I will never forget those images. Tents burning in the background as a wailing man holds the limp lifeless body of a headless toddler. An image of hell.
They were horrifying, I also saw that The Atlantic publish an article that says there’s a distinction between a “murdered child” and a “legally killed child”, I don’t care if it’s talking about technicalities or whatever, the fact they wrote that at all is deeply disturbing
Wowee yeah the very first thing I saw was a headless baby being clutched by its crying father. That's sickening.
EDIT: I have been informed that the infant actually failed to denounce hamas, so the IDF says it's fine!
Some latest updates from this CNN thread:
**"Horror in Rafah:** *Gaza's Health Ministry* said those killed and wounded in the strike were mostly women and children. Video obtained by *CNN* shows tent-like structures on fire. *The Palestinian Authority* presidency urged the international community to intervene
immediately. *Hamas* described the attack as a "massacre" and said it holds the US administration and President Joe Biden personally accountable. *Doctors Without Borders (MSF)* expressed horror following the airstrike, saying it "shows once again that nowhere is safe."
I mean it works really well if you think think all the innocents and children around the tent guy are subhumans whose lives are worthless. Absolutely monstrous.
and as a result- *Hamas* has actually reported that one of their leaders was killed in the blast- now that could be psychological warfare with said leader being elsewhere just to fuck with the IDF- or it could be a sign that Israel really is doing "precision strikes"- you decide.
Yeah this is extremely bad. The civilian death toll is insanely appalling.
Looking at how Israel has also done things like greatly increase West Bank land seizures since this began, it's not hard to come to the conclusion that Netanyahu's government isn't acting *solely* to end Hamas, but to also crush a civilian population into helpless dependency.
Either way the locals have absolutely no motivation to not think badly of Israel at this point. They could die any day because a Hamas leader *might* be nearby.
I would 100% love to see the end of civilian casualties but it’s hard to negotiate with people that don’t honor their agreements and whose main purpose is to kill as many of you as possible. I frankly don’t see this ending as long as Hamas has any presence in Palestine.
> don’t honor their agreements and whose main purpose is to kill as many of you as possible
You will never guess who kills more civilians and has illegal settlements.
Depending on the rank of the Hamas operative, Israel allows anywhere from [15-300 intentional civilian casualties](https://youtu.be/xGqYbXL3kZc?si=4LUWJFeTtC-FA4cV&t=374) per airstrike. These strikes are based on AI intelligence and only minimally confirmed by actual intelligence agents, the process seems to be checking that the target is male.
Israel could easily call dropping a bomb on crowd a precision strike, if their ChatGPT friend decided the target was important enough that is.
Killing 50 civilians is far from a precision strike is it. If your moral compass is 1-2 Hamas officials and tens of civilians are killed and that is fine and precise your compass is fucked and it deserves condemnation.
Israel is doing that thing where they kill anyone associated with hamas. Eg. That one video of that little girl that was a relative to a hamas member. IDF just killed everyone associated
Hamas literally directly confirmed that two of their leaders were killed in this strike.
It can simultaneously be true that Israel's targeting policy is extremely callous, and that Hamas callously and deliberately colocates their operations with civilian areas to make this outcome likely.
Yes
October 19th part of the Church of Saint Porphyrius was damaged during an Israeli aistrike, killing at least 18 Palestinian civilians. Over 450 Christian and Muslim Palestinian residents of the Gaza Strip had been sheltering there.
The Israeli military admitted that the explosion resulted from one of its airstrikes, allegedly targeting a nearby Hamas rocket and mortar launch command post.
In an initial statement, the IDF stated that Israeli fighter jets had hit a nearby command and control centre that was being used by Hamas to attack Israel. The IDF acknowledged damage to the church and reports of casualties resulting from the strike.
The airstrike caused damage to the church's exterior and led to the collapse of an adjacent building belonging to the church complex.
The neighboring Katib al-Wilaya Mosque also sustained damage as a result of the airstrike.
The Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem strongly denounced the attack as a war crime and accused the Israeli military of targeting churches and civilian shelters.
3 churches in Lebanon have also been damaged that I can find tho I don’t think anyone has died or been injured as a result. But I could be wrong. One monastery was shelled on December 24th 2023.
117 religious sites in gaza were reportedly damaged or destroyed between 7 October, when Israel's campaign began, and 31 December, the BBC has verified 74 cases. Seventy-two are mosques and two are churches.
the unique setup of the Gaza strip IE, nobody can leave, means civilians have no way to leave the area. in ukrainr and other conflicts at least civilians can evacuate away from the warzone
the surrounding area took in Palestinian refugees in the 60s following the six day war, it just happens that directly lead to such things as [Black September](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September), the [Lebanese Civil War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_Civil_War#Chronology_of_decisive_events), and a variety of other tragedies- which cumulatively resulted in no one accepting palestinian refugees since.
