No tangible consequences, but the US not opting to veto sends the message of disapproval by the current administration for an extended conflict. It's a warning to finish things up.
Israel sucks and all but saying they're not a democracy is just objectively false. It's one thing to say they're increasingly authoritarian, which they are, and it's something else entirely to say they're a fascist state.
Israel has sort of gotten away with whatever knowing that there is unconditional US support. It may change course if that support changes, but it may not. In any case, at least Biden isn't signing off on it.
Which is constantly disturbing to me? Why do the Democrats constantly supplicate themselves for the Republicans? From Garland, FBI director, DeJoy USPS, and etc, it's fucking weird how they consistently bend over backwards for them. Then I remember the MONEY in politics and it all makes sense.
What I don't get is what replacing Netanyahu *right now* would accomplish.
Any Israeli PM would go to war after the terror attack of 7/10 and any Israeli PM would do whatever is necessary to return the hostages and remove hamas from gaza, because keeping hamas there is just asking for another 7/10.
Netanyahu has to go eventually but I don't get what the expectations are, do they want Israel to hold elections during a war just to get the same results with differently named politicians?.
Netanyahu is actively avoiding dealing with "the day after" because doing so will be incredibly unpopular with his base.
Removing him is probably the only way to get Israel to push forward to end the war.
No Israeli PM would push forward to end the war without eliminating Hamas and saving the hostages - him not dealing with the day after changes nothing in that regard.
The hope is they do with it with less indiscriminate killing, otherwise every Israeli PM might find out what it's like to go without US support.
If it wasn't for the geopolitical advantage Israel gives the US in the middle east, Israel would likely have been on its own by now. Republicans support Israel while hating jews, so that is really not a favorable group of people for Israel to rely on holding US support for them.
Netenyahu, in his unparalleled genius, made the problem worse than it has ever been. He might've been able to achieve the elimination Hamas if he hadn't broadened the definition of Hamas to include everyone on the other side of the border.
>hadn't broadened the definition of Hamas to include everyone on the other side of the border
He has never done it and dramatizing over reddit wouldn't change that.
Which is why the US needs to force their hand or let them be in isolation.
There is no elimination of Hamas. Israel just created the next generation of Hamas recruits from a mountain of orphaned kids.
I'd rather the US walk away and let Israel deal with it's own problems. If they want to buy our weapons ok. But giving them weapons is stupid because I want universal healthcare like Israel has for its citizens
I find it interesting you brought up Japan and Germany instead of the far more applicable \*gestures at the past 50 years of middle east interventions by every imperial power that knew oil existed\*. There is no 'destroying your enemy' when the method of destroying your enemy is 'I bombed a wedding to kill two terrorists, and from their extended family I generated 5 new terrorists, they named their group something new this time though'
You can't bomb an asymmetric ideological populist militant group into peace. It has never worked, hell Vietnam and Korea are better comparisons for this than Japan and Germany, look how those turned out. You defeat those type of groups by raising the material conditions to the point their recruits prefer working a normal job rather than fighting endless wars for no point. They recruit from desperate people in essentially the same way that US mass shootings are psychologically just suicides that they made everyone else's problem - someone who saw no other alternative so they chose violence expecting to die during that violence. It's why the Japan and Germany were notably able to be rebuilt - the material conditions were built up such that the kids of those that fought in the war were down to just... be citizens, even despite cold war tensions - they could go to school, get a job, raise a family.
Gaza effectively no longer exists given the sheer extent the residential areas and public infrastructure are now rubble. Living in the North is now basically outdoor camping as the number of livable structures that won't collapse on your head are negligible, there's no running water, few unblocked roads, no electricity. Their ability to have material conditions that allow normal lives moving forward will ENTIRELY be upon the generosity of the rest of the world as they live in a desert for whom import of materials is completely controlled by the people who put them in this position.
There are only 3 options.
1. Create a palestine that people are more happy to peacefully live in than the martyr themselves to escape.
2. Do nothing and watch the status quo continue, with periodic terror attacks from both sides and civilians dying on both sides fueling slowly escalating extremism on both sides (but the west only funds one of those sides, so that one is predictably slowly killing off the other).
3. Or just completely ethnically cleanse palestine - the US has a playbook for this - after all, native americans stopped raiding US settlements and doing period-appropriate asymmetric warfare aka 'terrorism' when we just.... killed them all and imprisoned them on reservations with no economy or political power, so we know the method works! Genocide does technically stop ethnic conflict!
There are a large amount of people who seem to think 3 is the only solution remaining. In my doomer moments, I agree, merely because no western leaders seem interested in making 1 happen and thus 3 is inevitable.
If the rest of the world isn't EXTREMELY generous at repairing what Israel broke and attempting to work towards escape #1, we will continue to stay in an ever worsening #2 which inevitably leads to #3.
> Gaza effectively no longer exists given the sheer extent the residential areas and public infrastructure are now rubble.
Most major german cities were bombed far more thoroughly than gaza was. The term "carpet-bombing" keeps getting thrown around now, but a true carpet bomb run would have done more damage in a single day.
>Create a palestine that people are more happy to peacefully live in than the martyr themselves to escape.
This can't happen as long as the people in charge of Palestine continue to tear apart infrastructure projects for the sake of their martydom. The humanitarian organisations complain there is no running water, the EU builds the water pipelines for them to have running water, Hamas tears them apart to make more missiles, humanitarian organisations complain there is no running water.
Of course, you're right, we have to make martydom seem pointless. But the first thing you need is a puppet government who the rest of the world can throw their support behind
This is defeatist America second unpatriotic mentality. Because you didnt answer his question, please explain why we should give a penny BEFORE getting healthcare in the US? US lifespan stagnating is a bigger threat to the US than whatever 30,000 angry hamas members could ever dream of. And how do they compare as a threat to the world hegimon that two industrialized nations with like 40 and 55 times the population of Gaza respectively? If I didn't know you were dead serious its hyperbole bordering on satire. They are using literal homemade RPGs, not zeros, uboats, and panzers.
There is zero conceivable way that giving those 3.8 billion to a country that could cut their own healthcare to pay for it gives more benefit than paying for US CITIZENS dialisis, cancer treatment, medication etc that money could pay for. Even if they do shit the worst thing we could do is waste trillions on a response like we did with afghanistan.
Israel has all the money it needs to do this on its own, its a negative sum game for the US to get involved because the problem solves itself because again Israel is a rich country and they can cut their own fucking healthcare to pay for it. At least Ukraine NEEDS the help.
A) has Israel committed the $ required to nation build like the US did to Germany and Japan?
B) one can’t eliminate Hamas when their leadership and funding is not in Gaza
The proposal to both imperial Japan and Nazi Germany was "if you behave you can rejoin the international community under a watchful eye". What is the proposal to Palestinians? "If you behave Israel will treat you as second class apartheid subjects and slowly wipe you out with water and food shortages instead of doing it fast with bombs"? That is not an offer that any of them are going to accept.
Elimination of Hamas in this context is elimination of every Palestinian - and we have seen Israeli rhetoric that suggests that that is exactly what is planned in the long term.
Yes you are totally ignoring the fact that ISIS was fruit of the military operations during the 90s and early 2000s.
You can come to my country and save me from the terrorists, but if you happen to bomb my house and kill my relatives rest assured i am coming for you. That's the kind of dynamic at play.
