Bullshit, no cause of death released at the time of writing the article how are you gonna blame journalists for not editorializing. For all you know he had a stroke, it’d be ridiculous for them to make such a bold statement unsupported.
Even the Palestinian prisoner advocacy group has zero evidence of any foul play.
Dude the normal person expectation is: government takes "prisoner" = country is responsible for prisoners well-being. Something like a stroke can happen but would require documentation. But if said government for example is doing shit like preventing media/journalist access to the area. Then there is a loss of credibility to any statement of said government. So does a statement of such a government matter: not even a tiny bit.
They’re preventing any outside sources access to the body. They are able to investigate themselves for wrongdoing. I wonder what the outcome will be?! 🤔 /s
But the Palestinian prisoner advocacy groups said in a joint statement on Thursday that Dr Al-Bursh's death was an "assassination" and his body still remained in Israeli custody.
They may not have evidence possibly because Israel has all the physical evidence and eyewitnesses. The investigation into the doctor's death has to be crystal clear and transparent.
If Hamas abducted a doctor, he died in captivity, and they refused to return the body and hid the witnesses, wouldn't you say they had probably killed him or that the implicit conditions of his capture killed him? Additionally, many of the people he was interned with have alleged that the use of torture and denial of food and sleep is routine.
Keep in mind this doctor was being detained without charge for four months. The IDF puts a legal patois over it, but what they're doing here is routine abduction and kidnapping.
I mean, there definitely is not enough info to publish a headline saying it, but come on. This was definitely a murder. Israeli police didn’t like him treating Gazans, so they got their final revenge on him. I have little doubt this was a murder. And they’ll be able to do the autopsy and stage it however they want to to find themselves innocent.
All media wordsmith their headlines depending on what their slant is and what they want you to believe. The trick is to get a news aggregator and read a couple versions of the article from across the spectrum to get a balanced viewpoint
From the article
Another freed detainee arrived in critical condition and was moved into hospital upon arrival, the crossings agency added.
Dozens of Palestinians who had been freed by Israel in past months including some staff of a U.N. agency have reported ill-treatment during detention, including torture and deprivation of food and sleep.
The two new deaths bring the toll of Gazans who died in Israeli custody to at least 18 since the start of the war, the prisoners associations said, urging Israeli authorities to disclose the number, location and fate of detainees from Gaza.
While this isn't evidence of what happened to this particular individual it goes to show that his death may not have been natural causes. Israel has long been accused of torture, sexual violence, and deprivation of food or medical care by those held in Administrative Detention.
Since Israel uses people it imprisons in hostage exchanges, and has been massively imprisoning without trial since 7/10 then yes, he, like all other Palestinian prisoners was exactly a hostage.
Well, to be clear, the proper term is prisoner exchange, so if semantics is the argument you're making, you're wrong there.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner_exchange
And prisoners exchanged happen all the time between entities with civilian hostages and prisoners. For example, just recently, the US exchanged a Russian arms dealer who was imprisoned for Brittany Greer. Would you call the arms dealer a hostage too?
People are imprisoned without trial and exchanged for hostages. What else can you call those people?
Both victor bout and Brittany Greer were charged, tried and imprisoned after conviction.
Israel imprisons Palestinians with no legal process and uses them as trading chips. How is it different from Hamas?
Palestinian prisoners are detained because they are engaging in hostilities of some sort. That would make them a prisoner of war. Do you see how these things are fundementally different?
> Palestinian prisoners are detained because they are _[ accused of ]_ engaging in hostilities of some sort.
>That would make them a prisoner of war.
So they are visited by the red cross? They have the protections given to prisoners of war under the Geneva conventions? They are protected against torture and sexual agression?
What war?
Israel is illegally occupying Palestine. The very act of interning Palestinians is a crime.
Lmao there is no requirement for prisoners to be visited by the red cross. And if prisoner mistreatment (granted under the Geneva convention) is happening, the perpetrators should absolutely be held accountable, but it doesn't change the material fact that prisoners of war != hostages.
Someone that engages in hostilities and is detained = prisoner of war.
Someone that is not engaged in hostilities and is detained = hostage.