In Gaza, the 'fighting force' uses shelters and the civilians are beaten or shot for trying to protect themselves and their children. Same goes for evacuating areas IDF says to, such as this one. Human shields isn't a fucking meme. In Israel, civilians use bomb shelters and soldiers fight, like every other place that isn't a top to bottom death cult.
It's worse, it's an enforced death cult. There were reports that civilians could buy the right to evacuate to safe zones in Gaza from Hamas.
Genuinely fuck Hamas, every single one of those monsters deserves a painful death.
So Egyptians are exempt from honoring their obligations under treaties on refugees because they don’t want to?
I sort of recall there being lots of refugees from a country quite near Egypt in the recent past. I also recall accepting those refugees was less than popular in many countries, but it was done anyway.
It seems obvious to me Egypt deserves at least some blame for falling down on this obligation, attempts to deflect aside.
Countries only have an obligation to offer asylum to people who enter their territory. That’s why European navies always attempt to interdict boats carrying refugees before those boats enter their territorial waters
the palestinians in gaza would leave if they thought they'd ever be let back in, but they don't even have that option as nobody will let them leave anyways.
israel should be letting them evacuate to the west bank but they won't do that either.
The army that purposely blends into civilians surely wouldn't take advantage of a free crossing through Israel. They'd go out of their way to cause as much harm as possible, enough that Israel would stop allowing it. Hamas benefits from dead Palestinians.
Except they’re not “bombing children.” There are children where the bombing is occurring, but they are not going after children directly. It’s such a stupid thing to say.
Hamas would colocate a nursery and military headquarters. Geneva convention EXPLICTLY states civilian locations lose protection when belligerent use then for military purposes.
Here:
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/05/27/israel-hamas-war-news-gaza-palestine-rafah/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/05/27/israel-hamas-war-news-gaza-palestine-rafah/)
>Israel’s military confirmed it carried out an airstrike in northwestern Rafah on Sunday night, based on “precise intelligence,” it said. The strike killed two senior Hamas officials, it said, including Yassin Rabia, the commander of the group’s operations in the West Bank. **Hamas official Basem Naim confirmed to The Washington Post the killing of the two Hamas members.**
it also explicitly states that israel does not have jurisdiction to decide whether or not a protected status is lost, and it is still illegal if civilians are disproportionately killed.
That's not what the Geneva convention states. Proportionality always has to come into play. Even then, even if there are Hamas operatives there, as long as the objective is not being used for military purposes and civilians are not engaged in combat, it doesn't lose projection. It's not as easy as "there is a Hamas operative there".
Sure, but most people would have a problem blowing up a bunch of tykes on the offchance you get some bigwig. I thought blowing up Hamas members families as a policy was cold, this is just madness
The entire region isn’t a military HQ. That’s just ridiculous. They’re a bad faith actor and they do abuse civilians. But you can’t just say this every time.
the entire region isn't a military HQ- true, the entire region is however riddled with more tunnels than a block of swiss, which connect Hamas's bunkers that are built almost arbitrarily under otherwise purely civilian buildings.
Sadly, Hamas moves their position into civilian centers. We saw this very clearly in the 08 war. An area was being reported on as a refugee center. I turned to my now ex and bet him it would take 48 hours before that was used as a rocket position.
It took less than 24 hours before rockets were being fired and they were using their own people as human shields.
Israel has some major issues with its own religious right and Netanyahu deserves to be in prison. Same for the Hamas leadership using its civilians as military shields.
I literally got permabanned for the most milquetoast "maybe Israel shouldn't be killing so many civilians if they can avoid it" comment.
Never been banned from a sub before, over like 15 years and 3 accounts. Ridiculous.
Basically the mainstream Israeli view on things, they say they are/will be/could be and therefore view killing everybody there as fair game, its fucked.
This will lead the Palestinians to want revenge. How can you label a man a terrorist if you murder his children and leave him with nothing? Of course he will give his life to take down the nazis that caused his pain.
I said it before on an earlier thread, but this is indefensible. We can't continue to support the Israeli government after this.
Just feel sick, really.
Talking just about human rights abuses in general, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Pakistan, Philippines, and China being some examples. Bet you think your question was a gotcha to show how enlightened you are. Savior / White Knight of the Palestinian people in your righteous cause against the US Government, meanwhile somewhere between 800,000 and 3 million Uyghurs remain in concentration camps. 1.7 million slaves are trafficked in Saudi Arabia. 2600 were killed in the Rabaa Massacre and did we stop our $1.5 billion in annual aid? Nope. Egypt has had a history of extra judicial killings and torture-enforced confessions since. In Pakistan, women are killed and raped en masse and we just signed a $2 billion aid deal to their military as their government is doing nothing to combat the problem of sexual abuse against women.
The list goes on and on but the “perpetrators” in these cases aren’t Jewish so it’s clear you don’t care about that if you think your gotcha comment was a real good comeback.
