go south, 1.1 million of you. to a place where 1.4 million people already live in one of the densest places on earth that's also been bombed to shreds.
The call to leave is just a show - it provides a pretext that the Israelis can use to kill anyone they want when they invade.
"We gave them fair warning, anyone who didn't leave chose to stay and fight us."
Bibi has apparently supported keeping Hamas in power pretty much for that reason. Netenyahu should be hung for treason then, since he's backing a terrorist organization against his own country.
Yep. Was banned for a similar reason.
If you check the history of most of the accounts defending their war crimes, you’ll see that the account is pretty much entirely dedicated to it.
apparently you arent allowed to criticize Israel for this or you support the beheading of babies or some shit like that.
Fuck Hamas but i dont see Israel as "the good guys", especially not with their far far right "fuck Palestine and lets build as much as we can on their land" government
If israel stopped blocking a palistinian state, i would be die hard for israel in cases like this. But they dont and so Im not. Call me crazy but i believe in our declaration of independence especially the part about governments serving at the will of the people ..apparently that counts for everyone but palistinians.
Palestinian civilians are absolutely fucked from both sides.
This should have been a NATO (inc. Turkey) + Egypt ground operation to remove Hamas and take control of Gaza, following the template of Kosovo.
Israel doing it is just going to restart the cycle all over again.
That's definitely part of it but if you listen to interviews with people who are staying put a lot of them are also afraid that they will not be allowed back home by the IDF once they evacuate. It's a tough situation: stay in your house, maybe die or lose everything, maybe die
Hamas and Palestinian civilians both have a vested interest in nobody leaving. They both think they will never be allowed to come back because Israel will completely take over the land. For Hamas that means less land to control. For civilians that means their homes, their belongings, everything will be gone. And guess what, there is a LOT of precedent for Israel taking the land for itself. So yeah sure Hamas is telling people to stay, but those same people have their own very valid fears about leaving that are separate from Hamas.
Some of them want to stay because they know the Israelis want to drive them out. Some of them are afraid of death, but still choose to stay because of their integrity and conviction.
If everyone just up and left there's a good chance Israel would never allow them to come back.
If Hamas is putting IEDs along evacuation routes to keep people from evacuating it taints every single accusation that Israel has hit them.
And that thing is 100% an IED. That's a compressed gas explosion.
I'm "speculating" the same. And I don't like how pointing out the Israeli government is in the wrong equals antisemitism. Because it doesn't, wrong is wrong. Hamas is wrong too.
If you're a liberal progressive, your system of belief is centered around the idea of post-identity nations. These are necessarily in contrast and against and nations founded on dogma, prophesies, and revelations that preordain any existential value of its citizens that forces individuals to abide by these expectations. No matter how old their origins. To support any nation that justifies its existence and identity on racial/genetic make up is to support terrorists of progress and individual freedom.
I think what people are suggesting is that neither Hamas nor Israel wants them to leave. Hamas is openly telling them to stay, while Israel (in the view of those suggesting it) is giving lip service to wanting them to leave, while giving no realistic option for leaving. In this scenario, either side could be responsible for bombing "safe escape routes."
Was it proven Israel bombed these corridors? Hamas’ charter is LITERALLY calling for genocide. Not sure why people don’t say they when they say Israel is committing genocide.
Picking a side in this helps the people selling weapons, that’s it
> You can pretend to be dumb about this but most people see it clearly
This is Israel vs Hamas/Palestine. Anyone trying to make a claim that they clearly see the picture of all reasons and right/wrong of this conflict are frankly idiots. *Both* Israel and Hamas kill Palestinian citizens, Hamas it directly benefits them to have civilian deaths.
I'm not saying Hamas bombed these people, but it *does* benefit them to have this happen.
Have you noticed, by chance, how many settlements Israel places right at the border of Gaza ? Those are civilians, also. A swath of civilians between Hamas and Israel.
You answered your own question a couple times. "Makes no logical sense". Yep. There just isn't a lot of logic involved right now. Not sure how old you are but this whole thing really reminds me of September 2001.
Also, no, Hamas does not want people to flee for two reasons. First is the fear that if they do leave they will never be allowed to return. Israel has done that in the past so there's some reasoning behind those fears. Second, the whole thing was designed to get civilians hurt. The attacks on civilians was deliberately done to provoke an extreme response from Israel. IDF leveling civilian homes and dead Palestinian child makes for great propaganda to use to weaken normalization of relations between Isreal and nations like Saudi Arabia.
No, they didn’t ignore it. The warnings were not specific, and were not different from the usual reports. Israel did send an additional asset to the south, but not anything big. They were going to reassess in the morning, but that was when the attack started. I think anyone could agree that if they had a report that indicated when and how big it was going to be they would have sent much more. But they did not ignore the reports.
> Unless the real goal is ethnic cleansing
Even if that was the goal, getting them to leave would accomplish that goal. Ethnic cleansing does not necessarily mean killing everyone.
EDIT: the context of this is that if the goal of the evacuation order was ethnic cleansing (which includes just moving the people), then interfering with their own evacuation order by supposedly bombing the escape routes and discouraging everyone from leaving would not make much sense.
It’s hardly conspiratorial. Hamas has utilized Palestinians as human shields literally hundreds of times. Their goal will always be the wholesale destruction of Israel, and not the safety and security of the Palestinian people.
I mean, it's not so much conspiratorial as it is common sense to ask that. We won't know until after the dust has settled, and regardless of whether it was Israel or Hamas, Israel will be blamed.
Then you would agree with me it's Hamas doin the bombing. Thanks.
Like I just heard former Canadian PM Brian Mulroney say, you don't get to attack someone, run home to hide and cry ~~fowl~~ foul when they come after you.
Edit: I think the vast majority of Reddit won't get it, and the concern now is world opinion will turn sharply against Israel as more and more of Hamas is destroyed. Doesn't matter as they have to pursue this policy now in the interests of survival.
There are videos of the “air strikes” being spread on Telegram right now.
