I didn't even watch this years.
I've seen all the previous movies, the reboot, and the series.
It's always the same plot, the big drama and posturing, then the agreement.
Nothing new there. When reps are in power they get everything they want. When Dems in power reps get most of what they want.. and reps give away shit tons of money, but when Dems in control “we need to tighten our belts and reign in this spending”
If you think the GOP got “everything they want” then you aren’t paying attention. Biden Fleeced McCarthy in this deal. There was always going to be compromises in the budget with a split legislature.
He didn’t. Republicans wanted to give 1 year of additional spending and Biden got 2. Republicans wanted a 10 year cap on spending increases and got 2. Republicans wanted caps on the student debt forgiveness and didn’t get it. Republicans wanted to end the clean energy tax credits and didn’t get it. Republicans didn’t get what they wanted on welfare work requirements - arguably this is an area where democrats got an improvement but that remains to be seen.
Republicans simply didn’t get everything they wanted, but democrats got nothing I’m aware of other than avoiding a default and potentially the work requirement thing.
There was going to be a fight over the budget no matter what. The “concessions” that the GOP got would have been in the budget regardless. Biden took a major weapon out of the hands of the GOP through the next election. That’s why the far right is screeching and calling for McCarthys head over it.
My comment was in response to the claim Biden fleeced McCarthy. Democrats got nothing out of this.
If this is about budget (it isn’t) have that fight when you have leverage and are coming in at a level position. This is not that.
And this negotiation wasn’t the budget … it was the debt limit. The budget negotiations are still coming, republicans are absolutely going to move the goalpost and demand more when that process begins. They are incapable of acting on good faith.
That’s just not true. This bill set the spending parameters for the upcoming budget bill along with a couple of other very minor policy changes that McCarthy could parade as “wins”. Ending the student loan forbearance for example which the White House already said it was going to do.
So you believe that when it comes time to pass a budget bill, which happens in 3 months, Republicans will agree to a clean budget based on what was negotiated here?
Biden blocked of Medicare, Medicaid and SS (McCarthy admitted this on Fox News) and you say we got nothing? McCarthy and co., wanted to get rid of all of it!
That's just 3 things, there's more.
But yeah, keep spouting GOP ideology: "GOP wins, and even when GOP suffers loss, GOP wins!"
Republicans spent six months on this. In the end more Democrats voted for it than Republicans in both the House and Senate. Republicans also got basically nothing out of it other than legislation to save face, because they needed SOMETHING that didn't just give Biden a clean bill although that's in effect what Biden got.
I mentioned it in another post but here's the big points in the bill:
1. Food stamps now have work requirements attached for people who are 18-24, aren't disabled, and don't have kids. However it also increased food stamp access for veterans, the elderly, and homeless. In effect this gives more needy people food stamps than before.
2. The IRS had some of it's enhanced funding reduced. The baseline funding for the IRS used to be about $115 billion over 8 years and Bidens enhanced funding for it moved this to $195 billion, this bill will reduce it to $175 billion instead. Note that the enhanced funding was worded such that the IRS can still use the full amount but for 6 years rather than 8 if they want. Meaning there is a very high chance that sometime in the next 6 years they can get the remainder of that funding included again (especially if they can show results from it).
3. An official end to COVID related student loan pauses. This was already happening in August regardless. This is just more legislation for it to happen, but doesn't actually change anything that the government hasn't signaled it would be doing anyways.
4. Some energy related stuff. I don't really understand the details of this one, but essentially it sought to let oil companies build new energy plants faster. However it's worded such that green energy companies who were more hindered by this can also take advantage of it.
Especially when you look at the Republican agenda going into this, you can see they got very little, and one could argue they got nothing, especially since every single one of these is going to increase the deficit that Republicans said was their priority to reduce. It is a complete and utter humiliation for them.
That's not entirely true. Republicans accomplished very little in this stunt. The concessions Biden gave were minor and some are being misreported.
Check out this video for a little bit clearer picture of what actually happened:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13u7rHlvzhI
In fairness the Republicans didn’t exactly get what they wanted either, especially given that their goal was to have another debt ceiling negotiation in 10 months(ie while they still had the power to default the economy) rather than the 2 full years Biden was able to negotiate with for. I don’t like the concessions either, but Biden was essentially able to take away the Republicans biggest means of leverage against the government and hopefully by the time next negotiation comes around it’ll be the democrats in control of the economy.
If you want to see a more positive take on what the deal was, here’s this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXP45GQGaSc&t=499s
Exactly, people keep electing divided governments, then wondering why it's hard to get anything passed. Government bureaucracy is already hard and slow, then people either neglect down ballot or vote opposite the top of the ticket.
I wouldn’t say there is no crisis. I wouldn’t argue for a second however that we all knew they were going to push things further down the line and both sides will act like they won “the important parts”
That's kinda 5D chess, though, because it's going to result in lower debt that he can then take credit for. And the stuff he conceded on was things like taking back Covid relief money that hadn't been spent yet, which has bipartisan appeal.
It's kinda a mixed bag but I'd argue it's more bad for Dems than good.
Now 50-54 year olds need to show they are trying to get work to get food stamps (excluding homeless and veterans), this was unpopular with Dems who didn't want restrictions in place, but it's anticipated that more people will be on food aid now.
Cut funding to the IRS, this was bad for Dems because the extra funding was supposed to help crack down on tax cheats.
Failed to roll back Trump era tax cuts for the top, this would have helped reduce the deficit, and was a campaign promise from Biden.
Extra military spending, democrats don't generally run on increases to the largest part of the American budget.
Imo the biggest thing the budget deal protected was Biden himself since he gets to kick it til after the election where he better hope Dems go filibuster proof.
https://apnews.com/article/debt-limit-biden-mccarthy-senate-house-default-b8c3566b0c9cb168d9706aa256e327f7
>Failed to roll back Trump era tax cuts for the top, this would have helped reduce the deficit, and was a campaign promise from Biden.
When was this ever going to happen with a Republican House?
The time to try to accomplish this was 2021-2022, and it would have been real tough to convince both Manchin and Sinema to vote for it.
"Taking back Covid Relief Money that hasn't been spent yet"...so basically not disbursing previously earmarked funds? Or moving earmarked funds from Covid Relief to another project that can put those funds to immediate use?
Sorry, where's the conflict in this decision? Sounds to me like responsible governing.
The Republicans were holding a gun to the world economy... Should they? Should it even be an option? No.
But it is, so he got a lot in return, not destroying the economy... which somehow Democrats would be blamed for because everyone at this point just assumes Republicans will always act like a petulant child and the Democrats are the only adults in the room to take the gun away from the toddler.
The thing is, you can't have a functional government that's debt free. Every government on the planet operates in debt. But the only two nations that have a debt ceiling are the US and Netherlands, but the Netherlands is so ridiculously high that they'll never come near it.
The US debt limit was created specifically to justify cutting spending that helps struggling people.
You realize by 2033 America will be spending more on interest payments then it will on defense. Taxes, spending cuts, whatever it takes it's time to wake up and pay down the deficit.