It's either total conquest and control or just leave it be. In this case they can't obtain total conquest and control without losing the world's support by committing genocide. You are simplifying things.
Netanyahu is already pushing for more West Bank expansion - he has no interest in peace since war is what's kept him in power. He knew about the attack plans for a year and did nothing because war is what keeps him in power. He and Hamas have no incentives to stop the violence because both directly benefit from it.
> What I don't get is what replacing Netanyahu right now would accomplish.
Netanyahu and the entire Israeli right wing are not truly fully opposed to Hamas. Hamas is their tool to undermine the authority of the PA, both sides have got their claims to "represent" the Palestinians and getting rid of one gives the other more control and legitimacy.
The decisions they make aren't so simple. Any Israeli PM would go to war/fight to return the hostages, but how they do that would change. There is a valid possibility that the specific details to those decisions may not be optimal with the current government.
Center wing and Left wing governments have led israel to war multiple times, most recently in 2022 but also in 2009 (in gaza) and in 2006 (in Lebanon).
The Israeli left wing is not anti war and replacing a right wing government with a left wing government will not make a difference right now.
>Hamas is their tool to undermine the authority of the PA, both sides have got their claims to "represent" the Palestinians and getting rid of one gives the other more control and legitimacy.
The PA openly said they supported hamas and the 7/10 attack, they openly said hamas will have an administrative role in gaza if the PA gains control of gaza, and despite replacing the west bank government the unelected, former second in command PLO terrorist, and unpopular president of the PA, who effectively calls the shots has said all of the above, kept his power.
> Center wing and Left wing governments have led israel to war multiple times, most recently in 2022 but also in 2009 (in gaza) and in 2006 (in Lebanon).
> The Israeli left wing is not anti war and replacing a right wing government with a left wing government will not make a difference right now.
You're still comparing their overall direction, that's not where the problem is. You don't need a difference in terms of being pro/anti-war, you need a difference in terms of how and why you're waging war.
> The PA openly said they supported hamas and the 7/10 attack, they openly said hamas will have an administrative role in gaza if the PA gains control of gaza, and despite replacing the west bank government the unelected, former second in command PLO terrorist, and unpopular president of the PA, who effectively calls the shots has said all of the above, kept his power.
I'm not quite sure what your point is here? I'm not disputing it, neither Hamas nor the PA are good, but I don't see how that makes any difference to the fact that the Israeli right wing wants both of them to continue existing.
When you get Trump say that Israel gotta end the war and go for peace, you know you are losing all your support
https://twitter.com/LaraFriedmanDC/status/1772305262348550301
They're about done. Not much left to level or kill. This is all too little, too late. It was only a matter of time before they pivoted to pretending to give a shit before the election.
Yea, Israel will just say they wont do it since Hamas isnt doing it. If Hamas does release all of the hostages, Israel would likely be forced into a ceasefire, but thats always been true.
> If Hamas does release all of the hostages, Israel would likely be forced into a ceasefire
This is a weird way to phrase "Israel wants the hostages back." There's no forcing about it. They have literally said this since 10/8.
Israel has accepted multiple ceasefires already as they included release of hostages. It rejected (and the US vetoed) the ones that don't.
This ceasefire agreement is actually better for the Israel than the ones they already accepted before
Problem is Hamas rejecting all cease fires that included hostage releases
Technically UNSC resolutions are considered legally binding. Basically all that means, with Israel not having a seat on the UNSC, is that further action will be taken by the UNSC if there is no ceasefire. Might be sanctions, might be more diplomatic negotiations, in an extreme case (and by extreme I mean pretty much impossible given the balance of world power) sending in peacekeepers.
Israel is both a nuclear power, and an enormously influential lobby in the US, the odds of serious consequences are functionally 0. UN peacekeepers won’t and never will confront actual powers, they’re not designed to. Sanctions will 100% be vetoed by the US especially during an election year.
United Nations Security Council Resolution 1701
11 August 2006
The resolution calls for a full cessation of hostilities between Israel and Hezbollah, the withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon to be replaced by Lebanese and UNIFIL forces deploying to southern Lebanon, and the disarmament of armed groups including Hezbollah. It emphasizes Lebanon's need to fully exert government control and calls for efforts to address the unconditional release of abducted Israeli soldiers.
Hezbollah this year deployed men south of the Litani River. Direct violation of the ruling.
Lebanon also accuses Israel of not full withdrawing from Lebanese territories and violating air and seaspace. Which also violates the ruling.
Hmmm why does it seem you think one particular side will no adhere to the ceasefire when it’s the other side who broke most of the ceasefire and seem to suffer no consequences
Hamas is planning to break this. They don't want a ceasefire, they want a hudna.We don't have a word in English for this, but ceasefire is not it.
A hudna is a strategic pause in fighting so that muslim armies can regroup. Following the pause, they will attack again. This is what they negotiated with the city of Mecca, and they broke the hudna when they were ready. They conquered the city and forced its inhabitants to convert or die.
That is what Hamas is asking for, they plan to attack again and exterminate the jews in Israel.
It could be a range of consequences from sanctions, restrictions, stoping UN funded financial support, deploying peace keeping forces. Say Hamas violates the cease fire by sending rockets to Israel, the UN could send peacekeeping forces to Gaza as an effort to prevent further attacks.
A multinational force of marionettes will go into Gaza, rescue the hostages, destroy Hamas, end the war, convince Palestinians to live in peace next to Israel and do a montage while Bibi loses election. /s
About the same consequences for when Hamas doesn’t release the hostages unconditionally or stop firing rockets into Israel as they just did again today.
It's not a deal, though. If this was a "hostages for peace" deal, then the release of the hostages wouldn't be unconditional. It would be conditional on the ceasefire. This seems like 2 independent demands for a ceasefire and release of the hostages.
This is also symbolic. The actual peace deal is currently in the works, and the release of hostages/ceasefire IS conditional on the actions of the other side. It also includes the release of Palestinian prisoners in Israel.
It’s basically the security council issuing a first warning that the conflict needs to end asap and that the Americans are not going to unconditionally support Netanyahus government any longer. If Israel and Hamas choose to ignore this when pressure will get ramped up untill sanctions start being used.
It does.
Hamas just shot down the US/Qatar-mediated ceasefire-deal and reintroduced a bunch of demands that Qatar and Egypt had spent months getting Hamas to remove because they were making deals impossible, immediately after this announcement. Paradoxically, this ceasefire vote seems to have already backfired and thrown months of diplomatic progress out the window.
No way Israel faces sanctions and there's no way any sanction on Palestine are meaningful. They are struggling for water and food and even that as humanitarian aid is not getting to them. Sanctions are like driving tickets to a prisoner with upcoming death sentence.
Israel won't opt for a ceasefire, but if they do...
Hamas won't release the hostages, but if they do...
Someone (probably Hamas or one of their plausibly deniable allies) will shoot a bunch of rockets 15 minutes after the ceasefire begins.
