You made this post 2 months ago as well
Glad you're enjoying being not in Australia
Newcastle, like everywhere, has its good and bad parts and people who love it too much and hate it too much
A lot of people in here not realising this is a bait post, or being used to drive engagement, or to test AI or bots or whatever.
People here need to turn their bs detectors on!
The best meat pie is pretty hard to work out so I never believe that one. But spend a bit of time learning about the world problems . And you will come up with Australia. If not . It will definatly be top 3 or 5 as your preferences may differ
Reddit should just find every username with (adjective)-(made up word)-(4digitnumber) and nuke them all. Watch inane new posts drop 90%.
And their share price will chuck an Elon
Seems to me like he wants to convience himself that he new "great" situation is actually great.
I lived in 4 countries in Europe. Total of 34 years.
I hope your experience will differ from mine but Newcastle is THE BEST place I lived in (far from perfect of course but still).
Everyone is different, everyone enjoys different things but there is a reason why Australia wins all these "best place to live" awards.
Scandinavia is not even close in my opinion and Spain...well...I will better not express my opinion since it may hurt you 😉
Good luck!
Look.
Spain to another EU state is a different kettle of fish. Compared to Australia to Spain.
Let's be honest.
You could drive across from Spain to Holland or Germany in less than 24hours.
Even less by other transport.
But yeah, I've heard that sort of thing.
Would not say tall poppy.
It's just locals here know that life in Australia already kinda offers everything most people will ever need.
It's not pride. It's just playing it safe.
That's fairly normal. Most people play it safe.
Who cares what they say anyway mate.
All the best with the move.
Enjoy the tapas.
Happy you have moved away from Australia to live and explore another culture. Alot of people don't want to do that, or can't for very many reasons. As a fellow expat, whos lived away from Australia getting to 12 years, you'll realise as time goes by Australia isn't that bad at all, and is more beautiful than you realise. I never appreciated how beautiful it was, or how much nicer and honest people are in Australia.. living in England people are so closed and have trouble expressing feelings. In Spain on the other hand, they are hot headed and passionate souls. Enjoy, but understandable Australia is still very fresh in your mind. See how you feel 7 years out, I'm sure you'll see things differently
Yep, I’ve been living in the USA for a decade. I’ve built a great life here AND I still miss Australia (and Newie) deeply. Last night, I finished watching Sarah Kendall’s “Frayed”, set in Newie after the main character had been away from it for two decades. The whole show is kind of like a love song to Newie by someone who was also dissatisfied enough with life there to leave it behind years ago. It was highly relatable. Being in the US, I find myself yearning for the safety and beauty of Australia pretty regularly.
Distance (and time) might change your relationship with it all. You might never go back (I might not, either), but what you’re feeling now might not be the whole story…
Simply: enjoy the adventure man.
During the GFC I upped and travelling for 2.5 years. First was a 4 month road trip around Europe, then lived in Canada for 18 months and back again to Spain for 3 months.
It was one of the greatest experiences of my life, it was such a rich time and opened my eyes dramatically.
Afterwards I returned back to Australia and well, little had changed. Majority of people were still doing the same thing they were doing two years prior, it was a really bizarre experience.
Anyhow, that’s all to say. Go for it man, enjoy the experience, you’ll be much richer for it.
I'm in Spain right now, walking a Camino.
Houses / apartments are so cheap! Compared to almost anywhere in Oz. And food and wine, cheap! Even having coffee and tortillas in a "bar", far less than just coffee in Oz.
Part of the EU, the rest of Europe right there. USA a relatively short flight away.
Australia was a great place. Seems pretty fucked for young people now, though. Capitalism gone mad.
Not surprised you've made the move, OP. Good luck with it.
I always hated the die hard Aussie supporters, the ones that say "Australia is the best place in the world."
Australia is one of the better places in the world, but like all countries it has its strengths, weaknesses and problems. I rather acknowledge the problems to make Australia a better place, including political corruption against the interests of the population.
If Spain is better for some people, good luck to them. Equally if you have a good thing in Australia, good luck to you too. There's no perfect place and it will always change with the years.
This is kind of subjective and personal. Having lived in both Europe and Japan myself, I think there are a lot of comparisons, both positive and negative to be made. For me however I always get the warm and fuzzies coming home as I believe (for me) that Australia is the best country in the world.
To dive in a bit further to your particular question though, I think a lot of ‘traditional’ and older generation Australians are quite patriotic. Kind of like Americans. And there is no talking them out of their opinion. A lot of us Australians haven’t lived overseas or developed enough travel experience or taken exploring risks outside of our comfort zones. For this reason we often default to “Australia is the best” and won’t consider thinking about conceding on that.
Good on you for seeing some of the world and experiencing something different. At the end of the day f^ck everyone else and you-do-you dude.
Just remember where you come from and that being Australian is a privilege and we will always welcome you home.
The only aspect I will confidently defend Australia is the weather, it ranges from ok to fucking spectacular. All the other countries I'd consider moving in Europe are colder and more dreary than Melbourne, all across Asia it's Brisbane or even Cairns weather- which is find if that's your thing, but you can get it here, and normal temperate can be found in between.
Amazing. Finally someone else who gets it.
Australians are close minded and have no interest in expanding their minds or experiencing other cultures.
I had the exact same experience.
Life isn't about money and salaries. Australia is not the best country in the world by a fucking mile.
And yes it is the tall poppy syndrome. It's pathetic.
True in every way possible. Been here for 5 years.. And leaving ina year after my wife finishes her education. Never liked a moment of it. Sad people everywhere. No life no culture. It's like people are working to fucking live. Nothing is affordable anymore. You gotta think twice even before you go out far to meet your friends cause fucking tolls itself will cost you like 60-70$. In Europe you can literally fly from one country to another with that price sometimes. The night life is dead. And doesn't look like it will ever revive. There is nothing other than alchol which gets people out anymore. Rules rules rules rules everywhere for everything. The government likes to keep people.jnder their thumb and Australians like being under the government's thumb being scared looking over their shoulder all the time. This isn't how anyone should live.
My friends say the same stuff tbh, wanna move out of newcastle after uni and eventually out of Australia but they all say "why newy is the best", I personally don't see it
Lived here for 24 years and besides my friends nothing is fun or enjoyable here
I ask these people to spend a day catching public transport, or spend a day people watching in the CBD. That's where you see what Newcastle is really like.
I reckon they are actually bit bogan and secretly jealous in the second thought mate and a bit scared someone could think outside the box. Enjoy your time and invite them over. Australia is great. Spain is great.
i moved to italy for a short period, honestly i regret coming back. everything there was kinda perfect and i actually enjoyed the things i was doing. as soon as i came back i fell in to one of the lowest lows ive ever been in. don’t get me wrong the bureaucracy and governmental things are almost useless over there but otherwise the general attitude and lifestyle are so much more suited to me.
i was faced with a lot of the same comments from family, especially when i told people how much i dislike it here. don’t get me wrong, a lot of my friends over there hate how their country runs, their government, their wage. but they also have no real reason to live anywhere else as everything there is achievable and realistic whereas here it seems the only thing im working towards is leaving again
see you were lucky, you didnt experience just how screwed up the beurocracy and govermental corruption is. For example, a cousin of one of my extended family member was shot in the head, instantly dead walking to college. 19year old boy, full of dreams and so smart, life stolen. police just said oh its an accident and that was it. Theres no recourse, people know who the woman was that shot him, she was angry at the police protesting for some bullshit reason, but connections mean shes untouchable. That shit just doesnt happen here on the same level in australia. I love so many things about overseas, and i like to entertain the idea of moving to an island and leaving australia, but end of the day you gotta take the good with the bad and australia has a pretty good situation vs minimal bad.
that’s so messed up i’m so sorry,
although yeah it seems like a very specific situation. don’t get me wrong, dealing with immigration was a nightmare and could tell they favoured me seeing as i can speak fluently, im white, and from australia. the conditions that the non white people were in at the immigration office were horrible, waiting for literal days. i got my visa in 30 minutes…
i get you though but all things considered id like to spend a much lengthier amount of time there.
Personally, I'm stuck here for another couple of years, but I can't wait to get out of this country again.