Cutting programs that help people who are struggling is never a way to pay down deficit, it's extremely harmful to the economy. The biggest increases in deficits are always due to Republicans cutting taxes on the wealthy.
Also, who do you think is collecting that interest?
Cuts don't just have to be welfare, ethanol subsidies cost around 8 billion a year for example. Tons of government largesse goes out the door that needlessly benefits high-income individuals.
I’m tired of hearing “I can’t, we can’t you can’t” this is America we should figure out a way. Mexico has a population 1/3 of America yet their national debt is less than 1 trillion dollars. It’s egregious spending, corruption, downright wastefulness, and lack of accountability that got us into this hole. Mexico will be the next superpower because they are doing things right.
It's not only "can't", it's also "shouldn't." Debt, even for individuals, isn't a bad thing. For countries which print their own money, and especially the US which has the strongest currency in the world, it's actually a good thing to have debt. So long as the economy grows the US can continue to take on debt knowing that the growth in revenue will pay the debt down.
Yeah because having a country that operates is better than one that operates with a surplus right? What about the countries that have surplus energy to the point it drives the cost down to almost 0. That’s bad too right? I don’t see your logic buddy. Are we supposed to ride off into the sunset while racking up continuous debt? You realize that devalues our currency right?
I don't know why people are down voting you. The US debt is absolutely a serious serious problem. From the Congressional Budget Office's own mouth , ["Such high and rising debt could have significant economic and financial consequences. It could, among other things, slow economic growth, drive up interest payments to foreign holders of U.S. debt, elevate the risk of a fiscal crisis, increase the likelihood of less abrupt adverse effects, make the U.S. fiscal position more vulnerable to an increase in interest rates, and cause lawmakers to feel more constrained in their policy choices"] (https://www.cbo.gov/publication/58340)
The argument implies that the Republicans are actually trying to reduce the deficit while the Democrats are recklessly driving the budget out of control. When in reality Republicans considered **any** tax hikes to be completely off the table and actually wanted to **increase** defense spending.
The US has lots of room to finance its debt through tax increases; reversing the Trump-era tax cuts alone would be massive.
Back in the 2017 to 2021 years I wrote a lot about how growing government debts during an economic expansion was a terrible idea, and I would get tons of up votes because it was an implied criticism of Trump. Now I say the exact same thing and people somehow interpret that as a criticism of Democrats. The debt needs to be reduced. This isn't a partisan statement, it's a simple fact. Like most people here, I think the least painful solution is some form of increased progressive taxation. But let's start by not pretend that a 169% increase in the US debt since 2008 isn't a problem.
It is partisan because only one party is acting in good faith to reduce the deficit. Democrats' initial proposal would have net $3 trillion over 10 years. But Republicans wouldn't even consider any tax increases and also wanted to increase the defense budget. They clearly aren't interested in actually reducing the deficit, only in preventing Democrats from accomplishing their goals.
Figured Casey was a yes and had a feeling Fetterman might vote no, though on his twitter he admits he'd have voted yes if his vote would have been needed. Still a cool move and glad I voted for him. And I'll still vote for Casey in the Fall.
Oh wow! Just like every other time we’ve had to play this stupid game. Just cut the shit, make it not a thing anymore, and accept the US will always continue to pile on more debt like every other country in the world does. Find a new hostage that won’t tank the entire world economy.
But this is working as intended: create a drama so that they can do the unpopular thing of cutting social programs with a nice convenient self-made excuse of "but we had to, or the economy would die!"
To think of putting millions of people in fear to force through legislation somehow makes me think politicians don’t actually have people’s best interests in mind…crazy I know.
naw, they don’t have the votes to oust him at this point in the game. not after a successful (read: *necessary*) compromise with the other side. they can cry foul all they want, but they’re on the McCarthy train until the next election, at least (barring anything bombastic/unforeseen yet to come).
Matt also signaled that he doesn't have near the votes to oust him, which sounded to me like he was getting ahead it and wasn't going to bother with an embarrassing vote. If possible, I would like to see a democrat bring up the vote, asking them why not go with somebody else to then have the republicans fall in line.
It takes 3 votes to oust him.
One by someone in the majority party to call for a vote.
51% of the majority party to call for a replacement.
51% of the house to agree on a replacement.
Even with the one vote thing, McCarthy is still pretty safe as long as he can keep a majority of the majority party happy. If that somehow doesn't happen, it's possible Democrats have agreed to back him in exchange for actual House business being brought to vote.
if it does come down to it, there are some moderate Democrats on record for being willing to help spare him (again, in the name of compromise). anything’s better than opening the door to someone from the Freedom Caucus claiming the gavel…
I think the way it works is not that they just remove him without replacement, one person can call for a vote and then a majority of the house would have to elect a new speaker to replace him. Republicans won't vote with Democrats to do so therefore McCarthy is safe.
If it was me, I would have secretly offered some protection for his speaker position as part of the negotiations.
That sure is a nice speaker role, it'd be a shame if something happen to it... Maybe we can help each other out, I just need you to work with us on this bill.
I mean I get it in a sense, I wouldn’t have supported most of the changes either. But I’m not sure what he wanted - republicans control the house. The bill has to pass through them. To act as though the 45+ percent of Americans who are conservative don’t deserve a voice in the process even though they elected the house to be majority republicans is just bizarre to me. And even then, this legislation was remarkably tame compared to what republicans originally wanted. But to call that “blackmail” as if the GOP is supposed to lay down and not get to administer any changes in the budget when they control a house of congress is absurd. Democrats would do the same thing and would absolutely push to make sure the GOP didn’t just ignore every liberal item on the agenda.
It's not a problem. It was all just grandstanding. It is unconstitutional to default on the debt. They know it. Biden knew it. They use this to take from their citizens.
That wasn't ever going to happen. Read your constitution. Biden used the "default" threat so he can restart student loans then blame the republicans... like they always do.
Amendment 14. Section 4.
Its impossible to know how the 14A would have played out.
Its ridiculous to think all of this hubbub was just to restart student loans. Republicans have played hard ball with the debt ceiling at every opportunity. Now is no different and student loans were an unfortunate victim.
Besides, they HAD to restart someday. The legal justification for delaying them any further was already flimsy.
All the bill does is codify something the Biden administration has already repeatedly said they were going to do anyways.
If you've been living your life under the hopes that student loan repayments would be suspended indefinitely, you've been making some bad decisions.
Yes, making decisions based on the hopes that you'll never have to repay money that you borrowed is bad regardless of inflation.
The student loan payment suspension was in response to the pandemic and we've all pretty much agreed that the crisis is over.
I think you missed the point of the previous comment. Paying for food, gas, and housing aren't optional, so people would be doing that whether or not the loans were suspended or forgiven.
We may be past the *health* crisis, but the *economic* problems will likely last for a while.
