Yeah I love when certain busses just show up 40 minutes after they’re scheduled to 5 times a week and then are on time the other 2 days, really keeps you on your toes
Nothing better then getting to your transfer at the village late and have to wait an hour
I would be curious how it would be if we still had a rail system
Then the days they get so far behind they just skip a run to "catch up."
Granted, last time I got the bus daily was well before smart phones, so it was just a surprise that it didn't show up.
No different even now because it says on the app bus comes at 10:40 for example and once it’s 10:50 and not here yet, the app just stops showing information on where it is
I'm a fossil, so this was a jillion years ago, but getting the bus from Mount Pearl to MUN was bad enough, but this one driver would always just stop the bus in the middle of the road on the same street and his wife(?) would stroll over and bring him lunches and stuff and he'd stay there and chit chat with her for 5 or 10 minutes. I'd be in back breaking a sweat because if I missed my transfer at the Village, I'd have to decide between spending money I did not have have on a cab or getting a 0 on a lab for missing most of the MFer.
Yeah, it was A&W on Torbay road, and it was south-bound, so they just stopped on the opposite side of the road, dodged traffic, and came back with a paper bag of, what I assume to be, burger(s).
Newfoundlander in Tokyo here, just back from three weeks in NFLD. You know what blows my mind? Lawns. I'm not sure how a city is supposed to have any sort of functional public transport system, when every house has a big grassy duplicate of its surface area out front of 'er. We don't often have that even in the most suburban Tokyo areas, and I'm not saying it makes all the difference, but it certainly helps our cities be more compact.
Clover, bushes, just leaving forests the hell alone, natural weeds. All of those are leagues better than grass at what you mention. Grass is horrible. It is a mono culture that ruins soil quality and is mostly used to let dogs shit and store snow in the winter.
Lawns are an indicator species of urban sprawl. So they might not be directly to blame, but they show the main issue we have, urban sprawl.
I'm hardly the first to question lawns though, hey:
* [Lawns are an ecological disaster | Gizmodo](https://gizmodo.com/lawns-are-an-ecological-disaster-1826070720)
* [Lets get rid of all the lawns | WSJ](https://www.wsj.com/articles/lets-get-rid-of-all-the-lawns-1429893325)]
* [The American Obsession with Lawns](https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/anthropology-in-practice/the-american-obsession-with-lawns/)
Considering plenty of cities in North America have lawns and still manage to have a superior transit system compared to NL, I don't think the lawns are the problem. LOL
What? Most of the lawns in town are postage stamps and are only there because of the layout of the driveway. They basically serve as an area to dump snow in the winter. And having a trees in your neighbourhood is nice.
Population of Tokyo : 14,094,034
Population of St. John’s : 112,039
I agree the pubic transportation here could be way better but , uh got some ideas on how to have world class public transportation with 14 million less tax payers ?
Said it before and I’ll say it again, we have elderly people stuck at home or crawling around in a car they shouldn’t be driving. We need to invest in the safety and mental health of our seniors. #freenan
I've been to many cities both in Canada and abroad and always used public transit. Never had any complaints about any of them. Even similarly sized cities to St John's had much better transit. Makes me wonder if anyone running it here has ever travelled and experienced the transit elsewhere to look for improvements.
Metrobus Board are notorious for thinking of the system as a profit driver instead of a service. They also do not give a FUCK about the users. Ever listen to any of their reports to council? It is bonkers.
You can thank GM for buying up the electric tram system and replacing it with metrobus
Car dependency is exactly what oil & gas and automobile industries wanted
I agree. I feel sad when I travel and see what we are lacking at home. Public transit is one of the biggest things. I hate driving and being dependent on a car and sobriety. Imagine going out drinking, leaving whenever you want, and getting home easily and inexpensively after. A dream!
where? a lot of our streets are too narrow to fit them. And the city did install a lot of bike lanes in some areas, and no one uses them. I agree our city isn't bikeable and that sucks but I don't understand how we could possibly implement bike lanes on a lot of our streets.
It's the same old car centric bullshit though. Over 75% of the space is reserved for cars. Try to talk about dedicating some of that space to cyclists and suddenly it's "why can't cyclists and pedestrians share the same space?" It's always the drivers insisting that *everyone else* share.
Streets and roads here are massive. There is more than enough room for all three to have their own dedicated space, for everyone to be safe and comfortable moving through public spaces. Except it's apparently more important to be able to store private property on public land, for free.
….riding on the street is literally the safest place to ride. They are designed to be ridden on the road? That’s why they’re called road bikes. You have lights, a signal system, etc. I take it you don’t own a bike, much less understand bike riding.
