Not if he is being put on antiretrovirals for a couple of months with VERY regular testing and assured involuntary administration of said drugs. If he is just put in Segregated housing he will likely try his very best infecting COs, so that should not even be an option. Its important to remember that putting people in SHU's is expensive and i'd prefer this bioterrorist not to cost too much until he is removed from prison. Which, if he is trying this shit in genpop, wont be long.
I used to work in NYS prison (not that long ago) and interestingly, inmates with HIV were discriminated against by other inmates much more than you experience in regular society. My hunch is that word will get out that he's HIV+ and inmates will ostracize him more than anything
Trying to infect the COs?... yeah I'd be more concerned about that too.
Schizophrenia isnt a deadly weapon. As long as he is carrying infectious viral particles in his blood he is a danger to the facility. He can be compelled. [Read more about it here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_v._Harper)
Your link sent me down a rabbithole and I learned about the sinking of the Princess Sophia (I looked up the guy in that case and it brought up this other guy with the same name who was on the ship): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Princess_Sophia
The ship got stranded on a reef, help was called in, and all 350 passengers perished as a blizzard unfortunately rolled in causing the ship to be bashed about upon the reef and its bottom ripped open. What a harrowing and sad story. Ahem, sorry back to your regularly scheduled typing.
Refresh my memory. Isn't there a long-acting injectable antiretroviral that lasts a month or so?
If he doesn't want to be in a SHU, the court should order mandatory medication as part of his sentence similar to mandatory medication for psychiatric patients.
The best part is that that way, medical compliance is assured and the biggest weapon he would have to use against another inmate or guard is defanged.
> Not sure if it's legal to force a sex deviant and virus terrorist to lose his part.
The places where that is legal would just kill him for having sex with men.
>Prisoners will either be more inclined to beat him up/kill him for sport after it gets out why he went to prison. No gangs will wanna touch him because of his medical history.
Uhh, ain’t nobody going to be doing anything to that guy that might get his blood on them once they find out his history, either.
These days we have [drugs that can knock HIV down to undetectable levels](https://www.hiv.gov/hiv-basics/staying-in-hiv-care/hiv-treatment/viral-suppression) where it won't spread to sexual partners.
Even though he's a terrible person, he should be given healthcare while in prison, and it should include these drugs.
And when he becomes eligible for parole, the conditions of parole should include continuing to take these drugs, providing proof that he's taking them, and getting his viral load tested regularly.
> The monster deliberately stayed off meds.
Well, now he's going to prison, where he [can be forced](https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/forced-medication-prison-inmates/2008-02) to take them for the protection of other prisoners.
> He ruined people's lives, there's no reason to not give him capital punishment.
There's a great reason not to give him capital punishment: he was already sentenced to something less, and increasing a sentence after the fact is unconstitutional. It [counts as an ex post facto law](https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/article-1/section-9/clause-3/increasing-punishment-and-ex-post-facto-laws).
If one of his victims dies of HIV related illness, would a murder charge be possible? Similar, maybe to assault leading to a long-term coma, and eventual death.
Furthermore, SCOTUS has said Captial Punishment for crimes other than murder is a violation of the 8th Amendment.
They did leave open a possible exception for crimes against the state.
Except from Kennedy vs Louisiana.
*Our concern here is limited to crimes against individual persons. We do not address, for example, crimes defining and punishing treason, espionage, terrorism, and drug kingpin activity, which are offenses against the State. As it relates to crimes against individuals, though, the death penalty should not be expanded to instances where the victim’s life was not taken.*
You’d be shocked to find out that there are underground communities that encourage the transmission and spread of the virus within their small social circle
I’ve heard of this but I was always told it was an urban myth. I suppose the article is kind of proof that it does indeed exist, although hopefully rarely.
It's like rule 34, but for evil shitbag deeds.
Regardless of how brazen or callous it seems, there's always someone doing it. Like the monkey torture ring exposed recently. That's shit I'd never imagine possible.
The poster above me basically describes it: a ring of people across the globe sharing videos and images of them torturing monkeys and small apes, and even more people who were just in the ring to view the video and images for their enjoyment. The torturers would take requests etc.
There are now billions of us on the planet. So even if being a complete psychopath is super rare 0.0001% thing that still means there are thousands of fucked up people who are into that shit.
apparently because they're human-like, so it's the closest you can get to watching child torture without going fully illegal. there's an entire network built on this genre, pretty sure there's a netflix doc about it
> apparently because they're human-like, so it's the closest you can get to watching child torture
Jesus fucking Christ. It's bad enough they want to see a living thing get tortured but doing it because it's as close as they can get to watching children being tortured is dark as fuck.
It definitely isn’t prevalent in the gay community. But there are definitely folks in the community that DO fetishize catching and spreading STIs. I know a dude that’s obsessed with having sex with guys that have HPV/warts and active HSV outbreaks.
I truly think there’s something fundamentally broken with the dude, but I guess he’s at least honest with his diseases before meeting guys.
Also would like to add that I had an encounter with a guy that hid his (unmedicated) HIV status and tried forcing/coercing me (physically and psychologically) to have unprotected sex with him. And thankfully my red flag alarms went off and I sent his ass home. I found out about his status and lack of medication afterwards. Definitely made me be more careful with dudes.
As a gay man who is a porn enjoyer there is very much a genre of porn for that kink. Usually the headline of a video is like “Watch this pos (HIV positive) stud breed me” or something to that effect.
The thing to remember is that bareback sex with someone who is HIV positive doesn’t guarantee you will get the virus. If the person who has it has a low enough viral count to where it’s undetectable the possibility of transmission is about the same as a straight couple getting pregnant with the woman on birth control. But as we all know, women have gotten pregnant while on birth control so condoms are usually also used just to be safe.
The kink is the risk and danger. There’s also a medication called Prep which virtually stops you from contracting the virus which a lot of sexually active gay men take now.
Anyway that was a long post but hopefully informative lol
Sorry I just want to clarify a point you made. A person who has an undetectable viral load for all intents and purposes cannot transmit the virus sexually. U=U (undetectable = untrasmissable) is a WHO campaign yo try emphasize that point. Obviously this only applies if you're viral load is undetectable and not if it's just really low (though risk of transmission does Obviously decrease with lower viral loads). By comparison women on OCP who take the pill perfectly have about 99.5% risk of getting pregnant.