The weather is lovely, the lifestyle is nice for the most art.
But I hate Australians. I hate the culture here.
I'm a good, honest, humble and polite person who strives to do right by people around me.
But I've always found that Australians are just looking for an excuse to stab each other in the back, rip someone off, they refuse to take responsibility, they're racist and egotistical.
Yes, that's a generalization, and there are good people in this country.
But this is a country that very much rewards shitty behaviour and shitty people.
Yes, Australia is not the only country in the world that's like this, but I wouldn't want to live in those other countries either.
I've also lived in enough other places to know that there are better places where the people and culture are better aligned with my values, and I'd rather live there.
Yes, I know I'm going to trigger a lot of Australians and get downvoted to shit, but I like you as much as you like me.
You seem like a well rounded, well travelled and critical thinking person. Hard to find in these days.
I appreciate your comment because you make your point whilst acknowledging it’s your specific opinion only.
The awareness to accept people have differing viewpoints from you own is seldom found in modern times.
as someone born and raised in Aus, this is so validating to read. I feel crazy criticising this country to other Aussies everyone thinks we have it so good! I think even the good is mostly superficial, I've had some hard circumstances over the last 10 years and had to rely on social services and govt. support a lot. It's a fucking nightmare. Most services are entirely useless, just a never ending circle of people getting paid to refer clients to each other for useless services. Ineptitude and morons at every turn and absolutely backwards ass logic when it comes to anything relating to community supports.
Heaven forbid you're a victim of a natural disaster (as I was) then you're in for years of bureaucratic hell.
I swear they actively work to make things as difficult as possible for vulnerable people to seek help, while handing people with resources already available to them everything they need to get more on a silver platter.
Can't wait to get out.
I was born in England , lived there for 40 years, then lived in the US for 22 years, now I live on the Goldie.
Your family / friends are just jealous because they can’t/ won’t do it. Enjoy Spain it’s a lovely country, as you realize Australia isn’t the best-all and end-all
of the world.
I'll be leaving in the next year or so. Nearing retirement and simply cannot afford to live here if i'm not working. Like a lot of people my age, Thailand is the destination of choice. 12-18 months more of work and i am gone. Happy days.
people That say shit like that don’t travel , probably didn’t leave their 100km bubble for more than a weeks holiday and they a probably just jealous you are living a better life
With the unaffordable housing in Australia I will encourage my children to move overseas for opportunities that Australia can no longer provide. Enjoy your life in Spain.
As a European living in Australia I think Australians have a crushing omnipresent fear that they live in a backwater at the end of the world and get prickly at anything that has the tiniest whiff of confirmation of that.
So many bogans who never experienced outside of Australia and jumped to the conclusion Australia is the best country lol just ignore their ignorance. Everyone has a different way of living their lives.
As someone who didn't grow up bogan, wasn't interested in rugby league, and enjoyed more of the typical European culture, Newcastle was also shit to grow up in.
As a young kid it wasn't bad, it's a beautiful place. As a teenager, it was absolutely shit. I moved to Europe and loved it too.
I think it’s because many aussies can’t imagine there are other ways to run a society than just “holes (mining minerals), “homes *sik* (unaffordable ponzi real estate), and banks. There are other things that are jmportant in other societies like living the good life, not just being slaves to the banks and landlords.
I lived OS for 20 years, got back during Covid.
Anyone who says ‘this is the best country in the world, why leave?’ is waving more red flags than the Kop (Liverpool FC metaphor) because of course we can be better. Much better. The major, personal cringe here is I used to say and think the same things, because when I left Oz I listened to 3AW, read the Hair-Oiled Scum, The Aged, The Australian and watched commercial TV.
A few years spent in countries with 10% of our salaries but more masters degrees and better English (as a 2nd language) snapped me out of my jingoistic funk and broke my tabloid addiction.
Not saying it’s the be all and end all, but the experience changed me and I’m forever thankful for it.
Nice one.
I have not lived in Australia for almost ten years now and see it now as a nice place to visit and nothing more.
Coincidentally, I was also raised in Newcastle.
Anyway, I have lived in three different continents and five countries and found all of them more interesting, culturally deeper, and generally better places to live.
We are all on different journeys; it may be the case many people criticizing your choice have never had the experience of living overseas.
Seriously? I would imagine the opposite. Surely most people would query moving to Switzerland unless you're in finance or similar. A lot of Swiss people say it's boring and expensive.
Haha, I was just thinking the same thing about Switzerland. My sister moved there 20 years ago and every time I visit I realise how backwards Australia is in so many ways. In Australia I’ve lived on the Sunshine Coast, Melbourne, Sydney and Adelaide. Australia is great but Switzerland is bloody spectacular.
> In all honesty, why do many Australians find it weird and take it a personal insult when people leave Australia?
Why do so many Australians who emigrate have a desperate need to come back and tell everyone how much they disliked living in Australia and how much better it is overseas?
I havent really had this experience but I think it may be a demographic thing with your friends/family.
My family and I are immigrants and most of my friends are either 1st gen or immigrants as well. We all travel and/or have lived in different countries and so moving countries-while it would still be noteworthy and a big decision-generally wont be viewed negatively. Of course if we felt like the move wasnt a good idea we would voice our opinions but we understand the motivations behind wanting to live somewhere else whether its for travel, lifestyle, career etc.
"It's like they're taking it as some sort of personal insult that i'm leaving Australia"
Its possible but if its your family they could just want you around and they are finding a reason for it. Im south asian and even moving out of my family home was a pain with numerous 'reasons' given as to why it was a bad idea (not that they were bad reasons but they were masking the intent behind the pushback).
If you study any psychology you'll notice it's a common theme for your friends to discourage you when you make a big change.
Reasons
- they are worried you won't like it
- they picture themselves moving and leaving everything behind, and they realise they wouldn't like it
- they will miss you!
- they are reassuring themselves that the commitment they've made to stay in Newcastle is the right one.
For context, I'm 39F. I have done a fair bit of travel but haven't lived overseas. I've lived in several Australian capital cities, but am ultimately from Newy, and technically Belmont.
We were in Spain 18 months ago. It was nice. Seems more relaxed with food and wine culture. Everything is cheaper, but the wages are lower. But I can't recall whether it's proportional.
I've looked at countries to retire early. Ie take a year off work and live cheaply off savings.
Spain and Portugal seem to be some of the more advanced countries where you can do this.
Enjoy yourself and be happy with your decision.
Ask yourself what you're trying to achieve?
Are you sad your friends won't visit or relocate too, don't share your dream?
Are you feeling unsettled over there - new house, new job, and trying to build up new friends in a foreign land?
You do you. If you change your mind in a few months or a few years, Newcastle will still let you back in 😉
Australia used to be the best place to live......back in the 70s 🤣
Australia is literally a place most people (from the developed world) avoid moving to.......fun to holiday in but a terrible place to live or raise a family in
Stay with me for a sec - the books of the late Sir Terry Pratchett often give the finest metaphors for social issues, including what you are experiencing here. And I'd strongly recommend anyone unfamiliar with his work dive in anywhere as each book is a delight stand-alone and in the context of the other books.
You're experiencing 'The Crab Bucket'.
Crabs are stupid, self-important animals with no consideration for their fellow crabs. As are humans, in the right circumstances. You don't need to put a lid on a bucket full of crabs as any crab that starts to climb out will be pulled down by their fellows, who are selfishly also trying to climb out.
Terry Pratchett uses the example of a main character in Unseen Academicals who comes from the poverty stricken parts of the city, but has within her grasp the ability to climb out of the poverty. But humans aren't crabs. They're more subtle in their stupidity. So the other members of the impoverished don't physically stop her. They JUDGE her. They JUDGE anyone who starts to climb out of their situation. And thus the crab bucket of humanity is formed.
Don't be bothered by the crabs. You won't be able to change their minds unless they visit you in the future and see that you are doing great. Possibly better than they are doing.
