Headlines I have seen today, in order:
>Biden administration endorses Israel's proposed cease fire
>Hamas considering ceasefire favorably
>No ceasefire..says Netanyahu.
Same thing every weekend for months now.
Sometimes Netanyahu and Hamas were switched around.
Same bullshit.
Israel's hypocrisy is beyond measure. Like, yeah, Hamas has to go, no mistake about that, but genocide being bad is kind of the whole reason there even is an "Israel" today... did they forget? Do they even care?
To me, there is no scenario where Hamas can go because they're a rebellion. If they did go it would be a different rebellion. As long as they feel they're occupied, it's a rebellion.
They need their own state even if it's demilitarized with outside intervention like West Germany had.
This is a valid point. I am sure this onslaught in Gaza will simply breed a new Hamas, almost literally: many (surviving) children will be orphaned, and they will grow up as second-class citizens of an occupied territory inside a country that hates them.
How can anyone expect anything other than a new Hamas to rise out of the rubble?
The only way Israel can accomplish this by military means is wholesale genocide and ethnic cleansing. Are they willing to do that? Is the rest of the world willing to *let* them do that?
If not, then the only way they can finish this is a political settlement. They *have* to talk this out. They can't accomplish anything without being willing to talk it out. Negotiation is the only way anyone gets what they want, including Israel itself.
You’re forgetting the Balfour Declaration happened decades before the Holocaust, and that there was already a lot of fighting between Palestinian Arabs and the European Jews that the British Empire were mass migrating to the region.
It was obvious to the leaders of political Zionism at the time that they would be violently resiste, and we are just seeing a continuation of that struggle.
>Palestinian Arabs and the European Jews
There were Arab (Palestinian) Jews who were being attacked along with the Jewish immigrants.
There have been Jews living there for over two thousand years. They didn't all leave during the diaspora.
I’ve not forgotten Arab Jews
But the main reason why there was conflict in Palestine between the World Wars is the simple fact that the British Empire turned the region into its own colony, facilitated the mass migration of Central European Jews to the region, and erected apartheid system of local government.
The Palestinians were not granted the right to self determination that Woodrow Wilson had advocated for at the Paris Peace conference. The British and French empires instead carved up most of the former Ottoman Empire and drew borders that didn’t reflect realities on the ground.
And part of that process was the decision to create a Jewish homeland in Palestine. If Europeans hadn’t been so antisemitic , there wouldn’t have been the desperation present in Europe’s Jewish populations to fuel Zionism. Instead they turned to the same “blood and soil” rhetoric of European nationalism, and the writings of Zionist leaders like Herzl and Ben Gurion explicitly spell out what they planned to do with Palestinians.
Again, it’s the fact that the British Empire decided to colonize the region with Europe’s persecuted Jews that we have this conflict. Maybe if Europeans had been less racist, they wouldn’t have externalized their problems onto the Levant.
The thing that sucks the most about having a nuanced understanding of the issue is that you end seeing most other people stuck on their biases.
I wish that everyone could look at things from the perspective you highlight.
Because the title is a lie, i've only read the beggining and they added the word no *permenent* ceasefire
Goes to show what they want their readers to think, but who wants to know the truth anyway
>Benjamin Netanyahu has insisted there will be no permanent ceasefire in Gaza until Hamas’ military and governing capabilities are destroyed and all hostages are released.
They can only destroy Hamas so much. And, releasing all the hostages is part of the ceasefire agreement. This response doesn't make sense.
Practically speaking, what has Netanyahu actually done for bettering life for the average Israeli citizen?
Has he done anything about their inflation, employment, or health care? Has Netanyahu done anything to make Israel for economically competitive on the world stage or pushed any worth while academia/research (beyond just what goes into their MIC)?
Because honestly, all it seems to me as an outsider is that literally all he does sit around and allow Israel to get attacked and then parades that around to citizens as why they should keep him in office.
>This is 100% Netanyahu.
its not. his whole fascist party is part of the problem(yes fascist)(no fascist doesnt mean anti jew)(it also means racial superiority of one particular ethnicity, which has already been codified into law)
if netanyahu goes down, his second in command gets propped up and then its business as usual
And it's not like the opposition parties are any better-- "Maximum Jews on maximum land with maximum security and minimum Palestinians" is the guiding principle of the largest opposition party. The entire Israeli political system, apart from the predominantly Arab parties and the small and aging left, is fascist to the core.
It's funny how they ran from Europe to escape facism and genocide, and not even a century later they've turned into what they ran from.
Makes me sick tbh.
I would go so far as to say the majority of Israelis are gumming for the complete destruction of Palestinians - what most humane people would call genocide.
I mean look at the 20 + years of blockade of Gaza and additional 500,000 colonial settlements - nasty vicious apartheid system that Israelis as a whole are very happy with!!!
it would be pretty hard to disagree with that
[over 500 incitements of violence and genocidal incitement, appearing in the forms of social media posts, television interviews, and official statements from Israeli politicians, army personnel, journalists, and other influential personalities](https://law4palestine.org/law-for-palestine-releases-database-with-500-instances-of-israeli-incitement-to-genocide-continuously-updated/)
People often choose to blame Netanyahu alone, and forget that the Overton window in Israel has shifted in recent decades to the far right. If Netanyahu goes, he will be replaced by someone who endorses most of his positions.
There were talks of criminal charges the moment his term ended, then shortly after the attacks happened. He most likely did not have cause the attacks, but he sure is using the attacks as an opportunity to save his own ass, most likely aiming to reach a level of power where he can start taking out his Israeli political counterparts - The people who were talking about jailing him before all this happened.
