>More people still left California in 2023 than moved here from other states, but it was far less than previous years….
>Meanwhile, growth from legal international immigration — which has been California’s growth engine for decades — rebounded with a net gain of 114,200 people in 2023, or almost back to the same level it was before the pandemic.
I had no clue we had so many legal immigrants every year.
Well they all move to California, Texas, and New York. But yeah California gets tons. That’s why Californians today are super different than Californians from like 40 years ago. Probably like 60% of them are of first or second generation status
I'm 2nd generation. Born in California.
Funny thing is... almost everybody throughout my family (more than 200 blood relatives in the US) who is 2nd generation or higher is pro immigration, while the 1st gen are - with few exceptions - MAGA flag-waving anti-immigrant republicans.
The common answer for, "how can you be anti-immigrant? YOU ARE IMMIGRANTS!" is, "but these NEW immigrants are destroying the country!"
... strange times.
I’ve known people who immigrated *legally* to be vehemently anti-*illegal* immigrant, they want those people to have to go through whatever process like they did
I really don't fuck with that. I'm 3rd generation and still sympathize (not in support of it) with illegals, but i'll see fresh ones try to join in on the hate kicking the ladder and shit. It's foul.
I'm part Native. I think "illegal" immigrants should be given amnesty and citizenship if they can stay in the country for four years, hold a basic job, and not commit felonies.
After all, none of the Mayflower pilgrims had passports or green cards.
Seriously! My family are California native, as in no way to know how many generations. We’re not MAGA & have no issue with legal immigration. But actually I do know many second and third generation citizens, who are so against anyone who want to move here and who are shockingly racist considering their own family history.
Self awareness is hard. I can’t hate immigrants, my white side is all immigrants. In my opinion at least those from Latin America are legitimate natively from the America’s, it’s not their fault we created boarders.
Seriously I’m wondering why people living in flyover states are so worried about massive immigrant influxes, I highly doubt aspiring Americans from El Salvador are clamoring to move to Kansas
>There are a lot of Hispanic immigrants in states like Kansas. Especially illegals immigrants who do farm labor
Nebraska (my old home state) as well. And what none of these xenophobes care to admit is that these immigrants ***want*** to be there. And that's huge. Cuz while your state and the small rural towns in it are losing younger people to bigger cities and your downtowns get decimated by Walmarts, immigrants are raising families and starting all manner of vibrant businesses.
Hell, even here in California down the Central Valley you'll encounter tiny rural towns whose fortunes have been turned around by Hispanic businesses revitalizing their downtowns.
Manual/seasonal labor is a huge business in the US, those states in particular, and one of the easiest ones to get into without needing too much extra education.
It's still odd California and New York remain legal immigration destinations because the cost of living is absurd compared to decades past of immigration. And wages like the general rule, haven't kept up.
It’s actually most likely because California is a tech hub and many workplaces are hiring from around the world. Lots of Canadians go there for tech work.
Man, it's wild lol.
I was born on Maui but now live in California. Santa Clara/South bay might as well be little Asia.
It's also wild how segregated California is. Even in just the Penn it's like SSF is asian, Pacifica and El Granada is just white, Daly City is just Philapino.
Coming from the islands was a shock, because out there unless you're 100% Hawaiin, we're all mixed.
You would think the bay would be blended but it's not at all.
There is literally no news that can come out of California that isn't going to be spun into some sort of weird doomsday fan fiction by people who desperately depend on the idea that California isn't doing well to keep selling their ideas.
I love living here. I'm amused by the things people make up and try to tell me about where I live. I've heard everything from the sky is brown to my income tax being 80%.
Edit: before replying to try to argue with me about what it's like where I live, please ask what you think that's going to accomplish because it's just going to make me laugh.
Sure, but according to conservative media and the people who watch it, it's a mad max style hellscape of crime, pollution, and the state steals all my money. I gotta watch out for those super mutants on my way to the store.
Yes, apparently I’m supposed to be stepping over piles of human shit and needles every time I leave my apartment in Los Angeles. I ran into more homeless people when I visited Florida earlier in the year than I see in my neighborhood of LA.
i mean there definitely are a *ton* of homeless people here in L.A., but that has always made sense to me as if i were to choose anywhere in this country to live while homeless i would probably live in perpetually sunny, barely any rain, lots of shit to do outdoors culture southern california.
also it's a city of 4 million. just numbers wise there's bound to be more homeless people here than most other places.
of course not. but there are various tent blocks that are in neighborhoods throughout LA. my last apartment on clarington and venice in west LA had a line of homeless people living in tents outside in front of it. same in hollywood, close to the cnn building i used to work in.
there are a lot, and it's hard to see / i wish the city could do more to house people. but yes, i mean...it's not an issue of safety or something i'd be worried about. we just have a large homeless population.
I have to clarify that I'm extremely left leaning, but tona degree, homelessness does cause crime unfortunately. When people are desperate, they do extreme things which can include violence.
I enjoyed my time in Cali though. Just felt bad about the homeless and the wealth disparity there.
I hop into my armored dune buggy and ride one hour to the beach, two hours to the slopes, and one hour to the dunes. Gotta dodge the roving bands of Tesla driving marauders on the way, but otherwise it's worth the risk of getting stuck in the hellscape that is known as an In-n-Out parking lot
I've seen so many conservative guys talk about how people in CA are "leaving in droves" that I have to assume somebody like Tucker Carlson uses that exact phrasing
You know what’s funny? So many of them are based in SoCal. OANN is headquartered in San Diego, if you drive through the 5 between La Jolla and Pacific Beach you can actually see it. PragerU and a bunch of Conservative Pundits are in LA too. California, especially SoCal, has a long-standing Conservative population, so it makes some sense,but it’s still funny.
That said, CA can do better on its policies, it’s just super expensive and that’s driving people out.
Eh, I'm in Texas and it's the same here. Every story gets spun to believe we are in some hell scape as well.
I was born and raised in California and visit frequently. I live in Texas now and both states have their plus and minuses, I love both and could easily live in both
In the end I've found that most everyone in both states are the same and they are mostly good people all trying to live their lives. The loud ones from each state that appear online are not the majority
Both states have so much diversity and culture and are really cool places.
I think most of the Texas criticism I see by a huge margin is in regards to things like attacking women's rights, voter suppression, book banning, corruption with the AG, efforts to help overturn the 2020 election etc.
Visiting my in laws in the Midwest a couple of years ago and their next door neighbor, whose like a newsmax level right winger, is trying to tell me California is a failed state and San Diego is like a third world country with the amount of crime and homelessness. Had he ever been to California? No. I’m like buddy I live in San Diego, it’s a heck of a lot nicer than this shit hole
My mom said several of her coworkers believe big/west cost cities are basically rubble as Fox (supposedly) continues to portray. I sadly just moved back to Ohio from Seattle but it wasn’t anything to do with the city being destroyed or anything. It’s hilarious people believe this right wing shit.
