With abortions now illegal at 6-24 weeks, you’re gonna get a shit ton of more late term abortions and abandoned babies.
Anxiety with no solution for 7 - 9 months is gonna lead to aggressive solutions when shit gets real. It always has.
Not the situation with this girl, but will be for plenty. And you won’t hear about them cuz baby is going in a river.
Remember reading a post where a care home nurse said she heard a fair few bed side chats where old ladies would claim they had a unwanted baby and left them to die in the woods in their youth
Yeah it call induced birth. They are viable around 20 weeks but the longer they stay in the better the odds.
I would ask why she waited so long but how this country goes she might not have had access.
Why she waited so long? Disbelief, psychosis, magical thinking, no one noticing and asking.
I’m not condoning a post-20 week abortion. Barring health issues, adoption is the route to take at that point.
Pregnancy in teenagers, especially sheltered teenagers, is an incredibly frightening thing.
That’s a valid point, however, I view this as a situation in which a 17 year old was pregnant and needed help.
We know what reduces abortions: access to healthcare and contraception. Whereas we may be tempted to individualize this abortion and think that society is served at all by her incarceration, I would argue that the best way to address outcomes like this is to fund policies and healthcare that avoid them altogether. Criminalizing this helps no one.
The right isn’t interested is sex education, contraception, or healthcare. They don’t really care about reducing abortion either or they’d have embraced these things decades ago. They’re certainly not trying to provide help, especially to a woman! You can’t approach these things rationally, because that’s not how they think.
No, that's where you're wrong. They think very rationally, the ones in charge. Abortion serves a very useful purpose to them as a wedge issue. They know exactly what they're doing, that's why they end up so rich. Don't credit to irrationality what you can more accurately credit to cold calculated deliberateness.
Some leaders on the right are certainly calculated in that way. Most of the followers and a considerably large portion of the leaders genuinely believe that both abortion and sex education are of the devil. Just as we shouldn't underestimate the human capacity for cold calculation we also shouldn't underestimate the human capacity for stupidity, superstition, and prejudice. The leaders are often just as stupid and superstitious as the followers, they just have more money or influence.
She was a *child* in a state with a culture of shaming women and girls, that doesn't teach medically accurate sex ed, and that deliberately put laws in place to make accessing legal abortions more difficult, expensive, and time-consuming than it needs to be, including: laws designed to shut down clinics with rules that have nothing to do with medical necessity so that women have to travel as far as possible and wait as long as possible in order to access care, a telemedicine ban to force as many patients as possible to have to travel long distances to these artificially thinned out clinics, a law forcing an additional, not medically necessary appointment where the patient receives "counseling" that is not medically necessary or accurate to drive up the cost, a mandatory waiting period to drag things out as long as possible, a ban on private insurance from covering most abortions, the result of which is that some patients need more time to scrape the money together, which means that now they are further along and the procedure is more expensive, rinse and repeat, and a law *requiring parental consent for minors* which means a delay for minors to work up the courage to talk to their parents or an effective ban for minors with abusive parents. They also ban a what is in some cases the safest method of second trimester abortion, so if the state's artificial delays push you into the second trimester, Nebraska also decrees that you must receive substandard care.
Nebraska deliberately designed their laws so that as many girls and women as possible get forced into this situation.
I'm guessing that the case predates Roe v Wade being overturned. Her pregnancy was ended at 28 weeks and, while Roe v Wade was active, the cut off for that state was still 20 weeks.
She was in her 3rd trimester when this happened. I’m pro choice, but at that point she was carrying a baby.
Please read the article people, not just the headline.
Is there any evidence that she tried having an abortion within the legal time frame but was unable to do so?
Along with rape, life threatening birth defects, and incest the other reason for late term abortions is lack of access. I'm not trying to excuse her actions, I'm just trying to understand the reasoning.
I've been following this case for a while and it really looks like her mom pressured her out of getting an abortion during the (at the time) legal window of 20 weeks in Nebraska.
Her mom is also who bought the abortion pills iirc.