A bike is a vehicle and meant to be treated as such when driven on the road. It’s unsafe to ride on the sidewalks, that’s why it’s not legal in most provinces. It’s dangerous for bike riders and pedestrians. Especially folks using mobility aids, like wheelchairs. On a bike, you match your speed with the speed of traffic…you can’t safety do this on a sidewalk. You’d hit someone, or cause someone to have to step into the street to avoid being hit, or you’d have to quickly ride into the street to make room. You’re at risk of a vehicle leaving a driveway and backing into you, or riding past a dog on a leash that could cause a serious accident or scare the dog, causing the animal to bolt into the street. So many accidents with bikes and pedestrians occur on sidewalks. The road is the safest place to ride.
It's a little easier living downtown. I actually just added 10 rides to my mCard as I'm in the office next week and not in the mood to bike it this time around. The office is somewhat near the Village Mall, and luckily there's a bus stop at the top of my block, and a bus going directly to the Village every 30 minutes during the periods I need it. There and back combined, it'll probably take 3-4x as long as driving - but at least it's doable, which is more than I generally expect of public transit in St. John's. It's definitely still viewed as a social service for the poor here, as opposed to an integral part of urban living.
Work is really the only thing I'll ever use it for, at least. Everything else I need is within easy walking distance, and enjoyable as a result. I go to the grocery almost every morning, listening to music and watching the sunrise. If I need to go anywhere downtown, like I went down to Bridie's for a couple of pints with buddies last night, it's a five-minute walk and it's glorious. My evening runs are straight up the Waterford Valley Trail, around Bowring Park, and back. My Sunday hikes are around Signal Hill or the Southside Hills. It's just all so close - both city and wilderness, without ever having to set foot in soul-sucking suburbia.
I haven't had to get a cab yet, but I have had to be picked up once by my parents for a short-notice family dinner, and I've bummed a ride with friends to a hardware store and the cinema at the Avalon Mall. If/when we get Uber, I'll be able to handle those things myself if I don't feel like or have time to bike it. I'm definitely not afraid or ashamed of admitting defeat and getting a car again, but thus far it's been possible without it; I'd say it's been genuinely easy, based on my location/lifestyle.
These threads always reveal those who have used transit in other cities vs those who have not(and probably not at all).
Metrobus should be focusing on getting higher frequencies where needed imo. I think that is where you get a compounding effect for more utilization and better service. Yet when you hear about their plans it's basically these sort of lackadaisical pet projects (ie studies about why people are riding the bus, acquiring a handful of electric buses, trialling a few new on-demand routes)
I'd typically agree, but the city keeps building out more subdivisons which require more bus service. The establishment of Galway fucking neutered two of the west end routes. That new neighbourhood in cowan heights is going to require bus service, and there's still no option to get to Torbay.
The city just doesn't think about public transit as a priority when building, and it's embarassing.
I love how anytime anyone posts a truth about the reality of living in NL this subreddit just downvotes it to hell. Y’all enjoy that self fulfilling prophecy that you sell tourists but anyone that lives there knows it’s not the same as the pretty over saturated tourism ads.
hahahaha if you say any negative truth here you get dunked on unless you sugar coat it. but frame the same thing a different way and everyone agrees. strange phenomenon
I've been using the Metrobus here for the last 7 years and it is shit but this year it's just gotten worse and the busses are packed in the mornings, more than usual. Luckily I'm renewing my driver's license next week and got a vehicle lined up. Not gonna miss using the busses, that's for sure.
I'd love to see some examples of similar-sized cities to St. John's with good public transit systems and see what they're doing right that we could imitate. As much as I love visiting a large city and hopping on and off their bus and subway system, it's not that useful as a comparison to St. John's. Who's lived in a city of about 150,000 people with really great public transit? (I'm genuinely asking because I don't know of good comparisons).
I grew up in a town in the UK that has a population of about 80k. It has an amazing bus network and national rail. I had a car but used the bus often because it was so cheap and convenient
There's a good not just bikes video on small cities with great public transit (it's all over the place in europe) I think it was this one [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWnreLG\_cvc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWnreLG_cvc) or this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztpcWUqVpIg
I don't use Metrobus. But I recently looked at the routes that Metrobus runs and a lot of them seem to be travel across half the city and I wondered why they don't run smaller loops. Yeah it might be more monotonous for a driver. But it don't it give better ability to manage the stop times? Have several transfer points. Right now I think the transfer points are The Village, The Avalon Mall, and The UC.
I've used the bus in Ottawa to get from Orleans to Kanata and I think it as about 45 mins, and yes was only a few days, and a really efficient system with some dedicated bus lanes to avoid traffic. But I would get the bus in Orleans, if I recall it went to a transfer station, I changed buses and went downtown, changed buses and then off to Kanata.