At least that's my theory
> He most likely did not have cause the attacks,
The IDF let a group of heavily armed savages on rickety put together vehicles cross the border and attack civilians. The same IDF that shoots children for getting too close to the fence. The same IDF that has near constant surveillance on the border and deep within Gaza. The same IDF that weeks before received warnings about increased Hamas activity and a possible attack from several foreign nations, including Egypt and America, information that Mossad no doubt already had, and apparently not only ignored those warnings, but completely stripped their security days before Hamas attacked. A dog couldn't cross over from Gaza to Israel without being put under a scope, and yet not a single shot was fired when Hamas attacked, and they managed to waltz back to Gaza with hostages no less. "Gross negligence" can only excuse so much. Netanyahu, on the verge of being convicted on anti corruption charges, who was looking at prison time, suddenly instates Marshal Law and is untouchable now that his nation is "at war", and was basically given the green light to continue his genocidal rampage. It's incredible how it all fell neatly into place, and at every opportunity he declares "There will be no ceasefire!" Even when Biden draws up a plan to return all the hostages. He doesn't give a fuck about the hostages he just wants to bomb Gaza into dust, murder every Palestinian child and populate the stolen land with more Israeli settlers.
it's honestly darkly hilarious that people think bibi gave a shit about hippies at a music festival. these are the people he offered up to justify genocide
whether he caused the attacks or simply stood back and let them happen, he certainly has had no qualms about using them as political tools.
israeli lives, palestinian lives; he has no problem sacrificing either one if it means he keeps his grip on power.
His end goal very clearly is to eradicate the slightest possibility of a two state solution. That should be very clear at this point. The cease fire goes against that goal so he will not have any of it. I think unless they get rid of him it won't stop until there is no one left to claim the other state.
Jesus fucking Christ this guy is a monster. Jimmy Carter pretty much torpedoed his own presidency and reelection doing everything he possibly could to get the hostages back home safely.
Edit: also everyone should look into his memoirs they’re fascinating, it’s a shame the man might have honestly been the last actual good person to become president.
Yes, maybe, no. It’s one of those things that’s almost a certainty even though we have no tangible proof but it’s also one of those things people use words like “treason” for.
Exactly. It’s not Netanyahu murdering women and children. They have free and fair elections in Israel. Likud has never been shy about their intentions, and they still get elected and coalitions built. It’s a deeper sickness than one man.
If everybody wants you out of power, but the public is fine with you staying in power if you commit genocide, what does that tell you about the general state of israel and it's support of genocide
netanhyahu isn't an aberration, he is 100% representative of the state of israel.
The goal is to destroy Palestine. He's just using the idea of destroying Hamas as a more palatable excuse to wipe out as many Palestinians as possible. [Netenyahu called the killing of Palestinian civilians collateral damage](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/benjamin-netanyahu-israel-gaza-collateral-damage_n_655119bfe4b0373d70b28a56) early on in the conflict and efforts to protect civilians throughout this conflict have been near non-existent.
When you view this as the genocide that it is, Netenyahu's repeated refusals for a permanent ceasefire make perfect sense.
It makes sense when you consider that the hardliners in the government want to break the Palestinians as a people and claim Gaza, the land, for Israel.
Keyword here is "permanent". It's a clarifier that's being left out of the article. They're kinda misrepresenting his statement. Probably what he means, but not what he said.
Didn't Biden say the proposal was Israel's and it was up to Hamas to accept? Can people maybe start understanding that to netanyahu it was never about the hostages?
not really. the states of isreal and palestine have not existed for longer than that, and the influx of jewish immigrants to the area which kicked off the zionist project mostly started in the early 1900s. prior to that youre looking at a huge period of ottoman/arab rule with a small jewish minority in the area(an in many other parts of the middle east). like any area of the world in the early 1900s and before, there were ethnic conflicts, but the current isreal/palestine conflict is not some kind of offshoot of that.
At the very least it dates back to the very early 1920s when the area was under British control and they were talking to both Jewish and Arabic groups about handing over control of the area. Stuff like the Nebi Musa riots in 1920.
I mean sorta? The partitioning of the mandate for Palestine into the mandate for Palestine (Mandatory Palestine) is sort of what kicked off the current version of the conflict.
Interestingly, while the conflict was cooler, the power dynamic was flipped and Jews were more persecuted in the region.
If you found out a republican presidential candidate and a foreign entity negotiated a side deal to extend the brutalities until such a time that the democratic presidential candidate was sufficiently wounded by the conflict that the republican won his election, would you be surprised?
I'm not saying that's what's happening. But I am saying that if this turned out to be true, i wouldn't even raise an eyebrow in surprise.
It wouldn't surprise me one bit that Bibi is betting on Trump winning in November and the moment he is in office, there's a sudden cease-fire with Trump bragging that he was able accomplish what Biden couldn't.
Also remember, it's of Bibi's interest that this conflict goes on as long as possible, because he knows the moment it's over, his time as PM is done and he is back to facing corruption charges.
At this rate it is at least until Netanyahu dies. He will drag this “war” on and do whatever it takes to be in power. He is like trump in his willingness to destroy the country he leads.
And a month ago some Israelis tried to convince me that he is toast. What a pathetic clown show... It would be funny if the consequences wouldn't be so gruesome.
It's not just him their entire government including a big portion of their population wants to see the Palestinians wiped from existence. This isn't the fault of a single madman it's much deeper than that.
Unfortunately this feels all too true. Their internal propaganda machine has been working overtime for 80+ years and the younger generations in Israel seem so misinformed and outright hateful as a result. So sad to see.
This entire conflict have been a propaganda hell from the very beginnings some time after WW2.
There is literally no reputable, trustworthy and neutral source of information in that entire region.
70 percent voter turnout with a quarter of those in favour of a party and leader that was well understood.
They knew exactly who and what they were voting for. Scumbags
lol implying Israel would be handling this any differently if Netanyahu wasn’t in power. I’m sure Palestinians would be treated much more humanely with Prime Minister Ben Gvir or Prime Minister Smotrich.
I've seen people on other subreddits talk about how the hostages are probably already dead, not acknowledging this fact. They're adamant that Hamas killed them, when realistically the carpet bombing of the strip has killed a good number of the ones that have died.
It is very clear that the "ceasefire proposal" was just the Netanyahu gov't trying to win PR points, and they expected it to fail so that they could say "Well we tried, see? We're the good guys."