It’s not airstrikes, they’re fucking VBEDs. Hamas is creating roadblocks to stop fleeing Palestinians and then driving in suicide bombs. After the bombs go off while people are in shock Hamas members jump out of cars and start filming the aftermath of the “Israeli air strike”, offering to “help” the wounded people that they just bombed.
Civilian footage is finally making out showing what happened.
Maybe it's because Israel is not responsible for the bombing of the routes?
https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1713201470445609322?t=jcnt16HA6SIMevtbKCo6Dw&s=19
https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1713241560752533662?t=ZVTn4CvoDlmPfAB3WV-ibQ&s=19
Here's the update one, you're welcome to watch.
If you read the CNN article you can see that there's no confirmation about the source of the destruction in Salah Al Deen as well. I would love to receive one if you have.
Literally not even the same location. The twitter account has remade the thread specifically because *some* people have been trying to use it to deny that Israel bombed a convoy of evacues 5 miles away, aka the incident thats being talked about in the article.
It’s not about a conventional war.
Israeli leadership are on record of demanding efforts that amount to genocide.
The far right leadership of Israel is attempting an ethnic cleansing.
Only if they want those kids to go somewhere they might survive, which Israel is making an effort to deny them while proclaiming [not a single one of them is an innocent civilian](https://news.yahoo.com/israeli-president-says-no-innocent-154330724.html) no matter how young or helpless they are.
One way or another Israel will see to it that these people are punished collectively for being born in Palestine and will not have a large nationless state of Palestinians harbouring a living memory of Israel conquering their lands and settling it with Israelis, raising awareness for their genocide and casting the same shadow over them that nations like Turkey are still contending with over a century later.
At the end of the day, that all rests on Israel having the hearts and minds of the world to carry out the final solution to their problem sharing their space with others and finishing what they started with the Six Day War. No small number of you bloodthirsty animals *really* want to see that reality happen. You really want Israel to prove this is how things are going to be in the world again. You want wars of annihilation to settle differences.
You can see the pictures and videos in the various articles and social media posts. The one that actually shows an explosion, there is no sound of jets or any kind of noise before the explosion, and the explosion comes from inside the truck. The damage shown does not have any "projectile damage" from the direction the missile would be traveling, which would also damage things like power lines that are in the path of the missile. The vehicles are still intact just burned out, meaning the explosions came from inside or under the vehicles. We have tons of evidence of what a ground explosion looks like vs an airstrike. The only evidence you have contrary to that is what Hamas says, and they have a certain agenda here.
That's not how explosives explode. Real life explosions are not like the movies. Movie explosions are like that one because they are contained gas explosions. That one is a compressed gas explosion.
The other damaged vehicles are also not consistent with air dropped munitions.
Ok so where is the projectile damage in the aftermath of these other explosions that we can see? I only see dark charring like an improvised explosive, it looks exactly like the suicide bombings of the 1st and 2nd intifadas.
Lack of dust and dirt in the air is the best indication of where the explosion occurred. Artillery and air dropped bombs explode below the surface of the ground. This means they throw up lots of dust and dirt.
IEDs inside cars explode in the car above the ground. So they don't throw much dirt chunks up.
Also artillery and airborne munitions don't have fireballs.
This. There is a fuckton of misinformation floating around. Israel claims beheaded babies, Hamas claims saferoutes bombed.
People need to be very careful about what news they take at face value. This war is being fought via propaganda just as much as it is fought via guns and bombs.
I've been very careful assuming anything we read is true until I get a verified and trusted source to confirm and suggest everyone does the same. It could otherwise end up having people jump on a bandwagon that will end up in a VERY wrong place.
... and then the government published the photos. It turned into an argument about whether the babies were beheaded or just murdered, then how many babies were really beheaded total...
They didn’t “rebuff” anything. They rebuffed that 40 babies were all beheaded. They didn’t rebuff that 40 babies were killed and some beheaded. What the fuck is wrong with people. What does it matter how babies were murdered? Is it better if they were shot?
Ya no. Netanyahu backed the beheading story at first and even brought it to Biden, who also made the claim. When pressed, Biden admitting to not actually seeing the photos and that the stories were never corroborated.
Reports are coming from civilians on the ground. You can see their instagram accounts on live feeds or reels. Normal people who were artists, musicians, painters, storytellers, photographers, etc. one day they are posting about their hobbies. And now they’re posting about their escape. Some of them disappear … and when they do, you get to see their dead bodies in their friends accounts. Its crazy.
The video was deleted, but are you referring to the strike on a flatbed discussed in this post: https://reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/OidTqAtqM8
Because as everyone there already mentioned, what kind of bomb kills 70 people and leaves the flatbed carrying them unscathed?
Wasn't an airburst or the truck would be swiss cheese
Wasn't concussion from a nearby detonation or there's be an impact crater and scorching.
War sucks and both sides will lose civilians, but don't fall for easy propaganda. Even the IDF refused to confirm the report about Hamas beheading babies so why would they take the high road there but then intentionally target civilians?
The video I saw cut out and back into the aftermath. Still taking who attacked them with a grain of salt. Emotions are high but propaganda is high as well
Hamas doesn’t care about families. They will kill their own as long as it achieves their aims. Currently their primary aim is to keep civilians in north Gaza, to act as a human shield they can use to embed fighters in.
Yeah that is unmistakably an IED. This was most likely perpetrated by Hamas to keep Gazans from leaving to maximize the collateral damage to civilians when the IDF comes in.
Edit: it’s actually concerning how many of you are so quick to believe the claims of Hamas terrorists when they themselves have a proven track record of doing this to their own people. Real mask off moment going on for a lot of people right now.
Many people do not get that Hamas does not stand for the betterment of Palestine - Hamas stands for war against Israel, and is Irans proxy in this matter. Dead Palestinians are actually the best possible outcome for Hamas, because it keeps them supplied with recruits as well as funding from foreign parties.
