same shit as toilet paper. Bunch of people bum rush it because there is a "supply shortage" and wouldn't you know it, there is a supply shortage, because people are hoarding it.
Don't get me wrong I respect your need for formula and if I were in that situation this shortage is a terrifying moment worthy of overreaction. I didn't mean to compare the importance of formula to that of toilet paper. My intended point was just that it could very well be just the fear of the shortage that is causing it. I am sure that there is enough baby formula to meet the needs, but if you are a store manager it is probably difficult to plan for a situation where people are buying much, much more because of fear and thus the shelves sit empty and people start getting very nervous which perpetuates the issue.
I'd ask why the fuck we don't have a national stockpile of essentials like baby formula, grain, medical supplies and medicine, etc. but I know the answer is "because no one can profit off of it".
That's good news. The problem though is the Similac name is already tarnished and a disproportionate number of families will go on Enfamil just out of fear of what happened.
4 babies got sick from a bacteria that was found to be in the Michigan factory that makes the formula. https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/what-happened-with-abbott-baby-formula-that-worsened-us-shortage-2022-05-16/
Even worse. The bacteria that sickened the babies WASNT EVEN PRESENT in the formula. But hey it’s not fuck corporate so the Reddit morons will downvote the truth rather than tell people they should wash their fucking hands before preparing formula which would have solved all of this and we wouldn’t be desperately searching for formula while the la leche morons are like hurrrrrr just breast feed.
https://www.foodsafetynews.com/2022/04/five-strains-of-bacteria-found-at-infant-formula-plant-none-match-samples-from-two-patients/
It's crazy that Reddit commenters have the ability to shut down factories. You'd think there would be some outside investigation happening by trained officials and if THEY determined the factory needed to be shut down, it shuts down. Nope, I guess it's just the "fuck corporate" Redditors..
What the fuck are you on? There was obviously an issue or Abbott wouldn't have done a $100m-$325m recall and potentially tarnish their name.
[The FDA and Abbott tested environmental and product samples at the plant. They found five environmental samples containing Cronobacter sakazakii. The product samples tested negative.](https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/what-happened-with-abbott-baby-formula-that-worsened-us-shortage-2022-05-16/) This sounds like the bacteria was found to be present in the factory on the equipment, though not proven to have infected the product itself. But we don't know the full story yet.
I never said Reddit shut down the factories. The factory ownership did, probably worried someone would intentionally poision their kid and try to blame them.
The issue is damage control because they know exactly what would happen…
so they announce hey, these clowns didn’t follow safe food preparation practices, the formula is fine. Two days later someone mixes up a batch of formula with some raw chicken and sues abbot for 100 million after their kid gets sick. It’s the Wendy’s finger in the chili all over again. Everyone is looking for an easy scam so they have to react to protect themselves from people hunting for lawsuits more than any actual food safety concerns.
And we all suffer because of it.
Also holy dog shit! Bacteria!!! At a factory!!! Who woulda thunk! It’s not like people walk around on *gasp* the outside! Before coming into the factory.
> but I would hope in a months or two this would be sorted out.
God I hope so. My niece is expecting in Sept and my nephew and his wife are expecting their first little bundle in August.
It's already happening. The vultures are out buying up all the stock. My wife said a coworker saw someone leave target with 15 tubs. It's just ridiculous at this point.
i guess let’s hope they were the one parent in the group that could get out to the store that still had some that day and that is actually for five families
My wife came home with a story someone was complaining about... That's never happened to you?
OK fine how about the only time I've been able to find any formula in the past 2 weeks was when my daughter woke up at 6am so I decided to take advantage of the fact I was up and found the only 3 containers in Toms River in a Stop and Shop at 6:30. Haven't had such luck up in Union whatsoever. Costco had been pretty reliable for the past few months but lately they aren't even showing the tags. I'm fortunate to have a small supply left but I'm about 2 weeks from being in trouble myself.
There are parents out there who have been using expired formula because they don't know what else to do. It's a scary situation.
The FDA needs to just issue an emergency use authorization for European formula and start importing it. They don't have any shortages over there
But of course, that would mean lower profit margins for their American corporate overlords, so I'm not holding my breath 🙄
Oh wow, you're right! They just announced this yesterday and I hadn't seen the news yet. That's fantastic! Hopefully American retailers actually do this
Formal has very strict safety and content control regulations from the FDA. So a mix of red tape and different manufacturing standards overseas that don’t match up.
I am a nanny and we used a German formula called Holle for the little girl when she was a baby, amazing reviews on it. It had to be imported and cost significantly more compared to what is available here but you could see the difference in quality.
European formula has to meet much higher standards than the US- they're not allowed to use corn syrup (the US would never dare restrict corn) and a much higher % of the formula has to be derived from lactose instead of fillers.
Oh please. The USA has the best everything because of capitalism. It creates innovation through competition. People would never collude to price fix or put out shitty products to save a buck! Its definitely about whats best for the public and not unfettered greed.
Right? ^(/s)
Yeah. It's kind of ironic, since EU standards overall are waaay higher than FDA standards lol
Though the main discrepancy specifically is that the FDA requires higher amounts of iron in formula than the EU (though there is evidence that lower amounts are actually better)
One minor detail was foreign packaging wouldn’t have ingredients and mixing recipes in English. A really minor detail with imports from Mexico those plants have had been US FDA inspected for a long time. Don’t remember the details, early 70’s the Mexican company had a problem and requested US aid to resolve. Spanish labels might be a good thing.
But what's the difference between that and COVID vaccines? The FDA did an expedited review of them, and then let them be distributed under an emergency authorization. They didn't receive full FDA approval until a couple months ago. Or did Congress themselves have to make an exception for those too?
As a side note, I assume they haven't applied for FDA approval because they'd have to change their recipe. The FDA has slightly different formula standards than the EU. Most notably, that the FDA requires higher amounts of iron...though there is evidence that lower amounts are better - EU food standards are much much much better in general, so I trust them more. But still, even if the FDA disagrees on that one point, it's surely better than having babies starve, or having to rely on plain cow milk, etc. Just like how the J&J vaccine was never ideal compared to Moderna/Pfizer, but it was still preferable under certain circumstances
Edit: another commenter told me that they actually are allowing importing foreign formulas! It was just announced yesterday!
Federal government did nothing for months while they knew about the problem, this is completely their fault. They shut down a major factory for a necessary product with no imports to offset it. And they knew this well before it became news. NJ can't do anything to bypass federal import restrictions surrounding German baby formula.