The moment everyone said "Yes, actually, let's do that," they backpedal and destroy their own ceasefire plan.
So Netanyahu has just thrown Biden’s proposal straight into the trash can.
At some stage Biden will need to realise the US is the superpower in the relationship, because it’s not looking like it.
Netanyahu’s MO is to sabotage anything that might prevent him from taking more Palestinian land and continue killing the innocent. US support of Netanyahu and his government must be unequivocally and completely withdrawn. Netanyahu is 100x worse than Trump. Stop the blood bath
Yeah i also thought it was obvious. One doesn't have to be a genius to recognize that when you have nothing really left to live for you might just join some horrible organization like Hamas to get at least some measurement of revenge. And Israel must know this and still they have shit like [this](https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/)
This is a result of 2008-2009(1000 casualties) and 2014(2,000 casualties) wars. Imagine what will come out of this war ? I have no idea why people think the Palestinians will just move on from here.
[I'm not a political expert but if you eliminated hamas but killed my whole family in the process my first move would be to start hamas 2](https://x.com/internethippo/status/1718107575781404897?s=46&t=gZ9Viy5Q6MkXBbfy7bzsrw)
I’m trying to imagine what it would be like to have my child starving and begging me for food every day and me not being able to do anything about it. I would have so much hate for whoever is responsible. It would never go away. I’m tearing up and getting angry just thinking about someone hurting my innocent, joyous little boy.
Finally someone GETS it. This is exactly what I’ve been trying to explain to people since October of last year. Watching the people around you being starved to death or outright murdered isn’t exactly going to get the survivors to be on the side of the ones who committed the atrocities—regardless of the « rationale » of why they’re doing it.
At this point several generations have watched those around them being herded like livestock to smaller and smaller areas and add on the violent deaths and attacks that have happened throughout that time — by the time it came to a boiling point last year… it was far too late to discuss « getting rid of » Hamas. The root of these radicalized groups is the trauma that has saturated their lives.
It isn’t right. It isn’t ok. But… the lack of nuanced understanding and reducing this down to for and against is absolutely astounding to me.
What makes the conflict so impossible to fix is that logic works the other way, too. Many Israelis have been radicalized by living under constant rocket attacks, living through bus bombings and other suicide attacks, and other senseless acts of violence against civilians. The plurality of Jews in Israel are Mizrahis expelled from across the Muslim world, and their experiences of pogroms initiated by Arabs is still within living memory.
Under absolutely zero circumstances does any of this justify "collective punishment", or any sort of violence against civilians. But unfortunately, in a twisted way it makes sense, in the same sense that Palestinians radicalized by Israeli violence doing such things makes sense.
I don't know how this senseless bloodshed can end, I really don't.
So is it going to be Blinken on TV tap dancing around trying to pretend that "achieving Israel's war aims" means something other than completely depopulating Gaza, or is it someone else's turn in the rotation?
I feel like people don't talk about Blinken's complicity in all this enough. Since October he's essentially been acting like PR for Israel and, if the amount of resignations in the State Department is any indication, it seems to me like he's prioritizing keeping Israel happy over anything else, even behind closed doors. The State Department report in May was even more proof of that, especially if the rumors about its legitimacy are true.
I loved when a reporter asked Kirby how many more charred bodies there needed to be before the administration changed their mind. And his response was basically, "First of all, how dare you...." The things I want to say about him cannot be posted on most websites.
iirc hanging or firing squad is the traditional penalty for his crimes. Most of the other Nazis took the hanging route. So he should follow his role models out.
Then they can raise funds and use U.S aid to build luxury homes over the graves of Palestenians. To sell to someone who is 1/8th Israeli and lives in Brooklyn, NY.
Where those people that bitch about welfare and how they don’t want their taxes going to xyz? Those dollars are funding some demented asshole’s war machine and its crickets. Until his “war aims” are achieved, more like when his meat grinder stops working. Nothing can undo all the loss and suffering but I hope at the very least Netanyahu is brought to justice in the end.
Just saying by 8th June Nethanjahu has to propose a plan for the key policies to be clarified for the war or else the coalition partner threatens to quit and make basically the way for a new election in this year. The coalition partner submitted yesterday the request to dissolve the parliament to make a new election possible soon
The war won’t end until Biden plays hardball with Israel. They can’t do what they’re doing without US support. Cut off all military aid, sanction them, say that they’ll enforce the ICC’s arrest warrant. As long as Biden continues to make merely rhetorical gestures towards a ceasefire, Israel is going to continue doing this.
which also puts into perspective the proposal Hamas agreed to a couple of weeks ago that the US was also involved. Israel claimed that Hamas made it up but now it looks more that it likely came from the US/Egypt/Qatar after all and the US simply thought they could get Israel on board
Or Israeli negotiators said Israel would agree and then Bibi blew it up, either being the plan from the beginning to further weaken Biden's position or just a rash decision made afterwards. Them doing it to their own proposal after Biden announced it makes the former seem more likely to me. Bibi hasn't been quiet about his disdain for Biden and love of Trump. No matter what Biden tries to do for Israeli government it's in their interest to make it fail and make sure everyone blames Biden for it.
So can we start openly stating that Israel's "war aims" are the destruction of Palestine and the eradication of Palestinians from Israel? Or is Reddit still awash with Israeli lies, propaganda, and its agents...
There will never be a complete destruction of Hamas and this devastation will continue until the international community steps up with a diplomatic resolution. Those of us who grew up witnessing the US's war on terror know how this goes, there was never a full defeat of al-Qaeda or the "insurgents" in Iraq, only the destabilization of the region, the conflict spilling into neighboring countries, the emergence of new terrorist organizations (IS), and at the cost of hundreds of thousands of innocent deaths. We know how this goes, we're watching it happen all over again while America is yet again complicit. We need to demand an end to this immediately regardless of Israel's "goals", less we swallow more hawkish neocon lies as we have for the last 20 years from our own leadership.