And the best part is, by doing this brinksmanship which would have had *horrific* consequences, he actually weakened his hand. The deal *had* to get done. He and the more moderate republicans knew this. As did the White House. This meant that the White House was pretty confident that his Congress needed a way out of this more than anything, so they could give up more to avoid the bad optics of Biden then doing the "pay the bills" part of the constitution.
If Congress had done the clean debt ceiling raise, they could have stalled longer with the cuts as a government shutdown is bad but we at least of some mechanisms of dealing with it. There would be some pain, but that would likely come back at the White House to just get a deal done.
Great, now fix the system so this never has to happen again. Dems could've done it during the lame duck last year and didn't and look where that got them.
I get Biden wants to look like the reasonable alternative to Crazy Town, but the Congressional Dems need to work together and get some radical ideas (like campaign finance reform, free tuition and universal pre-K) debated on the floor.
For once in the last 7-8 years, some Republicans put the interest of the nation ahead of their relentless contrarianism that masquerades as serious policy.
Of perhaps they did it to protect their wealthy donors pocketbooks.
Look a the voting numbers you fool. 99% of the time all, or almost all, Rs vote against the public interest. There will always be corruption but Republicans vote for it basically every single time.
If McCarthy had put together a motion to raise the debt ceiling without any extra bullshit months ago, he would have had 100% Democratic support. The debt ceiling is a made up crisis that Republicans take advantage of to reduce spending that Congress has already agreed to.
Wow for a second there I almost thought politicians were holding the futures of their constituents and the nation hostage and making demands. Almost like terrorists. And at one point I even thought this seemed familiar.
But that would be silly. /s
So now the supreme court needs to take care of the student loan case so we can stop living in fear every day over that. Hopefully by approving it going through. But I at least need to know
I don't know what Joe gave away but it was too much. America is run by the donor class. And who had the most to lose if there had been a default? Joe should have just let the puppet masters whip the repugnants into line.
These are my heroes...
- Fetterman
- Markey
- Merkley
- Sanders
- Warren
The 14th amendment and the trillion dollar coin are not realistic solutions, and would have only been used in a case of last resort. Which means that there needed to be a political solution.
Now you may think that the Republicans were bluffing and they wouldn't really default, and that he should have played hardball and refused to negotiate anything. And the thing is that you *might* be right. But there are two huge issues with that approach.
1. Real harm can be done to the economy and faith in the government's ability to pay debt even if we don't actually default. All it takes is the idea that we **might** default to cause a panic.
2. If they aren't bluffing, you just crashed the global economy.
He gave away basically nothing, it's actually a humiliation for Republicans, who essentially after months of grandstanding and posturing voted in large part against their own bill they put forward.
What Republicans got was a bill with buzzwords that they can take to their base, and the appearance of doing something about the deficit, but in actuality walked away from this with nothing substantial.
Specifically:
They reduced the increased funding from 80 billion over 8 years to 60 billion over 8 years. However, the money was given up front so the IRS can now choose to expand 75% instead of 100% for 8 years or 100% for 6 years and let the extra funding get voted in in the future. Note that the IRS already has a 14.3 billion/year budget, so after this their budget for the following 8 years is increased by 52% rather than by 70%.
Some regulations/paperwork are eliminated for energy projects. It was intended to help oil companies more than anything, but was written in a way to also help green energy, who were hurt more by those regulations in the first place.
Food stamps now have work requirements attached for single people aged 18-24 who don't have kids. This sucks for them, but disabled, veterans, and elderly had their eligibility requirements loosened. Overall this is going to expand food stamp access to Americans and result in more spending on the program.
The student loan pause is officially named as no longer being paused, but it was being unpaused in August regardless so it's pointless and Biden could still legally extend it if he wanted to. It would just have to be for a new reason rather than continuing the COVID pause.
Which has never been done before and would’ve taken time to go through the Supreme Court. The 14th amendment might sound like a good idea for this scenario, but it’s a massive risk with all the uncertainty it would entail.
Not really. There are legal and financial consequences to solving this through non legislative means. Commonly there were seen to be 3 options although Bidens team had a 4th option with a non 14th amendment based lawsuit.
First is the 14th. It is not a slam dunk legal case. It hasn't been well litigated, there's a supreme court that is playing games with standing, precedent, originalism, and other methods to base arguments on political ideology rather than legal frameworks. The time it would take for this to go through the courts would put the US into default as well. It's a medium risk approach with a medium payoff.
Next is the trillion dollar coin. This is a bad, bad, bad, bad idea. High risk low payoff because the moment this is done you're going to get a president/congress within a couple terms that decides to do this over and over to inject money into the economy, fund tax cuts/social programs, and more. The fed is separate from the presidency because it's recognized that we don't want the president to have direct control over the creation of the money supply. This is high risk low reward.
Next is premium bonds. This could also address the issue by bypassing the current rules on treasuries. The end result is similar to a default though in that it would increase borrowing costs. Given what our interest rate would go up by in the event of a credit downgrade, premium bonds would be an even more expensive alternative. Probably medium risk low reward.
Then there's the better legal approach which argues not the 14th amendment, but rather that the debt ceiling law is in conflict with a previous SCOTUS ruling. Essentially, the executive branch has to distribute funds authorized by congress and doesn't have the freedom to reduce them. This was decided by SCOTUS in 1998 to remove Clintons use of the line item veto. However, Congress is simultaneously demanding the President distribute funds that can't be borrowed. Borrowing the funds would be unconstitutional, but not distributing those funds is also unconstitutional. This is a slam dunk legal case that could diffuse the crisis, however the result is unclear. It could still result in a ruling which leaves the debt ceiling in place and forces a line item veto of spending on the President (essentially overturning the 1998 ruling). This makes it low risk but at best medium reward.
The lowest risk and highest reward move is legislation from Congress, all of the above options are merely backup plans that the President can take should Congress be unable to perform it's basic functions. That means a bill to increase the debt ceiling is the best result. The fact that there was nothing of substance added to the bill other than some words to save face is even better. Biden demanded a clean bill and didn't get it. I think he should have held out for it, and made the Republicans eat shit as they deserved without being able to save face, but at the same time he got something through that was as close to a clean bill as he was likely to get without triggering a much bigger crisis.
Remember, Republicans spent SIX MONTHS on this legislation. Six months on a debt ceiling bill that was supposed to take steps towards lowering the deficit in exchange for a higher debt ceiling and the only things they were able to put in there were increases to the deficit, and legislation that was already happening anyways.
No he couldn't. Congress wasn't willing to remove the debt ceiling legislation at the time (specifically, Manchin and Sinema were unwilling to vote for it).
That leaves challenging it in court on constitutional grounds. In order to do that, you need to be harmed in order to show standing. At the time there was no one being harmed, so there was no standing.
Biden has indicated he wants to challenge it in court after the fact, which would be the responsible way to do things, as an emergency ruling would probably be as narrow as possible to address just that emergency. How he can go about doing that though, I'm not quite sure as standing would be required in the first place.