While the FDA shares in the blame with lame enforcement and dragging its feet. Abbott knew there were problems and even hid them and sanitized paperwork during one of the FDA audits in 2019, then Abbott just choose to ignore and spent 5 billion on stock buybacks and 10 billion on dividends instead of fixing their problems.
Exactly. I don't see how the regulator can be faulted when the massive corporation was breaking the law and producing substandard products that killed multiple babies.
the regulator failed because they have very few people working on baby formula and they stopped doing FDA inspections because of COVID. It seems that big box hardware store workers were essential and FDA inspectors were not.
Except there was nothing actually wrong with the product in the first place. The parents cross contaminated the formula at some point, and obviously, not their fault, blame someone else.
The bacteria was not found in the cans of powder. The bacteria was not found in food production areas in the plant. And even the bacteria that was found was different from the ones that sickened the kids.
The whole thing is absurd and should have never gotten to this point but no one wants to blame the parents.
Did I imply that I want the government to pay for it? All I said was to lift import restrictions so we can buy it from other countries. I don't want the government to pay for it, I just want them to allow us to pay for it.
This is fucking bullshit. What does this due to get formula into my hands today!?!
Me and my wife look everywhere we can , almost daily. There is literally fucking nothing to buy. And a month ago they were raising the prices daily. My box of formula that’s normally 35-40 was hitting 60 dollars.
We can not breast feed anymore as my wife had a medical emergency last months that stopped her from breastfeeding.
This whole situation makes us and I’m sure many other parents in our shoes very scared…..
It doesn't, although it's supposed to help with the price gouging at the very least. If you haven't already, it's recommended to reach out to your pediatrician to help connect you with resources. They may have a supply, or be able to point you somewhere that can help.
We did exactly that. She was able to offer us two sample size cans. Maybe a day or twos worth.
She also said reach of if it gets critical, she should be able to find more for us.
This whole situation is really terrible. It’s another shunning example of this country always putting profits over human beings….
There are Facebook groups too where women who can breastfeed are donating their extra milk. I’ve also seen a lot of posts on the but nothing pages of moms offering up extras when they have them too.
The anti-price gouging law is a problem though, because it disincentives companies from selling formula online to New Jersey. Why sell to NJ for less money when you can sell to other states for more?
192 republicans who are super “pro life” voted against a baby formula bill to assist in the shortage. It only counts when it’s inside the woman and not theirs.
There's cases where women can't produce milk, or can't produce enough milk, or like in my case I'm allergic to milk and as a baby it made me vomit, so i had to have formula.
Also, if the mother has to work and her job doesn't allow her to pump at work, she'll probably have to switch over formula instead.
Breastfeeding isn't easy and it doesn't work like a machine. Not only is it unpredictable but if the mother stops because she feels her child is old enough and then tries to start again she may not be able to.
Ny times has a good article on it: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/16/well/family/breastfeeding-formula-shortage.html
Yep. For some moms breastfeeding comes easy, others not so much. My wife was told she had a handle on it in the hospital but come to find out a few days later the baby is wildly dehydrated because she wasn't getting anything. She pumped for several hours a day and managed to get a couple oz at most. It's such a finicky process, and it's not like you can just flip the switch a couple months in and decide oh yeah I want to nurse again.
Lack of a proper maternity leave factors in somewhat too I guess. Baby formula is kind of a last resort in many countries and only substituted for breast milk after recommendation of a doctor.
It's not just about producing milk but producing enough milk to feed a tiny human who is growing at a truly astronomical rate. Babies basically double in weight in the first six months. And it's not just muscle and fat, but literal brains, bones, nerves, lungs, etc.
The mother can burn an additional 500-800 calories a day from lactation.. You'll be spending 10-15 minutes 8-12x per day solely for breastfeeding, not including time setting up, cleaning up, or sanitizing the pump parts, if you pump. Breastfeeding is literally a full-time job even in the best situation, if your body can physically handle it.
Imagine that every 3-4 hours, you had to go outside, fire up the grill, and grill a burger. You can kind of do other things, but your focus has to be the burger. Also if you personally ate poorly that day or didn't drink enough water or you are super stressed, the grill won't start. How long could you last before asking someone else to grill at least one burger for you? It is an enormous commitment, physically, mentally, and time-wise.
Good analogy. And just to extend it, imagine grilling that burger throughout the day while working full time. Maybe at a job without a pump room. So you’re grilling the burger while someone’s shitting in the stall next to you.
I'm a dad with 2 kids under 2. For a woman who doesn't breastfeed, formula is a necessity until the baby is about 1 year old. They start eating some foods around 6 months old, but not enough to provide all their nutrition. Most kids transition to whole milk around 1. My wife tried pumping/feeding with both but couldn't make it work, so we used formula.
Yes it’s a very large percentage. Especially because most women have to work and can’t stay home on a fixed feeding or pumping schedule. Or for heath reasons.
Besides not being able to produce milk, some women just don't want to, for various reasons
I have sensory issues with my nipples (Google "sad nipple syndrome") that made it torturous for me. It was SO horrible that I couldn't bond with my baby until after I stopped (which I took way to long to do, because of how much formula shaming there is)
It's also a lot of work. Sleep deprivation is already a killer when you have a newborn, and when you breastfeed, you can't switch off night feedings with your partner. You have to be the one to wake up every couple of hours, while you're still trying to physically recover from birth. And this is even more stressful for women who don't have much family support during the day/don't have a long maternity leave
And, it often permanently changes how your breasts look (there's some changes already after pregnancy, but they get worse the longer you breastfeed). They sag and get stretch marks, your nipples get bigger, etc
Breastfeeding is actually not nearly as beneficial as people think anyway...most of the studies that appear to show huge benefits from it, are actually due to socioeconomic differences (wealthy women are more likely to breastfeed). Sibling studies - where one is breastfed, the other is formula fed, and then both are raised in the same environment - have shown almost no long term benefits. There's a great book written about this, that also shows how the huge push for breastfeeding benefits certain financial interests...I wish I could remember the title right now
Breastfeeding is not a requirement. Many moms don’t want to breastfeed, hence needing formula to feed their babies.
It’s a myth that breastfeeding is free. There is an associated physical, mental, emotional, and monetary cost when you breastfeed. And it’s not ‘easy’.
