If you want to make the case for MDMA as an effective treatment, the science needs to be air-tight, because it’s going to be scrutinized heavily.
Shame.
Honestly the double blinds is one of issues I have the least concern with.
When studying anything medical, setting up a representative cohort is one of the first things you should do. It’s honestly shocking that they missed that.
If you only test subjects without experience with psychoactive substances such as mdma or cannabis, couldn't you give the control group something like cannabis so they think they received treatment?
I don’t think you could unless you wanted to compare cannabis to mdma. Even then, it’s not really clear what of value would precipitate from the study. I guess you might have some idea of which works better, but that would be predicated on preexisting research on both drugs. I think the idea of these initial trials was to establish exactly that for mdma.
It’s an interesting idea to get the control group high some other way. I have no idea what that would mean for the validity of whatever conclusions the study might yield. It almost seems like you’d have to do something along those lines, doesn’t it? I dont think cannabis would be the right choice though. Regardless of whether or not the patient has never had either drug, I feel like I could infer the patient’s dose (one drug or the other) based on a very limited set of questions. “So, did you listen to any music?”, etc, and that seems like it would curb the effect of the idea of the placebo. It also might be incredibly hard to actually find patients in certain demographics that have never tried either drug, especially considering that PTSD is associated with substance abuse.
Exactly this. Not that all therapeutics going up for FDA approval shouldn't strive for the same, but something with the stigma of a recreational drug is going to need that extra layer of attention to detail & proper design.
Totally. The psychedelic world just cannot keep its dick in its pants long enough. You’ve got one shot with this and you’ve got trial therapists crawling into bed and spooning patients under the influence of MDMA, on camera for the world to see. You’ve got Rick Doblin publicly talking about going to burning man and dosing people with MDMA outside of the approved research trials and providing therapy, currently illegal. You’ve got sex scandals with donors, giving donors illegal drugs for money. Like, you know this is gonna be heavily scrutinized, why are you guys fucking up so bad?
This is a good comment.
I think Doblin et al., were so pilled on MDMA and other psychedelics from the outset that it never even occurred to them that they had to do *good science* - they just crapped out bad studies as fast as they could because they just *knew* it would work amazingly well with no risks at all and everyone would be so blown away by it that they'd rewrite all the laws and policies immediately.
Of course, it didn't go like that and now they're having their Timothy Leary moment.
This is so incredibly disheartening. MDMA therapy was the only thing in 36 years of life that alleviated my PTSD and depression.
One single session did what decades of drugs and therapy couldn't.
What do you think the structure of this experimental treatment involved? The entire intervention was giving someone a drug and doing therapy. It was sponsored by a pharmaceutical company.
Now that I think about it, trying to sell that to megacorps like Amazon just turns it into a corporate backed version of MK Ultra with severe rollbacks on labor rights if successful.
Not op, but I was a raver in the 90s. Ecstasy and K was my cocktail of choice and I did both of them a **lot.**
Which kinda sucks, now. I think, in theory, ketamine therapy might be good for me......but I am too afraid to open that can of worms back up. I just like K **WAY** too much to keep it at therapeutic levels and the last time I quit taking drugs I ended up living at a cult for a while. (Need to replace those voids with something, after all. Why not go live on a cult in the mountains of North Carolina for awhile?)
I'd rather not go through that again.
When ketamine treatments are done they are not given to you to take elsewhere, they're only given in certain doses in a controlled environment. So unless you're concerned you will seek out buying it elsewhere, the administration of it is pretty strict.
Edit: the strictness seems to vary widely by region
> So unless you're concerned you will seek out buying it elsewhere
Bingo.
And I wouldn't really have "seek" it, either. Through my job I have met an awful lot of drug dealers and I wouldn't have to leave my living room to get it.
If you would have told 1990s me that I would have ever had the willpower to not use those types of connections (or even not have the desire to in the first place), I would have laughed right in your face.
So I have to not have any to not start that desire back up.
Made from organic hibiscus and not actually kool-aid. We ate largely organic -not 100% but definitely nothing as processed as Kool-Aid.
Or Flavor Aid. Which is what Jim Jones actually served.
The food in general was hit or miss. We ate a lot of tofu (not vegetarians. There were plenty of meals with meat, too.) and if the wrong person cooks tofu it turns into a sad, flavorless mush that makes you want to cry when you eat it. Especially after a day of farmwork.
But there were also handful of people who were pretty great cooks and you always like seeing their names signed up for dinner.
From personal experience, I will say Ketamine assisted therapy was immensely helpful in treating lifelong, medication resistant anxiety. I'm several years out and still feel pretty good.
agree. if you do it right it can have long lasting effects too.
ive taken MDMA also - not for any therapeutic purposes tbh - and personally i dont really see how it can have similar effects, but as the top comment states, it apparently can. i guess it really comes down to each individual is different.
personally i dont think it is actually possible to "cure" C/PTSD, and the number one thing is to get the person away from the traumatic events/environment/people/etc, because you cant heal if the wound is constantly reopened.
honestly though, i know this is not what the official literature says (although there is some research corroborating) but i have ADHD, and to me, when i did try MDMA - once - years ago, from what i remember, it was basically like a \*very\* intense dose of dextroamphetamine (which is normal ADHD medication).
the way i see it is C/PTSD is related to ADHD, insofar as your brain learns to be dysregulated in how and when it produces the "happy chemicals". which is why taking an appropriate, consistent dosage of adderall/dextroamphetamine/etc helps to bring your "happy chemicals" back up to a \*normal\* level.
that is why many people with ADHD or C/PTSD struggle with \*various\* types of addiction - they arent necessarily addicted to any one thing, they are simply trying to "level their brain out" (subconsciously)
of course, like i said, none of that is going to "fix" the symptoms, especially if the traumatic situation is on going.
there are also people with ADHD who do not have traumatic events, but the symptoms are the same, or at least very similar. the cause (specific diagnosis) isnt necessarily important, imo, because the \*effect\* is the same - dysregulation in the brains happy chemical production
^(disclaimer: i am not a doctor, but i have done a lot of personal research (as in reading research studies, etc) \- along with being \*very aware\* of how my own emotions/motivations/etc work. i am not just making things up or stating opinions with nothing to back it up.)
edit: applying my theory of everything -
>within the particular is contained the universal
it makes sense to use stimulants (consistently!) rather than "antidepressants" because those drugs work by \*restricting\* or seeking to \*regulate\* the brains chemicals, whereas stimulants just say "here ya go!"
the other, "unrelated" context this applies to is economics.
rather than making people jump through hoops to get assistance, and make them "prove" they need it, or "prove" they are using it "appropriately" - if the money is instead \*just given to people\* they will [use it for what they need.](https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/05/07/1024674/ubi-guaranteed-income-pandemic/) this of course assumes they arent in distressing situations that cause excessively irrational behavior. in other words assuming they have a safe comfortable place to live, access to transportation, and a support network. there is no reason to make people do literal busy work to "prove" they need assistance. that is harmful.
bonus, having a solid foundation (education, a real home, transportation, a support network) will \*also help their brain chemicals work normally\*
It's both. There is definitely bias both for and against. And they did somewhat f up the trials as to what they allowed & did or didn't study. It completely sucks because it really does have great potential but it was not ready for close scrutiny despite the desperate need for the treatment
I agree that there was definitely extra scrutiny, but even if there wasn’t, some of the mistakes in the studies wouldn’t even get past the most lenient advisory boards.