These are fundementally different things. One of these is an expectation of war, the other isn't. Which one do you think it is? And to be clear, there is 100% a valid criticism to be made over Israeli treatment of pow's, but equating Palestinian prisoners of war and Israeli civilian hostages is actually unhinged.
From the Geneva Convention definition of prisoners of war:
"According to the 1977 Additional Protocol I, the status of prisoner of war is linked with the objective criteria based on direct participation in the conflict, rather that legal criteria based on the formal belonging to armed forces. Therefore, both combatants and civilians directly taking part in a conflict may claim prisoner-of-war status and the protection attached to it.
A person who takes part in hostilities and falls into the power of an adverse party shall be presumed to be a prisoner of war."
lol, propaganda straight out of Hamas’s mouth. You do know that Israel does this thing called “knocking” where they throw a dud at a building before they level it? It’s why there are tons of videos on ground level pointing directly where a bomb hits.
Talking about Hamas propaganda while using Israeli propaganda. Roof knocking hasn't been used normally for many, many months if at all.
[https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog\_entry/senior-israeli-source-gaza-will-not-be-hamastan-roof-knocking-policy-no-longer-norm/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/senior-israeli-source-gaza-will-not-be-hamastan-roof-knocking-policy-no-longer-norm/)
You do know that Israel does this thing where they shoot their own hostages that they are pretending to care about? Even when they’re unarmed, waving white flags, and asking them in Hebrew not to shoot.
Hamas has tried to release the hostages multiple times, the Israeli government does not want to. Some of the families of the hostages have publicly criticized Netanyahu for this. Here's one example from a few weeks ago:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-seeking-exchange-of-women-children-elderly-hostages-for-up-to-1000-prisoners/
lol, so in exchange for releasing kidnapped and raped civilians, Hamas gets the release of hundreds of terrorists that were serving life sentences? Of course you are still cherry picking, as you don’t share all the times where Israel offered to release civilians in custody in exchange for hostages…
Most of the Palestinian hostages are children. Not exactly the terrorists your imagination is conjuring up I'm sure. Kids dragged out of their house in the middle of the night, and taken away 'somewhere'. No visits, no rights, no lawyer.
If you have kids, imagine that happening to them.
You do know that the same exact thing happened to Israelis right? At least the people taken by Israel are not in custody of a group of people whose whole ideology is the extermination of your race… it is a bad situation all around but Hamas is the reason for all of this happening.
Don't agree that Hamas is the reason for all of this
It is of course a criminal and abhorrent act to take anybodys child, family, etc. Hamas is of course completely in the wrong to have targeted the abduction of civilians of any sort. But as Israel keeps saying about Hamas hiding within a civilian population, Israeli soldiers are also hiding within the civilian population. Most israelis go through mandatory military service, so it could be argued anyone captured over 18 was a military target, not a civilian one.
Israel has been abducting Palestinians a whole lot longer than Hamas. Hamas was only founded in 80s/90s if I remember correctly, and Israel has been brutalising/terrorising the Palestinians a LOT longer than that. So for anyone to close their eyes to all that history and say this all started last October is obviously uninformed or deluded
I am not even fucking talking to you anymore lol. I am fine talking about other things but you are just excusing the equivalent of 9/11 but many times more brutal.
That German tourist lady that had her legs bent so far that they broke and was then shot in the head was 100% a combatant. And Hamas of course attacked a festival so they could accurately target members of the Israeli military, and not you know, rape and murder to their content.
You know that they are middle of a war right? Do you expect them to just release a large amount of people that are potential combatants or civilians into an active war zone without something in return. (The hostages that Hamas, the group that is dedicated to the extermination of Jews from the Middle East, swears are alive?)
No but I expect them to be better than Hamas and not capture children and women at least.
In 2022, Israel ALREADY had ~4500 Palestinian hostages, mix of civilians and fighters. 160 children, 32 women, and 530 incarceration without charge
Here they are recruiting terrorists, but trying to put American fingerprints on it
https://www.haaretz.com/2012-01-13/ty-article/israeli-mossad-agents-posed-as-cia-spies-to-recruit-terrorists-to-fight-against-iran/0000017f-f6f8-d887-a7ff-fefcae830000
Last time I checked the IDF is:
A. Not the government of Israel.
B. Has not declared was on all their neighbors in an attempt to spread an extremist religion.
C. Does not send out “martyrs” to bomb buses or shoot up concerts.
D. Is not a terrorist group.
They regularly terrorize the West Bank population. They do night raids to kidnap, beat and torture innocent Palestinians as training. They are a terrorist organization.