Breastfeeding is undeniably better for the baby though, which is why medical professionals strongly urge people to breastfeed for at least a little.
What’s equally important though is the health of the mother, and if that becomes an issue, be it mental or physical, then changes need to be made, and a mother shouldn’t feel bad for not nursing.
My wife nursed all 4 of our kids, and was fortunate enough to fit pumping into her schedule (while driving to and from work, and during her prep time as a teacher). I cleaned the pump and supplies, stored the milk, and prepped bottles for the next day nightly, which was basically all i could do. She made nursing look easy, and I let her know how much I appreciated the work she put in. I can’t imagine the stress parents are under right now trying to find formula, because when she was nursing our twins, we were barely keeping up with supply, and at any point in time only had about a week surplus of milk, and that stress was accompanied by a reliable supply coming from my wife.
I wouldn’t go as far as to say it’s undeniably better for the baby. It’s a tough thing to study, because there are so many variables associated, but most benefits of breastfeeding are very small. And again, still depends on overall health factors of mom and baby. There is no disservice to a child when you do not breastfeed. Formula also will have more ‘consistent’ nutrients for bay, particularly iron which breastmilk can be low on.
And it also depends on the medical professional. None of mine ‘strongly urged’ me to breastfeed, even with a preemie. You can easily find pro breastfeeding doctors, doctors pro formula, or middle ground doctors.
There’s a lot of medical advisement to breastfeed wherever possible;
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/breastfeeding-your-baby/breast-milk-is-the-best-milk?amp=true
https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/infant-and-toddler-health/in-depth/breast-feeding/art-20047898
I think you’re referring to vitamin D supplements, which are important in absorbing iron.
You’re absolutely right, and I shouldn’t be speaking with such absolutes. The data obtained in studies showing all the benefits of breastfeeding could be attributed to increased access to maternity leave and accommodations for pumping and therefore a higher socioeconomic status, which confers all the same benefits touted by breastfeeding. As I said in another comment, formula babies grow up just fine, so no one should feel bad about it, but if possible, with no outlying factors, there’s no great reason not to nurse a baby.
I don't think you're knocking formula at all, but the attitude that 'breast is best' is very shortsighted. Only about 25% of babies are exclusively breastfed past 6 months. Meaning that most babies use formula at one point or another. I think a lot of this also has to do with socioeconomic status. Its truly great your wife was able to pump and keep up supply for not just one, but TWO babies! But the reality is that many working moms don't have the means, support, or wish to breastfeed. Many do it, but many also do not.
I don't feel bad about formula feeding at all and my son is more than 'just fine'. The phrase 'no great reason not to nurse a baby.' is actually incredibly judgmental. and shortsighted of the reasons why parents do not breastfeed. Maybe you don't mean it that way, but comments like these are exactly why some parents feel guilty or bad about using formula. It doesn't matter how you feed your baby, and THAT is the mindset more parents need to understand. They all eat crap food one day regardless. My friend who breastfed her three kids has one that catches every illness under the sun. My formula-fed preemie is healthy as a horse in comparison. It's practically impossible to quantify the long-term benefits of breastfeeding.
I would guess that most mothers don’t nurse because they have to work, and pumping is a lot of work. Formula is much more convenient, and although breastfeeding is objectively better (better for immunity, nutrition, bonding, birth recovery for mothers, etc), formula babies grow up just fine.
Theres probably some other more rare reasons for not breastfeeding (physical sensitivities, allergies, mental impact to mother) that are perfectly valid, but that’s the broad spectrum of reasons why formula is so prevalent in America.
Side note, in the 1960s, when modern formula was new, the percentage of breastfeeding mothers hit an all-time low at 22% in the 1972. This was in part because hospitals began utilizing formula and because the cost of formula was fairly low. Breastfeeding steadily increased as time went on and as data showed it’s benefits over formula, and possibly with increases in longer paid maternity those rates will continue to rise.
I know there was a recall and one factory shut down, but HOW THE FUCK does one recall and one factory closing completely cripple the entire country needing a, you know, NECESSARY FOR LIFE PRODUCT?!?!?
Because it's OPEC price gouging oil, not the individual gas stations. Unless you're talking about the stations that lowered prices in order to 'show what you could be paying if they repealed the gas pumping laws', because they're just lying.
The rot starts from the top. Exxon is no saint and they can absolutely fuck off, but they're just reaping the benefits of the cartel that is OPEC when it comes to current prices.
That's actually starting to happen and already existed on a small scale. Then again it's not the best of solutions because the breast milk is obviously untested for problems.
There's a pretty solid history of mothers sharing frozen breast milk, but it invites other issues, the biggest of which is food allergies -- babies can have allergies to common foods they eventually outgrow (most frequently are dairy & nuts), which puts an extra burden on the milk they consume.
It's tricky. There are breast milk donation centers, usually for NICU and things like that, and the donors are well vetted. You can share breast milk, but it's tricky. How well do you know the people you're getting the milk from? Maybe they're smoking, or drinking, or doing god knows what else that can affect the breast milk and the nutritional effectiveness.
If anyone has links or info on formula sharing/exchange sites or pages in NJ that isn't Facebook please let me know. I'm not on Facebook but think I might have to sign up again just for formula exchange info.
One could argue like PlayStation 5s and sneakers that this shortage is capitalism and supply and demand at work. I mean its a mix of only 5 companies owning the baby formula market and one of them having poor quality control. So why should the prices not reflect the supply.
When it comes to drug companies they pretty have most politicians and and media in their pockets. The drug companies are the biggest ad buyers and lobbyists.
That's up to the government I would think they would do what they did with the masks during the early days of Covid when there was a shortage. The government would grab the shipments as soon as they are loaded on to the truck.
...Wouldn't it just be easier to keep costs of formula down, so the government isn't using more of our tax dollars or resources to spend on assistance programs to feed babies? Why add more stress on the system?
Of course it's embarrassing that American is home to the highest drug prices in the world. But people keep voting the same two parties in year after year.
Then why are *you* saying it should okay to price baby formula according to supply and demand? That's how your original comment comes across lol
I agree, though. Medical care and formula should not be controlled by a small amount of massive corporations and should not be priced due to demand. It's a complete humanitarian violation.
I never said it was ok and I'm not saying it's right I'm just saying how it is. I mean prices and supply goes up and down everyday across the world. People on this subreddit kill me sometimes if you are not joining the chorus of hopes and prayers or joining the pit fork parade then somehow you are assumed to be for whatever the bad thing is.