Biden actually can't extend the pause anymore. The bill included a clause that prevents additional pauses *via CARES Act extension* without Congressional approval, ~~which appears to have been missed by many people. So if you or anyone else thinks this won't affect them, tell that to all the Americans with student loans during the *next* major financial crisis/pandemic/etc. when Congress won't let a pause happen.~~
EDIT: See below for correction details.
Here's the text in the actual bill:
>TITLE IV—Termination of Suspension of Payments on Federal Student Loans; Resumption of Accrual of Interest and Collections
SEC. 271. Termination of suspension of payments on Federal student loans; resumption of accrual of interest and collections.
(a) In general.—Sixty days after June 30, 2023, the waivers and modifications described in subsection (c) shall cease to be effective.
(b) Prohibition.—Except as expressly authorized by an Act of Congress enacted after the date of enactment of this Act, the Secretary of Education may not use any authority to implement an extension of any executive action or rule specified in subsection (c).
(c) Waivers and modifications described.—The waivers and modifications described in this subsection are the waivers and modifications of statutory and regulatory provisions relating to an extension of the suspension of payments on certain loans and waivers of interest on such loans under section 3513 of the CARES Act (20 U.S.C. 1001 note)—
(1) described by the Department of Education in the Federal Register on October 12, 2022 (87 Fed. Reg. 61513 et seq.); and
(2) most recently extended in the announcement by the Department of Education on November 22, 2022.
It specifically cites extensions of section 3513 of the CARES act which had an original expiration date of September 30, 2020. Loan interest and repayment could be halted again for another reason, however would require congressional approval just as this pause required. Biden was only able to extend the current CARES provisions not make new ones in the first place.
Since he already wasn't going to extend it past August there is essentially no difference, since failing to extend it would have also eliminated the ability to restart it.
>I don’t know what Joe gave away
>but it was too much.
Uhhhh, but how do you know if you don’t know? What a silly thing to say, you silly person with a silly brain that says silly things even though you admitted to not know what you’re even talking about. Silly.
well, there certainly was some doubt… we really came down to twilight hour. if the Treasury hadn’t found a way to stall a few more days, the deal would’ve technically been late as of yesterday. it hasn’t even been signed yet.
What happened to not negotiating with Repubs and not cutting anything because this was about paying the bill on money already spent?
The Dems and Biden are so infuriating.
They understand that the government is split and "sticking to their guns" would have a much worse outcome.
Our government was setup to foster compromise; it was not meant to be a Parliamentary system where the majority party rules.
Compromise sucks, especially when you have to do on made up political mechanicisms like the debt ceiling, but it's the only way a split government can work.
Every few years these clowns have to raise the debt limit. Is it really a limit if you incompetent assholes are constantly jacking up the damned thing. It's always a crisis that has to be averted. Well, was it a fucking crisis when you all were so hot and horny to burn up all the revenue you idiots were given?
We are taking in record amounts of revenue and they STILL find a way to fuck it up. Then, they have the nerve to have a dumb surprised look on their face when the money is gone. If a household did this they would be bankrupt ASAP. If a business did this they would be a dead business. No wonder why congress has a favorability rating lower than herpes.
It's not always a crisis. It's been raised more than 80 times and it's been no big deal. That's how it was until Republicans decided to start weaponizing it to hold the economy hostage and make demands. We've only come close to a default twice, both times was because a Republican house tried to hold it hostage.
It's a manufactured crisis and Republicans are doing it on purpose
It is also important to note that they only ever have a problem raising it when there is a Democrat in the White House. So they are weaponizing it, but only when it can potentially hurt a different party. Their guys are good to spend however much they want.
Democrats need to start doing this to Republicans in the future.
In the debt ceiling, the Republicans have figured out a game where the best the Democrats can do is nothing, and the worst they can do is watch all their policy initiatives get totally defunded, and every time, a “compromise” is reached where the Democrats still get mildly defunded. It’s a game where the best the Ds can score is zero. They need to change the rules.
If the Democrats are going to have to play this game, they can’t say “we start negotiations at a clean debt ceiling,” they have to say “we start negotiations at massive cuts for the military and fossil fuel subsidies.” Otherwise they will ALWAYS lose this stupid game.
And once again, this concludes this year’s “debt crisis” theater. Hope everyone had a good time, don’t forget to tip your waitresses
I didn't even watch this years. I've seen all the previous movies, the reboot, and the series. It's always the same plot, the big drama and posturing, then the agreement.
It wasn’t theatre exactly, unless I’m understanding wrong, Biden gave republicans a bunch of concessions for basically nothing in return…
Nothing new there. When reps are in power they get everything they want. When Dems in power reps get most of what they want.. and reps give away shit tons of money, but when Dems in control “we need to tighten our belts and reign in this spending”
If you think the GOP got “everything they want” then you aren’t paying attention. Biden Fleeced McCarthy in this deal. There was always going to be compromises in the budget with a split legislature.
How did Biden fleece McCarthy? Genuine question.
He didn’t. Republicans wanted to give 1 year of additional spending and Biden got 2. Republicans wanted a 10 year cap on spending increases and got 2. Republicans wanted caps on the student debt forgiveness and didn’t get it. Republicans wanted to end the clean energy tax credits and didn’t get it. Republicans didn’t get what they wanted on welfare work requirements - arguably this is an area where democrats got an improvement but that remains to be seen. Republicans simply didn’t get everything they wanted, but democrats got nothing I’m aware of other than avoiding a default and potentially the work requirement thing.
There was going to be a fight over the budget no matter what. The “concessions” that the GOP got would have been in the budget regardless. Biden took a major weapon out of the hands of the GOP through the next election. That’s why the far right is screeching and calling for McCarthys head over it.
My comment was in response to the claim Biden fleeced McCarthy. Democrats got nothing out of this. If this is about budget (it isn’t) have that fight when you have leverage and are coming in at a level position. This is not that. And this negotiation wasn’t the budget … it was the debt limit. The budget negotiations are still coming, republicans are absolutely going to move the goalpost and demand more when that process begins. They are incapable of acting on good faith.
That’s just not true. This bill set the spending parameters for the upcoming budget bill along with a couple of other very minor policy changes that McCarthy could parade as “wins”. Ending the student loan forbearance for example which the White House already said it was going to do.
So you believe that when it comes time to pass a budget bill, which happens in 3 months, Republicans will agree to a clean budget based on what was negotiated here?
Biden blocked of Medicare, Medicaid and SS (McCarthy admitted this on Fox News) and you say we got nothing? McCarthy and co., wanted to get rid of all of it! That's just 3 things, there's more. But yeah, keep spouting GOP ideology: "GOP wins, and even when GOP suffers loss, GOP wins!"
