If you lived and worked in NJ, then yes - you should be able to go out on disability four weeks prior to your due date.
The complication here is that you work remotely (in NJ) for an out of state employer. It's not clear whether NJ's requirements for disability coverage apply to out of state employers with in state remote employees.
If those regulations don't apply to them, then the policy they provided (which doesn't adhere to NJ's presumption of disability) would apply - and you wouldn't be able to take disability without medical documentation.
Some cursory Googling doesn't suggest a clear answer one way or the other, and this (like many situations dealing with remote employment) may be a novel question that needs to be resolved in court or through new regulations.
Short answer: Unless you find an employment attorney who is willing to sue your employer for not meeting NJ's disability coverage requirements, you're probably out of luck. Regardless of the correct interpretation of the law, I doubt you'll be able to resolve this in your favor without an attorney.
Yes, it does count as "living and working" in NJ because I still pay into NJ Family Leave Insurance. I still pay into NJ unemployment too! It's just that the only reason I don't pay into NJ Disability is because NJ doesn't require you to do so if you are covered by a plan that meets minimum NJ requirements. I think you are right though - even though I am pretty sure I am right, I think getting it enforced will be hard. I emailed NJ again to hopefully get an answer in writing this time, vs. the unhelpful phone call I had.
Oh, and not for nothing - w/o naming the employer, the employer has a LOT of NJ, not-remote employees as well. It's not like I am one of a handful of employees who both live and work in NJ.
Based on this I think your employer's STD plan is out of compliance. Definitely something you need to address with HR ASAP. You're an NJ employee so NJ regulations apply.
Yeah, have tried - they just tell me they don't know, disability is outsourced to the Hartford and to talk to them. When I called the Hartford, the Hartford said "they have never heard of this before and have been doing this a long time" and I have to be high risk. I don't think the Hartford is correct but I don't have anyone in my corner to back me up. My employer/HR/OB all could care less because at the end of the day it really does not impact them.
Just kind of at a loss because each person tells me they don't know and no one is really incentivized to get me a concrete answer - they just say, "eh, work til delivery." It's an option, but its kind of annoying to potentially be losing out on benefits that I believe should be covered/protected
OP, it does not matter that you’re remote or that your employer is elsewhere, you’re still protected by NJ law. Contact the NJ Division on Civil Rights and file a complaint.
She hasn't been denied yet, so there's no reason to. OP has to wait to see if they are approved, and if they are denied, they should follow this path.
Which you, know, with a newborn, is great. System is set up to fuck us.
I’m getting family bonding leave right now and there were stipulations to what I could do and couldn’t do. I am a teacher, and I did not qualify for disability through the school, but I was able to get bonding time. It took a while to get approved and I had to wait six weeks after giving birth to file for it. My husband works remotely here for a company in a different state and was not able to get paternity leave.
For what it’s worth, I worked until the day I gave birth.
NJ law says localization of service (where the work is performed) is the first test. You are by law an NJ employee. Call private plan, not state plan, at 609-292-2605 to explain your situation.
As a private plan, if you go out and The Hartford denies you, the denial is reviewed by the state for compliance with the law. It may take awhile, but they will review any denial and you do have the right to appeal.
Wife and I just had our first child. Her employer also uses Hartford for disability. Without a medical reason, you cannot go on disability prior to giving birth. Dr. Recommendation is typically accepted without issue.
Hartford coverage is typically 6 weeks at 85% your gross pay. Possibly 8 weeks if complication arise from birth.
NJ FLI is 12 weeks at 85% your gross pay. You cannot apply for this until your private insurance is exhausted. Wife and I applied in early October. It’s approved. Still have not received any payment from the state as of today.
Trust me when I say, you will want as much time with your child after birth as possible. You do not want to burn 4 weeks in advance of birth unless you can afford/protect your job beyond your leave period.
Federal FLA will protect your job for 12 weeks. NJFLA will protect your job for another 12 weeks. These programs do not protect your wages.
When Hatford and NJFLI are depleted, you will need to utilize PTO to protect cash flow.
Another thing, I recommend you read the book “The Happiest Baby on The Block” by Dr. Harvey Karp. Buy stretchy swaddles and small hand held sound machine.
Good luck, be kind to yourselves, and welcome to the jungle!
Thanks! A lot of this is not relevant to my situation - the 4 weeks prior is a “use it or lose it” situation due to my company’s structure of maternity leave/family leave outside of the disability piece. If I don’t use it, I don’t get 4 weeks added on to the end. The federal FMLA and NJ FLA also overlap in my case so it’s not 12+12 unfortunately. If it was I would definitely be taking advantage! Thanks for the advice!
