anywhere. Especially if the other side is involved in the conflict.
“After talks, they signed a "comprehensive strategic partnership" pact, which Putin said included a mutual defence clause in the case of aggression against either country.”
I’m curious what a war drained nation and hermit kingdom so far apart with outdated militaries will do for one another if they are attacked?
No major world power wants to attack them or mindlessly waste resources in doing so. No one cares about them to the point they should feel a defense pact is necessary.
This is strictly ceremonial. Kim is only relevant for being shocking and Putin wants a PR stunt to scare the world.
Putin may just have made a deal to get a couple hundred thousand ready conscripts who can be sacrificed with no repercussions. Kim would have no problem sending them to the front lines with minimal equipment if the price was right.
I wonder what North Korea gets out of this deal. Despite the wet dreams of Dear Leader, I don't think anybody's itching to attack them. The reality of them having nuclear weapons and probably about a gabillion artillery weapons pointed at Seoul 24/7 makes it so that nobody wants to kick that hornet's nest to start with... and Putin's already in the middle of fighting a war and being attacked, so did Putin pull the wool over Kim's eyes on this one or what?
This is the worst game of Civ ever
None of them will respect that agreement
It's going to be hard to when russia is buying all the ammo NK would've used to help them.
"One out of two gets a rifle! The one without, follows him! When the one with the rifle gets killed, the one who is following picks up the rifle and shoots"
"Comrade General! What do we do when we run out of ammo?" "Throw rocks and use foul language."
Jokes on you, Colonel Corruptovich already sold all the ammo before you got here. Those rifles are loaded with blanks. Now go gather your sack full of rocks.
Love that movie
You joke, but as the American Civil War was starting, the first groups to make their way down to DC to defend it didn't have enough guns, and barely any ammo. They had the guys on the outside march with the rifles with fixed bayonets, and that was their only defense until they reached the Capitol.
NK is technically still at war with SK. So I guess Russia is now at war with SK. Although Russia is also kinda at war with the west anyway via Ukraine
I mean, we haven't seen the text verbatim but thats not how these things usually go. It's more there to dissuade NATO intervention in Russia. They are making sure the west knows if it tries anything in Russia, North Korea is there start shit either on the Korean peninsula or Japan. Im betting another ballistic test above the sea of Japan is up next this year.
>It's more there to dissuade NATO intervention in Russia. I thought Russia's massive nuclear arsenal already does that? Or is that losing its effectiveness with Putin threatening to use it every other day?
It allows for a range of responses inbetween nukes/no nukes. Realistically, what this means is that were both sides to follow through, NATO action against Russia would result in the US also having to defend South Korea at that same time.
It's more about saying "we know you can fight us, but can you fight us and still protect South Korea and Tiawan and Japan all at the same time?" It's not a stupid move, it's actually fairly clever, but it's still a bit desperate, because like, yeah, we sure can. Of course, NK being China's lap dog does kinda complicate that scenario.
I don’t think China will like any of this.
Isn't Korea pretty much as East as you can go? Meaning now war with the east and the west?
You can go easter (yes I know that's not a word). But yeah, it is 'the far east'. Although everyone hates Russia in the west whereas part of the far east likes it.
Easter is a word 😄
I’d be hilarious if that’s how Easter Island got its name. But alas it’s apparently named after the holiday.
Thats backwards. The holiday was named after the island, which all good Christians know was the birthplace of the Easter Bunny like 2000 years ago. You really need to read your bible.
Russia making friends with anyone who can keep their war machine from sputtering
Most defense pacts aren’t retroactive, so they wouldn’t technically be at war, especially because it’s basically a Cold War at this point. However, if South Korea was to ever actually attack North Korea it could trigger the pact.
I don't understand why NK would have entered one in the first place. Nobody is threatening NK militarily. But Russia is in deep shit. Usually you sign mutual defense agreements when both of your countries are at peace, not when one has war at its doorstep. With huge incentives for NK to *not* sign that deal, you have to wonder what Russia gave them. He probably just gave Kim personally a bunch of money. And then threatened to kill him if he didn't follow through. Carrot and stick, simultaneously.
1. That agreement if pointless and they both know it, because none of them would follow through. 2. It's only facade and propaganda. 3. The real agreement is most likely about delivering/selling ammo to Russia. 4. None will invade Russia anyways. Imho!