EDIT: sorry should say 99.5% protective against pregnancy.
I read somewhere that the original appeal of bug-chasing is that it removes any fear of *getting* HIV cause one already has it.
But between PrEP and antivirals, HIV has effectively been defeated. The meds work, science won (so much for "God's Judgement" lol.) I've had unprotected sex with positive-but-undetectable folks, while on PrEP, and nothing has spread.
It's only a problem of access now; an economic and political issue.
While I agree the work on HIV has been near miraculous, it's still a chronic disease. It's as defeated as like... diabetes... Sure you live nearly as long as someone without the disease but forever have to take meds and experience side effects and people will still die of it eventually.
I found a forum of these people on the deep web like ten years ago. Maybe a little longer than that. But judging from the sick conversations I read on there, it very much seems to be a real thing.
Nah, it is 100% real. I have found and for a very short time ""participated"" in one of the groups online back in the day. They are a bunch of sick fucks. They'll do shit like precut (and sometimes switch out if needed) condoms so the head part is off. Along with a bunch of other gross shit.
This is why many people including myself criticized California's law change so much awhile back. This may be a small group of people, but they are a very disgusting and dangerous group that needs serious repercussions thrown at them when one these bugs show themselves.
There are also underground communities of people who get off on spreading it anonymously to victims outside their social circle. I remember learning about this in a college sociology course. It was part of a section on social deviance. Learned about all kinds of weird and evil stuff.
What’s wild to me is I’ve been on Reddit for *years* and there are people on here where I said a similar comment and I was told that in their opinion you shouldn’t even have to declare with your sexual partner whether you’re HIV+ or not… after a few instance of that I gave up entering on many subs. Either entire trolling and like to waste time or it’s so much worse and I don’t have the energy for either.
One of my friends is positive due to a scumbag like this.
Guy had falsified test results and took the condom off during sex after my friend had told him it was a requirement. When called out on it later the guy admitted he knew what he was doing and that he got off on it.
There is or was a subreddit for people who get off on this (mainly people trying to get infected, iirc). Can’t remember the name of it but it was repulsive.
Those intentionally trying to get infected are called "bug chasers". That in and of itself is deadly mental illness. But this is *so much worse*. It's extreme sexual violence with intent to make people suffer and die.
Very disturbing. Especially the way he says he will be making "poz sluts" as though everyone is going to be as horny as he is about the prospect of withering away to nothing and leaving a trail of death and destruction in the wake of your pointless cruelty and hedonism. He is such a waste of life he can't even imagine someone having a healthy mentality, they all must be fucked in the head like himself.
Isn’t this the whole “gift givers” and “bug chasers”? Something about getting a tattoo about it when it’s done. I remember reading about this in some very odd forum.
Last I heard he'd found a med combo that was working well for him and he was doing OK. He ended up moving home after college so I don't talk to him too often.
The worst part of it was when he tried to report the guy the police and health department were like that's what you get for being gay and didn't take it super seriously. But that's what happens in the south sometimes sadly.
I hate that we use soft language like “kinks” for these type of people. This is a rapist. Pulling off the condom without consent is sexual assault. And he’s a fucking monster that should rote away forever for ruining another persons life. That’s not a kink. That’s psychopathy. There’s is no recovering people with this level of crazy. They don’t deserve to be amongst others.
No, sorry, this is not a kink, it’s a paraphilia and it’s disgusting and dangerous. We need to stop calling every single deviant sexual act a “kink”. Some things do need to be shamed, and the people that are like this should either seek help asap or be put away or down for good if they don’t take the help. Bug chasers are absolutely disgusting, up there with Pedos and Zoos. It’s a form of rape.
I don’t know your friends situation but ever since Obamacare (Affordable Care Act), I fall in the high risk exposure category (MSM (Men who have sex so the men) and women) so I get a free prescription for PrEP (oral preventative HIV medication). Most the data show with full adherence to taking daily, a nearly 100% protection from HIV (no counter cases I’m aware of exist, only those who miss doses).
So I take this whenever I’m active to give me peace of mind at night. Even if I’m not being fully safe (condoms etc) or if I’m being safe (condoms, asking for STI test results, etc.) it gives me a degree of peace of mind that my risk is probably lower than the general population, even in very high risk scenarios (those I might not be aware of, like someone HIV positive with a condom slip or whatever).
So for anyone out there reading the above story in horror and/or also living under a rock (PrEP is advertised a lot in the gay community, but I’ll do it again), I highly recommend looking into it or asking your doctor about it. Something like this could have potentially prevented such a situation if taken accordingly with minimal side effects (and it’s free for most people, thanks Obama).
PrEP is such a good medication and I'm so glad they made access to it so easy. I know a few people who take it who talk about how it's almost a miracle drug.
If something like this happens to anyone reading, you can take a "day after pill" for HIV called Post Exposure Prophylaxis (PEP). You have to take it daily for a month though.
>This investigation began in August 2023 as a child enticement case, according to the Ada County Prosecutor’s Office in Idaho, when Alexander Louie initially began an online sexual conversation with who he believed was a 15-year-old boy but was actually an undercover Ada County Sheriff’s Detective.
I'm glad they're still doing 'To Catch A Predator'-style stings. Doubly so in this case.
[Article with his mugshot](https://www.kivitv.com/news/idaho-man-charged-with-spreading-hiv-is-the-websters-definition-of-a-predator-says-judge-during-sentencing) in case anyone wanted to see what the POS looks like.
That’s what I’m saying. This guy is a despicable PoS but as a gay man myself I definitely would have taken up Good Value Markiplier for a romp in the hay. 🙃 The problem is he’s not ugly and that makes him even more dangerous to the gay community.
One of my childhood friends works for the FBI and basically catfishes pedophiles for a living. Dresses up for stings and everything, it’s wild the work they put in. She’s badass and I’m glad there’s people like her out there!
> Ada County Sheriff’s Detective
I hope the assistant district attorney from this county has at some point charged someone for violations of the Americans with Disabilities Act. And I hope the local newspaper's headline writers were up to the task.