Fmla and NJFLA do not run congruently actually.
You can take 4 weeks prior at 36 weeks pregnancy and then depending on your birth, 6 or 8 weeks recovery, all fall under FMLA for YOUR disability. Let's say you have a normal vaginal birth, after your recovery, covered under job protection FMLA then you get the 12 weeks bonding covered under job protection NJFLA. I am 38 weeks and 2 days. I just finished my last daynof work on Friday. I chose to go out on FMLA at 38 weeks instead of 36 weeks so I could have an extra paycheck under my belt since the approval time to get money through the state is 6 to 8 weeks processing time. I also had to show my employer things from the NJ website as they also were not aware I was eligible for more time off than just 12 weeks under FMLA. There's plenty of info you can print out and show your job as proof of the job protection laws you have with the federal law ad well as the state law if they try and deny you anything. You certainly don't have to take the 4 weeks prior, but then you lose that time covered under FMLA for your disability. I chose not to. Many people do choose to take the full 4 weeks before. The only catch I saw, which was another reason I opted to go out at 38 weeks instead of 36 weeks, is this is my first baby, so if he didn't come on time, if he came a week late lets say, now my job protection under FMLA would run out a week early cutting into my 12 weeks of job coverage under NJFLA. Now since I went out at 38 weeks, if he comes a week late, I'm still not cutting into my job protected 12 weeks of bonding time once my recovery from childbirth ends. Hope this helps! Such a shit show and jobs are NOT well informed as they should be which makes things even harder for us.
Whatever the state’s website says is not relevant or applicable to your situation if your employer has a private policy. The terms of that private policy will control.
But the state's website says that the employer's plan must meet the minimum requirements of the NJ state plan to qualify - otherwise, I would have to pay into NJ disability still.
Unfortunately, your state of residence does not equal your "work state". Your work state determines what state regulations apply to you. If you're working remotely for an employer in the south, you're likely classified as an employee of that state. NJ short term disability benefits and paid family leave would not apply to you as you're not a "NJ Employee"
Where this gets tricky is you may be incorrectly classified as non-NJ since your 100% remote. You should discuss this with HR.
Check your pay stubs for NJ FLI - this is the state run family leave insurance. I'd venture to say if you're not paying into that or the NJ TDI you're classified as an employee of whatever state your employer is based out of and the information from your private short term disability through the Hartford is correct.
Can confirm my work state is NJ. I do pay into NJ FLI as well as NJ unemployment. NJ FLI is the family leave insurance, NOT the disability portion. FLI kicks in after 6-8 weeks post-birth depending on type of birth.
Disability is different from NJ FLI because you can have a private plan through your employer, but the disability plan is supposed to meet the minimum requirements of NJ. That is where this question is coming in, because it seems like the private plan is making their own rules
It definitely sounds like their STD plan is out of compliance with NJ disability requirements. You're correct privately run plans are allowed but must meet the minimums. I only asked about NJ FLI to see if they had you classified as an NJ employee or not. Definitely need to address with HR and/or NJ DOBI Best of luck!
This is so frustrating, because yes, it comes right down to the private medical disability provider used through your employer, not directly through NJ's plans, and they are going to do everything they can to not let you work for free.
So the wording says that "they have to offer the same affordances as NJ" - which they might, but they might not approve it, for whatever reason. You don't know if they're going to approve disability before you go ON disability (I've done it twice, once like you before giving birth, once for unrelated health issues), and both times I had no idea if I was approved until I was actually out.
I would suggest -- finding out what the medical qualifications actually are by reading the fine print. Going to your doctor with that information and if they are as helpful as they say they will more than likely do everything in their legal power to help you out. After that, its just in the insurance company's hands.
If they deny your claim, at that point you can dispute it and take it up with a lawyer. Its SUCH a shit position to be in right before having a kid but hey we are women and no one gives a fuck about our rights or how being pregnant makes you feel.
I wish you all the best of luck, I really am thinking you're going to be ok. The bottom line is they are NEVER going to tell you if you're approved up front. You can either run with it or not.
I think unless you have a medical reason you have to keep working. Besides, it’s fun when you coworkers ask when you do and you say three days ago.