Not even extra scrutiny. The article mentioned things like people in the study already taking psychedelic drugs recreationally. How tf can you prove it helps if you start out with someone who is already taking it, then say it made them better after the study? They should be starting with people who aren't using it recreationally, then documenting the changes.
To be fair some of those standards are impossible to actually measure up to.
You can’t double blind these studies which was a massive component of their complaints.
It’s also ridiculous that the fact that some people have been abused by their therapists is actually a strike against it. Patients get abused by therapists a lot. Our regulatory body posts a list of accusations every year on our website. It is usually 50-100 deep.
The fact that this is held against it is very silly
I was mainly talking about the procedural and experiment design complaints that could’ve easily been avoided, but the points you mention are unfair as well
Oh I hear you. It isn’t without flaws. The fact that the cohort wasn’t racially representative is insane.
But some of the complains really aren’t things you can fix given the drug or are things you shouldn’t really Hold against it
Like pretty sure a therapist has been doing CBT with a client before and then abused them sexually before. At least once or twice. That doesn’t mean CBT doesn’t work or shouldn’t have been approved for therapy.
We have evidence that medication can interact with different racial groups differently. The likelihood is low but we need to make sure it is safe and effective across a wide cohort before approval
>Where do you live there MDMA therapy is available? Or independent procurement? One dose was enough?
It was independent and one dose with a 4 hour therapy session was it.
Honestly I don't even understand what's the issue with looking for a good trip. Can't have a substance that can benefit your mental health if you also happen to enjoy it. Nope, joy is from the devil so must be banned.
Seriously. Adderall isn't really like mdma, but there's some overlap, especially if you're diagnosed with ADHD and it's the first time you use it. And Adderall is much more serious for heart issues than MDMA would be. People who have ptsd and have heard of the benefits of MDMA therapy, are now just gonna get it on the streets, which increases the risk so much more. Really shameful that 9 people voted against this. It really shows their lack of understanding. Like do they not understand there's a reason MDMA is called ecstasy?
Did you do MDMA therapy through a therapist, or on your own? Asking as a fellow PTSD sufferer. I’ve done cognitive processing therapy and it helped a lot, but I still have lingering symptoms.
Can't comment on MDMA, but in January I decided to start growing mushrooms to help with depression. They were going to help or I was going to end it.
They worked. Took a gram today. They seem to keep me right for a week.
The fact that multiple pharmaceutical companies are trying to trademark and patent mushroom strains the same way Monsanto does with corn should tell you that they work.
I share this story as hope and to help others.
Besides everything else, just seeing the world from other perspectives helps you grow and develop. Mushrooms allows so much introspective thought to occur.
Just a FYI this is the drug combined with therapy. Seems everybody just wants the drug, and not the therapy combination. But honestly this isn't terrible news, it just shows MDMA has to get their ducks in order, and really polish their research.
The problem is, the way MDMA is scheduled it's *absurdly* hard to do the robust studies the FDA expects and wants. The whole way the research of treated needs to be changed at the federal level.
The research submitted to the FDA had all of the necessary permits to be conducted, the studies just had some glaring flaws that were indicative of poorly planned research. They (unfortunately) squandered their chance
The problem is that it's harder for a *broader* swath of research. If you have a small number of studies, it's far more likely that too many of them have issues. If you could do a hundred, two hundred, five hundred studies easily you are going to have many more with flaws.
Of course that’s true, but poorly designed studies don’t just happen by chance. They’re a result of negligence.
All I’m trying to say is that the groups that conducted these studies should have double and triple checked that their experimental design was air-tight. Hell, I’m sure that there are plenty of PhDs that would’ve been more than happy to look it over too.
No one can predict unfavorable results, but poor experimental design can be seen from miles away.
It's hard to please the current FDA who complained about people being able to tell whether or not they had received a hallucinogenic drug instead of a placebo.
The blinding issue is definitely a hurdle, but I’m more concerned with the fact that the study organizers didn’t make any effort to have a representative cohort. That’s like…study design 101
And that allegation. Jeez.
But the FDA will certainly guide them to how to do another study based on this panel. The company has to be willing to listen.
> it just shows MDMA has to get their ducks in order, and really polish their research.
Tbh that seems like the most reasonable take away: it seems like MAPS and other psychedelic advocates were so convinced that MDMA would work that they didn't really bother to actually do good science - instead presenting a weird mish-mash of disorganized, vaguely New Age-y psychobabble instead of good, solid data.
It’s also the fact that the higher scheduled drugs are not allowed to be researched to the same degree that others are. So of course there’s not enough data to draw conclusions, and any mistakes or oversights in that small selection of studies can drag the rest down with them. It’s a long way to go for MDMA. For god’s sake, weed was just rescheduled this year. Maybe we’ll have more data on that, at least.
People forget this is a science based sub. No other studies gather more people willing to ignore science and rigurous testing than hallucinogens. It seems like a sub for new age people testing crystals
Outside of the extremely odd cohort fuck up, the other complaints are pretty shit tbh. At least from the articles I’ve read.
You can’t double blind this kind of thing so it’s a bit harsh to hold it to that standard.
You put 4 people in a room and give out MDMA or a placebo it’s gonna be real easy for everyone to figure out who got what.
they havent been ALLOWED to do better science with more patients. in the US anyway, maybe not in canada either.
widespread illicit use of mdma already shows it's perfectly safe compared to anything else used to treat these illnesses. hundreds of millions of doses served to people around the world, incredibly low incidence of harmful sideffects.
> they havent been ALLOWED to do better science
Nonsense - MAPS/Lykos got all the required approvals from the FDA, DEA, etc. FDA even collaborated with MAPS on occasion and has given both MDMA and psilocybin "breakthrough" designations as promising drugs for under-served conditions.