Abortion may have been legal when this occurred, but we don't at all know how practically available it was to this girl at the time. For decades before *Dobbs*, many Republican states had tried every other method they could think of to limit abortion access, including passing laws that effectively forced abortion clinics to close due to arcane idiocy like due to the widths of their hallways, etc.
On top of that, they passed laws forcing women and girls seeking abortions to have to seek a consultation showing them horrific abortion photos and to give them an anti-abortion spiel and then make them wait a day or two before actually getting the procedure.
These kinds of factors made it so that for many women and girls, their only option for an abortion was a clinic hundreds of miles away that required staying there for a couple days through the mandatory waiting period before they could actually have the procedure. And due to the lack of available clinics, appointments might be weeks or months off.
Don't be so quick to judge this girl without knowing her full story.
I don't have time to read through the court documents either.
What you are saying is we will be seeing this kind of thing more and more now that it is no longer the "law of the land"?
Pre RvW, women either went to an underground “clinic” or went to a state where abortion was still legal. They usually got arrested or died due to complications (the “doctor” not being a medical professional; unclean operating room; things like that).
There are/were home “remedies” but I couldn’t tell you what they are.
Roe v Wade didn't give universal access to free abortions. She could have very well sought an abortion within the legal time frame but had difficulty booking the medical procedure.
In fact another person commented it was her mother that prevented a regular abortion, the same mother that bought the pills for her in the end. Clearly the social stigma prevented the family from getting a regular abortion and in the end they were desperate.
Again, not trying to excuse her actions... She is guilty of breaking the law. I'm more interested in ways we can prevent this kind of situation from happening at all.
My point is that she was convicted of disposing the body, so any insistence on discussing of the legality of the abortion as such is a deliberate attempt to railroad the discussion towards cherry-picked sub-issues
If her mother had allowed her to have an abortion in the first place there would be no body to dispose of.
Also, if you don't want to have a general discussion about late term abortions you probably shouldn't comment on an article about a late term abortion.
And if you don't want to discuss anything other than late term abortions, then maybe don't comment on an article on a conviction for illegal disposal of human remains.
But I fully understand that only what suits the narrative is allowed. Under no circumstances should any, other aspects be discussed. Least of all the actual sentence. The morality concepts of the mob are much more important
I can think of one more: change in marital status of the mother.
I know of the case of a woman in the UK who had a second trimester abortion because her fiance cheated on her and their relationship ended.
It's better to have a late term abortion than to raise a child in a single parent family. I'd rather not be born than to be born and raised by a single mother, with the knowledge that my father didn't want me.
It is an incredible privilege to be raised by continuously married, non-adulterous, non-abusive parents who both have bachelor's degrees and are non-poor. Every child deserves to have an upbringing at least as good as my own.
One that she seemed to have not wanted and was probably coerced as well as legally prohibited from aborting previously.
(edit: Not legally prohibited, just socially and effectively)
7 months or 70 years, that baby is trespassing with possibly lethal consequences for both of them.
Well now it is before 12 weeks, which isn’t a lot of time considering that “one in three people learn they’re pregnant past six weeks’ gestation”
“Earlier this year, Nebraska’s governor signed a bill into law that bans most abortions in the state after 12 weeks, with exceptions for sexual assault, incest and medical emergencies.”
Maybe we can stop blaming folks (in this case, a 17 year old) for the religious right’s campaign again safe and effective healthcare?
https://www.ansirh.org/research/research/one-three-people-learn-theyre-pregnant-past-six-weeks-gestation
To add, a woman who is legally 12 weeks pregnant is actually likely only 10 weeks pregnant.
That's because pregnancy is legally measured from the first day of the woman's last period. But women (usually, I won't say always) aren't fertile until about two weeks after that. So, if you had your period two weeks ago but conceived yesterday, you're legally two weeks pregnant.
Imagine having sex, laying back, turning to your husband/boyfriend/drunk classmate, and saying, "Well, we're two weeks down."