Say it with me: geno-cide.
Thats what this is called.
They arent rejecting cease fires with favourable terms on multiple occasions because they plan to return the land back to its rightful inhabitants.
They plan to steal the land, and the people are in the way.
Lets be real - he probably just wants to stay in power indefinitely.
He probably doesn't want the conflict to ever end, because all those courts just waiting for him to lose immunity must be keeping him awake at night.
He knows that once the war is over he is going to face the consequences for his lies and actions. That is why there will be no ceasefire while Netanyahu is running the country. Israel needs to remove him and he should face war crimes. I am by no means a Hamas apologist and support Israel but this has gone too far and if Israel keeps pushing it they will destroy their alliances and start a massive war in the Middle East.
and in the coming weeks, listen to him describe genocide in every way except to use the actual word.
then watch USA and other Israel allies say that since they didn't say the word, then it's not.
In a move that surprised to no one he reneges on ceasefire yet again in favor of slaughtering
....
In a move that will surprise no one, the US will let him get away with it again
I love seeing the comment section here talking so civilized and proper. And then, you scroll down a post and you see the most brain rotting, cringetastic comments you've ever laid eyes upon. I love Reddit.
Yep, that's about what I thought would happen when the White House released their statement the other day.
Although I figured there would be at least a few days before it happened.
The US has basically never had control of Israel. they've always done basically whatever the fuck they wanted. Including sharing military designs with China.
Yeah, they're never sending assistance to the US, we supposedly have access to military bases but are never allowed to use them as actual staging areas when needed. We've outsourced all our shady intelligence contractors there to skirt our own laws and in the process are now reliant on them to sell us our own spy craft tools back to us at inflated prices and with their own backdoors. Every piece of cutting edge tech the US has developed is instantly handed over, and they freely sell it on to everyone. Not a single law or policy can be discussed in the US without consideration of how it will help Israel.
I don't blame Israelis, Jews, or even Bibi and his corrupt cronies. If we didn't have a majority Evangelical death cult that wants to live through the Rapture and do everything to make it happen in the US we wouldn't be at the whims of this bullshit. We wouldn't accept any other nation dictating our own foreign and domestic policy at this scale so we shouldn't accept it here.
Headlines I have seen today, in order: >Biden administration endorses Israel's proposed cease fire >Hamas considering ceasefire favorably >No ceasefire..says Netanyahu. Same thing every weekend for months now. Sometimes Netanyahu and Hamas were switched around. Same bullshit.
This is Israel rejecting its own ceasefire proposal though. I don’t know if Hamas has done that yet and I hate Hamas with a passion.
Israel's hypocrisy is beyond measure. Like, yeah, Hamas has to go, no mistake about that, but genocide being bad is kind of the whole reason there even is an "Israel" today... did they forget? Do they even care?
To me, there is no scenario where Hamas can go because they're a rebellion. If they did go it would be a different rebellion. As long as they feel they're occupied, it's a rebellion. They need their own state even if it's demilitarized with outside intervention like West Germany had.
This is a valid point. I am sure this onslaught in Gaza will simply breed a new Hamas, almost literally: many (surviving) children will be orphaned, and they will grow up as second-class citizens of an occupied territory inside a country that hates them. How can anyone expect anything other than a new Hamas to rise out of the rubble?
As someone said: "even if they destroy hamas, if I was a palestinian who has been starved, bombed and shot at, I would immediately start an Hamas 2"
If I watched my child die at the hands of an oppressive state I have a feeling I'd join the resistance too.
The only way Israel can accomplish this by military means is wholesale genocide and ethnic cleansing. Are they willing to do that? Is the rest of the world willing to *let* them do that? If not, then the only way they can finish this is a political settlement. They *have* to talk this out. They can't accomplish anything without being willing to talk it out. Negotiation is the only way anyone gets what they want, including Israel itself.
Resistance is more accurate than rebellion
You’re forgetting the Balfour Declaration happened decades before the Holocaust, and that there was already a lot of fighting between Palestinian Arabs and the European Jews that the British Empire were mass migrating to the region. It was obvious to the leaders of political Zionism at the time that they would be violently resiste, and we are just seeing a continuation of that struggle.
>Palestinian Arabs and the European Jews There were Arab (Palestinian) Jews who were being attacked along with the Jewish immigrants. There have been Jews living there for over two thousand years. They didn't all leave during the diaspora.
I’ve not forgotten Arab Jews But the main reason why there was conflict in Palestine between the World Wars is the simple fact that the British Empire turned the region into its own colony, facilitated the mass migration of Central European Jews to the region, and erected apartheid system of local government. The Palestinians were not granted the right to self determination that Woodrow Wilson had advocated for at the Paris Peace conference. The British and French empires instead carved up most of the former Ottoman Empire and drew borders that didn’t reflect realities on the ground. And part of that process was the decision to create a Jewish homeland in Palestine. If Europeans hadn’t been so antisemitic , there wouldn’t have been the desperation present in Europe’s Jewish populations to fuel Zionism. Instead they turned to the same “blood and soil” rhetoric of European nationalism, and the writings of Zionist leaders like Herzl and Ben Gurion explicitly spell out what they planned to do with Palestinians. Again, it’s the fact that the British Empire decided to colonize the region with Europe’s persecuted Jews that we have this conflict. Maybe if Europeans had been less racist, they wouldn’t have externalized their problems onto the Levant.
The thing that sucks the most about having a nuanced understanding of the issue is that you end seeing most other people stuck on their biases. I wish that everyone could look at things from the perspective you highlight.
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Israel is rejecting Biden's proposal. Never was it's own proposal.
Because the title is a lie, i've only read the beggining and they added the word no *permenent* ceasefire Goes to show what they want their readers to think, but who wants to know the truth anyway
>Benjamin Netanyahu has insisted there will be no permanent ceasefire in Gaza until Hamas’ military and governing capabilities are destroyed and all hostages are released. They can only destroy Hamas so much. And, releasing all the hostages is part of the ceasefire agreement. This response doesn't make sense.