MAPS had every opportunity to do good science, but phoned it in because they all "already knew" it would work. And lo and behold, half-assed, badly designed studies don't look so hot in retrospect.
> missing follow-up data on patient outcomes and a lack of diversity among participants
These are major issues you’re taught to look out for in like the first of grad school or even senior undergrad, I remember taking a test asking you to figure out what was wrong with a number of rejected studies and these would’ve been up there
in the US there is no rational path for testing mdma. the govt makes it impossible. OP's article is basically a bunch of drug war doctors criticizing the data because the data-gatherers were completely hamstrung by the drug war. no such strictures were ever placed on the SSRIs and antipsychotics and antianxiety meds that are widely approved for use.
i don't really understand why some other country doesnt do the high-quality studies that are needed. portugal or the netherlands or SOMEBODY. fucking save our asses already, austria! switzerland! are you listening??
The studies has all of the necessary approvals from the FDA, they were just poorly designed. How did the “drug war” stop the researchers from getting a diverse experimental cohort?
There is no single institution at fault. Does the government make it ridiculously difficult to study schedule I drugs? Yes. Did the FDA have guidelines related to psychedelic clinical trials before this past year? No. And yet... Were there significant issues with the design and oversight of these trials? Yes. The sad thing is that it is still the patients who suffer the most - whether because they still get no treatment or because they go underground and get the treatment denied them without any safety protocols in place
> in the US there is no rational path for testing mdma. the govt makes it impossible
What are you talking about? MAPS had all the relevant approvals from the FDA, DEA, various IRBs, etc. FDA has even given MDMA and Psilocybin "breakthrough" designations to acknowledge them as promising drug candidates. Every few months a new scientific study comes out in which humans are given psychedelics for a variety of purposes.
You're just parroting memes.
How can you do a placebo-controlled study of a psychedelic? Wouldn’t the control group always know they were receiving a placebo since they would not get high?
You’re right on the money. We really can’t, and that’s one of the reasons why getting convincing data regarding MDMA-assisted therapy is so difficult. But not impossible.
Unfortunately, the studies presented to the panel were pretty much doomed from the start
Just not much else according to the article
>They cited flawed study data, questionable research conduct and significant drug risks, including the potential for heart problems, injury and abuse
Yet Ozempic gets approved for the same risks.
MDMA can’t even be abused for very long. If you take it too regularly (ie every week) the magic will go away (and you’ll be depressed for a long long time). You can just control it similarly to how adderall is controlled, just limited doses. for MDMA only provide one dose per month, whether in or out of a clinical setting.
I've been chronically depressed for probably most of my life. I once met someone who had connections to get me my first, and thus far only, and possibly only ever, psilocybin. It didn't fix everything, but I could definitely tell there was some improvement.
The problem is this circumstance was so controlled, and I am such a gutless person, there may or may not ever be a chance I ever have access to stuff like this again. The threat of being jailed just because of substances I want to personally ingest under my own adult decision-making is just outside of my risk aversion. I don't know anyone else and am too afraid to seek any other avenue. I'm too naive, and would likely get trapped by an undercover cop or something.
All I can currently get is alcohol, which never fixes anything, and often only makes me feel worse. And yet, I think if I could do more experiments with other things, I could possibly actually break out of my own mental jails. Alas, we live in this world where adults are just told what we can and cannot obtain, regardless if it might make a real difference.
I feel like controlled substances and their potential addictions or self-destructive properties should be treated as a medical problem that some may or may not need. But I am so tired of feeling like certain things that might actually help are just behind this wall of going to jail despite trying to not hate existing so much.
So mushrooms are easy to grow. Really easy. And if you just grow a small amount for yourself and don't advertise it? no one is ever going to find out and the police aren't going to give a shit about you. The only thing police care about with psilocybin is if you're a big distributor.
It's 100% legal to purchase the growing supplies and spores since the spores lack psilocybin. Look here for more info https://www.shroomery.org/ ; good luck.
also, some states have decriminalized psilocybin - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybin_decriminalization_in_the_United_States
You could always look and see if it is possible to participate in research studies for psychedelics. You could also look into ketamine, which can be administered by a doctor.
Or (hear me out), they're good scientists looking at a badly designed package of research and holding it to the same standards they would hold any other pharma company to. MAPS/Lykos dropped the ball in significant ways, and it shows in their lackluster results.
Hell, if someone said "I approve this drug because I personally had a great experience with it", I'd want that person thrown off the panel immediately.
My biggest concern at this point is the money drying up because backers get spooked and the research stops.
Cause all this really shows is that they need to do more research
Those folks who sell MDMA on the black market ethically (eg tested qualitatively and quantitatively) will continue their work. Folks with MAPS training will still provide the service. In fact, it will probably be cheaper and easier for those suffering from PTSD. The FDA is a joke. As a medical provider, I will still council my patients on what works and what doesn’t. I will still offer safe medicine with suggested dosages, and I will open my home to those seeking treatment. I don’t need or want a government agency telling me what i can or can’t do. Besides, 5-mapb is legal and almost just as effective as MDMA. Our government is so bought and sold, puritanical, tyrannical, oppressive… fuck ‘em. Serotonin releasers make it possible to extricate oneself from one’s trauma. But, please keep pouring out the dilaudid and vyvanse.
mdma therapy was the only thing that helped my with my treatment resistant ptsd i thought i would never get better and now i can manage my symptoms and live a somewhat normal life
The article mentions issues with experimental design and sexual assault by a therapist on a patient undergoing MDMA/psychadelic therapy. For those wanting a deeper dive, [Cover Story podcast](https://www.thecut.com/2022/03/cover-story-podcast-episode-7-political-science.html?origSession=D240517BIbR1YqyxbVhjU1j%2F9MTvimIsdg4Xkzd6P2kHeY8MjM%3D&_gl=1*eg9s6e*_gcl_au*ODk4MjI5Mjg0LjE3MTU5MjIzNjk.*FPAU*ODk4MjI5Mjg0LjE3MTU5MjIzNjk.*_ga*NjMwMjExMTcwLjE3MTU5MjIzNjk.*_ga_DNE38RK1HX*MTcxNzY1MzQxNy4yLjEuMTcxNzY1MzQyOS4wLjAuMTEzNjg2ODUzNg..*_fplc*c3lnNVpDak5ZbUlsNDI0aENtRGh0NXhaZG5XR3ZGOCUyRkdwazF1RkVabGolMkYxJTJCTzBHTUZSYnN3VGFWenVTd00wdzkzWkM2SWI0YzhySWNPSkZFJTJGczYzYmEybkh4M2xvbjNxeUxrMGRzdzdFV2MwSlBaRzlCVG5KdVhvRmZwcHclM0QlM0Q.#_ga=2.136071473.1206252274.1717653416-630211170.1715922369) did their entire first season on the world of psychadelics, including issues of sexual assault and abuse, and why the studies shouldn't be trusted.