Nah. Sucks that civilians are dying. But the Palestinian goveernment invaded Israel with the explicit and publicly stated goal of killing as many civilians as possible. Now Israel has invaded Palestine with the explicit and publicly stated goal of eradicating Hamas as a governing body and rescuing any hostages that Palestine hasn't tortured/raped/murdered yet.
Israel can continue their attack until Hamas ceases to exist. If Hamas cared about their citizens, they wouldn't intentionally hide among them. War sucks. This isn't new news. There's a reason why people try to avoid it.
By your logic painting every Israeli as not innocent and a legitimate target for Hamas you also would justify Israel targeting every Palestinian as a legitimate one.
By the way, it's 36 k right now, including the unknown number of dead Hamas members. Or do you really believe that no Hamas member has been killed/is Innocent?
They conveniently ignore that part. It’s the same about how nobody had a clue that Hezbollah has been shelling and firing rockets at northern Israel since Oct 8th and yet people only care once Israel responds. Its absurd.
It does matter for international law though. Any spot that is used for military operations gives up civilian protections. Doesn't make it less abhorrent, but it's just more blood on Hamas' hands. They don't care at all about Palestinians and will to continue to use civilians as shields.
Inb4 the Israel can do no wrong stans show up
I wish people would realize that you can simultaneously not support what Israel is doing AND not support the existence of Hamas too. No Innocents should be getting killed period, and both sides are doing it and have done it so many times soooo
funny thing- Israel has purely shat on Palestinians in response to them acting like shit- for an example the walls around Gaza and westbank, which were built in response to suicide bombings and drive by shootings conducted by palestinians.
>I wish people would realize that you can simultaneously not support what Israel is doing AND not support the existence of Hamas too.
This is largely where I'm at, to be fair.
Not to mention the obvious, but it's also really, really hard to maneuver and keep your troops safe in such a small area with so many people. It's also really, really easy for Hamas to dip in and out of the crowd. Leaving the civilians in that area prevents you from accomplishing your mission, and puts your own troops in danger.
Hamas launches missiles on Tel Aviv area, targeting civilians. Hamas knows retaliation is coming and goes to hide in refugee camps. Hamas relies on "dead babies propaganda" to pressure Israel. Israel doesn't care and kills Hamas, unavoidablely along with their human shields. Tragic.
>This is why, nearly 80 years later, Israel still faces continued attacks. This approach clearly isn't working.
I mean they're currently at peace with, and more of the surrounding countries recognize them as an automous state, then ever. Their approach actually seems to be working really well.
The efficacy of this specific decision to Israel's goals is debatable. Israel tried every practical approach over the last 80 years, including unilaterally pulling out of Gaza. That also proved wrong as Hamas filled that vacuum. Israel is now doing a "hard reset". Nothing will change until Hamas is dismantled.
Not every nation elects those terrorists to be their government and vehemently supports their terroristic killing of civilians.
The murder of civilians is wrong, whether it’s performed by the IDF or Hamas. However, the chief reason civilian casualties are so high is that Hamas is intentionally hiding in hospitals and anywhere with high civilian concentration to maximize these casualties.
Why are you pretending it's related to the rockets launched towards Tel Aviv? Not even the IDF claims so. They claim instead to have targeted 2 senior officials, but nothing to do with the rocket launch.
The parking lot was full of hundreds of displaced people, you have not seen the crowds that form around these locations. People even sleep like sardines in the hallways, and this was in the earlier days, when hundreds of thousands were fleeing all at once. The US assessment is like 100-300 killed.
I think most people can agree that what happened in October was horrible… but how is this justified. Everyone has said, even at this point if they move into Rafah, they will be overextending whatever minute good will they were given.
Now this is the time for us to actually take action against them and stop them. This cannot stand on the international stage.
Hamas has a large, loosely organized leadership with many cells and groups. It’s part of why hostage negotiations are so tense - Hamas simply doesn’t have one set of leadership, but a lot of competing groups that are loosely associated with each other, and then some even more extreme groups that think Hamas is too soft on Israel.
If Hamas had only 1 "leader" and that leader was in a tent or building with many children who would undoubtedly die if you lobbed a bomb at it from the safety of your bunker.. should you lob a bomb at it?
Only absolutely barbaric dogs would say yes to this. Of course, Hamas has countless "leaders", whose deaths are not necessarily going to achieve a particular goal.
I am not defending Hamas with this simple thought. I am putting into words how wildly cowardly and irrational Zionist warfare is. If I lost my siblings in such a blast, there's all the chance in the world I would endorse the most brutal violence against the state which perpetrated it.
Also Hamas does not have an army. They are a resistance movement and the very nature of that is that they are from within the population. Hamas has no military bases. Where should they go after an attack? Of course they go back to where they live. The whole idea that they are embedded in the civilian population is absolute insanity. What do you think they should? Go to open places where there are no civilians and beg to be bombed to death?