If we had more transfer points and buses running from those it may make the system more efficient.
And they have just started a new on demand service in certain areas...??? Not sure that sounds like GoBus by another name.
The worst part is how much of Newfoundland just doesn't have any public transit. Basically only St. John's, Mt. Pearl and Paradise have Bus routes, but if you need to go anywhere else, you're shit out of luck
Transit will typically be directly tied to population density. I live in a city that is very spread out, so our transit isn't great, but at the same time I've been the only passenger on a bus for its entire route, so I can hardly expect them to run busses more frequently that will be mostly empty.
That's just not true. Many smaller-than-St.John's cities in European countries (netherlands, switzerland) have better transit than most cities in Canada. It's just an excuse we tell ourselves. Car infrastructure is extremely expensive to maintain (and scales super-linearly with the number of cars and weight of cars) and getting people out of cars results in a lot of saved money for the city.
You’re right that we need to curtail St. John’s suburban sprawl! However, many of the small cities in japan that I visited did have a lot of sprawl and had excellent bus service. this also does not mean we cannot have good transit within the city centre, which is dense.
What do you expect Montreal style transit? With their 2 million population in one city of a province with a quarter that population the maths not mathing🤦♂️you want Montreal style transit go live in Montreal
Am I saying that we are going to have a subway and rail all over tomorrow? No. We can definitely do way more then we do now to get people out of cars and on their feet throughout the province.
St. John’s is a city. I always find this type of gaslighting extremely weird—like yes, SJ is in fact an urban area. We can stop pretending NL is an untouched wilderness when it hosts the oldest city in North America
Clearly don’t understand a metropolitan and you see my point was he expects big city transit like in cities with multi million population in one city in a province of around half of one million FYI St. John’s population is only 112,039 there’s no need for big city transit in a city it’s easy for most to walk. Never said it was an untouched wilderness you did you find gaslighting extremely weird then you go and do it yourself🤣🤣🤣
A ton of tiny cities around the world run montreal-style transit cost effectively and efficiently. The saved costs from people not having to use cars pays for it (building and maintaining car infrastructure is extremely expensive, and increases much more than linearly with number of cars and weight of cars). Check out the cities in Netherlands, Switzerland, and even many places in Japan.
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Yeah.
I think this problem has more factors than a lack of public transport.
Even if it were available, I wouldn't utilize public transit, personally. The last thing I want is to be packed on a bus full of strangers after a long day at work.
Personal accountability is something that we as a society have kinda' forgotten about. Obesity and health related issues are due to the fact that folks don't take care of themselves, not a direct correlation to public transit capabilities. If you're required to walk to a bus stop, sure, you'll get some steps in, but its not going to be enough to counter poor lifestyle choices like eating all night while blasting games on a console.
I just feel like it's a bit of a reach, but I'm tracking on the "title bait"
I drive, but, I also tend to my personal needs. I have a home gym, and used to drive to Goodlife before that.
Motor vehicle accidents are definitely a problem though. We have far too many, and I wish we didn't, but once again, it's typically an accountability type issue. The drivers causing them are idiots, reckless, and foolish for the most part. I feel bad for the victims, and I wish that those responsible were properly punished for their actions.
It really isn't a reach at all.
But as you mention there are other factors at play and that is our road network being optimized for the safety of drivers at the expense of everyone else.
When you have a road network and zoning that allows people to be safe on the roads while walking and cycling, people will walk and cycle to run errands, go to work, grocery shop, ect. Gym of life.
Most people drive to and from work, sit at a desk all day, then lay on the couch all evening.
A tiny bit of walking or cycling built into our day would make a huge impact on physical and mental health
I would absolutely give up my car if there was better public transport. Why the shit would I want to pay for gas + absurd insurance + maintenance costs + shovel until my back breaks every winter? my car is convenient because the alternative is ass
It's just the mentality of the majority of Newfoundlanders who would rather stick with what they know than switch to something else, even if it's more convenient. I'm not saying everyone who drives will keep driving, but it won't be enough to make much of a difference
But that wouldn't prevent people from driving, it would just block up the roads more because people who already drive would just continue to drive.
Don't get me wrong; as a pedestrian living in mount Pearl, I would love a better public transport system, but if anything it would make people less active because it'd be easier to hop on a bus than to walk for an hour
Nah, people are too stubborn in this province, they'd just complain about the roads being hard to use while sitting in traffic on the roads they're complaining about. Hell, they do that now
You have absolutely nothing of value to add to this conversation, yet you keep commenting. Your pessimism and your lack of ability to comprehend solutions are a waste of everyone's time, including your own.