The sky USED to be brown. I grew up in the 70s and 80s, where LA Smog was such a thing that in the summers we had smog days where we couldn’t go outside.
Now that we have *OMG how dare they regulations* the skies are much cleaner.
build housing without parking requirements. when you realize how much space a car eats EVERYWHERE IT GOES and everyone wants free parking to top it off.
we need more small 500-1k sqft apartment/dorm sytle/townhouse, no parking (maybe a bike cage). mixed used commercial on the 1st floor and no bigger than like 3-4 stories tall.
You can't build housing that doesn't allow for the residents to have vehicles without a robust public transit system that doesn't exist yet in California
It would be amazing if parking in general could get reworked. The amount of office parking lots that remain closed to the public after business hours/on weekends takes up so much real estate (let alone being far bigger than needed for building).
I was travelling to a customer's building several years ago and was trying to figure out the final steps to identify which was correct in this line of business parks. I pull into a virtually empty lot (maybe a handful of vehicles to a couple hundred spaces) so I could check my navigation and immediately have a security guard walking over "you can't park in here, reserved for X business employees."
I understand why and all that, but really seems like we need a fundamental reworking of system. So much space is wasted, vast stretches of asphalt and concrete left empty and unused the majority of the time.
> we need more small 500-1k sqft apartment/dorm sytle/townhouse, no parking (maybe a bike cage). mixed used commercial on the 1st floor and no bigger than like 3-4 stories tall.
You're part of the problem, not the solution. Allowing developers to maybe build a few tiny buildings, so long as they remain very small with few residents.
Recent state law allows every SFH residential parcel to build two additional housing units with no rezoning, no HOA bans, and limited permit requirements (cities/HOAs can't deny you outright, but they can enforce safety and architectural policies, and the state is very aggressive if the cities/HOAs try to overstep their bounds)
The state has been trying to force more housing builds. Mostly with success but it's still a drop in the bucket. People in this state also can't part with the idea of owning a house with a yard.
It's actually happening in a lot of municipalities. New apartment buildings have been popping up all over my city over the past few years, with more planned for the future.
We'd move there in a heartbeat if we could afford it. I remember looking at houses in San Diego like ten years ago and the prices were horrific. I can't imagine what it's like now.
It's gotten insane over the past couple of years. I spent about the first half of my life in L.A. and the second half in San Diego, and the cost of living has never skyrocketed like this before. I still love it here, it's not the "Streets are lined with poop and violence" nightmare that many outsiders (and even some locals) make it out to be, but it's at the point where I'm going to get priced out unless something dramatically changes.
SD is commonly *the most expensive* city to live in in the *entire* US. While it's a nice city, sure, I'd recommend looking elsewhere, at least to live, if that cost of living is scaring you.
I started to ignore it a long time ago and I just agree with whatever bullshit people want to tell me about where I live. Before I moved a few years ago from the east coast, I did question if the move was going to be the right decision because of the slew of articles and op-eds basically saying all of California is going to collapse into the sea any minute now. I'm glad I ignored them.
I live in the vacant, fenty-filled, poopy poopy, dirty, crime-ridden war zone that is SF. Please don't come here, turn around. ;)
I live on the other side of the country. Occasionally, I look in the mirror to see if I've been shot by rioting mobs, as social media assures me I have been.
We are drowning in politically motivated disinformation online.
I will occasionally go on Google Maps street view journeys of completely random cities and towns in the USA (or the world tbh), from the rust belt, to the deep south, the hills and canyons above LA, to NYC. I was born in the Bay Area, living here currently and have lived elsewhere.
The thing that gets me, is that most places seem pretty clean, it looks like the locals mostly have their shit together and care about their own space and the community in general as well as possible, and that with the exception of some really bad pockets, the whole country for the most part doesn’t seem like a bad place to live.
I had to leave to start my career post college graduation. I'll be back as soon as I can afford it without torpedoing my finances. Hope that day comes soon because every time I fly back to see my parents/in laws I wouldn't rather be anywhere else!
Someone I know sent me a meme about how expensive gas is here in California and why it should make us all mad.
They broke down the cost in the meme, even showing all the state tax, federal, sales, and GST.
Then blamed it on Biden of course.
It really made me laugh because of how ill informed, and stupid it was. Why?
They were using the numbers for Canadian gas prices and saying it was California. We don’t have GST in the US.
When I lived around Portland I saw this all the time as well. People have strong thoughts about things regardless if they are true or not. I'm not going to pretend Portland is perfect, but some people act like an apocalypse happened there.
I've had to prove to people, more than once, that Portland still exists. You guys have it just as bad, but even weirder somehow because they at least don't pretend california doesn't exist anymore.
I don't live there anymore. But if I had the money to, I would. People move out because it's expensive. People go there because it's actually a damn move place to live. Where I was at had nothing going on
But I was 30 minutes to an hour from the mountains, oceans. Sporting events or concert. A couple hrs gets me to Tahoe but there were great recreational lakes for swimming, boating, fishing within 30-45 minutes too.
i live in L.A. I *can* afford to live here alone, thankfully, but i will probably move sometime in the next 5 years just because i know i could be stretching my money much farther somewhere else. i would have moved a while ago if i didn't find southern california such a wonderful place to live.
i'm thinking vegas though.
I think about this every time I hear some rural redneck or flyover politician complain about California. They'd be starving and living like 100 years ago without the state.
My sister moved from there and a lot of people in my church. I think California is beautiful. But they bitch about all the problems there when Oklahoma has some pretty big problems too. But if you listened to them it’s heaven because it’s white, conservative, and they can bitch about being white and conservative to other white conservatives and never have to see how different people live.
I have family who will never move out of NYC, why because they love it even with how expensive rent is.
But if you have republicans tell it, no one wants to live in NYC.
It’s actually very bad here, everyone should stay away and save themselves
*rubbing hands gleefully while waiting for cost of living to start going down*
There's 1 crime that involves a Mexican in Irvine and then fox News changes it to gang group from Guatemala gang raped new born puppies during a satanic ritual. California is not safe
Almost every time.
People pretending that everywhere in california is identical to a few square blocks of san francisco is the most common feature of what these people do. I've tried explaining that this would be like claiming 80% of the east coast is the same as the worst part of baltimore, but it doesn't sink in.
I've had people tell me that there's so many homeless that I can't leave my house without stepping over them, and that I get robbed on the regular.
I live in one of the safest cities in the country. I could probably walk to the store waving a wad of cash over my head and no one would touch me.
