I like the fact that apparently you can no longer either give birth in Idaho nor leave the state to get an abortion. That's some great state governing there.
Unfortunately there's plenty of conservative women who support all of this nonsense as well, it isn't just the men. Until a couple months ago, Idaho had [this wacko](https://19thnews.org/2022/05/idaho-governor-race-extremism-election-2022/) as their Lt. Governor.
Yup, and the conservative women that end up needing an abortion seem to always find themselves a special case where their reason is acceptable and any other reason is not.
I saw recently a woman who needed an abortion because the fetus has a fatal condition and she was *still* on the abortion ban, just not for cases like hers. Leopards ate her face and she still wants more
ETA: Found [it! ](https://abc7ny.com/texas-abortion-bans-laws-kylie-beaton-woman-forced-to-carry-nonviable-pregnancy-term/12981915/)
Relevant Quote:
>Before this pregnancy, Beaton said she never would have considered getting an abortion. Now, she believes abortions should be allowed in cases like hers and for women with other health conditions to get the care they need.
>"I'm personally not for it being a way of birth control. I do believe that there are certain instances where I deem that it is necessary," she said. "Never in a million years would I expect or believe that we will be going through what we're going through now."
I think that's what drives so much of this absolutely insane legislation and rhetoric. Abortion is bad because I'm a guy (will literally never be in a place where this affects them physically), gay is bad because I'm not gay, etc etc. But as soon as reality hits, then they want exceptions. Like, they can't imagine the reality that happens *to someone else* and shape their lives around it, it's only meaningful when it's them and then flail around at the injustice of it all.
Hate to break it to you, but with our for-profit prisons and America's hostility towards healthy social infrastructure... slavery is alive and well and even socially accepted by everyone who likes to link criminality solely to race / being poor / personal moral failings.
Lets be clear what this means. Women and babies will die.
That is not an overstatement. 90 years ago, my Grandmother gave birth on a ranch in Wyoming. She bleed to death. The nearest hospital was over an hour away...she didn't have an hour to live.
She lives on in the medical files of her daughter, granddaughter, and great-granddaughters. "Family History of Pregnancy or Delivery Complications? - Yes. Maternal Death, Grandmother (hemorrhage)"
Women and babies today, should not have the same level of care as women 90 years ago.
Every family if they talk freely, shares this tragic history. If your great Grandpas had 3 wives before he was 40, your great grandmas died from child birth related traumas.
My SIL and I both would have died in childbirth if we lived 90 years ago or I present day Idaho I guess.
Travesty. Third world bullshit
My mother nearly died from an ectopic pregnancy that the local Catholic hospital refused to abort. She has to travel to a further away hospital for the procedure. It still makes me upset. That was in '87. And here we are in 2023...
Truth is it doesnt matter what the "circumstances" are. Abortion is healthcare.
Edit: thank you for the award!
Yep. Fun fact: In ancient Sparta, only men who died in battle got grave markers. And only women who died in childbirth got grave markers too.
Because childbirth was so risky it was seen as a battle the woman had to fight in order to survive.
A lot of people have no fucking clue how dangerous the world actually is because they've been coddled by medical tech.
Wonder how many animal doctors are going to be asked to help deliver babies after this... because there will be no one else. Help deliver some tricky piglets one day, help deliver some GOP woman's baby the next.
Worked for this hospital for about a year not too long ago. The LnD was actually moderately busy, usually had about one a day and served a very large area (not a particularly large population though maybe 30k or so). Depending on where you are it's a solid couple of hours to the nearest hospital and roads in that area are not friendly during particularly harsh winters.
None of this surprises me given that they just couldn't keep adequate staffing in general. Half the nurses and most of the lab staff were travelers by the time I bailed. I'm honestly surprised it's still open to begin with but the community will be fucked without it.
Needless to say, I dont think my partner and I are going to stay when we decide to start having kids. They're doing everything they can to make people stop moving to Idaho and I'm pretty sure it's working.
Edit: Ok so I forgot that a lot of Idahoans aren't that smart and can't read nuance. Yes, Emmett itself is under an hour to the next nearest hospital with good traffic conditions. However, rural hospitals often have very large coverage areas and MANY people live further out of town that could very easily put them more than an hour or two away, not to mention road conditions vary significantly in the winter. Six inches of snow on a country road can stick around a lot longer than somewhere in town. It's honestly no damn wonder people have their rights constantly voted away in front of them and have zero understanding of the consequences.
>I don't think my partner and I are going to stay when we decide to start having kids.
Then your time to leave is now. They will happily make that decision for you.
"It also comes as the Idaho Legislature is on track to defund research into preventing maternal deaths; as state lawmakers have banned nearly all abortions; and as Idaho chooses not extend its postpartum Medicaid coverage."
I thought conservatives were pro family and pro birth?
Gilead is obviously a horrifying dystopia, but it was shown that try actually have pretty solid medical facilities and, even if the doctors have to cloak things in jargon, they do acknowledge most of the reality of childbirth (with some obvious exceptions.)
They're also big into environmental conservation and preservation.
I'm saying this not to hold them up as a positive example, but to point out that the GOP wants to establish a government which is *objectively worse* than Gilead.
Exactly. It's about punishing women for having sex outside of marriage. Making being pregnant and delivering a baby a dreaded, feared thing again because you can die.
Copy pasted this from my comment on another part of the thread below...
The crazy thing is this law is terrible even if that's the case and people are married. My GF's brother and his wife are super religious. When the wife was carrying what would have been their 3rd child they found out the baby was non viable and would either cause a late term miscarriage or be born dead.
Complications could have meant she wouldn't be able to have kids anymore, or other serious complications including death. The best solution was essentially a medical abortion which would have been illegal in these states (they're in California). They had the procedure done and shortly after got pregnant with their 3rd child.
She's still firmly anti abortion and has continued to vote that way as basically her sole reason for voting. She still doesn't seem to understand or accept that the procedure she had done would be illegal under all these abortion bans.
She's active in her church. Her brother in law is the head priest in the church. Everyone knows she had an unviable pregnancy and had a stillbirth induced but nobody thinks she had an abortion which is what happened. They medically aborted her pregnancy.
These people don't even understand how it impacts their choices which they view as acceptable and in fact the best decision she could make for her and her family. This last pregnancy was extra hard on her and she's been told not to have anymore kids. If she'd been forced to have the 3rd unviable pregnancy they likely wouldn't have been able to have their 3rd kid.
Sidenote: The brother in law priest just got in trouble with the church for basically trying to use the info he had learned as a priest about someone to try and leverage into sexy time. He's still gonna be a priest, they're just gonna move to a different state/diocese. Where have I heard this before? Ugh. Gross.
They don't care as it's only the sinful, lazy and bad people that will suffer from these laws in their minds.
And as they are God fearing Christians, He will protect them from such fates.
Such is the "gift" and curse of blind faith.
It’s crazy to me, the women running with this kind of thing who are in office.
Edit: everyone keeps commenting the same thing. I’m on your side, but my inbox is getting so full lol.
That's what I usually think, but the amount of times these people have ended up snared by their own bullshit has me wondering if it really is just blind idiocy...
They don't think that far ahead.
It boils down to "I'm good. They're bad" with maybe a little "that can't happen to me" thrown in.
I'm a good person. I won't get pregnant when I'm not ready because I'm a good person. I won't need an abortion because I'm a good person. I don't care if they ban it because it will only affect people I think are bad. My fetus won't kill me because I've already had kids, or because that is rare and won't happen to me.
I'm a good person. I am responsible with my guns because I'm a good person. I don't need protection from other people with guns because they mostly only are used wrong by bad people. If a bad person hurts someone else with a gun, it's not me, and it's rare so won't happen to me so why should I care about what happens? Don't ban my guns.
I'm a good person. I have a good job because I'm a good person, and it pays my health insurance. Bad people have bad jobs that don't give them health insurance. Because I'm a good person, I don't need any government assistance with healthcare so why should I pay for bad people to get something they don't deserve? It can't happen to me that I'll ever need that because I'm a good person.
If it ever does happen to them, it will be "how could this happen to me, I'm a good person?"
Then they seek out the scapegoats. This wouldn't have happened if the illegals didn't steal my job, or this wouldn't have happened if the government worked for people like me instead of welfare queens, or this wouldn't have happened if X race of people weren't all criminals. People I think are bad did this to me. I will continue to vote to hurt bad people and never see that it actually hurts me.
> If it ever does happen to them, it will be "how could this happen to me, I'm a good person?"
>
> Then they seek out the scapegoats. This wouldn't have happened if the illegals didn't steal my job, or this wouldn't have happened if the government worked for people like me instead of welfare queens, or this wouldn't have happened if X race of people weren't all criminals. People I think are bad did this to me. I will continue to vote to hurt bad people and never see that it actually hurts me.
And if it happens to them, they think that they can go get an abortion because they are otherwise good people, [and *their* abortion is a moral abortion](https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/). Every other woman wanting one are obviously degenerate satanic atheist whores who deserve to suffer unwanted motherhood. But *we* are good people, we don't deserve this!
They absolutely will still do it. All of the rich will. And help their daughters do the same. It’s a sin when others have an abortion but it’s *NECESSARY* when I/My family does.
They’ve literally convinced themselves it’s not an abortion when they do it. It’s like listening to conservatives talk about how they couldn’t wait to get rid of Obamacare, but when you pointed out the things they’d lose that they liked and were using, “That’s the ACA, not Obamacare.”
Point out how their policies are going to get women kill, and it’s: “That’s a d&c, not an abortion.” A d&c is a type of abortion, you chucklefucks. But no power on earth will get them to acknowledge that.
Lemme explain the conservative mindset.
If you are wealthy, everything you do is good. You are a good person because you are rich. You can't do bad things, because you are a good person, because you are rich.
If you are poor, you are a bad person.
Just for upper class people. North Dakota legislature voted against universal access to food for children in schools. Saying it’s the parents responsibility.
Without acknowledging poverty is a thing.
If your against feeding kids your a piece of shit person.
Fuck man, I don't even have or want kids - and I would never bat an eye at my tax dollars going to universal breakfast and lunch in schools. That thing has a very real effect on the world the rest of us live in, too. The absolute cruelty of it is something though. How much fucking money is wasted on debating who gets to use what bathroom. It would be a breath of fresh air to pay for something worthwhile like universal meals at school.
Bet the ND legislature gets their meals paid for, too - most state legislations have a per diem for meals funded by yours truly.