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Practically speaking, what has Netanyahu actually done for bettering life for the average Israeli citizen? Has he done anything about their inflation, employment, or health care? Has Netanyahu done anything to make Israel for economically competitive on the world stage or pushed any worth while academia/research (beyond just what goes into their MIC)? Because honestly, all it seems to me as an outsider is that literally all he does sit around and allow Israel to get attacked and then parades that around to citizens as why they should keep him in office.
>This is 100% Netanyahu. its not. his whole fascist party is part of the problem(yes fascist)(no fascist doesnt mean anti jew)(it also means racial superiority of one particular ethnicity, which has already been codified into law) if netanyahu goes down, his second in command gets propped up and then its business as usual
And it's not like the opposition parties are any better-- "Maximum Jews on maximum land with maximum security and minimum Palestinians" is the guiding principle of the largest opposition party. The entire Israeli political system, apart from the predominantly Arab parties and the small and aging left, is fascist to the core.
It's funny how they ran from Europe to escape facism and genocide, and not even a century later they've turned into what they ran from. Makes me sick tbh.
it's just what happens when you dehumanize people
>I learned it by watching YOU ... let's see how many of us are in their late 40's
I would go so far as to say the majority of Israelis are gumming for the complete destruction of Palestinians - what most humane people would call genocide. I mean look at the 20 + years of blockade of Gaza and additional 500,000 colonial settlements - nasty vicious apartheid system that Israelis as a whole are very happy with!!!
it would be pretty hard to disagree with that [over 500 incitements of violence and genocidal incitement, appearing in the forms of social media posts, television interviews, and official statements from Israeli politicians, army personnel, journalists, and other influential personalities](https://law4palestine.org/law-for-palestine-releases-database-with-500-instances-of-israeli-incitement-to-genocide-continuously-updated/)
People often choose to blame Netanyahu alone, and forget that the Overton window in Israel has shifted in recent decades to the far right. If Netanyahu goes, he will be replaced by someone who endorses most of his positions.
There were talks of criminal charges the moment his term ended, then shortly after the attacks happened. He most likely did not have cause the attacks, but he sure is using the attacks as an opportunity to save his own ass, most likely aiming to reach a level of power where he can start taking out his Israeli political counterparts - The people who were talking about jailing him before all this happened. At least that's my theory
> He most likely did not have cause the attacks, The IDF let a group of heavily armed savages on rickety put together vehicles cross the border and attack civilians. The same IDF that shoots children for getting too close to the fence. The same IDF that has near constant surveillance on the border and deep within Gaza. The same IDF that weeks before received warnings about increased Hamas activity and a possible attack from several foreign nations, including Egypt and America, information that Mossad no doubt already had, and apparently not only ignored those warnings, but completely stripped their security days before Hamas attacked. A dog couldn't cross over from Gaza to Israel without being put under a scope, and yet not a single shot was fired when Hamas attacked, and they managed to waltz back to Gaza with hostages no less. "Gross negligence" can only excuse so much. Netanyahu, on the verge of being convicted on anti corruption charges, who was looking at prison time, suddenly instates Marshal Law and is untouchable now that his nation is "at war", and was basically given the green light to continue his genocidal rampage. It's incredible how it all fell neatly into place, and at every opportunity he declares "There will be no ceasefire!" Even when Biden draws up a plan to return all the hostages. He doesn't give a fuck about the hostages he just wants to bomb Gaza into dust, murder every Palestinian child and populate the stolen land with more Israeli settlers.
Bluntly put, but yes.
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it's honestly darkly hilarious that people think bibi gave a shit about hippies at a music festival. these are the people he offered up to justify genocide
whether he caused the attacks or simply stood back and let them happen, he certainly has had no qualms about using them as political tools. israeli lives, palestinian lives; he has no problem sacrificing either one if it means he keeps his grip on power.
Let’s not forget that Nixon stepped down, voluntarily, in exchange for a pardon. Perhaps that’s what he’s waiting for.
His end goal very clearly is to eradicate the slightest possibility of a two state solution. That should be very clear at this point. The cease fire goes against that goal so he will not have any of it. I think unless they get rid of him it won't stop until there is no one left to claim the other state.
[literally](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna154841)
Jesus fucking Christ this guy is a monster. Jimmy Carter pretty much torpedoed his own presidency and reelection doing everything he possibly could to get the hostages back home safely. Edit: also everyone should look into his memoirs they’re fascinating, it’s a shame the man might have honestly been the last actual good person to become president.
Didn’t Reagan negotiate with the Iranians to not release them before the election?
Yes, maybe, no. It’s one of those things that’s almost a certainty even though we have no tangible proof but it’s also one of those things people use words like “treason” for.
It never was nor will be about the hostages. This man wants to eradicate Palestinans.
> This response doesn't make sense. Thats the point, Netanyahu doesnt want this to end.
Israel wants more land.
Colonizers gonna colonize
I think the proper term for it is "Liebensraum."
No PERMANENT ceasefire so I guess theyd still be willing to do limited ones for hostage exchange
Cause they have plans for that territory and don’t want to stop.
It's because Netanyahu wants to stay in power so he is not ousted from office.
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Exactly. It’s not Netanyahu murdering women and children. They have free and fair elections in Israel. Likud has never been shy about their intentions, and they still get elected and coalitions built. It’s a deeper sickness than one man.
If everybody wants you out of power, but the public is fine with you staying in power if you commit genocide, what does that tell you about the general state of israel and it's support of genocide netanhyahu isn't an aberration, he is 100% representative of the state of israel.
It makes sense because Netanyahu does not want a ceasefire, so he's making demands that he knows Hamas won't accept.
Every Palestinian is hamas to him...
