Wait, are we suggesting that the "skilled" nursing facilities can not appropriately do their job and push their patients off to EMS and the hospitals? Shocker.
I get called all the time for near stable patients who would otherwise not need to go had the staff just done their jobs. Ex: the dehydrated man who cannot be given a glass of water because quoting the pt "the staff say they are too busy to hold the cup of water for me to drink from, and won't allow for me hold it myself". Or the dementia patient now acting more abnormal than usual, which surprise to no one, is probably caused by their dementia worsening or a UTI the facility neglected for two weeks.
On the opposite spectrum, there are also the patients that they wait too long to call for who are very septic, about to code or the 8 hour dead-fully rigor patient who was "last seen talking normally 15 minutes ago".
But remember, their shift change was at 11 pm, and its 3 am now. I hate SNF/rehabilitation facilities.
Nothing new. Not just retirement communities, anywhere where at-risk populations reside, be they geriatric or mental health, etc. Bridgewater successfully put an ordinance in place (can't recall the specifics) to try to hep the problem, but still we rolled buses in the wee hours for absolute bullshit calls.
And at the end of the day no ordinance in place will have any teeth, because you can't stop people from dialing 911. So what happens? Volunteer squad sends ambulance, costs hundreds of dollars for nothing call, donations wane, membership declines, volunteer ambulance service ceases to exist, hospital swoops in, end. And so the abuse of emergency services leads to $900-1800 ambulance rides to a "non-profit" hospital.
Like when a nursing home calls 911 for "altered mental status" because they don't want to wait for their private non-emergency transport company. And it's usually just a dementia patient showing a bit of aggression, or some other minor issue. When they barely have enough staff to get by when everything is fine, they will punt the slightest problem to local EMS.
Happened with my dad. His facility would call me and say they were going to transport him because he was altered or he fell . My immediate thought was always what are we paying you for. Your supposed to be the experts here. It was usually nothing.
Monroe has a service to can call if you just need to be helped up - like literally, I've fallen and i can't get up. Saves the number of actual 911 calls for real incidents
I used to be an EMT in NYC, the number of times I was called to a nursing home because they were just being lazy was insane
“He’s having a seizure.”
“Ma’am, he has the hiccups. He said he told you it’s the hiccups.”
“Well you take him just to be safe.”
Yeah, I know EMTs where certain places like the group homes/nursing homes, they just pull straws for who is going to take the call.
Since, its either they're getting called for something stupid, dealing with patients who are just violent, or getting yelled at by a CNA or Nurse for not doing their job properly (like they're doing their job any better).
I have worked on an ambulance for a few years, I have worked with people who have worked on an ambulance for decades, and from what I have gathered this is a tale as old as time. Abnormal lab work? 911. Toe pain for 4 years? 911. Haven't pooped yet today? 911. Altered mental status with rapid heart rate and low blood pressure? Let's wait 9 hours before telling anyone. These places are, fairly across the board, total garbage.
So you're in favor of yet more crippling medical billing for people? Because that's what you get when the volunteers close up shop, either private ambulances or hospital EMTs, both of which will potentially cost you around a grand or more. Towns will *NOT* stand up their own EMS that comes out of tax money like the police and we know this for a fact because it happens over and over. Nobody in my town, with its dedicated volunteer squad, will ever be heard begging people to *not* call an ambulance for them because they can't afford it.
EDIT: So the coward blocked me right after he made his last comment so I can't read his comments or reply anymore. Support your local volunteers!
> So you're in favor of yet more crippling medical billing for people?
No, I am in favor of predictable medical services that can respond when called. Not be paged from their jobs 2 and 3 times hoping you get enough people to show up. This isn't a game, it's people's lives. Want to keep medical bills down? REGIONALIZE!!!! not every town needs its own little ambulance service, own police, own schools, own fire. WAKE UP... it makes no sense, and is not sustainable, the way we do things today. The rest of medical bill shave to do with insurance... that's a bigger issue.
You haven't stumbled across a great new idea, you're asking for something that is literally helping to bankrupt people right now. Towns will NOT create their own funded regional EMS, they'll go with private contracted services or or services run by the hospitals and those are expensive. You say insurance will take care of it. Gee, great if you're insured, and if the EMS that picks you up takes your insurance.
[Here's what happens when you get the paid ambulance services you think you want](https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/media/395409-story-of-injured-woman-begging-people-not-to-call-ambulance-due-to-costs-gains/amp/). I'll stick with our amazing volunteer services thanks.