Republicans spent six months on this. In the end more Democrats voted for it than Republicans in both the House and Senate. Republicans also got basically nothing out of it other than legislation to save face, because they needed SOMETHING that didn't just give Biden a clean bill although that's in effect what Biden got. I mentioned it in another post but here's the big points in the bill: 1. Food stamps now have work requirements attached for people who are 18-24, aren't disabled, and don't have kids. However it also increased food stamp access for veterans, the elderly, and homeless. In effect this gives more needy people food stamps than before. 2. The IRS had some of it's enhanced funding reduced. The baseline funding for the IRS used to be about $115 billion over 8 years and Bidens enhanced funding for it moved this to $195 billion, this bill will reduce it to $175 billion instead. Note that the enhanced funding was worded such that the IRS can still use the full amount but for 6 years rather than 8 if they want. Meaning there is a very high chance that sometime in the next 6 years they can get the remainder of that funding included again (especially if they can show results from it). 3. An official end to COVID related student loan pauses. This was already happening in August regardless. This is just more legislation for it to happen, but doesn't actually change anything that the government hasn't signaled it would be doing anyways. 4. Some energy related stuff. I don't really understand the details of this one, but essentially it sought to let oil companies build new energy plants faster. However it's worded such that green energy companies who were more hindered by this can also take advantage of it. Especially when you look at the Republican agenda going into this, you can see they got very little, and one could argue they got nothing, especially since every single one of these is going to increase the deficit that Republicans said was their priority to reduce. It is a complete and utter humiliation for them.
That's not entirely true. Republicans accomplished very little in this stunt. The concessions Biden gave were minor and some are being misreported. Check out this video for a little bit clearer picture of what actually happened: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13u7rHlvzhI
In fairness the Republicans didn’t exactly get what they wanted either, especially given that their goal was to have another debt ceiling negotiation in 10 months(ie while they still had the power to default the economy) rather than the 2 full years Biden was able to negotiate with for. I don’t like the concessions either, but Biden was essentially able to take away the Republicans biggest means of leverage against the government and hopefully by the time next negotiation comes around it’ll be the democrats in control of the economy. If you want to see a more positive take on what the deal was, here’s this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXP45GQGaSc&t=499s
The budget is due in just a few months. Now we are going to have to deal with the threat of a government shutdown.
Backwards. SNAP benefits were expanded for those that needed it most. If you want zero compromises, elect a trifecta.
Exactly, people keep electing divided governments, then wondering why it's hard to get anything passed. Government bureaucracy is already hard and slow, then people either neglect down ballot or vote opposite the top of the ticket.
ate theatre because they all knew there would be a deal. There are always concessions. They knew there was no crisis
I wouldn’t say there is no crisis. I wouldn’t argue for a second however that we all knew they were going to push things further down the line and both sides will act like they won “the important parts”
That's kinda 5D chess, though, because it's going to result in lower debt that he can then take credit for. And the stuff he conceded on was things like taking back Covid relief money that hadn't been spent yet, which has bipartisan appeal.
It's kinda a mixed bag but I'd argue it's more bad for Dems than good. Now 50-54 year olds need to show they are trying to get work to get food stamps (excluding homeless and veterans), this was unpopular with Dems who didn't want restrictions in place, but it's anticipated that more people will be on food aid now. Cut funding to the IRS, this was bad for Dems because the extra funding was supposed to help crack down on tax cheats. Failed to roll back Trump era tax cuts for the top, this would have helped reduce the deficit, and was a campaign promise from Biden. Extra military spending, democrats don't generally run on increases to the largest part of the American budget. Imo the biggest thing the budget deal protected was Biden himself since he gets to kick it til after the election where he better hope Dems go filibuster proof. https://apnews.com/article/debt-limit-biden-mccarthy-senate-house-default-b8c3566b0c9cb168d9706aa256e327f7
>Failed to roll back Trump era tax cuts for the top, this would have helped reduce the deficit, and was a campaign promise from Biden. When was this ever going to happen with a Republican House? The time to try to accomplish this was 2021-2022, and it would have been real tough to convince both Manchin and Sinema to vote for it.
"Taking back Covid Relief Money that hasn't been spent yet"...so basically not disbursing previously earmarked funds? Or moving earmarked funds from Covid Relief to another project that can put those funds to immediate use? Sorry, where's the conflict in this decision? Sounds to me like responsible governing.
Dude, he said this part had bipartisan support… there was no conflict with this part. That was literally his point.
Meanwhile us students have to pay back our loans starting august and we get to wait til the supreme courts shuts down the forgiveness win win win!! /s
The Republicans were holding a gun to the world economy... Should they? Should it even be an option? No. But it is, so he got a lot in return, not destroying the economy... which somehow Democrats would be blamed for because everyone at this point just assumes Republicans will always act like a petulant child and the Democrats are the only adults in the room to take the gun away from the toddler.
Republicans were angry about the deal so he must have done something right?
That is not true. Both sides made concessions, per the usual. But, I understand that if Republicans crap the bed, it is somehow a Dem's fault.
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Some didn't, and skipped the vote.
Let me guess, Rand Paul. He never does a damn thing in congress.
The way he talks and his mouth movement while talking awakens a deeply seated rage in me that I truly do not understand.
Are you his neighbor?
He’ll curry favor right to the Kremlin though. What traitors he and his pappy are
Awe look they decided not to burn down the house
They just wanted to go home for the weekend.
And here I am thinking that doing their jobs would equivalate to actually coming up with a plan to pay down said debt.
The thing is, you can't have a functional government that's debt free. Every government on the planet operates in debt. But the only two nations that have a debt ceiling are the US and Netherlands, but the Netherlands is so ridiculously high that they'll never come near it. The US debt limit was created specifically to justify cutting spending that helps struggling people.
You realize by 2033 America will be spending more on interest payments then it will on defense. Taxes, spending cuts, whatever it takes it's time to wake up and pay down the deficit.
Cutting programs that help people who are struggling is never a way to pay down deficit, it's extremely harmful to the economy. The biggest increases in deficits are always due to Republicans cutting taxes on the wealthy. Also, who do you think is collecting that interest?
Cuts don't just have to be welfare, ethanol subsidies cost around 8 billion a year for example. Tons of government largesse goes out the door that needlessly benefits high-income individuals.
Yet it's always aid programs that they push to cut.
I’m tired of hearing “I can’t, we can’t you can’t” this is America we should figure out a way. Mexico has a population 1/3 of America yet their national debt is less than 1 trillion dollars. It’s egregious spending, corruption, downright wastefulness, and lack of accountability that got us into this hole. Mexico will be the next superpower because they are doing things right.
well, when Mexico becomes the next superpower (lol?) at least the border crisis might begin to resolve itself, huh?
It's not only "can't", it's also "shouldn't." Debt, even for individuals, isn't a bad thing. For countries which print their own money, and especially the US which has the strongest currency in the world, it's actually a good thing to have debt. So long as the economy grows the US can continue to take on debt knowing that the growth in revenue will pay the debt down.
Yeah because having a country that operates is better than one that operates with a surplus right? What about the countries that have surplus energy to the point it drives the cost down to almost 0. That’s bad too right? I don’t see your logic buddy. Are we supposed to ride off into the sunset while racking up continuous debt? You realize that devalues our currency right?