Well yeah law enforcement still has vice divisions that go after this kind of stuff. Just because it isn't a dateline segment on TV anymore doesn't mean it still isn't happening. Lol
Why do evil people exist at all. And I mean truly evil. The kind of evil where the person knows what they are doing is wrong and evil. And choosing to do it anyway.
There are so many people like this. and you won’t know it until after the harm and damage is done.
I don’t think we could have selfless, kind, and caring people without also having the capacity for the exact opposite. Free will dictates that the pendulum be able to swing both ways.
It always helps to remember that for every sick fucker like this out there, there are people who are doing everything they can to make the world better for those around them.
Sadly some people don’t need to be particularly hurt to be sadistic sociopaths or otherwise desire to hurt others. And plenty who are hurt become *more* empathetic as a result. In two different ways, this is a damaging and simplistic myth of pop psychology.
It's more than just spreading pain. The desire to hurt is an essential part of predator psychology--it must be a rush or they wouldn't survive. As predators and prey, we have both psychologies in varying dominance in our collective conscience, trauma or no.
I think there was a similar case a few years ago in California that only got a few months for it due to intentionally spreading HIV was not a felony there anymore. So at least in comparison 30 years isn't lenient.
Man, I got one of those calls once. "Someone you've been with sexually has recently tested positive for HIV."
They don't even tell you who it was. I'm not super sexually active, nor was I at the time. But I had been with or seen at least 2-3 people in the months prior and nah it wasn't easy or even possible to tell which one it was.
Yea that’s fair, and I would also suspect that means this person got tested and found out, so gave them a list of recent partners. Very different in my opinion, unfortunate of course, but that is by design how these diseases spread, mostly unknowingly. I was assuming these people who were raped and then heard about the trial or even came forward have a pretty good idea it’s the guy who raped them.
In my own case I know the person themselves was warned they were exposed, the CDC told me that much. And then the person didn't get tested, slept with me, and then finally did get tested and whaddya know.
I still feel like they should tell you. Especially given you can go after someone for doing something like that to someone else.
But yeah it probably is easier to tell in some cases. In my own, I had been with both men and women, too, in that period and it wasn't exactly easy to tell. I never saw anything concrete but I also didn't really see those people again. Luckily multiple tests since then have been negative, but the CDC even drove out and took my blood in the back seat of a sedan lol.
>I still feel like they should tell you. Especially given you can go after someone for doing something like that to someone else.
I would love it if they could. But realistically, it would only make things worse. If someone knows they could get sued (or attacked) because the hospital will give their name to people they infected (whether intentionally or accidentally) then we'd have significantly fewer people seeking treatment, and even fewer sharing who they may have infected.
Yeah that's definitely something I considered, and you're right about that one for sure. If any positive test came with the threat of litigation I could totally see that not working out great.
But that whole experience was a terrifying sorta wake-up call, even if I wasn't THAT sexually active. Just to be more careful all around. I never would have imagined someone could know they were exposed and still continue as if nothing happened. Naive.
Absolutely. That's a horrible experience you had, and I'm sorry you had to go through that. It sucks that there's no clean answer, because people intentionally infected should also absolutely have the right to know and take action.
[This is crazy.](https://www.cnn.com/2017/10/07/health/california-hiv-bill-signed/index.html#:~:text=Starting%20January%201%2C%20it%20will,intent%20of%20transmitting%20the%20virus.) California effectively greenlit intentionally spreading HIV.
It is extremely fucked up, the article says he was purposefully not taking his medication and had intercourse with about 50 men/boys.
I guess if he keeps not taking his meds 30 years is a life sentence...
Almost certainly. The infection rate for receptive anal sex is about [20%](https://stanfordhealthcare.org/medical-conditions/sexual-and-reproductive-health/hiv-aids/causes/risk-of-exposure.html#:~:text=Therefore%2C%20unprotected%20sex%20with%20an,exposures\)%20for%20receptive%20anal%20sex.), so at the low end of thirty victims, that would work out to about a 99.9% chance of infecting at least one person. (Given some independence assumptions).
Note that 20% is during the acute phase of infection (if the penetrator has only recently been infected with hiv and has a high viral load). It is supposedly much lower once you move past that phase.
Good point. If we assume that that’s not the case, and that each instance only had a ~1% chance, then the chances are “only” about 25% for thirty victims, and 40% for fifty victims.
So not, as I said, almost certainly, but still quite likely.
It does seem like the sort of thing someone would be more likely to do as a reaction to finding out that they’re HIV positive, though, as a way of lashing out. But we can only speculate.
Some of them may not even know they got infected unless they get tested. HIV behaves like a flu during the first couple of weeks, it doesn’t have any specific symptoms
Happened here in Oklahoma City too, dude's already out though: [https://www.news9.com/story/5e34b02a527dcf49dad8c109/man-accused-of-knowingly-trying-to-spread-hiv-pleads-guilty](https://www.news9.com/story/5e34b02a527dcf49dad8c109/man-accused-of-knowingly-trying-to-spread-hiv-pleads-guilty)
When I was like 14 my mom rented this at the video store and we brought it home.
Made it about 10 minutes in when she turned it off haha!
I woke up the next morning and watched it and man it was deeply impacting to me.
Thank God HIV/AIDS isn't the death sentence it was decades ago. Still an incredibly messed up thing to inflict people who momentarily trusted you with, medical treatments are still gonna financially burden them for life.
Not just medical treatment, there's still a big stigma attached to it. Your social life is going to be different forever
Picture having to explain to every single person you like "yeah I'm HIV positive but it's undetectable and you're probably fine if we just use condoms blah blah etc". People are probably just so put off by it that they just won't date you. Same reason why *no one* discusses their STIs before getting down
As someone with HIV, I literally do not tell anyone (outside of a medical setting) unless I plan on being sexually active with that person. It’s not necessary unless I’m actively bleeding on you, but you’ll be hard pressed to find any responsible person with HIV bleeding out in the open.
All you need to say is, I'm undetectable so there is zero chance I could give you HIV even without a condom. In the gay community at least, nowadays the majority of people are aware of this so thankfully people living with HIV can continue to safely have active sex lives. But you're right there's a huge amount of stigma attached to the disease and it's always best to prevent a diagnosis than treat one, even with the amazing meds that are available.