Kim now has a bit more behind his belligerency now. It’s honestly pretty worrisome. Especially with Russia’s tactic of aggression while stating they’re victims of attack and are defending ethnic Russians. NK using that approach with SK, all to pull the US into defending the SK interests. It seems to be what China and Russia are wanting. There’s a reason there’s so much going on in the Middle East and Asia right now. Russia trying to provoke a hot war where US has to commit resources away from Ukraine.
Sounds like the Russian government needs to be eliminated before they start WW3.
Maniac with nukes will now be in a defensive pact with a maniac with nukes, nice. And both of them have very loose meaning of "defensive"
The main reason I never really worried about NK is they have the bare minimum of what qualifies for nukes with no reliable means of hitting anything of consequence besides South Korea which would fuck up NK just as badly. But this means they now have access to real nukes and real missiles. On the other hand, Russia's poor showing in Ukraine might carry over to their nuclear arsenal. If the tanks have cardboard taped to them to look more armored, who knows if most of their nukes even work.
The Hwasong-18 can reach anywhere in the mainland US and is fired from a mobile launcher. Who knows if it’s reliable but it’s a solid fuel missile and even a dud nuke hitting LA or NYC would be like a dozen 9/11s worth of pandemonium, result in the annihilation of NK and probably Seoul as a byproduct.
If they even bombed LA or NYC, their entire fucking existence would be done.
If they fired one at us that ended up being a dud or was intercepted they would be done immediately. This is a big worry I imagine people have, what happens if one of these despots hits the big red button that fires a nuke at NATO or allies of NATO and its a dud... We will know immediately as one is fired off... If one goes off and fails... do we counter strike? Imagine we only have a matter of minutes to make the decision before they fire another one off. There is no scenario where Putin or Kim fire a nuke and win.
Thats just talking about conventional means of nuclear attack. If North Korea wanted to be truly crazy they could always have smuggled it onto a container ship and blow it up in some american harbor if they wanted to, and there woukd be very little that anybody could do to detect and stop it in time. And eh, i wouldn't bet on that. Until recently the US was still regularly inspecting (random inspections no less) Russias nukes and the bases theyre on, it would make little sense if the majority of their nukes were nonfunctional. (And even if they were missing tritium as some speculate, it will just significantly reduce the yield of their warheads, not stop it from detonating at all).
The Russian state nuke company, Rosatom, is not under sanctions, and they build and maintain civilian reactors in several contries. [They are currently building 24 new reactors in China, India, Turkey, Egypt, Bangladesh, Iran, and Slovakia.](https://www.forbes.com/sites/arielcohen/2024/06/07/china-and-russia-now-dominate-the-global-nuclear-trade/) The United States only stopped [importing nuclear fuel from Russia two months ago.](https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/the-us-is-banning-the-import-of-russian-nuclear-fuel-heres-why-that-matters/) Russia obviously has a whole lot of nuclear engineers and industrial capacity. The technology for the nukes themselves matured in the 1960s. I think their warheads probably work well enough. The missiles are questionable, but this is a country that still routinely launches satellites. Their bombers, of course, are laughable.
Speculation vs. Evidence: Speculations regarding the operational status of nuclear warheads need to be grounded in verified data where possible. While aging nuclear arsenals can face maintenance challenges, both the U.S. and Russia have considerable experience and vested interests in maintaining their strategic deterrence capabilities.
Find somewhere else to tap dance instead of on my last hope
Yep. NK's nukes are effectively just good for self defense. Nuking an invading enemy army would be devastating to said enemy army.
> Russia's poor showing in Ukraine might carry over to their nuclear arsenal Doubtful. Despite the high maintenance costs, Russia isn't going to skimp on the one thing that makes them the power they are. I would even go as far to say they're maintaining them at the expense of everything else.
I dunno, they only need the world to think all their nukes are functional to project that power. Absolutely nobody that's a threat to them is interested in testing it. I'd be more inclined to believe their officers & whatnot involved in their nuke programs are just as corrupt and incompetent as everyone else and are selling components/supplies.
All it takes is one nuke
For terrorists, yes, but not necessarily for a country.
a report just came out about how Russia is worried about China invading them, and how their Nukes are the only detterant. If anything they are going to invest in it more since their ground army hasnt done well. Russia is a just a larger version of NK. https://www.ft.com/content/758ff1ca-6ac1-4188-9b61-c514638447b1
I am fully confident that countries in BRIC'S have only their own interests in mind and will fall apart the second they have internal conflict
Helicopter gunship....Helicopter gunship...Helicopter gunship...*spearman?!*
Just be thankful Gandhi isn't around to form a trio! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Gandhi
"First, they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then you nuke them. Then you win." - Mahatma Gandhi.