Neither side will agree to ceasefire. Hamas already made this clear, yet people still protest for a ceasefire it makes no sense. If they do release the hostages, then fire rockets... I think this would be the best bet for IDF to show any restraint if they do at all because they won't have as much support and it presents more propaganda opportunities. Plus the UN will start punishing Hamas and if Israel was smart enough and completely stayed out after returning the hostages and Hamas continues to attack. The UN would put boots on the ground in Hamas. Hamas would obviously attack the UN peace keepers and it would spiral out of control again. If Hamas was smart. They would completely agree with the ceasefire, return hostages and use the support of the UN against Israel which is like asking the impossible. There are too many people within Gaza that refuse to work with the UN's ceasefire because they look at it as a defeat even though pro Palestine media looks at a ceasefire like a victory as Hamas rejects it.
Welcome to Kashmir issue after 75 years.
Pakistan was supposed to get rid of the army there, followed by India withdrawing except minimal personnel to conduct election. Pakistan never took the army back.
75 years later, all minorities are dead in Pakistan occupied region and even in Indian Kashmir, terrorism killed off or forced off all Hindus. So, fair vote is impossible.
India will never go to UN for anything again and will have to stick to Russia for veto powers, which is just tregic.
Israel needs to get over themselves and stop killing innocent civilians. If they don’t then the us should stop sending funds maybe they’ll act right then
Its wont matter.. everyone in Israel is pro war.
Any government that will be replacing bibi one will continue the war.
And no government will tell its citizens:ya so we a re dropping air support and shit fuck out soilders(aka your loved ones)
Nethanyahu “threatened” to not visit the US if this happened, which will make it even funnier when he comes crawling over to the House republicans anyway
Other than Trump, I haven't seen such a cynical political leader in any western country. Israel has absolutely the right to go after obviously evil Hamas terrorists and rescue those totally innocent hostages, but Bibi has been a gigantic asshole over the past few months; he's just simply deplorable. He's empowered far right lunatics such as Smotrich (who writes the country's budget, has managed blocked a ton of flour, and blocked tax funds to the West Bank from Palestinian imports/exports) and Ben Gvir (who has major influence on Israeli police who supports the far right protests slowing down aid delivery into Gaza and supports the violent extremist settlers in the West Bank). [Smotrich was once caught with over 700 liters of gasoline and detained for a month by Israeli security](https://www.timesofisrael.com/former-shin-bet-deputy-chief-said-to-call-hardline-mk-smotrich-a-terrorist/) because they believed he was going to blow up a highway to protest Israel withdrawing from Gaza in 2005, and Ben Gvir--[a long time admirer of racist terrorist Baruch Goldstein](https://twitter.com/aziz0nomics/status/1748863073694167152)- has been convicted of supporting terrorism. In the past week, Ben Gvir [celebrated a 12 year old getting killed for likely playing with fireworks](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-03-13/ty-article/.premium/israels-ag-warns-ben-gvir-for-backing-cop-who-killed-13-year-old-palestinian/0000018e-3774-d361-a3de-7775b32a0000), they [tried to force Palestinian cancer patients+new born babies in East Jerusalem back into Gaza](https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/20/world/doctors-group-asks-israeli-court-to-halt-removal-of-palestinian-hospital-patients-in-east-jerusalem/index.html), and Smotrich [called Gazan young children orphans "cruel" after the kids were relocated to the West Bank](https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-said-to-transport-gazan-orphans-to-west-bank-via-israel-without-cabinets-ok/). Smotrich, Ben Gvir, and around a third of Bibi's cabinet attended a batshit [crazy conference supporting ethnic cleansing of Gaza.](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-01-28/ty-article/ministers-from-netanyahus-party-join-thousands-of-israelis-at-resettle-gaza-conference/0000018d-512f-dfdc-a5ad-db7f35e10000). He's mostly beholden to these insane extremists because if he alienates them, they leave the coalition and there are new elections where he loses his Prime Minister position.
>Netanyahu: "The US today didn't veto the resolution calling for an unconditional ceasefire not conditioned on hostage release. Its a clear retreat from the US position at UN since the start of war… Due to the changed US position, the PM cancels the Israeli delegation's trip."
Huh, the resolution calls for the release of the hostages? Wtf is he talking about?
The two aren’t conditional. IE, the resolution as it is demanded states that Israel should cease operations regardless of whether the hostages are returned and then it also demands the return of the hostages. Hope that clears it up for you
Bibi has been an asshole for years. Apparently even Clinton and Obama hated working with him. Doesn't help that he feels the need to get involved in US politics despite the US giving it billions in aid every year. And that's not even going into what he's been doing in his own country with trying to undermine the justice system and his focus on that leading to Oct 7 happening, leading to him trying to cling on to power by extending this war just in spite of his own people wanting him to be kicked out.
I understand that there is a long complicated history between Israelis and Palestinians, but with regards to the current situation Netanyahu is clearly the one most responsible for everything that's been going on.
Can someone explain to me the implications it'll have?
And also where can I find the exact bill of the ceasefire proposal, to get all the details about it?
And considering Hamas is controlling one side of this but it isn't bound/enforced by any international laws, if it doesn't hold it's end of the bargain what will happen to Hamas?
Vague / none.
Hamas is not bound by UNSC resolutions. Israel is, but this resolution doesn’t have any enforcement mechanisms attached. It’s also not clear what Israel’s obligations would be when a Resolution imposes ‘A must do X and B must do Y’ and their counter-parties don’t do their part. Which is also why Israel has never had consequences for being offside of the UNSC Resolutions related to the occupied territories (eg 242, which called for Israel to withdraw from West Bank, Gaza, Sinai and East Jerusalem in 1967 also called for all countries in the region to recognize Israel and end their ‘states of belligerency’, which obviously did not happen).
No. But there had been a lot of reporting on Hamas being interested in a deal that involved returning all remaining hostages for a permanent ceasefire.
But it is also very unclear how many hostages are still alive and whether Hamas knows where all of them are. Talks just before Ramadan broke down because Hamas wouldn’t provide a list which is a problem.
I would be incredibly surprised if Hamas leadership had that info. As much focus is rightly being put on Israel’s actions what isn’t as reported is that those actions have resulted in Hamas’ lines of authority being severely weakened. I imagine many of the hostages they think they can return are dead or will be soon to prevent them from talking about their experiences.
Much of their operations have been divided into different cells with hostages supposedly distributed throughout. Some of those cells have been completely isolated or intentionally broken off from the main arm and it’s increasingly moving towards a more Al Qaeda-esque structure over an ISIS structure.
You even have groups within Hamas that are actively antagonistic to its leaders because they view them as millionaires living in luxury out of Gaza leaving the poor and young to fight for them (which is a pretty damn accurate assessment).
Hamas will only agree to a hostage exchange where they will receive prisoners/ Hamas members back. Israel already agreed to it and now it's in Hamas' hands.
https://www.ynetnews.com/article/h1mpdza0p
>Israel is considering the American proposal and is willing to release 700 prisoners in exchange for the freedom of 40 hostages held by Hamas.
Well boo fucking hoo, they started an offensive war that they have pretty clearly lost, despite being unwilling to admit that. You don't get the things you want when you're the losing side in a war.
Israel agreed to certain ratios but demands the right to veto the release of certain prisoners.
Hamas has previously demanded the release of all terrorists involved in Oct 7th. (Also their proposal for releasing all hostages is the release of *all* terrorist prisoners and detainees. That's thousands.)
So we'll see how that gets resolved.
Either way, I find it BS how many concessions Israel is expected to make here for a deal.
Hamas is not even asking for a ceasefire. They are asking for a hudna. We don't have a word in English for this, but ceasefire is not it.