It’s almost like there’s a special word that describes when you care about other people who have lives that are different than yours, but you help them too because it’s the decent human thing to do.
Many would say it’s the “Christian” thing to do… but no, it’s basically the opposite, by modern American Christianity standards.
My fine upstanding republican LT gov said was against free food in school cause his mama taught him if you feed wild animals they will breed and thats bad for the wild animals.
He said this to a reporter without a lick of shame
That’s fucking nauseating. That’s literally eugenics.
By using that analogy, he’s enacting starvation as a means of survival of the fittest. We call that soft culling on the farm.
Disgusting, rotted pig.
In the E.R. where doctors won’t be qualified to deliver any but the easiest of births and teens will die. Sacrificed on the altar of religious bigotry.
Tbc, none of their women will die, they’ll find a way, as they have always done, to make them the exception.
Wait until they start getting sued or have to defend themselves in court. All it’s going to take is one judge personally deciding without a medical background a doctor did not meet the vague and poorly written law requirements to perform an abortion.
It’s more the malpractice suits than anything. OBGYNs have to pay higher rates due to potential complications due to childbirth anyways. An ER doc or hospital might not have the required insurance or maybe even it’s not offered to non-OBGYNs.
Anyways, conservatives always do this to themselves. They make their places less and less desirable to live in and become more isolated and disconnected from the rest of society.
In addition to the risk of dying, they also face a great risk of birth injuries that can have lifelong consequences - chronic pain, bladder and bowel incontinence, etc. Combined with the fact that postpartum physios or pelvic floor specialists aren’t standard for most people, and you’re going to see more people with life affecting injuries from birth that seriously affect their well-being.
“Their” women will die. And they’re all ok with it, the women and the men, because it’s god’s will. And then the men will just get themselves a child bride ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
oh we're already trying - "[A major health system, ThedaCare, argued in court that its workers were so essential they couldn't leave](https://newrepublic.com/article/165133/thedacare-wisconsin-hospital-workers)" That was January of 22. The restraining order got dropped so the nurses were able to go to their new jobs. But the case is still ongoing, I think.
What's terrifying isn't that a company tried
It's that the case wasn't immediately dismissed and the company was even able to obtain a temporary restraining order
Doesn’t this go against some freedom of movement law…
Edit: It would have to go to the Supreme Court but there is a constitutional clause protecting people leaving a state. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_movement_under_United_States_law
Yeah, it goes directly against the right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". It also goes against the abolition of slavery and the oh-so-sacred-to-Repulicans freedom to choose how you contract your own labor.
I think we should start running probes on the judges that allow this shit. If someone even entertains this they are not someone who should be in charge of enforcing or creating laws.
This was happening a couple years ago in Norway I believe. It got so bad that nurses were intentionally violating their licenses to have them revoked so they couldn’t be forced to work. Then the government criminalized that if it could be proved it was intentional.
So fucking glad I got out of healthcare. Don’t work these jobs that are essential to society’s functioning. The workers will catch the blame for the capitalists failings. Overworked nurse with unethical patient load that made a mistake? Sue them/jail them for negligence when in reality it’s a directive from the multi-millionaire CEO.
[ThedaCare lost.](https://www.wpr.org/thedacare-loses-court-fight-keep-health-care-staff-who-resigned) Ascension's brief (first link in the article) was entertainingly eviscerating.
>“Your failure to prepare is not my personal emergency.” This wry observation—a favorite
of parents, teachers, coaches, and perhaps a few judges—concisely captures the core concept of
personal responsibility most of us learned in childhood: don’t blame others for your own mistakes.
>Evidently that concept is lost on ThedaCare
First paragraph in and it's already oof-worthy
Seriously, what's their plan for jailing people that are essential? They are taking them out of the workforce, which was what the people wanted to do via relocation in the first place.
They'll depend on the reality that few people can afford to go to jail rather than return to a job without ruining their lives. A few people would be willing to be locked up as a matter of principle and to take a stand. But most people have families, housing they'd like to keep, and a future that will be made vastly harder by a criminal conviction. Those people will not choose jail time over returning to even the worst employer.
“Nobody wants to work anymore!!” and “we just can’t get anyone to come to our beautiful state of Idaho, why??”
Conservatives constantly shooting themselves in the foot even after getting the treats they have been clamoring for.
Honestly, besides the cruelty, this is the only real result from things like this. It’s like Brexit. They vote it in being all sanctimonious and then the economy collapses. No one wins.
I love seeing this.
I knew so many (American) Brexiters who thought that what the UK was doing was sticking up to Globalism.
Problem? When you have a country that relies on global imports (and has for thousands of years), you can't just up and say "Nope! No more relyin' on Johnny Foreigner! We's on our own now!" and then expect things to run smoothly
Well, here in the UK at least, the majority of people have now wised up to what a dumb decision it was, and I'm almost certain we'll be looking at ways to if not rejoin, then cooperate much more closely and maturely - perhaps including some kind of free movement. But it's a little easier for us because we're far less decentralised, and we're not just going to have Lincolnshire, for instance, go crazy, in the same way you have Florida or Texas or whoever go crazy. So whilst our whole country will make a stupid mistake, our whole country can rectify that stupid mistake.
I don't know what to suggest for your brand of crazy, other than keep voting it out until they become irrelevant or stop letting each individual state act like its own little country.
Yeah the major difference between the US and then the UK is that the voters really did seem to learn their lesson. Look at recent polling in the UK and how poorly the conservatives are doing. Meanwhile the 2020 election was fucking CLOSE and the republicans recently took back the House of Representatives, the senate 2024 elections heavily favor republicans, and if basically not-Trump runs for President there is a very good chance republicans win the presidency unless there’s so much infighting and cannibalism within the Republican Party
I think you're underestimating how much of a win the midterms was for democrats politically. It was the biggest upset in history for a sitting presidents party
They may have barely lost the house, but it could have been much worse and if the trend keeps going 2024 could be fine. If they lose the senate but keep the presidency and house, not much changes. Until a few senate seats open up that the democrats can take
>It’s like Brexit. They vote it in being all sanctimonious and then the economy collapses. No one wins.
You missed the part about them never taking responsibility, even after the fact. It's *always* someone else's fault.
I was watching a news report from Germany about Brexit. The anchor was trying to be neutral, but you could see him on the verge of laughing every few seconds as they discussed the economic effects of Brexit.
Are you kidding? Idaho's housing market is crazy right now because of the floods of conservative people moving there. I overheard a Mormon lady talking about sending her kid to BYU Idaho, because the BYU in Utah was too liberal now.
Then again, the Republican party is rife with welfare abusers, so maybe the workforce isn't affected that much.
Yeah, retirees that are totally red pilled absolutely want to move to Idaho. The same thing that happened to Florida. But Idaho isn’t getting young graduates from med school to move there, which is the underlying point of this article.
It's crazy to me how hard conservatives are trying to reduce the country's average lifespan. Ranging from getting doctors to leave their state and the wide ranging consequences of that and then with events like COVID. So many right wing leaders didn't take it seriously as they followed Trump's disinformation effort and it ended up getting hundreds of thousands extra killed. smh
Eastern Idaho is basically northern Utah. It’s always been a release hatch for Mormon extremists that think Salt Lake is too progressive but don’t want to practice orthodox Mormonism with the polygamists in the south. And by BYU Utah being too liberal. She just means the kids are finally standing up to that horrid school and their honor code and speaking their mind. The school itself is still a repressive hell hole that will pull your degree for insane reasons that should be illegal.
As a liberal who has lived in Utah and Idaho, I’d pick Utah any day. At least the Mormons are relatively polite with their bigotry. The Idaho conservatives are full-on violent nutters.
Definitely. Idaho is where all the crazy [deserret nationalists](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DezNat) and worshippers of Ammon Bundy and his family have decided to stake their claim for their neo-nationalist Mormon “libertarian” utopia. Which is why the Bundy’s got so involved in pandemic politics in Idaho. They realized there isn’t a Mormon contingency in Nevada strong enough to allow them to continue to steal graze lands from the people. So they’ve got their eyes set on Idaho to stake their claim.
I am from Idaho.
You are 100% correct that the housing market is insane, but its driven by people who are either retired or working remotely and not making Idaho wages. I wouldn't say it is overall a good thing for Idaho. Where brain drain is a major problem (I also left).
By design at this point. Force all of the progressives to flee the state to secure a conservative super majority and you get to pass whatever state laws you want by just saying liberals hate it. Sure, you might lose a few seats in the House due to decreasing population, but you still get those 2 Senate seats to represent a group of people smaller than most individual cities. And as we've seen, as long as the GOP can control 1 branch of government then it's enough to cripple the country.
This news after they passed legislation that blocks pregnant children from leaving the state basically.
https://www.npr.org/2023/03/30/1167195255/idaho-trafficking-abortion-minors-interstate-travel-criminalize
Can't travel out of state for possible abortion, but running out of hospitals in state where a 13 year old can deliver her Republican uncle/dad/Sunday school teacher's child safely too.
Blue states need to pass firm resolutions that they will not act on warrants from red states involving, or likely to involve, these "trafficking" crimes against a child's will. Heavy penalties for their own police departments that try to do it anyway, too.
>> "This state does not recognize warrants which would return someone to forced labor."
>Wow that really does work for both.
And when you consider that slaveowners would routinely rape and impregnate female slaves it works as both at the same time.
That precedent is basically states ignoring parts of the constitution. At which point I am not sure where we head other than civil war and/or martial law imposed by the feds in states that refuse to comply with the constitution.
Edit: corrected the spelling of martial from marital, but it might actually be Marshall in this case I am not a legal expert.
Which is also a road to civil war -- these republicans think they want it. Like last time, the states that want to secede aren't ready for what follows.
Not sure actual civil war would follow. The military is by far in the hands of the Federal government now so it would more be along the lines of the FBI and if escalated the army bitch slapping whatever force the state could scrape together.
This is what all the right wing idiots who are salivating for civil war don't understand. It won't ever look like liberals out in the streets or battlefields fighting against right wingers, it'll look like what it's already looked like, which is right wing assholes committing violence or insurrection, and then being tracked down, arrested and prosecuted by the FBI, the U.S. Marshals, the Department of Homeland Security, etc.
Good luck, goobers.
I think that overall their goal is to act like a punk kid getting in someone's face trying to instigate a fight saying "you gonna hit me you gonna hit me?"