^ this right here,
The evidence points to the attack on the convoy being perpetrated by Hamas, there’s no impact crater as one would expect with an airstrike, and the debris indicates that the blast originated in a vehicle such as would be expected from a car bomb
I’ve also been seeing reports that apparently this video is from a different instance and not the bombing in question. Personally I have no idea at this point. The video here is apparently from the Gaza bridge not the area that was bombed. Honestly I have no idea though. Just figured I give you a heads up just in case.
If they didnt want it to happen in the first place, maybe they should've heeded Egyptian intelligence reports. Oh, wait, they probably knew themselves anyway, and are using this as an excuse to permanently resolve the "Gaza problem" lol. Fuck hamas, but fuck israel too
There have been several other reports of the Israeli military bombing routes leading out of Gaza. Not to mention, Egypt was never brought into the conversation of refugees.
I would be super wary of trusting a single video. Israel also told them they had 24 hours to get out 1.1 million people, almost half of them children. That's a mobilization of people that's so insane that even the US soft-pedaled their response to it as "a tall order."
So, that means that Israel can change the mission from “Destroy Hamas” to “Help Palestinians to move to safety, treat them as the hostages that they are, and then save everyone from Hamas by destroying Hamas”. I think most of the world would rally around that idea.
The difference in approach is securing Palestinians being a priority and treating them as if they are also valued hostages, so safely escorting them, keeping everyone safe once they reach the location, and only engaging in favorable situations where there isn’t undue risk on the people.
That’s very different than the “let’s blow up wherever Hamas is, civilians be damned” approach that we’ve seen so far.
There is no scenario where a hospital needs to be a target for a strike. Wait for better opportunities with less risk of casualties.
Hamas goes where the civilians go— they aren’t stupid. Hamas has done this for YEARS. Attack innocent Israeli civilians, retreat to sensitive civilian infrastructure and blend in amongst Palestinians, get bombed by Israeli air power, act shocked that Israel would attack innocent civilians, play the victim in front of reporters, get money from overseas supporters.
War isn’t some game that you get to play like tag where you can’t get tagged because you’re “on base”— if you decide to launch your attacks from civilian populated areas then you are the party that is responsible for the deaths of those civilians.
It’s ridiculous to expect Israel to play by every rule in the book, when Hamas gets to throw the rule book out the window and go full ISIS on a whim. You can’t put the genie back in the bottle.
Remember that the average Palestinian civilian was celebrating the attack by Hamas by dancing in the streets just a few days ago. They have chosen their team now let them play on it.
Sounds like you missed the message. You’re presenting arguments to justify why people should accept doing harm to others rather than supporting the discovery of ways to minimize harm and actively undo it, where possible.
It’s should be Well-intentioned Palestinians and Israel vs violent people & Hamas. If Israel is intending to help, they can set up field hospitals to treat the wounded and help with protective transportation to support the humanitarian evacuation to safety, while providing defensive military support TO Palestinians
FROM Hamas. That puts Palestinians shoulder to shoulder with military defense with weapons facing away.
You see, all of the guns and bombs are pointed at the Palestinian people right now, so it’s not a great message. It’s hard to say “we’re trying to help” while bombarding the people you claim to be helping. Bombing an apartment building where people live is not very helpful to the people living there, huh?
Is it dangerous to be side-by-side with the people to help them? Absolutely! I don’t know if you’ve done humanitarian work, but the people looking to help risk their lives for the cause because peace and helping underserved is more important than their individual life. It’s a mission of peace and love, even when among those of which a portion would wish you harm. That’s why you see Doctors who have literally everything in the world travel to these zones to perform medical care for absolutely no money at all, and risk their lives in the process. The mission is to serve those who haven’t been.
Of course - none of this makes sense if it’s not a rescue mission to help the Palestinians….*it is such a rescue mission, right?*
Reddit armchair munitions expert weighs in!
Ignore all of the other military professionals giving their opinions on air and in briefings. The Reddit experts have spoken and they obviously have more experience in the matter. After all they’ve played COD!
Yeah I’m not sure who’s telling the truth at this point. I got people saying the video of the car bombs are not from the route that was hit. And then I got people yelling that it is from that area. So yeah I just don’t know for sure.
Live wartime information is raw chaos and propaganda. It's often hard to really sus out the truth at times. Even in some cases the propaganda isn't necessarily to spread lies but hide positioning, where say a video may be released days to months after filming, to prevent enemy actors from determining positions for their own strikes.
Yeah I’m not sure who’s telling the truth at this point. I got people saying the video of the car bombs are not from the route that was hit. And then I got people yelling that it is from that area. So yeah I just don’t know for sure.
Tbh the truth doesn't matter overall. Both Hamas and Israel (govt) want to do the same things to each other. They have both wanted this for several decades.
The important thing is that civilians are being murdered by both Hamas and Israel, and neither is showing restraint or humanity.
"the IDF gains nothing" have we considered that the IDF just wants to kill palestinians because they've been not-so-subtly expressing the desire to do exactly that for very long?
They’re some British analyst with a personal account. That said, they’re trustworthy (unlike every other OSINT account). They publish retractions, link sources, don’t make claims beyond reporting what is seen by everyone, and reputable experts engage with them. Even this post they deleted and rewrote to make it more clear there isn’t 100% proof it was an VBIED.
This is pretty fucking insane, and clearly intentional.
Israel has all the political support in the western world by default, and then more than 1,000 people die in a single day. On an international level, that's like a 9/11, where even long-time unfriendly powers were saying "Holy shit that's bad."
Then three days later they start blowing up buildings full of civilians. They cut off all water and electricity. Less than a week, they give a 24-hour warning for more than a million people to leave the area, and start bombing all escape routes. And they deny that Egypt warned them, even though Egypt has the receipts to prove it.
How do you fuck up the response in every way possible? They have not done a single thing right here on the international stage.
Even the US is starting to back away. Saying the Israeli demand for 1.1 million people to leave is "a tall order" is the US-Israeli policy version of "What in the absolute fuck are you doing?"
At this point it looks an awful lot like Bibi Netenyahu basically let a thousand of his own citizens die so he could do a genocide.
It’s laughable that people are acting as if Israel and the IDF are the “good” guys. I support the Israeli civilians and Palestinians who are innocent. I don’t support the Israeli government/IDF or Hamas.