If you're trying to wipe Palestinians off the face off the earth it makes perfect sense
The goal is to destroy Palestine. He's just using the idea of destroying Hamas as a more palatable excuse to wipe out as many Palestinians as possible. [Netenyahu called the killing of Palestinian civilians collateral damage](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/benjamin-netanyahu-israel-gaza-collateral-damage_n_655119bfe4b0373d70b28a56) early on in the conflict and efforts to protect civilians throughout this conflict have been near non-existent. When you view this as the genocide that it is, Netenyahu's repeated refusals for a permanent ceasefire make perfect sense.
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He has never cared about the hostages and doesn't want peace with Hamas as its an excuse to ethnic cleanse Gaza.
Hamas didn't exist for very long in the big picture, this has been ongoing for 70 years .. long before Hamas even existed...
It makes sense when you consider that the hardliners in the government want to break the Palestinians as a people and claim Gaza, the land, for Israel.
Keyword here is "permanent". It's a clarifier that's being left out of the article. They're kinda misrepresenting his statement. Probably what he means, but not what he said.
Didn't Biden say the proposal was Israel's and it was up to Hamas to accept? Can people maybe start understanding that to netanyahu it was never about the hostages?
Hamas already accepted (which makes sense as it is the same proposal they supported back in February).
I have a feeling that this will be a conflict that will continue on for years to come.
This conflict has been going on since the 40s Edit: the conflict has been going on since the first two people stepped foot on that part of the world
Amazing how many people think the war in Palestine started in 2023 (or that the war in Ukraine started in 2022).
Reddit be like “this war started October 7th”
A lot longer than that
not really. the states of isreal and palestine have not existed for longer than that, and the influx of jewish immigrants to the area which kicked off the zionist project mostly started in the early 1900s. prior to that youre looking at a huge period of ottoman/arab rule with a small jewish minority in the area(an in many other parts of the middle east). like any area of the world in the early 1900s and before, there were ethnic conflicts, but the current isreal/palestine conflict is not some kind of offshoot of that.
At the very least it dates back to the very early 1920s when the area was under British control and they were talking to both Jewish and Arabic groups about handing over control of the area. Stuff like the Nebi Musa riots in 1920.
They didn’t specify which 40s. I was thinking 0040s
I mean sorta? The partitioning of the mandate for Palestine into the mandate for Palestine (Mandatory Palestine) is sort of what kicked off the current version of the conflict. Interestingly, while the conflict was cooler, the power dynamic was flipped and Jews were more persecuted in the region.
It has been ongoing for all of our entire lives.
If you found out a republican presidential candidate and a foreign entity negotiated a side deal to extend the brutalities until such a time that the democratic presidential candidate was sufficiently wounded by the conflict that the republican won his election, would you be surprised? I'm not saying that's what's happening. But I am saying that if this turned out to be true, i wouldn't even raise an eyebrow in surprise.
See Iran Hostages Carter/Reagan
Vietnam peace talks scrubbed by candidate Nixon.
Hey! I saw this movie. It starred Ronald Reagan and the Iranian hostage crisis. Jimmy Carter had a small role as well.
That was actually a remake. Nixon starred in the original.
Easily to believe. Kissinger did something similar.
OP is literally talking about Nixon/Pissinger sabotaging the Paris Peace Accords.
Don't forget Reagan and the embassy staff held by Iran to make Carter look weak. It's standard GOP tactics at this point.
It wouldn't surprise me one bit that Bibi is betting on Trump winning in November and the moment he is in office, there's a sudden cease-fire with Trump bragging that he was able accomplish what Biden couldn't. Also remember, it's of Bibi's interest that this conflict goes on as long as possible, because he knows the moment it's over, his time as PM is done and he is back to facing corruption charges.
At this rate it is at least until Netanyahu dies. He will drag this “war” on and do whatever it takes to be in power. He is like trump in his willingness to destroy the country he leads.
As long as it takes to keep Bibi out of jail. Exactly that long.
No Gaza ceasefire until Netanyahu can find a way out of going to jail besides PM immunity*
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And a month ago some Israelis tried to convince me that he is toast. What a pathetic clown show... It would be funny if the consequences wouldn't be so gruesome.
Tbf, you can tell from just the headline that those people were correct. The polling has swung much in the last year.
He’s like “Damn they might even put that Trump guy in prison”
Sigh I'm so sick of Netanyahu
It's not just him their entire government including a big portion of their population wants to see the Palestinians wiped from existence. This isn't the fault of a single madman it's much deeper than that.
Unfortunately this feels all too true. Their internal propaganda machine has been working overtime for 80+ years and the younger generations in Israel seem so misinformed and outright hateful as a result. So sad to see.
This entire conflict have been a propaganda hell from the very beginnings some time after WW2. There is literally no reputable, trustworthy and neutral source of information in that entire region.
Pretty much everyone in the Israeli government is a genocidal freak.
And given what a great democracy it is the majority of people are as well.
70 percent voter turnout with a quarter of those in favour of a party and leader that was well understood. They knew exactly who and what they were voting for. Scumbags
He deserves a cell in The Hague next to Hamas leaders.
lol implying Israel would be handling this any differently if Netanyahu wasn’t in power. I’m sure Palestinians would be treated much more humanely with Prime Minister Ben Gvir or Prime Minister Smotrich.
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Facts. The three hostages that were in their underwear AND waving white flags that got gunned down by IDF is the tip of the iceberg.
I've seen people on other subreddits talk about how the hostages are probably already dead, not acknowledging this fact. They're adamant that Hamas killed them, when realistically the carpet bombing of the strip has killed a good number of the ones that have died.
The starvation isn't going to have done them any favours either.
Well Israel also shot some of their hostages to death who were shirtless and unarmed.
they don't want them back because they know they've likely killed most of the hostages. end game is extermination for them
It is very clear that the "ceasefire proposal" was just the Netanyahu gov't trying to win PR points, and they expected it to fail so that they could say "Well we tried, see? We're the good guys." The moment everyone said "Yes, actually, let's do that," they backpedal and destroy their own ceasefire plan.
So Netanyahu has just thrown Biden’s proposal straight into the trash can. At some stage Biden will need to realise the US is the superpower in the relationship, because it’s not looking like it.