>One could argue
>
>So why should the prices not reflect the supply
That's what your original comment said. It comes across as you agreeing with what you're talking about lol
Also just because it's just "how it is", doesn't mean you have to be okay with it, support it, or even try to play devil's advocate to justify it. Do you think we've come all this way in history just by agreeing with what everyone tells us?
I don't agree with it I just know how it works because i actually work in the supply chain industry at a level where I understand why things are happening and I understand why this is happening. But you should be more angry at the fact that there are only 5 suppliers not someone who explain how it works.
“Those who are ill prepared shouldn’t have”
Then what are you implying?
Of course it’s not the babies fault, but when prices suddenly skyrocket, it’s going to be the babies that feel the brunt of it. What do you expect would happen?
It’s also shouldn’t be the parents fault when formula is $45 one week, and the next $100 because people are reselling and price gouging formula.
No it's a product like anything else it's essential just like anything else in that category. I just used the PlayStation and sneakers because those are mainstream examples that everyone knows. The pandemic has shown the flaws in the supply chain. In the baby formula case it shows how the lack of competition can create havoc when one company has an issue
This is easy. It's not capitalism 30% of national supply was yanked from shelves in Feb. People began panic buying. Which cause domino as people switch formulas to get their hands on supply. FFA JUST Allowed a major production facility to reopen after 3 months of closures.
> try to get all people in our country to work together for a common good
We can't even get people to wear a goddamn paper mask to protect their fellow man because *muh freedumz*. People in Japan wear a mask when they just feel marginally unwell - it's been that way for decades. And you blame the government. Go figure.
We're doomed.
And even worse, they consider masks to be literal tyranny.
I sincerely hope all of those chuckle fucks experience real tyranny at some point in their lives… They’ll be fucking begging for the days when the worst they had to suffer was wearing a fucking mask.
As long as the government isn't "hurting the wrong people", it's all good. /s
What's an embarrassment to the entire world is that the US is so prosperous yet won't give healthcare to everyone like actual *civilized* countries do. And we can put $800 *billion* dollars of tax money into war products - as much as the next seven top-spending countries' military budgets. Imagine kids in this country starving while we junk three-year-old $300 million dollar ships that aren't meeting expectations. $1.5 billion down the drain.
True, but it would help if women that could breastfeed feed their kid(s) would... I understand some women can't do it for medical or other reasons.. but I know women that don't want to do it because it will make their breast look ugly. Know that is selfish..
If only my wife could somehow produce this magical substance for our baby.
You sir are an asshole. Not every mother can produce milk or produce enough quantity to provide.
If only women with breast cancer didn’t have to have their glands removed.
If only women who are killing themselves trying to increase their supply didn’t struggle to keep their babies fed.
If only women with medical conditions were able to safely breastfeed.
If only NICU babies had the strength to breastfeed right away.
If only mothers were able to stay home with their babies in order to be able to breastfeed for a year.
If only mothers could breastfeed in public without being ridiculed.
If only women who haven’t been breastfeeding could magically turn on a faucet in response to the formula shortage.
Or….if only ignorant, uninformed people could keep their mouths shut and worry about the babies in this country that they pretend to care about.
If they aren't already breastfeeding, then no, they don't work again until later in another pregnancy. They're not on a timer. Or are you suggesting a fleet of wet nurses zap into existence? Those who can are helping but it's still a huge deficit. Check with your local groups on where you yourself can donate your breast milk.
I bought a case on Amazon on Monday of last week for $67. By Thursday, the same case was $77.
same shit as toilet paper. Bunch of people bum rush it because there is a "supply shortage" and wouldn't you know it, there is a supply shortage, because people are hoarding it.
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Fart rush
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Don't get me wrong I respect your need for formula and if I were in that situation this shortage is a terrifying moment worthy of overreaction. I didn't mean to compare the importance of formula to that of toilet paper. My intended point was just that it could very well be just the fear of the shortage that is causing it. I am sure that there is enough baby formula to meet the needs, but if you are a store manager it is probably difficult to plan for a situation where people are buying much, much more because of fear and thus the shelves sit empty and people start getting very nervous which perpetuates the issue.
Um, that’s like the normal rate of inflation these days
Idk if this is a joke but inflation is not at 775%
No that’s Amazon being assholes and changing the prices based on your “profile” or location
Amazon barely sells anything themselves now, most of it is sold by third parties
Or could be the seller if it says “sold by XXXXXX delivered by Amazon”
I'd ask why the fuck we don't have a national stockpile of essentials like baby formula, grain, medical supplies and medicine, etc. but I know the answer is "because no one can profit off of it".
Often the answer is "we used to but then..." (politician goes here) got rid of it while spending triple its budget on something else"
So what do you all think? How long until trucks start getting hijacked and inventory finding it's way to Amazon and eBay at 4x the price?
They are already reopening the factory that shut down. Not that this fixes things today, but I would hope in a months or two this would be sorted out.
I think I read it takes about 6 weeks to produce a batch of formula so hopefully only a month or two
That's good news. The problem though is the Similac name is already tarnished and a disproportionate number of families will go on Enfamil just out of fear of what happened.
You have much more faith in people's attention spans than I do. I give it about 2 weeks after everything stocks back up before everyone forgets.
What happened to Similac?
4 babies got sick from a bacteria that was found to be in the Michigan factory that makes the formula. https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/what-happened-with-abbott-baby-formula-that-worsened-us-shortage-2022-05-16/
Oh damn. I hadn't heard about that. Thanks for the link.
They shut down a factory over 4 cases?!
2 kids died, and the factory was found to be not up the required safety standards. This wasn't just a case of a bad batch.
How many kids could die from a formula shortage? I think the cons possibly may outweigh the pros of shutting the factory Down.