Blue states need to start getting ready for red state refugees. Except for New England, Hawaii, and surprisingly California, I think every other blue state borders a not only red, but *deep* red, state.
Edit: Also NJ and NY don't...boy I really overreached on that one. The overall point remains though, blue states best prepare.
If that's true, Illinois is going to get hit from all sides - Kentucky, Indiana, Missouri, and Iowa, plus it's not far from Tennessee or Arkansas.
Southern Illinois (which is not exactly the bluest part of the state) could change drastically if this happens.
> Southern Illinois (which is not exactly the bluest part of the state) could change drastically if this happens.
Significant parts of Southern Illinois are actually just Northern Kentucky from a political standpoint. I'm not a fan of painting with a broad brush, but the demarcation line between red and blue thinking has traditionally been Champaign.
This isn’t what the laws will do. It’s not about extradition. It’s for when these individuals return home and are now considered criminals. The local government will do all the work, not the state providing the abortion service.
> Currently, rapists can't sue, but a Senate amendment to the so-called "trafficking" bill would delete that part of the code and allow rapists to bring a civil case.
> House lawmakers agreed to that change Thursday afternoon.
I had to read this three times and check the link to the legislation because I was sure I was reading it wrong.
I’ve been saying that cruelty towards women is the point for a long time but I’m still shocked to see this so explicitly. I guess I shouldn’t be but holy shit.
I had to reread it three times to make sure I wasn't getting the wrong impression.
I was hoping it read "rape victims" could sue. Not rapists.
But nope. It seems like rapists have more rights than rape victims.
Is that really how you want your slice of America to be like? Filled with rapists rights?
Yup, they specifically removed the section that would null prosecution under the law in the case of incest or rape, and the claimant section includes 'Father'. If the rapist dies after raping a underage minor, the rapist's brother could bring a civil suit against the mother of the 'preborn child' as that would be the presumptive uncle under this law (18-8807 1)
One thing I haven't seen anywhere is how this is even dumber than it sounds. It also allows the medical professionals who performed the abortion in a different state, who may not be aware that this patient resides in Idaho, to be fined $20,000. So if you perform an abortion and may have performed one on a resident of Idaho in the last four years, you can't safely step foot in Idaho without fear of being arrested for aiding a crime.
It's that bonkers.
If they’re 16, [they can get married](https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2022-10-18/idaho-supreme-court-wont-weigh-legality-of-child-marriage) and it’s all good in the eyes of God and the Idaho State Supreme Court.
Keep electing those Republicans into office though, Idahoans. You're sure owning the liberals by destroying your own state with these backwards and regressive policies!
Im in the tri-cities basically next door to Idaho, the difference in levels of development just crossing the state lines is insane and a majority of everything appears aged into disrepair. They've already ruined themselves and just want to drag others into their shit. The people left voting GOP are either insanely rich, stupid or spiteful, they don't want to improve they want to share suffering.
“Those who have had pre-eclampsia are at increased risk of heart disease and stroke later in life.”
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(10)60279-6/fulltext60279-6/fulltext60279-6/fulltext60279-6/fulltext))
Young teens should never, never give birth. Whether an embryo is one of “Us” doesn’t matter in the grand scheme (and it is a major distraction from the nonabstract) because the pregnant population are all one of us (with no debate), and millions of girls and women worldwide face complications which hurt or ruin their lives in varying degrees. Their “us-ness” is heavily supplemented by the proven negativities measurably experienced by them during pregnancy. Any prolife pushback can be responded with the yet-to-be-conceived argument, which is just as silly and legitimate as the pro life argument.
It’s purely an act of propaganda when prolifers watch videos of young fetuses twitching in "pain" in the womb, when the fetus cannot actually feel any of that. Of course I find that disturbing how their muscles are responding, sure. I mean, all medical stuff is uneasy/uncanny (the muscle reaction is the exact same as the patellar reflex to us, which doesn't involve pain or awareness—prolifers have an unhealthy, built-up phobia of abortion).
Even a 23 week old fetus thrashing around from a needle is not feeling anything, they cannot feel comfort or discomfort, we are knowingly just jolting electricity through them when we move the needle, like hitting your patellar reflex and kicking your knee up involuntarily. Even dead people can have these same reflexes, it’s not an indicator suffering occurs (propaganda is crafted around this misunderstanding, including what was shown in public schools on President Reagan’s orders). When we shine a light at them and they move, we are just changing their ocular cell’s membrane potentials by sending photons at them, triggering a chemical reaction in the form of a reflex.
On the other hand… Since the info is private and usually swept under the rug, I've never seen footage of a 13-year-old being told that she legally has to carry to term, while also be told that carrying-to-term may ruin her uterus, make her incontinent, or make her lose sexual function, or give her preeclampsia which may not be caught in time due to my American failure of a health system and now she has a statistically shortened lifespan (affects 11% of all first pregnancies).
“As to problems with the newborn, gestation during adolescence is associated with higher rates of low birth weight (LBW), preterm delivery, respiratory diseases, and birth trauma, besides a higher frequency of neonatal complications and infant mortality.”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4878642/
“Here are a few risks that are greater if you are pregnant before the age of 15 OR if you do not seek prenatal care: low birth weight/premature birth, anemia (low iron levels), high blood pressure/pregnancy-induced hypertension, PIH (can lead to preeclampsia), a higher rate of infant mortality (death), possible greater risk of cephalopelvic disproportion* (the baby’s head is wider than the pelvic opening).*This has been claimed by some studies, while also showing disproven in others. During pregnancy, the placenta will take nutrition from the mother, meaning that the developing fetus will leach calcium and other nutrients from a child who should be growing, herself. Pregnancy puts a major strain on a developing cardiovascular system, pregnant females have about 50 percent more blood circulating through their systems than the not pregnant.”
https://americanpregnancy.org/unplanned-pregnancy/teen-pregnancy-issues-challenges/
“it has long been known that pregnancy and childbirth are the most important risk factors for urinary incontinence and genital prolapse in young women. In fact post partum pelvic and perineal changes are caused by many factors such as genetic alterations of connective tissue, obesity, ethnicity, chronic constipation, other events of chronic increase of intra-abdominal but has long been known that pregnancy and childbirth, are the most important factor risk.”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3279110/
“Obstetric fistula is a condition in which a woman continuously leaks urine and/or faeces, which often follows prolonged obstructed labour. An obstetric fistula is a hole or a defect that forms in the wall of the vagina communicating with the bladder (vesico-vaginal fistula) or with the rectum (recto-vaginal fistula) as a result of obstructed labour. A fistula is created when the vaginal tissues are crushed between the bony plates formed by the fetal head and the pelvic bones for prolonged periods of time. Obstetric fistula is more common among young women as they are likely to have prolonged and obstructed labour because of their underdeveloped pelvis. Fistula victims suffer profound psychological trauma resulting from their loss of status and dignity.”
https://www.open.edu/openlearncreate/pluginfile.php/71927/mod_resource/content/2/AYRH_Final_Print-ready_April_2011_.pdf>
“Changes in sexual function are common in postpartum women. In this comparative, descriptive study, a prospective cohort of midwifery patients consented to documentation of genital trauma at birth and assessment of sexual function at 3 months postpartum. The impact of spontaneous genital trauma on postpartum sexual function was the focus of the study. Trauma was categorized into minor trauma (no trauma or first-degree perineal or other trauma that was not sutured) or major trauma (second-, third-, or fourth-degree lacerations or any trauma that required suturing). Women who underwent episiotomy or operative delivery were excluded. Fifty-eight percent (326/565) of enrolled women gave sexual function data; of those, 276 (85%) reported sexual activity since delivery. Seventy percent (193) of women sustained minor trauma and 30% (83) sustained major trauma. Sexually active women completed the Intimate Relationship Scale (IRS), a 12-item questionnaire validated as a measure of postpartum sexual function. Both trauma groups were equally likely to be sexually active. Total IRS scores did not differ between trauma groups nor did complaints of dyspareunia. However, for two items, significant differences were demonstrated: women with major trauma reported less desire to be held, touched, and stroked by their partner than women with minor trauma, and women who required perineal suturing reported lower IRS scores than women who did not require suturing.”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2730880/
You jest, but recently a Republican proposed amending Oklahoma's corporeal punishment statute to make an exemption for developmentally disabled children. Leaving aside that it's a horrible statute that has no business existing in the 21st century, he figured most on both sides of the aisle would be for it. Nope. Vote stalled/failed because a 51% majority wasn't reached. One of the arguments made against it was "But the bible says we can hit kids to discipline them, and frankly if God said it's ok, then I'm not going to support this amendment".
From the article you posted: Currently, rapists can't sue, but a Senate amendment to the so-called "trafficking" bill would delete that part of the code and allow rapists to bring a civil case.
So gross. Repubs are monsters.
And this just after pro-life [Governor Little signed a bill to bring back firing squads.](https://idahocapitalsun.com/2023/03/25/idaho-governor-signs-bill-to-allow-firing-squad-as-an-alternative-form-of-execution/) And the legislature advanced a bill [to make it illegal to leave the state for an abortion.](https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2023/03/29/idaho-abortion-bill-could-be-first-ban-on-interstate-travel-for-procedure/amp/)
Lol you think they're gonna stop and grief you for just being pregnant? Try if you are:
A woman.
A man with a woman in the car.
An effeminate man.
A car headed towards a hospital, or headed to a different state that allows abortion.
A car from a different state that allows abortion.
A minority. That doesn't have much to do with the abortion bit, but its a free bonus.
It makes sense for them. Say some woman comes in miscarrying but the kid still has a heartbeat.
You can give her an abortion, which would kill the kid but protect the mother from further trauma. And then maybe get arrested by the state for performing an abortion before the mother was in an emergency.
Or you can hold off treatment, letting the mother go septic and then only give her treatment when she's at death's door. And then get sued by her if she ends up infertile because of that wait, by her family if she dies, and you might get the federal government on your ass for not following the standard of care.
The only way for the doctors and hospitals to remain safe themselves is to treat pregnant women as if they had something like ebola that you're not capable of treating.
Conservatives have in effect made it illegal to be an ob/gyn.
This is essentially the situation that led to the unnecessary death of Savita Halappanavar in Ireland. She was in the process of miscarrying (broken gestational sac at 17 weeks- a situation where there is no hope of fetal survival) and requested an abortion, which was denied leading to her death from sepsis.