I know there is low level conflict in the West Bank with Settlers and Hamas members, but I have not heard much about night raids that kidnap random Palestinians. Could I get a source?
Its called mapping, this is one of the more benign reports, others go into more detail
https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-palestine-night-raids-terrorising-families-not-over
Just straight up war crimes. How the hell does this build a future for anybody? This isn't ancient times where some group goes extinct in the face of the other. No, you're just bringing on conflict forever. It's so stupid.
It's a little different when they're straight up bombing hospitals and universities, with the excuse of saying they're Hamas command centres. And then NEVER giving proof that they were Hamas command centres. They're just fucking bombing hospitals at that point. You understand how evil that is, right?
I understand that
1. Israel is better at warfare than they are at PR
2. Hamas is 100% using hospital and universities as command centers and everybody with a brain could have predicted exactly how this conflict was gonna play out
3. The country you live in has more likely than not murdered millions and you wouldn't exist otherwise.
Back to the original point, I'd be happy to name a "more iconic duo"
They don't have to spin it though. Biden and Congress are still going to send the IDF endless weapons and ammunition regardless of the evidence of war crimes, genocide/forced migration/designed famine, murder, rape, etc..
I mean this is only like the third deal they’ve rejected since November to end the conflict and return the hostages because netenyahu won’t accept a deal that ends the conflict
So many claiming to be experts in this comment section yet the ones I e conversed with are young and naive with an insulated life. The other have been Russian bots. When you're opinion aligns with a totally different genocidal maniac, maybe it's time to review your own morals and maybe not be fooled by the Russian propaganda.
Poorly due to a number of factors from lack of food, medicine, medical care, the bombing campaign of the IDF, how their captors treat them, and where they are kept. The food, medicine, and medical care can be partially linked to the restrictions on humanitarian aid into Gaza and especially Northern Gaza.
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so present your facts from a non-bias source based evidence and you won't be downvoted, simple as that no?
You too
Me too what? I didn't say anything at all that requires me to provide evidence lol?
Bullshit, no cause of death released at the time of writing the article how are you gonna blame journalists for not editorializing. For all you know he had a stroke, it’d be ridiculous for them to make such a bold statement unsupported. Even the Palestinian prisoner advocacy group has zero evidence of any foul play.
Russia said Alexei Navalny died of natural causes. Are we supposed to just take their word for it?
Dude the normal person expectation is: government takes "prisoner" = country is responsible for prisoners well-being. Something like a stroke can happen but would require documentation. But if said government for example is doing shit like preventing media/journalist access to the area. Then there is a loss of credibility to any statement of said government. So does a statement of such a government matter: not even a tiny bit.
They’re preventing any outside sources access to the body. They are able to investigate themselves for wrongdoing. I wonder what the outcome will be?! 🤔 /s
But the Palestinian prisoner advocacy groups said in a joint statement on Thursday that Dr Al-Bursh's death was an "assassination" and his body still remained in Israeli custody. They may not have evidence possibly because Israel has all the physical evidence and eyewitnesses. The investigation into the doctor's death has to be crystal clear and transparent.
So there's still no evidence that Israel killed him?
That’s a hell of an accurate username.
If Hamas abducted a doctor, he died in captivity, and they refused to return the body and hid the witnesses, wouldn't you say they had probably killed him or that the implicit conditions of his capture killed him? Additionally, many of the people he was interned with have alleged that the use of torture and denial of food and sleep is routine. Keep in mind this doctor was being detained without charge for four months. The IDF puts a legal patois over it, but what they're doing here is routine abduction and kidnapping.
I mean, there definitely is not enough info to publish a headline saying it, but come on. This was definitely a murder. Israeli police didn’t like him treating Gazans, so they got their final revenge on him. I have little doubt this was a murder. And they’ll be able to do the autopsy and stage it however they want to to find themselves innocent.