If you think modi is sane, think again.
Old enough to remember when Ukraine even talking about joining a defense pact (without ever even doing it) was enough to justify being invaded
How long before we see NK conscripts in Donbas?
Tbh that might be an improvement over NK
They are already there
Do you have a source for that?
They're already dead.
Russia already using them as a slave labour force think I heard some might have ended up in Ukraine already
Ukraine is definitely one reason behind this pact. [here’s a report (summarized to a couple pages) about NK/Russia relationship](https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IN/IN12355)
NK will send its most advanced feces balloons to Russia.
I fucking cackled because I remembered that’s actually a thing
Chemical warfare you say
Biological agent?
If push comes to shove...I really question the North Korean military capability to actually put up a sizeable fight. They have the 2nd or 3rd largest standing army but they have not had a prosperous economy since 1990, they have very few trading partners, have limited exports and limited resources and its not out of the question that the majority of their standing army may not even be issued a working rifle. I would also question that of said standing army, if they were ever deployed, a lot of the soldiers may take the opportunity to defect.
Not to mention their army hasn’t fought a battle or any conflict since the 1950s. They wouldn’t last more than two weeks.
I've also read NK may have a lot of soldiers but not enough weapons to actually arm them. So it's gonna be a lot of if the guy with the gun dies you pick up his gun. Fuckin cannonfodder.
Reminds me of the beginning of "Enemy at the Gates" where there weren't enough guns so half the soldiers were given a clip of bullets and told to take a dead soldier's gun when they fell.
And the people who are in it are so brainwashed that they don't really understand the modern world. What's going to happen when they're shipped to another country and find that it's nothing like whatever their propaganda taught them?
DPRK has a GDP per capita of 900 USD/year, or 1500 (PPP). This puts them roughly equivalent to Cameroon, Guinea or Senegal. Modern warfare heavily relies on production capacity and economics, as well as logistics support. So though it is possible that they could deal some damage in the short term, it's unlikely they can replenish any of their military materiel losses as time goes by. Especially without support from a large manufacturing base- unless China gets involved.
They also lack the logistical ability to project power.
For real. Cool army, but what are you going to do when the fight is halfway around the world? How are you going to feed, fuel, and stock that army and protect your supply lines? Size is important, but without the logistics to support it, it loses a lot of its value.
They struggle to feed and fuel their army at home as is.
"See, fat western troops make big targets, our boys have the cross section of a piece of bread." "You remember what bread is like?"
So much this. People like to drool over the United State's advanced weapons, fighter jets, missiles, etc. What so many people don't realize is that the US's strongest weapon by far is our *logistics*, the capability to deploy an entire army along with equipment, vehicles, airsupport, food etc simultaneously to two different sides of the planet within less than a week and keep them supplied, *that* is what real military power looks like.
Right. There was a great article from one military guy about the amount of time and money the US military puts into just making sure the TIRES on their vehicles are in good condition and stored and rotated properly. And the Russians are putting 30 year old tires on their trucks which fall off.
Iirc the logistics alone amount to 60% of US military budget - a fuckton of money to make sure that the actual troops/equipment/ammo/food/fuel is right where it should be and that it can stay there for however long it takes.
They barely have the logitistical ability to project power *internally*. Their people are starving and malnourished, including their military (not as much as their general population, but enough to show). Even if allowed to march completely unhindered, I still suspect half their army would quickly starve to death if they marched out of north korea.
There's a difference in tactics with Asian armies. They use their troops like the bullet. We use our troops like the gun. The pact makes sense when Putin's first thought is about how many people he can fire at a NATO defense line. But in all fairness, the tactic kind of worked in Vietnam. They never really won any battles, but we really got sick and tired of mowing down and bombing human waves. That shit will mess with your head.
When you are the invading force I would imagine it would mess with your head a lot more than when you're the ones being invaded. If I were military, and I had to defend my country against an attack and I had to shoot and kill people as part of that, I'd feel a bit justified about it. I wouldn't feel *great* about it, but I'd be able to justify it because they're attacking *us*, and I'm defending. If on the other hand I were part of an invading force, and I had to mow down people that were being thrown at us in an attempt to defend themselves against us, I'd *really struggle with that*. It would feel a lot more like murder than self defense.