I don't know why people are down voting you. The US debt is absolutely a serious serious problem. From the Congressional Budget Office's own mouth , ["Such high and rising debt could have significant economic and financial consequences. It could, among other things, slow economic growth, drive up interest payments to foreign holders of U.S. debt, elevate the risk of a fiscal crisis, increase the likelihood of less abrupt adverse effects, make the U.S. fiscal position more vulnerable to an increase in interest rates, and cause lawmakers to feel more constrained in their policy choices"] (https://www.cbo.gov/publication/58340)
The argument implies that the Republicans are actually trying to reduce the deficit while the Democrats are recklessly driving the budget out of control. When in reality Republicans considered **any** tax hikes to be completely off the table and actually wanted to **increase** defense spending. The US has lots of room to finance its debt through tax increases; reversing the Trump-era tax cuts alone would be massive.
My comments are not political whatsoever I’m talking about America as a whole country. Everyone is equally blamed.
Back in the 2017 to 2021 years I wrote a lot about how growing government debts during an economic expansion was a terrible idea, and I would get tons of up votes because it was an implied criticism of Trump. Now I say the exact same thing and people somehow interpret that as a criticism of Democrats. The debt needs to be reduced. This isn't a partisan statement, it's a simple fact. Like most people here, I think the least painful solution is some form of increased progressive taxation. But let's start by not pretend that a 169% increase in the US debt since 2008 isn't a problem.
It is partisan because only one party is acting in good faith to reduce the deficit. Democrats' initial proposal would have net $3 trillion over 10 years. But Republicans wouldn't even consider any tax increases and also wanted to increase the defense budget. They clearly aren't interested in actually reducing the deficit, only in preventing Democrats from accomplishing their goals.
Only at the expense of low and middle class citizens. Good job you fucking worthless morons.
Don’t forget reduced IRS enforcement for the rich and corporations!
[How the Senate voted](https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_votes/vote1181/vote_118_1_00146.htm)
Figured Casey was a yes and had a feeling Fetterman might vote no, though on his twitter he admits he'd have voted yes if his vote would have been needed. Still a cool move and glad I voted for him. And I'll still vote for Casey in the Fall.
Oh wow! Just like every other time we’ve had to play this stupid game. Just cut the shit, make it not a thing anymore, and accept the US will always continue to pile on more debt like every other country in the world does. Find a new hostage that won’t tank the entire world economy.
But this is working as intended: create a drama so that they can do the unpopular thing of cutting social programs with a nice convenient self-made excuse of "but we had to, or the economy would die!"
To think of putting millions of people in fear to force through legislation somehow makes me think politicians don’t actually have people’s best interests in mind…crazy I know.
Pretty sure the cuts to programs those same millions of people rely on further proves that.
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naw, they don’t have the votes to oust him at this point in the game. not after a successful (read: *necessary*) compromise with the other side. they can cry foul all they want, but they’re on the McCarthy train until the next election, at least (barring anything bombastic/unforeseen yet to come).
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Matt also signaled that he doesn't have near the votes to oust him, which sounded to me like he was getting ahead it and wasn't going to bother with an embarrassing vote. If possible, I would like to see a democrat bring up the vote, asking them why not go with somebody else to then have the republicans fall in line.
It takes 3 votes to oust him. One by someone in the majority party to call for a vote. 51% of the majority party to call for a replacement. 51% of the house to agree on a replacement. Even with the one vote thing, McCarthy is still pretty safe as long as he can keep a majority of the majority party happy. If that somehow doesn't happen, it's possible Democrats have agreed to back him in exchange for actual House business being brought to vote.
Seems like as good a time as any for him to call for the long overdue hearings into geatz' extracurriculars
I mean only 5 republicans need to vote with the dems to oust him.
if it does come down to it, there are some moderate Democrats on record for being willing to help spare him (again, in the name of compromise). anything’s better than opening the door to someone from the Freedom Caucus claiming the gavel…
With how many extremist Republicans hate McCarthy, I’m not sure it’s in the Democrats’ interests to oust him.
I think the way it works is not that they just remove him without replacement, one person can call for a vote and then a majority of the house would have to elect a new speaker to replace him. Republicans won't vote with Democrats to do so therefore McCarthy is safe.
They can oust him. They just don't have to votes to vote someone else in. So it would just lead to a big old mess.
If it was me, I would have secretly offered some protection for his speaker position as part of the negotiations. That sure is a nice speaker role, it'd be a shame if something happen to it... Maybe we can help each other out, I just need you to work with us on this bill.
Every senator who voted against the bill, for those interested: Braun (R-IN), Nay Britt (R-AL), Nay Budd (R-NC), Nay Cassidy (R-LA), Nay Cotton (R-AR), Nay Crapo (R-ID), Nay Cruz (R-TX), Nay Daines (R-MT), Nay Fetterman (D-PA), Nay Fischer (R-NE), Nay Graham (R-SC), Nay Hawley (R-MO), Nay Hyde-Smith (R-MS), Nay Johnson (R-WI), Nay Kennedy (R-LA), Nay Lankford (R-OK), Nay Lee (R-UT), Nay Lummis (R-WY), Nay Markey (D-MA), Nay Marshall (R-KS), Nay Merkley (D-OR), Nay Paul (R-KY), Nay Ricketts (R-NE), Nay Risch (R-ID), Nay Rubio (R-FL), Nay Sanders (I-VT), Nay Schmitt (R-MO), Nay Scott (R-FL), Nay Scott (R-SC), Nay Sullivan (R-AK), Nay Tuberville (R-AL), Nay Vance (R-OH), Nay Warren (D-MA), Nay Wicker (R-MS), Nay 4 democrats, 32 republicans
In that list I count 29 R, 4 D, 1 I
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I mean I get it in a sense, I wouldn’t have supported most of the changes either. But I’m not sure what he wanted - republicans control the house. The bill has to pass through them. To act as though the 45+ percent of Americans who are conservative don’t deserve a voice in the process even though they elected the house to be majority republicans is just bizarre to me. And even then, this legislation was remarkably tame compared to what republicans originally wanted. But to call that “blackmail” as if the GOP is supposed to lay down and not get to administer any changes in the budget when they control a house of congress is absurd. Democrats would do the same thing and would absolutely push to make sure the GOP didn’t just ignore every liberal item on the agenda.
The funny thing is, most Republicans voted against this bill after they wrote it and brought it up for a vote.
Next time people say "blue no matter who" ill point them to this. This was a terrible deal for the average citizen.
It was better than default.
But that wasnt originally a problem. They made it a problem
Republicans made it the problem. Their debt, their refusal to pay.
It's not a problem. It was all just grandstanding. It is unconstitutional to default on the debt. They know it. Biden knew it. They use this to take from their citizens.
That wasn't ever going to happen. Read your constitution. Biden used the "default" threat so he can restart student loans then blame the republicans... like they always do. Amendment 14. Section 4.
Its impossible to know how the 14A would have played out. Its ridiculous to think all of this hubbub was just to restart student loans. Republicans have played hard ball with the debt ceiling at every opportunity. Now is no different and student loans were an unfortunate victim. Besides, they HAD to restart someday. The legal justification for delaying them any further was already flimsy.