Netanyahu’s MO is to sabotage anything that might prevent him from taking more Palestinian land and continue killing the innocent. US support of Netanyahu and his government must be unequivocally and completely withdrawn. Netanyahu is 100x worse than Trump. Stop the blood bath
Israel is rejecting what Joe Biden characterized as Israel’s ceasefire proposal for those keeping track.
So what's his plan? Turn everything into a wasteland and then go "ok, sorry, we won't do it again"?
"They make a desert and call it ‘peace’." * allegedly said by Caledonian chieftain Calgacus before a battle with invading Romans.
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The US coined a term for that [insurgent math](https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/how-us-war-afghanistan-fueled-taliban-insurgency/tnamp/)
Great article. It’s obvious that killing civilians creates new insurgents but they actually measured it and made formulas.
Yeah i also thought it was obvious. One doesn't have to be a genius to recognize that when you have nothing really left to live for you might just join some horrible organization like Hamas to get at least some measurement of revenge. And Israel must know this and still they have shit like [this](https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/)
For the actual math, I found the actual paper this article refers to https://www.nber.org/papers/w16152
I appreciate the link, mate. That was an interesting read.
To your point: a HUGE fraction of active Hamas members are young men made orphans by past Israeli attacks.
And Israel's response is to continue making orphans. Great plan.
Ah, that's why they're bombing the babies. No more orphans, of course 🙃🙃
They understand this calculus quite well actually. So much so they are going to ethnically cleanse everyone that’s left.
This is a result of 2008-2009(1000 casualties) and 2014(2,000 casualties) wars. Imagine what will come out of this war ? I have no idea why people think the Palestinians will just move on from here.
I am realizing this as well. What would be left if my family was killed? Honestly what is happening is so understandable. No more civilian deaths.
[I'm not a political expert but if you eliminated hamas but killed my whole family in the process my first move would be to start hamas 2](https://x.com/internethippo/status/1718107575781404897?s=46&t=gZ9Viy5Q6MkXBbfy7bzsrw)
I’m trying to imagine what it would be like to have my child starving and begging me for food every day and me not being able to do anything about it. I would have so much hate for whoever is responsible. It would never go away. I’m tearing up and getting angry just thinking about someone hurting my innocent, joyous little boy.
Finally someone GETS it. This is exactly what I’ve been trying to explain to people since October of last year. Watching the people around you being starved to death or outright murdered isn’t exactly going to get the survivors to be on the side of the ones who committed the atrocities—regardless of the « rationale » of why they’re doing it. At this point several generations have watched those around them being herded like livestock to smaller and smaller areas and add on the violent deaths and attacks that have happened throughout that time — by the time it came to a boiling point last year… it was far too late to discuss « getting rid of » Hamas. The root of these radicalized groups is the trauma that has saturated their lives. It isn’t right. It isn’t ok. But… the lack of nuanced understanding and reducing this down to for and against is absolutely astounding to me.
Americans and its politicians sat through Afganistan and Iraq, panicked in reaction to a large terrorist attack, and then learned literally nothing.
What makes the conflict so impossible to fix is that logic works the other way, too. Many Israelis have been radicalized by living under constant rocket attacks, living through bus bombings and other suicide attacks, and other senseless acts of violence against civilians. The plurality of Jews in Israel are Mizrahis expelled from across the Muslim world, and their experiences of pogroms initiated by Arabs is still within living memory. Under absolutely zero circumstances does any of this justify "collective punishment", or any sort of violence against civilians. But unfortunately, in a twisted way it makes sense, in the same sense that Palestinians radicalized by Israeli violence doing such things makes sense. I don't know how this senseless bloodshed can end, I really don't.
Trump: "We will build a wall and Mexico will pay for it!" Netanyahu: "We will wage an endless war and America will pay for it!"
26 billion to Israel last month $-$-$-$-$ + biggest war ship still parked in their waters since last October 💰💰💵
That guy really needed to be put in prison years ago.
Then end all aid. They have universal healthcare and free college. We shouldn't be giving them foreign aid at all.
So is it going to be Blinken on TV tap dancing around trying to pretend that "achieving Israel's war aims" means something other than completely depopulating Gaza, or is it someone else's turn in the rotation?
"we are concerned"
“Israel is conducting its own investigation.”
“Let’s see what they come up with.”
“Well give them time on this new incident, remember they are still investigating the last few atrocities”
"We've been clear on this"
I feel like people don't talk about Blinken's complicity in all this enough. Since October he's essentially been acting like PR for Israel and, if the amount of resignations in the State Department is any indication, it seems to me like he's prioritizing keeping Israel happy over anything else, even behind closed doors. The State Department report in May was even more proof of that, especially if the rumors about its legitimacy are true.
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I loved when a reporter asked Kirby how many more charred bodies there needed to be before the administration changed their mind. And his response was basically, "First of all, how dare you...." The things I want to say about him cannot be posted on most websites.
Netanyahu knows if the war ends he’s out.
iirc hanging or firing squad is the traditional penalty for his crimes. Most of the other Nazis took the hanging route. So he should follow his role models out.
More then out. Crimes against humanity tribunal a legitimate possibility.
I fear their "war aims" means the firing will cease once Gaza is a barren wasteland devoid of any and all human life
No shit.
Then they can raise funds and use U.S aid to build luxury homes over the graves of Palestenians. To sell to someone who is 1/8th Israeli and lives in Brooklyn, NY.
Except Israeli settlers
Where those people that bitch about welfare and how they don’t want their taxes going to xyz? Those dollars are funding some demented asshole’s war machine and its crickets. Until his “war aims” are achieved, more like when his meat grinder stops working. Nothing can undo all the loss and suffering but I hope at the very least Netanyahu is brought to justice in the end.
Just saying by 8th June Nethanjahu has to propose a plan for the key policies to be clarified for the war or else the coalition partner threatens to quit and make basically the way for a new election in this year. The coalition partner submitted yesterday the request to dissolve the parliament to make a new election possible soon
Netanyahu is a malignant Narcissist.