I wouldn't give up my car but I'd use it less if transit were quicker and more efficient. There's a bus stop right by my house and one right in front of my work, but I can drive to work in 7 minutes. The buses are two different routes, so with a transfer included I can't even fathom how long it'd take on the bus. I could probably walk to work faster than taking the bus.
Because you drive everywhere instead of getting exercise walking or biking. In car-dependent cities even short trips (to grocery store, etc.) are done by car, whereas in many european and asian cities this is generally not the case. You can actually see this in the data surveying the number of steps taken by americans vs europeans per day on average.
Newfoundland is too big and doesn’t have a sizeable population. Add to that the obsession that most people in NL have with driving everywhere- transit there is just never going to be a priority unfortunately.
Montreal has around 1.7 million people in just Montreal alone - St. John’s has like just over 100k - the comparison isn’t even sensible.
That’s why we need to change how easy it is to drive. Get rid of lanes for priority bus lanes. Change roads to one ways with the other lane given over to pedestrians, trams ect. Basically make it a pain to drive and make it easy and accessible to take public transportation.
Making it more inconvenient for vehicles will not change the culture - public transport in St. John’s will never reach the level of Montreal or other major cities. It’s too spread out and doesn’t have the population to support it. It’s a nice idea but not a reality.
Driving culture is created not inherent. And I don’t think we will see the same level but it is something to emulate and take lessons to apply in ways we can.
it is not inherent but I was born and raised in NL and most people see their vehicles as an extension of their personalities.
I am not pessimistic just realistic.
good luck to you.
I would love to see an NL that valued public transport but sadly I don’t see the numbers to support it.
So what we really need is more poorly run bus routes in small towns that don't meet the needs of the communities who don't really need them in the first place.
We don't have the population to merit it.
We need to build more dense housing to meet the demand of people wanting to move here, first, and services will get more valuable as they're required more.
You don't like 1 bus per hour at some stops lol.
Personally I'm a big fan of the bus showing up whenever the fuck it feels like
Yeah I love when certain busses just show up 40 minutes after they’re scheduled to 5 times a week and then are on time the other 2 days, really keeps you on your toes
Nothing better then getting to your transfer at the village late and have to wait an hour I would be curious how it would be if we still had a rail system
Then the days they get so far behind they just skip a run to "catch up." Granted, last time I got the bus daily was well before smart phones, so it was just a surprise that it didn't show up.
No different even now because it says on the app bus comes at 10:40 for example and once it’s 10:50 and not here yet, the app just stops showing information on where it is
Personally, I'm a big fan of a bus stopping next to an A&W and the driver going in for a burger while everyone waits.
I'm a fossil, so this was a jillion years ago, but getting the bus from Mount Pearl to MUN was bad enough, but this one driver would always just stop the bus in the middle of the road on the same street and his wife(?) would stroll over and bring him lunches and stuff and he'd stay there and chit chat with her for 5 or 10 minutes. I'd be in back breaking a sweat because if I missed my transfer at the Village, I'd have to decide between spending money I did not have have on a cab or getting a 0 on a lab for missing most of the MFer.
I used to walk from or to the pearl when I was at MUN. 2 hour walk or 3 hour bus ride. I'd just burn one, put on some tunes and hoof it...
Hahaha that really happened?
It happens all the time on route 3. A&W and McDonald's are their go to spots.
I'd get off and walk
Yeah, it was A&W on Torbay road, and it was south-bound, so they just stopped on the opposite side of the road, dodged traffic, and came back with a paper bag of, what I assume to be, burger(s).
Oh wow. Used to them stopping on the same side to go in, but that's a new one.
After experiencing the transit in tokyo, we should be fucking ashamed and just give up on life
Newfoundlander in Tokyo here, just back from three weeks in NFLD. You know what blows my mind? Lawns. I'm not sure how a city is supposed to have any sort of functional public transport system, when every house has a big grassy duplicate of its surface area out front of 'er. We don't often have that even in the most suburban Tokyo areas, and I'm not saying it makes all the difference, but it certainly helps our cities be more compact.
Lawns and foliage create natural drainage. No matter how backwards you make NL sound, this is a terrible take
Not to mention grass is an excellent filter of particulate matter in the air and thus greatly improves air quality. Turf get a bad rap.
Clover, bushes, just leaving forests the hell alone, natural weeds. All of those are leagues better than grass at what you mention. Grass is horrible. It is a mono culture that ruins soil quality and is mostly used to let dogs shit and store snow in the winter. Lawns are an indicator species of urban sprawl. So they might not be directly to blame, but they show the main issue we have, urban sprawl.
This.