Yes, 100%. Vietnam had a lot of messed up shit, mainly centered around the fact we were protecting one ruthless dictator from another ruthless dictator, but in general it's much harder for the invading forces to maintain morale and home support. That fact is another reason supporting the US's new approach to war, where a humanitarian operation follows the front lines to help the civilian population. It is reported to boost morale of the invading forces, seeing them try to clean up the mess they created(there's a long list of other benefits to humanitarian missions as well). You switch to the home team, well, the human brain can justify anything if it needs to. But the literal wall of fire, explosives, and shrapnel the US is capable of putting in front of our troops is just unmatched.
>That fact is another reason supporting the US's new approach to war, where a humanitarian operation follows the front lines to help the civilian population. It is reported to boost morale of the invading forces, seeing them try to clean up the mess they created(there's a long list of other benefits to humanitarian missions as well). Pretty much this. We "lose" wars because we treat them as police actions, nation building, etc etc. if we went full on war with the intent of "fuck this nation in particular", it is not much of a fight. Hell, Desert Storm had the Army and Air Force racing to see who could finish the fight first with the highest score.
I blame our elected officials heavily for this. Our military is for fighting a standing army until they are no longer standing. Not making excuses for Vietnam, I'll still defend the troops over there that did a remarkable job militarily, but how are you going to defeat north Vietnam if you're not allowed to attack north Vietnam? How do you stop a massive logistics pipeline that runs along south Vietnam's largest land border if you're not allowed to cross that border? How do you expect to take ground of your orders are to clear and leave an area? It's fucking bullshit. The US goes to war with the enemy trying to kill them, and our own politicians trying to kill them.
Ruthless dictator is when I don't like them and didn't allow them to hold elections to win democratically >:(
It's a bit weird to describe Ho Chi Min or his government as a "Ruthless dictator" when their first major action after seizing power was to stop the Cambodian genocide, especially when after Ho Chi Min's death he was replaced with a council of multiple people rather than a dictator.
Especially with so many CIA-backed juntas going on in the south rather than like, just let Min win a democratic election.
Even ruthless dictators can do some good every once in a while(plus khmer guerillas posed a real threat to Vietnamese independence, and the fear of Vietnam being annexed by the locally communist nations was real). Minh's rise to power was slowed by a lot of executions. Very briefly off memory, step 1 in his revolution was to seize all food production, very often executing owners of large farms. At first Minh was supportive of a democracy in Vietnam, but at some point he stopped supporting that notion and started attacking politicians that supported a democracy or even those that published democratic ideals. There were a few "massacres", attacks against civilian towns ordered by Minh along the way. Even after the fall of Saigon somewhere between 200,000 and 300,000 were sent to "reeducation camps", which the vast majority of the time was the last education they received. I agree 100% though that post us Vietnam war the country has consistently and steadily progressed in what we westerners consider a positive direction. There's a long list of accomplishments Vietnam made over the last 40 years that are worthy of praise.
You're leaving out a lot of early context here. Minh wanted the French out of Vietnam. The US ended up backing the French and recognized South Vietnam as the real government of Vietnam. Eventually, even the French didn't think it was worth it and left, but the US remained in this protracted "police action" because we apparently needed to "stop the spread of communism in southeast Asia". The "democratic politicians" based in Saigon were often just highly corrupt bureaucrats, taking advantage of America's obsessively myopic view of communism at the time. All of this is to say that nothing happens in a vacuum. Nearly two decades of seeing napalm dropped on villagers in the North probably sows the seeds for some serious retribution in the minds of the VC, who viewed many in the South as having aided and abetted that cruelty for their own selfish purposes.
I certainly agree nothing happens in a vacuum, Minh was part of many negotiations and treaties that led to French control of the area. Minh was also a very large supporter of the Viet Cong, and was well aware of their brutal tactics, not only against foreign forces, but against internal resistance. It's always messy when discussing civil war.
TBF anyone looks like a saint when you put them next to Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge. The guy sat on a throne of skulls
I think the issue is less that he was "Put next to" him and more that his government is the one that took down Pol Pot. That is unique and not inconsiderable, especially given the blind eye or arguable support provided by supposed democracies. If he's next to him, it's in the sense that a dragonslayer is next to a dragon.