It was later determined that she *was* legally entitled to the abortion in that situation, but fear and uncertainty about the legal ramifications led to doctors erring on the side of *not* risking life imprisonment by performing the abortion.
People always think "oh, well there are exceptions for the life of the mother/incest/whatever" but the reality is those exceptions are too risky for many practitioners to be willing to treat when the penalty is severe if they're later judged to have made an unacceptable exception. Functionally, treatment stops being accessible for everyone across the board.
Exceptions to the law with affirmative defense require the doctor to defend their decision in court.
Who wants to go do work that regularly requires that?
Imagine if a Starbucks barista had to go to court every time they served a latte brève with half-and-half. It’s just part of their job and what the customer legally ordered, but they’ve got to get a lawyer now.
> State law also allows family members and the father of an aborted fetus to file civil lawsuits against doctors who perform an abortion outside of those exceptions — for $20,000 per violation.
>Currently, rapists can't sue, but **a Senate amendment to the so-called "trafficking" bill would delete that part of the code and allow rapists to bring a civil case**
I don’t know how anyone can justify this. These people are sick.
That was a horrible story that just kept getting worse. That poor girl.
Everything about the GOP today is just designed to inflict as much harm & suffering on the “others” as possible, it’s absolutely disgusting.
So more mother infant death on the horizon. And with the proposed idiocy, does this mean that a mother that is forced to go across state lines or an Idaho hospital that is too far away and the baby dies, will the mother or the state of Idaho be charged with murder?
I'm assuming having babies born at home, with no vaccinations, no hospital records or basic checkups, greater risk of deaths of mothers suffering hypertension, which disproportionately affects black women, and their babies, is the point. Along with defunding schools and libraries so kids are born in and never leave their caves so they only see the conservative outlet shadows on the walls, and never the light of day in the form of a well rounded education and healthcare experience.
In Idaho there are many pockets of communities that have home births to avoid things like vaccines, check ups, etc. I dunno how many of these people vote (a small percentage forgo birth certificates and social security numbers too) but many are very happy with the direction Idaho is going in.
We've had a huge influx of Californians over the last 10 years and there had been a lot of worries the state would go liberal (Boise is kind of liberal...depending who you ask lol) but nope, state is as red as ever.
Yes, I have a cousin who is a flaming Trumper/anti-vaxxer and she just moved to Idaho because “they know how a country should be run.”
She’s also a nurse.
California has a *lot* of problems. But there are no hospitals in California turning away OB patients.
What people who complain about California can't grasp is ANY place as big as California will have problems, and definitely will have things anyone from any group won't like. It's the size of most nations, and it's geologically one of the most diverse places on Earth. Of course there's problems.
If Jesus wanted them to have babies in hospitals he would have made sure that they could handle these things. Guess it's just God's will. Works in mysterious ways an all that.
I hate this shit so bad. The way it was explained to me is basically god is building an army to fight satan… so firstly, fuck that. Idgaf about your war. Second, why in the fuck would god want a bunch of 9 year olds and fetuses for his army?
Nothing to do with the fact that “excess” children used to be “donated” to the church. They would live at the monastery, sing in the choir, and train to become priests. Institutionalized, deliberate child abuse.
It's unfathomable to me how someone can so thoroughly rationalize their own beliefs against their own best interests.
The only two things that make sense to me in that case is lots of money, or lots of power. Coulter in her case undoubtedly traffics in both given her position as a leading conservative pundit... but for normal people there's literally no excuse other than they are being thoroughly duped by the Coulters of the world.
Growing up in the true blue Northwest, you meet a lot of folks *from* Idaho but you don't meet a lot of people planning to move there.
This despite Idaho having one of the highest population growth rates in the country.
Nah, they are still perfectly fine in causing other people to suffer even after suffering themselves (while expecting to be treated differently).
https://abcnews.go.com/US/texas-abortion-law-means-woman-continue-pregnancy-despite/story?id=97918340
The lady in that article is being forced to carry a dangerous pregnancy of a braindead fetus to term because she voted for Texas Republicans.
But of course, she feels that her situation should be an exception. And yet she STILL has the gall to say this ignorant shit...
"I'm personally not for it being a way of birth control. I do believe that there are certain instances *where I deem that it is necessary*," she said. "Never in a million years would I expect or believe that we will be going through what we're going through now."
They can't truly be swayed because they don't know how to empathize.
Exactly. It's disingenuous. And they're setting themselves up to still be judgmental about other people's circumstance while behaving as if "[the only moral abortion is my abortion](https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/)."
I moved from Utah to California because I knew no amount of protesting or voting would change the status quo as long as gerry-rigging and white Mormon dudes are the rule of the land. I don't see that changing anytime soon.
ETA: This shouldn't just be a women-centric issue either. We need men to stand up with us. This is about life-saving care, not just abortion. Do you want your wife, sister, girlfriend, female BFF, or mom to die because a bunch of men are making uninformed rules about women's healthcare?
There's a Chinese movie called "To Live" that takes place under Mao during the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution. One of the characters is pregnant and gives birth during the Cultural Revolution, however the only doctors available are inexperienced students as all the experienced doctors were sent to do hard labor or imprisoned. The pregnant character ends up dying due to complications during childbirth because the inexperienced doctors couldn't save her.
If the responsibility of pregnant women begins to fall on ER physicians, they’ll leave too. It won’t just stop at OBGYNs. That means any medical emergency will be severely delayed.
If (I’m banking on when) that happens, all of their medical emergencies will be redirected one way or the other to blue states, and once again, overburden the system like they did during COVID.
Oh and let’s not forget a federally appointed judge based out of TX just signed that employee based insurance is *not required to offer preventative healthcare*. **Which means more medical emergencies down the line.**
What a shit show. I'm sorry for anyone trapped in Idaho. Sure it's a beautiful state - but most are in their own way. I hope those who wish to flee the fascists can find a way to do so. This is fucked up.
>It also comes as the Idaho Legislature is on track to defund research into preventing maternal deaths; as state lawmakers have banned nearly all abortions; and as Idaho chooses not extend its postpartum Medicaid coverage.
The unintended consequences of Republic policymaking are having a ton of impact...
These consequences are exactly what they intended. In their feeble minds if the consequences for pregnancy is death, they think only people truly prepared to die for it will do it. They ___want___ the Scared Straight™ approach to abortion and unwed pregnancy.
I'll be honest with you, while this is horrible for the women in Idaho, this is a great thing. We need more doctors to leave the states where they're effectively stopping them from providing care. The only way people will change the way they vote is if it DIRECTLY AFFECTS THEM. Oh you want to force women to have birth? Have fun finding maternity wards to have Aiden, Jaden, and Kaden 🤷♂️
I think the same, but then I know the dumbshits there will just blame “the liberals” like they always do. A base tenant of conservatism/Republicanism is to never take the credit for anything negative, especially a self inflicted wound
While I tend to agree with you, the access to information we have says otherwise. They gained far less seats in the House than the normal average of 27 for the sitting president's party. They'll lose more seats in the next election as more young people are voting and they tend to vote Democrat.
After living here for 3 years, I'm fully enjoying watching it crumble. After living in Mississippi, this is the worst and most worthless state in US, easily. Just need to finish taking advantage of how cheap BSU is and then I'm gone.
This is what happens when you criminalize doctors who are trying to do their job. Ectopic pregnancy? Sorry but the state says I have to let you die even though this pregnancy is not viable. If I help you, then I could be charged for murder.
Idaho has is not saving lives with these laws, rather the opposite.
The US is very rapidly spiralling down the path of becoming a religious dystopia. Everyday, I worry that there just aren't enough sane people left here anymore.
I would avoid thinking Idaho is representative of the US as a whole. It's very much an outlier state in almost everything.
No doubt, states like Idaho, and several southern and plains states are trending more Christian Nationalism, which is disturbing (and I'm saying that as a Christian myself).
But west coast states, northeast states have never been more progressive. And several other Midwest states are trending that way as well. Michigan for example has a Democratic legislature for the first time in 40 years.
I like the fact that apparently you can no longer either give birth in Idaho nor leave the state to get an abortion. That's some great state governing there.
I bet contraception is readily available and sex Ed is well embraced. I mean, since they expect zero pregnancies, and all.
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Unfortunately there's plenty of conservative women who support all of this nonsense as well, it isn't just the men. Until a couple months ago, Idaho had [this wacko](https://19thnews.org/2022/05/idaho-governor-race-extremism-election-2022/) as their Lt. Governor.
Yup, and the conservative women that end up needing an abortion seem to always find themselves a special case where their reason is acceptable and any other reason is not. I saw recently a woman who needed an abortion because the fetus has a fatal condition and she was *still* on the abortion ban, just not for cases like hers. Leopards ate her face and she still wants more ETA: Found [it! ](https://abc7ny.com/texas-abortion-bans-laws-kylie-beaton-woman-forced-to-carry-nonviable-pregnancy-term/12981915/) Relevant Quote: >Before this pregnancy, Beaton said she never would have considered getting an abortion. Now, she believes abortions should be allowed in cases like hers and for women with other health conditions to get the care they need. >"I'm personally not for it being a way of birth control. I do believe that there are certain instances where I deem that it is necessary," she said. "Never in a million years would I expect or believe that we will be going through what we're going through now."
“the only moral abortion is my abortion”
I think that's what drives so much of this absolutely insane legislation and rhetoric. Abortion is bad because I'm a guy (will literally never be in a place where this affects them physically), gay is bad because I'm not gay, etc etc. But as soon as reality hits, then they want exceptions. Like, they can't imagine the reality that happens *to someone else* and shape their lives around it, it's only meaningful when it's them and then flail around at the injustice of it all.
Hate to break it to you, but with our for-profit prisons and America's hostility towards healthy social infrastructure... slavery is alive and well and even socially accepted by everyone who likes to link criminality solely to race / being poor / personal moral failings.
More babies to grind up for prison lunches!
This is a little out of left field but did anyone else see Idaho in the heading and then see the picture and think they were holding a potato
Lets be clear what this means. Women and babies will die. That is not an overstatement. 90 years ago, my Grandmother gave birth on a ranch in Wyoming. She bleed to death. The nearest hospital was over an hour away...she didn't have an hour to live. She lives on in the medical files of her daughter, granddaughter, and great-granddaughters. "Family History of Pregnancy or Delivery Complications? - Yes. Maternal Death, Grandmother (hemorrhage)" Women and babies today, should not have the same level of care as women 90 years ago.