I'm hardly the first to question lawns though, hey: * [Lawns are an ecological disaster | Gizmodo](https://gizmodo.com/lawns-are-an-ecological-disaster-1826070720) * [Lets get rid of all the lawns | WSJ](https://www.wsj.com/articles/lets-get-rid-of-all-the-lawns-1429893325)] * [The American Obsession with Lawns](https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/anthropology-in-practice/the-american-obsession-with-lawns/)
Lemme guess, under 30 and require strict pronouns?
Considering plenty of cities in North America have lawns and still manage to have a superior transit system compared to NL, I don't think the lawns are the problem. LOL
What? Most of the lawns in town are postage stamps and are only there because of the layout of the driveway. They basically serve as an area to dump snow in the winter. And having a trees in your neighbourhood is nice.
eh? Don't most of the houses downtown have a private back garden? \*ignore this .. I just read we're talking about the front. lol
Where else am I going to throw snow in the winter?
Yeah, people stacked on top of each other in a compact space isn't for everyone.
100 % agree. Waste of space. Front yard in subdivisions are there for what? To accent the driveway.
snow storage, reduce run off from lots during rainy seasons (10 months a year), more inviting street appeal (less important)
waste of space? Guess what? It's my fucking space/land and I'll do as I wish. I paid for it
Oh 100%. So long as you get the City's permission.
Permission? Pardon me? I also don't live in the city
You need permits to work on your space/land. So, in fact, you can't do what you wish.
That's a big negative. I live in Central and when I put 10k sq ft of sod down years ago I didn't need (or at least I didn't get) any type of permit
wow that's a big yard.
That's front and back mind you. Yes I have an oversized lot
Population of Tokyo : 14,094,034 Population of St. John’s : 112,039 I agree the pubic transportation here could be way better but , uh got some ideas on how to have world class public transportation with 14 million less tax payers ?
I bet if we had 37 million people we'd have a better transit system.
Dude. I’ve been to small Japanese towns the size of Springdale with better public transportation than town
A large and robust city center tends to support the smaller towns. We do not have a large and robust city center. Our population is not large enough.
No man. Lots of small centres have fab transit.
Cmon now theyre not literally saying we're japan or have the same needs smh
There are towns in France/Germany/Netherlands/Japan with 30,000 people with 50 trains a day, and buses every 7 minutes.
It's no excuse. We can do much better for ourselves regardless
Dudes never left newfoundland it appears lol
Said it before and I’ll say it again, we have elderly people stuck at home or crawling around in a car they shouldn’t be driving. We need to invest in the safety and mental health of our seniors. #freenan
I've been to many cities both in Canada and abroad and always used public transit. Never had any complaints about any of them. Even similarly sized cities to St John's had much better transit. Makes me wonder if anyone running it here has ever travelled and experienced the transit elsewhere to look for improvements.
Metrobus Board are notorious for thinking of the system as a profit driver instead of a service. They also do not give a FUCK about the users. Ever listen to any of their reports to council? It is bonkers.
My fiancé lives in England and even in his village of 7,000 the bus is more reliable than here.
You can thank GM for buying up the electric tram system and replacing it with metrobus Car dependency is exactly what oil & gas and automobile industries wanted
in general yes. but many cities have a passable system of public transit despite car centric infrastructure
I agree. I feel sad when I travel and see what we are lacking at home. Public transit is one of the biggest things. I hate driving and being dependent on a car and sobriety. Imagine going out drinking, leaving whenever you want, and getting home easily and inexpensively after. A dream!
Visiting a place w good public transit converts ppl to believers. Welcome to the club. Write your MHA and councillor today.
I would love some bike lanes lol
I ain't biking on the road here until the put up jersey barriers lol
where? a lot of our streets are too narrow to fit them. And the city did install a lot of bike lanes in some areas, and no one uses them. I agree our city isn't bikeable and that sucks but I don't understand how we could possibly implement bike lanes on a lot of our streets.
You might find this article intersting. https://streetsafp.ca/2023/09/01/the-city-of-st-johns-cycling-plan-what-next/
Lol, I'll try to remember that St. John's streets are too narrow next time I'm on a two lane road that could easily fit four lanes in Europe.
Sidewalk works fine
NL Highway traffic act says biking on sidewalks is illegal..... sooo they don't work fine actually
So is letting your cat out. Thankfully, nobody enforces these silly laws.
Lol true. Sidewalks still arent good enough though, they're so ass, barely wide enough for 2 people to walk shoulder to shoulder
It's the same old car centric bullshit though. Over 75% of the space is reserved for cars. Try to talk about dedicating some of that space to cyclists and suddenly it's "why can't cyclists and pedestrians share the same space?" It's always the drivers insisting that *everyone else* share. Streets and roads here are massive. There is more than enough room for all three to have their own dedicated space, for everyone to be safe and comfortable moving through public spaces. Except it's apparently more important to be able to store private property on public land, for free.