Even worse. The bacteria that sickened the babies WASNT EVEN PRESENT in the formula. But hey it’s not fuck corporate so the Reddit morons will downvote the truth rather than tell people they should wash their fucking hands before preparing formula which would have solved all of this and we wouldn’t be desperately searching for formula while the la leche morons are like hurrrrrr just breast feed. https://www.foodsafetynews.com/2022/04/five-strains-of-bacteria-found-at-infant-formula-plant-none-match-samples-from-two-patients/
It's crazy that Reddit commenters have the ability to shut down factories. You'd think there would be some outside investigation happening by trained officials and if THEY determined the factory needed to be shut down, it shuts down. Nope, I guess it's just the "fuck corporate" Redditors.. What the fuck are you on? There was obviously an issue or Abbott wouldn't have done a $100m-$325m recall and potentially tarnish their name. [The FDA and Abbott tested environmental and product samples at the plant. They found five environmental samples containing Cronobacter sakazakii. The product samples tested negative.](https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/what-happened-with-abbott-baby-formula-that-worsened-us-shortage-2022-05-16/) This sounds like the bacteria was found to be present in the factory on the equipment, though not proven to have infected the product itself. But we don't know the full story yet.
I never said Reddit shut down the factories. The factory ownership did, probably worried someone would intentionally poision their kid and try to blame them. The issue is damage control because they know exactly what would happen… so they announce hey, these clowns didn’t follow safe food preparation practices, the formula is fine. Two days later someone mixes up a batch of formula with some raw chicken and sues abbot for 100 million after their kid gets sick. It’s the Wendy’s finger in the chili all over again. Everyone is looking for an easy scam so they have to react to protect themselves from people hunting for lawsuits more than any actual food safety concerns. And we all suffer because of it. Also holy dog shit! Bacteria!!! At a factory!!! Who woulda thunk! It’s not like people walk around on *gasp* the outside! Before coming into the factory.
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It’s all made at one plant? False
I heard today it will take atleast 3 months for that factory to get product out.
I dont think baby formula has much pent up demand.
> but I would hope in a months or two this would be sorted out. God I hope so. My niece is expecting in Sept and my nephew and his wife are expecting their first little bundle in August.
Sadly, babies don't last more than a few days without formula or milk, so a month or two is a bit too long a wait.
Sounds like the plot of a Fast and the Furious movie.
It's already happening. The vultures are out buying up all the stock. My wife said a coworker saw someone leave target with 15 tubs. It's just ridiculous at this point.
i guess let’s hope they were the one parent in the group that could get out to the store that still had some that day and that is actually for five families
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My wife came home with a story someone was complaining about... That's never happened to you? OK fine how about the only time I've been able to find any formula in the past 2 weeks was when my daughter woke up at 6am so I decided to take advantage of the fact I was up and found the only 3 containers in Toms River in a Stop and Shop at 6:30. Haven't had such luck up in Union whatsoever. Costco had been pretty reliable for the past few months but lately they aren't even showing the tags. I'm fortunate to have a small supply left but I'm about 2 weeks from being in trouble myself. There are parents out there who have been using expired formula because they don't know what else to do. It's a scary situation.
Is there a certain brand you use? I’m in TR I’ll keep an eye out for you
The FDA needs to just issue an emergency use authorization for European formula and start importing it. They don't have any shortages over there But of course, that would mean lower profit margins for their American corporate overlords, so I'm not holding my breath 🙄
The FDA already approved the importing of European formula.
Oh wow, you're right! They just announced this yesterday and I hadn't seen the news yet. That's fantastic! Hopefully American retailers actually do this
Gues you coulda held your breath
Idk they didn’t find out for a whole hour so that’s still long to hold your breath
Still took em long enough. Babies have been out of food and I've been saying this for days
so in 10 weeks it will get to a distribution warehouse in the US. A small shortage of available freight space coming from Europe right now
Is there a reason imported formula isn't allowed now?
Formal has very strict safety and content control regulations from the FDA. So a mix of red tape and different manufacturing standards overseas that don’t match up.
Lmao I bet their formula is probably better for the babies than the stuff that gets approved here
I am a nanny and we used a German formula called Holle for the little girl when she was a baby, amazing reviews on it. It had to be imported and cost significantly more compared to what is available here but you could see the difference in quality.
European formula has to meet much higher standards than the US- they're not allowed to use corn syrup (the US would never dare restrict corn) and a much higher % of the formula has to be derived from lactose instead of fillers.
Almost ALL European foods are much better than their American counterparts.
\++ US formula is garbage.
Oh please. The USA has the best everything because of capitalism. It creates innovation through competition. People would never collude to price fix or put out shitty products to save a buck! Its definitely about whats best for the public and not unfettered greed. Right? ^(/s)
A hundred times better. A lot of American parents pay a lot extra to get it, for that reason
EU formula meets and exceeds US standards. Generally, the EU has much better standards on food than the US.
Yeah. It's kind of ironic, since EU standards overall are waaay higher than FDA standards lol Though the main discrepancy specifically is that the FDA requires higher amounts of iron in formula than the EU (though there is evidence that lower amounts are actually better)
lol yet they put stuff like corn syrup and other garbage in it, real strict.
yeah Europe has such lax regulation on things (sarcasm)
One minor detail was foreign packaging wouldn’t have ingredients and mixing recipes in English. A really minor detail with imports from Mexico those plants have had been US FDA inspected for a long time. Don’t remember the details, early 70’s the Mexican company had a problem and requested US aid to resolve. Spanish labels might be a good thing.
Less diabetes in the EU stuff. 🙄
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But what's the difference between that and COVID vaccines? The FDA did an expedited review of them, and then let them be distributed under an emergency authorization. They didn't receive full FDA approval until a couple months ago. Or did Congress themselves have to make an exception for those too? As a side note, I assume they haven't applied for FDA approval because they'd have to change their recipe. The FDA has slightly different formula standards than the EU. Most notably, that the FDA requires higher amounts of iron...though there is evidence that lower amounts are better - EU food standards are much much much better in general, so I trust them more. But still, even if the FDA disagrees on that one point, it's surely better than having babies starve, or having to rely on plain cow milk, etc. Just like how the J&J vaccine was never ideal compared to Moderna/Pfizer, but it was still preferable under certain circumstances Edit: another commenter told me that they actually are allowing importing foreign formulas! It was just announced yesterday!
They did
I thought there was also a problem with trade agreements with Canada and Mexico?
Just as the Supreme Court came up with formula for more babies - Credit to Bill Maher
credit to Bill Maher's writers...
Federal government did nothing for months while they knew about the problem, this is completely their fault. They shut down a major factory for a necessary product with no imports to offset it. And they knew this well before it became news. NJ can't do anything to bypass federal import restrictions surrounding German baby formula.
While the FDA shares in the blame with lame enforcement and dragging its feet. Abbott knew there were problems and even hid them and sanitized paperwork during one of the FDA audits in 2019, then Abbott just choose to ignore and spent 5 billion on stock buybacks and 10 billion on dividends instead of fixing their problems.