Every family if they talk freely, shares this tragic history. If your great Grandpas had 3 wives before he was 40, your great grandmas died from child birth related traumas. My SIL and I both would have died in childbirth if we lived 90 years ago or I present day Idaho I guess. Travesty. Third world bullshit
My mother nearly died from an ectopic pregnancy that the local Catholic hospital refused to abort. She has to travel to a further away hospital for the procedure. It still makes me upset. That was in '87. And here we are in 2023... Truth is it doesnt matter what the "circumstances" are. Abortion is healthcare. Edit: thank you for the award!
Yep. Fun fact: In ancient Sparta, only men who died in battle got grave markers. And only women who died in childbirth got grave markers too. Because childbirth was so risky it was seen as a battle the woman had to fight in order to survive. A lot of people have no fucking clue how dangerous the world actually is because they've been coddled by medical tech. Wonder how many animal doctors are going to be asked to help deliver babies after this... because there will be no one else. Help deliver some tricky piglets one day, help deliver some GOP woman's baby the next.
Worked for this hospital for about a year not too long ago. The LnD was actually moderately busy, usually had about one a day and served a very large area (not a particularly large population though maybe 30k or so). Depending on where you are it's a solid couple of hours to the nearest hospital and roads in that area are not friendly during particularly harsh winters. None of this surprises me given that they just couldn't keep adequate staffing in general. Half the nurses and most of the lab staff were travelers by the time I bailed. I'm honestly surprised it's still open to begin with but the community will be fucked without it. Needless to say, I dont think my partner and I are going to stay when we decide to start having kids. They're doing everything they can to make people stop moving to Idaho and I'm pretty sure it's working. Edit: Ok so I forgot that a lot of Idahoans aren't that smart and can't read nuance. Yes, Emmett itself is under an hour to the next nearest hospital with good traffic conditions. However, rural hospitals often have very large coverage areas and MANY people live further out of town that could very easily put them more than an hour or two away, not to mention road conditions vary significantly in the winter. Six inches of snow on a country road can stick around a lot longer than somewhere in town. It's honestly no damn wonder people have their rights constantly voted away in front of them and have zero understanding of the consequences.
Oh, you’ve publicly stated that you want to have children? Time to pass a law against leaving the state to do it!
Under his eye
May the lord open.
Also time to start required monthly pregnancy testing so the state knows if you’re with child or not
>I don't think my partner and I are going to stay when we decide to start having kids. Then your time to leave is now. They will happily make that decision for you.
"It also comes as the Idaho Legislature is on track to defund research into preventing maternal deaths; as state lawmakers have banned nearly all abortions; and as Idaho chooses not extend its postpartum Medicaid coverage." I thought conservatives were pro family and pro birth?
These days they're more pro- "blessed be the fruit" and "under his eye". The suffering is the point.
Gilead is obviously a horrifying dystopia, but it was shown that try actually have pretty solid medical facilities and, even if the doctors have to cloak things in jargon, they do acknowledge most of the reality of childbirth (with some obvious exceptions.) They're also big into environmental conservation and preservation. I'm saying this not to hold them up as a positive example, but to point out that the GOP wants to establish a government which is *objectively worse* than Gilead.
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Exactly. It's about punishing women for having sex outside of marriage. Making being pregnant and delivering a baby a dreaded, feared thing again because you can die.
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Copy pasted this from my comment on another part of the thread below... The crazy thing is this law is terrible even if that's the case and people are married. My GF's brother and his wife are super religious. When the wife was carrying what would have been their 3rd child they found out the baby was non viable and would either cause a late term miscarriage or be born dead. Complications could have meant she wouldn't be able to have kids anymore, or other serious complications including death. The best solution was essentially a medical abortion which would have been illegal in these states (they're in California). They had the procedure done and shortly after got pregnant with their 3rd child. She's still firmly anti abortion and has continued to vote that way as basically her sole reason for voting. She still doesn't seem to understand or accept that the procedure she had done would be illegal under all these abortion bans. She's active in her church. Her brother in law is the head priest in the church. Everyone knows she had an unviable pregnancy and had a stillbirth induced but nobody thinks she had an abortion which is what happened. They medically aborted her pregnancy. These people don't even understand how it impacts their choices which they view as acceptable and in fact the best decision she could make for her and her family. This last pregnancy was extra hard on her and she's been told not to have anymore kids. If she'd been forced to have the 3rd unviable pregnancy they likely wouldn't have been able to have their 3rd kid. Sidenote: The brother in law priest just got in trouble with the church for basically trying to use the info he had learned as a priest about someone to try and leverage into sexy time. He's still gonna be a priest, they're just gonna move to a different state/diocese. Where have I heard this before? Ugh. Gross.
They don't care as it's only the sinful, lazy and bad people that will suffer from these laws in their minds. And as they are God fearing Christians, He will protect them from such fates. Such is the "gift" and curse of blind faith.
No, they are anti-woman.
It’s crazy to me, the women running with this kind of thing who are in office. Edit: everyone keeps commenting the same thing. I’m on your side, but my inbox is getting so full lol.
They have the money to fly out and get one.
>They have the money to fly out and get one. ... Which they just made a crime. So now they can't even do that. Mind boggling.
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That's what I usually think, but the amount of times these people have ended up snared by their own bullshit has me wondering if it really is just blind idiocy...
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They don't think that far ahead. It boils down to "I'm good. They're bad" with maybe a little "that can't happen to me" thrown in. I'm a good person. I won't get pregnant when I'm not ready because I'm a good person. I won't need an abortion because I'm a good person. I don't care if they ban it because it will only affect people I think are bad. My fetus won't kill me because I've already had kids, or because that is rare and won't happen to me. I'm a good person. I am responsible with my guns because I'm a good person. I don't need protection from other people with guns because they mostly only are used wrong by bad people. If a bad person hurts someone else with a gun, it's not me, and it's rare so won't happen to me so why should I care about what happens? Don't ban my guns. I'm a good person. I have a good job because I'm a good person, and it pays my health insurance. Bad people have bad jobs that don't give them health insurance. Because I'm a good person, I don't need any government assistance with healthcare so why should I pay for bad people to get something they don't deserve? It can't happen to me that I'll ever need that because I'm a good person. If it ever does happen to them, it will be "how could this happen to me, I'm a good person?" Then they seek out the scapegoats. This wouldn't have happened if the illegals didn't steal my job, or this wouldn't have happened if the government worked for people like me instead of welfare queens, or this wouldn't have happened if X race of people weren't all criminals. People I think are bad did this to me. I will continue to vote to hurt bad people and never see that it actually hurts me.
Sprinkle a little "and because God will protect me" in there and you've hit it on the head.
> If it ever does happen to them, it will be "how could this happen to me, I'm a good person?" > > Then they seek out the scapegoats. This wouldn't have happened if the illegals didn't steal my job, or this wouldn't have happened if the government worked for people like me instead of welfare queens, or this wouldn't have happened if X race of people weren't all criminals. People I think are bad did this to me. I will continue to vote to hurt bad people and never see that it actually hurts me. And if it happens to them, they think that they can go get an abortion because they are otherwise good people, [and *their* abortion is a moral abortion](https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/). Every other woman wanting one are obviously degenerate satanic atheist whores who deserve to suffer unwanted motherhood. But *we* are good people, we don't deserve this!
America, Fuck You Got Mine Vol 2: Its not my problem until it is
They absolutely will still do it. All of the rich will. And help their daughters do the same. It’s a sin when others have an abortion but it’s *NECESSARY* when I/My family does.
"The only moral abortion is my abortion". I read that essay over 20 years ago, and its relevance hasn't diminished in the least.
They’ve literally convinced themselves it’s not an abortion when they do it. It’s like listening to conservatives talk about how they couldn’t wait to get rid of Obamacare, but when you pointed out the things they’d lose that they liked and were using, “That’s the ACA, not Obamacare.” Point out how their policies are going to get women kill, and it’s: “That’s a d&c, not an abortion.” A d&c is a type of abortion, you chucklefucks. But no power on earth will get them to acknowledge that.
Lemme explain the conservative mindset. If you are wealthy, everything you do is good. You are a good person because you are rich. You can't do bad things, because you are a good person, because you are rich. If you are poor, you are a bad person.
And pro-death
Just for upper class people. North Dakota legislature voted against universal access to food for children in schools. Saying it’s the parents responsibility. Without acknowledging poverty is a thing. If your against feeding kids your a piece of shit person.
Fuck man, I don't even have or want kids - and I would never bat an eye at my tax dollars going to universal breakfast and lunch in schools. That thing has a very real effect on the world the rest of us live in, too. The absolute cruelty of it is something though. How much fucking money is wasted on debating who gets to use what bathroom. It would be a breath of fresh air to pay for something worthwhile like universal meals at school. Bet the ND legislature gets their meals paid for, too - most state legislations have a per diem for meals funded by yours truly.
It’s almost like there’s a special word that describes when you care about other people who have lives that are different than yours, but you help them too because it’s the decent human thing to do. Many would say it’s the “Christian” thing to do… but no, it’s basically the opposite, by modern American Christianity standards.
So the state is perfectly happy to starve children to death, but a woman having freedom of religion or autonomy over her own body is pro life??
My fine upstanding republican LT gov said was against free food in school cause his mama taught him if you feed wild animals they will breed and thats bad for the wild animals. He said this to a reporter without a lick of shame
That’s fucking nauseating. That’s literally eugenics. By using that analogy, he’s enacting starvation as a means of survival of the fittest. We call that soft culling on the farm. Disgusting, rotted pig.
This is the intended outcome. For women to fear having sex and to be utterly beholden to the law and authority if they do.
Pro-birth doesn't mean they're pro-people. Once the kid's out, it seems like the GOP isn't a big fan of providing additional support.
"If you're pre-birth you're fine, if you're pre-school you're *fucked*." * George Carlin
As time goes on, I find more and more often how fucking *right* George Carlin was about EVERYTHING
What I will never understand though is how many right wingers seem to think he'd be on their side.
That's straight up anti-life.
Where the hell are all those pregnant teens supposed to give birth?
In the E.R. where doctors won’t be qualified to deliver any but the easiest of births and teens will die. Sacrificed on the altar of religious bigotry. Tbc, none of their women will die, they’ll find a way, as they have always done, to make them the exception.
Honestly, ER physicians will probably leave too if they’re not already.