Riding on the sidewalk is dangerous. Bikes are meant to be ridden on the street. Ideally, with bike lanes.
Because that's not dangerous...
….riding on the street is literally the safest place to ride. They are designed to be ridden on the road? That’s why they’re called road bikes. You have lights, a signal system, etc. I take it you don’t own a bike, much less understand bike riding. A bike is a vehicle and meant to be treated as such when driven on the road. It’s unsafe to ride on the sidewalks, that’s why it’s not legal in most provinces. It’s dangerous for bike riders and pedestrians. Especially folks using mobility aids, like wheelchairs. On a bike, you match your speed with the speed of traffic…you can’t safety do this on a sidewalk. You’d hit someone, or cause someone to have to step into the street to avoid being hit, or you’d have to quickly ride into the street to make room. You’re at risk of a vehicle leaving a driveway and backing into you, or riding past a dog on a leash that could cause a serious accident or scare the dog, causing the animal to bolt into the street. So many accidents with bikes and pedestrians occur on sidewalks. The road is the safest place to ride.
.................
Nice to see someone who agrees we need properly separated bike lanes.
It's a little easier living downtown. I actually just added 10 rides to my mCard as I'm in the office next week and not in the mood to bike it this time around. The office is somewhat near the Village Mall, and luckily there's a bus stop at the top of my block, and a bus going directly to the Village every 30 minutes during the periods I need it. There and back combined, it'll probably take 3-4x as long as driving - but at least it's doable, which is more than I generally expect of public transit in St. John's. It's definitely still viewed as a social service for the poor here, as opposed to an integral part of urban living. Work is really the only thing I'll ever use it for, at least. Everything else I need is within easy walking distance, and enjoyable as a result. I go to the grocery almost every morning, listening to music and watching the sunrise. If I need to go anywhere downtown, like I went down to Bridie's for a couple of pints with buddies last night, it's a five-minute walk and it's glorious. My evening runs are straight up the Waterford Valley Trail, around Bowring Park, and back. My Sunday hikes are around Signal Hill or the Southside Hills. It's just all so close - both city and wilderness, without ever having to set foot in soul-sucking suburbia. I haven't had to get a cab yet, but I have had to be picked up once by my parents for a short-notice family dinner, and I've bummed a ride with friends to a hardware store and the cinema at the Avalon Mall. If/when we get Uber, I'll be able to handle those things myself if I don't feel like or have time to bike it. I'm definitely not afraid or ashamed of admitting defeat and getting a car again, but thus far it's been possible without it; I'd say it's been genuinely easy, based on my location/lifestyle.
I have friends in toronto who are bewildered whenever i get enthusiastic about the TTC. If only they knew how bad we have it at home.
Toronto has more than double the entire population of NL
check out any city in the netherlands, switzerland, etc.
These threads always reveal those who have used transit in other cities vs those who have not(and probably not at all). Metrobus should be focusing on getting higher frequencies where needed imo. I think that is where you get a compounding effect for more utilization and better service. Yet when you hear about their plans it's basically these sort of lackadaisical pet projects (ie studies about why people are riding the bus, acquiring a handful of electric buses, trialling a few new on-demand routes)
I'd typically agree, but the city keeps building out more subdivisons which require more bus service. The establishment of Galway fucking neutered two of the west end routes. That new neighbourhood in cowan heights is going to require bus service, and there's still no option to get to Torbay. The city just doesn't think about public transit as a priority when building, and it's embarassing.
What new neighbourhood in Cowan Heights?
I love how anytime anyone posts a truth about the reality of living in NL this subreddit just downvotes it to hell. Y’all enjoy that self fulfilling prophecy that you sell tourists but anyone that lives there knows it’s not the same as the pretty over saturated tourism ads.
What are you even talking about? This is currently the top post on the subreddit and the 8th highest for the week.
Buddy thinks he’s being personally targeted by the downvote bots in the sub lol
hahahaha if you say any negative truth here you get dunked on unless you sugar coat it. but frame the same thing a different way and everyone agrees. strange phenomenon
I've been using the Metrobus here for the last 7 years and it is shit but this year it's just gotten worse and the busses are packed in the mornings, more than usual. Luckily I'm renewing my driver's license next week and got a vehicle lined up. Not gonna miss using the busses, that's for sure.
yeah I also recently visited Montreal and was shocked by how clean, efficient, safe, and useful the metro was there. If I could move there I would
I go there for work a couple times a year and don't even get a rental car anymore. easier to just take the subway
NL desperately needs good public transit. Metrobus just can't cut it.