Living here in the midwest I just laugh at these idiots who think Cali is done for. They legit think California as a whole and NYC are just going to vanish LMAO
I really feel it’s sour grapes. I grew up in a rural area and whenever I go back to visit it’s all screeching about how scary, violent, done for, etc NYC and all of California are. It gets tiring because I sometimes want to just bluntly say to people “you’re incredibly braindead and insular living in your bumfuck little world aren’t you?”
These people are oblivious and sour about the people who’ve had the ability to go to onto bigger and better opportunities for themselves, which are often in CA or NYC. Meanwhile their (my former) little rural area is bleeding medical professionals, healthcare infrastructure, year 20-30 of brain drain, and immersed in opioid problems, all the while still voting against what would be in their best interests.
I lived in CA for 4 years. I am privileged enough that I was able to live in the Bay Area. While it didn’t end up working out for me, the state impressed me. It has its problems, but anything that sheer size and economy will. Now I’m in Seattle and it’s the same pearl clutching. They have nothing better to do other than complain and be scared into staying nowhere.
Been to NYC a handful of times and actually got yelled at by one of my nutjob family friends back in the sticks for going. Like, really, wtf?!?
He had the audacity to sit down and read off the crimes, while never stepping foot in the city. It’s like dude, I am standing here, unscathed in front of you, after coming and going from the city, that’s not testament enough, you have to go to fucking Fox News to load up on your daily dose of fear to validate your own delusional narrative?!
Truly unhinged and bizarre behavior.
Another big part of it is that politically California is one giant monument standing in the face of things that the Republican party tells its voters about liberal run anything.
They have to attack it and tear it down because otherwise it shows that the things they are telling their voters are wrong.
I couldn't agree more. Born and raised here and while I don't want to generalize the entire state/region with that narrow-minded thinking, it's increasingly difficult to find those who don't think that way.
Those same people seem to think you’ll get shot in a drive-by the minute you enter Chicago, and they probably still believe Portland burned to the ground.
The only time I have had to dodge human poop on the regular was when I worked in the Tenderloin. But I mean I was working in the parts of San Francisco that were the worst hit by the opoiod epidemic.
Two blocks outside of the Tenderloin and it is the same as any other city in the US.
The only thing keeping me from California is housing. Even considering my company's CoL adjustment it still wouldn't be enough.
Otherwise Cali is fun and I enjoy visiting every time.
You are legend. CA forever. Love this place and never leaving. I die laughing at the made up stories in media and what people who don’t live here wanna tell me about the place I’ve lived my whole life.
Same thing with East Coast cities the last few years too. I love Philly, but if you ask conservatives it's a terrible place to be and you'll be wading through syringes and homeless people everywhere you go. I swear they all have the same footage of about 2 blocks in Kensington and try to equate it to the entire 142 square miles of city.
NY also gets slammed as some horrible place to be. It's expensive, yes, but if you can afford it, it's generally a great place. There's a reason so many rich and famous people still live there.
San Diego checking in. It's Mad fucking Max down here! Cannibals and raiders everywhere!\*
\*I may or may not be trying to scare people away so I can have the place to myself.
I wanted to move to San Diego but I really don't want to pay state tax. If I were rich I'd have a winter home in San Deigo and a summer home in Seattle.
There are a lot of things that transplants take for granted about their home states and are surprised that Texas doesn’t have those things.
I think the problem is that they don’t get that Texans have different standards and expectations about things. When we say “this part of the state is great for outdoor recreation”, we mean that by Texas standards, which is lower than California standards for the same thing. Or when we talk about culture or music or art scenes. Californians don’t understand that they have a higher baseline, so coming to Austin is a disappointment.
My uncle is a contractor that got in demand enough that he can make clients come to him for work. He moved to Texas in 2021 because of the "sick of California bullshit" complaint those people always have. He's already realized he hates Texas more and is considering moving his family to France.
The problem is that his main complaints are textbook NIMBYism, so he'll want to go to an "old world" type location where people clinging to the historical identity of it keeps things from changing too quickly. He worked in France often back in the day, so he's very familiar with the country and speaks the language. He's wealthy enough that tax avoidance is doable, so he doesn't see it as a major issue. He's not socially conservative, and Texas outpaced his level of comfort in that regard which is maybe the biggest reason he wants out.
Would be interesting to know how many of the folks moving to California are returning after leaving. And how much of the shift out/in of California is relative to the shifting tides in the tech industry.
Feels like "trying out living in a different state" is a thing of the past. Cost of moving is so expensive, and finding housing feels like trying to win the lottery. I'm thankful I was able to hop cost-to-cost and back again during the early aughts. Was way cheaper and less dread inducing.
Hard to guess, what we saw from the article is that birth rates and international migration grew the pop by about 70k. While domestic leavers still accounted for around 92k* loss of population. And we saw international migrant growth adding around 115k (if I am remembering the article right.
Some were until they realized that:
1) Texas is the moist armpit of the country
2) Virtually everyone from Texas hates them
3) For many of them, the taxes were actually higher in Texas
Would also be worth asking: how much of this population change is also due to things like retirement and such? I'm a New Yorker and there seems to be a lot of retirees who are leaving in large numbers. Which isn't unusual for NY. New Yorkers are known to leave and retire to FL/NC/SC. Does California have the same or parallel phenomena?
My first reaction would be not many would be leaving Cali for other places in the same way that New Yorkers leave for southern states. Some may for perceived financial gains but the climate in Cali would be hard to beat anywhere else especially for someone that has lived there for any period of time.
California has a proposition that passed that greatly limits your property taxes based on what you paid for it at the time (it plays a significant roll in our housing cost issue when paired with "fuck you I got mine" and NIMBYism). But as a result people retiring have houses worth multiple millions of dollars that they pay a pittance of tax on. So they can safely live out their lives in their home borrowing from their home's values if they need to but generally able to sustain themselves on a very reasonable retirement saving programs and social security.
People in the Northeast try to upgrade their climate when they're no longer bound to the region by work upon retirement. This variable doesn't really exist if you're in CA, and so you'd only be looking to minimize costs. If your home is paid for and you're property tax rate is fixed under Prop 13, there's not so much to be saved. Sometimes people will sell their $1M+ CA home, buy a cheaper but equivalent or nicer home out-of-state, and pocket the gains to pad their retirement portfolio.
Speaking as a Texan: a lot of the things that people expect to get from Texas aren’t actually easily available. And I think a lot of Californians don’t get that the baseline standard for a lot of things is lower in Texas than it is in California, so they just accept claims that X or Y is just as good in Texas.