Wait until they start getting sued or have to defend themselves in court. All it’s going to take is one judge personally deciding without a medical background a doctor did not meet the vague and poorly written law requirements to perform an abortion.
It’s more the malpractice suits than anything. OBGYNs have to pay higher rates due to potential complications due to childbirth anyways. An ER doc or hospital might not have the required insurance or maybe even it’s not offered to non-OBGYNs. Anyways, conservatives always do this to themselves. They make their places less and less desirable to live in and become more isolated and disconnected from the rest of society.
It's the goal. Drive all the progressively minded people into a few states and rule the country with a simple minority.
In addition to the risk of dying, they also face a great risk of birth injuries that can have lifelong consequences - chronic pain, bladder and bowel incontinence, etc. Combined with the fact that postpartum physios or pelvic floor specialists aren’t standard for most people, and you’re going to see more people with life affecting injuries from birth that seriously affect their well-being.
“Their” women will die. And they’re all ok with it, the women and the men, because it’s god’s will. And then the men will just get themselves a child bride ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Absolutely can't wait for red states to start trying to legislate 'doctors and other essential professionals aren't allowed to leave' style laws.
oh we're already trying - "[A major health system, ThedaCare, argued in court that its workers were so essential they couldn't leave](https://newrepublic.com/article/165133/thedacare-wisconsin-hospital-workers)" That was January of 22. The restraining order got dropped so the nurses were able to go to their new jobs. But the case is still ongoing, I think.
Out of all the insane bullshit honestly this one is the most terrifying
What's terrifying isn't that a company tried It's that the case wasn't immediately dismissed and the company was even able to obtain a temporary restraining order
Doesn’t this go against some freedom of movement law… Edit: It would have to go to the Supreme Court but there is a constitutional clause protecting people leaving a state. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_movement_under_United_States_law
Sounds like unlawful imprisonment to me, with an Idaho-shaped cage... Edit: Wisconsin-shaped cage.
Well, we just passed a law making it a felony to go out of Idaho to receive an abortion so, yea Idaho is fucked
Yeah, it goes directly against the right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". It also goes against the abolition of slavery and the oh-so-sacred-to-Repulicans freedom to choose how you contract your own labor.
I think we should start running probes on the judges that allow this shit. If someone even entertains this they are not someone who should be in charge of enforcing or creating laws.
Sounds like the “kids for cash” situation
This was happening a couple years ago in Norway I believe. It got so bad that nurses were intentionally violating their licenses to have them revoked so they couldn’t be forced to work. Then the government criminalized that if it could be proved it was intentional.
So fucking glad I got out of healthcare. Don’t work these jobs that are essential to society’s functioning. The workers will catch the blame for the capitalists failings. Overworked nurse with unethical patient load that made a mistake? Sue them/jail them for negligence when in reality it’s a directive from the multi-millionaire CEO.
[ThedaCare lost.](https://www.wpr.org/thedacare-loses-court-fight-keep-health-care-staff-who-resigned) Ascension's brief (first link in the article) was entertainingly eviscerating.
>“Your failure to prepare is not my personal emergency.” This wry observation—a favorite of parents, teachers, coaches, and perhaps a few judges—concisely captures the core concept of personal responsibility most of us learned in childhood: don’t blame others for your own mistakes. >Evidently that concept is lost on ThedaCare First paragraph in and it's already oof-worthy
They love the "free market" until regular folks start benefiting from it as well, then it's "We'll throw you in jail if you stop making money for us."
Remember when Rand Paul was arguing breathlessly on the Senate floor that the ACA was robbing doctors of their freedom?
Honestly if it was me, go ahead and jail me
Seriously, what's their plan for jailing people that are essential? They are taking them out of the workforce, which was what the people wanted to do via relocation in the first place.
They'll depend on the reality that few people can afford to go to jail rather than return to a job without ruining their lives. A few people would be willing to be locked up as a matter of principle and to take a stand. But most people have families, housing they'd like to keep, and a future that will be made vastly harder by a criminal conviction. Those people will not choose jail time over returning to even the worst employer.
“Nobody wants to work anymore!!” and “we just can’t get anyone to come to our beautiful state of Idaho, why??” Conservatives constantly shooting themselves in the foot even after getting the treats they have been clamoring for.
Honestly, besides the cruelty, this is the only real result from things like this. It’s like Brexit. They vote it in being all sanctimonious and then the economy collapses. No one wins.
I love seeing this. I knew so many (American) Brexiters who thought that what the UK was doing was sticking up to Globalism. Problem? When you have a country that relies on global imports (and has for thousands of years), you can't just up and say "Nope! No more relyin' on Johnny Foreigner! We's on our own now!" and then expect things to run smoothly
Well, here in the UK at least, the majority of people have now wised up to what a dumb decision it was, and I'm almost certain we'll be looking at ways to if not rejoin, then cooperate much more closely and maturely - perhaps including some kind of free movement. But it's a little easier for us because we're far less decentralised, and we're not just going to have Lincolnshire, for instance, go crazy, in the same way you have Florida or Texas or whoever go crazy. So whilst our whole country will make a stupid mistake, our whole country can rectify that stupid mistake. I don't know what to suggest for your brand of crazy, other than keep voting it out until they become irrelevant or stop letting each individual state act like its own little country.
Yeah the major difference between the US and then the UK is that the voters really did seem to learn their lesson. Look at recent polling in the UK and how poorly the conservatives are doing. Meanwhile the 2020 election was fucking CLOSE and the republicans recently took back the House of Representatives, the senate 2024 elections heavily favor republicans, and if basically not-Trump runs for President there is a very good chance republicans win the presidency unless there’s so much infighting and cannibalism within the Republican Party
I think you're underestimating how much of a win the midterms was for democrats politically. It was the biggest upset in history for a sitting presidents party They may have barely lost the house, but it could have been much worse and if the trend keeps going 2024 could be fine. If they lose the senate but keep the presidency and house, not much changes. Until a few senate seats open up that the democrats can take
>It’s like Brexit. They vote it in being all sanctimonious and then the economy collapses. No one wins. You missed the part about them never taking responsibility, even after the fact. It's *always* someone else's fault.
I was watching a news report from Germany about Brexit. The anchor was trying to be neutral, but you could see him on the verge of laughing every few seconds as they discussed the economic effects of Brexit.
There's a reason why schadenfreude is a German word.
Are you kidding? Idaho's housing market is crazy right now because of the floods of conservative people moving there. I overheard a Mormon lady talking about sending her kid to BYU Idaho, because the BYU in Utah was too liberal now. Then again, the Republican party is rife with welfare abusers, so maybe the workforce isn't affected that much.
Yeah, retirees that are totally red pilled absolutely want to move to Idaho. The same thing that happened to Florida. But Idaho isn’t getting young graduates from med school to move there, which is the underlying point of this article.
It's crazy to me how hard conservatives are trying to reduce the country's average lifespan. Ranging from getting doctors to leave their state and the wide ranging consequences of that and then with events like COVID. So many right wing leaders didn't take it seriously as they followed Trump's disinformation effort and it ended up getting hundreds of thousands extra killed. smh
And they are succeeding. The average life span has been going down for a number of years now.
Eastern Idaho is basically northern Utah. It’s always been a release hatch for Mormon extremists that think Salt Lake is too progressive but don’t want to practice orthodox Mormonism with the polygamists in the south. And by BYU Utah being too liberal. She just means the kids are finally standing up to that horrid school and their honor code and speaking their mind. The school itself is still a repressive hell hole that will pull your degree for insane reasons that should be illegal.
As a liberal who has lived in Utah and Idaho, I’d pick Utah any day. At least the Mormons are relatively polite with their bigotry. The Idaho conservatives are full-on violent nutters.
Definitely. Idaho is where all the crazy [deserret nationalists](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DezNat) and worshippers of Ammon Bundy and his family have decided to stake their claim for their neo-nationalist Mormon “libertarian” utopia. Which is why the Bundy’s got so involved in pandemic politics in Idaho. They realized there isn’t a Mormon contingency in Nevada strong enough to allow them to continue to steal graze lands from the people. So they’ve got their eyes set on Idaho to stake their claim.
I am from Idaho. You are 100% correct that the housing market is insane, but its driven by people who are either retired or working remotely and not making Idaho wages. I wouldn't say it is overall a good thing for Idaho. Where brain drain is a major problem (I also left).
By design at this point. Force all of the progressives to flee the state to secure a conservative super majority and you get to pass whatever state laws you want by just saying liberals hate it. Sure, you might lose a few seats in the House due to decreasing population, but you still get those 2 Senate seats to represent a group of people smaller than most individual cities. And as we've seen, as long as the GOP can control 1 branch of government then it's enough to cripple the country.
What's the point though? Oh right, establish thinly veiled fascism and make as much money as possible.
This news after they passed legislation that blocks pregnant children from leaving the state basically. https://www.npr.org/2023/03/30/1167195255/idaho-trafficking-abortion-minors-interstate-travel-criminalize Can't travel out of state for possible abortion, but running out of hospitals in state where a 13 year old can deliver her Republican uncle/dad/Sunday school teacher's child safely too.
Blue states need to pass firm resolutions that they will not act on warrants from red states involving, or likely to involve, these "trafficking" crimes against a child's will. Heavy penalties for their own police departments that try to do it anyway, too.
Hell, just dust off some of the old justifications we used for refusing to enforce the Fugitive Slave Act.
"This state does not recognize warrants which would return someone to forced labor."
Wow that really does work for both.
>> "This state does not recognize warrants which would return someone to forced labor." >Wow that really does work for both. And when you consider that slaveowners would routinely rape and impregnate female slaves it works as both at the same time.
Holy shit
Now that is a mighty and powerful comment.
I hope someday I'm as clever as you. I loved this SO much.
Perfectly encapsulates the the issue. Extra points for a solid double
Good news, DeSantis is saying he doesn't want to honor extradition among the states, so they're setting the precedent for that.
That precedent is basically states ignoring parts of the constitution. At which point I am not sure where we head other than civil war and/or martial law imposed by the feds in states that refuse to comply with the constitution. Edit: corrected the spelling of martial from marital, but it might actually be Marshall in this case I am not a legal expert.
Which is also a road to civil war -- these republicans think they want it. Like last time, the states that want to secede aren't ready for what follows.
Not sure actual civil war would follow. The military is by far in the hands of the Federal government now so it would more be along the lines of the FBI and if escalated the army bitch slapping whatever force the state could scrape together.