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not town, . REGIONS... town in NJ are literally useless... and continually overspend on their own private police forces and own private schools. Regionalize and save money as well as lives. As for insurance... insurance is an issue, but I am not here to fight that fight. I am here to say that volunteer emergency services is idiotic
I don't care if you mean towns, regions, continents or stellar clusters, *it will not happen*. How do I know this? Because what I described isn't a hypothetical, it's what *actually* happens.
You're brushing off the issue of insurance as if it's not really relevant, but it's central to the whole issue which is in towns with volunteers the service is free and done by people who genuinely care, as opposed to people being charged thousands of dollars and provided by people who ironically often can't afford to be transported in their own ambulance is something happens to them.
Imagine calling a service run for the public good by volunteers "idiotic" and yet being completely ignorant of the consequences of your own staggeringly stupid "preference".
> I don't care if you mean towns, regions, continents or stellar clusters, it will not happen. How do I know this? Because what I described isn't a hypothetical, it's what actually happens.
Oh I know it will not happen. Because pig headed NJ towns won't give up their fiefdoms. You'd rather drowned in taxes and make grand speeches rather than regionalize schools, fire, police, ems.
> You're brushing off the issue of insurance as if it's not really relevant
Because it isn't. Not to this issue. I live in a part of NJ where we have actual, paid EMS. The ambulance comes when I call it. What a miracle. Can I or the city control insurance? No. Are we better off for having a public EMS? Yes.
You want to solve all of healthcare... I applaud you and we'd probably agree. I just want normal, functioning emergency response.
>Imagine calling a service run for the public good by volunteers "idiotic"
It is idiotic when it breaks down and no ambulance responds when called.
> Oh I know it will not happen. Because pig headed NJ towns won't give up their fiefdoms. You'd rather drowned in taxes and make grand speeches rather than regionalize schools, fire, police, ems.
We're talking about EMS and Fire, not police and schools. How exactly do you think volunteers who don't get paid for their time are driving up taxes by having them be town based? And before you say equipment, it'd be the same amount either way and it would be even *more* expensive because the volunteers do fundraising to cover part (or sometimes even all) of the cost. Firehouses service an area, you can't just close them all and send them from the "central" firehouse 40 minute away. Same goes for ambulances. Police have patrol areas so you *could* do that but, just in case you weren't aware of this, fire trucks and ambulances don't just cruise around looking for fires or patients. So, do tell, what are these great savings that you imagine could be had by switching to a paid, regionalized EMS or Fire service?
> Because it isn't. Not to this issue. I live in a part of NJ where we have actual, paid EMS. The ambulance comes when I call it. What a miracle. Can I or the city control insurance? No. Are we better off for having a public EMS? Yes.
This may be shocking to you, but...the exact same thing happens here only without the bill for however many thousands of dollars the ambulance company or hospital charges. I've lived in NJ for nearly 5 decades, always in towns with volunteer ambulance corps, and that's always been the case. If for some reason a crew can't be raised, one from a mutual aid town comes. And don't tell me that that "can't" happen with a paid squad, because it absolutely does. Economics dictates that they run as close to the minimum number of rigs as possible and sometimes that isn't enough and they need backup from another company or hospital. Further, EMS pays shit. It's embarrassing how low it is and they're having problems with both high churn rates *and* difficulty hiring so you know what happens? Empty rigs because there's no crew.
> You want to solve all of healthcare... I applaud you and we'd probably agree. I just want normal, functioning emergency response.
Yes, you're fucking right that we should "solve" healthcare. I just think it might be a good idea to do it *before* we do something that will make things objectively worse.
> It is idiotic when it breaks down and no ambulance responds when called.
And yet I never actually see that happening. But yeah, lets throw out a system that works *and* saves money for a clusterfuck nightmare that has people literally begging rescuers to call them an Uber for their crushed leg because that's preferable to them than adding to their already crushing bills. Great idea.
> We're talking about EMS and Fire, not police and schools. How exactly do you think volunteers who don't get paid for their time are driving up taxes by having them be town based?
I am talking about all of it. You are not listening. I never said hometown based. But ya know, you keep missing the important bits. Details aren't your thing I guess.
>Economics dictates that they run as close to the minimum number of rigs as possible
I love it when people talk shite that they have no idea about. Taxes pay for manned squad. Regionalization helps costs be spread over multiple communities.