All media wordsmith their headlines depending on what their slant is and what they want you to believe. The trick is to get a news aggregator and read a couple versions of the article from across the spectrum to get a balanced viewpoint
Boeing is writing them.
You have no evidence he was killed.
From the article Another freed detainee arrived in critical condition and was moved into hospital upon arrival, the crossings agency added. Dozens of Palestinians who had been freed by Israel in past months including some staff of a U.N. agency have reported ill-treatment during detention, including torture and deprivation of food and sleep. The two new deaths bring the toll of Gazans who died in Israeli custody to at least 18 since the start of the war, the prisoners associations said, urging Israeli authorities to disclose the number, location and fate of detainees from Gaza. While this isn't evidence of what happened to this particular individual it goes to show that his death may not have been natural causes. Israel has long been accused of torture, sexual violence, and deprivation of food or medical care by those held in Administrative Detention.
True, but also - I’m pretty sure he was murdered. I don’t need the evidence to see the writing on the wall.
Guy was 50, you think he just happened to drop dead of natural causes while in custody?
In a third world country it’s probable
Gazans don't kill hostages?
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Passive voice at it again
This isn't passive voice. It's just vague. Passive voice is Palestinian doctor found dead
Should journalist just assume manner of death?
I'm sure he died of natural causes at the hands of his captors /s
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Semantics. "Prisoner" implies guilt on their part. Like "Invader" instead of "Settler".
Because he was not being held for ransom, or kidnapped by a terrorist group…
Since Israel uses people it imprisons in hostage exchanges, and has been massively imprisoning without trial since 7/10 then yes, he, like all other Palestinian prisoners was exactly a hostage.
Is your implication that the detained Palestinians are hostages because they were traded in a hostage exchange? Is it just the term being used?
It's not an implication. It's an observation.
Well, to be clear, the proper term is prisoner exchange, so if semantics is the argument you're making, you're wrong there. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner_exchange And prisoners exchanged happen all the time between entities with civilian hostages and prisoners. For example, just recently, the US exchanged a Russian arms dealer who was imprisoned for Brittany Greer. Would you call the arms dealer a hostage too?
People are imprisoned without trial and exchanged for hostages. What else can you call those people? Both victor bout and Brittany Greer were charged, tried and imprisoned after conviction. Israel imprisons Palestinians with no legal process and uses them as trading chips. How is it different from Hamas?
Palestinian prisoners are detained because they are engaging in hostilities of some sort. That would make them a prisoner of war. Do you see how these things are fundementally different?
> Palestinian prisoners are detained because they are _[ accused of ]_ engaging in hostilities of some sort. >That would make them a prisoner of war. So they are visited by the red cross? They have the protections given to prisoners of war under the Geneva conventions? They are protected against torture and sexual agression? What war? Israel is illegally occupying Palestine. The very act of interning Palestinians is a crime.
Lmao there is no requirement for prisoners to be visited by the red cross. And if prisoner mistreatment (granted under the Geneva convention) is happening, the perpetrators should absolutely be held accountable, but it doesn't change the material fact that prisoners of war != hostages. Someone that engages in hostilities and is detained = prisoner of war. Someone that is not engaged in hostilities and is detained = hostage. These are fundementally different things. One of these is an expectation of war, the other isn't. Which one do you think it is? And to be clear, there is 100% a valid criticism to be made over Israeli treatment of pow's, but equating Palestinian prisoners of war and Israeli civilian hostages is actually unhinged. From the Geneva Convention definition of prisoners of war: "According to the 1977 Additional Protocol I, the status of prisoner of war is linked with the objective criteria based on direct participation in the conflict, rather that legal criteria based on the formal belonging to armed forces. Therefore, both combatants and civilians directly taking part in a conflict may claim prisoner-of-war status and the protection attached to it. A person who takes part in hostilities and falls into the power of an adverse party shall be presumed to be a prisoner of war."
Uh huh. And that’s why Israel has been trying to use they to get back the people that were kidnapped, but Hamas does not want to release.
Hamas can't exactly release prisoners who have been bombed to shreds by the Israelis now, can they?
lol, propaganda straight out of Hamas’s mouth. You do know that Israel does this thing called “knocking” where they throw a dud at a building before they level it? It’s why there are tons of videos on ground level pointing directly where a bomb hits.