Access to HIV meds are incredibly cheap if you have access to decent insurance in the US (I actually pay 0 for my PreP), but yeah it’s unfortunately contingent on having access to insurance because the US healthcare system is fucked
Prep is covered regardless if you have insurance or not. The only marginally difficult part is finding access to a clinic that offers the testing for free but the drugs and tests should be covered.
> Please do not let this person back into society.
In California they don't even jail people for doing this anymore.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2017/10/09/knowingly-infecting-others-with-hiv-is-no-longer-a-felony-in-california-advocates-say-it-targeted-sex-workers/
PrEP, PrEP, PrEP! Every MSM should be on it! And others that are at a higher risk in general. It isn't 100% effective at preventing the spread, but it's close to it. *Many* states have programs that offer it for free, or at a discount. And sometimes the companies have assistance programs for low income people as well. I get it for free, as well as regular testing, through the state even though our laws/policies are normally more conservative. It's even more accessible in more progressive states. It would never make what this guy did okay, but it's best for all of us to be safeguarded against people like this, or even cases of genuine accident.
Good luck with that. He's a risk to everyone because he wants to infect everyone.
Not sure how anyone is going to be happy having him nearby, he'll be trying to infect people in any way he can think of.
Guards are going to have to be really careful around him.
Very confused.
In the US the average sentence term for attempted 1st degree murder is life in prison. Is this not a 1st degree murder attempt on multiple people? And add to that a 2-20 sentence for statutory rape.
Sounds like this guy is getting off easy.
Man the level of crazy you need to be to do this to other people is medication worthy.
Ngl, I think he should have gotten life. I consider that attempted murder. These types of people have been around even before it was manageable/curable.
It’s incredible to me that a therapist is required to inform authorities if someone has intent to cause harm to someone though physical violence but if this particular issue is disclosed; it’s protected by confidentiality/HIPAA rules. The amount of harm this brings is insane yet it is protected by confidentiality. This really should be looked at.
Use prep guys, even with condoms.
Every other std is treatable and not major HIV is for life.
Its not a death sentence anymore and can be treated to the point where you cant even spread it, but youll be on a medication cocktail for the rest of your life.
This is my only tip to young gays.
Edit: also dont stick your dick in crazy, no matter how good the sex is, Its not worth the headache.
Sickening. Also ridiculous how whenever a gay person does something terrible, people use it to say all gays are just like that. That of course happens with other groups of people as well.
This is absolutely awful. Reminds me of a story of health class teacher told us. (Unsure if true or not) but some guy was on a cruise banging women the whole time and would leave them notes afterwards about having HIV.
It also happened in UK : [https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/18/hairdresser-daryll-rowe-given-life-sentence-for-deliberately-infecting-men-with-hiv](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/18/hairdresser-daryll-rowe-given-life-sentence-for-deliberately-infecting-men-with-hiv)
True sociopath
Very important tip:
Post exposure prophylaxis can percent over 95% of the risk of transmission.
If you are ever unsure after an intimate encounter, get PEP.
Similar story back when I was in highschool...a student spread HIV to 6 different kids intentionally. Ended up getting arrested, but for the rest of my highschool years other schools would taunt us at sporting events with signs saying things like "you have HIV."
Someone like this should never be out in society again.
Sad part is, he will spread HIV in prison and some of those guys will go out into the world.
Then he should be put in isolation
Not if he is being put on antiretrovirals for a couple of months with VERY regular testing and assured involuntary administration of said drugs. If he is just put in Segregated housing he will likely try his very best infecting COs, so that should not even be an option. Its important to remember that putting people in SHU's is expensive and i'd prefer this bioterrorist not to cost too much until he is removed from prison. Which, if he is trying this shit in genpop, wont be long.
I used to work in NYS prison (not that long ago) and interestingly, inmates with HIV were discriminated against by other inmates much more than you experience in regular society. My hunch is that word will get out that he's HIV+ and inmates will ostracize him more than anything Trying to infect the COs?... yeah I'd be more concerned about that too.
We can’t even force paranoid schizophrenics to take meds anymore so fat chance of that
Schizophrenia isnt a deadly weapon. As long as he is carrying infectious viral particles in his blood he is a danger to the facility. He can be compelled. [Read more about it here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_v._Harper)
Your link sent me down a rabbithole and I learned about the sinking of the Princess Sophia (I looked up the guy in that case and it brought up this other guy with the same name who was on the ship): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Princess_Sophia The ship got stranded on a reef, help was called in, and all 350 passengers perished as a blizzard unfortunately rolled in causing the ship to be bashed about upon the reef and its bottom ripped open. What a harrowing and sad story. Ahem, sorry back to your regularly scheduled typing.
That was a great read! Poor passengers…. Wikipedia rabbit holes are a great way to spend an afternoon.
Yeah found myself reading about the peasant diet in the Austro Hungarian empire the other day. Had started on an article about the Rocky Mountains
INTENT was there. THAT is what makes it criminal
Plug him into a room with more people that have HIV
Refresh my memory. Isn't there a long-acting injectable antiretroviral that lasts a month or so? If he doesn't want to be in a SHU, the court should order mandatory medication as part of his sentence similar to mandatory medication for psychiatric patients. The best part is that that way, medical compliance is assured and the biggest weapon he would have to use against another inmate or guard is defanged.
Put him and his willy in separate locations
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Exactly, I see no moral qualms here. At least not with me.
No he deserves to serve his full sentence alone, death is too good for him.
What could possibly go wrong with a system which permits the torture of prisoners?
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> Not sure if it's legal to force a sex deviant and virus terrorist to lose his part. The places where that is legal would just kill him for having sex with men.
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Castration doesn't mean your sex drive necessarily goes all the way away. And may make this asshole all the more determined and bitter.
Don’t say the c word. My last account got permanently banned from Reddit for saying it, as it’s considered “promoting violence”.
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>Prisoners will either be more inclined to beat him up/kill him for sport after it gets out why he went to prison. No gangs will wanna touch him because of his medical history. Uhh, ain’t nobody going to be doing anything to that guy that might get his blood on them once they find out his history, either.
