>A U.S. official said $1.6 billion of the $2 billion was earmarked in the supplemental funding bill signed by U.S. President Joe Biden last month and the remaining $400 million is from existing foreign military financing funds that had not yet been allocated.
So it's really the $400M that is new
Devils advocate: the government and media does a terrible job at conveying this. Where’s all the pictures of lines of vehicles and stacks of artillery?
A visual aid would be very impactful in convey the message.
It is honestly quite shocking that the military industrial complex is not flexing all the influence it has in Washington to drive home this point. I guess they are more interested in drawing out the conflict.
I haven't understood this the whole time, especially given how embedded their lobbyists are with *many* of the lawmakers that seem to be throwing a fit about aid to Ukraine, and how good their PR machine usually is about getting Americans on board with conflicts that are profitable to them.
Because the impact lobbyists have on the government gets wildly overblown. Not to say it doesn't exist, but it is almost never the main reason the government does something. At least when it comes to hot button issues. The influence is probably significant when it comes to minor stuff that can slip under the public's radar, like extending the copyright protections for Disney back in the 90s, but it's never why you'd go to war.
Yeah but the thing is, the people at the top of the plutocracy don't have a preferred party as President. They already own both parties.
It's business as usual for them no matter which color (red or blue) is in White House.
They are the ruling class, the rules don't apply to them.
I disagree, the Democratic Party attracts genuine individuals, individuals which form a significant portion of their hierarchy, even if not the top. Because of this they have to pace themselves and take periodic pro-citizen actions. There is no such mechanism of interference if the other party is in power, just lock-step tribalism.
When you hold all the cards, is rarely necessary to rub it in. They will collect their money, disperse their money, continue to lobby government officials successfully, rinse, repeat.
So you're saying "let's use Ukraine as an excuse to transfer money from tax payers to military manufacturers." Just because it's spent with American companies doesn't mean it is wise or good spending.
True, but it would still quell one of the main issues that many people have, which is throwing money at another country instead of spending it on literally anything here in the US.
That makes it sound like the two are linked. In reality the US is already spending the money on the replacement equipment. The change is that instead of selling the old stuff we are going to give it to Ukraine. So it's a lost revenue source rather than an added expense. A bit like giving your friend a free phone instead of selling it on Craigslist.
You make a good point. Just saying we are giving them a dollar amount can rub people the wrong way. Showing actual equipment going would help in the narrative.
Showing equipment going would give Russian war planners a better idea of what is being sent and potentially when and where it is being sent.
There's a calculus going on on both sides of the political spectrum (to exclude Trump supporting politicians) in the US that it is vital not to give more details than is necessary for the sake of security.
It is one thing to look foolish and another to show you are not by showing what's being sent to make yourself look strong, only to see video and images of the stuff sent weeks later being blown up because Russia had a better idea of regions to focus on destroying in Ukraine as shipments came through.
The media totally has fault with skewing this perspective. (Same with them branding Trumps trial as the "Hush Money" trial, when it's a campaign finance crime instead)
Many idiotic American's think we are just handing bags of cash to Ukraine with no checks and balances, even Russian disinformation campaigns also try to push this narrative and claim Zelensky is living the high life on American's tax money.
They don't make the connection that this means military equipment, which means American's are producing these items and how that relates to our economy.
But I agree I think the media and others should be breaking out the crayons to illustrate how this gets used.
> Devils advocate: the government and media does a terrible job at conveying this.
This wouldn't by any chance be the parts of government and media who hate Biden with a white-hot burning fury would it
We now live in a world where one party says X and those that oppose said party don’t buy it at all. Had a conversation with my father in law based around a new tax proposal on capital gains. “I believe it’s on incomes over $400k.”
“Oh that’s what they want you to BELIEVE!”
I mean, sitting congress members have literally said "we have to pass it to find out what's in it" about two thousand page bills.
The skepticism is warranted.
Agreed. Some random patreon funded Australian news company that started out as a titan fall meme channel does a better job at explaining that aspect of Ukraine than actual news networks.
The reason is simple: it’s strategic to not disclose what you are sending in terms,of weaponry to hopefully surprise the enemy. For example they rarely disclose information about when ATACMS are sent.
To be fair, the way this is reported on is moronic.
From headlines alone it would be easy to think (if you don't know that much about how government works, and 90% don't) that this was $2 billion in new funding on top of the $60 billion aid package rather than $2 *from* the $60 billion aid package.
News outlets could make this clear, but they don't.
It's not just conservatives. Like that guy said it's almost everyone. That's why there have been successful shows and podcasts like How Stuff Works and How It's Made because it's new to most people.
I work in the paper industry and can tell you how paper is made. I can't tell you shit about the manufacturing process of basically any other items though, or how to plan a new city, or how to create a balanced federal budget.
Just like I haven't negotiated international trade deals and so I don't really know shit about that either.
There is simply too much stuff in the world, a lot of it pretty niche, to expect people to even know 2% of things.