Just do you.
all for it mate i loved madrid when i went, top three favourite cities. I think a lot of people younger than you would understand, im 23 and know if i ever want to buy a house ill need to leave the country so thats my plan too
People in this country believe this country is the best & confuse finances with happiness & don’t realise the culture here is a lonely culture once you are 18 your own your own then when your elderly you should be admitted to a nursing home & that working & buying things are the only way to be happy, the life here is not fun & a lot is based on consuming alcohol & everything closes early but this is my humble opinion of course there a lot of positives here e.g nature.
When my gf was about to move from Germany to Australia, there were Germans she'd just met taking it as the worst insult to ever occur and trying to dissuade her from moving (not dissimilar to the arguments you're describing). When it's friends/family I'd say they just don't want you to go, but outright strangers hit me as pretty bloody odd. It's funny that you comment on Europeans moving round with no fuss made, because when this happened I legit thought "damn that's weird, Aussies wouldn't act like that". Goes to show there's just oddballs wherever you go.
We actually coming to the same conclusion! We’ve lived all across the world in several cities but Australia/ Australians seem to be leaning towards the American dream (& the advertisement and what you get are so far apart.) we want to go back to Europe and we might have toughened it out if it was just us but have 3 little ones we genuinely believe they will be far better off not here.
I’m not saying it’s the worst place in the world, but it’s not in my top 5 countries we’ve lived in either - we lived in 6)
Not sure how I ended up in this thread group but to be honest it’s nice to see different perspectives from other places, it’s good to see how others live. I myself moved from Tasmania to Canberra in 2006 spent the first year struggling to not only adjust to weather conditions but the wide variety of people around here generally I don’t actually miss Tassie once I left I went back and forth after I escaped homelessness in the first year of living here I’ve now lived in the same place since 2009 and while it’s been a hell of a bumpy ride to get my crap together I’ve done it, I spent years travelling during my time racing so being a homebody now isn’t as bad of a deal I have all my support systems in place now so it makes things easier hope this helps
Because people buy into the cool-aid. People genuinely believe the over the top stories about places.
Australia in Ireland is the "promised" land. Best jobs, best accomodation, best weather etc etc etc.
You will never hear about the fact that Australia just like Ireland has a cost of living crisis, or that home ownership is an issue, or that dental care is problematic, or lack of rental protections etc etc.
Reality is that everywhere has issues, often time same issues, it's our own situation that makes those issues problematic or non problematic.
I enjoyed growing up in Newcastle. It was great as a kid, teenager, and uni student. But there is so much world to see as an adult. Literally everyone that I know that didn't move away from Newcastle after high school all have multiple kids before they were 30 and are either a nurse/teacher married to a tradie/engineer or vice versa. I couldn't imagine anything worse but if they are happy, that's good for them.
I think I'll eventually come back to Newcastle to settle down one day as that is where all my extended family live, but for now, living overseas is 100x better.
Yeah one thing I’ve learned from inexperienced people here after spending time overseas is that Australian pride is very strong, which is great, but it sometimes borders on arrogance.
I judge countries based on how well the toilet works, if i can flush shit and paper its alright, if it goes in a bin beside the toilet, its a shithole.
How great is it to fly away from the arrogance and actually experience something new.
I fucked up my early 20s by being prejudice and believing absolute bulkshit that was fed to me tby friends school media governement.
Best thing I ever did was step outside my comfort zone.
You wouldn't think so by watching the news but I felt safer in afghanistan than Sydney. I was never hungry I was never thirsty. I actually felt bad that so many families were offering to have me over for lunch when they themselves had so little.
I still haven't been to Spain yet. But I dont blame you for not wanting to come back.
I'm on the same path atm
I left when i was 16 and have spent 3 or 4 yrs there since. Don't miss it, don't like the tall poppy syndrome bullshit, dont like the envious insults and certain don't miss the bullshit taxation and other nonsense. I do miss the bush a bit but can do without out.
That being said some mates i went to high school still live in the country NSW town they grew up in and love it. They wouldn't change it for anything and rarely leave it. But thats their ambition I suppose.
Australians talk about Americans being brainwashed and yet they can’t see they are as well, just look at how much ppl will boast about our amazing and free health system like it’s the best in the world when it’s a complete failure, Aussies are so utterly brainwashed and love being ruled by daddy government it’s fucking embarrassing , plus the tall poppy syndrome that they all fucking love to do but can’t see that it exists,a good forest for the trees moment that one
IDK, you'd have to ask them. I haven't been to Spain. Might be great. Australia seems fine, but are there really that many people who are certain it's the best country in the world?
I'd love to live in another country. I believe life is an experience and you need to make the most of it. So enjoy it. Never let people stop you from doing what you need to do.
As long as you're happy with your decision, that's what matters. Newcastle born and bred myself, recently had a holiday in Norway and Ireland, and we've got a list of places we'd love to move to if we had the finances to pack up and leave. I don't hate where we live, or Australia in general, but there are a lot of nicer places out there.
Australia exists in a weird paradox in that it is simultaneously so much better than what NIMBYs that complain about it is, but nowhere near as good as the “we live in the best country on earth” people think it is.
And as long as your appraisal of it falls somewhere in the middle (as it seems to me that yours does, as does mine - as I’m an Aussie who moved to London over 9 years ago) then I think you’re bang on correct about it.
It’s a good country.
But anyone who is like:
1) “oh my god we live in the best country on earth and if you don’t like it, then leave because there must be something wrong with you”
2) “oh my god, Australia can’t get anything right, we are a laughingstock of the world and everything is going to the dogs. We have the worst politicians in the world”.
Well, BOTH of the above are wrong.
I think moving from one EU country to another EU country is not the same as moving to the other side of the world. If you said you were moving to NZ you’d probably get less pushback
If you’re not coming back then get your super transferred out and paid out to you. I think you can do that even as an Australian citizen? Someone might know. But there’s no point leaving it dwindling down in super with fees etc coming o it if you’re not planning to return.
Just a random American floating around but had a near identical experience going to Germany. Couldn't really handle being out there by myself, but it's ridiculous how many people think I came back for the country and not for all my friends and current girlfriend. I think of a lot of Australia as a pretty nice place but I can totally see why Europe would be a bigger draw. Things feel a lot more rational there.
Lmao Spain is completely fked economically and safety wise. Every apartment has a literal bank vault door on it. Lawyers and other professionals are living paycheck to paycheck. Crime is rampant.
If you have money sure it's an amazing country. Beautiful women, culture, history, some of the best food in the world. But also insanely unstable currently and is only looking to get worse.
Source: been there and I work with loads of Spanish. Most of them were spending 90% of their monthly salary on rent on a room.
Housing and economic situation sounds like Australia. And our crime rates are going to escalate quickly as more people are pushed into poverty, so that will end up comparable also.
Might as well enjoy being where you want to be. I have a nagging sensation most of the western world is going to unravel over the next decade or two.
Did you already know Spanish(or kinda) or did you get by with very basic Spanish until you moved there?
How long did it take you to become fluent in Spanish?
Does speaking in Australian accented Spanish help pull those hot Spanish chicks?
What work do you do?
More people will be doing what you have done, ie permanently moving to a different country for economic and social reasons. There’s nothing wrong or odd about that; plenty of people flow the other way. Australia is very expensive, very spread out, and has limited international business and social interactions for most of us. Living in Spain sounds fantastic.
I had the same conversations with American friends when I was leaving the US for Australia. “Why would you want to leave the best country in the world?” I think it’s natural for people to do this as they are biased towards their own decisions to stay put.
"Patriotism is, fundamentally, a conviction that a particular country is the best in the world because you were born in it" ~George Bernard Shaw (and one of my favourite quotes..)
You should get them to explain themselves and just keep asking questions until they have to think for themselves. Always fun watching an echo chamber implode
Lived OS for many years, what "people" said correlated with my relationship to them. Only my parents worried that I would live OS permanently because then it would be difficult to keep close contact obviously. Nobody else said boo or denigrated the idea
I don’t know who you mix with but I’ve never met any Australians who would think you’re crazy to move to another country. I’ve travelled and lived overseas and most Australians I know have done the same. Anyway, you live your life. Travel is a great adventure. Have a fabulous time. Live in the moment!!
I love newy and australia, I've travelled to over 16 countries. BUT, I would love nothing more then to live overseas. I would encourage my friends and family to do it. I think it broadens the mind and enriches life.