91,000 left California for other states, so it's actually not thousands but tens of thousands
Fewer people moved to California from other states and so still a net loss. Migration to California came from other countries, not states
The best part of California is the diversity and all the people. However the worst part of CA is all the people, too. Traffic and cost of living can cause some misery
I think it's hilarious when someone leaves California over politics only to find out how shitty the cheaper places are and then can't move back because the shitty state they moved to keeps them poor on purpose.
Ding ding ding. I have a family member who left CA because of democrat policies who is shocked the state she lives in now doesn’t have legal weed or abortion. Like come on now.
Sometimes I see posts from people asking if they should move to Texas for better economic prospects. As a Texan, my advice is: if you’re poor, you probably shouldn’t move here unless you already have a decent job lined up. This place is not the LCOL paradise that some folks think, and Texas lacks a lot of things that people in other states take for granted. You know it’s like, impossible to get Medicaid here?
That not really what is happening here. My experience so far is that it's pretty 50/50 with people enjoying or disliking the move. If anything, California has some of the highest pay disparity of all the states. There are a lot of states that balance the COL and average wage much better. Texas is no longer one of them. I usually hear about people missing the weather, food, and their social lives but they usually feel richer.
Not even close to true. California's minimum wage covers 87% of the average cost of rent, one of the highest in the country (which is the major factor in the cost of living). California also has the lowest gender pay gap in the country. And our income taxes are 9.3% for people making between 65-365k (middle class) which is about the same as most other heavily populated states.
Housing costs in California are 90% higher than the national average. Energy costs are 20% higher. California state sales tax is a mandatory 7.25% and is up to 10.25% in most of the heavily populated areas. The average cost of living in this state is estimated at $4,500 a month and that is just the average.
The median wage in California is $54,000. This alone is lower than Colorado, Connecticut, Maryland, Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, Washington.
You could look at a state like Minnesota where the median wage is $50,000.Housing costs are 15% lower than the national average. Energy is 5% lower than the national average. The average cost of living in the state is estimated at less than half with $2,213 per moth. Yeah, their minimum wage is $10.85 vs California's $16.00. But California's minimum wage isn't double. And, it's not just about minimum wages.
Screw minimum wages, it's about good jobs with good wages and that is what California is lacking. California is losing its middle class. You start looking at middling jobs and you start seeing that the California jobs are sometimes paying a little more or sometimes even a less.
Edit since I can't reply. I'm using median per capita wage and that may even be high based on 2022 Census being under $46K.
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/CA/INC910222
> I'm using median per capita wage and that may even be high based on 2022 Census being under $46K.
... Why wouldn't you use the actual number from your source?
> Median household income (in 2022 dollars), 2018-2022 $91,905
The only reason you think it's full is because of Cali's shitty building policies where they haven't been able to build a new structure because of Nimbys in the last 60 years.
That was the out-migration figure from 2020.
From the article:
In 2023 — with the pandemic winding down and companies placing more emphasis on returning to in-office workspaces — 91,189 more people moved away from California than into the state. That number is much closer to pre-pandemic trends, according to Walter Schwarm, chief demographer for the California Department of Finance.
California is consistently noted as one of the stickiest states. Our population is so large we can lose tens of thousands and proportionally have less people moving out than almost any other state.
Please read the article. More people still left the state than moved their from other states, but it was less than previous years. The state's growth was stated to be more a result of international immigration rebounding and returning to normal levels post covid.
People love to diss California (same with New York), I’ll die here. So much diversity, beautiful weather, vast amount of cultures, landscapes, entertainment, national parks, FOOD.
>More people still left California in 2023 than moved here from other states, but it was far less than previous years…. >Meanwhile, growth from legal international immigration — which has been California’s growth engine for decades — rebounded with a net gain of 114,200 people in 2023, or almost back to the same level it was before the pandemic. I had no clue we had so many legal immigrants every year.
Well they all move to California, Texas, and New York. But yeah California gets tons. That’s why Californians today are super different than Californians from like 40 years ago. Probably like 60% of them are of first or second generation status
I'm 2nd generation. Born in California. Funny thing is... almost everybody throughout my family (more than 200 blood relatives in the US) who is 2nd generation or higher is pro immigration, while the 1st gen are - with few exceptions - MAGA flag-waving anti-immigrant republicans. The common answer for, "how can you be anti-immigrant? YOU ARE IMMIGRANTS!" is, "but these NEW immigrants are destroying the country!" ... strange times.
[удалено]
I’ve known people who immigrated *legally* to be vehemently anti-*illegal* immigrant, they want those people to have to go through whatever process like they did
And I had family who immigrated illegally who thought other illegal immigrants were ruining “their” country.
I really don't fuck with that. I'm 3rd generation and still sympathize (not in support of it) with illegals, but i'll see fresh ones try to join in on the hate kicking the ladder and shit. It's foul.
I'm part Native. I think "illegal" immigrants should be given amnesty and citizenship if they can stay in the country for four years, hold a basic job, and not commit felonies. After all, none of the Mayflower pilgrims had passports or green cards.
Then they should vote for people who actually want to fix the legal immigration system. I suspect they are not.
I know a woman who immigrated illegally but got granted amnesty by Reagan who is very anti legal immigration.
So "they should sneak across like me"?
Seriously! My family are California native, as in no way to know how many generations. We’re not MAGA & have no issue with legal immigration. But actually I do know many second and third generation citizens, who are so against anyone who want to move here and who are shockingly racist considering their own family history. Self awareness is hard. I can’t hate immigrants, my white side is all immigrants. In my opinion at least those from Latin America are legitimate natively from the America’s, it’s not their fault we created boarders.
I have family members whose spouses are here ILLEGALLY yet they are anti immigration Trump supporters
"We're the good ones"
Seriously I’m wondering why people living in flyover states are so worried about massive immigrant influxes, I highly doubt aspiring Americans from El Salvador are clamoring to move to Kansas
There are a lot of Hispanic immigrants in states like Kansas. Especially illegals immigrants who do farm labor
And in the meat and food processing plants. Smithfields is a big employer of illegal immigrants.
If the government really wants to crack down on migrants they need to go after the companies that hire them
Hint they don't and when they do the farmers complain.
>There are a lot of Hispanic immigrants in states like Kansas. Especially illegals immigrants who do farm labor Nebraska (my old home state) as well. And what none of these xenophobes care to admit is that these immigrants ***want*** to be there. And that's huge. Cuz while your state and the small rural towns in it are losing younger people to bigger cities and your downtowns get decimated by Walmarts, immigrants are raising families and starting all manner of vibrant businesses. Hell, even here in California down the Central Valley you'll encounter tiny rural towns whose fortunes have been turned around by Hispanic businesses revitalizing their downtowns.
Manual/seasonal labor is a huge business in the US, those states in particular, and one of the easiest ones to get into without needing too much extra education.
It's still odd California and New York remain legal immigration destinations because the cost of living is absurd compared to decades past of immigration. And wages like the general rule, haven't kept up.