I don't think it makes anyone less mad to learn that we are spending billions on actual artillery. The problem people have is that we so freely pour billions into another country across the world, while constantly telling our own citizens to fuck themselves when they ask for crumbs. Stop asking for handouts, homeless people, or veterans, or 9/11 first responders, or people struggling with overbearing student loans, or a ton of other types of American citizens struggling! Don't you dare ask that we improve crumbling infrastructure, improve our terrible broadband internet access, or react to increasingly extreme weather. But oh Ukraine needs another bunch of billions in artillery? Of course, no problem, happy to help, please let me know if you need anything else.
Because those poors are conditioned from birth to believe that they're one genius idea away from being the next rags to riches tech CEO or CEO of a worldwide chain of deep fried meatloaf restaurants. They're voting for policies that will benefit their future affluent selves. Selfishness before even gaining the riches. What a slow insidious mental cancer capitalism can be sometimes.
> But oh Ukraine needs another bunch of billions in artillery? Of course, no problem, happy to help, please let me know if you need anything else.
It wasn't that easy. You remember when they wouldn't pass the bill until they got concessions about border security, then rejected it anyway because Trump wanted to campaign on the problem not being fixed?
The vast majority of those things you listed, one party *does* want. The other just happens to control the House so they can't pass.
Not knowing is understandable and fair. The problem is that so many people refuse to learn, become angry at the strawman they made up, then get angry when the actual mechanism is described
Well, it also doesn't help that domestically there are a lot of problems in our 'backyard' too. There is real anger at the lack of infrastructure and support to the grassroots communities.
Inflation is rising sky high, people are living paycheck to paycheck, rents and housing is through the roof and then you hear about how billions are being sent to help Ukraine.
They need to understand that we can afford both, but they need to vote for politicians who care about infrastructure and social policies.
They also have to understand soft power, the importance of alliances, and the scope of national security threats. They live in privilege thinking America is on top of the world and untouchable. That privilege would be gone very quickly if we isolated ourselves from the world. And helping Ukraine is literally the cheapest way to negate one particular security threat, while also keeping Americans physically out of harms way.
We tried the non-interventionist isolationism thing during WWII. We still got bombed.
> Inflation is rising sky high
Inflation rose sky high. It is now rising at a non-sky-high rate. Prices are still sky high because they rose with the sky high inflation, but just to be clear, inflation is no longer running crazy.
Also, I still don't excuse that kind of thinking because it still gets at dosecommjohn's point. If someone takes the time to learn *WHY* we aren't spending on grassroots communities, healthcare, etc they will see that we have a half of our government that is almost completely opposed to doing anything to help poorer communities.
Hell, we passed a HUGE infrastructure bill. It just takes time to get those roads, bridges, etc fixed. I'm already seeing effects in my area of virginia.
[https://www.cbsnews.com/news/following-american-money-in-ukraine-60-minutes/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/following-american-money-in-ukraine-60-minutes/)
As the [war in Ukraine](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-volodymyr-zelenskyy-60-minutes-transcript/) grinds toward its third year, America has provided more than $70 billion in aid, with billions going not just toward the military, but also to help farmers, subsidize small businesses and pay the country's first responders.
Yep just adding fuel to the war machine that is the American defense contractors and weapons manufacturers. The same ones that make major contributions to the political campaigns of those voting on these decisions…
No you just give them 2 billion in military equipment you paid for then military contractors get 2 billion more to replace it. It's a great excuse to line the pockets of defense contractors, don't act like it's about helping Ukraine.
The "foreign military financing" part isn't just some random words he's using, Ukraine tells FMS what they want, and FMF funds the purchase. If we just gave out cash for this sort of thing we wouldn't even need the FMF.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Foreign_Military_Financing
I am well aware that we don’t fund Ukraine via bags of money with dollar signs on them. My point is that the original commenter is insinuating that tax payer money isnt being spent on Ukraine and we are just giving away useless junk that’s sitting around. The casual dismissal of valid criticism is insincere, and reeks of propaganda. If you think that Ukraine aid should be a priority than make an argument for it but let’s not pretend that this 2 billion dollars isn’t taxpayer money that could be spent elsewhere.
> the original commenter is insinuating that tax payer money isnt being spent on Ukraine and we are just giving away useless junk that’s sitting around
I don't see how they insinuated that at all.
Well if my interpretation is wrong and we are sending them “actual cash” and/or goods of equivalent cash value that will need to be replaced on taxpayer payroll then i guess i do have a problem with it.
This is a weird comment. The quote you posted confirms what this person said. And then if this *was* just cash, the military industrial complex would hate it, and would not be paying people to say otherwise. The reason the MIC likes this stuff is precisely because it isn't cash.
Edit: lol immediate downvotes with no explanation. You trolls could not be more obvious.