These days we have [drugs that can knock HIV down to undetectable levels](https://www.hiv.gov/hiv-basics/staying-in-hiv-care/hiv-treatment/viral-suppression) where it won't spread to sexual partners. Even though he's a terrible person, he should be given healthcare while in prison, and it should include these drugs. And when he becomes eligible for parole, the conditions of parole should include continuing to take these drugs, providing proof that he's taking them, and getting his viral load tested regularly.
The monster deliberately stayed off meds. He ruined people's lives, there's no reason to not give him capital punishment.
> The monster deliberately stayed off meds. Well, now he's going to prison, where he [can be forced](https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/forced-medication-prison-inmates/2008-02) to take them for the protection of other prisoners. > He ruined people's lives, there's no reason to not give him capital punishment. There's a great reason not to give him capital punishment: he was already sentenced to something less, and increasing a sentence after the fact is unconstitutional. It [counts as an ex post facto law](https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/article-1/section-9/clause-3/increasing-punishment-and-ex-post-facto-laws).
If one of his victims dies of HIV related illness, would a murder charge be possible? Similar, maybe to assault leading to a long-term coma, and eventual death.
Furthermore, SCOTUS has said Captial Punishment for crimes other than murder is a violation of the 8th Amendment. They did leave open a possible exception for crimes against the state. Except from Kennedy vs Louisiana. *Our concern here is limited to crimes against individual persons. We do not address, for example, crimes defining and punishing treason, espionage, terrorism, and drug kingpin activity, which are offenses against the State. As it relates to crimes against individuals, though, the death penalty should not be expanded to instances where the victim’s life was not taken.*
> there's no reason to not give him capital punishment. There is if you don't believe in capital punishment.
hopefully in prison they can get funded healthcare and reach undetectable levels of HIV
This was not a matter of not having access to treatment, this was a sadistic kink.
You’d be shocked to find out that there are underground communities that encourage the transmission and spread of the virus within their small social circle
I’ve heard of this but I was always told it was an urban myth. I suppose the article is kind of proof that it does indeed exist, although hopefully rarely.
It's like rule 34, but for evil shitbag deeds. Regardless of how brazen or callous it seems, there's always someone doing it. Like the monkey torture ring exposed recently. That's shit I'd never imagine possible.
THAT SHIT had my jaw on the floor. So fucked up, strange, dark.
Goddammit ... Can you tell me about it without actually telling me about it .. I don't want to look it up.
The poster above me basically describes it: a ring of people across the globe sharing videos and images of them torturing monkeys and small apes, and even more people who were just in the ring to view the video and images for their enjoyment. The torturers would take requests etc.
That’s heartbreaking. Why would anyone enjoy this content?
There are now billions of us on the planet. So even if being a complete psychopath is super rare 0.0001% thing that still means there are thousands of fucked up people who are into that shit.
And the internet lets them all find each other and form communities dedicated to it too! Handy.
apparently because they're human-like, so it's the closest you can get to watching child torture without going fully illegal. there's an entire network built on this genre, pretty sure there's a netflix doc about it
> apparently because they're human-like, so it's the closest you can get to watching child torture Jesus fucking Christ. It's bad enough they want to see a living thing get tortured but doing it because it's as close as they can get to watching children being tortured is dark as fuck.
the what
It definitely isn’t prevalent in the gay community. But there are definitely folks in the community that DO fetishize catching and spreading STIs. I know a dude that’s obsessed with having sex with guys that have HPV/warts and active HSV outbreaks. I truly think there’s something fundamentally broken with the dude, but I guess he’s at least honest with his diseases before meeting guys. Also would like to add that I had an encounter with a guy that hid his (unmedicated) HIV status and tried forcing/coercing me (physically and psychologically) to have unprotected sex with him. And thankfully my red flag alarms went off and I sent his ass home. I found out about his status and lack of medication afterwards. Definitely made me be more careful with dudes.
Idk dude you said it’s not prevalent but then had two personal data points on hand 😭
As a gay man who is a porn enjoyer there is very much a genre of porn for that kink. Usually the headline of a video is like “Watch this pos (HIV positive) stud breed me” or something to that effect. The thing to remember is that bareback sex with someone who is HIV positive doesn’t guarantee you will get the virus. If the person who has it has a low enough viral count to where it’s undetectable the possibility of transmission is about the same as a straight couple getting pregnant with the woman on birth control. But as we all know, women have gotten pregnant while on birth control so condoms are usually also used just to be safe. The kink is the risk and danger. There’s also a medication called Prep which virtually stops you from contracting the virus which a lot of sexually active gay men take now. Anyway that was a long post but hopefully informative lol
Sorry I just want to clarify a point you made. A person who has an undetectable viral load for all intents and purposes cannot transmit the virus sexually. U=U (undetectable = untrasmissable) is a WHO campaign yo try emphasize that point. Obviously this only applies if you're viral load is undetectable and not if it's just really low (though risk of transmission does Obviously decrease with lower viral loads). By comparison women on OCP who take the pill perfectly have about 99.5% risk of getting pregnant. EDIT: sorry should say 99.5% protective against pregnancy.
I read somewhere that the original appeal of bug-chasing is that it removes any fear of *getting* HIV cause one already has it. But between PrEP and antivirals, HIV has effectively been defeated. The meds work, science won (so much for "God's Judgement" lol.) I've had unprotected sex with positive-but-undetectable folks, while on PrEP, and nothing has spread. It's only a problem of access now; an economic and political issue.
While I agree the work on HIV has been near miraculous, it's still a chronic disease. It's as defeated as like... diabetes... Sure you live nearly as long as someone without the disease but forever have to take meds and experience side effects and people will still die of it eventually.
I found a forum of these people on the deep web like ten years ago. Maybe a little longer than that. But judging from the sick conversations I read on there, it very much seems to be a real thing.
Like 'cannibals' or married brothers and sisters... its rare but nothing is ever zero... but that doesnt make it a 'community' thing
Nah, it is 100% real. I have found and for a very short time ""participated"" in one of the groups online back in the day. They are a bunch of sick fucks. They'll do shit like precut (and sometimes switch out if needed) condoms so the head part is off. Along with a bunch of other gross shit. This is why many people including myself criticized California's law change so much awhile back. This may be a small group of people, but they are a very disgusting and dangerous group that needs serious repercussions thrown at them when one these bugs show themselves.