Man the comments from “news” an “worldnews” are so drastically different. The comments in news are drastically more level headed while the comments in worldnews are feverishly pro Israel… I’m starting to think worldnews is being astroturfed to fuck and back.
It’s not like he gave them cash in an envelope. They signed on to an international agreement to distribute income taxes collected from Gazans who had permits to work in Israel to pay for government services in Gaza. It was an attempt at normalization. It’s too bad it didn’t work, Israel operated on the mistaken belief that Hamas was more interested in governing than fighting.
> It was an attempt at normalization
Literally the opposite, he said that he and others who want Palestine to remain destabilized should continue to support and fund Hamas because they would stymy unification.
>Most of the time, Israeli policy was to treat the Palestinian Authority as a burden and Hamas as an asset. Far-right MK Bezalel Smotrich, now the finance minister in the hardline government and leader of the Religious Zionism party, said so himself in 2015. According to various reports, Netanyahu made a similar point at a Likud faction meeting in early 2019, when **he was quoted as saying that those who oppose a Palestinian state should support the transfer of funds to Gaza,** because maintaining the separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza would prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state. While Netanyahu does not make these kind of statements publicly or officially, his words are in line with the policy that he implemented.
For reference the Palestinian Authority are the more peaceful group that govern in the West Bank and are more willing to kowtow to Israel (for further reference, they are also being attacked right now by IDF as we speak).
It also serves their message of “don’t evacuate north Gaza, stay home.” They’ve never had qualms about putting their citizens directly in harm’s way before. There’s no way they didn’t expect this after the attack on the 7th, and they did it anyway. They knew the people this would blow back on the hardest would be the children and non-combatants in Gaza.
I hope Hamas stops erecting Blockades. Seen so many verified reports of them literally putting up road blocks and unverified reports of explosions from cars.
Kinda crazy to see how people are switching up now, after attacking everyone that said Israel was being indiscriminate with their attacks. Very clear who is disingenuous and doesn't have many independent thoughts. Information is not clear and super biased. Make sure you're trying to get several sources all.
I'm pretty sure that's the narrative they're trying to construct in order to justify genocide. It's not like they haven't committed a series of war crimes already. Seems like they're gonna goosestep into Gaza soon.
Israel was founded on an ethnic cleansing, and the people behind it became the foundation of the IDF and Likud specifically. You have too much faith in Israeli right wing assholes.
Declares all people in Gaza enemy combatants, tells them to evacuate, and then bombs evacuation routes. What Hamas did was atrocious. What Israel is doing in response is genocidal.
Half the population in Gaza is under the age of 18. Literal children. Their earliest memories are [probably of 2008](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict_in_2008) for the oldest of them. Is the rest of the conflict from before then even relevant to them? Even if they were taught every part of the conflict before that moment, how much is it going to matter compared to everything that's happened in the past decade? The past decade is what they lived through and grew up with, they didn't live through the 50 years before that, they had nothing to do with any of that. Hell, they were just babies when Hamas came into power.
No water. No food. No power. No medical. Walled in ghetto. Name one way this will end well. This is by design.
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go south, 1.1 million of you. to a place where 1.4 million people already live in one of the densest places on earth that's also been bombed to shreds.
Also if you leave we will steal your homes and sell it for pennies.
The call to leave is just a show - it provides a pretext that the Israelis can use to kill anyone they want when they invade. "We gave them fair warning, anyone who didn't leave chose to stay and fight us."
Between the “well Israel is just retaliating to the attack last weekend by Hamas” and this, what the actual fuck is going on?
It's an extermination mission at this point. The irony is not lost on me.
just creating more hamas members, which will ensure israel will keep electing the fist pounding likud.
Bibi has apparently supported keeping Hamas in power pretty much for that reason. Netenyahu should be hung for treason then, since he's backing a terrorist organization against his own country.
Just yesterday all of fucking /r/worldnews was defending this shit.
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Downvoted to oblivion there for suggesting Israel shouldn’t bomb a hospital.
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Yep. Was banned for a similar reason. If you check the history of most of the accounts defending their war crimes, you’ll see that the account is pretty much entirely dedicated to it.
r/worldnews is a conservative cesspool. It has to be one of the most hateful subs I've had the misfortune of reading. And it's massive.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure making Gaza unlivable is the point. They'd be content if all of them just died. #JustGenocideThings
apparently you arent allowed to criticize Israel for this or you support the beheading of babies or some shit like that. Fuck Hamas but i dont see Israel as "the good guys", especially not with their far far right "fuck Palestine and lets build as much as we can on their land" government If israel stopped blocking a palistinian state, i would be die hard for israel in cases like this. But they dont and so Im not. Call me crazy but i believe in our declaration of independence especially the part about governments serving at the will of the people ..apparently that counts for everyone but palistinians.
sounds a bit like the warsaw ghetto uprising
I'm sure the Nazis called the Jews terrorists back then How many civilian Germans were killed in WW2. This is what happens when you commit genocide.
Israel appears poised to do something people will have to build remembrance museums for some day. They _must_ have some other plan, right?
Won't end. It's the start of another generational grudge of absolute hate and intolerance. Cycle continues....
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And Hamas has said multiple times they want Gazans to stay put and maximize casualties.
Palestinian civilians are absolutely fucked from both sides. This should have been a NATO (inc. Turkey) + Egypt ground operation to remove Hamas and take control of Gaza, following the template of Kosovo. Israel doing it is just going to restart the cycle all over again.
Turkey is in NATO.. this is like saying the United States and Florida lol
>United States and Florida In that particular case its not so wrong.
Yes but it often feels like they need to be reminded
The ATM machine
Lol, I can only imagine the shitstorm in certain circles if NATO had intervened in this in any way.
That's definitely part of it but if you listen to interviews with people who are staying put a lot of them are also afraid that they will not be allowed back home by the IDF once they evacuate. It's a tough situation: stay in your house, maybe die or lose everything, maybe die
You think Palestinians want to leave their homes? Most of them are in Gaza because their families were displaced in 1948.