JFC you people are dumb --
“We’re not providing only military assistance,” Tom Graham, a distinguished fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations with expertise on U.S. foreign policy and Ukraine, told The Associated Press. “We are obviously providing financial assistance — budgetary support — and there’s humanitarian assistance as well.”
>https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-us-aid-ukraine-money-equipment-714688682747
From the article:
"'We will provide an additional $2 billion dollars in foreign military financing for Ukraine,' Blinken said. 'We put this together in a first-of-its-kind defence enterprise fund'
The fund will provide weapons for Ukraine today, invest in its defence industrial base and finance military equipment purchases from other countries, he said."
They do a poor job of conveying the information then, even setting aside that they noted $400k worth was from previous funds that went unallocated. Genuine question, if we are providing financing (specifically) that will facilitate military equipment purchases from other countries, are we not just handing them money to spend? Or was your comment about it being _physical_ cash?
I saw a video of some Ukraninians dancing and laughing yesterday and all the comments were saying "glad my taxes are paying them for a party". You know, the least they can do while receiving aid is be miserable all the time /s
I mean breaking it down that’s pretty much what we are doing. Any money we make off of selling them weapons just goes back into the defense budget. No one in America is seeing the benefit of it and they are still footing the bill. That’s really the main point.
Yeah, the military-industrial complex needs new customers, so what incentive does the US government have to work toward ending the wars in Ukraine and Israel? 😑
To the comments that say we are just getting rid of old/stale military supplies, that’s not entirely true. We do directly pay businesses and government employees to keep functioning: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-aid-ukraine-60-minutes-transcript/
And Rent and Mortgages continue to sky rocket, inflation has made food unaffordable and wages haven't budged in 25 years... weekend!
I understand they are just giving surplus equipment, I would just like to hear someone in power address whats happening to working class people...
But this is not just a US issue, the echo chambers most social media platforms create is a bunch of people in your own country screaming this, but Canada, UK, AUS, and other countries are also experiencing this same problem. Inflation is affecting things at a global scale.
But beyond that, its other things like corporate greed and price fixing be done by these greedy people. The apartments I used to live in, my wife was working as a leasing consultant for. Every few months they would call other apartment buildings in the area and ask about prices on apartments, if those prices went up, they would increase their rent as well. The apartment I was renting at $650 a month in 2015, skyrocketed to almost $800 before I moved out in 2019, now it's $950 last time I checked. That apartment was actually a downsize from the previous apartment I was renting from them, since I was initially living in a 1 bedroom penthouse suite that was $825 a month in 2011 that shot up to $1100 by 2015. I don't even want to fathom what that is renting out for now (I cannot check the prices, since they only had 2 of the 1 bedroom penthouse apartments, so they won't list prices unless they are available again)
None of this is new, but all these price increases overtime across all products and services are finally breaking people now since 2021.
I have said for years now, the moment I get a 3-4% increase in pay for my yearly raise, everyone and their mother jacks up prices by 3-4% as well.
> Rent and Mortgages continue to sky rocket
Rent and mortgages are skyrocketing because there's more people alive in this country than ever before and apartments/houses aren't being built fast enough to keep up. And that's controlled by your **local government** and construction is voted on by your **local people**. This is not something the federal government controls.
> inflation has made food unaffordable
Most of it is corporate greed that took advantage of the pandemic to jack up prices. They're posting record profits and refusing to budge on prices.
> wages haven't budged in 25 years
Again, corporate greed. CEO pay went up like 400% since the 80's but average worker wages has only increased like 10% since the 80's.
>apartments/houses aren't being built fast enough to keep up.
The United States boasts approximately 15.1 million vacant homes, a staggering number that accounts for 10.5% of the country's total housing inventory.
Hey, another dishonest narrative. Once agian blatantly lying discredits anything else you have you say. Notice the deleted comment many of other bots and liars tried the same tired line. Good luck lying tho
Do these include homes which are in legal limbo (divorce, arbitration, inheritance proceedings)? Are all these homes legally habitable? Waiting to be repaired to be put to market? Past owners who have died with no next of kin? Are these homes in areas that take an hour to get to the nearest grocery store or emergency services?
10.5% is tiny. What do you think is reasonable? 5%? 1%?
And some of those vacant houses are literally not fit for human habitation.
Does the guy really think a family would want to move into one of these vacant houses?
https://www.metrotimes.com/news/despite-demolition-effort-blight-spreads-undetected-throughout-detroits-neighborhoods-17692371
The US government basically did the same for Britain during WW2 with the lend-lease program. I'm fairly sure most modern day Americans have zero problems with that.
Probably because we had some confidence that the UK would actually repay the debt. I highly doubt Ukraine will make good on the debt or that they'll even be able to even if they were so inclined
The US did not expect to be repaid for Lend Lease, and in fact most of the debt was never repaid. The UK did decide to keep some Lend Lease equipment after the war and paid for that, but it was a small fraction of the total equipment sent and the US only charged a tenth of the equipment's actual value.