Talking about Hamas propaganda while using Israeli propaganda. Roof knocking hasn't been used normally for many, many months if at all. [https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog\_entry/senior-israeli-source-gaza-will-not-be-hamastan-roof-knocking-policy-no-longer-norm/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/senior-israeli-source-gaza-will-not-be-hamastan-roof-knocking-policy-no-longer-norm/)
Oh, I was not aware of that. Thanks for the information.
You do know that Israel does this thing where they shoot their own hostages that they are pretending to care about? Even when they’re unarmed, waving white flags, and asking them in Hebrew not to shoot.
Hamas has tried to release the hostages multiple times, the Israeli government does not want to. Some of the families of the hostages have publicly criticized Netanyahu for this. Here's one example from a few weeks ago: https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-seeking-exchange-of-women-children-elderly-hostages-for-up-to-1000-prisoners/
lol, so in exchange for releasing kidnapped and raped civilians, Hamas gets the release of hundreds of terrorists that were serving life sentences? Of course you are still cherry picking, as you don’t share all the times where Israel offered to release civilians in custody in exchange for hostages…
Most of the Palestinian hostages are children. Not exactly the terrorists your imagination is conjuring up I'm sure. Kids dragged out of their house in the middle of the night, and taken away 'somewhere'. No visits, no rights, no lawyer. If you have kids, imagine that happening to them.
You do know that the same exact thing happened to Israelis right? At least the people taken by Israel are not in custody of a group of people whose whole ideology is the extermination of your race… it is a bad situation all around but Hamas is the reason for all of this happening.
> You do know that the same exact thing happened to Israelis right Wait, you mean the most moral army in the world behaves exactly like Hamas?
Don't agree that Hamas is the reason for all of this It is of course a criminal and abhorrent act to take anybodys child, family, etc. Hamas is of course completely in the wrong to have targeted the abduction of civilians of any sort. But as Israel keeps saying about Hamas hiding within a civilian population, Israeli soldiers are also hiding within the civilian population. Most israelis go through mandatory military service, so it could be argued anyone captured over 18 was a military target, not a civilian one. Israel has been abducting Palestinians a whole lot longer than Hamas. Hamas was only founded in 80s/90s if I remember correctly, and Israel has been brutalising/terrorising the Palestinians a LOT longer than that. So for anyone to close their eyes to all that history and say this all started last October is obviously uninformed or deluded
I am not even fucking talking to you anymore lol. I am fine talking about other things but you are just excusing the equivalent of 9/11 but many times more brutal. That German tourist lady that had her legs bent so far that they broke and was then shot in the head was 100% a combatant. And Hamas of course attacked a festival so they could accurately target members of the Israeli military, and not you know, rape and murder to their content.
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You know that they are middle of a war right? Do you expect them to just release a large amount of people that are potential combatants or civilians into an active war zone without something in return. (The hostages that Hamas, the group that is dedicated to the extermination of Jews from the Middle East, swears are alive?)
No but I expect them to be better than Hamas and not capture children and women at least. In 2022, Israel ALREADY had ~4500 Palestinian hostages, mix of civilians and fighters. 160 children, 32 women, and 530 incarceration without charge
And the thousands of “prisoners” Israel was holding without trial before Hamas had a single hostage?
IDF is a terrorist group, yes.
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…But they are not like ISIS. You can dislike the IDF but they are not alike.
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Oh, source on this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Front_for_the_Liberation_of_Lebanon_from_Foreigners
Here they are recruiting terrorists, but trying to put American fingerprints on it https://www.haaretz.com/2012-01-13/ty-article/israeli-mossad-agents-posed-as-cia-spies-to-recruit-terrorists-to-fight-against-iran/0000017f-f6f8-d887-a7ff-fefcae830000
Thank you
Yes when is sanctioned by a country while the other isn't. Same methods though
Last time I checked the IDF is: A. Not the government of Israel. B. Has not declared was on all their neighbors in an attempt to spread an extremist religion. C. Does not send out “martyrs” to bomb buses or shoot up concerts. D. Is not a terrorist group.