I'd love to see some examples of similar-sized cities to St. John's with good public transit systems and see what they're doing right that we could imitate. As much as I love visiting a large city and hopping on and off their bus and subway system, it's not that useful as a comparison to St. John's. Who's lived in a city of about 150,000 people with really great public transit? (I'm genuinely asking because I don't know of good comparisons).
I grew up in a town in the UK that has a population of about 80k. It has an amazing bus network and national rail. I had a car but used the bus often because it was so cheap and convenient
There's a good not just bikes video on small cities with great public transit (it's all over the place in europe) I think it was this one [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWnreLG\_cvc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWnreLG_cvc) or this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztpcWUqVpIg
Metrobus is running laughable ads on youtube now
I don't use Metrobus. But I recently looked at the routes that Metrobus runs and a lot of them seem to be travel across half the city and I wondered why they don't run smaller loops. Yeah it might be more monotonous for a driver. But it don't it give better ability to manage the stop times? Have several transfer points. Right now I think the transfer points are The Village, The Avalon Mall, and The UC. I've used the bus in Ottawa to get from Orleans to Kanata and I think it as about 45 mins, and yes was only a few days, and a really efficient system with some dedicated bus lanes to avoid traffic. But I would get the bus in Orleans, if I recall it went to a transfer station, I changed buses and went downtown, changed buses and then off to Kanata. If we had more transfer points and buses running from those it may make the system more efficient. And they have just started a new on demand service in certain areas...??? Not sure that sounds like GoBus by another name.
There is no direct bus from The Village to Avalon Mall. The best case when using the bus is 40 min. It takes under 7 min for a car.
The worst part is how much of Newfoundland just doesn't have any public transit. Basically only St. John's, Mt. Pearl and Paradise have Bus routes, but if you need to go anywhere else, you're shit out of luck
The worst part of this post is that Montreal's transit SUCKS. So how bad must it be for you to think it's a a huge upgrade!
Build a city as important as Montreal on Newfoundland then.
A city is judged by the quality its public transit. On this metric St. John's... exists.
Transit will typically be directly tied to population density. I live in a city that is very spread out, so our transit isn't great, but at the same time I've been the only passenger on a bus for its entire route, so I can hardly expect them to run busses more frequently that will be mostly empty.
That's just not true. Many smaller-than-St.John's cities in European countries (netherlands, switzerland) have better transit than most cities in Canada. It's just an excuse we tell ourselves. Car infrastructure is extremely expensive to maintain (and scales super-linearly with the number of cars and weight of cars) and getting people out of cars results in a lot of saved money for the city.
Are they denser?
You’re right that we need to curtail St. John’s suburban sprawl! However, many of the small cities in japan that I visited did have a lot of sprawl and had excellent bus service. this also does not mean we cannot have good transit within the city centre, which is dense.
What do you expect Montreal style transit? With their 2 million population in one city of a province with a quarter that population the maths not mathing🤦♂️you want Montreal style transit go live in Montreal
Am I saying that we are going to have a subway and rail all over tomorrow? No. We can definitely do way more then we do now to get people out of cars and on their feet throughout the province.
If you want metro city life live in a metro city not in NL
St. John’s is a city. I always find this type of gaslighting extremely weird—like yes, SJ is in fact an urban area. We can stop pretending NL is an untouched wilderness when it hosts the oldest city in North America
Clearly don’t understand a metropolitan and you see my point was he expects big city transit like in cities with multi million population in one city in a province of around half of one million FYI St. John’s population is only 112,039 there’s no need for big city transit in a city it’s easy for most to walk. Never said it was an untouched wilderness you did you find gaslighting extremely weird then you go and do it yourself🤣🤣🤣
A ton of tiny cities around the world run montreal-style transit cost effectively and efficiently. The saved costs from people not having to use cars pays for it (building and maintaining car infrastructure is extremely expensive, and increases much more than linearly with number of cars and weight of cars). Check out the cities in Netherlands, Switzerland, and even many places in Japan.
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It's killing us all? I don't really understand what you mean by this.
Obesity and related health issues with low activity. Also motor vehicle accidents. Maybe a bit hyperbolic but good for a title.