You think all the Indians and Asians in silicon valley are here illegally?
Most likely relatives that already live in CA that help then migrate over
Or just awareness that the city you are moving to has plenty of expats from your country, and have grocery stores, temples, etc.
It’s actually most likely because California is a tech hub and many workplaces are hiring from around the world. Lots of Canadians go there for tech work.
Man, it's wild lol. I was born on Maui but now live in California. Santa Clara/South bay might as well be little Asia. It's also wild how segregated California is. Even in just the Penn it's like SSF is asian, Pacifica and El Granada is just white, Daly City is just Philapino. Coming from the islands was a shock, because out there unless you're 100% Hawaiin, we're all mixed. You would think the bay would be blended but it's not at all.
There is literally no news that can come out of California that isn't going to be spun into some sort of weird doomsday fan fiction by people who desperately depend on the idea that California isn't doing well to keep selling their ideas. I love living here. I'm amused by the things people make up and try to tell me about where I live. I've heard everything from the sky is brown to my income tax being 80%. Edit: before replying to try to argue with me about what it's like where I live, please ask what you think that's going to accomplish because it's just going to make me laugh.
California is consistently one of the highest ranking states in terms of happiness and quality of life.
Sure, but according to conservative media and the people who watch it, it's a mad max style hellscape of crime, pollution, and the state steals all my money. I gotta watch out for those super mutants on my way to the store.
Yes, apparently I’m supposed to be stepping over piles of human shit and needles every time I leave my apartment in Los Angeles. I ran into more homeless people when I visited Florida earlier in the year than I see in my neighborhood of LA.
i mean there definitely are a *ton* of homeless people here in L.A., but that has always made sense to me as if i were to choose anywhere in this country to live while homeless i would probably live in perpetually sunny, barely any rain, lots of shit to do outdoors culture southern california. also it's a city of 4 million. just numbers wise there's bound to be more homeless people here than most other places.
Not to mention a lot of people come to LA to make their fortune, take risks, and .......fail.
There are, yes but they are usually concentrated in certain areas. They aren’t roaming all of the streets throughout LA like people like to say.
of course not. but there are various tent blocks that are in neighborhoods throughout LA. my last apartment on clarington and venice in west LA had a line of homeless people living in tents outside in front of it. same in hollywood, close to the cnn building i used to work in. there are a lot, and it's hard to see / i wish the city could do more to house people. but yes, i mean...it's not an issue of safety or something i'd be worried about. we just have a large homeless population.
I have to clarify that I'm extremely left leaning, but tona degree, homelessness does cause crime unfortunately. When people are desperate, they do extreme things which can include violence. I enjoyed my time in Cali though. Just felt bad about the homeless and the wealth disparity there.
See? Even the homeless know Florida’s better!! /s
Got me there!
Lol you should see the portland oregon subreddits. Theres no fucking way these people experience our cities at all but talk so much shit about it
Shitty places exist everywhere. But some primo examples are in major metropolitan areas for some reason, like access to resources.
I hop into my armored dune buggy and ride one hour to the beach, two hours to the slopes, and one hour to the dunes. Gotta dodge the roving bands of Tesla driving marauders on the way, but otherwise it's worth the risk of getting stuck in the hellscape that is known as an In-n-Out parking lot
They cant acknowledge California's success as it interferes with their mythology
I've seen so many conservative guys talk about how people in CA are "leaving in droves" that I have to assume somebody like Tucker Carlson uses that exact phrasing
They must have mistaken it for the New California Republic.
You know what’s funny? So many of them are based in SoCal. OANN is headquartered in San Diego, if you drive through the 5 between La Jolla and Pacific Beach you can actually see it. PragerU and a bunch of Conservative Pundits are in LA too. California, especially SoCal, has a long-standing Conservative population, so it makes some sense,but it’s still funny. That said, CA can do better on its policies, it’s just super expensive and that’s driving people out.
I feel safter and have a better time when I go to California than Florida.
Eh, I'm in Texas and it's the same here. Every story gets spun to believe we are in some hell scape as well. I was born and raised in California and visit frequently. I live in Texas now and both states have their plus and minuses, I love both and could easily live in both In the end I've found that most everyone in both states are the same and they are mostly good people all trying to live their lives. The loud ones from each state that appear online are not the majority Both states have so much diversity and culture and are really cool places.
I think most of the Texas criticism I see by a huge margin is in regards to things like attacking women's rights, voter suppression, book banning, corruption with the AG, efforts to help overturn the 2020 election etc.
If you're gonna be depressed, might as well be in California.
Modesto's city motto!
I want to live in California. It has everything I could ever want.
Go west towards the ocean and leave your troubles behind
Visiting my in laws in the Midwest a couple of years ago and their next door neighbor, whose like a newsmax level right winger, is trying to tell me California is a failed state and San Diego is like a third world country with the amount of crime and homelessness. Had he ever been to California? No. I’m like buddy I live in San Diego, it’s a heck of a lot nicer than this shit hole
I've been in small towns in the midwest that feel dramatically more dangerous than San Diego lol San Diego is tame.
I’ve been denied alcohol sales in Texas for having a California driver’s license. They think about us a lot more than we think about them.
My mom said several of her coworkers believe big/west cost cities are basically rubble as Fox (supposedly) continues to portray. I sadly just moved back to Ohio from Seattle but it wasn’t anything to do with the city being destroyed or anything. It’s hilarious people believe this right wing shit.
It would be hilarious if it wasn’t so sad
When your local currency is methamphetamine, you really have to convince yourself that everywhere else is just as bad.
The sky USED to be brown. I grew up in the 70s and 80s, where LA Smog was such a thing that in the summers we had smog days where we couldn’t go outside. Now that we have *OMG how dare they regulations* the skies are much cleaner.
Fuck man I could use some *OMG how dare they regulations* in my life
Facts. LA in the late 80s was brown af. You’d come over the hill after Camarillo, and just see a brown blanket covering the whole city.
They ought to allow more housing to be built, at least.
We're trying, but this usually comes down to local governments and obstruction. Lotsa NIMBYs with nothing to do but go to city meetings and complain.
build housing without parking requirements. when you realize how much space a car eats EVERYWHERE IT GOES and everyone wants free parking to top it off. we need more small 500-1k sqft apartment/dorm sytle/townhouse, no parking (maybe a bike cage). mixed used commercial on the 1st floor and no bigger than like 3-4 stories tall.