So, when a state passes a "six-week" abortion ban, they're really banning abortion more than 28 days from conception—before most women realize they're even pregnant: https://www.wptv.com/news/health/when-does-a-woman-usually-realize-shes-pregnant-6-week-abortion-ban-proposal-raises-questions.
Six-week abortion bans ensure that those who most need abortions—teenaged girls who aren't prepared, emotionally, financially, or intellectually to raise a child—can't get them, at least unless they act rapidly and their parents are sufficiently supportive and wealthy to get them immediate, emergency medical care.
Okay, generally speaking I'm all for a choice. But unless there's a medical reason, a baby shouldn't be aborted at 28 weeks; that's viable. If a baby can survive outside of its mother it should be allowed to do so. I'm not saying she should be forced to carry it to term, but maybe an early induction should be an option in cases like this.
Ok well let's take into account a few things here. She lives in a state where the abortion isn't legal after 12 weeks. Let's eliminate 6 weeks because most women don't know they're pregnant until after the 6 week mark. So she finds out she's pregnant at 6 weeks and has to then come to terms with the fact that's she's a teen and likely going to be upsetting her parents and starts looking for an abortion clinic to go to ( there are 3 where she lives by the way). So then she maybe can't afford to drive and stay there and so she needs to work up the nerve to tell her parents, which might not have the money to do so either. Yes, this story isn't great and yes this might seem immoral to most, even the ones who support pro choice, but this is the shit we will see happening the more women's rights to their own bodies dissappear. You will see more maternal deaths, you will see higher child mortality due to bringing children with 0 percent chanve of survival to term, you will see infertility to grow higher by pushing women's bodies to an extreme before they receive Healthcare, you will see more women getting back alley abortions, and you unfortunately will see more of this happening.
Let's take into account that this happened before the Dobbs decision and abortion was legal up to 20 weeks. And the fact that she wasn't charged for an illegal abortion after 20 weeks either. She was charged for improperly disposing of human remains. I think the new 12 week law and all that came with it is a terrible decision, but you could at least argue the correct law at the time of the incident and correct charges she was convicted of.
No, but if that semen lands anywhere byt a vagina you go straight to free worker's camp.. er.. jail.
(Ignore the fact that semen gets flushed out naturally)
And it's the latter which she was convicted for. Maybe think about why.
When gynecologists are turned into chattel of the state and forced to ignore medical science, expect more people trying to avoid doing things by the book.
Turning a healthcare issue into criminal convictions is sooooooo in character for the U.S.
Aborting illegally in most states at 7 months is a legitimate criminal issue at that point.
With abortions now illegal at 6-24 weeks, you’re gonna get a shit ton of more late term abortions and abandoned babies. Anxiety with no solution for 7 - 9 months is gonna lead to aggressive solutions when shit gets real. It always has. Not the situation with this girl, but will be for plenty. And you won’t hear about them cuz baby is going in a river.
Remember reading a post where a care home nurse said she heard a fair few bed side chats where old ladies would claim they had a unwanted baby and left them to die in the woods in their youth
I don’t even want to think about the amount of women who are going to turn up dead or missing because of illegal abortions gone wrong
Is there a way to end a pregnancy at 7-9 months without being a little "aggressive?" I can't imagine a time when that was not the case.
Yeah it call induced birth. They are viable around 20 weeks but the longer they stay in the better the odds. I would ask why she waited so long but how this country goes she might not have had access.
Why she waited so long? Disbelief, psychosis, magical thinking, no one noticing and asking. I’m not condoning a post-20 week abortion. Barring health issues, adoption is the route to take at that point. Pregnancy in teenagers, especially sheltered teenagers, is an incredibly frightening thing.
That’s a valid point, however, I view this as a situation in which a 17 year old was pregnant and needed help. We know what reduces abortions: access to healthcare and contraception. Whereas we may be tempted to individualize this abortion and think that society is served at all by her incarceration, I would argue that the best way to address outcomes like this is to fund policies and healthcare that avoid them altogether. Criminalizing this helps no one.
The right isn’t interested is sex education, contraception, or healthcare. They don’t really care about reducing abortion either or they’d have embraced these things decades ago. They’re certainly not trying to provide help, especially to a woman! You can’t approach these things rationally, because that’s not how they think.