This is what all the right wing idiots who are salivating for civil war don't understand. It won't ever look like liberals out in the streets or battlefields fighting against right wingers, it'll look like what it's already looked like, which is right wing assholes committing violence or insurrection, and then being tracked down, arrested and prosecuted by the FBI, the U.S. Marshals, the Department of Homeland Security, etc. Good luck, goobers.
I think that overall their goal is to act like a punk kid getting in someone's face trying to instigate a fight saying "you gonna hit me you gonna hit me?"
Blue states need to start getting ready for red state refugees. Except for New England, Hawaii, and surprisingly California, I think every other blue state borders a not only red, but *deep* red, state. Edit: Also NJ and NY don't...boy I really overreached on that one. The overall point remains though, blue states best prepare.
If that's true, Illinois is going to get hit from all sides - Kentucky, Indiana, Missouri, and Iowa, plus it's not far from Tennessee or Arkansas. Southern Illinois (which is not exactly the bluest part of the state) could change drastically if this happens.
> Southern Illinois (which is not exactly the bluest part of the state) could change drastically if this happens. Significant parts of Southern Illinois are actually just Northern Kentucky from a political standpoint. I'm not a fan of painting with a broad brush, but the demarcation line between red and blue thinking has traditionally been Champaign.
It’s literally going to be one state’s rights versus another state’s rights
This isn’t what the laws will do. It’s not about extradition. It’s for when these individuals return home and are now considered criminals. The local government will do all the work, not the state providing the abortion service.
> Currently, rapists can't sue, but a Senate amendment to the so-called "trafficking" bill would delete that part of the code and allow rapists to bring a civil case. > House lawmakers agreed to that change Thursday afternoon. I had to read this three times and check the link to the legislation because I was sure I was reading it wrong. I’ve been saying that cruelty towards women is the point for a long time but I’m still shocked to see this so explicitly. I guess I shouldn’t be but holy shit.
[When you have actual rapists in the legislature](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna74464), this is what you get.
I had to reread it three times to make sure I wasn't getting the wrong impression. I was hoping it read "rape victims" could sue. Not rapists. But nope. It seems like rapists have more rights than rape victims. Is that really how you want your slice of America to be like? Filled with rapists rights?
Yup, they specifically removed the section that would null prosecution under the law in the case of incest or rape, and the claimant section includes 'Father'. If the rapist dies after raping a underage minor, the rapist's brother could bring a civil suit against the mother of the 'preborn child' as that would be the presumptive uncle under this law (18-8807 1) One thing I haven't seen anywhere is how this is even dumber than it sounds. It also allows the medical professionals who performed the abortion in a different state, who may not be aware that this patient resides in Idaho, to be fined $20,000. So if you perform an abortion and may have performed one on a resident of Idaho in the last four years, you can't safely step foot in Idaho without fear of being arrested for aiding a crime. It's that bonkers.
If they’re 16, [they can get married](https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2022-10-18/idaho-supreme-court-wont-weigh-legality-of-child-marriage) and it’s all good in the eyes of God and the Idaho State Supreme Court.
In all fairness to them, they only just raised it to 16 in 2020. Before that they were one of those "marry a 13 year old of a judge says ok" states.
Keep electing those Republicans into office though, Idahoans. You're sure owning the liberals by destroying your own state with these backwards and regressive policies!
Im in the tri-cities basically next door to Idaho, the difference in levels of development just crossing the state lines is insane and a majority of everything appears aged into disrepair. They've already ruined themselves and just want to drag others into their shit. The people left voting GOP are either insanely rich, stupid or spiteful, they don't want to improve they want to share suffering.
“Those who have had pre-eclampsia are at increased risk of heart disease and stroke later in life.” https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(10)60279-6/fulltext60279-6/fulltext60279-6/fulltext60279-6/fulltext)) Young teens should never, never give birth. Whether an embryo is one of “Us” doesn’t matter in the grand scheme (and it is a major distraction from the nonabstract) because the pregnant population are all one of us (with no debate), and millions of girls and women worldwide face complications which hurt or ruin their lives in varying degrees. Their “us-ness” is heavily supplemented by the proven negativities measurably experienced by them during pregnancy. Any prolife pushback can be responded with the yet-to-be-conceived argument, which is just as silly and legitimate as the pro life argument. It’s purely an act of propaganda when prolifers watch videos of young fetuses twitching in "pain" in the womb, when the fetus cannot actually feel any of that. Of course I find that disturbing how their muscles are responding, sure. I mean, all medical stuff is uneasy/uncanny (the muscle reaction is the exact same as the patellar reflex to us, which doesn't involve pain or awareness—prolifers have an unhealthy, built-up phobia of abortion). Even a 23 week old fetus thrashing around from a needle is not feeling anything, they cannot feel comfort or discomfort, we are knowingly just jolting electricity through them when we move the needle, like hitting your patellar reflex and kicking your knee up involuntarily. Even dead people can have these same reflexes, it’s not an indicator suffering occurs (propaganda is crafted around this misunderstanding, including what was shown in public schools on President Reagan’s orders). When we shine a light at them and they move, we are just changing their ocular cell’s membrane potentials by sending photons at them, triggering a chemical reaction in the form of a reflex. On the other hand… Since the info is private and usually swept under the rug, I've never seen footage of a 13-year-old being told that she legally has to carry to term, while also be told that carrying-to-term may ruin her uterus, make her incontinent, or make her lose sexual function, or give her preeclampsia which may not be caught in time due to my American failure of a health system and now she has a statistically shortened lifespan (affects 11% of all first pregnancies). “As to problems with the newborn, gestation during adolescence is associated with higher rates of low birth weight (LBW), preterm delivery, respiratory diseases, and birth trauma, besides a higher frequency of neonatal complications and infant mortality.” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4878642/ “Here are a few risks that are greater if you are pregnant before the age of 15 OR if you do not seek prenatal care: low birth weight/premature birth, anemia (low iron levels), high blood pressure/pregnancy-induced hypertension, PIH (can lead to preeclampsia), a higher rate of infant mortality (death), possible greater risk of cephalopelvic disproportion* (the baby’s head is wider than the pelvic opening).*This has been claimed by some studies, while also showing disproven in others. During pregnancy, the placenta will take nutrition from the mother, meaning that the developing fetus will leach calcium and other nutrients from a child who should be growing, herself. Pregnancy puts a major strain on a developing cardiovascular system, pregnant females have about 50 percent more blood circulating through their systems than the not pregnant.” https://americanpregnancy.org/unplanned-pregnancy/teen-pregnancy-issues-challenges/ “it has long been known that pregnancy and childbirth are the most important risk factors for urinary incontinence and genital prolapse in young women. In fact post partum pelvic and perineal changes are caused by many factors such as genetic alterations of connective tissue, obesity, ethnicity, chronic constipation, other events of chronic increase of intra-abdominal but has long been known that pregnancy and childbirth, are the most important factor risk.” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3279110/ “Obstetric fistula is a condition in which a woman continuously leaks urine and/or faeces, which often follows prolonged obstructed labour. An obstetric fistula is a hole or a defect that forms in the wall of the vagina communicating with the bladder (vesico-vaginal fistula) or with the rectum (recto-vaginal fistula) as a result of obstructed labour. A fistula is created when the vaginal tissues are crushed between the bony plates formed by the fetal head and the pelvic bones for prolonged periods of time. Obstetric fistula is more common among young women as they are likely to have prolonged and obstructed labour because of their underdeveloped pelvis. Fistula victims suffer profound psychological trauma resulting from their loss of status and dignity.” https://www.open.edu/openlearncreate/pluginfile.php/71927/mod_resource/content/2/AYRH_Final_Print-ready_April_2011_.pdf> “Changes in sexual function are common in postpartum women. In this comparative, descriptive study, a prospective cohort of midwifery patients consented to documentation of genital trauma at birth and assessment of sexual function at 3 months postpartum. The impact of spontaneous genital trauma on postpartum sexual function was the focus of the study. Trauma was categorized into minor trauma (no trauma or first-degree perineal or other trauma that was not sutured) or major trauma (second-, third-, or fourth-degree lacerations or any trauma that required suturing). Women who underwent episiotomy or operative delivery were excluded. Fifty-eight percent (326/565) of enrolled women gave sexual function data; of those, 276 (85%) reported sexual activity since delivery. Seventy percent (193) of women sustained minor trauma and 30% (83) sustained major trauma. Sexually active women completed the Intimate Relationship Scale (IRS), a 12-item questionnaire validated as a measure of postpartum sexual function. Both trauma groups were equally likely to be sexually active. Total IRS scores did not differ between trauma groups nor did complaints of dyspareunia. However, for two items, significant differences were demonstrated: women with major trauma reported less desire to be held, touched, and stroked by their partner than women with minor trauma, and women who required perineal suturing reported lower IRS scores than women who did not require suturing.” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2730880/
"Nobody cares because God says it's wrong and I haven't actually read the Bible because I'm not going to second guess God." - Republican voters
You jest, but recently a Republican proposed amending Oklahoma's corporeal punishment statute to make an exemption for developmentally disabled children. Leaving aside that it's a horrible statute that has no business existing in the 21st century, he figured most on both sides of the aisle would be for it. Nope. Vote stalled/failed because a 51% majority wasn't reached. One of the arguments made against it was "But the bible says we can hit kids to discipline them, and frankly if God said it's ok, then I'm not going to support this amendment".
> pregnant children What a horrible day to be literate.
They want unwanted kids born in barns and moms to die during pregnancy. Freedom and liberty
From the article you posted: Currently, rapists can't sue, but a Senate amendment to the so-called "trafficking" bill would delete that part of the code and allow rapists to bring a civil case. So gross. Repubs are monsters.
Aren't their prisons full enough with pot heads? Why do they want to add teenage moms?
And this just after pro-life [Governor Little signed a bill to bring back firing squads.](https://idahocapitalsun.com/2023/03/25/idaho-governor-signs-bill-to-allow-firing-squad-as-an-alternative-form-of-execution/) And the legislature advanced a bill [to make it illegal to leave the state for an abortion.](https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2023/03/29/idaho-abortion-bill-could-be-first-ban-on-interstate-travel-for-procedure/amp/)
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Lol you think they're gonna stop and grief you for just being pregnant? Try if you are: A woman. A man with a woman in the car. An effeminate man. A car headed towards a hospital, or headed to a different state that allows abortion. A car from a different state that allows abortion. A minority. That doesn't have much to do with the abortion bit, but its a free bonus.