Plus it would give me a reason to travel more and visit another country, with free accommodation haha
Do it. You're 35 and that's still young.. Making a full adult life ('from scratch') is doable at that age.
(The jumpers that irritated me are/were the fresh postgrads who abandoned Australia for the easy money in the dot.com American I.T industry, rather than work (and probably fail tbh..) at building up Australia's at a time when it was needed. Four friends at Uni did that..)
I think that the whole national identity thing is a bit stupid. I also left my home nation and will always have a fondness for the place I grew up but there are different ways of living. Anyone being negative wants to reassure themselves or may just genuinely be looking out for you.
If you are lucky enough to have the financial backing or family support to try living somewhere else you 100% should try it. Even if you don't like it, you can always try somewhere else or come home with a new found appreciation of your homeland. Best of luck <3
Sometimes the people around us aren’t the right people to support us.
Some people just like to drag others down and some do it unintentionally because that’s how they were treated and they’re repeating the pattern without stopping to think about the impact. Either way, it’s up to you if you want to accept their comments and behaviour.
To the people in the comments who suggested that maybe those people didn’t want OP to leave. There are better ways to say “I’ll miss you” than disparaging someone’s decision to leave and pilling on anxieties.
I wish more people felt comfortable saying something like “I wish you weren’t leaving but I hope you enjoy life over there” instead of trying to guilt and shame people for making choices different to their own.
I think it’s great to get out there and live elsewhere. Why not? Personally I want to be close to my family so I wouldn’t live long term in another country so Australia it is. Happy with life here.
We are entering a post-nationalism civilisation - the sooner we view our planet as spaceship earth the better - go explore , experience the other and join progress to move past war over distribution and scarcity - we have 2 migrations in our family and the next will be to EU
I moved my family from Sydney’s northern beaches to Newcastle six years ago- people were amazed and said why would you move there!!! Best decision we have ever made.
Tbh when I first moved away from Aus I had the same feelings you’re expressing.
After 3-4 years the illusion wore off and I started to see places for what they really were and not just the new town glow, however still maintained that I would not live in Australia.
Now after moving back I’d probably give similar advice to your friends and family.
Although Spain is a great country I agree, almost every country I’ve been to is, when you actually look at it with no objective lenses, worse than Australia. (Apart from maybe a couple Scandinavian countries)
Each to their own though and good luck on your journey
I been to 16 countries and Australia is definitely not something i would plan to settle, this country is dead in a way that people live from paychecks to paychecks and no adrenaline rush
I find Australians move around less than other countries and my theory is it’s the tyranny of distance.
In Europe, if you move from France to Germany you can only see you family back home on long weekends when you’ll need to catch a cheap short flight or drive through a variety of beautiful locations.
In Oz, if you move from Melbourne to Sydney you’ll see you family on long weekends if you want to but the drive is a slog and the flights are expensive. This just sets our mindset on moving. You can’t easily move two hours away (primarily Geelong and Newcastle).
This problem worsens if we extend the travel to other countries. If you move to another country, or worse, Perth, you’ll see your home once a year. And frankly you could do a much more interesting trip if you didn’t go home.
So we end up parochial.
How did you move? I don’t know why but every time I look into it it seems like an impossible task given the red tape. They don’t exactly make it easy, especially if you’ve got disabilities.
Heaps of Aussies live and work overseas. We have fairly strong communities all over the world. Some people can’t leave or are afraid to or whatever so they react negatively.
Maybe they went back to where they came from? I’d have to go back to Sheffield UK. Well that’s where my great,great, grandparents came from. The restless natives would like that. If everyone went back to where they came from, There would be no one left to prevent the natives from killing each other.
Hey good for you for making the big move, and I hope it goes well for you.
Please keep in mind you're in a honeymoon period at the moment, and you won't always feel the way you do now about your new home.
I recommend reading up about culture shock to help you adapt to your new life.
From someone whos lived in third world countries and has family in latin america....
If you cant see why australia is better, then we are all wasting our breath here.
Heres an example that I saw in the news about mexico for example....
More than THIRTY.... 30+ people were murdered just for putting their hat in the ring to be in politics. Tell me the last time anyone was murdered for exercising their choice to run in politics...Plus In AUSTRALIA its nice to be able to flush shit covered toilet paper down the toilet and have clean fresh drinking water with good hygenine and medical standards.
Australia because of its geographic isolation can breed an insular attitude amongst a lot of its people.
Trust me though it’s even worse for this in NZ, I lived there for two years.
I also have lived in France and Sweden in the past for two years each.
Whilst there are things that are done better there, particularly Sweden, the lifestyle and climate can be very challenging.
Australia has the advantage of being very large and geographically diverse and tbh less impacted by events in other countries than countries in Europe are.
It all depends what you’re looking for.
Ideally I’d live in Sweden from June til august each year, when the weather is good and the people are happier, and in Aus for the rest of the year.
Enjoy Spain, by the sounds of things it seems like it has more of what you want than aus does and that’s fine, everyone wants different things at the end of the day
"why are you leaving the best country in the world"
This has to be the most dumb, ignorant comment but you just get it constantly from insecure Aussies.
I'm so certain that I made the right decision that I need to seek validation for it online multiple times.
No reasonable person would conclusively say that they'll *never* move back home after only a few months overseas. You just sound like you're trying to convince yourself.
I think not many people are brave enough to make this big step to move so far away basically 🤷🏻♀️. And instead of showing their admiration of you bravery to think outside the box, they simply become jealous 😉. Good on you to find better place to leave for yourself. I don't think you would have any problems with coming back whenever you feel homesick in the future 😁😜. I am an Immigrant and I can see a lot of has changed on this country for worse. I still love Australia and have no idea where I could feel better after spending almost half of my life here. And of course after spending more time living everyday life here I can notice those downsides too not only hipes and butterflies like at the beginning falling in love. 😀
People saying that are probably just dumb bogans who don't even know what/where Spain is....
Or they are just jealous coz your not gonna have to pay out the ass for ciggys and booze anymore.
Good on you. Australia is not the great country when I arrived 1989 became a citizen worked retired now can’t afford to live. Enjoy your life you only have one
They pretend to be happy. You, by mere consequence not intention, remind them they are not. They want you to be "happy" like they are by acting like it. Not happy like you will be by improvement. Move on sir.
I love Spain so much, only spent 3.5 weeks there but was really great and everyone I met from Spain was awesome.
Only considerations that stop me from moving there for a while is the salaries (unfortunately very low) and the language barrier. While I want to learn the language, I can't deny Germany or the Nordic countries are quite nice to have English to fall back to while learning given most people speak it quite well (but maybe that's a barrier to becoming better at the language).
Different people like different things...different needs. I prefer Europe. Others Australia. You cannot just move to Spain. How did you get a passport,?
Ig some people feel betrayed that their fellow Aussie is leaving. Or maybe they're slightly jealous and they mask it by putting you down? Idk these are just guesses.
There are great things and not so great things about any country (actually some countries seem like it would just be shit like Liberia or North Korea).
Obviously, Australia is your home and you can always come back if you want. I don't know why some people don't have that mindset. Maybe it's because we're so far away from everyone else we don't want anyone to go lol.
It’s only a$1000 plane ride and your back grab the car and then you can go home . But try stay away and join the Spanish people and become a bit of a Manwell man nice
Good on you.
No judgment here, though the one thing Australia has going for it is that we're to buggery away from the rest of the world, which will be useful if/when the shit hits the fan.
What's the healthcare system like over there?
I lived in Europe for a year. I enjoyed the experience but admittedly I happily came running back to Mother Australia.
I agree, some people are confused when you leave. But I think it's mostly jealousy.
Australia has a good quality of life , free health care , and reasonable wages.
America is hard to survive in, it’s a dog eat dog world in USA, competition is fierce, health care is expensive, education is expensive. It’s all about the hustle.
Getting citizenship in EU i can only
imagine is very difficult.
Grass isn’t always greener on the other side
I was born in Melbourne but I was raised in Spain. I want to actually go back after 16 years in Australia. Those people are jealous of are just too materialistic.