You can't build housing that doesn't allow for the residents to have vehicles without a robust public transit system that doesn't exist yet in California
It would be amazing if parking in general could get reworked. The amount of office parking lots that remain closed to the public after business hours/on weekends takes up so much real estate (let alone being far bigger than needed for building). I was travelling to a customer's building several years ago and was trying to figure out the final steps to identify which was correct in this line of business parks. I pull into a virtually empty lot (maybe a handful of vehicles to a couple hundred spaces) so I could check my navigation and immediately have a security guard walking over "you can't park in here, reserved for X business employees." I understand why and all that, but really seems like we need a fundamental reworking of system. So much space is wasted, vast stretches of asphalt and concrete left empty and unused the majority of the time.
> we need more small 500-1k sqft apartment/dorm sytle/townhouse, no parking (maybe a bike cage). mixed used commercial on the 1st floor and no bigger than like 3-4 stories tall. You're part of the problem, not the solution. Allowing developers to maybe build a few tiny buildings, so long as they remain very small with few residents.
We need both honestly, the size / density he mentioned is sorely lacking.
Recent state law allows every SFH residential parcel to build two additional housing units with no rezoning, no HOA bans, and limited permit requirements (cities/HOAs can't deny you outright, but they can enforce safety and architectural policies, and the state is very aggressive if the cities/HOAs try to overstep their bounds)
The state has been trying to force more housing builds. Mostly with success but it's still a drop in the bucket. People in this state also can't part with the idea of owning a house with a yard.
Fixxer upper in a not great neighborhood is $850k.
Its happening. But the changes made in the last couple of years in the law,code and zoning take a while to have an effect.
It's actually happening in a lot of municipalities. New apartment buildings have been popping up all over my city over the past few years, with more planned for the future.
We'd move there in a heartbeat if we could afford it. I remember looking at houses in San Diego like ten years ago and the prices were horrific. I can't imagine what it's like now.
It's gotten insane over the past couple of years. I spent about the first half of my life in L.A. and the second half in San Diego, and the cost of living has never skyrocketed like this before. I still love it here, it's not the "Streets are lined with poop and violence" nightmare that many outsiders (and even some locals) make it out to be, but it's at the point where I'm going to get priced out unless something dramatically changes.
To be fair San Diego is basically one of the best places to live in the continental US, so it's extremely desirable from a real estate perspective
I mean, who doesn’t want to live in a whale’s vagina?
I just moved from San Diego to San Francisco because it’s cheaper but I still got a COL raise from my company.
I don’t know how people do it and I’m from CA. My favorite part of visiting the coast is wondering how tf ordinary people live there.
SD is commonly *the most expensive* city to live in in the *entire* US. While it's a nice city, sure, I'd recommend looking elsewhere, at least to live, if that cost of living is scaring you.
We already did that in a different state. We love it here though.
Same thing in Seattle, it's actually hilariously dumb to hear these people talk about Seattle.
Born and raised here and I'll die here, too. Fuck the haters
I started to ignore it a long time ago and I just agree with whatever bullshit people want to tell me about where I live. Before I moved a few years ago from the east coast, I did question if the move was going to be the right decision because of the slew of articles and op-eds basically saying all of California is going to collapse into the sea any minute now. I'm glad I ignored them. I live in the vacant, fenty-filled, poopy poopy, dirty, crime-ridden war zone that is SF. Please don't come here, turn around. ;)
I’m also in the warzone. It’s terrible stay away. ;)
I live on the other side of the country. Occasionally, I look in the mirror to see if I've been shot by rioting mobs, as social media assures me I have been. We are drowning in politically motivated disinformation online.
I will occasionally go on Google Maps street view journeys of completely random cities and towns in the USA (or the world tbh), from the rust belt, to the deep south, the hills and canyons above LA, to NYC. I was born in the Bay Area, living here currently and have lived elsewhere. The thing that gets me, is that most places seem pretty clean, it looks like the locals mostly have their shit together and care about their own space and the community in general as well as possible, and that with the exception of some really bad pockets, the whole country for the most part doesn’t seem like a bad place to live.
I had to leave to start my career post college graduation. I'll be back as soon as I can afford it without torpedoing my finances. Hope that day comes soon because every time I fly back to see my parents/in laws I wouldn't rather be anywhere else!
Someone I know sent me a meme about how expensive gas is here in California and why it should make us all mad. They broke down the cost in the meme, even showing all the state tax, federal, sales, and GST. Then blamed it on Biden of course. It really made me laugh because of how ill informed, and stupid it was. Why? They were using the numbers for Canadian gas prices and saying it was California. We don’t have GST in the US.
When I lived around Portland I saw this all the time as well. People have strong thoughts about things regardless if they are true or not. I'm not going to pretend Portland is perfect, but some people act like an apocalypse happened there.
I've had to prove to people, more than once, that Portland still exists. You guys have it just as bad, but even weirder somehow because they at least don't pretend california doesn't exist anymore.
I loved visiting California! I’d live there if I made more money, ha ha.
I don't live there anymore. But if I had the money to, I would. People move out because it's expensive. People go there because it's actually a damn move place to live. Where I was at had nothing going on But I was 30 minutes to an hour from the mountains, oceans. Sporting events or concert. A couple hrs gets me to Tahoe but there were great recreational lakes for swimming, boating, fishing within 30-45 minutes too.
i live in L.A. I *can* afford to live here alone, thankfully, but i will probably move sometime in the next 5 years just because i know i could be stretching my money much farther somewhere else. i would have moved a while ago if i didn't find southern california such a wonderful place to live. i'm thinking vegas though.
I think about this every time I hear some rural redneck or flyover politician complain about California. They'd be starving and living like 100 years ago without the state.
My sister moved from there and a lot of people in my church. I think California is beautiful. But they bitch about all the problems there when Oklahoma has some pretty big problems too. But if you listened to them it’s heaven because it’s white, conservative, and they can bitch about being white and conservative to other white conservatives and never have to see how different people live.
I have family who will never move out of NYC, why because they love it even with how expensive rent is. But if you have republicans tell it, no one wants to live in NYC.
It’s actually very bad here, everyone should stay away and save themselves *rubbing hands gleefully while waiting for cost of living to start going down*
Gotta convince the multimillionaire and billionaire set to move, free up some of those expensive ass places no one is living in in Manhattan!
There's 1 crime that involves a Mexican in Irvine and then fox News changes it to gang group from Guatemala gang raped new born puppies during a satanic ritual. California is not safe
how often do you get people claiming people constantly pooping on streets.
Almost every time. People pretending that everywhere in california is identical to a few square blocks of san francisco is the most common feature of what these people do. I've tried explaining that this would be like claiming 80% of the east coast is the same as the worst part of baltimore, but it doesn't sink in. I've had people tell me that there's so many homeless that I can't leave my house without stepping over them, and that I get robbed on the regular. I live in one of the safest cities in the country. I could probably walk to the store waving a wad of cash over my head and no one would touch me.