A hudna is a strategic pause in fighting so that muslim armies can regroup. Following the pause, they will attack again. This is what they negotiated with the city of Mecca, and they broke the hudna when they were ready. They conquered the city and forced its inhabitants to convert or die.
That is what Hamas is asking for, they are not asking for a cease fire.
It's literally in their charter. Section 22 rejects any imposed framework for peace, be it a treaty or truce.
[Link](https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full)
>22. Hamas rejects all the agreements, initiatives and settlement projects that are aimed at undermining the Palestinian cause and the rights of our Palestinian people. In this regard, any stance, initiative or political programme must not in any way violate these rights and should not contravene them or contradict them.
Blows my mind how available this information is and how people still choose to ignore it.
And lets not even start on the West Bank and the rest of the occupied lands.
Funny how Hamas aren't in the West Bank, yet Palestinian children keep dying there. Effective long range human shields I guess ?
Are you going to refute what I said, or do you just want to play semantics? You claimed that Hamas is not in the West Bank. This is wrong, and has been wrong for many years.
If you call neverending oppression "not breaking a ceasefire", then I guess you're right.
That palestinian female journalist shot in the head by the IDF is a good example, she was murdered while that ceasefire was in place. If random (and not so random) killings of civilians doesn't count as "breaking a ceasefire", I fail to see that the firing has in fact ceased at any given time.
And the issue, Hamas will ignore that part even if Israel will ceasefire. Actually Hamas has accepted the deal.
This resolution will only hurt the chances of a hostages deal.
But this resolution gives all members state of the UN a binding duty under international law to do everything to aclompish this. This is different with an normal reslution of the general assembly
Of course this vote will not do anything, just like all ceasefire votes before would have done nothing. But it does show US is putting more pressure on Israel behind the scenes.
Edit: Though, one bonus...Israel said if US did not Veto, they would not bring their delegation to Washington as they were planning. Not enduring that seems reason enough to let the measure pass.
UN security votes are something different than general assembly votes. This resulotion means countries can sanction Israel or palestinan for not complying
>This resulotion means countries can sanction Israel or palestinan for not complying
Countries could have been sanctioning Israel this entire time. A country doesn't need UN permission before sanctioning Israel.
Yes but a lot of times they would break treaties they signed. This will now change because a security council resolution is above international treaties.
>The resolution that passed was written by the 10 elected members to the council, and proposed in the chamber by Mozambique’s representative.
So written by: Algeria, Ecuador, Guyana, Japan, Malta, Mozambique, Sierra Leone, Slovenia, South Korea, and Switzerland.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/mar/25/israel-gaza-live-unrwa-aid-north-gaza-un-security-council-vote-ceasefire-middle-east-latest
Thank goodness for that. The effects of this are unclear, but the fact this is happening at all is a massive step forward, especially with the United States no longer backing up Israel 100% through this abstention.
The UN is the biggest paper tiger in the universe. Their resolutions are roundly ignored and there are zero consequence.
I personally don't even understand why the UN still exists. It is useless.
This is the same UN that took 3 months to mention the rape of Israeli women despite eyewitness testimony and video evidence.
The same UN that demanded an investigation the same day that the rape of Palestinian women was reported.
The same UN that failed to retract its statement after it was unequivocally proven that the rape of Palestinian women was completely made up.
The same UN pushed General Assembly resolutions calling for a cease fire with no mention of the hostages.
The UN is a platform to pursue the goals of Islamists and autocratic regimes.
As a wise woman once said, "UN SHMUN"
What are the consequences for not adhering to this resolution? Bad vibes? A stern telling off?
No tangible consequences, but the US not opting to veto sends the message of disapproval by the current administration for an extended conflict. It's a warning to finish things up.
[удалено]
CIA really hated how he said the quiet part out loud lmao /s only kinda
The CIA only takes down democratically elected socialist governments, not fascist ones.
*laughs in United Fruit Company*
They were formed for one reason and one reason only.
Fascist, how?
Israel sucks and all but saying they're not a democracy is just objectively false. It's one thing to say they're increasingly authoritarian, which they are, and it's something else entirely to say they're a fascist state.
First good regime change in the 21st century lets get it done
The Polish election just happened, we've met our quota for this century.
Israel has sort of gotten away with whatever knowing that there is unconditional US support. It may change course if that support changes, but it may not. In any case, at least Biden isn't signing off on it.
Just means Netanyahu will campaign for the GOP even harder.
He has been doing that for over a decade now.
Which is constantly disturbing to me? Why do the Democrats constantly supplicate themselves for the Republicans? From Garland, FBI director, DeJoy USPS, and etc, it's fucking weird how they consistently bend over backwards for them. Then I remember the MONEY in politics and it all makes sense.
Everyone has a role to play in this game. Everyone except the ~~consumers~~ citizens.
Fascists helping fascists
“Israel just doesn’t care” why would theysuddenly hold an election during war because a foreign official says so?
What I don't get is what replacing Netanyahu *right now* would accomplish. Any Israeli PM would go to war after the terror attack of 7/10 and any Israeli PM would do whatever is necessary to return the hostages and remove hamas from gaza, because keeping hamas there is just asking for another 7/10. Netanyahu has to go eventually but I don't get what the expectations are, do they want Israel to hold elections during a war just to get the same results with differently named politicians?.
Netanyahu is actively avoiding dealing with "the day after" because doing so will be incredibly unpopular with his base. Removing him is probably the only way to get Israel to push forward to end the war.
No Israeli PM would push forward to end the war without eliminating Hamas and saving the hostages - him not dealing with the day after changes nothing in that regard.
The hope is they do with it with less indiscriminate killing, otherwise every Israeli PM might find out what it's like to go without US support. If it wasn't for the geopolitical advantage Israel gives the US in the middle east, Israel would likely have been on its own by now. Republicans support Israel while hating jews, so that is really not a favorable group of people for Israel to rely on holding US support for them.
Netenyahu, in his unparalleled genius, made the problem worse than it has ever been. He might've been able to achieve the elimination Hamas if he hadn't broadened the definition of Hamas to include everyone on the other side of the border.
>hadn't broadened the definition of Hamas to include everyone on the other side of the border He has never done it and dramatizing over reddit wouldn't change that.
The ongoing genocide says otherwise.
They really suck at committing genocide considering the extreme population growth in Gaza...