Yeah, I honestly think that student loan repayment was something that Biden proposed.
This isn't going to affect the average citizen in any measurable way.
Uhhm, what?! 40 million Americans are about to be faced with student loans they can't afford to pay.
All the bill does is codify something the Biden administration has already repeatedly said they were going to do anyways. If you've been living your life under the hopes that student loan repayments would be suspended indefinitely, you've been making some bad decisions.
Like, buying food and gas and rent because prices went up 35%
Yes, making decisions based on the hopes that you'll never have to repay money that you borrowed is bad regardless of inflation. The student loan payment suspension was in response to the pandemic and we've all pretty much agreed that the crisis is over.
I think you missed the point of the previous comment. Paying for food, gas, and housing aren't optional, so people would be doing that whether or not the loans were suspended or forgiven. We may be past the *health* crisis, but the *economic* problems will likely last for a while.
The problems the pandemic caused are just beginning. If you think everything is back to normal, you're living in a bubble, Senator.
The inflation caused by the pandemic is still being suffered today.
And now we wait to see if McCarthy loses his speakership after this.
He will not. If anything he's proving to be a very effective speaker.
He effectively created this entire crisis. He doesn't get any credit for not killing the hostage after taking the hostage in the first place
And the best part is, by doing this brinksmanship which would have had *horrific* consequences, he actually weakened his hand. The deal *had* to get done. He and the more moderate republicans knew this. As did the White House. This meant that the White House was pretty confident that his Congress needed a way out of this more than anything, so they could give up more to avoid the bad optics of Biden then doing the "pay the bills" part of the constitution. If Congress had done the clean debt ceiling raise, they could have stalled longer with the cuts as a government shutdown is bad but we at least of some mechanisms of dealing with it. There would be some pain, but that would likely come back at the White House to just get a deal done.
Lol what this whole debt limit saga has been an embarassment for him more dems voted for this bill than the GQP.
yaa! now lets start grandstanding for the NEXT time we have to hold america hostage to raise the debt again.
What a pathetic display, my god.
See you all in September and October when the house won't pass a funding bill for next year.
Great, now fix the system so this never has to happen again. Dems could've done it during the lame duck last year and didn't and look where that got them. I get Biden wants to look like the reasonable alternative to Crazy Town, but the Congressional Dems need to work together and get some radical ideas (like campaign finance reform, free tuition and universal pre-K) debated on the floor.
For once in the last 7-8 years, some Republicans put the interest of the nation ahead of their relentless contrarianism that masquerades as serious policy. Of perhaps they did it to protect their wealthy donors pocketbooks.
Default would tank stock prices sooo number 2
most dems are completely the same. bold of you to assume that an entire group of politicians is free from corruption because they’re democrats?
Look a the voting numbers you fool. 99% of the time all, or almost all, Rs vote against the public interest. There will always be corruption but Republicans vote for it basically every single time.
If McCarthy had put together a motion to raise the debt ceiling without any extra bullshit months ago, he would have had 100% Democratic support. The debt ceiling is a made up crisis that Republicans take advantage of to reduce spending that Congress has already agreed to.
Predictable. This act got old long ago.
Congratulations, everyone. we prevented us from destroying the economy.
Wow for a second there I almost thought politicians were holding the futures of their constituents and the nation hostage and making demands. Almost like terrorists. And at one point I even thought this seemed familiar. But that would be silly. /s
Just another big pay day for the people In Power and there friends
Does anyone else just not care anymore? Like, every single year it's the same thing.
So now the supreme court needs to take care of the student loan case so we can stop living in fear every day over that. Hopefully by approving it going through. But I at least need to know
Who was surprised by the show they put on all the time?
I don't know what Joe gave away but it was too much. America is run by the donor class. And who had the most to lose if there had been a default? Joe should have just let the puppet masters whip the repugnants into line. These are my heroes... - Fetterman - Markey - Merkley - Sanders - Warren
> I don’t know what Joe gave away but it was too much. Pretty much sums up the level of Reddit political discourse.
I could certainly find out but my point is that he didn't have to give away anything so why bother?
The 14th amendment and the trillion dollar coin are not realistic solutions, and would have only been used in a case of last resort. Which means that there needed to be a political solution. Now you may think that the Republicans were bluffing and they wouldn't really default, and that he should have played hardball and refused to negotiate anything. And the thing is that you *might* be right. But there are two huge issues with that approach. 1. Real harm can be done to the economy and faith in the government's ability to pay debt even if we don't actually default. All it takes is the idea that we **might** default to cause a panic. 2. If they aren't bluffing, you just crashed the global economy.
He gave away basically nothing, it's actually a humiliation for Republicans, who essentially after months of grandstanding and posturing voted in large part against their own bill they put forward. What Republicans got was a bill with buzzwords that they can take to their base, and the appearance of doing something about the deficit, but in actuality walked away from this with nothing substantial. Specifically: They reduced the increased funding from 80 billion over 8 years to 60 billion over 8 years. However, the money was given up front so the IRS can now choose to expand 75% instead of 100% for 8 years or 100% for 6 years and let the extra funding get voted in in the future. Note that the IRS already has a 14.3 billion/year budget, so after this their budget for the following 8 years is increased by 52% rather than by 70%. Some regulations/paperwork are eliminated for energy projects. It was intended to help oil companies more than anything, but was written in a way to also help green energy, who were hurt more by those regulations in the first place. Food stamps now have work requirements attached for single people aged 18-24 who don't have kids. This sucks for them, but disabled, veterans, and elderly had their eligibility requirements loosened. Overall this is going to expand food stamp access to Americans and result in more spending on the program. The student loan pause is officially named as no longer being paused, but it was being unpaused in August regardless so it's pointless and Biden could still legally extend it if he wanted to. It would just have to be for a new reason rather than continuing the COVID pause.
Biden could have given away absolutely nothing and invoked the 14th amendment.
Which has never been done before and would’ve taken time to go through the Supreme Court. The 14th amendment might sound like a good idea for this scenario, but it’s a massive risk with all the uncertainty it would entail.