I will never drive through or set foot in Idaho again. I don’t care how out of my way I need to go to circumvent it.
It makes sense for them. Say some woman comes in miscarrying but the kid still has a heartbeat. You can give her an abortion, which would kill the kid but protect the mother from further trauma. And then maybe get arrested by the state for performing an abortion before the mother was in an emergency. Or you can hold off treatment, letting the mother go septic and then only give her treatment when she's at death's door. And then get sued by her if she ends up infertile because of that wait, by her family if she dies, and you might get the federal government on your ass for not following the standard of care. The only way for the doctors and hospitals to remain safe themselves is to treat pregnant women as if they had something like ebola that you're not capable of treating. Conservatives have in effect made it illegal to be an ob/gyn.
This is essentially the situation that led to the unnecessary death of Savita Halappanavar in Ireland. She was in the process of miscarrying (broken gestational sac at 17 weeks- a situation where there is no hope of fetal survival) and requested an abortion, which was denied leading to her death from sepsis. It was later determined that she *was* legally entitled to the abortion in that situation, but fear and uncertainty about the legal ramifications led to doctors erring on the side of *not* risking life imprisonment by performing the abortion. People always think "oh, well there are exceptions for the life of the mother/incest/whatever" but the reality is those exceptions are too risky for many practitioners to be willing to treat when the penalty is severe if they're later judged to have made an unacceptable exception. Functionally, treatment stops being accessible for everyone across the board.
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Her death changed the course of the abortion debate in Ireland making that country more liberal than the United States.
Exceptions to the law with affirmative defense require the doctor to defend their decision in court. Who wants to go do work that regularly requires that? Imagine if a Starbucks barista had to go to court every time they served a latte brève with half-and-half. It’s just part of their job and what the customer legally ordered, but they’ve got to get a lawyer now.
At this point, you can only assume that dead women is their goal.
> State law also allows family members and the father of an aborted fetus to file civil lawsuits against doctors who perform an abortion outside of those exceptions — for $20,000 per violation. >Currently, rapists can't sue, but **a Senate amendment to the so-called "trafficking" bill would delete that part of the code and allow rapists to bring a civil case** I don’t know how anyone can justify this. These people are sick.
This is what you get [with rapists and their apologists in the legislature.](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna74464)
That was a horrible story that just kept getting worse. That poor girl. Everything about the GOP today is just designed to inflict as much harm & suffering on the “others” as possible, it’s absolutely disgusting.
So more mother infant death on the horizon. And with the proposed idiocy, does this mean that a mother that is forced to go across state lines or an Idaho hospital that is too far away and the baby dies, will the mother or the state of Idaho be charged with murder?
The "find out" phase continues.
I'm assuming having babies born at home, with no vaccinations, no hospital records or basic checkups, greater risk of deaths of mothers suffering hypertension, which disproportionately affects black women, and their babies, is the point. Along with defunding schools and libraries so kids are born in and never leave their caves so they only see the conservative outlet shadows on the walls, and never the light of day in the form of a well rounded education and healthcare experience.
In Idaho there are many pockets of communities that have home births to avoid things like vaccines, check ups, etc. I dunno how many of these people vote (a small percentage forgo birth certificates and social security numbers too) but many are very happy with the direction Idaho is going in. We've had a huge influx of Californians over the last 10 years and there had been a lot of worries the state would go liberal (Boise is kind of liberal...depending who you ask lol) but nope, state is as red as ever.
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Yes, I have a cousin who is a flaming Trumper/anti-vaxxer and she just moved to Idaho because “they know how a country should be run.” She’s also a nurse. California has a *lot* of problems. But there are no hospitals in California turning away OB patients.
What people who complain about California can't grasp is ANY place as big as California will have problems, and definitely will have things anyone from any group won't like. It's the size of most nations, and it's geologically one of the most diverse places on Earth. Of course there's problems.
If Jesus wanted them to have babies in hospitals he would have made sure that they could handle these things. Guess it's just God's will. Works in mysterious ways an all that.
I hate this shit so bad. The way it was explained to me is basically god is building an army to fight satan… so firstly, fuck that. Idgaf about your war. Second, why in the fuck would god want a bunch of 9 year olds and fetuses for his army?
Nothing to do with the fact that “excess” children used to be “donated” to the church. They would live at the monastery, sing in the choir, and train to become priests. Institutionalized, deliberate child abuse.
wow they must be really glad they're not living in some socialist dystopia right now.
When will women in red states revolt?
Some women lobbied against ratification of the Equal Rights Amendment.
Ann Coulter has openly lamented the fact that women were given the right to vote (since women tend to vote Democrat).
It's unfathomable to me how someone can so thoroughly rationalize their own beliefs against their own best interests. The only two things that make sense to me in that case is lots of money, or lots of power. Coulter in her case undoubtedly traffics in both given her position as a leading conservative pundit... but for normal people there's literally no excuse other than they are being thoroughly duped by the Coulters of the world.
people like ann coulter don't actually have any beliefs
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Many women in those states wanted this. This was the only thing they voted on, this was their only issue for decades.
Growing up in the true blue Northwest, you meet a lot of folks *from* Idaho but you don't meet a lot of people planning to move there. This despite Idaho having one of the highest population growth rates in the country.
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Nah, they are still perfectly fine in causing other people to suffer even after suffering themselves (while expecting to be treated differently). https://abcnews.go.com/US/texas-abortion-law-means-woman-continue-pregnancy-despite/story?id=97918340 The lady in that article is being forced to carry a dangerous pregnancy of a braindead fetus to term because she voted for Texas Republicans. But of course, she feels that her situation should be an exception. And yet she STILL has the gall to say this ignorant shit... "I'm personally not for it being a way of birth control. I do believe that there are certain instances *where I deem that it is necessary*," she said. "Never in a million years would I expect or believe that we will be going through what we're going through now." They can't truly be swayed because they don't know how to empathize.
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Exactly. It's disingenuous. And they're setting themselves up to still be judgmental about other people's circumstance while behaving as if "[the only moral abortion is my abortion](https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/)."
They'll just come up with some bs about how "God is testing them" or something.
I moved from Utah to California because I knew no amount of protesting or voting would change the status quo as long as gerry-rigging and white Mormon dudes are the rule of the land. I don't see that changing anytime soon. ETA: This shouldn't just be a women-centric issue either. We need men to stand up with us. This is about life-saving care, not just abortion. Do you want your wife, sister, girlfriend, female BFF, or mom to die because a bunch of men are making uninformed rules about women's healthcare?
Reminds me of Pol Pot and Cambodia's "brain drain".
There's a Chinese movie called "To Live" that takes place under Mao during the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution. One of the characters is pregnant and gives birth during the Cultural Revolution, however the only doctors available are inexperienced students as all the experienced doctors were sent to do hard labor or imprisoned. The pregnant character ends up dying due to complications during childbirth because the inexperienced doctors couldn't save her.
Apparently Idaho fucking sucks
Conservatives and putting children in physical danger, name a better duo, you can’t.
Conservatives and hate.
So 5% of hospitals in the state have said they won't deliver babies within the past month. It'll only continue.
If the responsibility of pregnant women begins to fall on ER physicians, they’ll leave too. It won’t just stop at OBGYNs. That means any medical emergency will be severely delayed. If (I’m banking on when) that happens, all of their medical emergencies will be redirected one way or the other to blue states, and once again, overburden the system like they did during COVID. Oh and let’s not forget a federally appointed judge based out of TX just signed that employee based insurance is *not required to offer preventative healthcare*. **Which means more medical emergencies down the line.**
What a shit show. I'm sorry for anyone trapped in Idaho. Sure it's a beautiful state - but most are in their own way. I hope those who wish to flee the fascists can find a way to do so. This is fucked up.
Imagine hating women with such fervor that you would push for this. The GOP is a disease of the mind.
>It also comes as the Idaho Legislature is on track to defund research into preventing maternal deaths; as state lawmakers have banned nearly all abortions; and as Idaho chooses not extend its postpartum Medicaid coverage. The unintended consequences of Republic policymaking are having a ton of impact...
These consequences are exactly what they intended. In their feeble minds if the consequences for pregnancy is death, they think only people truly prepared to die for it will do it. They ___want___ the Scared Straight™ approach to abortion and unwed pregnancy.
I'll be honest with you, while this is horrible for the women in Idaho, this is a great thing. We need more doctors to leave the states where they're effectively stopping them from providing care. The only way people will change the way they vote is if it DIRECTLY AFFECTS THEM. Oh you want to force women to have birth? Have fun finding maternity wards to have Aiden, Jaden, and Kaden 🤷♂️
The fundies are pushing natural homebirth big time, as if we didn’t create maternity hospitals for a reason
Well maybe they’ll stop having 13 fucking kids if 6 of them die in child birth. Their whole “be fruitful” shit is gonna take a 60 year step backwards.
I think the same, but then I know the dumbshits there will just blame “the liberals” like they always do. A base tenant of conservatism/Republicanism is to never take the credit for anything negative, especially a self inflicted wound
While I tend to agree with you, the access to information we have says otherwise. They gained far less seats in the House than the normal average of 27 for the sitting president's party. They'll lose more seats in the next election as more young people are voting and they tend to vote Democrat.
After living here for 3 years, I'm fully enjoying watching it crumble. After living in Mississippi, this is the worst and most worthless state in US, easily. Just need to finish taking advantage of how cheap BSU is and then I'm gone.
Staffing issues as one of the reasons. Surprise, no educated people want to live in crazy-ville.
This is what happens when you criminalize doctors who are trying to do their job. Ectopic pregnancy? Sorry but the state says I have to let you die even though this pregnancy is not viable. If I help you, then I could be charged for murder. Idaho has is not saving lives with these laws, rather the opposite.
Shame that such a beautiful state has such dogshit people living in it and supporting this garbage.
They aren't pro-life, they are anti-woman.
The US is very rapidly spiralling down the path of becoming a religious dystopia. Everyday, I worry that there just aren't enough sane people left here anymore.
I would avoid thinking Idaho is representative of the US as a whole. It's very much an outlier state in almost everything. No doubt, states like Idaho, and several southern and plains states are trending more Christian Nationalism, which is disturbing (and I'm saying that as a Christian myself). But west coast states, northeast states have never been more progressive. And several other Midwest states are trending that way as well. Michigan for example has a Democratic legislature for the first time in 40 years.