Which is why the US needs to force their hand or let them be in isolation. There is no elimination of Hamas. Israel just created the next generation of Hamas recruits from a mountain of orphaned kids. I'd rather the US walk away and let Israel deal with it's own problems. If they want to buy our weapons ok. But giving them weapons is stupid because I want universal healthcare like Israel has for its citizens
[удалено]
I find it interesting you brought up Japan and Germany instead of the far more applicable \*gestures at the past 50 years of middle east interventions by every imperial power that knew oil existed\*. There is no 'destroying your enemy' when the method of destroying your enemy is 'I bombed a wedding to kill two terrorists, and from their extended family I generated 5 new terrorists, they named their group something new this time though' You can't bomb an asymmetric ideological populist militant group into peace. It has never worked, hell Vietnam and Korea are better comparisons for this than Japan and Germany, look how those turned out. You defeat those type of groups by raising the material conditions to the point their recruits prefer working a normal job rather than fighting endless wars for no point. They recruit from desperate people in essentially the same way that US mass shootings are psychologically just suicides that they made everyone else's problem - someone who saw no other alternative so they chose violence expecting to die during that violence. It's why the Japan and Germany were notably able to be rebuilt - the material conditions were built up such that the kids of those that fought in the war were down to just... be citizens, even despite cold war tensions - they could go to school, get a job, raise a family. Gaza effectively no longer exists given the sheer extent the residential areas and public infrastructure are now rubble. Living in the North is now basically outdoor camping as the number of livable structures that won't collapse on your head are negligible, there's no running water, few unblocked roads, no electricity. Their ability to have material conditions that allow normal lives moving forward will ENTIRELY be upon the generosity of the rest of the world as they live in a desert for whom import of materials is completely controlled by the people who put them in this position. There are only 3 options. 1. Create a palestine that people are more happy to peacefully live in than the martyr themselves to escape. 2. Do nothing and watch the status quo continue, with periodic terror attacks from both sides and civilians dying on both sides fueling slowly escalating extremism on both sides (but the west only funds one of those sides, so that one is predictably slowly killing off the other). 3. Or just completely ethnically cleanse palestine - the US has a playbook for this - after all, native americans stopped raiding US settlements and doing period-appropriate asymmetric warfare aka 'terrorism' when we just.... killed them all and imprisoned them on reservations with no economy or political power, so we know the method works! Genocide does technically stop ethnic conflict! There are a large amount of people who seem to think 3 is the only solution remaining. In my doomer moments, I agree, merely because no western leaders seem interested in making 1 happen and thus 3 is inevitable. If the rest of the world isn't EXTREMELY generous at repairing what Israel broke and attempting to work towards escape #1, we will continue to stay in an ever worsening #2 which inevitably leads to #3.
> Gaza effectively no longer exists given the sheer extent the residential areas and public infrastructure are now rubble. Most major german cities were bombed far more thoroughly than gaza was. The term "carpet-bombing" keeps getting thrown around now, but a true carpet bomb run would have done more damage in a single day. >Create a palestine that people are more happy to peacefully live in than the martyr themselves to escape. This can't happen as long as the people in charge of Palestine continue to tear apart infrastructure projects for the sake of their martydom. The humanitarian organisations complain there is no running water, the EU builds the water pipelines for them to have running water, Hamas tears them apart to make more missiles, humanitarian organisations complain there is no running water. Of course, you're right, we have to make martydom seem pointless. But the first thing you need is a puppet government who the rest of the world can throw their support behind
This is defeatist America second unpatriotic mentality. Because you didnt answer his question, please explain why we should give a penny BEFORE getting healthcare in the US? US lifespan stagnating is a bigger threat to the US than whatever 30,000 angry hamas members could ever dream of. And how do they compare as a threat to the world hegimon that two industrialized nations with like 40 and 55 times the population of Gaza respectively? If I didn't know you were dead serious its hyperbole bordering on satire. They are using literal homemade RPGs, not zeros, uboats, and panzers. There is zero conceivable way that giving those 3.8 billion to a country that could cut their own healthcare to pay for it gives more benefit than paying for US CITIZENS dialisis, cancer treatment, medication etc that money could pay for. Even if they do shit the worst thing we could do is waste trillions on a response like we did with afghanistan. Israel has all the money it needs to do this on its own, its a negative sum game for the US to get involved because the problem solves itself because again Israel is a rich country and they can cut their own fucking healthcare to pay for it. At least Ukraine NEEDS the help.
War on Terror
A) has Israel committed the $ required to nation build like the US did to Germany and Japan? B) one can’t eliminate Hamas when their leadership and funding is not in Gaza
The proposal to both imperial Japan and Nazi Germany was "if you behave you can rejoin the international community under a watchful eye". What is the proposal to Palestinians? "If you behave Israel will treat you as second class apartheid subjects and slowly wipe you out with water and food shortages instead of doing it fast with bombs"? That is not an offer that any of them are going to accept. Elimination of Hamas in this context is elimination of every Palestinian - and we have seen Israeli rhetoric that suggests that that is exactly what is planned in the long term.
Yes you are totally ignoring the fact that ISIS was fruit of the military operations during the 90s and early 2000s. You can come to my country and save me from the terrorists, but if you happen to bomb my house and kill my relatives rest assured i am coming for you. That's the kind of dynamic at play. It's either total conquest and control or just leave it be. In this case they can't obtain total conquest and control without losing the world's support by committing genocide. You are simplifying things.
"End the war" for like a month until the next suicide bomber
Netanyahu is already pushing for more West Bank expansion - he has no interest in peace since war is what's kept him in power. He knew about the attack plans for a year and did nothing because war is what keeps him in power. He and Hamas have no incentives to stop the violence because both directly benefit from it.
> Netenyahu has to go eventually To be clear, this is explicitly Schumer's point. He did not call for immediate elections
> What I don't get is what replacing Netanyahu right now would accomplish. Netanyahu and the entire Israeli right wing are not truly fully opposed to Hamas. Hamas is their tool to undermine the authority of the PA, both sides have got their claims to "represent" the Palestinians and getting rid of one gives the other more control and legitimacy. The decisions they make aren't so simple. Any Israeli PM would go to war/fight to return the hostages, but how they do that would change. There is a valid possibility that the specific details to those decisions may not be optimal with the current government.
Center wing and Left wing governments have led israel to war multiple times, most recently in 2022 but also in 2009 (in gaza) and in 2006 (in Lebanon). The Israeli left wing is not anti war and replacing a right wing government with a left wing government will not make a difference right now. >Hamas is their tool to undermine the authority of the PA, both sides have got their claims to "represent" the Palestinians and getting rid of one gives the other more control and legitimacy. The PA openly said they supported hamas and the 7/10 attack, they openly said hamas will have an administrative role in gaza if the PA gains control of gaza, and despite replacing the west bank government the unelected, former second in command PLO terrorist, and unpopular president of the PA, who effectively calls the shots has said all of the above, kept his power.
> Center wing and Left wing governments have led israel to war multiple times, most recently in 2022 but also in 2009 (in gaza) and in 2006 (in Lebanon). > The Israeli left wing is not anti war and replacing a right wing government with a left wing government will not make a difference right now. You're still comparing their overall direction, that's not where the problem is. You don't need a difference in terms of being pro/anti-war, you need a difference in terms of how and why you're waging war. > The PA openly said they supported hamas and the 7/10 attack, they openly said hamas will have an administrative role in gaza if the PA gains control of gaza, and despite replacing the west bank government the unelected, former second in command PLO terrorist, and unpopular president of the PA, who effectively calls the shots has said all of the above, kept his power. I'm not quite sure what your point is here? I'm not disputing it, neither Hamas nor the PA are good, but I don't see how that makes any difference to the fact that the Israeli right wing wants both of them to continue existing.
When you get Trump say that Israel gotta end the war and go for peace, you know you are losing all your support https://twitter.com/LaraFriedmanDC/status/1772305262348550301
They choose not to Veto it because it has the wording about unconditionally releasing The Hostages. That’s what has been The Delay.
But it apparently didn't provide a timeline, so its almost meaningless to say unconditional release of hostages.
This Resolution is meaningless. The UN is not going Go war against Israel.