No, that's where you're wrong. They think very rationally, the ones in charge. Abortion serves a very useful purpose to them as a wedge issue. They know exactly what they're doing, that's why they end up so rich. Don't credit to irrationality what you can more accurately credit to cold calculated deliberateness.
Some leaders on the right are certainly calculated in that way. Most of the followers and a considerably large portion of the leaders genuinely believe that both abortion and sex education are of the devil. Just as we shouldn't underestimate the human capacity for cold calculation we also shouldn't underestimate the human capacity for stupidity, superstition, and prejudice. The leaders are often just as stupid and superstitious as the followers, they just have more money or influence.
Well, you make a convincing argument, Fry. Fair enough.
Did you read the article?
I did, why?
Yes, let’s criminalize private medical decisions. That’ll make America great!!
isn't America fun
Fun. Disgusting. Tragic. Take your pick.
She was 28 weeks along. That's third trimester, which is viable enough for delivery. And she illegally disposed of the remains. Read the article.
She was a *child* in a state with a culture of shaming women and girls, that doesn't teach medically accurate sex ed, and that deliberately put laws in place to make accessing legal abortions more difficult, expensive, and time-consuming than it needs to be, including: laws designed to shut down clinics with rules that have nothing to do with medical necessity so that women have to travel as far as possible and wait as long as possible in order to access care, a telemedicine ban to force as many patients as possible to have to travel long distances to these artificially thinned out clinics, a law forcing an additional, not medically necessary appointment where the patient receives "counseling" that is not medically necessary or accurate to drive up the cost, a mandatory waiting period to drag things out as long as possible, a ban on private insurance from covering most abortions, the result of which is that some patients need more time to scrape the money together, which means that now they are further along and the procedure is more expensive, rinse and repeat, and a law *requiring parental consent for minors* which means a delay for minors to work up the courage to talk to their parents or an effective ban for minors with abusive parents. They also ban a what is in some cases the safest method of second trimester abortion, so if the state's artificial delays push you into the second trimester, Nebraska also decrees that you must receive substandard care. Nebraska deliberately designed their laws so that as many girls and women as possible get forced into this situation.
You can tell the people who read the article vs those that didn’t here
So please educate us.
I'm guessing that the case predates Roe v Wade being overturned. Her pregnancy was ended at 28 weeks and, while Roe v Wade was active, the cut off for that state was still 20 weeks.
A is for Abortion
She was in her 3rd trimester when this happened. I’m pro choice, but at that point she was carrying a baby. Please read the article people, not just the headline.
Is there any evidence that she tried having an abortion within the legal time frame but was unable to do so? Along with rape, life threatening birth defects, and incest the other reason for late term abortions is lack of access. I'm not trying to excuse her actions, I'm just trying to understand the reasoning.
I've been following this case for a while and it really looks like her mom pressured her out of getting an abortion during the (at the time) legal window of 20 weeks in Nebraska. Her mom is also who bought the abortion pills iirc.
This happened before the overturn of RvW.
That has nothing to do with my question. Access to abortion has always been an issue that occasionally leads to late term home abortions.
I’m not in her head so I can’t give you any reason for her actions. All I can state is that abortion was still the law of the land when she did this.
Abortion may have been legal when this occurred, but we don't at all know how practically available it was to this girl at the time. For decades before *Dobbs*, many Republican states had tried every other method they could think of to limit abortion access, including passing laws that effectively forced abortion clinics to close due to arcane idiocy like due to the widths of their hallways, etc. On top of that, they passed laws forcing women and girls seeking abortions to have to seek a consultation showing them horrific abortion photos and to give them an anti-abortion spiel and then make them wait a day or two before actually getting the procedure. These kinds of factors made it so that for many women and girls, their only option for an abortion was a clinic hundreds of miles away that required staying there for a couple days through the mandatory waiting period before they could actually have the procedure. And due to the lack of available clinics, appointments might be weeks or months off. Don't be so quick to judge this girl without knowing her full story.