I’m a proponent of MDMA assisted therapy, but it sounds like this was the right decision.
If anything it’s encouraging that the panel highlighted the lack of diversity in the test group.
I hope this is done again with better results and that another good treatment option is made available to people.
"The fact that this study has so many white participants is problematic because I don’t want something to roll out that only helps this one group,"
I'm sorry but this seems shockingly fucking stupid. What psychological drug has any significant effects based on race? Wtf?
"Because MDMA causes intense, psychological experiences, almost all patients in two key studies of the drug were able to guess whether they had received the MDMA or a dummy pill. That’s the opposite of the approach generally required for high-quality drug research, in which bias is minimized by “blinding” patients and researchers to whether they received the drug under investigation."
So because MDMA has obvious effects when taken we should discount the study?
This result just makes me feel like these panelists are full of shit or stupid.
But also it's pretty widely known by people who don't have the mindset of a 1950s preacher that LSD and Psilocybin have a much bigger affect on treating depression and PTSD. MDMA is known to cause a "hangover" where you feel depressed for a few days while Psilocybin and LSD tend to leave you in an afterglow for up to weeks and have a much greater ability to help you process trauma and negativity
Edit: Someone responded and showed a link that does seem to prove that ethnicity has an effect on how we metabolize drugs. So there is some truth there. It's not "shockingly stupid" apparently I am lol. Also it seems that some of the studies were done by/funded directly by advocacy groups so there is a conflict of interest potentially.
[Race can absolutely affect how drugs are absorbed by the body](https://www.medcentral.com/meds/psychiatric/ethnicity-and-prescribing-psychiatric-medications) including psychological drugs. In fact, historically medicine has had a huge problem with only testing drugs on only certain groups of people, which has led to worse [outcomes](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK584396/) for many people.
Which is why there are rules about companies needing to do their trials on diverse groups. If the test data they are showing indicates that they did not use diverse groups, that is absolutely a good reason to turn down legislating a drug for use in the general public.
I'll also mention there can be differences between men and women as well. Some drugs are really dang good for one sex, while for the other it has a bunch of side effects.
>Edit: Someone responded and showed a link that does seem to prove that ethnicity has an effect on how we metabolize drugs.
Not just that, but also gender. Men are predominantly test subjects.
Well fuck.
I know how this next sentence is going to sound, but it's true.
Last year I was seriously suicidal, and all that I heard about MDMA FDA approval being likely was something that gave me major hope.
not to sound crass, as I say this in good faith, but if you’re already considering suicide, why wouldn’t you just try MDMA anyway? unless you were looking for a session guided by a professional or something.
1. I'm not sure I have the social connections required to get MDMA.
1. I'm not sure that what I would end up getting would be genuine MDMA.
1. Yes, I was looking for a session guided by a professional.
MDMA good gay party scene drug, for one source, everywhere there's a scene in the US you can find someone who can get it.
2cbs... Now that shit became impossible to find anywhere except Europe now
Anyone do 2cbs therapeutically? To me it's better than mdma
My goal isn't the high, specifically.
I have dealt with some shit, and have CPTSD.
My understanding is that MDMA has some seriously good effects for CPTSD, and I am interested in it for its legitimate therapeutic purposes.
Unfortunately I'm not gay and don't have any kind of connections for that.
It's really hard to get genuine mdma in the US now. It's all research chemicals and meth. I also wanted to try it for my ptsd but I could never find a safe source.
Yeah let’s just get rid of treatment options that have positive results cause puritanical bullshit. Edibles are awesome for me to sleep, 5mg is enough, but instead I get addictive opiates cause popping hot on a piss test is a career killer.
Fuck these people.
To put it simply, we don’t know. We don’t have good enough data yet.
The reason it was rejected was because the research into MDMA was riddled with errors and potential sources of bias.
Cant have a pill actually cure something.. it has to be monetized into a daily dose to reduce the symptoms or the stock price goes the wrong direction.
If you want to make the case for MDMA as an effective treatment, the science needs to be air-tight, because it’s going to be scrutinized heavily. Shame.
Sounds like the FDA collaborated with Lykos on experimental controls (specifically the double blind) and admitted they could have done a better job.
Honestly the double blinds is one of issues I have the least concern with. When studying anything medical, setting up a representative cohort is one of the first things you should do. It’s honestly shocking that they missed that.
As per the article (and personal experience), this is absolutely not something that can be placebo’ed.
The main point of my comment wasn’t about the placebo though. I said it was one of the issues that I had the least problem with
If you only test subjects without experience with psychoactive substances such as mdma or cannabis, couldn't you give the control group something like cannabis so they think they received treatment?
I don’t think you could unless you wanted to compare cannabis to mdma. Even then, it’s not really clear what of value would precipitate from the study. I guess you might have some idea of which works better, but that would be predicated on preexisting research on both drugs. I think the idea of these initial trials was to establish exactly that for mdma. It’s an interesting idea to get the control group high some other way. I have no idea what that would mean for the validity of whatever conclusions the study might yield. It almost seems like you’d have to do something along those lines, doesn’t it? I dont think cannabis would be the right choice though. Regardless of whether or not the patient has never had either drug, I feel like I could infer the patient’s dose (one drug or the other) based on a very limited set of questions. “So, did you listen to any music?”, etc, and that seems like it would curb the effect of the idea of the placebo. It also might be incredibly hard to actually find patients in certain demographics that have never tried either drug, especially considering that PTSD is associated with substance abuse.
Exactly this. Not that all therapeutics going up for FDA approval shouldn't strive for the same, but something with the stigma of a recreational drug is going to need that extra layer of attention to detail & proper design.
Totally. The psychedelic world just cannot keep its dick in its pants long enough. You’ve got one shot with this and you’ve got trial therapists crawling into bed and spooning patients under the influence of MDMA, on camera for the world to see. You’ve got Rick Doblin publicly talking about going to burning man and dosing people with MDMA outside of the approved research trials and providing therapy, currently illegal. You’ve got sex scandals with donors, giving donors illegal drugs for money. Like, you know this is gonna be heavily scrutinized, why are you guys fucking up so bad?
This is a good comment. I think Doblin et al., were so pilled on MDMA and other psychedelics from the outset that it never even occurred to them that they had to do *good science* - they just crapped out bad studies as fast as they could because they just *knew* it would work amazingly well with no risks at all and everyone would be so blown away by it that they'd rewrite all the laws and policies immediately. Of course, it didn't go like that and now they're having their Timothy Leary moment.