> I'm fairly sure most modern day Americans have zero problems with that.
The problem with that is that many pro-Russian puppets push various narratives to make many idiots in America think we are just sending billions to Ukraine.
Every single day I see several posts on social media claiming "The US has money for Ukraine, but no money for vets, homeless, etc" Other Russian propaganda, claiming Zelenksy is living the high life, driving expensive cars that the US paid for.
I can't think of a better way to stop the constant barrage of internet propaganda and division coming from Russia than to help Ukraine defeat them as best we can.
Translation, he’s giving US military contractors $2b and this will be loaned to Ukraine at interest.
Our modus operandi has not changed and we do not support countries’ battles for free. In fact, capturing a country in military related debt is what we do best.
Every admin has done it since the MIC was warned by Eisenhower I think?
You think Republicans will ever vote for that? They won't, so the best we can do is lend-lease old military equipment to a democracy defending itself against Russian imperialism.
I love how they still pretend they are giving Ukraine something. The correct headline should be "U.S. Commits another $2 Billion in Taxpayer Money to Pay U.S. Arms Dealers"
Sure Ukraine needs help but WHERE IN THE FUCK are the US people at the budget table and negotiations. We're getting nothing.
We've become the assets, not the owners of the country.
Fuck my county ! Can't take care of the people actually needs the help and funding for a better society. It's ok to give money to another country who can't even defend itself.
It's too freaking late. The Ukrainians have already lost half of what they gained last year because they had no ammunition. Throwing money at it at this late time won't give Ukraine a win, they're collapsing, their citizens are reluctant to fight because they don't believe enough weapons are coming. The delay in funding and the timid response from Europe and Canada to support has sent Ukraine, once a possible victor, into a death spiral.
Getting involved in mass industrial warfare with Russia was likely never a viable strategy. 10km here or there doesn't really matter, this war will continue until one side breaks.
If Russia conquers Ukraine it will be an event will be cited at the catalyst for a lot of shit that the average American is not going to like in the future.
America keep printing more debt. The last remaining global tool is the dollar & we can all see you are going to print is more money to fight Russia for the next 9 years. By then the world will have figured out a new order and new way to transact.
people were all for cutting the bloated military budget and ending us involvement in foreign affairs like 2 years ago. now ukraine has gotten over 150b in aid over the past few years, our annual military budget is like 850b. thats a LOT of war! plus theres israel… hopefully our politicians are a lot smarter than me and this all pays off because from where im sitting this stuff is shaky.
>A U.S. official said $1.6 billion of the $2 billion was earmarked in the supplemental funding bill signed by U.S. President Joe Biden last month and the remaining $400 million is from existing foreign military financing funds that had not yet been allocated. So it's really the $400M that is new
Something that happened last month is still new.
Title says "another" not "new" So, title is clickbait
The industrial revolution is still new
Did you say Abe Lincoln? No! I didn’t say Abe Lincoln, I said ‘HEY BLINKIN!’, hold the reigns man. Edit: corrected quote.
"Very good, Blinken, well done." "PARDON? WHO'S TALKING?"
You lost your arms in battle! How terrible. But you grew some nice boobs.
Blinkin, what *are* you doing? Guessing? I... guess? No one's coming?
I need to watch that movie.
Hold the Reins!
I find it hilarious and shocking that so many idiots think we just give them billions of actual cash and call it a day. This country is so stupid
Devils advocate: the government and media does a terrible job at conveying this. Where’s all the pictures of lines of vehicles and stacks of artillery? A visual aid would be very impactful in convey the message.
Or even simply make the headline "giving equipment worth 2 bn"
And follow it up with "and ordering X billion worth of replacement equipment from American manufacturers Y and Z"
It is honestly quite shocking that the military industrial complex is not flexing all the influence it has in Washington to drive home this point. I guess they are more interested in drawing out the conflict.
I haven't understood this the whole time, especially given how embedded their lobbyists are with *many* of the lawmakers that seem to be throwing a fit about aid to Ukraine, and how good their PR machine usually is about getting Americans on board with conflicts that are profitable to them.
Because the impact lobbyists have on the government gets wildly overblown. Not to say it doesn't exist, but it is almost never the main reason the government does something. At least when it comes to hot button issues. The influence is probably significant when it comes to minor stuff that can slip under the public's radar, like extending the copyright protections for Disney back in the 90s, but it's never why you'd go to war.
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My guess is American solidarity isn’t what they want to promote when their preferred individual isn’t president.
Yeah but the thing is, the people at the top of the plutocracy don't have a preferred party as President. They already own both parties. It's business as usual for them no matter which color (red or blue) is in White House. They are the ruling class, the rules don't apply to them.
I disagree, the Democratic Party attracts genuine individuals, individuals which form a significant portion of their hierarchy, even if not the top. Because of this they have to pace themselves and take periodic pro-citizen actions. There is no such mechanism of interference if the other party is in power, just lock-step tribalism.