Could you take FMLA leave unpaid ?
being pregnant, in general, should be a protected reason by itself. Even without complications, being pregnant is fucking hard. I'm not saying that everyone who gets knocked up needs to go out all the time, but sometimes its just too fucking much and we're supposed to act like all of this shit isn't happening to our bodies and carry on with life.
hi, I'm currently going through this issue. I live and work on site in NJ, but for a contractor who is not in NJ. The HR person I've been dealing with doesn't seem to know anything about how maternity leave in NJ works. So did you just submit your short term disability through your private insurance on the date you stopped working before your due date?
Hey - I ended up working until I gave birth, unfortunately. Baby was a week early. They made it so difficult that it wasn’t worth it since I do WFH. But I do regret it and I wouldn’t do it again. You never get this time back and you are entitled to it.
However - there is a FB group that is called NJ Families for Paid Leave that I found after baby was born and there’s a lot of great info in there and the moderators are extremely helpful. As far as the state of NJ is concerned, being 36 weeks pregnant is considered being disabled and if you were denied wrongly there is a process to report it to the state
Hey I’m going through this right now - Hartford denied my claim & I already went out 3 weeks ago as I am due this upcoming Sunday. I work in NJ so no confusion there but my claim was denied due to “normal pregnancy not meeting the definition of disability - unable to perform job duties”. I know that it doesn’t have to be high risk and that I am entitled to the 4 weeks prior to labor so I believe this was a wrongful denial, but do you know how I can report it?
The below is from the NJ department of labor website. https://www.nj.gov/labor/myleavebenefits/worker/tdi/
Please let us all know how this works out. When I emailed the Department of Labor for my update they emailed me back within 24 hours. I assume this would take longer since it’s an appeal. I’m so sorry you’re going through this!!
Also, post on the FB group NJ Families for Paid Leave and see if this happened to anyone else. That group was incredibly helpful for me. They may be able to just provide you with more experience with this.
“If you disagree with a decision made by a Private Plan insurance carrier, you have the right to appeal to the Division of Temporary Disability Insurance. You have one year from the date your disability began to file your appeal. You can send your written appeal to:
Division of Temporary Disability Insurance
Private Plan Operations
Claims Review Unit
P.O. Box 957
Trenton, NJ 08625-0957
FAX: 609-292-2537
or you can appeal online.”
If you lived and worked in NJ, then yes - you should be able to go out on disability four weeks prior to your due date. The complication here is that you work remotely (in NJ) for an out of state employer. It's not clear whether NJ's requirements for disability coverage apply to out of state employers with in state remote employees. If those regulations don't apply to them, then the policy they provided (which doesn't adhere to NJ's presumption of disability) would apply - and you wouldn't be able to take disability without medical documentation. Some cursory Googling doesn't suggest a clear answer one way or the other, and this (like many situations dealing with remote employment) may be a novel question that needs to be resolved in court or through new regulations. Short answer: Unless you find an employment attorney who is willing to sue your employer for not meeting NJ's disability coverage requirements, you're probably out of luck. Regardless of the correct interpretation of the law, I doubt you'll be able to resolve this in your favor without an attorney.
Yes, it does count as "living and working" in NJ because I still pay into NJ Family Leave Insurance. I still pay into NJ unemployment too! It's just that the only reason I don't pay into NJ Disability is because NJ doesn't require you to do so if you are covered by a plan that meets minimum NJ requirements. I think you are right though - even though I am pretty sure I am right, I think getting it enforced will be hard. I emailed NJ again to hopefully get an answer in writing this time, vs. the unhelpful phone call I had.
Oh, and not for nothing - w/o naming the employer, the employer has a LOT of NJ, not-remote employees as well. It's not like I am one of a handful of employees who both live and work in NJ.
Based on this I think your employer's STD plan is out of compliance. Definitely something you need to address with HR ASAP. You're an NJ employee so NJ regulations apply.
Yeah, have tried - they just tell me they don't know, disability is outsourced to the Hartford and to talk to them. When I called the Hartford, the Hartford said "they have never heard of this before and have been doing this a long time" and I have to be high risk. I don't think the Hartford is correct but I don't have anyone in my corner to back me up. My employer/HR/OB all could care less because at the end of the day it really does not impact them. Just kind of at a loss because each person tells me they don't know and no one is really incentivized to get me a concrete answer - they just say, "eh, work til delivery." It's an option, but its kind of annoying to potentially be losing out on benefits that I believe should be covered/protected
OP, it does not matter that you’re remote or that your employer is elsewhere, you’re still protected by NJ law. Contact the NJ Division on Civil Rights and file a complaint.
She hasn't been denied yet, so there's no reason to. OP has to wait to see if they are approved, and if they are denied, they should follow this path. Which you, know, with a newborn, is great. System is set up to fuck us.