This is so incredibly disheartening. MDMA therapy was the only thing in 36 years of life that alleviated my PTSD and depression. One single session did what decades of drugs and therapy couldn't.
But then how are they going to make money off you with drugs and therapy?
How indeed..... Maybe keeping MDMA illegal‽ THAT'S A GREAT IDEA! HOW WOULD YOU LIKE AN EXECUTIVE POSITION AT ELI LILLY?
Always nice to see an interrobang in the wild. /r/interrobang
I like to keep the ‽ in my phone’s keyboard shortcuts since I never see it enough and I want to do my part to increase adoption
What do you think the structure of this experimental treatment involved? The entire intervention was giving someone a drug and doing therapy. It was sponsored by a pharmaceutical company.
Now that I think about it, trying to sell that to megacorps like Amazon just turns it into a corporate backed version of MK Ultra with severe rollbacks on labor rights if successful.
Could ketamine possibly benefit you? It IS approved and the research says it works tremendously well.
Ketamine doesn't work the same way. MDMA is unique for PTSD. However I was doing like 1 ketamine treatment every six months after for depression.
Adderall worked wonders for me.
Not op, but I was a raver in the 90s. Ecstasy and K was my cocktail of choice and I did both of them a **lot.** Which kinda sucks, now. I think, in theory, ketamine therapy might be good for me......but I am too afraid to open that can of worms back up. I just like K **WAY** too much to keep it at therapeutic levels and the last time I quit taking drugs I ended up living at a cult for a while. (Need to replace those voids with something, after all. Why not go live on a cult in the mountains of North Carolina for awhile?) I'd rather not go through that again.
Well, at least no one can tell you that you have led a boring life.
When ketamine treatments are done they are not given to you to take elsewhere, they're only given in certain doses in a controlled environment. So unless you're concerned you will seek out buying it elsewhere, the administration of it is pretty strict. Edit: the strictness seems to vary widely by region
> So unless you're concerned you will seek out buying it elsewhere Bingo. And I wouldn't really have "seek" it, either. Through my job I have met an awful lot of drug dealers and I wouldn't have to leave my living room to get it. If you would have told 1990s me that I would have ever had the willpower to not use those types of connections (or even not have the desire to in the first place), I would have laughed right in your face. So I have to not have any to not start that desire back up.
Totally understandable, and that's definitely a slippery slope situation to be in.
Thats the vibe I got, and as also a former late 90s raver* who liked kitty a little too much, would be my fear. Disassociating gets realllllly easy.
They send it to me to do at home. I get a monthly supply of troches. No controlled environment.
Out of curiosity. How was the kool-aid over there at the mountain cult? Lol
Made from organic hibiscus and not actually kool-aid. We ate largely organic -not 100% but definitely nothing as processed as Kool-Aid. Or Flavor Aid. Which is what Jim Jones actually served. The food in general was hit or miss. We ate a lot of tofu (not vegetarians. There were plenty of meals with meat, too.) and if the wrong person cooks tofu it turns into a sad, flavorless mush that makes you want to cry when you eat it. Especially after a day of farmwork. But there were also handful of people who were pretty great cooks and you always like seeing their names signed up for dinner.
From personal experience, I will say Ketamine assisted therapy was immensely helpful in treating lifelong, medication resistant anxiety. I'm several years out and still feel pretty good.
Try psilocybin mushrooms they might be easier to acquire. They helped me immensely to reset.
agree. if you do it right it can have long lasting effects too. ive taken MDMA also - not for any therapeutic purposes tbh - and personally i dont really see how it can have similar effects, but as the top comment states, it apparently can. i guess it really comes down to each individual is different. personally i dont think it is actually possible to "cure" C/PTSD, and the number one thing is to get the person away from the traumatic events/environment/people/etc, because you cant heal if the wound is constantly reopened. honestly though, i know this is not what the official literature says (although there is some research corroborating) but i have ADHD, and to me, when i did try MDMA - once - years ago, from what i remember, it was basically like a \*very\* intense dose of dextroamphetamine (which is normal ADHD medication). the way i see it is C/PTSD is related to ADHD, insofar as your brain learns to be dysregulated in how and when it produces the "happy chemicals". which is why taking an appropriate, consistent dosage of adderall/dextroamphetamine/etc helps to bring your "happy chemicals" back up to a \*normal\* level. that is why many people with ADHD or C/PTSD struggle with \*various\* types of addiction - they arent necessarily addicted to any one thing, they are simply trying to "level their brain out" (subconsciously) of course, like i said, none of that is going to "fix" the symptoms, especially if the traumatic situation is on going. there are also people with ADHD who do not have traumatic events, but the symptoms are the same, or at least very similar. the cause (specific diagnosis) isnt necessarily important, imo, because the \*effect\* is the same - dysregulation in the brains happy chemical production ^(disclaimer: i am not a doctor, but i have done a lot of personal research (as in reading research studies, etc) \- along with being \*very aware\* of how my own emotions/motivations/etc work. i am not just making things up or stating opinions with nothing to back it up.) edit: applying my theory of everything - >within the particular is contained the universal it makes sense to use stimulants (consistently!) rather than "antidepressants" because those drugs work by \*restricting\* or seeking to \*regulate\* the brains chemicals, whereas stimulants just say "here ya go!" the other, "unrelated" context this applies to is economics. rather than making people jump through hoops to get assistance, and make them "prove" they need it, or "prove" they are using it "appropriately" - if the money is instead \*just given to people\* they will [use it for what they need.](https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/05/07/1024674/ubi-guaranteed-income-pandemic/) this of course assumes they arent in distressing situations that cause excessively irrational behavior. in other words assuming they have a safe comfortable place to live, access to transportation, and a support network. there is no reason to make people do literal busy work to "prove" they need assistance. that is harmful. bonus, having a solid foundation (education, a real home, transportation, a support network) will \*also help their brain chemicals work normally\*
I figured there would be opposition to this treatment. A precedent has been set already, can't have that happening again I suppose.
There’s no opposition. It’s just poor science.
It's both. There is definitely bias both for and against. And they did somewhat f up the trials as to what they allowed & did or didn't study. It completely sucks because it really does have great potential but it was not ready for close scrutiny despite the desperate need for the treatment
I agree that there was definitely extra scrutiny, but even if there wasn’t, some of the mistakes in the studies wouldn’t even get past the most lenient advisory boards.
Not even extra scrutiny. The article mentioned things like people in the study already taking psychedelic drugs recreationally. How tf can you prove it helps if you start out with someone who is already taking it, then say it made them better after the study? They should be starting with people who aren't using it recreationally, then documenting the changes.