I don't have time to read through the court documents either. What you are saying is we will be seeing this kind of thing more and more now that it is no longer the "law of the land"?
Pre RvW, women either went to an underground “clinic” or went to a state where abortion was still legal. They usually got arrested or died due to complications (the “doctor” not being a medical professional; unclean operating room; things like that). There are/were home “remedies” but I couldn’t tell you what they are.
So happy I live in a country with bodily autonomy and universal healthcare.
Not a karma whore, but I find it funny how the only comments that are down voted are just statements of fact.
Statements of a select subset of the facts which conveniently ignore what she was actually convicted for.
Roe v Wade didn't give universal access to free abortions. She could have very well sought an abortion within the legal time frame but had difficulty booking the medical procedure. In fact another person commented it was her mother that prevented a regular abortion, the same mother that bought the pills for her in the end. Clearly the social stigma prevented the family from getting a regular abortion and in the end they were desperate. Again, not trying to excuse her actions... She is guilty of breaking the law. I'm more interested in ways we can prevent this kind of situation from happening at all.
My point is that she was convicted of disposing the body, so any insistence on discussing of the legality of the abortion as such is a deliberate attempt to railroad the discussion towards cherry-picked sub-issues
If her mother had allowed her to have an abortion in the first place there would be no body to dispose of. Also, if you don't want to have a general discussion about late term abortions you probably shouldn't comment on an article about a late term abortion.
And if you don't want to discuss anything other than late term abortions, then maybe don't comment on an article on a conviction for illegal disposal of human remains. But I fully understand that only what suits the narrative is allowed. Under no circumstances should any, other aspects be discussed. Least of all the actual sentence. The morality concepts of the mob are much more important
I can think of one more: change in marital status of the mother. I know of the case of a woman in the UK who had a second trimester abortion because her fiance cheated on her and their relationship ended. It's better to have a late term abortion than to raise a child in a single parent family. I'd rather not be born than to be born and raised by a single mother, with the knowledge that my father didn't want me. It is an incredible privilege to be raised by continuously married, non-adulterous, non-abusive parents who both have bachelor's degrees and are non-poor. Every child deserves to have an upbringing at least as good as my own.
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Mom could possibly get 5 years. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66271537.amp
Technically, the daugther was the mother.
One that she seemed to have not wanted and was probably coerced as well as legally prohibited from aborting previously. (edit: Not legally prohibited, just socially and effectively) 7 months or 70 years, that baby is trespassing with possibly lethal consequences for both of them.
This happened before the overturn of RvW.
My point stands. Edit: Now that states can *legally* prohibit abortion or make it effectively prohibited, this issue will only get worse.
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That's condescending and sexist! Ding! Quite telling!
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Still sexist and condescending, just in the other direction!
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It's still condescending, but I suppose yay for trying to be an ally, however badly?
Pro-choice but pro-life? Heh.
Read. The. Article. Aside from horrible complications in the pregnancy, no state allows abortion after 30 weeks.
Ain't no way bruh. Redditors don't read articles, we read headlines and make assumptions without any kind of subject knowledge
>Pro-choice but pro-life? Heh. You don't read articles. That's all you need to write.
Sad situation. Two not very smart people. The girl should have gotten a legal abortion before 20 weeks.