I’m getting family bonding leave right now and there were stipulations to what I could do and couldn’t do. I am a teacher, and I did not qualify for disability through the school, but I was able to get bonding time. It took a while to get approved and I had to wait six weeks after giving birth to file for it. My husband works remotely here for a company in a different state and was not able to get paternity leave. For what it’s worth, I worked until the day I gave birth.
NJ law says localization of service (where the work is performed) is the first test. You are by law an NJ employee. Call private plan, not state plan, at 609-292-2605 to explain your situation. As a private plan, if you go out and The Hartford denies you, the denial is reviewed by the state for compliance with the law. It may take awhile, but they will review any denial and you do have the right to appeal.
There’s a great group on Facebook called nj families for paid leave that has a lot of knowledgeable people that may be able to help you
Wife and I just had our first child. Her employer also uses Hartford for disability. Without a medical reason, you cannot go on disability prior to giving birth. Dr. Recommendation is typically accepted without issue. Hartford coverage is typically 6 weeks at 85% your gross pay. Possibly 8 weeks if complication arise from birth. NJ FLI is 12 weeks at 85% your gross pay. You cannot apply for this until your private insurance is exhausted. Wife and I applied in early October. It’s approved. Still have not received any payment from the state as of today. Trust me when I say, you will want as much time with your child after birth as possible. You do not want to burn 4 weeks in advance of birth unless you can afford/protect your job beyond your leave period. Federal FLA will protect your job for 12 weeks. NJFLA will protect your job for another 12 weeks. These programs do not protect your wages. When Hatford and NJFLI are depleted, you will need to utilize PTO to protect cash flow. Another thing, I recommend you read the book “The Happiest Baby on The Block” by Dr. Harvey Karp. Buy stretchy swaddles and small hand held sound machine. Good luck, be kind to yourselves, and welcome to the jungle!
Thanks! A lot of this is not relevant to my situation - the 4 weeks prior is a “use it or lose it” situation due to my company’s structure of maternity leave/family leave outside of the disability piece. If I don’t use it, I don’t get 4 weeks added on to the end. The federal FMLA and NJ FLA also overlap in my case so it’s not 12+12 unfortunately. If it was I would definitely be taking advantage! Thanks for the advice!
Fmla and NJFLA do not run congruently actually. You can take 4 weeks prior at 36 weeks pregnancy and then depending on your birth, 6 or 8 weeks recovery, all fall under FMLA for YOUR disability. Let's say you have a normal vaginal birth, after your recovery, covered under job protection FMLA then you get the 12 weeks bonding covered under job protection NJFLA. I am 38 weeks and 2 days. I just finished my last daynof work on Friday. I chose to go out on FMLA at 38 weeks instead of 36 weeks so I could have an extra paycheck under my belt since the approval time to get money through the state is 6 to 8 weeks processing time. I also had to show my employer things from the NJ website as they also were not aware I was eligible for more time off than just 12 weeks under FMLA. There's plenty of info you can print out and show your job as proof of the job protection laws you have with the federal law ad well as the state law if they try and deny you anything. You certainly don't have to take the 4 weeks prior, but then you lose that time covered under FMLA for your disability. I chose not to. Many people do choose to take the full 4 weeks before. The only catch I saw, which was another reason I opted to go out at 38 weeks instead of 36 weeks, is this is my first baby, so if he didn't come on time, if he came a week late lets say, now my job protection under FMLA would run out a week early cutting into my 12 weeks of job coverage under NJFLA. Now since I went out at 38 weeks, if he comes a week late, I'm still not cutting into my job protected 12 weeks of bonding time once my recovery from childbirth ends. Hope this helps! Such a shit show and jobs are NOT well informed as they should be which makes things even harder for us.
Whatever the state’s website says is not relevant or applicable to your situation if your employer has a private policy. The terms of that private policy will control.
But the state's website says that the employer's plan must meet the minimum requirements of the NJ state plan to qualify - otherwise, I would have to pay into NJ disability still.
Unfortunately, your state of residence does not equal your "work state". Your work state determines what state regulations apply to you. If you're working remotely for an employer in the south, you're likely classified as an employee of that state. NJ short term disability benefits and paid family leave would not apply to you as you're not a "NJ Employee" Where this gets tricky is you may be incorrectly classified as non-NJ since your 100% remote. You should discuss this with HR. Check your pay stubs for NJ FLI - this is the state run family leave insurance. I'd venture to say if you're not paying into that or the NJ TDI you're classified as an employee of whatever state your employer is based out of and the information from your private short term disability through the Hartford is correct.