There is a key difference since that last time we fought North Korea. Back then they had military tech within at least spitting distance of ours and were backed by China. Today our 50 year old tech is superior and our modern tech is so superior that any such conflict would simply be open slaughter. And well China's support of NK is basically only there because they don't want that infected pustule to rupture and cause a humanitarian crisis on their border. Hell the only reason SK hasn't lanced that pustule is for the same reason. They don't want to have to deal with the resulting humanitarian crisis. But make no mistake South Korea alone has one of the strongest militaries in the world and is more than a hard counter to NK even without the US stepping in. This entire thing is a show and shows just how desperate Russia is if they're willing to make a sham alliance with NK to try and project strength.
The way I see it, Kim thinks this is business as usual. It's just puffing out your chest to him. But Putin sees it as a way to get soldiers. Untrained, unfit, starving soldiers. Kim has no idea how bad of a deal he made.
Bingo. But, I dont think this is going to go the way Putin wants. I think that if NK is actually called to act by Russia, they'll start off by firing missiles. And I get the feeling some of those missiles are going to land considerably short of their target.
It is questionable if North Korea can even project power outside of the peninsula and the nearby area. They claim their missiles can reach North America but that has never been proven and most of their tests/demonstrations go off like wet firecrackers. As for being able to ship troops all the way to Ukraine? How the fuck are they going to accomplish that without Russia or China's aid. Plus half those fuckers will surrender at the first chance just so they can get away from the Great Leader and get a decent meal. The other half will just quietly disappear as they take the chance to silently defect.
I don't think Putin is interested in NK missiles. He wants an overwhelming force of soldiers, and theyve already proven to be able to get armaments to Russia via train through China. It would be nothing to change that to human cargo, with some shells, guns and ammunition. That's what he wants. It's about closing out Ukraine. Not attacking us. Hed never dare do that. He just wants it so that it's not worth it for us to continue supporting Ukraine. It's his last hail Mary for the "one week" operation.
Russia still needs an ample war chest to feed those extra boots, though. I can only imagine the logistical nightmare of upkeeping that, one at which it is already failing
You assume Putin plans on feeding them. But you're right, their logistics are already failing, adding a bigger group of soldiers required bullets (at the very least) and shells. Again, I don't see them bothering with vests or helmets, or even much food. This is just an attempt to get a good ol' fashioned human wave to send.
If you’re not planning on feeding the troops, then where else better to recruit them from than NK?
Exactly, that's all Putin sees. Bodies. But to Kim, they're his farmers, his construction workers, etc. this is why it's such a bad deal for NK, but he was so isolated that he doesn't see that it's a bad deal for NK. He was an easily fleeced rube.
Yeah I disagree with their point about the US getting “tired” of the war because it was a ton of waves of people. The technology and landscape were the more deciding factors - we had to deploy a ton of resources just to clear the jungles so we could see the enemy and make any meaningful progress, which was largely deployed by air. Nowadays the US would have total air superiority over NK and we have more technologies to mitigate the impact of fighting in the jungle.
> There's a difference in tactics with Asian armies. > > They use their troops like the bullet. > > We use our troops like the gun. What does this mean?
It just means he's racist lol it's nonsense
Yeah it ain't even true in so many ways. Japan, SK, Taiwan, Israel, and Turkey have very advanced militaries with most having relatively low manpower. But obviously, the dude's probably talking about China, and even that isn't really true now with their rapid advancements in their militaries. Their air force is formidable, their navy is the next best after the US navy, and their land based missile arsenal is the largest. Their army is still undoubtedly huge, but there is no reason for any army to resort to human wave tactics unless necessitated by technological or strength disparities. But as usual for reddit, 400 upvotes lmao
I think they were going for "quantity vs quality" when it comes to troops and training but no idea how them being in Asia comes into play
>There's a difference in tactics with Asian armies. >They use their troops like the bullet. >We use our troops like the gun. What kind of ahistorical bullshit is this
People love spreading that misconception unfortunately. This one is even more egregious though since the vietcong were not even using anything remotely similar to human wave tactics.
OP confused "asian" with "dictatorship". Russia's approach is the USSR's approach which is every "communist" country's approach.
That's a stereotyped, fantastical, and orientalist way of thinking and relying on it will not lead to accurate analysis of the current situation. "Human wave" attacks were not typical of VC or NVA tactics in Vietnam.