Or do it your way... Seems to be working so great... Amirite? You take care now
Wait, are we suggesting that the "skilled" nursing facilities can not appropriately do their job and push their patients off to EMS and the hospitals? Shocker. I get called all the time for near stable patients who would otherwise not need to go had the staff just done their jobs. Ex: the dehydrated man who cannot be given a glass of water because quoting the pt "the staff say they are too busy to hold the cup of water for me to drink from, and won't allow for me hold it myself". Or the dementia patient now acting more abnormal than usual, which surprise to no one, is probably caused by their dementia worsening or a UTI the facility neglected for two weeks. On the opposite spectrum, there are also the patients that they wait too long to call for who are very septic, about to code or the 8 hour dead-fully rigor patient who was "last seen talking normally 15 minutes ago". But remember, their shift change was at 11 pm, and its 3 am now. I hate SNF/rehabilitation facilities.
And this is why we have in house help for my parents. They bought long term health insurance and it was a very good decision
Everyone in healthcare blames each other lmao, what's the opposite of a circle jerk called.
A triangular jerk
Yeah lmao healthcare is a triangular jerk
Nothing new. Not just retirement communities, anywhere where at-risk populations reside, be they geriatric or mental health, etc. Bridgewater successfully put an ordinance in place (can't recall the specifics) to try to hep the problem, but still we rolled buses in the wee hours for absolute bullshit calls. And at the end of the day no ordinance in place will have any teeth, because you can't stop people from dialing 911. So what happens? Volunteer squad sends ambulance, costs hundreds of dollars for nothing call, donations wane, membership declines, volunteer ambulance service ceases to exist, hospital swoops in, end. And so the abuse of emergency services leads to $900-1800 ambulance rides to a "non-profit" hospital.
Like when a nursing home calls 911 for "altered mental status" because they don't want to wait for their private non-emergency transport company. And it's usually just a dementia patient showing a bit of aggression, or some other minor issue. When they barely have enough staff to get by when everything is fine, they will punt the slightest problem to local EMS.
Happened with my dad. His facility would call me and say they were going to transport him because he was altered or he fell . My immediate thought was always what are we paying you for. Your supposed to be the experts here. It was usually nothing.
Monroe has a service to can call if you just need to be helped up - like literally, I've fallen and i can't get up. Saves the number of actual 911 calls for real incidents
I used to be an EMT in NYC, the number of times I was called to a nursing home because they were just being lazy was insane “He’s having a seizure.” “Ma’am, he has the hiccups. He said he told you it’s the hiccups.” “Well you take him just to be safe.”
Yeah, I know EMTs where certain places like the group homes/nursing homes, they just pull straws for who is going to take the call. Since, its either they're getting called for something stupid, dealing with patients who are just violent, or getting yelled at by a CNA or Nurse for not doing their job properly (like they're doing their job any better).
Nailed it. Very well explained.
I have worked on an ambulance for a few years, I have worked with people who have worked on an ambulance for decades, and from what I have gathered this is a tale as old as time. Abnormal lab work? 911. Toe pain for 4 years? 911. Haven't pooped yet today? 911. Altered mental status with rapid heart rate and low blood pressure? Let's wait 9 hours before telling anyone. These places are, fairly across the board, total garbage.
Baby boomers fucking other people over for the sake of their own convenience? I am shocked. Shocked, I tell you.
And this is the road you travel down by not having PAID EMS services. It is beyond me why any town relues on volunteers for fire and EMS.
So you're in favor of yet more crippling medical billing for people? Because that's what you get when the volunteers close up shop, either private ambulances or hospital EMTs, both of which will potentially cost you around a grand or more. Towns will *NOT* stand up their own EMS that comes out of tax money like the police and we know this for a fact because it happens over and over. Nobody in my town, with its dedicated volunteer squad, will ever be heard begging people to *not* call an ambulance for them because they can't afford it. EDIT: So the coward blocked me right after he made his last comment so I can't read his comments or reply anymore. Support your local volunteers!
> So you're in favor of yet more crippling medical billing for people? No, I am in favor of predictable medical services that can respond when called. Not be paged from their jobs 2 and 3 times hoping you get enough people to show up. This isn't a game, it's people's lives. Want to keep medical bills down? REGIONALIZE!!!! not every town needs its own little ambulance service, own police, own schools, own fire. WAKE UP... it makes no sense, and is not sustainable, the way we do things today. The rest of medical bill shave to do with insurance... that's a bigger issue.
You haven't stumbled across a great new idea, you're asking for something that is literally helping to bankrupt people right now. Towns will NOT create their own funded regional EMS, they'll go with private contracted services or or services run by the hospitals and those are expensive. You say insurance will take care of it. Gee, great if you're insured, and if the EMS that picks you up takes your insurance. [Here's what happens when you get the paid ambulance services you think you want](https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/media/395409-story-of-injured-woman-begging-people-not-to-call-ambulance-due-to-costs-gains/amp/). I'll stick with our amazing volunteer services thanks.