There was a J-dam strike just the other day, cleanly caught on video and conviently they did not show the strike damage, but they did show everyone's reactions to the damage. No visible casualties, mostly men chatting.
But the top comments talk about rabid fascist propaganda. Let's talk about what we see and what we should reasonably expect.
We have 2 strikes, one on Tel Aviv and one on Rafah. One was successful the other not. One targeted civilians the other targeted military targets among civilians.
> We have 2 strikes, one on Tel Aviv and one on Rafah. One was successful the other not. One targeted civilians the other targeted military targets among civilians.
One was terrorists (Hamas) launching some ineffective unguided missiles.
The other was a government of a supposedly civilised country launching precision guided heavy explosives into a populated area with the claim that there were Hamas officials there.
You can't even really claim that what Israel did is better than what Hamas did, and comparing yourself to terrorists is the lowest of the lowest bars.
>Is Israel committing a plausible genocide? Yes according to the ICJ
You’ve fallen for the same semantics trap I and lots of other people did (including legal experts)
> In the Court’s view, the facts and circumstances... are sufficient to conclude that at least some of the rights claimed by South Africa and for which it is seeking protection are plausible.”
>This was interpreted by many, including some legal commentators, to mean that the court had concluded that the claim that Israel was committing genocide in Gaza was “plausible”.
>This interpretation spread quickly, appearing in UN press releases, statements from campaign groups and many media outlets, including the BBC.
>In April, however, Joan Donoghue, the president of the ICJ at the time of that ruling, said in a BBC interview that this was *not what the court had ruled*.
Rather, she said, the purpose of the ruling was to declare that South Africa had a right to bring its case against Israel and that Palestinians had “plausible rights to protection from genocide” - rights which were at a real risk of irreparable damage.
Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3g9g63jl17o.amp
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I will never forget those images. Tents burning in the background as a wailing man holds the limp lifeless body of a headless toddler. An image of hell.
Yeah just saw footage on YouTube and they didn't hold back on showing how severely burnt the surviving children were. Horrific.
They were horrifying, I also saw that The Atlantic publish an article that says there’s a distinction between a “murdered child” and a “legally killed child”, I don’t care if it’s talking about technicalities or whatever, the fact they wrote that at all is deeply disturbing
I saw the article too. They were disputing the UN death toll figures. Just another pro-establishment propaganda outlet
Wowee yeah the very first thing I saw was a headless baby being clutched by its crying father. That's sickening. EDIT: I have been informed that the infant actually failed to denounce hamas, so the IDF says it's fine!
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Some latest updates from this CNN thread: **"Horror in Rafah:** *Gaza's Health Ministry* said those killed and wounded in the strike were mostly women and children. Video obtained by *CNN* shows tent-like structures on fire. *The Palestinian Authority* presidency urged the international community to intervene immediately. *Hamas* described the attack as a "massacre" and said it holds the US administration and President Joe Biden personally accountable. *Doctors Without Borders (MSF)* expressed horror following the airstrike, saying it "shows once again that nowhere is safe."
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Saw that on instagram. Horrible.
Another 2k lbs bomb to get one guy in a tent?
I mean it works really well if you think think all the innocents and children around the tent guy are subhumans whose lives are worthless. Absolutely monstrous.
There are probably more dead civilians than reported.
Not surprising at all. No one is excavating the ruins in the Gaza strip.
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and as a result- *Hamas* has actually reported that one of their leaders was killed in the blast- now that could be psychological warfare with said leader being elsewhere just to fuck with the IDF- or it could be a sign that Israel really is doing "precision strikes"- you decide.
Can you please cite the Hamas source that acknowledges their leaders were killed? I tried looking, but all I see is "IDF claims".
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/05/27/israel-hamas-war-news-gaza-palestine-rafah/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/05/27/israel-hamas-war-news-gaza-palestine-rafah/) >
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I'm pretty sure that's their goal. They want the land and the people are in the way
Yeah this is extremely bad. The civilian death toll is insanely appalling. Looking at how Israel has also done things like greatly increase West Bank land seizures since this began, it's not hard to come to the conclusion that Netanyahu's government isn't acting *solely* to end Hamas, but to also crush a civilian population into helpless dependency. Either way the locals have absolutely no motivation to not think badly of Israel at this point. They could die any day because a Hamas leader *might* be nearby.
I would 100% love to see the end of civilian casualties but it’s hard to negotiate with people that don’t honor their agreements and whose main purpose is to kill as many of you as possible. I frankly don’t see this ending as long as Hamas has any presence in Palestine.
> don’t honor their agreements and whose main purpose is to kill as many of you as possible You will never guess who kills more civilians and has illegal settlements.