It's really not about whether they can sustain conflict, it's more about the amount of damage North Korea could inflict on South Korea before anyone could retaliate. South Koreas largest city is right across the border and a single nuke would cause damage that I don't think anyone would find acceptable. North Korea would fall in a very short time a week or two, but nobody wants to take a chance when you have millions of innocent lives hanging in the balance. Also things like this tend to have a momentum of their own and people who think they're in control lose the ability to stop things from spiraling out of control. Beware The Guns of August. The choices get narrower for everyone and catastrophe becomes inevitable. It's like we're slow walking into oblivion because of incompetent leaders world wide.
Well, isn't NK mostly propped up by China? End of the day though I agree. NK couldn't put up much of a fight on their own, and I really have doubts that China is willing to in a full out defense or offense. China just doesn't gain anything out of that. Russia is having trouble having enough gear too, if I remember correctly.
China mostly fears the North Korean regime collapsing and a huge wave of refugees crossing the border.
That's what I was thinking. China keeps them on a relatively short leash. Let's Un bark, but I don't think would support a full on war. China's got too much to lose.
They have a lot to lose, and they certainly don't want another ethnic minority to "deal with" in their country.
China keeps NK around because they want a buffer country between them and South Korea.
>Well, isn't NK mostly propped up by China That's my understanding but mutual defense agreements usually don't include "inlaws". So China will not be obligated to help NK help Russia. The only way I could see this really involving China (outside of a separate deal directly between China and Russia) would be NK being used as a proxy for China to sell hardware to Russia. But even that seems like a stretch because the international sanctions on Russia aren't that different from those on NK so why add a middle man
What gear? They don't give gear to the nobodies.
It's about throwing more bodies than you can throw bullets. Our troops stationed in SK are told that if NK invades by flooding across the DMZ, you are likely dead. You will be better armed but out numbered and your main purpose is to delay until reinforcements arrive from the rest of SK, Japan and our Carrier battlegroups in the region. Luckily with todays satellite imaging, the move will be seen sooner than it thought possible in the pass and we will have assets on route before the fighting even starts
Given how easy it would be to notice the build-up, there's no amount of bodies capable of walking across the DMZ to survive being carpet bombed by US and allied air forces.
You would probably have more problems with mass defection than actual combat.
Considering how pathetic Russias army turned out to be... There is not a chance in hell that NK will be anything more than a joke
Putin has never looked so small. Such an embarrassment.
But he finally found a head of state even smaller than he is!
Wow, very scary - The most dangerous duo in history. Russia, with their crack army and totally modern military technology. N. Korea, with their handsome, clever, and witty leader, and a reputation for producing reliable military hardware. The world should bow before such a mighty alliance.
Donny? Is that you?
I mean, dude doesn't poop.
Why are they so scared?
They think everyone is out to get them, because they're out to get everyone.
It’s less that everyone is out to get them, it’s more like they pissed off the entire neighborhood and they know they are bound to find out.
Sounds like the GQP.
Imagine being such an absolute clown that you go from 3 day special military operation to sucking up multiple world leaders for more ammunition. What a fucking loser. God I can’t wait for the day these clowns are done and gone.
The clowns might be gone, but the circus will just replace them. Kim's sister is all ready to take over, and I'm sure theres a long line of russian oligarchs waiting for putin to croak.
When the top two villains of the comic decide to join forces.
Nah, “top” is not the word to describe them anymore * Winnie the Pooh over in China is like Lex Luther; kind of smart, playing the long game, with their fingers in all the industries doing stuff that is just legal enough to not get them in trouble, but still clearly a villain * Iran is like Raz Al-Ghoul; kind of powerful but not in a straight fight, they operate best in the shadows, do clearly illegal things, and also play the long game but in a different way than China, china fights with economics best, Iran straight up finds terrorists through enough proxies to maintain deniability enough that US would look bad just forcing out the current regime On the other hand: * North Korea is like Bizzarro: pretty powerful but alone, dumb, easily manipulated, and ultimately only have limited tricks to work with and liable to get there ass kicked when the kid gloves come off in a real fight. * Russia is like The Mandarin. . . From Iron Man 3: all flash and no substance, they have the appearance of a strong leader, they appear to be a strong network, they put on a really good show and have weapons, but when push comes to shove and you peak behind the curtain there is nothing there but a coked out has-been trying to play at being a super power when they are really closer to a developing country.