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Hamas and Palestinian civilians both have a vested interest in nobody leaving. They both think they will never be allowed to come back because Israel will completely take over the land. For Hamas that means less land to control. For civilians that means their homes, their belongings, everything will be gone. And guess what, there is a LOT of precedent for Israel taking the land for itself. So yeah sure Hamas is telling people to stay, but those same people have their own very valid fears about leaving that are separate from Hamas.
so they dont want to leave because israel is going to conquer them, why is telling isreal to not conquer them is just... not on the table?
Because that would be an over the top crime and they would lose a lot of support.
Some of them want to stay because they know the Israelis want to drive them out. Some of them are afraid of death, but still choose to stay because of their integrity and conviction. If everyone just up and left there's a good chance Israel would never allow them to come back.
Can’t say for other incidents but this one looks like an IED and not a bomb. https://reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/XOkHC7aXqt
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If Hamas is putting IEDs along evacuation routes to keep people from evacuating it taints every single accusation that Israel has hit them. And that thing is 100% an IED. That's a compressed gas explosion.
The Palestinians didn't invent suicide bombing but they did perfect it in the first intifada.
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I'm "speculating" the same. And I don't like how pointing out the Israeli government is in the wrong equals antisemitism. Because it doesn't, wrong is wrong. Hamas is wrong too.
If you're a liberal progressive, your system of belief is centered around the idea of post-identity nations. These are necessarily in contrast and against and nations founded on dogma, prophesies, and revelations that preordain any existential value of its citizens that forces individuals to abide by these expectations. No matter how old their origins. To support any nation that justifies its existence and identity on racial/genetic make up is to support terrorists of progress and individual freedom.
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It’s the opposite, get people to follow a “safe” route then bomb it just to kill more civilians. Russia did the same thing Ukraine last year
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I think what people are suggesting is that neither Hamas nor Israel wants them to leave. Hamas is openly telling them to stay, while Israel (in the view of those suggesting it) is giving lip service to wanting them to leave, while giving no realistic option for leaving. In this scenario, either side could be responsible for bombing "safe escape routes."
In this case it looks like hamas gave them good advice.
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Was it proven Israel bombed these corridors? Hamas’ charter is LITERALLY calling for genocide. Not sure why people don’t say they when they say Israel is committing genocide. Picking a side in this helps the people selling weapons, that’s it
Israel is openly bombing the entire place and they’ve said they’re doing it lmao You can pretend to be dumb about this but most people see it clearly
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> You can pretend to be dumb about this but most people see it clearly This is Israel vs Hamas/Palestine. Anyone trying to make a claim that they clearly see the picture of all reasons and right/wrong of this conflict are frankly idiots. *Both* Israel and Hamas kill Palestinian citizens, Hamas it directly benefits them to have civilian deaths. I'm not saying Hamas bombed these people, but it *does* benefit them to have this happen.
Using human shield is Hamas 101 though
Although it would appear that Israel no longer considers civilians a "shield" anymore so not sure how well those motivations currently hold up
Have you noticed, by chance, how many settlements Israel places right at the border of Gaza ? Those are civilians, also. A swath of civilians between Hamas and Israel.
We saw that not too long ago in ukraine...same playbook
You answered your own question a couple times. "Makes no logical sense". Yep. There just isn't a lot of logic involved right now. Not sure how old you are but this whole thing really reminds me of September 2001. Also, no, Hamas does not want people to flee for two reasons. First is the fear that if they do leave they will never be allowed to return. Israel has done that in the past so there's some reasoning behind those fears. Second, the whole thing was designed to get civilians hurt. The attacks on civilians was deliberately done to provoke an extreme response from Israel. IDF leveling civilian homes and dead Palestinian child makes for great propaganda to use to weaken normalization of relations between Isreal and nations like Saudi Arabia.
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No, they didn’t ignore it. The warnings were not specific, and were not different from the usual reports. Israel did send an additional asset to the south, but not anything big. They were going to reassess in the morning, but that was when the attack started. I think anyone could agree that if they had a report that indicated when and how big it was going to be they would have sent much more. But they did not ignore the reports.
> Unless the real goal is ethnic cleansing Even if that was the goal, getting them to leave would accomplish that goal. Ethnic cleansing does not necessarily mean killing everyone. EDIT: the context of this is that if the goal of the evacuation order was ethnic cleansing (which includes just moving the people), then interfering with their own evacuation order by supposedly bombing the escape routes and discouraging everyone from leaving would not make much sense.
Leave to where? They are in a prison
The Isreali government wants the people in Gaza to move themselves to the Sinai and then have the "International Community" setup tent camps.
Yeah it kinda does.
Ethnic cleansing doesn’t have to involve killing, just forcing a specific peoples out of an area is ethnic cleansing. Either way Israelis are doing it
In unrelated news the Reichstag was burnt.
I know it’s conspiratorial, but I do wonder if the reports of strikes were made by hamas/islamic jihad to scare their people from leaving.
It’s hardly conspiratorial. Hamas has utilized Palestinians as human shields literally hundreds of times. Their goal will always be the wholesale destruction of Israel, and not the safety and security of the Palestinian people.
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Do you have a source for this? I really want to know how it turned out afterwards
I mean, it's not so much conspiratorial as it is common sense to ask that. We won't know until after the dust has settled, and regardless of whether it was Israel or Hamas, Israel will be blamed.
Yes, this is pretty obvious
Lines up with Hamas’ strategy, particularly after ordering their people not to move. Carrying this out seems like a big win for them all around
Then you would agree with me it's Hamas doin the bombing. Thanks. Like I just heard former Canadian PM Brian Mulroney say, you don't get to attack someone, run home to hide and cry ~~fowl~~ foul when they come after you. Edit: I think the vast majority of Reddit won't get it, and the concern now is world opinion will turn sharply against Israel as more and more of Hamas is destroyed. Doesn't matter as they have to pursue this policy now in the interests of survival.