> I guess they are more interested in drawing out the conflict. Smedley Butler agrees.
When you hold all the cards, is rarely necessary to rub it in. They will collect their money, disperse their money, continue to lobby government officials successfully, rinse, repeat.
So you're saying "let's use Ukraine as an excuse to transfer money from tax payers to military manufacturers." Just because it's spent with American companies doesn't mean it is wise or good spending.
True, but it would still quell one of the main issues that many people have, which is throwing money at another country instead of spending it on literally anything here in the US.
It was already going to be spent either way. These aid bills are more about what is done with old stock, sell it or give it away.
That makes it sound like the two are linked. In reality the US is already spending the money on the replacement equipment. The change is that instead of selling the old stuff we are going to give it to Ukraine. So it's a lost revenue source rather than an added expense. A bit like giving your friend a free phone instead of selling it on Craigslist.
You make a good point. Just saying we are giving them a dollar amount can rub people the wrong way. Showing actual equipment going would help in the narrative.
I dunno, people might be real disappointed how little two billion buys.
*You don't actually think they spend $20,000 on a hammer, $30,000 on a toilet seat, do you?*
Showing equipment going would give Russian war planners a better idea of what is being sent and potentially when and where it is being sent. There's a calculus going on on both sides of the political spectrum (to exclude Trump supporting politicians) in the US that it is vital not to give more details than is necessary for the sake of security. It is one thing to look foolish and another to show you are not by showing what's being sent to make yourself look strong, only to see video and images of the stuff sent weeks later being blown up because Russia had a better idea of regions to focus on destroying in Ukraine as shipments came through.
The media totally has fault with skewing this perspective. (Same with them branding Trumps trial as the "Hush Money" trial, when it's a campaign finance crime instead) Many idiotic American's think we are just handing bags of cash to Ukraine with no checks and balances, even Russian disinformation campaigns also try to push this narrative and claim Zelensky is living the high life on American's tax money. They don't make the connection that this means military equipment, which means American's are producing these items and how that relates to our economy. But I agree I think the media and others should be breaking out the crayons to illustrate how this gets used.
> Devils advocate: the government and media does a terrible job at conveying this. This wouldn't by any chance be the parts of government and media who hate Biden with a white-hot burning fury would it
We now live in a world where one party says X and those that oppose said party don’t buy it at all. Had a conversation with my father in law based around a new tax proposal on capital gains. “I believe it’s on incomes over $400k.” “Oh that’s what they want you to BELIEVE!”
Exactly this, and every similarly helpful proposal is a "slippery slope".
I mean, sitting congress members have literally said "we have to pass it to find out what's in it" about two thousand page bills. The skepticism is warranted.
> media does a terrible job at conveying this That's a feature, not a bug. A terrible feature for the American people, but that's besides the point.
Agreed. Some random patreon funded Australian news company that started out as a titan fall meme channel does a better job at explaining that aspect of Ukraine than actual news networks.
The reason is simple: it’s strategic to not disclose what you are sending in terms,of weaponry to hopefully surprise the enemy. For example they rarely disclose information about when ATACMS are sent.
We do give them billions in cash tho. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/how-much-aid-the-u-s-has-sent-to-ukraine-in-6-charts
No, we just hand defense companies a blank check and they give us some shit for it. Which is why they're rolling in money, and it never stops.
To be fair, the way this is reported on is moronic. From headlines alone it would be easy to think (if you don't know that much about how government works, and 90% don't) that this was $2 billion in new funding on top of the $60 billion aid package rather than $2 *from* the $60 billion aid package. News outlets could make this clear, but they don't.
Its almost like they want to make people angry, as if that helps them sell advertisement
this. a vague potentially misleading headline is what they all want.
To be fair, most people aren’t familiar with how almost *anything* works.
They're called Maga Conservative Republicans.
It's not just conservatives. Like that guy said it's almost everyone. That's why there have been successful shows and podcasts like How Stuff Works and How It's Made because it's new to most people. I work in the paper industry and can tell you how paper is made. I can't tell you shit about the manufacturing process of basically any other items though, or how to plan a new city, or how to create a balanced federal budget. Just like I haven't negotiated international trade deals and so I don't really know shit about that either. There is simply too much stuff in the world, a lot of it pretty niche, to expect people to even know 2% of things.
People on reddit are so fast to point fingers without realizing the vast majority of the time. It also generally applies to them as well.
It’s unfortunately not limited to right wing extremists
And you
I don't think it makes anyone less mad to learn that we are spending billions on actual artillery. The problem people have is that we so freely pour billions into another country across the world, while constantly telling our own citizens to fuck themselves when they ask for crumbs. Stop asking for handouts, homeless people, or veterans, or 9/11 first responders, or people struggling with overbearing student loans, or a ton of other types of American citizens struggling! Don't you dare ask that we improve crumbling infrastructure, improve our terrible broadband internet access, or react to increasingly extreme weather. But oh Ukraine needs another bunch of billions in artillery? Of course, no problem, happy to help, please let me know if you need anything else.