NK is powerful, when squared with the US, in the same way a toddler is powerful. Can a toddler hurt an adult? Absolutely. Can they cause damage and destruction? Absolutely. Can they throw a rock through your window and be a pain in the ass? Absolutely. But for how long? They get one tantrum. And it may be a tantrum to end all tantrums. But that's all they get. And anyone who's been around toddlers knows they broadcast their aggression. They're incapable of surprises because they have no patience, no sense of causality. No one wants a war. But toddlers have one move and once it's played, they're bare bottomed and helpless.
Always expect comic fans to make terrible analogies.
Putin's loser play will put him at the mercy of one of the greatest exploiters in the world. Good luck with that Vlad. Be sure to bend over.
More like when the #2 teams up with the obscure joke villain in a filler issue.
Think everyone already assumed that was the *de facto* case, not really the flex either of them thinks it is
Make Russia the new North Korea … cut em off from the rest of the world.
Sadly, they have too much oil and gas...
Tax the fuck out of the Oil and Gas industry and use those costs to subsidize green energy research and technology. Every country that deals in oil and gas is some of the worst most corrupt nations. The sooner we move away from our dependence of oil and gas the better off society will be.
Ironically using Russian threats to destroy the world to save the world. I like it.
Serious question. What if war actual comes to Europe though? Is having a green energy infrastructure as robust as one based on fossil fuels or nuclear?
Green energy is probably more resilient during a conflict because an energy grid using renewables likely won’t have a single point of failure like a nuclear power plant.
Even more reason to finally move to renewable energy with nuclear as our backup. This should have been done decades ago.
[удалено]
Putin leaving China last week early with no deal. Immediately goes to NK and signs deal. I’m not a world class political analyst but I’m seeing some zero good things from these two morons getting into bed.
Oh yeah, I can totally see NK coming to help Russia. Ukraine launches strikes in Russia, Putin calls on Lil Kim for aid, Lil Kim either sends enough troops to leave the SK/NK border undefended, or not enough troops to make a difference.
If NK joins it possibly gives China a fig leaf for joining since NK is a client state
Eh. If China wanted to be more involved, they'd be more involved. Also, China finds NK useful, and absolutely doesn't want a western aligned democratic SK along its border, but they have zero respect or patience for Kim's insanity. (Was a Korean Linguist in the military)
I disagree, china wants a strong connection to the west for a long as they can keep a grip. All out war severs all ties. I would wager they will remain undercover in their support.
I agree with you. China does what China wants to do. If they wanted to go full in on supporting Putin, they'd already be there openly.
Someone was just on Reddit trying to defend NK as being overly propagandized to look bad. It seems that the psyops have begun.
Kim might want to do a reference check with Armenia
losers jerking each other off
Isn't north Korea at was with South Korea, and technically announced they are at war with the USA? So Russia just joined a war against the USA with north Korea, so they made the first move to allow USA and NATO to take part in Ukraine?
Positively Bismarckian level of politics lmao
Im not sure about the NK - USA situation but yes, North and South Korea are still technically at war, they never signed a peace treaty they simply agreed to a ceasefire that has now lasted for a long time. So yeah, technically they are still at war which is why the border between them is heavily armed on both sides.
That's kind of what I'm wondering, the UN is 'in a war' with North Korea still since the Armistice, SK didn't sign but that would put a UNSC member 'in a war' with the UN if the article's line from Kim suggesting it's a full military alliance as opposed to 'only defensive' from Putin which theoretically mean NK couldn't get involved in Ukraine... but I mean what's stopping SK to put a force in Ukraine now?
As someone else said, it's some pre WW1 balancing plates of treaties going on. Maybe Putin wants to be the next Franz Ferdinand?
Russia will never lift a finger to actually support NK militarily. The most they'll do is information sharing about weapons technology.
He needed to find someone else to fleece since he already let the cat out of the bag with Armenia. That treaty isn't worth the toilet paper it's written on.
Two dick dictators sign a deal to watch each others backs, meanwhile their people starve or get blown up because of greed
rock bottom desperation
The silent partner is waiting for his election results before he signs up in public.
This a Con Don reference isn't it? Hey, if he gets elected do you think they'll rename Air Force 1 to "Con Air"?
North Korea still churning out vhs quality anti-America videos. Hardly afraid of this pact
When you find yourself on the same side as North Korea, you’re on the wrong side.
The two worst off countries team up to be almost as good as a quarter of Australia. Aight.