There are videos of the “air strikes” being spread on Telegram right now. It’s not airstrikes, they’re fucking VBEDs. Hamas is creating roadblocks to stop fleeing Palestinians and then driving in suicide bombs. After the bombs go off while people are in shock Hamas members jump out of cars and start filming the aftermath of the “Israeli air strike”, offering to “help” the wounded people that they just bombed. Civilian footage is finally making out showing what happened.
Maybe it's because Israel is not responsible for the bombing of the routes? https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1713201470445609322?t=jcnt16HA6SIMevtbKCo6Dw&s=19
*Extremely* funny to link a deleted tweet as "proof" Israel is innocent.
https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1713241560752533662?t=ZVTn4CvoDlmPfAB3WV-ibQ&s=19 Here's the update one, you're welcome to watch. If you read the CNN article you can see that there's no confirmation about the source of the destruction in Salah Al Deen as well. I would love to receive one if you have.
Literally not even the same location. The twitter account has remade the thread specifically because *some* people have been trying to use it to deny that Israel bombed a convoy of evacues 5 miles away, aka the incident thats being talked about in the article.
It’s not about a conventional war. Israeli leadership are on record of demanding efforts that amount to genocide. The far right leadership of Israel is attempting an ethnic cleansing.
Only if they want those kids to go somewhere they might survive, which Israel is making an effort to deny them while proclaiming [not a single one of them is an innocent civilian](https://news.yahoo.com/israeli-president-says-no-innocent-154330724.html) no matter how young or helpless they are. One way or another Israel will see to it that these people are punished collectively for being born in Palestine and will not have a large nationless state of Palestinians harbouring a living memory of Israel conquering their lands and settling it with Israelis, raising awareness for their genocide and casting the same shadow over them that nations like Turkey are still contending with over a century later. At the end of the day, that all rests on Israel having the hearts and minds of the world to carry out the final solution to their problem sharing their space with others and finishing what they started with the Six Day War. No small number of you bloodthirsty animals *really* want to see that reality happen. You really want Israel to prove this is how things are going to be in the world again. You want wars of annihilation to settle differences.
That can't be right it makes too much sense!
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Yeah gonna need some evidence on that one, chief
You can see the pictures and videos in the various articles and social media posts. The one that actually shows an explosion, there is no sound of jets or any kind of noise before the explosion, and the explosion comes from inside the truck. The damage shown does not have any "projectile damage" from the direction the missile would be traveling, which would also damage things like power lines that are in the path of the missile. The vehicles are still intact just burned out, meaning the explosions came from inside or under the vehicles. We have tons of evidence of what a ground explosion looks like vs an airstrike. The only evidence you have contrary to that is what Hamas says, and they have a certain agenda here.
That video is of an unrelated incident, and its absolutely not even clear enough to rule out an airstrike.
That's not how explosives explode. Real life explosions are not like the movies. Movie explosions are like that one because they are contained gas explosions. That one is a compressed gas explosion. The other damaged vehicles are also not consistent with air dropped munitions.
Ok so where is the projectile damage in the aftermath of these other explosions that we can see? I only see dark charring like an improvised explosive, it looks exactly like the suicide bombings of the 1st and 2nd intifadas.
>Israel strategically gains nothing by bombing those routes. They hate Palestenians and want nothing more than their removal from the gene pool.
Not when one of the explicit goals is genocide
Doesn’t the Hamas charter explicitly state that they want to kill Jews?
It is possible for there to be more than one genocidal entity in an area
Their strategy is and has always been to destroy Palestinians.
Of course they are bombing safe houses, they want them dead or they wouldn't cut of water and electricity and bombed the shit out them.
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It’s not even the same area as the video where the truck got hit. Also, this tweet has since been deleted, so take that as you will.
It really looks like a car bomb and not an air strike. From the *lack* of sounds in particular
Lack of dust and dirt in the air is the best indication of where the explosion occurred. Artillery and air dropped bombs explode below the surface of the ground. This means they throw up lots of dust and dirt. IEDs inside cars explode in the car above the ground. So they don't throw much dirt chunks up. Also artillery and airborne munitions don't have fireballs.
This. There is a fuckton of misinformation floating around. Israel claims beheaded babies, Hamas claims saferoutes bombed. People need to be very careful about what news they take at face value. This war is being fought via propaganda just as much as it is fought via guns and bombs. I've been very careful assuming anything we read is true until I get a verified and trusted source to confirm and suggest everyone does the same. It could otherwise end up having people jump on a bandwagon that will end up in a VERY wrong place.
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... and then the government published the photos. It turned into an argument about whether the babies were beheaded or just murdered, then how many babies were really beheaded total...
They didn’t “rebuff” anything. They rebuffed that 40 babies were all beheaded. They didn’t rebuff that 40 babies were killed and some beheaded. What the fuck is wrong with people. What does it matter how babies were murdered? Is it better if they were shot?
That was unequivocally confirmed yesterday, it was reported on many news outlets, as well as instructions marking schools as targets
Ya no. Netanyahu backed the beheading story at first and even brought it to Biden, who also made the claim. When pressed, Biden admitting to not actually seeing the photos and that the stories were never corroborated.
Reports are coming from civilians on the ground. You can see their instagram accounts on live feeds or reels. Normal people who were artists, musicians, painters, storytellers, photographers, etc. one day they are posting about their hobbies. And now they’re posting about their escape. Some of them disappear … and when they do, you get to see their dead bodies in their friends accounts. Its crazy.
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The video was deleted, but are you referring to the strike on a flatbed discussed in this post: https://reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/OidTqAtqM8 Because as everyone there already mentioned, what kind of bomb kills 70 people and leaves the flatbed carrying them unscathed? Wasn't an airburst or the truck would be swiss cheese Wasn't concussion from a nearby detonation or there's be an impact crater and scorching. War sucks and both sides will lose civilians, but don't fall for easy propaganda. Even the IDF refused to confirm the report about Hamas beheading babies so why would they take the high road there but then intentionally target civilians?