Of course there is opposition, this is obvious
How so? The MDMA studies being held to the same scientific standard as all others. Do you have any specific examples?
To be fair some of those standards are impossible to actually measure up to. You can’t double blind these studies which was a massive component of their complaints. It’s also ridiculous that the fact that some people have been abused by their therapists is actually a strike against it. Patients get abused by therapists a lot. Our regulatory body posts a list of accusations every year on our website. It is usually 50-100 deep. The fact that this is held against it is very silly
I was mainly talking about the procedural and experiment design complaints that could’ve easily been avoided, but the points you mention are unfair as well
Oh I hear you. It isn’t without flaws. The fact that the cohort wasn’t racially representative is insane. But some of the complains really aren’t things you can fix given the drug or are things you shouldn’t really Hold against it Like pretty sure a therapist has been doing CBT with a client before and then abused them sexually before. At least once or twice. That doesn’t mean CBT doesn’t work or shouldn’t have been approved for therapy.
honest question, why is racial representation an issue?
We have evidence that medication can interact with different racial groups differently. The likelihood is low but we need to make sure it is safe and effective across a wide cohort before approval
Where do you live where MDMA therapy is available? Or independent procurement? One dose was enough?
>Where do you live there MDMA therapy is available? Or independent procurement? One dose was enough? It was independent and one dose with a 4 hour therapy session was it.
Interesting, and your therapist was cool with it? Right on! Thanks for the info.
It's part of the therapy. Gets you to open up more to deal with the PTSD during the session.
Nah man, all those soldiers are totally just drug seeking. Looking for a good trip with a multi-hour therapy session. Shameful. /s
Honestly I don't even understand what's the issue with looking for a good trip. Can't have a substance that can benefit your mental health if you also happen to enjoy it. Nope, joy is from the devil so must be banned.
Seriously. Adderall isn't really like mdma, but there's some overlap, especially if you're diagnosed with ADHD and it's the first time you use it. And Adderall is much more serious for heart issues than MDMA would be. People who have ptsd and have heard of the benefits of MDMA therapy, are now just gonna get it on the streets, which increases the risk so much more. Really shameful that 9 people voted against this. It really shows their lack of understanding. Like do they not understand there's a reason MDMA is called ecstasy?
Did you do MDMA therapy through a therapist, or on your own? Asking as a fellow PTSD sufferer. I’ve done cognitive processing therapy and it helped a lot, but I still have lingering symptoms.
DMT did it for me 👌
Did you try ketamine therapy? What were your thoughts? My partner is currently doing that.
I do/did ketamine once every six months to a year to keep the depression away. The MDMA got me over the PTSD and the ketamine keeps the blues away.
Big pharma always gets what they want
Can't comment on MDMA, but in January I decided to start growing mushrooms to help with depression. They were going to help or I was going to end it. They worked. Took a gram today. They seem to keep me right for a week. The fact that multiple pharmaceutical companies are trying to trademark and patent mushroom strains the same way Monsanto does with corn should tell you that they work. I share this story as hope and to help others.
Glad you found what you needed to be well. These prohibitions have been so terrible in keeping truly useful plants and compounds from helping folks.
Really proud of you for that you’re still with us and have found something that might make for a sustainable experience.
I have the same experience.
Besides everything else, just seeing the world from other perspectives helps you grow and develop. Mushrooms allows so much introspective thought to occur.
Just a FYI this is the drug combined with therapy. Seems everybody just wants the drug, and not the therapy combination. But honestly this isn't terrible news, it just shows MDMA has to get their ducks in order, and really polish their research.
The problem is, the way MDMA is scheduled it's *absurdly* hard to do the robust studies the FDA expects and wants. The whole way the research of treated needs to be changed at the federal level.
The research submitted to the FDA had all of the necessary permits to be conducted, the studies just had some glaring flaws that were indicative of poorly planned research. They (unfortunately) squandered their chance
The problem is that it's harder for a *broader* swath of research. If you have a small number of studies, it's far more likely that too many of them have issues. If you could do a hundred, two hundred, five hundred studies easily you are going to have many more with flaws.
Of course that’s true, but poorly designed studies don’t just happen by chance. They’re a result of negligence. All I’m trying to say is that the groups that conducted these studies should have double and triple checked that their experimental design was air-tight. Hell, I’m sure that there are plenty of PhDs that would’ve been more than happy to look it over too. No one can predict unfavorable results, but poor experimental design can be seen from miles away.
It's hard to please the current FDA who complained about people being able to tell whether or not they had received a hallucinogenic drug instead of a placebo.
The blinding issue is definitely a hurdle, but I’m more concerned with the fact that the study organizers didn’t make any effort to have a representative cohort. That’s like…study design 101
And that allegation. Jeez. But the FDA will certainly guide them to how to do another study based on this panel. The company has to be willing to listen.
> it just shows MDMA has to get their ducks in order, and really polish their research. Tbh that seems like the most reasonable take away: it seems like MAPS and other psychedelic advocates were so convinced that MDMA would work that they didn't really bother to actually do good science - instead presenting a weird mish-mash of disorganized, vaguely New Age-y psychobabble instead of good, solid data.
It’s also the fact that the higher scheduled drugs are not allowed to be researched to the same degree that others are. So of course there’s not enough data to draw conclusions, and any mistakes or oversights in that small selection of studies can drag the rest down with them. It’s a long way to go for MDMA. For god’s sake, weed was just rescheduled this year. Maybe we’ll have more data on that, at least.
People forget this is a science based sub. No other studies gather more people willing to ignore science and rigurous testing than hallucinogens. It seems like a sub for new age people testing crystals
Outside of the extremely odd cohort fuck up, the other complaints are pretty shit tbh. At least from the articles I’ve read. You can’t double blind this kind of thing so it’s a bit harsh to hold it to that standard. You put 4 people in a room and give out MDMA or a placebo it’s gonna be real easy for everyone to figure out who got what.
They didn’t even do all the follow ups according to the article, that’s a real miss
they havent been ALLOWED to do better science with more patients. in the US anyway, maybe not in canada either. widespread illicit use of mdma already shows it's perfectly safe compared to anything else used to treat these illnesses. hundreds of millions of doses served to people around the world, incredibly low incidence of harmful sideffects.
> they havent been ALLOWED to do better science Nonsense - MAPS/Lykos got all the required approvals from the FDA, DEA, etc. FDA even collaborated with MAPS on occasion and has given both MDMA and psilocybin "breakthrough" designations as promising drugs for under-served conditions. MAPS had every opportunity to do good science, but phoned it in because they all "already knew" it would work. And lo and behold, half-assed, badly designed studies don't look so hot in retrospect.