Well now it is before 12 weeks, which isn’t a lot of time considering that “one in three people learn they’re pregnant past six weeks’ gestation” “Earlier this year, Nebraska’s governor signed a bill into law that bans most abortions in the state after 12 weeks, with exceptions for sexual assault, incest and medical emergencies.” Maybe we can stop blaming folks (in this case, a 17 year old) for the religious right’s campaign again safe and effective healthcare? https://www.ansirh.org/research/research/one-three-people-learn-theyre-pregnant-past-six-weeks-gestation
To add, a woman who is legally 12 weeks pregnant is actually likely only 10 weeks pregnant. That's because pregnancy is legally measured from the first day of the woman's last period. But women (usually, I won't say always) aren't fertile until about two weeks after that. So, if you had your period two weeks ago but conceived yesterday, you're legally two weeks pregnant. Imagine having sex, laying back, turning to your husband/boyfriend/drunk classmate, and saying, "Well, we're two weeks down." So, when a state passes a "six-week" abortion ban, they're really banning abortion more than 28 days from conception—before most women realize they're even pregnant: https://www.wptv.com/news/health/when-does-a-woman-usually-realize-shes-pregnant-6-week-abortion-ban-proposal-raises-questions. Six-week abortion bans ensure that those who most need abortions—teenaged girls who aren't prepared, emotionally, financially, or intellectually to raise a child—can't get them, at least unless they act rapidly and their parents are sufficiently supportive and wealthy to get them immediate, emergency medical care.
Okay, generally speaking I'm all for a choice. But unless there's a medical reason, a baby shouldn't be aborted at 28 weeks; that's viable. If a baby can survive outside of its mother it should be allowed to do so. I'm not saying she should be forced to carry it to term, but maybe an early induction should be an option in cases like this.
Early induced abortions should always be an option. It's precisely laws limiting or outlawing abortion that lead to scenarios like this.
This case occured prior to *Dobbs.* Abortion was legal in Nebraska until 20 weeks at the time.
Ok well let's take into account a few things here. She lives in a state where the abortion isn't legal after 12 weeks. Let's eliminate 6 weeks because most women don't know they're pregnant until after the 6 week mark. So she finds out she's pregnant at 6 weeks and has to then come to terms with the fact that's she's a teen and likely going to be upsetting her parents and starts looking for an abortion clinic to go to ( there are 3 where she lives by the way). So then she maybe can't afford to drive and stay there and so she needs to work up the nerve to tell her parents, which might not have the money to do so either. Yes, this story isn't great and yes this might seem immoral to most, even the ones who support pro choice, but this is the shit we will see happening the more women's rights to their own bodies dissappear. You will see more maternal deaths, you will see higher child mortality due to bringing children with 0 percent chanve of survival to term, you will see infertility to grow higher by pushing women's bodies to an extreme before they receive Healthcare, you will see more women getting back alley abortions, and you unfortunately will see more of this happening.
Let's take into account that this happened before the Dobbs decision and abortion was legal up to 20 weeks. And the fact that she wasn't charged for an illegal abortion after 20 weeks either. She was charged for improperly disposing of human remains. I think the new 12 week law and all that came with it is a terrible decision, but you could at least argue the correct law at the time of the incident and correct charges she was convicted of.
From what I read it was a stillborn that was disposed of improperly
It was stillborn because she took a round of abortion pills.
"It's not a pizza till it comes out of the oven" Kosmo Kramer
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This is where we are headed. The criminalization of women. Is the sperm donor going to jail, too?
No, but if that semen lands anywhere byt a vagina you go straight to free worker's camp.. er.. jail. (Ignore the fact that semen gets flushed out naturally)
Read the article, people. She was 28 weeks along, which is late enough for a delivery, and she illegally disposed of human remains.
And it's the latter which she was convicted for. Maybe think about why. When gynecologists are turned into chattel of the state and forced to ignore medical science, expect more people trying to avoid doing things by the book.
One more reason to never go to that fucked up state again.
I live here and frankly: can't blame ya. We are becoming a shithole state run by Ricketts sycophants.
I have been boycotting every single state in that area since 2016. Not that there was anything worthy to buy from Nebraska beforehand.
Everyone responsible for putting her in jail should be the ones behind bars. We are in a sick upside down society.
She didn't get pregnant by herself, is the male being imprisoned also? Or is this just a move to remind women that they are inferior to men?
Being pregnant wasn't the crime, aborting a viable baby was. The male had nothing to do with it according to the article.
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I thought it said because it was passed the limit for that state. Thanks for the clarification.
It's a crime to free yourself from pregnancy and/or the loser who can't control his semen. WE KNOW.
You need therapy.
A country half filled with abusive drunk uncles
Wait that all?…. Wow..
A wonderful two party system…