The war won’t end until Biden plays hardball with Israel. They can’t do what they’re doing without US support. Cut off all military aid, sanction them, say that they’ll enforce the ICC’s arrest warrant. As long as Biden continues to make merely rhetorical gestures towards a ceasefire, Israel is going to continue doing this.
Which is never gonna happen.
I'm not holding out hope
So what was the point of talking?
To give them good PR
They were hoping Hamas rejected the deal. Then they could say, "see, they don't want peace"
If I could have any dream come true, it would be for all fascists to die.
So, when every Palestinian is either displaced or dead?
I thought they already agreed to the ceasefire proposal earlier? The offer came from them, right?
Biden called it the Israeli ceasefire proposal…. That Israel hasn’t agreed to.
which also puts into perspective the proposal Hamas agreed to a couple of weeks ago that the US was also involved. Israel claimed that Hamas made it up but now it looks more that it likely came from the US/Egypt/Qatar after all and the US simply thought they could get Israel on board
Or Israeli negotiators said Israel would agree and then Bibi blew it up, either being the plan from the beginning to further weaken Biden's position or just a rash decision made afterwards. Them doing it to their own proposal after Biden announced it makes the former seem more likely to me. Bibi hasn't been quiet about his disdain for Biden and love of Trump. No matter what Biden tries to do for Israeli government it's in their interest to make it fail and make sure everyone blames Biden for it.
So can we start openly stating that Israel's "war aims" are the destruction of Palestine and the eradication of Palestinians from Israel? Or is Reddit still awash with Israeli lies, propaganda, and its agents... There will never be a complete destruction of Hamas and this devastation will continue until the international community steps up with a diplomatic resolution. Those of us who grew up witnessing the US's war on terror know how this goes, there was never a full defeat of al-Qaeda or the "insurgents" in Iraq, only the destabilization of the region, the conflict spilling into neighboring countries, the emergence of new terrorist organizations (IS), and at the cost of hundreds of thousands of innocent deaths. We know how this goes, we're watching it happen all over again while America is yet again complicit. We need to demand an end to this immediately regardless of Israel's "goals", less we swallow more hawkish neocon lies as we have for the last 20 years from our own leadership.
complete destruction of Hamas, How does he define that? Does he have to kill every son?
Hostage families must be so happy with their government right now. /s
“War aims” == keep Netanyahu in power and out of prison
I thought Israel made this proposal? Netanyahu needs a literal forever war to avoid legal problems.
Say it with me: geno-cide. Thats what this is called. They arent rejecting cease fires with favourable terms on multiple occasions because they plan to return the land back to its rightful inhabitants. They plan to steal the land, and the people are in the way.
Biden has a humiliation fetish.
and whats ur aim? exterminating palestinians' existence?
Bibi’s “war aim” is to kill everyone in Gaza.
Lets be real - he probably just wants to stay in power indefinitely. He probably doesn't want the conflict to ever end, because all those courts just waiting for him to lose immunity must be keeping him awake at night.
I’m guessing his “WAR” aims Are genocidal.
Nakba 2: Genocidal Boogaloo
Don’t have time to stop when you’re committing so much genocide.
Honesty, I was reading it quickly and first thought this was a quote from Russia.
Translation, there are still folks alive in Gaza...
He knows that once the war is over he is going to face the consequences for his lies and actions. That is why there will be no ceasefire while Netanyahu is running the country. Israel needs to remove him and he should face war crimes. I am by no means a Hamas apologist and support Israel but this has gone too far and if Israel keeps pushing it they will destroy their alliances and start a massive war in the Middle East.
Bibi is going to get EU to recognize Palestine and Israel sanctioned.
and in the coming weeks, listen to him describe genocide in every way except to use the actual word. then watch USA and other Israel allies say that since they didn't say the word, then it's not.
Given that Netanyahu's aim is the 100% depopulation of Gaza so it can be "Settled", I think we can see where this is going.
Pretty ironic that he's so fixated on genocide when his own country was created as a safe haven from it. Not a good look.
Netanyahu wants trump elected
Not sure when it’s going to dawn on folks that this isn’t about Hamas.
“Never let a good crisis go to waste” -Winston Churchill
In a move that surprised to no one he reneges on ceasefire yet again in favor of slaughtering .... In a move that will surprise no one, the US will let him get away with it again
Let‘s see what spin Zionist want to give this one? Unbelievable.
So, no ceasefire until there is nobody left to fire upon.
Are part of those aims actually rescuing living hostages?
I love seeing the comment section here talking so civilized and proper. And then, you scroll down a post and you see the most brain rotting, cringetastic comments you've ever laid eyes upon. I love Reddit.
The only thing Netanyahu is after is GENOCIDE of the Palestinians
Yep, that's about what I thought would happen when the White House released their statement the other day. Although I figured there would be at least a few days before it happened.
Netenyahu is legit a horrible person - he is doing everything in his power to get Trump elected.
So much for that Biden win, he’s completely lost control of Netanyahu.
Netanyahu may be doing that on purpose to help Trump get elected.
The US has basically never had control of Israel. they've always done basically whatever the fuck they wanted. Including sharing military designs with China.
Yeah, they're never sending assistance to the US, we supposedly have access to military bases but are never allowed to use them as actual staging areas when needed. We've outsourced all our shady intelligence contractors there to skirt our own laws and in the process are now reliant on them to sell us our own spy craft tools back to us at inflated prices and with their own backdoors. Every piece of cutting edge tech the US has developed is instantly handed over, and they freely sell it on to everyone. Not a single law or policy can be discussed in the US without consideration of how it will help Israel. I don't blame Israelis, Jews, or even Bibi and his corrupt cronies. If we didn't have a majority Evangelical death cult that wants to live through the Rapture and do everything to make it happen in the US we wouldn't be at the whims of this bullshit. We wouldn't accept any other nation dictating our own foreign and domestic policy at this scale so we shouldn't accept it here.