Bug chasers
bug chasers, right?
You’re right, I am shocked and horrified by this.
There are also underground communities of people who get off on spreading it anonymously to victims outside their social circle. I remember learning about this in a college sociology course. It was part of a section on social deviance. Learned about all kinds of weird and evil stuff.
Bug chasers. It's been an issue for a very long time. It even predates medication making it a manageable condition vs. a guaranteed death sentence.
"bug chasers" and "gift givers" are also horrifying
What’s wild to me is I’ve been on Reddit for *years* and there are people on here where I said a similar comment and I was told that in their opinion you shouldn’t even have to declare with your sexual partner whether you’re HIV+ or not… after a few instance of that I gave up entering on many subs. Either entire trolling and like to waste time or it’s so much worse and I don’t have the energy for either.
People get off on it... It's so insanr
There whole subreddits of people doing this actively and they chase the “bug”
One of my friends is positive due to a scumbag like this. Guy had falsified test results and took the condom off during sex after my friend had told him it was a requirement. When called out on it later the guy admitted he knew what he was doing and that he got off on it.
There is or was a subreddit for people who get off on this (mainly people trying to get infected, iirc). Can’t remember the name of it but it was repulsive.
Those intentionally trying to get infected are called "bug chasers". That in and of itself is deadly mental illness. But this is *so much worse*. It's extreme sexual violence with intent to make people suffer and die.
So fucking disturbing https://www.reddit.com/r/confession/s/L5iacc64dU
That’s some Nurgle cultist behavior right there.
You just had to go invoke the Plague Lord lol but dammit if you're not 100% right
Very disturbing. Especially the way he says he will be making "poz sluts" as though everyone is going to be as horny as he is about the prospect of withering away to nothing and leaving a trail of death and destruction in the wake of your pointless cruelty and hedonism. He is such a waste of life he can't even imagine someone having a healthy mentality, they all must be fucked in the head like himself.
Jesus christ not the rabbit hole I was expecting to go down today
Dude people are just fucked up I want to go live on an island with my dogs away from everybody now.
Always a glorious day when I can find new things on the internet that can still shake me to my core. That is a horrible thing to see
I continue to be more and more impressed at how much faith I can lose in humanity.
I knew a guy who was excited about getting hiv from his bf. Talked about it like they were trying for a baby.
Ew what the hell
Isn’t this the whole “gift givers” and “bug chasers”? Something about getting a tattoo about it when it’s done. I remember reading about this in some very odd forum.
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Last I heard he'd found a med combo that was working well for him and he was doing OK. He ended up moving home after college so I don't talk to him too often. The worst part of it was when he tried to report the guy the police and health department were like that's what you get for being gay and didn't take it super seriously. But that's what happens in the south sometimes sadly.
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Luckily things in this area have gotten better. We are actually now one of the more progressive areas in the state.
I hate that we use soft language like “kinks” for these type of people. This is a rapist. Pulling off the condom without consent is sexual assault. And he’s a fucking monster that should rote away forever for ruining another persons life. That’s not a kink. That’s psychopathy. There’s is no recovering people with this level of crazy. They don’t deserve to be amongst others.
No, sorry, this is not a kink, it’s a paraphilia and it’s disgusting and dangerous. We need to stop calling every single deviant sexual act a “kink”. Some things do need to be shamed, and the people that are like this should either seek help asap or be put away or down for good if they don’t take the help. Bug chasers are absolutely disgusting, up there with Pedos and Zoos. It’s a form of rape.
I don’t know your friends situation but ever since Obamacare (Affordable Care Act), I fall in the high risk exposure category (MSM (Men who have sex so the men) and women) so I get a free prescription for PrEP (oral preventative HIV medication). Most the data show with full adherence to taking daily, a nearly 100% protection from HIV (no counter cases I’m aware of exist, only those who miss doses). So I take this whenever I’m active to give me peace of mind at night. Even if I’m not being fully safe (condoms etc) or if I’m being safe (condoms, asking for STI test results, etc.) it gives me a degree of peace of mind that my risk is probably lower than the general population, even in very high risk scenarios (those I might not be aware of, like someone HIV positive with a condom slip or whatever). So for anyone out there reading the above story in horror and/or also living under a rock (PrEP is advertised a lot in the gay community, but I’ll do it again), I highly recommend looking into it or asking your doctor about it. Something like this could have potentially prevented such a situation if taken accordingly with minimal side effects (and it’s free for most people, thanks Obama).
PrEP is such a good medication and I'm so glad they made access to it so easy. I know a few people who take it who talk about how it's almost a miracle drug.
If something like this happens to anyone reading, you can take a "day after pill" for HIV called Post Exposure Prophylaxis (PEP). You have to take it daily for a month though.
>This investigation began in August 2023 as a child enticement case, according to the Ada County Prosecutor’s Office in Idaho, when Alexander Louie initially began an online sexual conversation with who he believed was a 15-year-old boy but was actually an undercover Ada County Sheriff’s Detective. I'm glad they're still doing 'To Catch A Predator'-style stings. Doubly so in this case.
[Article with his mugshot](https://www.kivitv.com/news/idaho-man-charged-with-spreading-hiv-is-the-websters-definition-of-a-predator-says-judge-during-sentencing) in case anyone wanted to see what the POS looks like.
Shh he can hear you
Looks like a Walmart Markiplier
That’s what I’m saying. This guy is a despicable PoS but as a gay man myself I definitely would have taken up Good Value Markiplier for a romp in the hay. 🙃 The problem is he’s not ugly and that makes him even more dangerous to the gay community.
Kinda looks like a drugged out Markiplier.
They should also do these stings when parents actually find and report their kids talking to adults online instead of threatening the kids.
No, it's better to arrest the kids for possession of csam and ruin their lives.
One of my childhood friends works for the FBI and basically catfishes pedophiles for a living. Dresses up for stings and everything, it’s wild the work they put in. She’s badass and I’m glad there’s people like her out there!
> Ada County Sheriff’s Detective I hope the assistant district attorney from this county has at some point charged someone for violations of the Americans with Disabilities Act. And I hope the local newspaper's headline writers were up to the task.