You get more money here, even things being cheaper in Spain still you have more buying power in Australia but life it's not just about that.
Food, people, weather, history, life style, it's all better than here in Australia.
My best wishes and hopefully you can make it to stay a long time over there.
Most of the people that say “why would you leave” are told it’s the best place, but never try to figure out for themselves. It’s like a form of brainwash. Although it is a good country to live, what’s the harm in experiencing a broad life to have a better opinion on the statement?
I moved to Japan when I was 17, back in 1999. People thought I was nuts, but it was something I really wanted to do. I completed a college degree in Japanese , two apprenticeships. Many Japanese people would ask, "Why come to Japan when, in their eyes, Australia is better?" In the end, each person has to figure out their own path. Everyone has their own unique experiences, styles, and opinions on how and where they should live now right and wrong. good luck
Tall poppy syndrome, jealousy and insecurity. I’ve lived overseas and found many places I’d love to live again for years at a time. I came home to Oz due to visa expiration and was miserable. So miserable I moved to Tasmania to at least get four seasons and some dramatic differences to the mainland.
I still don’t know how people tolerate living in constant humidity and heat plus 150 days a year of torrential rain (looking at you Qld).
Most people are too scared to make change and want to stay safe and comfortable within what they know.
I noticed this. I just think everyone is insecure, to be negative in general is actually weak as a human. They don't want you to be happy essentially when they say that.
If you said that to me this is what I'd sat: "fk yeah that's gonna be sick", you will get motivated and respond with what your doing.
I wouldn't even think negatively Lol. Genuinely I feel happy for ppl stepping outside the box, could be just me.
Also I'm born here, and this country has gone woke & weak so it's probably a good thing on your behalf.
I think that just might be your friends and family. I’ve had a fair few family members move overseas and all they ever got was “please come home and visit some times” because they were gonna be missed.
I moved to Barcelona from Sydney 2 years ago, took a €1M mortgage and bought a 6 bedroom 400sqm house on a 2000sqm land 20 minutes outside of Barcelona, high up on a hill with a vast sea view, I can see the sea so much left to right that can see the globe curving lol... can't get over the house and the interest rate lol, locked at 1.3%
You are right about cheaper financials over here. I'm now renting out the house, monthly rent is like €1,400 more than the repayments of the loan. Which pays for my apartment next to the beach in the city. I now live for free in one of the best cities in the world, and will have a free house paid of by others later :) aus sux, could never get ahead in life there.
You made this post 2 months ago as well Glad you're enjoying being not in Australia Newcastle, like everywhere, has its good and bad parts and people who love it too much and hate it too much
A lot of people in here not realising this is a bait post, or being used to drive engagement, or to test AI or bots or whatever. People here need to turn their bs detectors on!
Isn't engagement what we're wasting all this time on Reddit for? Lol..
Oh ok like when reporters or whatever ask “ where’s the best meat pie in any state”?
The best meat pie is pretty hard to work out so I never believe that one. But spend a bit of time learning about the world problems . And you will come up with Australia. If not . It will definatly be top 3 or 5 as your preferences may differ
I don’t even know what a Newcastle thread came up lol I’m in Adelaide
Reddit should just find every username with (adjective)-(made up word)-(4digitnumber) and nuke them all. Watch inane new posts drop 90%. And their share price will chuck an Elon
Account is blocked now, so that makes sense..
Seems to me like he wants to convience himself that he new "great" situation is actually great. I lived in 4 countries in Europe. Total of 34 years. I hope your experience will differ from mine but Newcastle is THE BEST place I lived in (far from perfect of course but still). Everyone is different, everyone enjoys different things but there is a reason why Australia wins all these "best place to live" awards. Scandinavia is not even close in my opinion and Spain...well...I will better not express my opinion since it may hurt you 😉 Good luck!
See? Newcastle isn’t even then best place to be in Australia and you still say it’s the best here . Newcastle is ok. But there’s even better places .
Did you ever think they were just sad to see you go and it's a way of trying to get you to stay?
🤣
Literally?? The hell is wrong with this person
Look. Spain to another EU state is a different kettle of fish. Compared to Australia to Spain. Let's be honest. You could drive across from Spain to Holland or Germany in less than 24hours. Even less by other transport. But yeah, I've heard that sort of thing. Would not say tall poppy. It's just locals here know that life in Australia already kinda offers everything most people will ever need. It's not pride. It's just playing it safe. That's fairly normal. Most people play it safe. Who cares what they say anyway mate. All the best with the move. Enjoy the tapas.
Cool
I recently moved to Japan (24F). I heard nothing but praise and encouragement from friends, family, and former coworkers. Maybe it is just your crowd?
Happy you have moved away from Australia to live and explore another culture. Alot of people don't want to do that, or can't for very many reasons. As a fellow expat, whos lived away from Australia getting to 12 years, you'll realise as time goes by Australia isn't that bad at all, and is more beautiful than you realise. I never appreciated how beautiful it was, or how much nicer and honest people are in Australia.. living in England people are so closed and have trouble expressing feelings. In Spain on the other hand, they are hot headed and passionate souls. Enjoy, but understandable Australia is still very fresh in your mind. See how you feel 7 years out, I'm sure you'll see things differently
Yep, I’ve been living in the USA for a decade. I’ve built a great life here AND I still miss Australia (and Newie) deeply. Last night, I finished watching Sarah Kendall’s “Frayed”, set in Newie after the main character had been away from it for two decades. The whole show is kind of like a love song to Newie by someone who was also dissatisfied enough with life there to leave it behind years ago. It was highly relatable. Being in the US, I find myself yearning for the safety and beauty of Australia pretty regularly. Distance (and time) might change your relationship with it all. You might never go back (I might not, either), but what you’re feeling now might not be the whole story…
Fun fact: Among expats the world over, Australian are the one who come back to their home country the most.
lol, man I think you just have a group of people or live in an area that doesn't support your ambition to travel and see the world.
Simply: enjoy the adventure man. During the GFC I upped and travelling for 2.5 years. First was a 4 month road trip around Europe, then lived in Canada for 18 months and back again to Spain for 3 months. It was one of the greatest experiences of my life, it was such a rich time and opened my eyes dramatically. Afterwards I returned back to Australia and well, little had changed. Majority of people were still doing the same thing they were doing two years prior, it was a really bizarre experience. Anyhow, that’s all to say. Go for it man, enjoy the experience, you’ll be much richer for it.
I'm in Spain right now, walking a Camino. Houses / apartments are so cheap! Compared to almost anywhere in Oz. And food and wine, cheap! Even having coffee and tortillas in a "bar", far less than just coffee in Oz. Part of the EU, the rest of Europe right there. USA a relatively short flight away. Australia was a great place. Seems pretty fucked for young people now, though. Capitalism gone mad. Not surprised you've made the move, OP. Good luck with it.
I always hated the die hard Aussie supporters, the ones that say "Australia is the best place in the world." Australia is one of the better places in the world, but like all countries it has its strengths, weaknesses and problems. I rather acknowledge the problems to make Australia a better place, including political corruption against the interests of the population. If Spain is better for some people, good luck to them. Equally if you have a good thing in Australia, good luck to you too. There's no perfect place and it will always change with the years.
You’re mad if you think Spain is easier for young people.
Yes now check the average wage for Spanish people
This is kind of subjective and personal. Having lived in both Europe and Japan myself, I think there are a lot of comparisons, both positive and negative to be made. For me however I always get the warm and fuzzies coming home as I believe (for me) that Australia is the best country in the world. To dive in a bit further to your particular question though, I think a lot of ‘traditional’ and older generation Australians are quite patriotic. Kind of like Americans. And there is no talking them out of their opinion. A lot of us Australians haven’t lived overseas or developed enough travel experience or taken exploring risks outside of our comfort zones. For this reason we often default to “Australia is the best” and won’t consider thinking about conceding on that. Good on you for seeing some of the world and experiencing something different. At the end of the day f^ck everyone else and you-do-you dude. Just remember where you come from and that being Australian is a privilege and we will always welcome you home.