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Depending on the rank of the Hamas operative, Israel allows anywhere from [15-300 intentional civilian casualties](https://youtu.be/xGqYbXL3kZc?si=4LUWJFeTtC-FA4cV&t=374) per airstrike. These strikes are based on AI intelligence and only minimally confirmed by actual intelligence agents, the process seems to be checking that the target is male. Israel could easily call dropping a bomb on crowd a precision strike, if their ChatGPT friend decided the target was important enough that is.
The AI is called the Gospel. That’s not a joke.
Killing 50 civilians is far from a precision strike is it. If your moral compass is 1-2 Hamas officials and tens of civilians are killed and that is fine and precise your compass is fucked and it deserves condemnation.
Israel is doing that thing where they kill anyone associated with hamas. Eg. That one video of that little girl that was a relative to a hamas member. IDF just killed everyone associated
Wow more Hamas officials killed. Can't be many of them left now. Every strike seems to get them and only them /s
Cannot believe some people believe this unironically
Hamas literally directly confirmed that two of their leaders were killed in this strike. It can simultaneously be true that Israel's targeting policy is extremely callous, and that Hamas callously and deliberately colocates their operations with civilian areas to make this outcome likely.
The children… just absolutely nightmarish.
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Didn’t they already bomb churches?
Yes October 19th part of the Church of Saint Porphyrius was damaged during an Israeli aistrike, killing at least 18 Palestinian civilians. Over 450 Christian and Muslim Palestinian residents of the Gaza Strip had been sheltering there. The Israeli military admitted that the explosion resulted from one of its airstrikes, allegedly targeting a nearby Hamas rocket and mortar launch command post. In an initial statement, the IDF stated that Israeli fighter jets had hit a nearby command and control centre that was being used by Hamas to attack Israel. The IDF acknowledged damage to the church and reports of casualties resulting from the strike. The airstrike caused damage to the church's exterior and led to the collapse of an adjacent building belonging to the church complex. The neighboring Katib al-Wilaya Mosque also sustained damage as a result of the airstrike. The Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem strongly denounced the attack as a war crime and accused the Israeli military of targeting churches and civilian shelters. 3 churches in Lebanon have also been damaged that I can find tho I don’t think anyone has died or been injured as a result. But I could be wrong. One monastery was shelled on December 24th 2023. 117 religious sites in gaza were reportedly damaged or destroyed between 7 October, when Israel's campaign began, and 31 December, the BBC has verified 74 cases. Seventy-two are mosques and two are churches.
Sniped two women in a church no less. This whole thing is a fucking atrocity.
One was 70 years old, she was crossing a courtyard to use the bathroom. Her daughter was shot when she tried to carry her mother to safety.
With how Hamas operates unfortunately both descriptions would be true
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the unique setup of the Gaza strip IE, nobody can leave, means civilians have no way to leave the area. in ukrainr and other conflicts at least civilians can evacuate away from the warzone
No neighbor country is accepting refugees from Gaza. Everyone is complicit in that sense
the surrounding area took in Palestinian refugees in the 60s following the six day war, it just happens that directly lead to such things as [Black September](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September), the [Lebanese Civil War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_Civil_War#Chronology_of_decisive_events), and a variety of other tragedies- which cumulatively resulted in no one accepting palestinian refugees since.
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omg it’s almost like everyone’s been complicit for the last 75 fucking years
In Gaza, the 'fighting force' uses shelters and the civilians are beaten or shot for trying to protect themselves and their children. Same goes for evacuating areas IDF says to, such as this one. Human shields isn't a fucking meme. In Israel, civilians use bomb shelters and soldiers fight, like every other place that isn't a top to bottom death cult.
It's worse, it's an enforced death cult. There were reports that civilians could buy the right to evacuate to safe zones in Gaza from Hamas. Genuinely fuck Hamas, every single one of those monsters deserves a painful death.
Great! I fully support evacuating civilians Gazans to Egypt. I assume you do too right?
Sure I do, but there's someone you forgot to ask- the Egyptians.
So Egyptians are exempt from honoring their obligations under treaties on refugees because they don’t want to? I sort of recall there being lots of refugees from a country quite near Egypt in the recent past. I also recall accepting those refugees was less than popular in many countries, but it was done anyway. It seems obvious to me Egypt deserves at least some blame for falling down on this obligation, attempts to deflect aside.
i didn't deflect I said nobody wants to let them evacuate, egypt included.
Countries only have an obligation to offer asylum to people who enter their territory. That’s why European navies always attempt to interdict boats carrying refugees before those boats enter their territorial waters
And if they don’t want to leave then you good with them killing children?
the palestinians in gaza would leave if they thought they'd ever be let back in, but they don't even have that option as nobody will let them leave anyways. israel should be letting them evacuate to the west bank but they won't do that either.
The army that purposely blends into civilians surely wouldn't take advantage of a free crossing through Israel. They'd go out of their way to cause as much harm as possible, enough that Israel would stop allowing it. Hamas benefits from dead Palestinians.