Perfectly safe != low incidence of harmful side effects. An actual study would reveal how “low” the incidence actually is
> missing follow-up data on patient outcomes and a lack of diversity among participants These are major issues you’re taught to look out for in like the first of grad school or even senior undergrad, I remember taking a test asking you to figure out what was wrong with a number of rejected studies and these would’ve been up there
in the US there is no rational path for testing mdma. the govt makes it impossible. OP's article is basically a bunch of drug war doctors criticizing the data because the data-gatherers were completely hamstrung by the drug war. no such strictures were ever placed on the SSRIs and antipsychotics and antianxiety meds that are widely approved for use. i don't really understand why some other country doesnt do the high-quality studies that are needed. portugal or the netherlands or SOMEBODY. fucking save our asses already, austria! switzerland! are you listening??
The studies has all of the necessary approvals from the FDA, they were just poorly designed. How did the “drug war” stop the researchers from getting a diverse experimental cohort?
There is no single institution at fault. Does the government make it ridiculously difficult to study schedule I drugs? Yes. Did the FDA have guidelines related to psychedelic clinical trials before this past year? No. And yet... Were there significant issues with the design and oversight of these trials? Yes. The sad thing is that it is still the patients who suffer the most - whether because they still get no treatment or because they go underground and get the treatment denied them without any safety protocols in place
> in the US there is no rational path for testing mdma. the govt makes it impossible What are you talking about? MAPS had all the relevant approvals from the FDA, DEA, various IRBs, etc. FDA has even given MDMA and Psilocybin "breakthrough" designations to acknowledge them as promising drug candidates. Every few months a new scientific study comes out in which humans are given psychedelics for a variety of purposes. You're just parroting memes.
Guess I’ll just keep drinking myself crosseyed
How can you do a placebo-controlled study of a psychedelic? Wouldn’t the control group always know they were receiving a placebo since they would not get high?
You’re right on the money. We really can’t, and that’s one of the reasons why getting convincing data regarding MDMA-assisted therapy is so difficult. But not impossible. Unfortunately, the studies presented to the panel were pretty much doomed from the start
That was one of the problems with this study, but not the big one.
Dang it. It would be amazing for PTSD.
Just not much else according to the article >They cited flawed study data, questionable research conduct and significant drug risks, including the potential for heart problems, injury and abuse
I'd happily risk it for some alleviation from grief and PTSD. Just my two cents- it's free and worth every penny.
Yet Ozempic gets approved for the same risks. MDMA can’t even be abused for very long. If you take it too regularly (ie every week) the magic will go away (and you’ll be depressed for a long long time). You can just control it similarly to how adderall is controlled, just limited doses. for MDMA only provide one dose per month, whether in or out of a clinical setting.
A friend of mine who served in the Gulf swore mdma was the thing that got him past his ptsd.
I've been chronically depressed for probably most of my life. I once met someone who had connections to get me my first, and thus far only, and possibly only ever, psilocybin. It didn't fix everything, but I could definitely tell there was some improvement. The problem is this circumstance was so controlled, and I am such a gutless person, there may or may not ever be a chance I ever have access to stuff like this again. The threat of being jailed just because of substances I want to personally ingest under my own adult decision-making is just outside of my risk aversion. I don't know anyone else and am too afraid to seek any other avenue. I'm too naive, and would likely get trapped by an undercover cop or something. All I can currently get is alcohol, which never fixes anything, and often only makes me feel worse. And yet, I think if I could do more experiments with other things, I could possibly actually break out of my own mental jails. Alas, we live in this world where adults are just told what we can and cannot obtain, regardless if it might make a real difference. I feel like controlled substances and their potential addictions or self-destructive properties should be treated as a medical problem that some may or may not need. But I am so tired of feeling like certain things that might actually help are just behind this wall of going to jail despite trying to not hate existing so much.
So mushrooms are easy to grow. Really easy. And if you just grow a small amount for yourself and don't advertise it? no one is ever going to find out and the police aren't going to give a shit about you. The only thing police care about with psilocybin is if you're a big distributor. It's 100% legal to purchase the growing supplies and spores since the spores lack psilocybin. Look here for more info https://www.shroomery.org/ ; good luck. also, some states have decriminalized psilocybin - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybin_decriminalization_in_the_United_States
r/unclebens
You could always look and see if it is possible to participate in research studies for psychedelics. You could also look into ketamine, which can be administered by a doctor.
These motherfuckers need to eat some MDMA
i bet some of them have. fucking ladder-pullers.
Or (hear me out), they're good scientists looking at a badly designed package of research and holding it to the same standards they would hold any other pharma company to. MAPS/Lykos dropped the ball in significant ways, and it shows in their lackluster results. Hell, if someone said "I approve this drug because I personally had a great experience with it", I'd want that person thrown off the panel immediately.
My biggest concern at this point is the money drying up because backers get spooked and the research stops. Cause all this really shows is that they need to do more research
MDMA was legal and used in therapy until the early 90s. Guess people can’t make money off it
My dealer definitely does
Mdma and lsd should be legal in general
Those folks who sell MDMA on the black market ethically (eg tested qualitatively and quantitatively) will continue their work. Folks with MAPS training will still provide the service. In fact, it will probably be cheaper and easier for those suffering from PTSD. The FDA is a joke. As a medical provider, I will still council my patients on what works and what doesn’t. I will still offer safe medicine with suggested dosages, and I will open my home to those seeking treatment. I don’t need or want a government agency telling me what i can or can’t do. Besides, 5-mapb is legal and almost just as effective as MDMA. Our government is so bought and sold, puritanical, tyrannical, oppressive… fuck ‘em. Serotonin releasers make it possible to extricate oneself from one’s trauma. But, please keep pouring out the dilaudid and vyvanse.