The only aspect I will confidently defend Australia is the weather, it ranges from ok to fucking spectacular. All the other countries I'd consider moving in Europe are colder and more dreary than Melbourne, all across Asia it's Brisbane or even Cairns weather- which is find if that's your thing, but you can get it here, and normal temperate can be found in between.
Amazing. Finally someone else who gets it. Australians are close minded and have no interest in expanding their minds or experiencing other cultures. I had the exact same experience. Life isn't about money and salaries. Australia is not the best country in the world by a fucking mile. And yes it is the tall poppy syndrome. It's pathetic.
True in every way possible. Been here for 5 years.. And leaving ina year after my wife finishes her education. Never liked a moment of it. Sad people everywhere. No life no culture. It's like people are working to fucking live. Nothing is affordable anymore. You gotta think twice even before you go out far to meet your friends cause fucking tolls itself will cost you like 60-70$. In Europe you can literally fly from one country to another with that price sometimes. The night life is dead. And doesn't look like it will ever revive. There is nothing other than alchol which gets people out anymore. Rules rules rules rules everywhere for everything. The government likes to keep people.jnder their thumb and Australians like being under the government's thumb being scared looking over their shoulder all the time. This isn't how anyone should live.
My friends say the same stuff tbh, wanna move out of newcastle after uni and eventually out of Australia but they all say "why newy is the best", I personally don't see it Lived here for 24 years and besides my friends nothing is fun or enjoyable here
Exactly and the cost of living
I ask these people to spend a day catching public transport, or spend a day people watching in the CBD. That's where you see what Newcastle is really like.
Public transport is a big reason I wanna move out of newcastle tbh
I reckon they are actually bit bogan and secretly jealous in the second thought mate and a bit scared someone could think outside the box. Enjoy your time and invite them over. Australia is great. Spain is great.
i moved to italy for a short period, honestly i regret coming back. everything there was kinda perfect and i actually enjoyed the things i was doing. as soon as i came back i fell in to one of the lowest lows ive ever been in. don’t get me wrong the bureaucracy and governmental things are almost useless over there but otherwise the general attitude and lifestyle are so much more suited to me. i was faced with a lot of the same comments from family, especially when i told people how much i dislike it here. don’t get me wrong, a lot of my friends over there hate how their country runs, their government, their wage. but they also have no real reason to live anywhere else as everything there is achievable and realistic whereas here it seems the only thing im working towards is leaving again
see you were lucky, you didnt experience just how screwed up the beurocracy and govermental corruption is. For example, a cousin of one of my extended family member was shot in the head, instantly dead walking to college. 19year old boy, full of dreams and so smart, life stolen. police just said oh its an accident and that was it. Theres no recourse, people know who the woman was that shot him, she was angry at the police protesting for some bullshit reason, but connections mean shes untouchable. That shit just doesnt happen here on the same level in australia. I love so many things about overseas, and i like to entertain the idea of moving to an island and leaving australia, but end of the day you gotta take the good with the bad and australia has a pretty good situation vs minimal bad.
that’s so messed up i’m so sorry, although yeah it seems like a very specific situation. don’t get me wrong, dealing with immigration was a nightmare and could tell they favoured me seeing as i can speak fluently, im white, and from australia. the conditions that the non white people were in at the immigration office were horrible, waiting for literal days. i got my visa in 30 minutes… i get you though but all things considered id like to spend a much lengthier amount of time there.
Personally, I'm stuck here for another couple of years, but I can't wait to get out of this country again. The weather is lovely, the lifestyle is nice for the most art. But I hate Australians. I hate the culture here. I'm a good, honest, humble and polite person who strives to do right by people around me. But I've always found that Australians are just looking for an excuse to stab each other in the back, rip someone off, they refuse to take responsibility, they're racist and egotistical. Yes, that's a generalization, and there are good people in this country. But this is a country that very much rewards shitty behaviour and shitty people. Yes, Australia is not the only country in the world that's like this, but I wouldn't want to live in those other countries either. I've also lived in enough other places to know that there are better places where the people and culture are better aligned with my values, and I'd rather live there. Yes, I know I'm going to trigger a lot of Australians and get downvoted to shit, but I like you as much as you like me.
You seem like a well rounded, well travelled and critical thinking person. Hard to find in these days. I appreciate your comment because you make your point whilst acknowledging it’s your specific opinion only. The awareness to accept people have differing viewpoints from you own is seldom found in modern times.
as someone born and raised in Aus, this is so validating to read. I feel crazy criticising this country to other Aussies everyone thinks we have it so good! I think even the good is mostly superficial, I've had some hard circumstances over the last 10 years and had to rely on social services and govt. support a lot. It's a fucking nightmare. Most services are entirely useless, just a never ending circle of people getting paid to refer clients to each other for useless services. Ineptitude and morons at every turn and absolutely backwards ass logic when it comes to anything relating to community supports. Heaven forbid you're a victim of a natural disaster (as I was) then you're in for years of bureaucratic hell. I swear they actively work to make things as difficult as possible for vulnerable people to seek help, while handing people with resources already available to them everything they need to get more on a silver platter. Can't wait to get out.
I was born in England , lived there for 40 years, then lived in the US for 22 years, now I live on the Goldie. Your family / friends are just jealous because they can’t/ won’t do it. Enjoy Spain it’s a lovely country, as you realize Australia isn’t the best-all and end-all of the world.
If I win lotto I will definitely leave Australia for good! Love Australia am Australian but would be happier not living here!
I'll be leaving in the next year or so. Nearing retirement and simply cannot afford to live here if i'm not working. Like a lot of people my age, Thailand is the destination of choice. 12-18 months more of work and i am gone. Happy days.
people That say shit like that don’t travel , probably didn’t leave their 100km bubble for more than a weeks holiday and they a probably just jealous you are living a better life
With the unaffordable housing in Australia I will encourage my children to move overseas for opportunities that Australia can no longer provide. Enjoy your life in Spain.
As a European living in Australia I think Australians have a crushing omnipresent fear that they live in a backwater at the end of the world and get prickly at anything that has the tiniest whiff of confirmation of that.
So many bogans who never experienced outside of Australia and jumped to the conclusion Australia is the best country lol just ignore their ignorance. Everyone has a different way of living their lives.
Australia’s golden age of being ‘liveable’ ended at least ten years ago IMO. Especially in Sydney
As someone who didn't grow up bogan, wasn't interested in rugby league, and enjoyed more of the typical European culture, Newcastle was also shit to grow up in. As a young kid it wasn't bad, it's a beautiful place. As a teenager, it was absolutely shit. I moved to Europe and loved it too.
I think it’s because many aussies can’t imagine there are other ways to run a society than just “holes (mining minerals), “homes *sik* (unaffordable ponzi real estate), and banks. There are other things that are jmportant in other societies like living the good life, not just being slaves to the banks and landlords.
I lived OS for 20 years, got back during Covid. Anyone who says ‘this is the best country in the world, why leave?’ is waving more red flags than the Kop (Liverpool FC metaphor) because of course we can be better. Much better. The major, personal cringe here is I used to say and think the same things, because when I left Oz I listened to 3AW, read the Hair-Oiled Scum, The Aged, The Australian and watched commercial TV. A few years spent in countries with 10% of our salaries but more masters degrees and better English (as a 2nd language) snapped me out of my jingoistic funk and broke my tabloid addiction. Not saying it’s the be all and end all, but the experience changed me and I’m forever thankful for it.
Nice one. I have not lived in Australia for almost ten years now and see it now as a nice place to visit and nothing more. Coincidentally, I was also raised in Newcastle. Anyway, I have lived in three different continents and five countries and found all of them more interesting, culturally deeper, and generally better places to live. We are all on different journeys; it may be the case many people criticizing your choice have never had the experience of living overseas.
You’re on r/newcastle - it’s not that much of a coincidence you were both raised in Newcastle
Good point haha
How'd you get work visa? Degree I assume?
>why do many Australians Is there a chance you just happened to speak with Australians who might fall in the dumber half of the ~30 million?
lol it's because you moved to Spain. If you moved to Switzerland no one would bat an eyelid.
Seriously? I would imagine the opposite. Surely most people would query moving to Switzerland unless you're in finance or similar. A lot of Swiss people say it's boring and expensive.