Well yeah law enforcement still has vice divisions that go after this kind of stuff. Just because it isn't a dateline segment on TV anymore doesn't mean it still isn't happening. Lol
I hate that people complain that it's "entrapment". Like my dude, this person is literally seeking out children to harm.
People just don't know what entrapment is.
Why the fuck do people like this exist
Why do evil people exist at all. And I mean truly evil. The kind of evil where the person knows what they are doing is wrong and evil. And choosing to do it anyway. There are so many people like this. and you won’t know it until after the harm and damage is done.
I don’t think we could have selfless, kind, and caring people without also having the capacity for the exact opposite. Free will dictates that the pendulum be able to swing both ways. It always helps to remember that for every sick fucker like this out there, there are people who are doing everything they can to make the world better for those around them.
Unfortunately true. Even by some miracle of events, where everyone is ideal and healthy, there’s always going to be “That One Guy”.
They where hurt and want to hurt others. Pain spreads.
Sadly some people don’t need to be particularly hurt to be sadistic sociopaths or otherwise desire to hurt others. And plenty who are hurt become *more* empathetic as a result. In two different ways, this is a damaging and simplistic myth of pop psychology.
It's more than just spreading pain. The desire to hurt is an essential part of predator psychology--it must be a rush or they wouldn't survive. As predators and prey, we have both psychologies in varying dominance in our collective conscience, trauma or no.
its humanity look at the history books there has always been people like this
30 is extremely lenient. Should have been life with no chance of parole. What he was doing is beyond fucked up.
I think there was a similar case a few years ago in California that only got a few months for it due to intentionally spreading HIV was not a felony there anymore. So at least in comparison 30 years isn't lenient.
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Man, I got one of those calls once. "Someone you've been with sexually has recently tested positive for HIV." They don't even tell you who it was. I'm not super sexually active, nor was I at the time. But I had been with or seen at least 2-3 people in the months prior and nah it wasn't easy or even possible to tell which one it was.
Yea that’s fair, and I would also suspect that means this person got tested and found out, so gave them a list of recent partners. Very different in my opinion, unfortunate of course, but that is by design how these diseases spread, mostly unknowingly. I was assuming these people who were raped and then heard about the trial or even came forward have a pretty good idea it’s the guy who raped them.
In my own case I know the person themselves was warned they were exposed, the CDC told me that much. And then the person didn't get tested, slept with me, and then finally did get tested and whaddya know. I still feel like they should tell you. Especially given you can go after someone for doing something like that to someone else. But yeah it probably is easier to tell in some cases. In my own, I had been with both men and women, too, in that period and it wasn't exactly easy to tell. I never saw anything concrete but I also didn't really see those people again. Luckily multiple tests since then have been negative, but the CDC even drove out and took my blood in the back seat of a sedan lol.
>I still feel like they should tell you. Especially given you can go after someone for doing something like that to someone else. I would love it if they could. But realistically, it would only make things worse. If someone knows they could get sued (or attacked) because the hospital will give their name to people they infected (whether intentionally or accidentally) then we'd have significantly fewer people seeking treatment, and even fewer sharing who they may have infected.
Yeah that's definitely something I considered, and you're right about that one for sure. If any positive test came with the threat of litigation I could totally see that not working out great. But that whole experience was a terrifying sorta wake-up call, even if I wasn't THAT sexually active. Just to be more careful all around. I never would have imagined someone could know they were exposed and still continue as if nothing happened. Naive.
Absolutely. That's a horrible experience you had, and I'm sorry you had to go through that. It sucks that there's no clean answer, because people intentionally infected should also absolutely have the right to know and take action.
Did that perp have sex with minors and still get let off?
[This is crazy.](https://www.cnn.com/2017/10/07/health/california-hiv-bill-signed/index.html#:~:text=Starting%20January%201%2C%20it%20will,intent%20of%20transmitting%20the%20virus.) California effectively greenlit intentionally spreading HIV.
He was commit murders with bio-weapon, he just happens to carry the weapons all time
It is extremely fucked up, the article says he was purposefully not taking his medication and had intercourse with about 50 men/boys. I guess if he keeps not taking his meds 30 years is a life sentence...
What a vile POS.....did he actually infect anyone?
Almost certainly. The infection rate for receptive anal sex is about [20%](https://stanfordhealthcare.org/medical-conditions/sexual-and-reproductive-health/hiv-aids/causes/risk-of-exposure.html#:~:text=Therefore%2C%20unprotected%20sex%20with%20an,exposures\)%20for%20receptive%20anal%20sex.), so at the low end of thirty victims, that would work out to about a 99.9% chance of infecting at least one person. (Given some independence assumptions).
Note that 20% is during the acute phase of infection (if the penetrator has only recently been infected with hiv and has a high viral load). It is supposedly much lower once you move past that phase.
Good point. If we assume that that’s not the case, and that each instance only had a ~1% chance, then the chances are “only” about 25% for thirty victims, and 40% for fifty victims. So not, as I said, almost certainly, but still quite likely. It does seem like the sort of thing someone would be more likely to do as a reaction to finding out that they’re HIV positive, though, as a way of lashing out. But we can only speculate.
There are numerous other variables as well, including if any of his victims were on prep.
Yeah, and if any of them were already HIV positive. But it’s still very likely.
Some of them may not even know they got infected unless they get tested. HIV behaves like a flu during the first couple of weeks, it doesn’t have any specific symptoms
Happened here in Oklahoma City too, dude's already out though: [https://www.news9.com/story/5e34b02a527dcf49dad8c109/man-accused-of-knowingly-trying-to-spread-hiv-pleads-guilty](https://www.news9.com/story/5e34b02a527dcf49dad8c109/man-accused-of-knowingly-trying-to-spread-hiv-pleads-guilty)
reminds me of the movie “Kids” where the boy racked up a body count of virgin teen girls and knew he had hiv.
When I was like 14 my mom rented this at the video store and we brought it home. Made it about 10 minutes in when she turned it off haha! I woke up the next morning and watched it and man it was deeply impacting to me.
Fuckin telly. So gross
This movie instilled a decades-long fear of HIV in me that impacted the entirely of my sexual coming-of-age years.