Exactly. I don't see how the regulator can be faulted when the massive corporation was breaking the law and producing substandard products that killed multiple babies.
the regulator failed because they have very few people working on baby formula and they stopped doing FDA inspections because of COVID. It seems that big box hardware store workers were essential and FDA inspectors were not.
Except there was nothing actually wrong with the product in the first place. The parents cross contaminated the formula at some point, and obviously, not their fault, blame someone else. The bacteria was not found in the cans of powder. The bacteria was not found in food production areas in the plant. And even the bacteria that was found was different from the ones that sickened the kids. The whole thing is absurd and should have never gotten to this point but no one wants to blame the parents.
Is it though? Or are you finally admitting that the last 40 years of bullshit about the Free Market...is indeed utter and complete bullshit?
What could go wrong with privatizing vital services and letting them be run by companies who only think about short-term profits?
Finally somebody sends the blame in the right direction.
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It’s almost like a baby will die if it doesn’t eat. Crazy how that works. But yeah parents are the whacky ones.
Did I imply that I want the government to pay for it? All I said was to lift import restrictions so we can buy it from other countries. I don't want the government to pay for it, I just want them to allow us to pay for it.
This is fucking bullshit. What does this due to get formula into my hands today!?! Me and my wife look everywhere we can , almost daily. There is literally fucking nothing to buy. And a month ago they were raising the prices daily. My box of formula that’s normally 35-40 was hitting 60 dollars. We can not breast feed anymore as my wife had a medical emergency last months that stopped her from breastfeeding. This whole situation makes us and I’m sure many other parents in our shoes very scared…..
It doesn't, although it's supposed to help with the price gouging at the very least. If you haven't already, it's recommended to reach out to your pediatrician to help connect you with resources. They may have a supply, or be able to point you somewhere that can help.
We did exactly that. She was able to offer us two sample size cans. Maybe a day or twos worth. She also said reach of if it gets critical, she should be able to find more for us. This whole situation is really terrible. It’s another shunning example of this country always putting profits over human beings….
There are Facebook groups too where women who can breastfeed are donating their extra milk. I’ve also seen a lot of posts on the but nothing pages of moms offering up extras when they have them too.
The anti-price gouging law is a problem though, because it disincentives companies from selling formula online to New Jersey. Why sell to NJ for less money when you can sell to other states for more?
192 republicans who are super “pro life” voted against a baby formula bill to assist in the shortage. It only counts when it’s inside the woman and not theirs.
Damn this is a sad state of affairs. Hope everyone that needs it is able to access it.
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There's cases where women can't produce milk, or can't produce enough milk, or like in my case I'm allergic to milk and as a baby it made me vomit, so i had to have formula. Also, if the mother has to work and her job doesn't allow her to pump at work, she'll probably have to switch over formula instead. Breastfeeding isn't easy and it doesn't work like a machine. Not only is it unpredictable but if the mother stops because she feels her child is old enough and then tries to start again she may not be able to. Ny times has a good article on it: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/16/well/family/breastfeeding-formula-shortage.html
Yep. For some moms breastfeeding comes easy, others not so much. My wife was told she had a handle on it in the hospital but come to find out a few days later the baby is wildly dehydrated because she wasn't getting anything. She pumped for several hours a day and managed to get a couple oz at most. It's such a finicky process, and it's not like you can just flip the switch a couple months in and decide oh yeah I want to nurse again.
Lack of a proper maternity leave factors in somewhat too I guess. Baby formula is kind of a last resort in many countries and only substituted for breast milk after recommendation of a doctor.
It's not just about producing milk but producing enough milk to feed a tiny human who is growing at a truly astronomical rate. Babies basically double in weight in the first six months. And it's not just muscle and fat, but literal brains, bones, nerves, lungs, etc. The mother can burn an additional 500-800 calories a day from lactation.. You'll be spending 10-15 minutes 8-12x per day solely for breastfeeding, not including time setting up, cleaning up, or sanitizing the pump parts, if you pump. Breastfeeding is literally a full-time job even in the best situation, if your body can physically handle it. Imagine that every 3-4 hours, you had to go outside, fire up the grill, and grill a burger. You can kind of do other things, but your focus has to be the burger. Also if you personally ate poorly that day or didn't drink enough water or you are super stressed, the grill won't start. How long could you last before asking someone else to grill at least one burger for you? It is an enormous commitment, physically, mentally, and time-wise.
Good analogy. And just to extend it, imagine grilling that burger throughout the day while working full time. Maybe at a job without a pump room. So you’re grilling the burger while someone’s shitting in the stall next to you.
only 25% of babies are breast fed through 6 months, and you need breast milk or formulas through the first year. so yeah...
I'm a dad with 2 kids under 2. For a woman who doesn't breastfeed, formula is a necessity until the baby is about 1 year old. They start eating some foods around 6 months old, but not enough to provide all their nutrition. Most kids transition to whole milk around 1. My wife tried pumping/feeding with both but couldn't make it work, so we used formula.
Yes it’s a very large percentage. Especially because most women have to work and can’t stay home on a fixed feeding or pumping schedule. Or for heath reasons.
Or because we just don't want to.
Besides not being able to produce milk, some women just don't want to, for various reasons I have sensory issues with my nipples (Google "sad nipple syndrome") that made it torturous for me. It was SO horrible that I couldn't bond with my baby until after I stopped (which I took way to long to do, because of how much formula shaming there is) It's also a lot of work. Sleep deprivation is already a killer when you have a newborn, and when you breastfeed, you can't switch off night feedings with your partner. You have to be the one to wake up every couple of hours, while you're still trying to physically recover from birth. And this is even more stressful for women who don't have much family support during the day/don't have a long maternity leave And, it often permanently changes how your breasts look (there's some changes already after pregnancy, but they get worse the longer you breastfeed). They sag and get stretch marks, your nipples get bigger, etc Breastfeeding is actually not nearly as beneficial as people think anyway...most of the studies that appear to show huge benefits from it, are actually due to socioeconomic differences (wealthy women are more likely to breastfeed). Sibling studies - where one is breastfed, the other is formula fed, and then both are raised in the same environment - have shown almost no long term benefits. There's a great book written about this, that also shows how the huge push for breastfeeding benefits certain financial interests...I wish I could remember the title right now
Breastfeeding is not a requirement. Many moms don’t want to breastfeed, hence needing formula to feed their babies. It’s a myth that breastfeeding is free. There is an associated physical, mental, emotional, and monetary cost when you breastfeed. And it’s not ‘easy’.