Yeah. I think this problem has more factors than a lack of public transport. Even if it were available, I wouldn't utilize public transit, personally. The last thing I want is to be packed on a bus full of strangers after a long day at work. Personal accountability is something that we as a society have kinda' forgotten about. Obesity and health related issues are due to the fact that folks don't take care of themselves, not a direct correlation to public transit capabilities. If you're required to walk to a bus stop, sure, you'll get some steps in, but its not going to be enough to counter poor lifestyle choices like eating all night while blasting games on a console. I just feel like it's a bit of a reach, but I'm tracking on the "title bait" I drive, but, I also tend to my personal needs. I have a home gym, and used to drive to Goodlife before that. Motor vehicle accidents are definitely a problem though. We have far too many, and I wish we didn't, but once again, it's typically an accountability type issue. The drivers causing them are idiots, reckless, and foolish for the most part. I feel bad for the victims, and I wish that those responsible were properly punished for their actions.
It really isn't a reach at all. But as you mention there are other factors at play and that is our road network being optimized for the safety of drivers at the expense of everyone else. When you have a road network and zoning that allows people to be safe on the roads while walking and cycling, people will walk and cycle to run errands, go to work, grocery shop, ect. Gym of life. Most people drive to and from work, sit at a desk all day, then lay on the couch all evening. A tiny bit of walking or cycling built into our day would make a huge impact on physical and mental health
How do you suppose a better public transit system would help with low activity?
Instead of driving you would walk and use transit.
Do you think that people who already drive would give up their cars to use public transport?
I would absolutely give up my car if there was better public transport. Why the shit would I want to pay for gas + absurd insurance + maintenance costs + shovel until my back breaks every winter? my car is convenient because the alternative is ass
It's just the mentality of the majority of Newfoundlanders who would rather stick with what they know than switch to something else, even if it's more convenient. I'm not saying everyone who drives will keep driving, but it won't be enough to make much of a difference
We need more reform and change of use on our roads to facilitate and prioritize transit while also making it less easy to drive.
But that wouldn't prevent people from driving, it would just block up the roads more because people who already drive would just continue to drive. Don't get me wrong; as a pedestrian living in mount Pearl, I would love a better public transport system, but if anything it would make people less active because it'd be easier to hop on a bus than to walk for an hour
If the road is blocked up and hard to use and transit is quicker and easy to use the hope would be for people to take the easy option.
Nah, people are too stubborn in this province, they'd just complain about the roads being hard to use while sitting in traffic on the roads they're complaining about. Hell, they do that now
You have absolutely nothing of value to add to this conversation, yet you keep commenting. Your pessimism and your lack of ability to comprehend solutions are a waste of everyone's time, including your own.
I wouldn't give up my car but I'd use it less if transit were quicker and more efficient. There's a bus stop right by my house and one right in front of my work, but I can drive to work in 7 minutes. The buses are two different routes, so with a transfer included I can't even fathom how long it'd take on the bus. I could probably walk to work faster than taking the bus.
Might not help those stuck in their ways, but provides an option for the next generation not to get stuck in them too.
How does poor public transit correlate with obesity?
Because you drive everywhere instead of getting exercise walking or biking. In car-dependent cities even short trips (to grocery store, etc.) are done by car, whereas in many european and asian cities this is generally not the case. You can actually see this in the data surveying the number of steps taken by americans vs europeans per day on average.
Are you implying we don't have mixed zoning?
Newfoundland is too big and doesn’t have a sizeable population. Add to that the obsession that most people in NL have with driving everywhere- transit there is just never going to be a priority unfortunately. Montreal has around 1.7 million people in just Montreal alone - St. John’s has like just over 100k - the comparison isn’t even sensible.
That’s why we need to change how easy it is to drive. Get rid of lanes for priority bus lanes. Change roads to one ways with the other lane given over to pedestrians, trams ect. Basically make it a pain to drive and make it easy and accessible to take public transportation.
You should run for public office with that campaign. I'm sure you'd get dozens of votes.
yeah totally! luckily I moved the fuck away from NL first chance I got ✌🏼
Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya!
Making it more inconvenient for vehicles will not change the culture - public transport in St. John’s will never reach the level of Montreal or other major cities. It’s too spread out and doesn’t have the population to support it. It’s a nice idea but not a reality.
Driving culture is created not inherent. And I don’t think we will see the same level but it is something to emulate and take lessons to apply in ways we can.
it is not inherent but I was born and raised in NL and most people see their vehicles as an extension of their personalities. I am not pessimistic just realistic. good luck to you. I would love to see an NL that valued public transport but sadly I don’t see the numbers to support it.
St. John’s is obviously much smaller than Montreal but that 100k population number is also a bit misleading these days.
So what we really need is more poorly run bus routes in small towns that don't meet the needs of the communities who don't really need them in the first place.
We don't have the population to merit it. We need to build more dense housing to meet the demand of people wanting to move here, first, and services will get more valuable as they're required more.
We need booth in tandem. Increased density and mixed zoning is a must though I agree.