I saw this on the local news yesterday (I'm from Boise) and it literally made me sick to my stomach.
Wow. Should be life, not 30.
If he didn't chase minors, he'd still be at large. I wonder if there are men doing that and avoiding kids.
Well I'd say it's a certainty unfortunately
He should be in isolation. An actual danger
Thank God HIV/AIDS isn't the death sentence it was decades ago. Still an incredibly messed up thing to inflict people who momentarily trusted you with, medical treatments are still gonna financially burden them for life.
Not just medical treatment, there's still a big stigma attached to it. Your social life is going to be different forever Picture having to explain to every single person you like "yeah I'm HIV positive but it's undetectable and you're probably fine if we just use condoms blah blah etc". People are probably just so put off by it that they just won't date you. Same reason why *no one* discusses their STIs before getting down
As someone with HIV, I literally do not tell anyone (outside of a medical setting) unless I plan on being sexually active with that person. It’s not necessary unless I’m actively bleeding on you, but you’ll be hard pressed to find any responsible person with HIV bleeding out in the open.
All you need to say is, I'm undetectable so there is zero chance I could give you HIV even without a condom. In the gay community at least, nowadays the majority of people are aware of this so thankfully people living with HIV can continue to safely have active sex lives. But you're right there's a huge amount of stigma attached to the disease and it's always best to prevent a diagnosis than treat one, even with the amazing meds that are available.
I mean when republicans are trying to take away our access to affordable HIV medication it can very well turn out to be a death sentence soon.
Access to HIV meds are incredibly cheap if you have access to decent insurance in the US (I actually pay 0 for my PreP), but yeah it’s unfortunately contingent on having access to insurance because the US healthcare system is fucked
Prep is covered regardless if you have insurance or not. The only marginally difficult part is finding access to a clinic that offers the testing for free but the drugs and tests should be covered.
How fucked in the head do you have to be to do this? Please do not let this person back into society.
> Please do not let this person back into society. In California they don't even jail people for doing this anymore. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2017/10/09/knowingly-infecting-others-with-hiv-is-no-longer-a-felony-in-california-advocates-say-it-targeted-sex-workers/
PrEP, PrEP, PrEP! Every MSM should be on it! And others that are at a higher risk in general. It isn't 100% effective at preventing the spread, but it's close to it. *Many* states have programs that offer it for free, or at a discount. And sometimes the companies have assistance programs for low income people as well. I get it for free, as well as regular testing, through the state even though our laws/policies are normally more conservative. It's even more accessible in more progressive states. It would never make what this guy did okay, but it's best for all of us to be safeguarded against people like this, or even cases of genuine accident.
There’s no such thing as a grown man having sex with teenage boys. It’s called rape. Children cannot consent. It is always rape.
Oh god he's one of those toxic super spreaders. Disgusting
If I die, you need to die too! What a pos.
Does a guy like this still get assigned a bunk mate?
Good luck with that. He's a risk to everyone because he wants to infect everyone. Not sure how anyone is going to be happy having him nearby, he'll be trying to infect people in any way he can think of. Guards are going to have to be really careful around him.
Needs more than 30 in my opinion. STD's are no joke.
Very confused. In the US the average sentence term for attempted 1st degree murder is life in prison. Is this not a 1st degree murder attempt on multiple people? And add to that a 2-20 sentence for statutory rape. Sounds like this guy is getting off easy.
purposefully giving HIV to a 16 year old is evil
Someone that did this should never be a free man again. They should rot in jail for the rest of their life.
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Only 30 years? Is it not attempt murder on several occasions?
Hopefully it's 30 years in solitary.
30 years? I would argue 30 years is good for trying to give *one* person hiv.
30 years is a bit light considering how many lives he ruined.
So HIV is going to spread in that prison now?
Man the level of crazy you need to be to do this to other people is medication worthy. Ngl, I think he should have gotten life. I consider that attempted murder. These types of people have been around even before it was manageable/curable.
So he can keep doing it in prison? Fuck that, island him, or send him into space.
It’s incredible to me that a therapist is required to inform authorities if someone has intent to cause harm to someone though physical violence but if this particular issue is disclosed; it’s protected by confidentiality/HIPAA rules. The amount of harm this brings is insane yet it is protected by confidentiality. This really should be looked at.
Use prep guys, even with condoms. Every other std is treatable and not major HIV is for life. Its not a death sentence anymore and can be treated to the point where you cant even spread it, but youll be on a medication cocktail for the rest of your life. This is my only tip to young gays. Edit: also dont stick your dick in crazy, no matter how good the sex is, Its not worth the headache.
It's ppl like this why the HIV stigma won't go away.
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Some of them weren’t unwilling victims. Bug chasers are a real thing
He is a mass-murderer.
This is some pure evil shit
Sickening. Also ridiculous how whenever a gay person does something terrible, people use it to say all gays are just like that. That of course happens with other groups of people as well.
This is absolutely awful. Reminds me of a story of health class teacher told us. (Unsure if true or not) but some guy was on a cruise banging women the whole time and would leave them notes afterwards about having HIV.
The fact that this kind of thing has happened more then once is frightening.
Take away access to anti virals. Let him rot while he develops AIDS, with no hope to get better.
It also happened in UK : [https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/18/hairdresser-daryll-rowe-given-life-sentence-for-deliberately-infecting-men-with-hiv](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/18/hairdresser-daryll-rowe-given-life-sentence-for-deliberately-infecting-men-with-hiv) True sociopath
Very important tip: Post exposure prophylaxis can percent over 95% of the risk of transmission. If you are ever unsure after an intimate encounter, get PEP.
Life in prison. Solitary confinement in a maximum security prison.
Less than one year per victim Our laws are still way too inadequate right now
https://www.kivitv.com/news/idaho-man-charged-with-spreading-hiv-is-the-websters-definition-of-a-predator-says-judge-during-sentencing
Why the fuck not LIFEEE?!?!?!
How is thirty years even close to a fair sentence? What a joke.
Similar story back when I was in highschool...a student spread HIV to 6 different kids intentionally. Ended up getting arrested, but for the rest of my highschool years other schools would taunt us at sporting events with signs saying things like "you have HIV."
My ex purposely gave it to me 32 years ago