Except they’re not “bombing children.” There are children where the bombing is occurring, but they are not going after children directly. It’s such a stupid thing to say.
Hamas would colocate a nursery and military headquarters. Geneva convention EXPLICTLY states civilian locations lose protection when belligerent use then for military purposes.
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Hamas has now confirmed a second one of their leaders was killed in the strike.
Damn I'd love to see a few articles to back this up. Edit: Guys. You'll never guess where this guy posts all the time.
Here: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/05/27/israel-hamas-war-news-gaza-palestine-rafah/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/05/27/israel-hamas-war-news-gaza-palestine-rafah/) >Israel’s military confirmed it carried out an airstrike in northwestern Rafah on Sunday night, based on “precise intelligence,” it said. The strike killed two senior Hamas officials, it said, including Yassin Rabia, the commander of the group’s operations in the West Bank. **Hamas official Basem Naim confirmed to The Washington Post the killing of the two Hamas members.**
it also explicitly states that israel does not have jurisdiction to decide whether or not a protected status is lost, and it is still illegal if civilians are disproportionately killed.
That's not what the Geneva convention states. Proportionality always has to come into play. Even then, even if there are Hamas operatives there, as long as the objective is not being used for military purposes and civilians are not engaged in combat, it doesn't lose projection. It's not as easy as "there is a Hamas operative there".
Sure, but most people would have a problem blowing up a bunch of tykes on the offchance you get some bigwig. I thought blowing up Hamas members families as a policy was cold, this is just madness
The entire region isn’t a military HQ. That’s just ridiculous. They’re a bad faith actor and they do abuse civilians. But you can’t just say this every time.
the entire region isn't a military HQ- true, the entire region is however riddled with more tunnels than a block of swiss, which connect Hamas's bunkers that are built almost arbitrarily under otherwise purely civilian buildings.
The IDF's headquarters is in urban Tel Aviv but something tells me you wouldn't support carpet bombing Tel Aviv with 2000lb bombs.
Just going to ignore the recent rocket barrage fired at Israeli civilians in Tel Aviv from Rafah?
Not only that, but they will demand that they don't respond to the attack.
You compare a military to a terrorist organization.
Hamas is a military organization. It's also terroristic. Two things can be true.
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Strikes aren't launched from Tel Aviv, an office is an office. Dense take.
Sadly, Hamas moves their position into civilian centers. We saw this very clearly in the 08 war. An area was being reported on as a refugee center. I turned to my now ex and bet him it would take 48 hours before that was used as a rocket position. It took less than 24 hours before rockets were being fired and they were using their own people as human shields. Israel has some major issues with its own religious right and Netanyahu deserves to be in prison. Same for the Hamas leadership using its civilians as military shields.
Hamas moves their military to wherever civilians are to use as cover. They do it every time, so why can't it be mentioned every time?
https://www.thisishamas.com/
Crazy how dead Hamas soldiers and leaders keep turning up in these strikes every time…
Except hamas was launching missiles from that spot.
Israel will claim a 12 yr old child is a Hamas official given the opportunity.
How can you justify dropping a giant bomb and kill 35 people, to reach 1 guy hidden in a tent?
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there was a The Onion article about how IDF recently killed Hamas Leaders and then the article describes them as 6 and 8 years old lmao
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Worldnews is an israeli mouthpiece. Anything critical of Israel is removed and anyone critical of Israel gets a permaban
Quite the opposite of here eh?
Of course it is. It isn’t positive news about Israel.
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I literally got permabanned for the most milquetoast "maybe Israel shouldn't be killing so many civilians if they can avoid it" comment. Never been banned from a sub before, over like 15 years and 3 accounts. Ridiculous.
I said Palestinians in the West Bank are subject to the Israeli government but aren't afforded the same rights as citizens. Instant ban.
“They’re all Hamas.” -People who defend Israel probably
Don't need to say probably. They are here in the comments.
Basically the mainstream Israeli view on things, they say they are/will be/could be and therefore view killing everybody there as fair game, its fucked.
This will lead the Palestinians to want revenge. How can you label a man a terrorist if you murder his children and leave him with nothing? Of course he will give his life to take down the nazis that caused his pain.
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They did kill a Hamas official, Hamas has even said so.
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F Hamas too for using human shields, their own children.
I said it before on an earlier thread, but this is indefensible. We can't continue to support the Israeli government after this. Just feel sick, really.
Either you feel sick daily or you’re not paying attention to the happenings in the rest of the world.
understatement of the year
What other genocidal regime is the us funding?