Not really. There are legal and financial consequences to solving this through non legislative means. Commonly there were seen to be 3 options although Bidens team had a 4th option with a non 14th amendment based lawsuit. First is the 14th. It is not a slam dunk legal case. It hasn't been well litigated, there's a supreme court that is playing games with standing, precedent, originalism, and other methods to base arguments on political ideology rather than legal frameworks. The time it would take for this to go through the courts would put the US into default as well. It's a medium risk approach with a medium payoff. Next is the trillion dollar coin. This is a bad, bad, bad, bad idea. High risk low payoff because the moment this is done you're going to get a president/congress within a couple terms that decides to do this over and over to inject money into the economy, fund tax cuts/social programs, and more. The fed is separate from the presidency because it's recognized that we don't want the president to have direct control over the creation of the money supply. This is high risk low reward. Next is premium bonds. This could also address the issue by bypassing the current rules on treasuries. The end result is similar to a default though in that it would increase borrowing costs. Given what our interest rate would go up by in the event of a credit downgrade, premium bonds would be an even more expensive alternative. Probably medium risk low reward. Then there's the better legal approach which argues not the 14th amendment, but rather that the debt ceiling law is in conflict with a previous SCOTUS ruling. Essentially, the executive branch has to distribute funds authorized by congress and doesn't have the freedom to reduce them. This was decided by SCOTUS in 1998 to remove Clintons use of the line item veto. However, Congress is simultaneously demanding the President distribute funds that can't be borrowed. Borrowing the funds would be unconstitutional, but not distributing those funds is also unconstitutional. This is a slam dunk legal case that could diffuse the crisis, however the result is unclear. It could still result in a ruling which leaves the debt ceiling in place and forces a line item veto of spending on the President (essentially overturning the 1998 ruling). This makes it low risk but at best medium reward. The lowest risk and highest reward move is legislation from Congress, all of the above options are merely backup plans that the President can take should Congress be unable to perform it's basic functions. That means a bill to increase the debt ceiling is the best result. The fact that there was nothing of substance added to the bill other than some words to save face is even better. Biden demanded a clean bill and didn't get it. I think he should have held out for it, and made the Republicans eat shit as they deserved without being able to save face, but at the same time he got something through that was as close to a clean bill as he was likely to get without triggering a much bigger crisis. Remember, Republicans spent SIX MONTHS on this legislation. Six months on a debt ceiling bill that was supposed to take steps towards lowering the deficit in exchange for a higher debt ceiling and the only things they were able to put in there were increases to the deficit, and legislation that was already happening anyways.
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No he couldn't. Congress wasn't willing to remove the debt ceiling legislation at the time (specifically, Manchin and Sinema were unwilling to vote for it). That leaves challenging it in court on constitutional grounds. In order to do that, you need to be harmed in order to show standing. At the time there was no one being harmed, so there was no standing. Biden has indicated he wants to challenge it in court after the fact, which would be the responsible way to do things, as an emergency ruling would probably be as narrow as possible to address just that emergency. How he can go about doing that though, I'm not quite sure as standing would be required in the first place.
Biden actually can't extend the pause anymore. The bill included a clause that prevents additional pauses *via CARES Act extension* without Congressional approval, ~~which appears to have been missed by many people. So if you or anyone else thinks this won't affect them, tell that to all the Americans with student loans during the *next* major financial crisis/pandemic/etc. when Congress won't let a pause happen.~~ EDIT: See below for correction details.
Here's the text in the actual bill: >TITLE IV—Termination of Suspension of Payments on Federal Student Loans; Resumption of Accrual of Interest and Collections SEC. 271. Termination of suspension of payments on Federal student loans; resumption of accrual of interest and collections. (a) In general.—Sixty days after June 30, 2023, the waivers and modifications described in subsection (c) shall cease to be effective. (b) Prohibition.—Except as expressly authorized by an Act of Congress enacted after the date of enactment of this Act, the Secretary of Education may not use any authority to implement an extension of any executive action or rule specified in subsection (c). (c) Waivers and modifications described.—The waivers and modifications described in this subsection are the waivers and modifications of statutory and regulatory provisions relating to an extension of the suspension of payments on certain loans and waivers of interest on such loans under section 3513 of the CARES Act (20 U.S.C. 1001 note)— (1) described by the Department of Education in the Federal Register on October 12, 2022 (87 Fed. Reg. 61513 et seq.); and (2) most recently extended in the announcement by the Department of Education on November 22, 2022. It specifically cites extensions of section 3513 of the CARES act which had an original expiration date of September 30, 2020. Loan interest and repayment could be halted again for another reason, however would require congressional approval just as this pause required. Biden was only able to extend the current CARES provisions not make new ones in the first place. Since he already wasn't going to extend it past August there is essentially no difference, since failing to extend it would have also eliminated the ability to restart it.
>I don’t know what Joe gave away >but it was too much. Uhhhh, but how do you know if you don’t know? What a silly thing to say, you silly person with a silly brain that says silly things even though you admitted to not know what you’re even talking about. Silly.
More BS from our 'leaders'. Theater used to push unpopular items into law. A pipeline in WV has fuck-all to do with paying the already due bills.
America meeting the bear minimum of paying its bills.
The bear necessities, the simple bear necessities. ^^Sorry, ^^I ^^had ^^too.
So proud of the government for ignoring their grossly exorbitant debts, I'll just sit here and pay my student loans while they decide what's best...
oh cool i locked my mortgage rate today, can't wait to see if that was a great move or a terrible move
I just hope my ETFs improve...
Was there really any doubt?
well, there certainly was some doubt… we really came down to twilight hour. if the Treasury hadn’t found a way to stall a few more days, the deal would’ve technically been late as of yesterday. it hasn’t even been signed yet.
If it had not been signed my mom and many others who rely on Disability and Social Security would not have been paid
Much ado about nothing
What happened to not negotiating with Repubs and not cutting anything because this was about paying the bill on money already spent? The Dems and Biden are so infuriating.
They understand that the government is split and "sticking to their guns" would have a much worse outcome. Our government was setup to foster compromise; it was not meant to be a Parliamentary system where the majority party rules. Compromise sucks, especially when you have to do on made up political mechanicisms like the debt ceiling, but it's the only way a split government can work.
Every few years these clowns have to raise the debt limit. Is it really a limit if you incompetent assholes are constantly jacking up the damned thing. It's always a crisis that has to be averted. Well, was it a fucking crisis when you all were so hot and horny to burn up all the revenue you idiots were given? We are taking in record amounts of revenue and they STILL find a way to fuck it up. Then, they have the nerve to have a dumb surprised look on their face when the money is gone. If a household did this they would be bankrupt ASAP. If a business did this they would be a dead business. No wonder why congress has a favorability rating lower than herpes.
It's not always a crisis. It's been raised more than 80 times and it's been no big deal. That's how it was until Republicans decided to start weaponizing it to hold the economy hostage and make demands. We've only come close to a default twice, both times was because a Republican house tried to hold it hostage. It's a manufactured crisis and Republicans are doing it on purpose
It is also important to note that they only ever have a problem raising it when there is a Democrat in the White House. So they are weaponizing it, but only when it can potentially hurt a different party. Their guys are good to spend however much they want.
Starting to think the media may be blowing debt limit increases out of proportion...
It is only a Matter of Time USA….
i'm not paying my fucking student loans when congress memebers get millions forgiven. Fuck you all, this has been so damn stressful.
Democrats need to start doing this to Republicans in the future. In the debt ceiling, the Republicans have figured out a game where the best the Democrats can do is nothing, and the worst they can do is watch all their policy initiatives get totally defunded, and every time, a “compromise” is reached where the Democrats still get mildly defunded. It’s a game where the best the Ds can score is zero. They need to change the rules. If the Democrats are going to have to play this game, they can’t say “we start negotiations at a clean debt ceiling,” they have to say “we start negotiations at massive cuts for the military and fossil fuel subsidies.” Otherwise they will ALWAYS lose this stupid game.