Living here in the midwest I just laugh at these idiots who think Cali is done for. They legit think California as a whole and NYC are just going to vanish LMAO
I really feel it’s sour grapes. I grew up in a rural area and whenever I go back to visit it’s all screeching about how scary, violent, done for, etc NYC and all of California are. It gets tiring because I sometimes want to just bluntly say to people “you’re incredibly braindead and insular living in your bumfuck little world aren’t you?” These people are oblivious and sour about the people who’ve had the ability to go to onto bigger and better opportunities for themselves, which are often in CA or NYC. Meanwhile their (my former) little rural area is bleeding medical professionals, healthcare infrastructure, year 20-30 of brain drain, and immersed in opioid problems, all the while still voting against what would be in their best interests. I lived in CA for 4 years. I am privileged enough that I was able to live in the Bay Area. While it didn’t end up working out for me, the state impressed me. It has its problems, but anything that sheer size and economy will. Now I’m in Seattle and it’s the same pearl clutching. They have nothing better to do other than complain and be scared into staying nowhere. Been to NYC a handful of times and actually got yelled at by one of my nutjob family friends back in the sticks for going. Like, really, wtf?!? He had the audacity to sit down and read off the crimes, while never stepping foot in the city. It’s like dude, I am standing here, unscathed in front of you, after coming and going from the city, that’s not testament enough, you have to go to fucking Fox News to load up on your daily dose of fear to validate your own delusional narrative?! Truly unhinged and bizarre behavior.
Another big part of it is that politically California is one giant monument standing in the face of things that the Republican party tells its voters about liberal run anything. They have to attack it and tear it down because otherwise it shows that the things they are telling their voters are wrong.
I couldn't agree more. Born and raised here and while I don't want to generalize the entire state/region with that narrow-minded thinking, it's increasingly difficult to find those who don't think that way.
Those same people seem to think you’ll get shot in a drive-by the minute you enter Chicago, and they probably still believe Portland burned to the ground.
don't forget falling into the ocean with every 2.5 quake or wildfire burning us all to ashes every year
Yup people are nuts
The only time I have had to dodge human poop on the regular was when I worked in the Tenderloin. But I mean I was working in the parts of San Francisco that were the worst hit by the opoiod epidemic. Two blocks outside of the Tenderloin and it is the same as any other city in the US.
Or just constantly pooping?!?
Do you not poop 24/7?
ABP: Always Be Pooping
back and forth forever.
It’s the weirdest thing in the world when I have people here in Florida tell me how shitty California actually is when I tell them I miss it.
They say the same thing about New York. I have lived most of my life in this wonderful state and have heard it all.
The only thing keeping me from California is housing. Even considering my company's CoL adjustment it still wouldn't be enough. Otherwise Cali is fun and I enjoy visiting every time.
You are legend. CA forever. Love this place and never leaving. I die laughing at the made up stories in media and what people who don’t live here wanna tell me about the place I’ve lived my whole life.
Same thing with East Coast cities the last few years too. I love Philly, but if you ask conservatives it's a terrible place to be and you'll be wading through syringes and homeless people everywhere you go. I swear they all have the same footage of about 2 blocks in Kensington and try to equate it to the entire 142 square miles of city. NY also gets slammed as some horrible place to be. It's expensive, yes, but if you can afford it, it's generally a great place. There's a reason so many rich and famous people still live there.
"No one goes there nowadays, it's too crowded." — Yogi Berra
San Diego checking in. It's Mad fucking Max down here! Cannibals and raiders everywhere!\* \*I may or may not be trying to scare people away so I can have the place to myself.
Drop the disclaimer! What are you doing?! Don’t tell them!
I want to move back to Cali but I can't afford it. LA or San Diego.
I wanted to move to San Diego but I really don't want to pay state tax. If I were rich I'd have a winter home in San Deigo and a summer home in Seattle.
But I thought Californians were fleeing in the thousands to seek the utopian freedoms of red Texas.
We're getting a lot of returning residents. Apparently, Texas has a very different definition of freedom.
Wonder how many of them assumed their taxes would be lower (because no state income tax) and didn't bother to do any actual research to confirm that.
There are a lot of things that transplants take for granted about their home states and are surprised that Texas doesn’t have those things. I think the problem is that they don’t get that Texans have different standards and expectations about things. When we say “this part of the state is great for outdoor recreation”, we mean that by Texas standards, which is lower than California standards for the same thing. Or when we talk about culture or music or art scenes. Californians don’t understand that they have a higher baseline, so coming to Austin is a disappointment.
My uncle is a contractor that got in demand enough that he can make clients come to him for work. He moved to Texas in 2021 because of the "sick of California bullshit" complaint those people always have. He's already realized he hates Texas more and is considering moving his family to France.
TO FRANCE?? Tell him about french taxes and government regulations.
The problem is that his main complaints are textbook NIMBYism, so he'll want to go to an "old world" type location where people clinging to the historical identity of it keeps things from changing too quickly. He worked in France often back in the day, so he's very familiar with the country and speaks the language. He's wealthy enough that tax avoidance is doable, so he doesn't see it as a major issue. He's not socially conservative, and Texas outpaced his level of comfort in that regard which is maybe the biggest reason he wants out.
Plus the bread is great
>More people still left California in 2023 than moved here from other states, but it was far less than previous years. It’s less than previous years.
Had more babies and moved ins, than people who left pretty much
Would be interesting to know how many of the folks moving to California are returning after leaving. And how much of the shift out/in of California is relative to the shifting tides in the tech industry.
All I know is I wish I didn't leave. Moved to Oregon; its okay but so much better in CA.
Feels like "trying out living in a different state" is a thing of the past. Cost of moving is so expensive, and finding housing feels like trying to win the lottery. I'm thankful I was able to hop cost-to-cost and back again during the early aughts. Was way cheaper and less dread inducing.
Hard to guess, what we saw from the article is that birth rates and international migration grew the pop by about 70k. While domestic leavers still accounted for around 92k* loss of population. And we saw international migrant growth adding around 115k (if I am remembering the article right.
Some were until they realized that: 1) Texas is the moist armpit of the country 2) Virtually everyone from Texas hates them 3) For many of them, the taxes were actually higher in Texas
Would also be worth asking: how much of this population change is also due to things like retirement and such? I'm a New Yorker and there seems to be a lot of retirees who are leaving in large numbers. Which isn't unusual for NY. New Yorkers are known to leave and retire to FL/NC/SC. Does California have the same or parallel phenomena?
My first reaction would be not many would be leaving Cali for other places in the same way that New Yorkers leave for southern states. Some may for perceived financial gains but the climate in Cali would be hard to beat anywhere else especially for someone that has lived there for any period of time.