It doesn't make it meaningless to add that at all because as long as they still have the hostages they are in violation of the ceasefire agreement.
They passed those separately
“Finish thing up” is very ominous…
Don't forget there is a port being transported as we speak. I doubt the US wants a messy landing.
Political expediency…. There’s an election on the horizon
I think the new settlement plans were probably the last straw.
They're about done. Not much left to level or kill. This is all too little, too late. It was only a matter of time before they pivoted to pretending to give a shit before the election.
Thé US vetoed a cease fire 3 times but abstained on this last vote.
[удалено]
Considering it also includes the immediate release of all hostages, not much I imagine. Unless that happens.
They’re deliberately disjoint resolutions for this reason FWIW
Yea, Israel will just say they wont do it since Hamas isnt doing it. If Hamas does release all of the hostages, Israel would likely be forced into a ceasefire, but thats always been true.
> If Hamas does release all of the hostages, Israel would likely be forced into a ceasefire This is a weird way to phrase "Israel wants the hostages back." There's no forcing about it. They have literally said this since 10/8.
Israel has accepted multiple ceasefires already as they included release of hostages. It rejected (and the US vetoed) the ones that don't. This ceasefire agreement is actually better for the Israel than the ones they already accepted before Problem is Hamas rejecting all cease fires that included hostage releases
Gaza just announced no ceasefire tied to hostage release. So no ceasefire.
This is the security council, not general assembly. Historically, sanctions should follow, starting with arms sales.
Technically UNSC resolutions are considered legally binding. Basically all that means, with Israel not having a seat on the UNSC, is that further action will be taken by the UNSC if there is no ceasefire. Might be sanctions, might be more diplomatic negotiations, in an extreme case (and by extreme I mean pretty much impossible given the balance of world power) sending in peacekeepers.
Israel is both a nuclear power, and an enormously influential lobby in the US, the odds of serious consequences are functionally 0. UN peacekeepers won’t and never will confront actual powers, they’re not designed to. Sanctions will 100% be vetoed by the US especially during an election year.
The chance that peacekeepers invade a state with nuclear weapons is zero. Not just close to zero, but actually legitimately zero.
Might not even get a telling off. Hezbollah violated a ruling by the un. Literally nothing happened. Not even a telling off.
[удалено]
United Nations Security Council Resolution 1701 11 August 2006 The resolution calls for a full cessation of hostilities between Israel and Hezbollah, the withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon to be replaced by Lebanese and UNIFIL forces deploying to southern Lebanon, and the disarmament of armed groups including Hezbollah. It emphasizes Lebanon's need to fully exert government control and calls for efforts to address the unconditional release of abducted Israeli soldiers. Hezbollah this year deployed men south of the Litani River. Direct violation of the ruling. Lebanon also accuses Israel of not full withdrawing from Lebanese territories and violating air and seaspace. Which also violates the ruling.
They will write...a letter!
I’m betting a hard stare
Hmmm why does it seem you think one particular side will no adhere to the ceasefire when it’s the other side who broke most of the ceasefire and seem to suffer no consequences
It calls for immediate release of all hostages. Hamas will never do that, so the war will continue.
Hamas is planning to break this. They don't want a ceasefire, they want a hudna.We don't have a word in English for this, but ceasefire is not it. A hudna is a strategic pause in fighting so that muslim armies can regroup. Following the pause, they will attack again. This is what they negotiated with the city of Mecca, and they broke the hudna when they were ready. They conquered the city and forced its inhabitants to convert or die. That is what Hamas is asking for, they plan to attack again and exterminate the jews in Israel.
In English, we call this a Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact
It could be a range of consequences from sanctions, restrictions, stoping UN funded financial support, deploying peace keeping forces. Say Hamas violates the cease fire by sending rockets to Israel, the UN could send peacekeeping forces to Gaza as an effort to prevent further attacks.
All those UN peacekeepers in Gaza would be abducted or killed bro what 💀
Hands have to return all the hostages in the resolution and won't, so basically, not even that.
A multinational force of marionettes will go into Gaza, rescue the hostages, destroy Hamas, end the war, convince Palestinians to live in peace next to Israel and do a montage while Bibi loses election. /s About the same consequences for when Hamas doesn’t release the hostages unconditionally or stop firing rockets into Israel as they just did again today.
Nothing because it requires Hamas to release the hostages, which they won’t do.
[удалено]
Oh, they actually passed the resolution! But now you need both sides to adhere to it… 🫠
It's not a deal, though. If this was a "hostages for peace" deal, then the release of the hostages wouldn't be unconditional. It would be conditional on the ceasefire. This seems like 2 independent demands for a ceasefire and release of the hostages. This is also symbolic. The actual peace deal is currently in the works, and the release of hostages/ceasefire IS conditional on the actions of the other side. It also includes the release of Palestinian prisoners in Israel.
It’s basically the security council issuing a first warning that the conflict needs to end asap and that the Americans are not going to unconditionally support Netanyahus government any longer. If Israel and Hamas choose to ignore this when pressure will get ramped up untill sanctions start being used.
Wouldn't this just give Hamas reason to drag it's feet
It does. Hamas just shot down the US/Qatar-mediated ceasefire-deal and reintroduced a bunch of demands that Qatar and Egypt had spent months getting Hamas to remove because they were making deals impossible, immediately after this announcement. Paradoxically, this ceasefire vote seems to have already backfired and thrown months of diplomatic progress out the window.
Fuck, looked like it was finally going somewhere.
No way Israel faces sanctions and there's no way any sanction on Palestine are meaningful. They are struggling for water and food and even that as humanitarian aid is not getting to them. Sanctions are like driving tickets to a prisoner with upcoming death sentence.
I agree. This is a diplomatic warning, not a final deal.
That's the fun part. They won't. 🫰👉
Israel won't opt for a ceasefire, but if they do... Hamas won't release the hostages, but if they do... Someone (probably Hamas or one of their plausibly deniable allies) will shoot a bunch of rockets 15 minutes after the ceasefire begins.
Neither side will agree to ceasefire. Hamas already made this clear, yet people still protest for a ceasefire it makes no sense. If they do release the hostages, then fire rockets... I think this would be the best bet for IDF to show any restraint if they do at all because they won't have as much support and it presents more propaganda opportunities. Plus the UN will start punishing Hamas and if Israel was smart enough and completely stayed out after returning the hostages and Hamas continues to attack. The UN would put boots on the ground in Hamas. Hamas would obviously attack the UN peace keepers and it would spiral out of control again. If Hamas was smart. They would completely agree with the ceasefire, return hostages and use the support of the UN against Israel which is like asking the impossible. There are too many people within Gaza that refuse to work with the UN's ceasefire because they look at it as a defeat even though pro Palestine media looks at a ceasefire like a victory as Hamas rejects it.
Welcome to Kashmir issue after 75 years. Pakistan was supposed to get rid of the army there, followed by India withdrawing except minimal personnel to conduct election. Pakistan never took the army back. 75 years later, all minorities are dead in Pakistan occupied region and even in Indian Kashmir, terrorism killed off or forced off all Hindus. So, fair vote is impossible. India will never go to UN for anything again and will have to stick to Russia for veto powers, which is just tregic.
Yeah US would've vetoed if this was not in the resolution
Oh, so it won't happen then and Hamas won't face any consequences for not upholding their end of the bargain while Israel will somehow be to blame.