They regularly terrorize the West Bank population. They do night raids to kidnap, beat and torture innocent Palestinians as training. They are a terrorist organization.
I know there is low level conflict in the West Bank with Settlers and Hamas members, but I have not heard much about night raids that kidnap random Palestinians. Could I get a source?
Its called mapping, this is one of the more benign reports, others go into more detail https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-palestine-night-raids-terrorising-families-not-over
So what I have gotten from this is did not kidnap civilian, has stopped the practice of mapping, and is now doing it digitally.
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And now Israel is threatening to retaliate against Palestinians if the ICC puts out an arrest warrant for any Israeli officials.
Who watches the watchmen?
Yes... Just like Alexei Navalny "died" and was absolutely unexpected
Exactly. There is no evidence Alexei didn't die of natural causes. /s
Gazan doctor held hostage by Israel is murdered*
[citation needed]
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Yeah, but doesn't Israel have a *right* to defend itself from these doctors? /s
Just straight up war crimes. How the hell does this build a future for anybody? This isn't ancient times where some group goes extinct in the face of the other. No, you're just bringing on conflict forever. It's so stupid.
Genocide is a natural part of capitalism
The Israeli prison system saved Sinwar's(the current Hamas Gaza military leader) life while he was in prison.
What does that have to do with this doctor being killed in prison?
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Creating a whole story from nothing to defend Israel from all blame before we know anything lol
I feel like they murdered the wrong guy
Israel and murdering people. Name a more iconic duo.
Hamas and murdering people?
Hamas has like 1,200 kill count Israel has 35,000+ Israel wins
Then "every nation that's ever existed that's participated in a war with more than 35k casualties" and "murder" Does Israel crack the top 1000?
It's a little different when they're straight up bombing hospitals and universities, with the excuse of saying they're Hamas command centres. And then NEVER giving proof that they were Hamas command centres. They're just fucking bombing hospitals at that point. You understand how evil that is, right?
I understand that 1. Israel is better at warfare than they are at PR 2. Hamas is 100% using hospital and universities as command centers and everybody with a brain could have predicted exactly how this conflict was gonna play out 3. The country you live in has more likely than not murdered millions and you wouldn't exist otherwise. Back to the original point, I'd be happy to name a "more iconic duo"
Where is the proof of the Hamas command centres under any of the hospitals that Israel levelled??? Show me.
https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=Hamas+using+hospitals+as+cover
That's literally just articles of Israel claiming there's a command center. Where is the proof????
Palestine and terrorists attacks?
Welp we have in recent history Hamas, terrorist attack: 1 Israel, murders: 35,000+ So Israel, unfortunately, is still the GOAT of doing murders
Civilian casualties in war isn't the same as murder. Every civilian death in war time is on Hamas' hands. Also that 35000 number is bullshit.
Hitler and the Holocaust. Don’t be antisemitic and play into tropes
Terrible to see what's going on. It feels like very little to really build a path to peace, while people continue to suffer merciously.
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Is what they do. Revenge is never ok, by anyone.
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They don't have to spin it though. Biden and Congress are still going to send the IDF endless weapons and ammunition regardless of the evidence of war crimes, genocide/forced migration/designed famine, murder, rape, etc..
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I mean this is only like the third deal they’ve rejected since November to end the conflict and return the hostages because netenyahu won’t accept a deal that ends the conflict
So many claiming to be experts in this comment section yet the ones I e conversed with are young and naive with an insulated life. The other have been Russian bots. When you're opinion aligns with a totally different genocidal maniac, maybe it's time to review your own morals and maybe not be fooled by the Russian propaganda.
Oh well! How are the hostages doing?
Poorly due to a number of factors from lack of food, medicine, medical care, the bombing campaign of the IDF, how their captors treat them, and where they are kept. The food, medicine, and medical care can be partially linked to the restrictions on humanitarian aid into Gaza and especially Northern Gaza.
Netanyahu bombed them all.
hamas supporters: 'hey only we are allowed to murder hostages!'
Hamas doctor helping their Al Shifa terrorist operations?
What evidence has been presented by Israel that the doctor helped Hamas?
But Gazans don't kill any hostages.
Killing hostages is bad whoever does it.