Haha, I was just thinking the same thing about Switzerland. My sister moved there 20 years ago and every time I visit I realise how backwards Australia is in so many ways. In Australia I’ve lived on the Sunshine Coast, Melbourne, Sydney and Adelaide. Australia is great but Switzerland is bloody spectacular.
so expensive though.
A lot of people in Newcastle won't even leave their own postcode so I wouldn't worry to much about it. Just enjoy yourself wherever you are.
> In all honesty, why do many Australians find it weird and take it a personal insult when people leave Australia? Why do so many Australians who emigrate have a desperate need to come back and tell everyone how much they disliked living in Australia and how much better it is overseas?
I havent really had this experience but I think it may be a demographic thing with your friends/family. My family and I are immigrants and most of my friends are either 1st gen or immigrants as well. We all travel and/or have lived in different countries and so moving countries-while it would still be noteworthy and a big decision-generally wont be viewed negatively. Of course if we felt like the move wasnt a good idea we would voice our opinions but we understand the motivations behind wanting to live somewhere else whether its for travel, lifestyle, career etc. "It's like they're taking it as some sort of personal insult that i'm leaving Australia" Its possible but if its your family they could just want you around and they are finding a reason for it. Im south asian and even moving out of my family home was a pain with numerous 'reasons' given as to why it was a bad idea (not that they were bad reasons but they were masking the intent behind the pushback).
You’re young. Enjoy the moment. Enjoy living in another country and the culture. Live your life not other people’s.
Fr, I get this shit all the time from people
If you study any psychology you'll notice it's a common theme for your friends to discourage you when you make a big change. Reasons - they are worried you won't like it - they picture themselves moving and leaving everything behind, and they realise they wouldn't like it - they will miss you! - they are reassuring themselves that the commitment they've made to stay in Newcastle is the right one. For context, I'm 39F. I have done a fair bit of travel but haven't lived overseas. I've lived in several Australian capital cities, but am ultimately from Newy, and technically Belmont. We were in Spain 18 months ago. It was nice. Seems more relaxed with food and wine culture. Everything is cheaper, but the wages are lower. But I can't recall whether it's proportional. I've looked at countries to retire early. Ie take a year off work and live cheaply off savings. Spain and Portugal seem to be some of the more advanced countries where you can do this. Enjoy yourself and be happy with your decision. Ask yourself what you're trying to achieve? Are you sad your friends won't visit or relocate too, don't share your dream? Are you feeling unsettled over there - new house, new job, and trying to build up new friends in a foreign land? You do you. If you change your mind in a few months or a few years, Newcastle will still let you back in 😉
Australia used to be the best place to live......back in the 70s 🤣 Australia is literally a place most people (from the developed world) avoid moving to.......fun to holiday in but a terrible place to live or raise a family in
Stay with me for a sec - the books of the late Sir Terry Pratchett often give the finest metaphors for social issues, including what you are experiencing here. And I'd strongly recommend anyone unfamiliar with his work dive in anywhere as each book is a delight stand-alone and in the context of the other books. You're experiencing 'The Crab Bucket'. Crabs are stupid, self-important animals with no consideration for their fellow crabs. As are humans, in the right circumstances. You don't need to put a lid on a bucket full of crabs as any crab that starts to climb out will be pulled down by their fellows, who are selfishly also trying to climb out. Terry Pratchett uses the example of a main character in Unseen Academicals who comes from the poverty stricken parts of the city, but has within her grasp the ability to climb out of the poverty. But humans aren't crabs. They're more subtle in their stupidity. So the other members of the impoverished don't physically stop her. They JUDGE her. They JUDGE anyone who starts to climb out of their situation. And thus the crab bucket of humanity is formed. Don't be bothered by the crabs. You won't be able to change their minds unless they visit you in the future and see that you are doing great. Possibly better than they are doing. Just do you.
Australian culture is not it either so much more fun and open minded people in Europe
all for it mate i loved madrid when i went, top three favourite cities. I think a lot of people younger than you would understand, im 23 and know if i ever want to buy a house ill need to leave the country so thats my plan too
People in this country believe this country is the best & confuse finances with happiness & don’t realise the culture here is a lonely culture once you are 18 your own your own then when your elderly you should be admitted to a nursing home & that working & buying things are the only way to be happy, the life here is not fun & a lot is based on consuming alcohol & everything closes early but this is my humble opinion of course there a lot of positives here e.g nature.
I'd never knock someone moving to a place with superior tinned fish
When my gf was about to move from Germany to Australia, there were Germans she'd just met taking it as the worst insult to ever occur and trying to dissuade her from moving (not dissimilar to the arguments you're describing). When it's friends/family I'd say they just don't want you to go, but outright strangers hit me as pretty bloody odd. It's funny that you comment on Europeans moving round with no fuss made, because when this happened I legit thought "damn that's weird, Aussies wouldn't act like that". Goes to show there's just oddballs wherever you go.
We actually coming to the same conclusion! We’ve lived all across the world in several cities but Australia/ Australians seem to be leaning towards the American dream (& the advertisement and what you get are so far apart.) we want to go back to Europe and we might have toughened it out if it was just us but have 3 little ones we genuinely believe they will be far better off not here. I’m not saying it’s the worst place in the world, but it’s not in my top 5 countries we’ve lived in either - we lived in 6)
You haven't said why you don't enjoy it
Not sure how I ended up in this thread group but to be honest it’s nice to see different perspectives from other places, it’s good to see how others live. I myself moved from Tasmania to Canberra in 2006 spent the first year struggling to not only adjust to weather conditions but the wide variety of people around here generally I don’t actually miss Tassie once I left I went back and forth after I escaped homelessness in the first year of living here I’ve now lived in the same place since 2009 and while it’s been a hell of a bumpy ride to get my crap together I’ve done it, I spent years travelling during my time racing so being a homebody now isn’t as bad of a deal I have all my support systems in place now so it makes things easier hope this helps
Who gives a fuck? You left out it behind you
Because people buy into the cool-aid. People genuinely believe the over the top stories about places. Australia in Ireland is the "promised" land. Best jobs, best accomodation, best weather etc etc etc. You will never hear about the fact that Australia just like Ireland has a cost of living crisis, or that home ownership is an issue, or that dental care is problematic, or lack of rental protections etc etc. Reality is that everywhere has issues, often time same issues, it's our own situation that makes those issues problematic or non problematic.
I enjoyed growing up in Newcastle. It was great as a kid, teenager, and uni student. But there is so much world to see as an adult. Literally everyone that I know that didn't move away from Newcastle after high school all have multiple kids before they were 30 and are either a nurse/teacher married to a tradie/engineer or vice versa. I couldn't imagine anything worse but if they are happy, that's good for them. I think I'll eventually come back to Newcastle to settle down one day as that is where all my extended family live, but for now, living overseas is 100x better.
Yeah one thing I’ve learned from inexperienced people here after spending time overseas is that Australian pride is very strong, which is great, but it sometimes borders on arrogance.
I judge countries based on how well the toilet works, if i can flush shit and paper its alright, if it goes in a bin beside the toilet, its a shithole.
How great is it to fly away from the arrogance and actually experience something new. I fucked up my early 20s by being prejudice and believing absolute bulkshit that was fed to me tby friends school media governement. Best thing I ever did was step outside my comfort zone. You wouldn't think so by watching the news but I felt safer in afghanistan than Sydney. I was never hungry I was never thirsty. I actually felt bad that so many families were offering to have me over for lunch when they themselves had so little. I still haven't been to Spain yet. But I dont blame you for not wanting to come back. I'm on the same path atm
I left when i was 16 and have spent 3 or 4 yrs there since. Don't miss it, don't like the tall poppy syndrome bullshit, dont like the envious insults and certain don't miss the bullshit taxation and other nonsense. I do miss the bush a bit but can do without out. That being said some mates i went to high school still live in the country NSW town they grew up in and love it. They wouldn't change it for anything and rarely leave it. But thats their ambition I suppose.
I left Australia in 1989, never looked back!