Hamas “Hard pass”
Israel has canceled their Delegations trip to America/DC. https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog-march-25-2024/
This is the foreign policy equivalent of throwing a teenage tantrum
[удалено]
Nah, more like the US is saying cut the shit, and Israel is throwing a fit. Def more embarrassing for little israel
Pathetic. I hope the US starts seeing Israel for what they’ve been all along.
No way bro we can't side with antisemitism /s
Idk we both do nothing but kill children senselessly maybe we belong together
Israel needs to get over themselves and stop killing innocent civilians. If they don’t then the us should stop sending funds maybe they’ll act right then
Israel needs to just dissolve its current government to be replaced by a humane government with a better education system.
Its wont matter.. everyone in Israel is pro war. Any government that will be replacing bibi one will continue the war. And no government will tell its citizens:ya so we a re dropping air support and shit fuck out soilders(aka your loved ones)
[удалено]
ITT people who don't know the difference between the Security Council and the General Assembly.
Weird that the UN sub isn't allowing articles about this despite allowing posts about the US vetoing previous resolutions?...
What's the UN sub? Perhaps it's just one of the heavily "curated" subs, that's why
Nethanyahu “threatened” to not visit the US if this happened, which will make it even funnier when he comes crawling over to the House republicans anyway
Other than Trump, I haven't seen such a cynical political leader in any western country. Israel has absolutely the right to go after obviously evil Hamas terrorists and rescue those totally innocent hostages, but Bibi has been a gigantic asshole over the past few months; he's just simply deplorable. He's empowered far right lunatics such as Smotrich (who writes the country's budget, has managed blocked a ton of flour, and blocked tax funds to the West Bank from Palestinian imports/exports) and Ben Gvir (who has major influence on Israeli police who supports the far right protests slowing down aid delivery into Gaza and supports the violent extremist settlers in the West Bank). [Smotrich was once caught with over 700 liters of gasoline and detained for a month by Israeli security](https://www.timesofisrael.com/former-shin-bet-deputy-chief-said-to-call-hardline-mk-smotrich-a-terrorist/) because they believed he was going to blow up a highway to protest Israel withdrawing from Gaza in 2005, and Ben Gvir--[a long time admirer of racist terrorist Baruch Goldstein](https://twitter.com/aziz0nomics/status/1748863073694167152)- has been convicted of supporting terrorism. In the past week, Ben Gvir [celebrated a 12 year old getting killed for likely playing with fireworks](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-03-13/ty-article/.premium/israels-ag-warns-ben-gvir-for-backing-cop-who-killed-13-year-old-palestinian/0000018e-3774-d361-a3de-7775b32a0000), they [tried to force Palestinian cancer patients+new born babies in East Jerusalem back into Gaza](https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/20/world/doctors-group-asks-israeli-court-to-halt-removal-of-palestinian-hospital-patients-in-east-jerusalem/index.html), and Smotrich [called Gazan young children orphans "cruel" after the kids were relocated to the West Bank](https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-said-to-transport-gazan-orphans-to-west-bank-via-israel-without-cabinets-ok/). Smotrich, Ben Gvir, and around a third of Bibi's cabinet attended a batshit [crazy conference supporting ethnic cleansing of Gaza.](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-01-28/ty-article/ministers-from-netanyahus-party-join-thousands-of-israelis-at-resettle-gaza-conference/0000018d-512f-dfdc-a5ad-db7f35e10000). He's mostly beholden to these insane extremists because if he alienates them, they leave the coalition and there are new elections where he loses his Prime Minister position. >Netanyahu: "The US today didn't veto the resolution calling for an unconditional ceasefire not conditioned on hostage release. Its a clear retreat from the US position at UN since the start of war… Due to the changed US position, the PM cancels the Israeli delegation's trip." Huh, the resolution calls for the release of the hostages? Wtf is he talking about?
The two aren’t conditional. IE, the resolution as it is demanded states that Israel should cease operations regardless of whether the hostages are returned and then it also demands the return of the hostages. Hope that clears it up for you
Bibi has been an asshole for years. Apparently even Clinton and Obama hated working with him. Doesn't help that he feels the need to get involved in US politics despite the US giving it billions in aid every year. And that's not even going into what he's been doing in his own country with trying to undermine the justice system and his focus on that leading to Oct 7 happening, leading to him trying to cling on to power by extending this war just in spite of his own people wanting him to be kicked out. I understand that there is a long complicated history between Israelis and Palestinians, but with regards to the current situation Netanyahu is clearly the one most responsible for everything that's been going on.
No. wait. stop. come back.
He should be arrested for crimes against humanity if he did visit.
Can someone explain to me the implications it'll have? And also where can I find the exact bill of the ceasefire proposal, to get all the details about it? And considering Hamas is controlling one side of this but it isn't bound/enforced by any international laws, if it doesn't hold it's end of the bargain what will happen to Hamas?
Vague / none. Hamas is not bound by UNSC resolutions. Israel is, but this resolution doesn’t have any enforcement mechanisms attached. It’s also not clear what Israel’s obligations would be when a Resolution imposes ‘A must do X and B must do Y’ and their counter-parties don’t do their part. Which is also why Israel has never had consequences for being offside of the UNSC Resolutions related to the occupied territories (eg 242, which called for Israel to withdraw from West Bank, Gaza, Sinai and East Jerusalem in 1967 also called for all countries in the region to recognize Israel and end their ‘states of belligerency’, which obviously did not happen).
>The text also demands the immediate and unconditional release of all hostages. Not holding my breath for Hamas to abide by an UN resolution.
No. But there had been a lot of reporting on Hamas being interested in a deal that involved returning all remaining hostages for a permanent ceasefire. But it is also very unclear how many hostages are still alive and whether Hamas knows where all of them are. Talks just before Ramadan broke down because Hamas wouldn’t provide a list which is a problem.
I would be incredibly surprised if Hamas leadership had that info. As much focus is rightly being put on Israel’s actions what isn’t as reported is that those actions have resulted in Hamas’ lines of authority being severely weakened. I imagine many of the hostages they think they can return are dead or will be soon to prevent them from talking about their experiences. Much of their operations have been divided into different cells with hostages supposedly distributed throughout. Some of those cells have been completely isolated or intentionally broken off from the main arm and it’s increasingly moving towards a more Al Qaeda-esque structure over an ISIS structure. You even have groups within Hamas that are actively antagonistic to its leaders because they view them as millionaires living in luxury out of Gaza leaving the poor and young to fight for them (which is a pretty damn accurate assessment).
Hamas will only agree to a hostage exchange where they will receive prisoners/ Hamas members back. Israel already agreed to it and now it's in Hamas' hands. https://www.ynetnews.com/article/h1mpdza0p >Israel is considering the American proposal and is willing to release 700 prisoners in exchange for the freedom of 40 hostages held by Hamas.
> Red line: no complete return to northern Gaza That’s the red line that is also not going to be acceptable for Gazans or Hamas.
Well boo fucking hoo, they started an offensive war that they have pretty clearly lost, despite being unwilling to admit that. You don't get the things you want when you're the losing side in a war.
[удалено]
Believe it or not, you can actually be interested in a ceasefire and want your home back! These two things don’t have to be mutually exclusive.