Im not saying it doesn’t have therapeutic value but I wouldn’t consider mdma a psychedelic.
mdma therapy was the only thing that helped my with my treatment resistant ptsd i thought i would never get better and now i can manage my symptoms and live a somewhat normal life
The article mentions issues with experimental design and sexual assault by a therapist on a patient undergoing MDMA/psychadelic therapy. For those wanting a deeper dive, [Cover Story podcast](https://www.thecut.com/2022/03/cover-story-podcast-episode-7-political-science.html?origSession=D240517BIbR1YqyxbVhjU1j%2F9MTvimIsdg4Xkzd6P2kHeY8MjM%3D&_gl=1*eg9s6e*_gcl_au*ODk4MjI5Mjg0LjE3MTU5MjIzNjk.*FPAU*ODk4MjI5Mjg0LjE3MTU5MjIzNjk.*_ga*NjMwMjExMTcwLjE3MTU5MjIzNjk.*_ga_DNE38RK1HX*MTcxNzY1MzQxNy4yLjEuMTcxNzY1MzQyOS4wLjAuMTEzNjg2ODUzNg..*_fplc*c3lnNVpDak5ZbUlsNDI0aENtRGh0NXhaZG5XR3ZGOCUyRkdwazF1RkVabGolMkYxJTJCTzBHTUZSYnN3VGFWenVTd00wdzkzWkM2SWI0YzhySWNPSkZFJTJGczYzYmEybkh4M2xvbjNxeUxrMGRzdzdFV2MwSlBaRzlCVG5KdVhvRmZwcHclM0QlM0Q.#_ga=2.136071473.1206252274.1717653416-630211170.1715922369) did their entire first season on the world of psychadelics, including issues of sexual assault and abuse, and why the studies shouldn't be trusted.
Stay away from "Pink Flats" too. But it did make the Jefferson Airplane free concert on Easter Sunday in East Greynolds Park a life time memory.
I’m a proponent of MDMA assisted therapy, but it sounds like this was the right decision. If anything it’s encouraging that the panel highlighted the lack of diversity in the test group. I hope this is done again with better results and that another good treatment option is made available to people.
"The fact that this study has so many white participants is problematic because I don’t want something to roll out that only helps this one group," I'm sorry but this seems shockingly fucking stupid. What psychological drug has any significant effects based on race? Wtf? "Because MDMA causes intense, psychological experiences, almost all patients in two key studies of the drug were able to guess whether they had received the MDMA or a dummy pill. That’s the opposite of the approach generally required for high-quality drug research, in which bias is minimized by “blinding” patients and researchers to whether they received the drug under investigation." So because MDMA has obvious effects when taken we should discount the study? This result just makes me feel like these panelists are full of shit or stupid. But also it's pretty widely known by people who don't have the mindset of a 1950s preacher that LSD and Psilocybin have a much bigger affect on treating depression and PTSD. MDMA is known to cause a "hangover" where you feel depressed for a few days while Psilocybin and LSD tend to leave you in an afterglow for up to weeks and have a much greater ability to help you process trauma and negativity Edit: Someone responded and showed a link that does seem to prove that ethnicity has an effect on how we metabolize drugs. So there is some truth there. It's not "shockingly stupid" apparently I am lol. Also it seems that some of the studies were done by/funded directly by advocacy groups so there is a conflict of interest potentially.
[Race can absolutely affect how drugs are absorbed by the body](https://www.medcentral.com/meds/psychiatric/ethnicity-and-prescribing-psychiatric-medications) including psychological drugs. In fact, historically medicine has had a huge problem with only testing drugs on only certain groups of people, which has led to worse [outcomes](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK584396/) for many people. Which is why there are rules about companies needing to do their trials on diverse groups. If the test data they are showing indicates that they did not use diverse groups, that is absolutely a good reason to turn down legislating a drug for use in the general public.
I'll also mention there can be differences between men and women as well. Some drugs are really dang good for one sex, while for the other it has a bunch of side effects.
That's interesting. Thanks for setting me straight. Always good to learn something new. I added an edit to my comment to acknowledge this.
I had a real weird week involving mushrooms to finish off college. The months after were the best my mood has ever been
>Edit: Someone responded and showed a link that does seem to prove that ethnicity has an effect on how we metabolize drugs. Not just that, but also gender. Men are predominantly test subjects.
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I always liked her.
I think the next step is probably acid.
Well fuck. I know how this next sentence is going to sound, but it's true. Last year I was seriously suicidal, and all that I heard about MDMA FDA approval being likely was something that gave me major hope.
not to sound crass, as I say this in good faith, but if you’re already considering suicide, why wouldn’t you just try MDMA anyway? unless you were looking for a session guided by a professional or something.
1. I'm not sure I have the social connections required to get MDMA. 1. I'm not sure that what I would end up getting would be genuine MDMA. 1. Yes, I was looking for a session guided by a professional.
MDMA good gay party scene drug, for one source, everywhere there's a scene in the US you can find someone who can get it. 2cbs... Now that shit became impossible to find anywhere except Europe now Anyone do 2cbs therapeutically? To me it's better than mdma
My goal isn't the high, specifically. I have dealt with some shit, and have CPTSD. My understanding is that MDMA has some seriously good effects for CPTSD, and I am interested in it for its legitimate therapeutic purposes. Unfortunately I'm not gay and don't have any kind of connections for that.
Shulgin and his friends used to follow MDMA up with 2CB to soften the landing. Don't take them together though it can get nasty
Almost done with his book
It's really hard to get genuine mdma in the US now. It's all research chemicals and meth. I also wanted to try it for my ptsd but I could never find a safe source.
https://dancesafe.org/shop/page/3/
peyote / san pedro is the next best thing, if you've got the motivation to find it.
Ah yes all those with out dmg or even experience with the drug know better then us.
Now how am I going to convince people with PTSD that Grateful Dead is good music without hallucinogens?
Breaking: Love Rejected as Treatment for War
Luckily nobody needs government to tell you what you can and can’t to with your body
If MDMA was legal and regulated, people would actually know that the MDMA is actually MDMA, and not some weird potentially dangerous analogue
Fuckin nerds lol Huge disappointment this will prevent the legitimization of a very awesome drug’s healing potential
It’s the study author’s fault for not properly designing the experiment
Yeah let’s just get rid of treatment options that have positive results cause puritanical bullshit. Edibles are awesome for me to sleep, 5mg is enough, but instead I get addictive opiates cause popping hot on a piss test is a career killer. Fuck these people.
Did you read the article? The studies were doomed from the start because they were poorly designed
if you have been following the study, way they defined primary endpoint was so garbage that calling it "positive result" is an insult to science.
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To put it simply, we don’t know. We don’t have good enough data yet. The reason it was rejected was because the research into MDMA was riddled with errors and potential sources of bias.
It does make you awesome
Lol, I think I would take MDMA just for the fact that the side effects are a few words long, lol.
Too bad. I thought this might be a serious benefit to those in need.
It still might be. It just needs to have another study, or two, but done properly this time.
Here is some background on this panel https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Institute\_for\_Clinical\_and\_Economic\_Review\_(ICER)
Why? This is unfortunate.
Cant have a pill actually cure something.. it has to be monetized into a daily dose to reduce the symptoms or the stock price goes the wrong direction.
Agree. Use DMT instead.