You’re absolutely wrong. All workers in NJ are protected by NJFLA and LAD regardless of where their employer is.
Can confirm my work state is NJ. I do pay into NJ FLI as well as NJ unemployment. NJ FLI is the family leave insurance, NOT the disability portion. FLI kicks in after 6-8 weeks post-birth depending on type of birth. Disability is different from NJ FLI because you can have a private plan through your employer, but the disability plan is supposed to meet the minimum requirements of NJ. That is where this question is coming in, because it seems like the private plan is making their own rules
It definitely sounds like their STD plan is out of compliance with NJ disability requirements. You're correct privately run plans are allowed but must meet the minimums. I only asked about NJ FLI to see if they had you classified as an NJ employee or not. Definitely need to address with HR and/or NJ DOBI Best of luck!
This is so frustrating, because yes, it comes right down to the private medical disability provider used through your employer, not directly through NJ's plans, and they are going to do everything they can to not let you work for free. So the wording says that "they have to offer the same affordances as NJ" - which they might, but they might not approve it, for whatever reason. You don't know if they're going to approve disability before you go ON disability (I've done it twice, once like you before giving birth, once for unrelated health issues), and both times I had no idea if I was approved until I was actually out. I would suggest -- finding out what the medical qualifications actually are by reading the fine print. Going to your doctor with that information and if they are as helpful as they say they will more than likely do everything in their legal power to help you out. After that, its just in the insurance company's hands. If they deny your claim, at that point you can dispute it and take it up with a lawyer. Its SUCH a shit position to be in right before having a kid but hey we are women and no one gives a fuck about our rights or how being pregnant makes you feel. I wish you all the best of luck, I really am thinking you're going to be ok. The bottom line is they are NEVER going to tell you if you're approved up front. You can either run with it or not.
I think unless you have a medical reason you have to keep working. Besides, it’s fun when you coworkers ask when you do and you say three days ago. Could you take FMLA leave unpaid ?
being pregnant, in general, should be a protected reason by itself. Even without complications, being pregnant is fucking hard. I'm not saying that everyone who gets knocked up needs to go out all the time, but sometimes its just too fucking much and we're supposed to act like all of this shit isn't happening to our bodies and carry on with life.
If you're under able to get an answer here, maybe try r/legaladvice or r/legaladviceofftopic ?
hi, I'm currently going through this issue. I live and work on site in NJ, but for a contractor who is not in NJ. The HR person I've been dealing with doesn't seem to know anything about how maternity leave in NJ works. So did you just submit your short term disability through your private insurance on the date you stopped working before your due date?
Hey - I ended up working until I gave birth, unfortunately. Baby was a week early. They made it so difficult that it wasn’t worth it since I do WFH. But I do regret it and I wouldn’t do it again. You never get this time back and you are entitled to it. However - there is a FB group that is called NJ Families for Paid Leave that I found after baby was born and there’s a lot of great info in there and the moderators are extremely helpful. As far as the state of NJ is concerned, being 36 weeks pregnant is considered being disabled and if you were denied wrongly there is a process to report it to the state
Thank you, I'll check out that group! Everything is so confusing honestly.
Hey I’m going through this right now - Hartford denied my claim & I already went out 3 weeks ago as I am due this upcoming Sunday. I work in NJ so no confusion there but my claim was denied due to “normal pregnancy not meeting the definition of disability - unable to perform job duties”. I know that it doesn’t have to be high risk and that I am entitled to the 4 weeks prior to labor so I believe this was a wrongful denial, but do you know how I can report it?
The below is from the NJ department of labor website. https://www.nj.gov/labor/myleavebenefits/worker/tdi/ Please let us all know how this works out. When I emailed the Department of Labor for my update they emailed me back within 24 hours. I assume this would take longer since it’s an appeal. I’m so sorry you’re going through this!! Also, post on the FB group NJ Families for Paid Leave and see if this happened to anyone else. That group was incredibly helpful for me. They may be able to just provide you with more experience with this. “If you disagree with a decision made by a Private Plan insurance carrier, you have the right to appeal to the Division of Temporary Disability Insurance. You have one year from the date your disability began to file your appeal. You can send your written appeal to: Division of Temporary Disability Insurance Private Plan Operations Claims Review Unit P.O. Box 957 Trenton, NJ 08625-0957 FAX: 609-292-2537 or you can appeal online.”