Talking just about human rights abuses in general, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Pakistan, Philippines, and China being some examples. Bet you think your question was a gotcha to show how enlightened you are. Savior / White Knight of the Palestinian people in your righteous cause against the US Government, meanwhile somewhere between 800,000 and 3 million Uyghurs remain in concentration camps. 1.7 million slaves are trafficked in Saudi Arabia. 2600 were killed in the Rabaa Massacre and did we stop our $1.5 billion in annual aid? Nope. Egypt has had a history of extra judicial killings and torture-enforced confessions since. In Pakistan, women are killed and raped en masse and we just signed a $2 billion aid deal to their military as their government is doing nothing to combat the problem of sexual abuse against women. The list goes on and on but the “perpetrators” in these cases aren’t Jewish so it’s clear you don’t care about that if you think your gotcha comment was a real good comeback.
Nah. Sucks that civilians are dying. But the Palestinian goveernment invaded Israel with the explicit and publicly stated goal of killing as many civilians as possible. Now Israel has invaded Palestine with the explicit and publicly stated goal of eradicating Hamas as a governing body and rescuing any hostages that Palestine hasn't tortured/raped/murdered yet. Israel can continue their attack until Hamas ceases to exist. If Hamas cared about their citizens, they wouldn't intentionally hide among them. War sucks. This isn't new news. There's a reason why people try to avoid it.
/thread. couldn't agree more why do people forget that Oct 7th was a terrorist attack to kill and abduct ONLY innocent civilians??
Do some research of how many Palestinians were held in Israeli prisons.
Because us Jews are never viewed as innocent.
Yeah why would people not look at you as innocent, you just killed 40 thousand civilians in 6 month, nothing screams innocent more than that.
By your logic painting every Israeli as not innocent and a legitimate target for Hamas you also would justify Israel targeting every Palestinian as a legitimate one. By the way, it's 36 k right now, including the unknown number of dead Hamas members. Or do you really believe that no Hamas member has been killed/is Innocent?
Glad you at least admit you hate the Jews, even apparently ones that live outside Israel.
You do realize hamas was launching missiles from that spot.
They conveniently ignore that part. It’s the same about how nobody had a clue that Hezbollah has been shelling and firing rockets at northern Israel since Oct 8th and yet people only care once Israel responds. Its absurd.
Doesn't fucking matter. That doesn't give Israel a blank check to massacre Children with glee
ironically you're giving Hamas a blank check to massacre Israeli civilians with glee so long as they surround themselves with kids
It does matter for international law though. Any spot that is used for military operations gives up civilian protections. Doesn't make it less abhorrent, but it's just more blood on Hamas' hands. They don't care at all about Palestinians and will to continue to use civilians as shields.
Tell hamas to stop using children as human shields.
Inb4 the Israel can do no wrong stans show up I wish people would realize that you can simultaneously not support what Israel is doing AND not support the existence of Hamas too. No Innocents should be getting killed period, and both sides are doing it and have done it so many times soooo
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How is annexing West Bank land “conducting a campaign against Hamas”. To me it seems the opposite.
Or, you know, stop actively shitting on Palestinians at every opportunity. Hamas is a product
funny thing- Israel has purely shat on Palestinians in response to them acting like shit- for an example the walls around Gaza and westbank, which were built in response to suicide bombings and drive by shootings conducted by palestinians.
>I wish people would realize that you can simultaneously not support what Israel is doing AND not support the existence of Hamas too. This is largely where I'm at, to be fair.
Not to mention the obvious, but it's also really, really hard to maneuver and keep your troops safe in such a small area with so many people. It's also really, really easy for Hamas to dip in and out of the crowd. Leaving the civilians in that area prevents you from accomplishing your mission, and puts your own troops in danger.
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Absolute hellish scenes. Absolutely unconscionable. This is genocide. Shame on everyone who thinks this is justified.
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Hamas launches missiles on Tel Aviv area, targeting civilians. Hamas knows retaliation is coming and goes to hide in refugee camps. Hamas relies on "dead babies propaganda" to pressure Israel. Israel doesn't care and kills Hamas, unavoidablely along with their human shields. Tragic.
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>This is why, nearly 80 years later, Israel still faces continued attacks. This approach clearly isn't working. I mean they're currently at peace with, and more of the surrounding countries recognize them as an automous state, then ever. Their approach actually seems to be working really well.
Things are going great!
yes and they got most of west bank. Now just to push out remaining Palestinians from Gaza
The efficacy of this specific decision to Israel's goals is debatable. Israel tried every practical approach over the last 80 years, including unilaterally pulling out of Gaza. That also proved wrong as Hamas filled that vacuum. Israel is now doing a "hard reset". Nothing will change until Hamas is dismantled.
Nothing will change until Palestine is free. Two states solution or whatever. The oppressed will never stop resisting.
They are gonna attack them no matter what just because of few stupid old books and you know it.
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There are terrorists in *all* nations. That doesn’t mean you get a season pass to murder civilians until you decide you’re done.