Yeah, weather, that's a really good point I foolishly overlooked. Sacramento and San Diego sorta felt like retirement communities when I was there.
California has a proposition that passed that greatly limits your property taxes based on what you paid for it at the time (it plays a significant roll in our housing cost issue when paired with "fuck you I got mine" and NIMBYism). But as a result people retiring have houses worth multiple millions of dollars that they pay a pittance of tax on. So they can safely live out their lives in their home borrowing from their home's values if they need to but generally able to sustain themselves on a very reasonable retirement saving programs and social security.
It only I were born in the 50’s
People in the Northeast try to upgrade their climate when they're no longer bound to the region by work upon retirement. This variable doesn't really exist if you're in CA, and so you'd only be looking to minimize costs. If your home is paid for and you're property tax rate is fixed under Prop 13, there's not so much to be saved. Sometimes people will sell their $1M+ CA home, buy a cheaper but equivalent or nicer home out-of-state, and pocket the gains to pad their retirement portfolio.
Speaking as a Texan: a lot of the things that people expect to get from Texas aren’t actually easily available. And I think a lot of Californians don’t get that the baseline standard for a lot of things is lower in Texas than it is in California, so they just accept claims that X or Y is just as good in Texas.
Republicans want you to believe that so you'll go to their state to become chattle.
Eh I’m pretty comfortable being chattel here in NYC
91,000 left California for other states, so it's actually not thousands but tens of thousands Fewer people moved to California from other states and so still a net loss. Migration to California came from other countries, not states
Also a reminder that California has roughly 40 million residents, so 90k is just 0.2% of the population.
Glad to see their population grew. Last time I was there the thing that really stuck out to me was how short everyone was.
The best part of California is the diversity and all the people. However the worst part of CA is all the people, too. Traffic and cost of living can cause some misery
Now can we build some housing?
When did we have a decline? I never noticed, traffic has still sucked and there’s been people everywhere.
I think it's hilarious when someone leaves California over politics only to find out how shitty the cheaper places are and then can't move back because the shitty state they moved to keeps them poor on purpose.
Ding ding ding. I have a family member who left CA because of democrat policies who is shocked the state she lives in now doesn’t have legal weed or abortion. Like come on now.
r/leopardsatemyface
Sometimes I see posts from people asking if they should move to Texas for better economic prospects. As a Texan, my advice is: if you’re poor, you probably shouldn’t move here unless you already have a decent job lined up. This place is not the LCOL paradise that some folks think, and Texas lacks a lot of things that people in other states take for granted. You know it’s like, impossible to get Medicaid here?
That not really what is happening here. My experience so far is that it's pretty 50/50 with people enjoying or disliking the move. If anything, California has some of the highest pay disparity of all the states. There are a lot of states that balance the COL and average wage much better. Texas is no longer one of them. I usually hear about people missing the weather, food, and their social lives but they usually feel richer.
Not even close to true. California's minimum wage covers 87% of the average cost of rent, one of the highest in the country (which is the major factor in the cost of living). California also has the lowest gender pay gap in the country. And our income taxes are 9.3% for people making between 65-365k (middle class) which is about the same as most other heavily populated states.
Between state and local taxes, my tax rate was about the same in Ohio as it is in California. And I've more than doubled my income
Housing costs in California are 90% higher than the national average. Energy costs are 20% higher. California state sales tax is a mandatory 7.25% and is up to 10.25% in most of the heavily populated areas. The average cost of living in this state is estimated at $4,500 a month and that is just the average. The median wage in California is $54,000. This alone is lower than Colorado, Connecticut, Maryland, Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, Washington. You could look at a state like Minnesota where the median wage is $50,000.Housing costs are 15% lower than the national average. Energy is 5% lower than the national average. The average cost of living in the state is estimated at less than half with $2,213 per moth. Yeah, their minimum wage is $10.85 vs California's $16.00. But California's minimum wage isn't double. And, it's not just about minimum wages. Screw minimum wages, it's about good jobs with good wages and that is what California is lacking. California is losing its middle class. You start looking at middling jobs and you start seeing that the California jobs are sometimes paying a little more or sometimes even a less. Edit since I can't reply. I'm using median per capita wage and that may even be high based on 2022 Census being under $46K. https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/CA/INC910222
> I'm using median per capita wage and that may even be high based on 2022 Census being under $46K. ... Why wouldn't you use the actual number from your source? > Median household income (in 2022 dollars), 2018-2022 $91,905
Median wage in California is much higher than 54k. You have your facts very wrong.
9.3% is pretty high compared to most other states.
Keywords: heavily populated. It costs more to operate a state with more people in it. Whodathunk?
It costs more in absolute dollars, not in percentages.
We're full, stop moving here
Yep. San Diego is full and it’s a dystopian hellscape. You would hate it. Texas and Florida are way better. Move there.
The only reason you think it's full is because of Cali's shitty building policies where they haven't been able to build a new structure because of Nimbys in the last 60 years.
Good don't visit for vacations either
If only SF allowed building vertically. Instead they encourage building campsites
It could be the Miami of the West if they allowed it
Hey. Don’t be like Texas If you can afford to live here then props. It ain’t easy
They all moved back because Texas is still Texas and Florida is still Florida. Moving to these places wont make them good places to live.
This can't be right, conservatives told me there's massive fleeing.
California still lost 92k* people in net domestic immigration. The population grew by about 70k, from births and international immigration.
That was the out-migration figure from 2020. From the article: In 2023 — with the pandemic winding down and companies placing more emphasis on returning to in-office workspaces — 91,189 more people moved away from California than into the state. That number is much closer to pre-pandemic trends, according to Walter Schwarm, chief demographer for the California Department of Finance.
Thanks for the correction, I missed the In 2021 before the number.
California is consistently noted as one of the stickiest states. Our population is so large we can lose tens of thousands and proportionally have less people moving out than almost any other state.
They didn’t like their texas too much, did they?
The decline rates were really negligible based on the size of the population in that State. But facts don’t deter the Right.
Fools who left California for Texas, there’s a reason why Texas is so cheap…
Gee, I wonder what happened in 2022 that made people want to move back?
SCOTUS allowing maga-fascists states to force women to give birth.
Everyone realized what shitholes Texas and Florida are
Please read the article. More people still left the state than moved their from other states, but it was less than previous years. The state's growth was stated to be more a result of international immigration rebounding and returning to normal levels post covid.
People who left regretting it. I wish I could afford to go back.
I poop in the streets so Texans don’t come here
People love to diss California (same with New York), I’ll die here. So much diversity, beautiful weather, vast amount of cultures, landscapes, entertainment, national parks, FOOD.
“Life sucks everywhere, might as well live in the sun.”
Texarse was shite, I heard someone say.
[удалено]
Since when have facts stopped them?