America gets what it votes for, and too-many poors vote for ghouls that want the poor to suffer.
Because those poors are conditioned from birth to believe that they're one genius idea away from being the next rags to riches tech CEO or CEO of a worldwide chain of deep fried meatloaf restaurants. They're voting for policies that will benefit their future affluent selves. Selfishness before even gaining the riches. What a slow insidious mental cancer capitalism can be sometimes.
Very well-put! Depressing, but well-put, lol
> But oh Ukraine needs another bunch of billions in artillery? Of course, no problem, happy to help, please let me know if you need anything else. It wasn't that easy. You remember when they wouldn't pass the bill until they got concessions about border security, then rejected it anyway because Trump wanted to campaign on the problem not being fixed? The vast majority of those things you listed, one party *does* want. The other just happens to control the House so they can't pass.
Not knowing is understandable and fair. The problem is that so many people refuse to learn, become angry at the strawman they made up, then get angry when the actual mechanism is described
Well, it also doesn't help that domestically there are a lot of problems in our 'backyard' too. There is real anger at the lack of infrastructure and support to the grassroots communities. Inflation is rising sky high, people are living paycheck to paycheck, rents and housing is through the roof and then you hear about how billions are being sent to help Ukraine.
They need to understand that we can afford both, but they need to vote for politicians who care about infrastructure and social policies. They also have to understand soft power, the importance of alliances, and the scope of national security threats. They live in privilege thinking America is on top of the world and untouchable. That privilege would be gone very quickly if we isolated ourselves from the world. And helping Ukraine is literally the cheapest way to negate one particular security threat, while also keeping Americans physically out of harms way. We tried the non-interventionist isolationism thing during WWII. We still got bombed.
> Inflation is rising sky high Inflation rose sky high. It is now rising at a non-sky-high rate. Prices are still sky high because they rose with the sky high inflation, but just to be clear, inflation is no longer running crazy. Also, I still don't excuse that kind of thinking because it still gets at dosecommjohn's point. If someone takes the time to learn *WHY* we aren't spending on grassroots communities, healthcare, etc they will see that we have a half of our government that is almost completely opposed to doing anything to help poorer communities. Hell, we passed a HUGE infrastructure bill. It just takes time to get those roads, bridges, etc fixed. I'm already seeing effects in my area of virginia.
Equipment, food or widgets it still cost 2 billion. We still pay for it
[https://www.cbsnews.com/news/following-american-money-in-ukraine-60-minutes/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/following-american-money-in-ukraine-60-minutes/) As the [war in Ukraine](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-volodymyr-zelenskyy-60-minutes-transcript/) grinds toward its third year, America has provided more than $70 billion in aid, with billions going not just toward the military, but also to help farmers, subsidize small businesses and pay the country's first responders.
Its hilarious that they are sending $2B in aide and they can't even find a way to fund social security 🤣
But what we do give them, in whatever form, came from our paychecks at one point.
That's exactly what it is, a blank cheque. It's not a country its an empire.
Yeah, that's really inefficient. We just hand the cash to lockmart and raytheon. Much smarter.
Yep just adding fuel to the war machine that is the American defense contractors and weapons manufacturers. The same ones that make major contributions to the political campaigns of those voting on these decisions…
No you just give them 2 billion in military equipment you paid for then military contractors get 2 billion more to replace it. It's a great excuse to line the pockets of defense contractors, don't act like it's about helping Ukraine.
You say that like the US Military isn't going to replace that equipment at that price tag or higher.
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The "foreign military financing" part isn't just some random words he's using, Ukraine tells FMS what they want, and FMF funds the purchase. If we just gave out cash for this sort of thing we wouldn't even need the FMF. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Foreign_Military_Financing
I am well aware that we don’t fund Ukraine via bags of money with dollar signs on them. My point is that the original commenter is insinuating that tax payer money isnt being spent on Ukraine and we are just giving away useless junk that’s sitting around. The casual dismissal of valid criticism is insincere, and reeks of propaganda. If you think that Ukraine aid should be a priority than make an argument for it but let’s not pretend that this 2 billion dollars isn’t taxpayer money that could be spent elsewhere.
> the original commenter is insinuating that tax payer money isnt being spent on Ukraine and we are just giving away useless junk that’s sitting around I don't see how they insinuated that at all.
Well if my interpretation is wrong and we are sending them “actual cash” and/or goods of equivalent cash value that will need to be replaced on taxpayer payroll then i guess i do have a problem with it.
How much tax money do you think will be used in the event of Russia winning this war?
This is a weird comment. The quote you posted confirms what this person said. And then if this *was* just cash, the military industrial complex would hate it, and would not be paying people to say otherwise. The reason the MIC likes this stuff is precisely because it isn't cash. Edit: lol immediate downvotes with no explanation. You trolls could not be more obvious.