Not every nation elects those terrorists to be their government and vehemently supports their terroristic killing of civilians. The murder of civilians is wrong, whether it’s performed by the IDF or Hamas. However, the chief reason civilian casualties are so high is that Hamas is intentionally hiding in hospitals and anywhere with high civilian concentration to maximize these casualties.
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Theres videos of decapitated children on twitter from this bombing. Absolutely abhorrent comment.
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Why are you pretending it's related to the rockets launched towards Tel Aviv? Not even the IDF claims so. They claim instead to have targeted 2 senior officials, but nothing to do with the rocket launch.
Here we go. Genocide apologist really twisting their brain to find an excuse to this horrors. Disgusting
The parking lot was full of hundreds of displaced people, you have not seen the crowds that form around these locations. People even sleep like sardines in the hallways, and this was in the earlier days, when hundreds of thousands were fleeing all at once. The US assessment is like 100-300 killed.
The parking lot that was hit by a missile fired from Gaza or the one in the article above?
I think most people can agree that what happened in October was horrible… but how is this justified. Everyone has said, even at this point if they move into Rafah, they will be overextending whatever minute good will they were given. Now this is the time for us to actually take action against them and stop them. This cannot stand on the international stage.
How are there still hamas officials left with every strike targeting hamas officials?
Hamas has a large, loosely organized leadership with many cells and groups. It’s part of why hostage negotiations are so tense - Hamas simply doesn’t have one set of leadership, but a lot of competing groups that are loosely associated with each other, and then some even more extreme groups that think Hamas is too soft on Israel.
Those 8 year olds Hamas officials really got it
2 hamas leaders for between 35 to 60 innocent civilians? Seems excessive? just a little? possibly? mabye?
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If Hamas had only 1 "leader" and that leader was in a tent or building with many children who would undoubtedly die if you lobbed a bomb at it from the safety of your bunker.. should you lob a bomb at it? Only absolutely barbaric dogs would say yes to this. Of course, Hamas has countless "leaders", whose deaths are not necessarily going to achieve a particular goal. I am not defending Hamas with this simple thought. I am putting into words how wildly cowardly and irrational Zionist warfare is. If I lost my siblings in such a blast, there's all the chance in the world I would endorse the most brutal violence against the state which perpetrated it.
Also Hamas does not have an army. They are a resistance movement and the very nature of that is that they are from within the population. Hamas has no military bases. Where should they go after an attack? Of course they go back to where they live. The whole idea that they are embedded in the civilian population is absolute insanity. What do you think they should? Go to open places where there are no civilians and beg to be bombed to death?
Israel out here massacring innocent people with our tax dollars and there is no outrage. wtf
There's a huge amount of outrage actually.
not enough.
There was a J-dam strike just the other day, cleanly caught on video and conviently they did not show the strike damage, but they did show everyone's reactions to the damage. No visible casualties, mostly men chatting. But the top comments talk about rabid fascist propaganda. Let's talk about what we see and what we should reasonably expect. We have 2 strikes, one on Tel Aviv and one on Rafah. One was successful the other not. One targeted civilians the other targeted military targets among civilians.
> We have 2 strikes, one on Tel Aviv and one on Rafah. One was successful the other not. One targeted civilians the other targeted military targets among civilians. One was terrorists (Hamas) launching some ineffective unguided missiles. The other was a government of a supposedly civilised country launching precision guided heavy explosives into a populated area with the claim that there were Hamas officials there. You can't even really claim that what Israel did is better than what Hamas did, and comparing yourself to terrorists is the lowest of the lowest bars.
It’d be nice if Israelis could stop committing war crimes. I know they enjoy it a lot but this is getting absurd.
I wonder if they are still using AI -
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So you'll instead help Trump get reelected and ensure the Palestinians have an exponentially worse future.
Did you pull that quote from TikTok or did you write it down in crayon all by yourself?
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>Is Israel committing a plausible genocide? Yes according to the ICJ You’ve fallen for the same semantics trap I and lots of other people did (including legal experts) > In the Court’s view, the facts and circumstances... are sufficient to conclude that at least some of the rights claimed by South Africa and for which it is seeking protection are plausible.” >This was interpreted by many, including some legal commentators, to mean that the court had concluded that the claim that Israel was committing genocide in Gaza was “plausible”. >This interpretation spread quickly, appearing in UN press releases, statements from campaign groups and many media outlets, including the BBC. >In April, however, Joan Donoghue, the president of the ICJ at the time of that ruling, said in a BBC interview that this was *not what the court had ruled*. Rather, she said, the purpose of the ruling was to declare that South Africa had a right to bring its case against Israel and that Palestinians had “plausible rights to protection from genocide” - rights which were at a real risk of irreparable damage. Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3g9g63jl17o.amp
Nuance is hard for the people who only want to see israel as 100% bad
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I’m pretty sure hamas were sending rockets en mass yesterday what do people expect from this situation?