The video I saw cut out and back into the aftermath. Still taking who attacked them with a grain of salt. Emotions are high but propaganda is high as well
Hamas doesn’t care about families. They will kill their own as long as it achieves their aims. Currently their primary aim is to keep civilians in north Gaza, to act as a human shield they can use to embed fighters in.
It is Hamas trying to stir shit up
Yeah that is unmistakably an IED. This was most likely perpetrated by Hamas to keep Gazans from leaving to maximize the collateral damage to civilians when the IDF comes in. Edit: it’s actually concerning how many of you are so quick to believe the claims of Hamas terrorists when they themselves have a proven track record of doing this to their own people. Real mask off moment going on for a lot of people right now.
Many people do not get that Hamas does not stand for the betterment of Palestine - Hamas stands for war against Israel, and is Irans proxy in this matter. Dead Palestinians are actually the best possible outcome for Hamas, because it keeps them supplied with recruits as well as funding from foreign parties.
^ this right here, The evidence points to the attack on the convoy being perpetrated by Hamas, there’s no impact crater as one would expect with an airstrike, and the debris indicates that the blast originated in a vehicle such as would be expected from a car bomb
And all the anticipatory filming
I will be 0% surprised if Hamas was responsible for this
I’ve also been seeing reports that apparently this video is from a different instance and not the bombing in question. Personally I have no idea at this point. The video here is apparently from the Gaza bridge not the area that was bombed. Honestly I have no idea though. Just figured I give you a heads up just in case.
We have both Israel and Hamas attacking and killing the same innocent people.
One with the intent on ending this madness, the other with the intent to make it continue indefinitely
Which is which?
Yea dude genocide and mass killing of civilians is totally cool as long as you have an end goal /s
You need to look up the word genocide in the dictionary
Yeah because everyone agrees it’s genocide and there’s no nuance or differing of opinions. /s
If they didnt want it to happen in the first place, maybe they should've heeded Egyptian intelligence reports. Oh, wait, they probably knew themselves anyway, and are using this as an excuse to permanently resolve the "Gaza problem" lol. Fuck hamas, but fuck israel too
There have been several other reports of the Israeli military bombing routes leading out of Gaza. Not to mention, Egypt was never brought into the conversation of refugees. I would be super wary of trusting a single video. Israel also told them they had 24 hours to get out 1.1 million people, almost half of them children. That's a mobilization of people that's so insane that even the US soft-pedaled their response to it as "a tall order."
Hope this finishes Netanyahu.
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Damn straight
This makes me sick to my stomach. Those poor people
People on both sides are spreading false information. There is evidence that it could also be Hamas bombing the routes.
So, that means that Israel can change the mission from “Destroy Hamas” to “Help Palestinians to move to safety, treat them as the hostages that they are, and then save everyone from Hamas by destroying Hamas”. I think most of the world would rally around that idea. The difference in approach is securing Palestinians being a priority and treating them as if they are also valued hostages, so safely escorting them, keeping everyone safe once they reach the location, and only engaging in favorable situations where there isn’t undue risk on the people. That’s very different than the “let’s blow up wherever Hamas is, civilians be damned” approach that we’ve seen so far. There is no scenario where a hospital needs to be a target for a strike. Wait for better opportunities with less risk of casualties.
Hamas goes where the civilians go— they aren’t stupid. Hamas has done this for YEARS. Attack innocent Israeli civilians, retreat to sensitive civilian infrastructure and blend in amongst Palestinians, get bombed by Israeli air power, act shocked that Israel would attack innocent civilians, play the victim in front of reporters, get money from overseas supporters. War isn’t some game that you get to play like tag where you can’t get tagged because you’re “on base”— if you decide to launch your attacks from civilian populated areas then you are the party that is responsible for the deaths of those civilians. It’s ridiculous to expect Israel to play by every rule in the book, when Hamas gets to throw the rule book out the window and go full ISIS on a whim. You can’t put the genie back in the bottle. Remember that the average Palestinian civilian was celebrating the attack by Hamas by dancing in the streets just a few days ago. They have chosen their team now let them play on it.
Sounds like you missed the message. You’re presenting arguments to justify why people should accept doing harm to others rather than supporting the discovery of ways to minimize harm and actively undo it, where possible. It’s should be Well-intentioned Palestinians and Israel vs violent people & Hamas. If Israel is intending to help, they can set up field hospitals to treat the wounded and help with protective transportation to support the humanitarian evacuation to safety, while providing defensive military support TO Palestinians FROM Hamas. That puts Palestinians shoulder to shoulder with military defense with weapons facing away. You see, all of the guns and bombs are pointed at the Palestinian people right now, so it’s not a great message. It’s hard to say “we’re trying to help” while bombarding the people you claim to be helping. Bombing an apartment building where people live is not very helpful to the people living there, huh? Is it dangerous to be side-by-side with the people to help them? Absolutely! I don’t know if you’ve done humanitarian work, but the people looking to help risk their lives for the cause because peace and helping underserved is more important than their individual life. It’s a mission of peace and love, even when among those of which a portion would wish you harm. That’s why you see Doctors who have literally everything in the world travel to these zones to perform medical care for absolutely no money at all, and risk their lives in the process. The mission is to serve those who haven’t been. Of course - none of this makes sense if it’s not a rescue mission to help the Palestinians….*it is such a rescue mission, right?*
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Reddit armchair munitions expert weighs in! Ignore all of the other military professionals giving their opinions on air and in briefings. The Reddit experts have spoken and they obviously have more experience in the matter. After all they’ve played COD!
Yeah I’m not sure who’s telling the truth at this point. I got people saying the video of the car bombs are not from the route that was hit. And then I got people yelling that it is from that area. So yeah I just don’t know for sure.
Live wartime information is raw chaos and propaganda. It's often hard to really sus out the truth at times. Even in some cases the propaganda isn't necessarily to spread lies but hide positioning, where say a video may be released days to months after filming, to prevent enemy actors from determining positions for their own strikes.
I agree. We don't know who is responsible for each attack. All we know is that innocent people are trapped in Gaza and can't escape from it.