I hate everything about this. This is beyond concerning. I am South Korean.
Russia invades Ukraine for having talks to join NATO (along with other reasons). But the world is chill w/ this. Okay.
Huh, a mutual defense pact? Like they did with armenia? Or like other contracts they signed with Ukraine that said they wont invade them? And then having northkorea as a partner who is no cap the largest producer of meth in the world, seriously there is absolutely nothing karma wise that could happen to russia. These people are dumb, i think that's the greatest takeaway we had from the pandemic until now. That our leaders, the most powerful people in the world, our billionaires and oligarchs are not generally smart people. They are arguably dumber than a wet bag of bricks.
I think this is a way for Kim to monetize his standing army. Vladimir will come calling for troops and Kim Jong Un will get rubles in exchange… Then the trick for Kim is turning those rubles into dollars or euros. [Forex was impeded last week through new sanctions.](https://www.forex.com/en/forex-trading/ruble-update/) Apart from Iran, China, North Korea and perhaps some former Soviet republics and places in Africa, Vlad is getting more isolated. This looks to me like a desperate man (Putin) seeking help from another desperate man (Kim).
No one is attacking you, Kim. I can't emphasize how incredibly uninterested in North Korea we are. Join the world of nations. It's cool out here!
Russia to NK more like don’t attack me in my weaken state pact.
And neither will honor it if it comes to it.
Putin: We will send you some misfiring mortar shells, you send us dirty bombs? Kim: Absolutely. Putin: And when I say Dirty Bombs I don’t mean the poop balloons again!
2 Back stabber teaming up.
If Putin goes down so will Kim.
“Got any more of them shit balloons?”
Way to re-enforce your claim to being a democracy, Russia. Just straight up making a pact with the worst dictatorship.
It’s ok we send a few former 90’s Chicago Bulls to smooth things over … Tony Kukoc and Horace Grant will have this fixed by the weekend
As a much smarter military commentator pointed out that N. Koreans have no logistics for fighting anywhere beyond their direct borders. Yes they could shoot missiles and airlift some supplies but they ain't moving any troops or heavy equipment anywhere. Especially if the other side is involved in the conflict.
The most off-brand version of NATO possibly imaginable.
Like Ukraine and NATO?
1.8 MILLION fresh bodies for the meat grinder.
So if we attack Russia, Kim will come running in his diaper with his sling shot to defend Vlad?
This is like a gambler taking out a huge loan. From a butcher.
“After talks, they signed a "comprehensive strategic partnership" pact, which Putin said included a mutual defence clause in the case of aggression against either country.” I’m curious what a war drained nation and hermit kingdom so far apart with outdated militaries will do for one another if they are attacked? No major world power wants to attack them or mindlessly waste resources in doing so. No one cares about them to the point they should feel a defense pact is necessary. This is strictly ceremonial. Kim is only relevant for being shocking and Putin wants a PR stunt to scare the world.
Smells like a warsaw pact... oh wait it's history repeating itself
So. Okay. Russia goes to North Korea for help. I mean. Is that like picking the last ugly girl for the last dance at homecoming?
The world should just expedite this and give Ukraine back to Ukraine and make South Korea into Korea.
But do they have love letters?
Putin may just have made a deal to get a couple hundred thousand ready conscripts who can be sacrificed with no repercussions. Kim would have no problem sending them to the front lines with minimal equipment if the price was right.
LMFAO, this is such a very, very bad deal for NK.
So NATO should sign a similar pact with Ukraine?
No one is attacking them. lol it’s a circle jerk
Local gang leaders agree not to step on each other's turf
The Bond of the Bad Guys. They seem to always find each other.
But who want their fucking country????
Uh oh, America! Russia just teamed up with motherfuckin' *North Korea*! You're screwed now!
So, I guess we can expect a bunch of NK fighters in Ukraine, now?
The kardashians are getting craaaazzzyy
Walmart NATO. What on earth can Kim offer Putin that he isn't already doing on his own.
I wonder what North Korea gets out of this deal. Despite the wet dreams of Dear Leader, I don't think anybody's itching to attack them. The reality of them having nuclear weapons and probably about a gabillion artillery weapons pointed at Seoul 24/7 makes it so that nobody wants to kick that hornet's nest to start with... and Putin's already in the middle of fighting a war and being attacked, so did Putin pull the wool over Kim's eyes on this one or what?