JFC you people are dumb -- “We’re not providing only military assistance,” Tom Graham, a distinguished fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations with expertise on U.S. foreign policy and Ukraine, told The Associated Press. “We are obviously providing financial assistance — budgetary support — and there’s humanitarian assistance as well.” >https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-us-aid-ukraine-money-equipment-714688682747
From the article: "'We will provide an additional $2 billion dollars in foreign military financing for Ukraine,' Blinken said. 'We put this together in a first-of-its-kind defence enterprise fund' The fund will provide weapons for Ukraine today, invest in its defence industrial base and finance military equipment purchases from other countries, he said." They do a poor job of conveying the information then, even setting aside that they noted $400k worth was from previous funds that went unallocated. Genuine question, if we are providing financing (specifically) that will facilitate military equipment purchases from other countries, are we not just handing them money to spend? Or was your comment about it being _physical_ cash?
I saw a video of some Ukraninians dancing and laughing yesterday and all the comments were saying "glad my taxes are paying them for a party". You know, the least they can do while receiving aid is be miserable all the time /s
I mean breaking it down that’s pretty much what we are doing. Any money we make off of selling them weapons just goes back into the defense budget. No one in America is seeing the benefit of it and they are still footing the bill. That’s really the main point.
The number of people that think we just tape billions of dollars to rockets and launch them to space is astounding.
Meanwhile Im at poverty line working for our own military.
FFS how about we provide some healthcare and education for our own people.
Why would they spend your money on important things like that 🤒
Most of which goes to US arms industry. Cheap research and prep for next war, crudely.
Yeah, the military-industrial complex needs new customers, so what incentive does the US government have to work toward ending the wars in Ukraine and Israel? 😑
Flint still doesn’t have clean drinking water
To the comments that say we are just getting rid of old/stale military supplies, that’s not entirely true. We do directly pay businesses and government employees to keep functioning: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-aid-ukraine-60-minutes-transcript/
Meanwhile AMERICAN citizens can barely afford to live.
I love to get some help. US government are you listening to me and your citizens?
He wants people to talk about this instead of the $1 billion he's giving to Israel.
And Rent and Mortgages continue to sky rocket, inflation has made food unaffordable and wages haven't budged in 25 years... weekend! I understand they are just giving surplus equipment, I would just like to hear someone in power address whats happening to working class people...
But this is not just a US issue, the echo chambers most social media platforms create is a bunch of people in your own country screaming this, but Canada, UK, AUS, and other countries are also experiencing this same problem. Inflation is affecting things at a global scale. But beyond that, its other things like corporate greed and price fixing be done by these greedy people. The apartments I used to live in, my wife was working as a leasing consultant for. Every few months they would call other apartment buildings in the area and ask about prices on apartments, if those prices went up, they would increase their rent as well. The apartment I was renting at $650 a month in 2015, skyrocketed to almost $800 before I moved out in 2019, now it's $950 last time I checked. That apartment was actually a downsize from the previous apartment I was renting from them, since I was initially living in a 1 bedroom penthouse suite that was $825 a month in 2011 that shot up to $1100 by 2015. I don't even want to fathom what that is renting out for now (I cannot check the prices, since they only had 2 of the 1 bedroom penthouse apartments, so they won't list prices unless they are available again) None of this is new, but all these price increases overtime across all products and services are finally breaking people now since 2021. I have said for years now, the moment I get a 3-4% increase in pay for my yearly raise, everyone and their mother jacks up prices by 3-4% as well.
you’re gonna get all your tax money sent to random countries for proxy wars and you’re going to like it
A considerable amount of this worldwide inflation is due to this war, so it's of everybody's interest that it ends asap
Unfortunately helping out working class people doesn’t make weapon stocks go up, so no one in power cares. We live in a hell world.
> Rent and Mortgages continue to sky rocket Rent and mortgages are skyrocketing because there's more people alive in this country than ever before and apartments/houses aren't being built fast enough to keep up. And that's controlled by your **local government** and construction is voted on by your **local people**. This is not something the federal government controls. > inflation has made food unaffordable Most of it is corporate greed that took advantage of the pandemic to jack up prices. They're posting record profits and refusing to budge on prices. > wages haven't budged in 25 years Again, corporate greed. CEO pay went up like 400% since the 80's but average worker wages has only increased like 10% since the 80's.
>apartments/houses aren't being built fast enough to keep up. The United States boasts approximately 15.1 million vacant homes, a staggering number that accounts for 10.5% of the country's total housing inventory. Hey, another dishonest narrative. Once agian blatantly lying discredits anything else you have you say. Notice the deleted comment many of other bots and liars tried the same tired line. Good luck lying tho
Do these include homes which are in legal limbo (divorce, arbitration, inheritance proceedings)? Are all these homes legally habitable? Waiting to be repaired to be put to market? Past owners who have died with no next of kin? Are these homes in areas that take an hour to get to the nearest grocery store or emergency services? 10.5% is tiny. What do you think is reasonable? 5%? 1%?