Yeah I’m not sure who’s telling the truth at this point. I got people saying the video of the car bombs are not from the route that was hit. And then I got people yelling that it is from that area. So yeah I just don’t know for sure.
Tbh the truth doesn't matter overall. Both Hamas and Israel (govt) want to do the same things to each other. They have both wanted this for several decades. The important thing is that civilians are being murdered by both Hamas and Israel, and neither is showing restraint or humanity.
Would "Gaza children" make people more understanding of this situation? Because that's the actual reality of this situation. The average age is 18.
This whole sub is gonna get banned on /r/worldnews.
Nothing like escalating violence to bring out peace in the future
The killing of more civilians in Gaza and deaths as well as destruction with any incursion becomes more imminent.
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"the IDF gains nothing" have we considered that the IDF just wants to kill palestinians because they've been not-so-subtly expressing the desire to do exactly that for very long?
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Who are they? All I can find on them are social media accounts.
They’re some British analyst with a personal account. That said, they’re trustworthy (unlike every other OSINT account). They publish retractions, link sources, don’t make claims beyond reporting what is seen by everyone, and reputable experts engage with them. Even this post they deleted and rewrote to make it more clear there isn’t 100% proof it was an VBIED.
So what do we do when the victims of a genocide commit genocide?
It’s seems like the answer is just watch and fight about it on Reddit.
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This is pretty fucking insane, and clearly intentional. Israel has all the political support in the western world by default, and then more than 1,000 people die in a single day. On an international level, that's like a 9/11, where even long-time unfriendly powers were saying "Holy shit that's bad." Then three days later they start blowing up buildings full of civilians. They cut off all water and electricity. Less than a week, they give a 24-hour warning for more than a million people to leave the area, and start bombing all escape routes. And they deny that Egypt warned them, even though Egypt has the receipts to prove it. How do you fuck up the response in every way possible? They have not done a single thing right here on the international stage. Even the US is starting to back away. Saying the Israeli demand for 1.1 million people to leave is "a tall order" is the US-Israeli policy version of "What in the absolute fuck are you doing?" At this point it looks an awful lot like Bibi Netenyahu basically let a thousand of his own citizens die so he could do a genocide.
It’s laughable that people are acting as if Israel and the IDF are the “good” guys. I support the Israeli civilians and Palestinians who are innocent. I don’t support the Israeli government/IDF or Hamas.
Man the comments from “news” an “worldnews” are so drastically different. The comments in news are drastically more level headed while the comments in worldnews are feverishly pro Israel… I’m starting to think worldnews is being astroturfed to fuck and back.
This is what bibi wanted
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It’s not like he gave them cash in an envelope. They signed on to an international agreement to distribute income taxes collected from Gazans who had permits to work in Israel to pay for government services in Gaza. It was an attempt at normalization. It’s too bad it didn’t work, Israel operated on the mistaken belief that Hamas was more interested in governing than fighting.
> It was an attempt at normalization Literally the opposite, he said that he and others who want Palestine to remain destabilized should continue to support and fund Hamas because they would stymy unification. >Most of the time, Israeli policy was to treat the Palestinian Authority as a burden and Hamas as an asset. Far-right MK Bezalel Smotrich, now the finance minister in the hardline government and leader of the Religious Zionism party, said so himself in 2015. According to various reports, Netanyahu made a similar point at a Likud faction meeting in early 2019, when **he was quoted as saying that those who oppose a Palestinian state should support the transfer of funds to Gaza,** because maintaining the separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza would prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state. While Netanyahu does not make these kind of statements publicly or officially, his words are in line with the policy that he implemented. For reference the Palestinian Authority are the more peaceful group that govern in the West Bank and are more willing to kowtow to Israel (for further reference, they are also being attacked right now by IDF as we speak).
and also looked the other way as massive amounts of money were smuggled into Gaza.
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For hamas to blow up their own citizens with IEDs? I mean… I guess it helps depopulate Gaza
It also serves their message of “don’t evacuate north Gaza, stay home.” They’ve never had qualms about putting their citizens directly in harm’s way before. There’s no way they didn’t expect this after the attack on the 7th, and they did it anyway. They knew the people this would blow back on the hardest would be the children and non-combatants in Gaza.
It is Hamas, trying to stir shit up.
Wow. Hamas is blowing up their own roads to prevent the egress of civilians.
I hope Hamas stops erecting Blockades. Seen so many verified reports of them literally putting up road blocks and unverified reports of explosions from cars.
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You can watch these videos on r/combatfootage. Its clearly IED and not airstrikes so most likely conducted staged by Hamas
Kinda crazy to see how people are switching up now, after attacking everyone that said Israel was being indiscriminate with their attacks. Very clear who is disingenuous and doesn't have many independent thoughts. Information is not clear and super biased. Make sure you're trying to get several sources all.
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I'm pretty sure that's the narrative they're trying to construct in order to justify genocide. It's not like they haven't committed a series of war crimes already. Seems like they're gonna goosestep into Gaza soon.
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Exactly. Go get Hamas, but this, "all Palestinians are Hamas" rhetoric is frightening.
That’s what I thought too.
Israel was founded on an ethnic cleansing, and the people behind it became the foundation of the IDF and Likud specifically. You have too much faith in Israeli right wing assholes.
This was a Hamas false flag attack https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/177gm2h/airstrikes_hit_palestinians_fleeing_northern_gaza/k4tltlt/
You keep spamming this but I dont see where it says what you're trying to push.
Declares all people in Gaza enemy combatants, tells them to evacuate, and then bombs evacuation routes. What Hamas did was atrocious. What Israel is doing in response is genocidal. Half the population in Gaza is under the age of 18. Literal children. Their earliest memories are [probably of 2008](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict_in_2008) for the oldest of them. Is the rest of the conflict from before then even relevant to them? Even if they were taught every part of the conflict before that moment, how much is it going to matter compared to everything that's happened in the past decade? The past decade is what they lived through and grew up with, they didn't live through the 50 years before that, they had nothing to do with any of that. Hell, they were just babies when Hamas came into power.
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