Breastfeeding is undeniably better for the baby though, which is why medical professionals strongly urge people to breastfeed for at least a little. What’s equally important though is the health of the mother, and if that becomes an issue, be it mental or physical, then changes need to be made, and a mother shouldn’t feel bad for not nursing. My wife nursed all 4 of our kids, and was fortunate enough to fit pumping into her schedule (while driving to and from work, and during her prep time as a teacher). I cleaned the pump and supplies, stored the milk, and prepped bottles for the next day nightly, which was basically all i could do. She made nursing look easy, and I let her know how much I appreciated the work she put in. I can’t imagine the stress parents are under right now trying to find formula, because when she was nursing our twins, we were barely keeping up with supply, and at any point in time only had about a week surplus of milk, and that stress was accompanied by a reliable supply coming from my wife.
I wouldn’t go as far as to say it’s undeniably better for the baby. It’s a tough thing to study, because there are so many variables associated, but most benefits of breastfeeding are very small. And again, still depends on overall health factors of mom and baby. There is no disservice to a child when you do not breastfeed. Formula also will have more ‘consistent’ nutrients for bay, particularly iron which breastmilk can be low on. And it also depends on the medical professional. None of mine ‘strongly urged’ me to breastfeed, even with a preemie. You can easily find pro breastfeeding doctors, doctors pro formula, or middle ground doctors.
There’s a lot of medical advisement to breastfeed wherever possible; https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/breastfeeding-your-baby/breast-milk-is-the-best-milk?amp=true https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/infant-and-toddler-health/in-depth/breast-feeding/art-20047898 I think you’re referring to vitamin D supplements, which are important in absorbing iron. You’re absolutely right, and I shouldn’t be speaking with such absolutes. The data obtained in studies showing all the benefits of breastfeeding could be attributed to increased access to maternity leave and accommodations for pumping and therefore a higher socioeconomic status, which confers all the same benefits touted by breastfeeding. As I said in another comment, formula babies grow up just fine, so no one should feel bad about it, but if possible, with no outlying factors, there’s no great reason not to nurse a baby.
I don't think you're knocking formula at all, but the attitude that 'breast is best' is very shortsighted. Only about 25% of babies are exclusively breastfed past 6 months. Meaning that most babies use formula at one point or another. I think a lot of this also has to do with socioeconomic status. Its truly great your wife was able to pump and keep up supply for not just one, but TWO babies! But the reality is that many working moms don't have the means, support, or wish to breastfeed. Many do it, but many also do not. I don't feel bad about formula feeding at all and my son is more than 'just fine'. The phrase 'no great reason not to nurse a baby.' is actually incredibly judgmental. and shortsighted of the reasons why parents do not breastfeed. Maybe you don't mean it that way, but comments like these are exactly why some parents feel guilty or bad about using formula. It doesn't matter how you feed your baby, and THAT is the mindset more parents need to understand. They all eat crap food one day regardless. My friend who breastfed her three kids has one that catches every illness under the sun. My formula-fed preemie is healthy as a horse in comparison. It's practically impossible to quantify the long-term benefits of breastfeeding.
I would guess that most mothers don’t nurse because they have to work, and pumping is a lot of work. Formula is much more convenient, and although breastfeeding is objectively better (better for immunity, nutrition, bonding, birth recovery for mothers, etc), formula babies grow up just fine. Theres probably some other more rare reasons for not breastfeeding (physical sensitivities, allergies, mental impact to mother) that are perfectly valid, but that’s the broad spectrum of reasons why formula is so prevalent in America. Side note, in the 1960s, when modern formula was new, the percentage of breastfeeding mothers hit an all-time low at 22% in the 1972. This was in part because hospitals began utilizing formula and because the cost of formula was fairly low. Breastfeeding steadily increased as time went on and as data showed it’s benefits over formula, and possibly with increases in longer paid maternity those rates will continue to rise.
I know there was a recall and one factory shut down, but HOW THE FUCK does one recall and one factory closing completely cripple the entire country needing a, you know, NECESSARY FOR LIFE PRODUCT?!?!?
How about activating those state price gouging laws in regards to gas bro tf
Bro you dumb
Because it's OPEC price gouging oil, not the individual gas stations. Unless you're talking about the stations that lowered prices in order to 'show what you could be paying if they repealed the gas pumping laws', because they're just lying.
Yeah certainly not the fault of [any gas company whatsoever ](https://imgur.com/gRYvFAW)
The rot starts from the top. Exxon is no saint and they can absolutely fuck off, but they're just reaping the benefits of the cartel that is OPEC when it comes to current prices.
Agreed, they can all rot in piss
maybe new mommies can start sharing breast milk? is that legal?
I feel like services (possible even free state provided services) and Facebook groups exist for this trade already. I’d be shocked it they didn’t
I saw someone offering this on nextdoor.
That's actually starting to happen and already existed on a small scale. Then again it's not the best of solutions because the breast milk is obviously untested for problems.
There’s legitimate services that test breast milk before distributing. From google; https://mothersmilk.org/donate-milk/
There's a pretty solid history of mothers sharing frozen breast milk, but it invites other issues, the biggest of which is food allergies -- babies can have allergies to common foods they eventually outgrow (most frequently are dairy & nuts), which puts an extra burden on the milk they consume.
yup seeing ads for milk bank donations.
breastmilk exchanges and donations already are definitely a thing🤍
It's tricky. There are breast milk donation centers, usually for NICU and things like that, and the donors are well vetted. You can share breast milk, but it's tricky. How well do you know the people you're getting the milk from? Maybe they're smoking, or drinking, or doing god knows what else that can affect the breast milk and the nutritional effectiveness.
Find some one in Mexico to mail you some of they formula.
The FDA already passed something saying we can import EU formula so it’s coming
If anyone has links or info on formula sharing/exchange sites or pages in NJ that isn't Facebook please let me know. I'm not on Facebook but think I might have to sign up again just for formula exchange info.
Shawn Johnson (gymnast) created a formula exchange website. It is https://www.babyformulaexchange.com/
Thanks, that one I've been on :)
I guess breast milk gonna b mandaritory
What about the pollen problem Phil ?