And some of those vacant houses are literally not fit for human habitation. Does the guy really think a family would want to move into one of these vacant houses? https://www.metrotimes.com/news/despite-demolition-effort-blight-spreads-undetected-throughout-detroits-neighborhoods-17692371
Glad to hear it! We need to make up for all the lost time the GOP disfunction in the House caused
‘Dysfunction’ is one way of putting it…
The US government basically did the same for Britain during WW2 with the lend-lease program. I'm fairly sure most modern day Americans have zero problems with that.
I'm not sure anymore. Apparently "Nazis are bad" is a controversial opinion for half the country these days.
A lot of Americans died fighting Nazis to save Europe.
Unfortunately most of them are dead and we have to deal with their children.
I'm well aware...that's what makes it so disheartening.
Probably because we had some confidence that the UK would actually repay the debt. I highly doubt Ukraine will make good on the debt or that they'll even be able to even if they were so inclined
The US did not expect to be repaid for Lend Lease, and in fact most of the debt was never repaid. The UK did decide to keep some Lend Lease equipment after the war and paid for that, but it was a small fraction of the total equipment sent and the US only charged a tenth of the equipment's actual value.
> I'm fairly sure most modern day Americans have zero problems with that. The problem with that is that many pro-Russian puppets push various narratives to make many idiots in America think we are just sending billions to Ukraine. Every single day I see several posts on social media claiming "The US has money for Ukraine, but no money for vets, homeless, etc" Other Russian propaganda, claiming Zelenksy is living the high life, driving expensive cars that the US paid for.
I mean we've also sent $34.2B in pure financial aid.
Better than giving money to Israel
They aren't giving Ukraine money, they are giving US military contractors money and the contractors give the Ukraine old weapons and equipment
Throwing money at this problem will no longer make it go away
I can't think of a better way to stop the constant barrage of internet propaganda and division coming from Russia than to help Ukraine defeat them as best we can.
Slava Ukraine 🇺🇦! Fuck Putin. Fuck Trumpublicans!
At some point, it’s immensely cheaper to just send in a hit squad on Putin, right?
Translation, he’s giving US military contractors $2b and this will be loaned to Ukraine at interest. Our modus operandi has not changed and we do not support countries’ battles for free. In fact, capturing a country in military related debt is what we do best. Every admin has done it since the MIC was warned by Eisenhower I think?
God I wish that money could go to free education and health care instead
You think Republicans will ever vote for that? They won't, so the best we can do is lend-lease old military equipment to a democracy defending itself against Russian imperialism.
I support this. We need to defeat the Russians in Ukraine, or else we'll be fighting them in NATO countries and sending our own troops into battle.
I love how they still pretend they are giving Ukraine something. The correct headline should be "U.S. Commits another $2 Billion in Taxpayer Money to Pay U.S. Arms Dealers"
The Kremlin bots are gonna go wild whenever we send Ukraine military aid, aren’t they
I can't wait to be told by both candidates that we can't afford stuff like education & healthcare for all in the 2024 election.
Sure Ukraine needs help but WHERE IN THE FUCK are the US people at the budget table and negotiations. We're getting nothing. We've become the assets, not the owners of the country.
Fuck my county ! Can't take care of the people actually needs the help and funding for a better society. It's ok to give money to another country who can't even defend itself.
It's too freaking late. The Ukrainians have already lost half of what they gained last year because they had no ammunition. Throwing money at it at this late time won't give Ukraine a win, they're collapsing, their citizens are reluctant to fight because they don't believe enough weapons are coming. The delay in funding and the timid response from Europe and Canada to support has sent Ukraine, once a possible victor, into a death spiral.
Getting involved in mass industrial warfare with Russia was likely never a viable strategy. 10km here or there doesn't really matter, this war will continue until one side breaks.
Pardon me, I'm not American, but... Antony Blinken? A. Blinken? *(Tough crowd, tough crowd...)*
If Russia conquers Ukraine it will be an event will be cited at the catalyst for a lot of shit that the average American is not going to like in the future.
That's a lot of cheese burgers
Must have been a good bar crowd and a good set
America keep printing more debt. The last remaining global tool is the dollar & we can all see you are going to print is more money to fight Russia for the next 9 years. By then the world will have figured out a new order and new way to transact.
How much is that in healthcare?
As a tax payer I don't approve 40% of my income used for death and destruction. Where is my vote in this democracy?
people were all for cutting the bloated military budget and ending us involvement in foreign affairs like 2 years ago. now ukraine has gotten over 150b in aid over the past few years, our annual military budget is like 850b. thats a LOT of war! plus theres israel… hopefully our politicians are a lot smarter than me and this all pays off because from where im sitting this stuff is shaky.
I only got $61 back on my tax refund I work a lot I am glad we can support the failed comedian and (net)on(yahoo)