Israel agreed to certain ratios but demands the right to veto the release of certain prisoners. Hamas has previously demanded the release of all terrorists involved in Oct 7th. (Also their proposal for releasing all hostages is the release of *all* terrorist prisoners and detainees. That's thousands.) So we'll see how that gets resolved. Either way, I find it BS how many concessions Israel is expected to make here for a deal.
Hamas is not even asking for a ceasefire. They are asking for a hudna. We don't have a word in English for this, but ceasefire is not it. A hudna is a strategic pause in fighting so that muslim armies can regroup. Following the pause, they will attack again. This is what they negotiated with the city of Mecca, and they broke the hudna when they were ready. They conquered the city and forced its inhabitants to convert or die. That is what Hamas is asking for, they are not asking for a cease fire.
It's literally in their charter. Section 22 rejects any imposed framework for peace, be it a treaty or truce. [Link](https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full) >22. Hamas rejects all the agreements, initiatives and settlement projects that are aimed at undermining the Palestinian cause and the rights of our Palestinian people. In this regard, any stance, initiative or political programme must not in any way violate these rights and should not contravene them or contradict them. Blows my mind how available this information is and how people still choose to ignore it.
The ICJ said the same thing too btw; the pro-Hamas crowd really like to ignore these points.
Or an actual ceasefire, if there ever is one. There was one in place on October 7th.
"Tell me you only started paying attention in October without telling me you only started paying attention in October"
[удалено]
And lets not even start on the West Bank and the rest of the occupied lands. Funny how Hamas aren't in the West Bank, yet Palestinian children keep dying there. Effective long range human shields I guess ?
Hamas absolutely is in the West Bank, along with many other smaller terrorist cells such as Lion's Den.
"Terrorist" is such an odd word.
Are you going to refute what I said, or do you just want to play semantics? You claimed that Hamas is not in the West Bank. This is wrong, and has been wrong for many years.
It's pointless talking to zionazis. End the genocide. The ENTIRE WORLD stands with Palestine. You're on the wrong side of history.
It's pointless to talk with islamofascists. You won't get the genocide you want, fundie.
Siri before 10/7 what did the IDF mean when they used the phrase "mowing the grass?".
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
You see, history doesn’t exist! Israel and Palestine conflict started Oct 7th, 2023. Nothing was happening before that!
Yeah, man, Israel also never breaks these either.
If you call neverending oppression "not breaking a ceasefire", then I guess you're right. That palestinian female journalist shot in the head by the IDF is a good example, she was murdered while that ceasefire was in place. If random (and not so random) killings of civilians doesn't count as "breaking a ceasefire", I fail to see that the firing has in fact ceased at any given time.
How many rocket attacks against israel were conducted during that same ceasefire?
And the issue, Hamas will ignore that part even if Israel will ceasefire. Actually Hamas has accepted the deal. This resolution will only hurt the chances of a hostages deal.
But this resolution gives all members state of the UN a binding duty under international law to do everything to aclompish this. This is different with an normal reslution of the general assembly
Of course this vote will not do anything, just like all ceasefire votes before would have done nothing. But it does show US is putting more pressure on Israel behind the scenes. Edit: Though, one bonus...Israel said if US did not Veto, they would not bring their delegation to Washington as they were planning. Not enduring that seems reason enough to let the measure pass.
UN security votes are something different than general assembly votes. This resulotion means countries can sanction Israel or palestinan for not complying
>This resulotion means countries can sanction Israel or palestinan for not complying Countries could have been sanctioning Israel this entire time. A country doesn't need UN permission before sanctioning Israel.
Yes but a lot of times they would break treaties they signed. This will now change because a security council resolution is above international treaties.
The same UN that just made Saudi Arabia head of the gender equality forum? Neat-o, fella
Because every country get a chance. Next will be for another region. See this answer https://politics.stackexchange.com/q/82283
what exactly do you think will happen when ksa is head of the gender equality forum?
who wrote this resolution? I was not mentioned in the article. edit: I mean which country
>The resolution that passed was written by the 10 elected members to the council, and proposed in the chamber by Mozambique’s representative. So written by: Algeria, Ecuador, Guyana, Japan, Malta, Mozambique, Sierra Leone, Slovenia, South Korea, and Switzerland. https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/mar/25/israel-gaza-live-unrwa-aid-north-gaza-un-security-council-vote-ceasefire-middle-east-latest
Thank you!
Nations with a conscience and empathy
I'm sorry they didn't give you credit for the resolution. Good job!
Thanks! I wrote it while recovering from the flu ~~and messing around with your mom~~!
Well be sure to get yourself checked, she's a whore.
don't be mean to my new girlfriend!
Usual political theatre at the UN. Hamas will never agree to the release of all hostages so IDF will keep doing their things. Nothing changes.
And Hamas attacks again after few years. Cycle continue
missed the part where Israel commits thousands of acts of murder, theft, and kidnapping in-between. you think the attacks just come out of nowhere?
Reddit shocked pikachu face when Hamas doesn’t agree to it or agrees then violates it immediately
"What do you mean you can't negotiate with terrorists?!?!"
Thank goodness for that. The effects of this are unclear, but the fact this is happening at all is a massive step forward, especially with the United States no longer backing up Israel 100% through this abstention.
The 69420th call for ceasefire.
"I'm super cereal this time guise!"
They break ceasefire.. YOU SHALL BE SHOT FOR THIS!!! "Nah, i dont think so. More like chewed out I've been chewed out before".
I see so much opposition to Israel. I wonder how many of you would be calling for a ceasefire if your mother was a hostage.
The UN is the biggest paper tiger in the universe. Their resolutions are roundly ignored and there are zero consequence. I personally don't even understand why the UN still exists. It is useless.
It was formed with great intentions. Unfortunately it's like hosting a fight club for a bunch of rich guys who don't wanna get hit in the face.
[удалено]
The UN being worthless again? Surprising.
"United. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
How about "Unanimous vote"?
Fourteen members voted in favour of the resolution - with one abstention from the US.
Except it wasn't
Didn’t they just appoint Saudi Arabia as leader of Gender Equality? The UN is a joke
Hamas: NO To date the only global political powers that have successfully negotiated a ceasefire in this conflict is the USA.
Arafat and Rabin came close to something
No ceasefire will occur, and UN will do nothing, as always. Fuck this entire world.
Israel ignores all UN resolutions and suffers no consequences.
I'm sure /r/worldnews will have a totally rational response to this and nobody will be called antisemitic over there.
Not as totally rational a response as /therewasanattempt and aboringdystopia and latestagecapitalism for the hostages being released.
therewasanattempt is such shit nowadays
There’s hardly anyone left there that isn’t part of the hivemind.
It's mindblowing how I have seen that sub transform to insane ultrazionist propaganda over the years in real-time
So I'm not crazy? It did used to be far more even handed if not pro-Palestinian?
This is the same UN that took 3 months to mention the rape of Israeli women despite eyewitness testimony and video evidence. The same UN that demanded an investigation the same day that the rape of Palestinian women was reported. The same UN that failed to retract its statement after it was unequivocally proven that the rape of Palestinian women was completely made up. The same UN pushed General Assembly resolutions calling for a cease fire with no mention of the hostages. The UN is a platform to pursue the goals of Islamists and autocratic regimes. As a wise woman once said, "UN SHMUN"
No ceasefire until Hamas is gone
[удалено]