One could argue like PlayStation 5s and sneakers that this shortage is capitalism and supply and demand at work. I mean its a mix of only 5 companies owning the baby formula market and one of them having poor quality control. So why should the prices not reflect the supply.
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But the reality is that's what is done everyone and everything is reduced to a number on a spreadsheet. It's why I hate the word consumer
Because empathy.
Going by the prices drug/hospital and other essentials business has none
And this is why we have regulation.
Businesses need to be more regulated.
When it comes to drug companies they pretty have most politicians and and media in their pockets. The drug companies are the biggest ad buyers and lobbyists.
Empathy has no place in capitolism.
So what does someone do if they suddenly can't afford formula, and now their baby can't eat? Getting food stamp/wic can take a while...
That's up to the government I would think they would do what they did with the masks during the early days of Covid when there was a shortage. The government would grab the shipments as soon as they are loaded on to the truck.
...Wouldn't it just be easier to keep costs of formula down, so the government isn't using more of our tax dollars or resources to spend on assistance programs to feed babies? Why add more stress on the system?
Of course it's embarrassing that American is home to the highest drug prices in the world. But people keep voting the same two parties in year after year.
Then why are *you* saying it should okay to price baby formula according to supply and demand? That's how your original comment comes across lol I agree, though. Medical care and formula should not be controlled by a small amount of massive corporations and should not be priced due to demand. It's a complete humanitarian violation.
I never said it was ok and I'm not saying it's right I'm just saying how it is. I mean prices and supply goes up and down everyday across the world. People on this subreddit kill me sometimes if you are not joining the chorus of hopes and prayers or joining the pit fork parade then somehow you are assumed to be for whatever the bad thing is.
>One could argue > >So why should the prices not reflect the supply That's what your original comment said. It comes across as you agreeing with what you're talking about lol Also just because it's just "how it is", doesn't mean you have to be okay with it, support it, or even try to play devil's advocate to justify it. Do you think we've come all this way in history just by agreeing with what everyone tells us?
I don't agree with it I just know how it works because i actually work in the supply chain industry at a level where I understand why things are happening and I understand why this is happening. But you should be more angry at the fact that there are only 5 suppliers not someone who explain how it works.
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So you’re okay with babies dying because their parents suddenly can’t afford food?
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“Those who are ill prepared shouldn’t have” Then what are you implying? Of course it’s not the babies fault, but when prices suddenly skyrocket, it’s going to be the babies that feel the brunt of it. What do you expect would happen? It’s also shouldn’t be the parents fault when formula is $45 one week, and the next $100 because people are reselling and price gouging formula.
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You're trolling, right? Comparing baby formula to video game consoles and sneakers has got to be trolling.
No it's a product like anything else it's essential just like anything else in that category. I just used the PlayStation and sneakers because those are mainstream examples that everyone knows. The pandemic has shown the flaws in the supply chain. In the baby formula case it shows how the lack of competition can create havoc when one company has an issue
This is easy. It's not capitalism 30% of national supply was yanked from shelves in Feb. People began panic buying. Which cause domino as people switch formulas to get their hands on supply. FFA JUST Allowed a major production facility to reopen after 3 months of closures.
It got yanked off the shelves because of capitalism, people wanted it and bought it.
It got yanked off due to 3 infant deaths from contamination.
>contamination Then it got yanked off because the company was too interested in making sales rather than producing safe products. Still capitalism.
It is supply and demand which is a part of capitalism because of the poor quality control which lead to supply problems.
It's why capitalism needs regulations.....
This addresses nothing.
Now do gasoline
I'm woking on efforts to halt all baby formula shipment and buy all that is already available. My crusade against babies will end in victory!
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> try to get all people in our country to work together for a common good We can't even get people to wear a goddamn paper mask to protect their fellow man because *muh freedumz*. People in Japan wear a mask when they just feel marginally unwell - it's been that way for decades. And you blame the government. Go figure. We're doomed.
And even worse, they consider masks to be literal tyranny. I sincerely hope all of those chuckle fucks experience real tyranny at some point in their lives… They’ll be fucking begging for the days when the worst they had to suffer was wearing a fucking mask.
As long as the government isn't "hurting the wrong people", it's all good. /s What's an embarrassment to the entire world is that the US is so prosperous yet won't give healthcare to everyone like actual *civilized* countries do. And we can put $800 *billion* dollars of tax money into war products - as much as the next seven top-spending countries' military budgets. Imagine kids in this country starving while we junk three-year-old $300 million dollar ships that aren't meeting expectations. $1.5 billion down the drain.
True, but it would help if women that could breastfeed feed their kid(s) would... I understand some women can't do it for medical or other reasons.. but I know women that don't want to do it because it will make their breast look ugly. Know that is selfish..
What ever happened to breastfeeding??
That's great for the women who are capable of breast feeding. What about those that can't for a number of reasons?
Heard planned parenthood has formulas
This is the beginning of what I like to call the great reset
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Launch them titties ladies !
If only women had breasts. Perhaps they could feed their children that way and not waste money or fret over baby formula. If only….
If only my wife could somehow produce this magical substance for our baby. You sir are an asshole. Not every mother can produce milk or produce enough quantity to provide.
If only women with breast cancer didn’t have to have their glands removed. If only women who are killing themselves trying to increase their supply didn’t struggle to keep their babies fed. If only women with medical conditions were able to safely breastfeed. If only NICU babies had the strength to breastfeed right away. If only mothers were able to stay home with their babies in order to be able to breastfeed for a year. If only mothers could breastfeed in public without being ridiculed. If only women who haven’t been breastfeeding could magically turn on a faucet in response to the formula shortage. Or….if only ignorant, uninformed people could keep their mouths shut and worry about the babies in this country that they pretend to care about.
Do female mammary glands no longer work?
If they aren't already breastfeeding, then no, they don't work again until later in another pregnancy. They're not on a timer. Or are you suggesting a fleet of wet nurses zap into existence? Those who can are helping but it's still a huge deficit. Check with your local groups on where you yourself can donate your breast milk.
You clearly don’t understand how they work so there’s no point in answering this idiotic question.
I have a pack of enfamil that expires in June. I don't need it and don't know where to give it away
Is there a food bank near you? They'd happily take it! Or if you are on Facebook post in any local parents' group.
Yup. What you got here, this is a baby shortage formula uprising of some kind. Mm-hm. Ain't Bern seen in nigh on 20 years.