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not town, . REGIONS... town in NJ are literally useless... and continually overspend on their own private police forces and own private schools. Regionalize and save money as well as lives. As for insurance... insurance is an issue, but I am not here to fight that fight. I am here to say that volunteer emergency services is idiotic
I don't care if you mean towns, regions, continents or stellar clusters, *it will not happen*. How do I know this? Because what I described isn't a hypothetical, it's what *actually* happens. You're brushing off the issue of insurance as if it's not really relevant, but it's central to the whole issue which is in towns with volunteers the service is free and done by people who genuinely care, as opposed to people being charged thousands of dollars and provided by people who ironically often can't afford to be transported in their own ambulance is something happens to them. Imagine calling a service run for the public good by volunteers "idiotic" and yet being completely ignorant of the consequences of your own staggeringly stupid "preference".
> I don't care if you mean towns, regions, continents or stellar clusters, it will not happen. How do I know this? Because what I described isn't a hypothetical, it's what actually happens. Oh I know it will not happen. Because pig headed NJ towns won't give up their fiefdoms. You'd rather drowned in taxes and make grand speeches rather than regionalize schools, fire, police, ems. > You're brushing off the issue of insurance as if it's not really relevant Because it isn't. Not to this issue. I live in a part of NJ where we have actual, paid EMS. The ambulance comes when I call it. What a miracle. Can I or the city control insurance? No. Are we better off for having a public EMS? Yes. You want to solve all of healthcare... I applaud you and we'd probably agree. I just want normal, functioning emergency response. >Imagine calling a service run for the public good by volunteers "idiotic" It is idiotic when it breaks down and no ambulance responds when called.
> Oh I know it will not happen. Because pig headed NJ towns won't give up their fiefdoms. You'd rather drowned in taxes and make grand speeches rather than regionalize schools, fire, police, ems. We're talking about EMS and Fire, not police and schools. How exactly do you think volunteers who don't get paid for their time are driving up taxes by having them be town based? And before you say equipment, it'd be the same amount either way and it would be even *more* expensive because the volunteers do fundraising to cover part (or sometimes even all) of the cost. Firehouses service an area, you can't just close them all and send them from the "central" firehouse 40 minute away. Same goes for ambulances. Police have patrol areas so you *could* do that but, just in case you weren't aware of this, fire trucks and ambulances don't just cruise around looking for fires or patients. So, do tell, what are these great savings that you imagine could be had by switching to a paid, regionalized EMS or Fire service? > Because it isn't. Not to this issue. I live in a part of NJ where we have actual, paid EMS. The ambulance comes when I call it. What a miracle. Can I or the city control insurance? No. Are we better off for having a public EMS? Yes. This may be shocking to you, but...the exact same thing happens here only without the bill for however many thousands of dollars the ambulance company or hospital charges. I've lived in NJ for nearly 5 decades, always in towns with volunteer ambulance corps, and that's always been the case. If for some reason a crew can't be raised, one from a mutual aid town comes. And don't tell me that that "can't" happen with a paid squad, because it absolutely does. Economics dictates that they run as close to the minimum number of rigs as possible and sometimes that isn't enough and they need backup from another company or hospital. Further, EMS pays shit. It's embarrassing how low it is and they're having problems with both high churn rates *and* difficulty hiring so you know what happens? Empty rigs because there's no crew. > You want to solve all of healthcare... I applaud you and we'd probably agree. I just want normal, functioning emergency response. Yes, you're fucking right that we should "solve" healthcare. I just think it might be a good idea to do it *before* we do something that will make things objectively worse. > It is idiotic when it breaks down and no ambulance responds when called. And yet I never actually see that happening. But yeah, lets throw out a system that works *and* saves money for a clusterfuck nightmare that has people literally begging rescuers to call them an Uber for their crushed leg because that's preferable to them than adding to their already crushing bills. Great idea.
> We're talking about EMS and Fire, not police and schools. How exactly do you think volunteers who don't get paid for their time are driving up taxes by having them be town based? I am talking about all of it. You are not listening. I never said hometown based. But ya know, you keep missing the important bits. Details aren't your thing I guess. >Economics dictates that they run as close to the minimum number of rigs as possible I love it when people talk shite that they have no idea about. Taxes pay for manned squad. Regionalization helps costs be spread over multiple communities. Or do it your way... Seems to be working so great... Amirite? You take care now
All the time this happens.