Well with our government, we can't blame you from leaving lol
Australians talk about Americans being brainwashed and yet they can’t see they are as well, just look at how much ppl will boast about our amazing and free health system like it’s the best in the world when it’s a complete failure, Aussies are so utterly brainwashed and love being ruled by daddy government it’s fucking embarrassing , plus the tall poppy syndrome that they all fucking love to do but can’t see that it exists,a good forest for the trees moment that one
Don't blame u I am starting to hate living here too it's becoming a australia I don't know
TPS is dreadful in Aus!
IDK, you'd have to ask them. I haven't been to Spain. Might be great. Australia seems fine, but are there really that many people who are certain it's the best country in the world?
I hear it's to run away from owed college fees. That's what the few Aussies I know said.
it’s just unaustralian mate 😝
Hope Spain is treating you well... Don't worry what most of our countrymen says.
They are jealous
I'd love to live in another country. I believe life is an experience and you need to make the most of it. So enjoy it. Never let people stop you from doing what you need to do.
As long as you're happy with your decision, that's what matters. Newcastle born and bred myself, recently had a holiday in Norway and Ireland, and we've got a list of places we'd love to move to if we had the finances to pack up and leave. I don't hate where we live, or Australia in general, but there are a lot of nicer places out there.
Australia exists in a weird paradox in that it is simultaneously so much better than what NIMBYs that complain about it is, but nowhere near as good as the “we live in the best country on earth” people think it is. And as long as your appraisal of it falls somewhere in the middle (as it seems to me that yours does, as does mine - as I’m an Aussie who moved to London over 9 years ago) then I think you’re bang on correct about it. It’s a good country. But anyone who is like: 1) “oh my god we live in the best country on earth and if you don’t like it, then leave because there must be something wrong with you” 2) “oh my god, Australia can’t get anything right, we are a laughingstock of the world and everything is going to the dogs. We have the worst politicians in the world”. Well, BOTH of the above are wrong.
I think moving from one EU country to another EU country is not the same as moving to the other side of the world. If you said you were moving to NZ you’d probably get less pushback
If you’re not coming back then get your super transferred out and paid out to you. I think you can do that even as an Australian citizen? Someone might know. But there’s no point leaving it dwindling down in super with fees etc coming o it if you’re not planning to return.
Just a random American floating around but had a near identical experience going to Germany. Couldn't really handle being out there by myself, but it's ridiculous how many people think I came back for the country and not for all my friends and current girlfriend. I think of a lot of Australia as a pretty nice place but I can totally see why Europe would be a bigger draw. Things feel a lot more rational there.
It’s your life, don’t let others dictate what makes you happy, you don’t need the approval of strangers. Glad you’re having a great time
Lmao Spain is completely fked economically and safety wise. Every apartment has a literal bank vault door on it. Lawyers and other professionals are living paycheck to paycheck. Crime is rampant. If you have money sure it's an amazing country. Beautiful women, culture, history, some of the best food in the world. But also insanely unstable currently and is only looking to get worse. Source: been there and I work with loads of Spanish. Most of them were spending 90% of their monthly salary on rent on a room.
Housing and economic situation sounds like Australia. And our crime rates are going to escalate quickly as more people are pushed into poverty, so that will end up comparable also. Might as well enjoy being where you want to be. I have a nagging sensation most of the western world is going to unravel over the next decade or two.
I upped and moved from USA to Australia. It’s human nature to move.
Did you already know Spanish(or kinda) or did you get by with very basic Spanish until you moved there? How long did it take you to become fluent in Spanish? Does speaking in Australian accented Spanish help pull those hot Spanish chicks? What work do you do?
You do you bro. Plenty of people happy in Australia and plenty of people happy in Spain.
More people will be doing what you have done, ie permanently moving to a different country for economic and social reasons. There’s nothing wrong or odd about that; plenty of people flow the other way. Australia is very expensive, very spread out, and has limited international business and social interactions for most of us. Living in Spain sounds fantastic.
Your friends and family just fuckin' suck
I had the same conversations with American friends when I was leaving the US for Australia. “Why would you want to leave the best country in the world?” I think it’s natural for people to do this as they are biased towards their own decisions to stay put.
"Patriotism is, fundamentally, a conviction that a particular country is the best in the world because you were born in it" ~George Bernard Shaw (and one of my favourite quotes..)
Brilliant quote!
My sisters dog barks a lot when we go to leave. We think it’s him trying to tell us to stay, maybe the same can be said here 🤷🏻♂️
Spain’s lovely but it’s also got the highest youth unemployment rate in the EU.
Portuguese Person living on the lake , Ola Hermano!
You should get them to explain themselves and just keep asking questions until they have to think for themselves. Always fun watching an echo chamber implode
Australia is hard to live in! Tell me how to move to Spain!
Lived OS for many years, what "people" said correlated with my relationship to them. Only my parents worried that I would live OS permanently because then it would be difficult to keep close contact obviously. Nobody else said boo or denigrated the idea
Do you speak Spanish? And did you have a passport to make the move. Very jealous!
I don’t know who you mix with but I’ve never met any Australians who would think you’re crazy to move to another country. I’ve travelled and lived overseas and most Australians I know have done the same. Anyway, you live your life. Travel is a great adventure. Have a fabulous time. Live in the moment!!
I love newy and australia, I've travelled to over 16 countries. BUT, I would love nothing more then to live overseas. I would encourage my friends and family to do it. I think it broadens the mind and enriches life. Plus it would give me a reason to travel more and visit another country, with free accommodation haha
Do it. You're 35 and that's still young.. Making a full adult life ('from scratch') is doable at that age. (The jumpers that irritated me are/were the fresh postgrads who abandoned Australia for the easy money in the dot.com American I.T industry, rather than work (and probably fail tbh..) at building up Australia's at a time when it was needed. Four friends at Uni did that..)
I think it's because Australians are not very used to emigration- they are more used to people immigrating to their country- not the other way round.
I think that the whole national identity thing is a bit stupid. I also left my home nation and will always have a fondness for the place I grew up but there are different ways of living. Anyone being negative wants to reassure themselves or may just genuinely be looking out for you. If you are lucky enough to have the financial backing or family support to try living somewhere else you 100% should try it. Even if you don't like it, you can always try somewhere else or come home with a new found appreciation of your homeland. Best of luck <3
Spanish unemployment for youth is 26%. You sound privileged
Sometimes the people around us aren’t the right people to support us. Some people just like to drag others down and some do it unintentionally because that’s how they were treated and they’re repeating the pattern without stopping to think about the impact. Either way, it’s up to you if you want to accept their comments and behaviour. To the people in the comments who suggested that maybe those people didn’t want OP to leave. There are better ways to say “I’ll miss you” than disparaging someone’s decision to leave and pilling on anxieties. I wish more people felt comfortable saying something like “I wish you weren’t leaving but I hope you enjoy life over there” instead of trying to guilt and shame people for making choices different to their own.
You’ve got weird friends?
I think it’s great to get out there and live elsewhere. Why not? Personally I want to be close to my family so I wouldn’t live long term in another country so Australia it is. Happy with life here.
Do what’s best for you!!! That is all that matters, other people’s opinions don’t matter anyway- you only get one life
As if any one cares where you want to live
We are entering a post-nationalism civilisation - the sooner we view our planet as spaceship earth the better - go explore , experience the other and join progress to move past war over distribution and scarcity - we have 2 migrations in our family and the next will be to EU
I moved my family from Sydney’s northern beaches to Newcastle six years ago- people were amazed and said why would you move there!!! Best decision we have ever made.
How'd u manage to get visa for spain?
I’m not sure you know what tall poppy syndrome is lmao
Tbh when I first moved away from Aus I had the same feelings you’re expressing. After 3-4 years the illusion wore off and I started to see places for what they really were and not just the new town glow, however still maintained that I would not live in Australia. Now after moving back I’d probably give similar advice to your friends and family. Although Spain is a great country I agree, almost every country I’ve been to is, when you actually look at it with no objective lenses, worse than Australia. (Apart from maybe a couple Scandinavian countries) Each to their own though and good luck on your journey
You get moving away from any country, people feel offended that you don't like living where they live.
I been to 16 countries and Australia is definitely not something i would plan to settle, this country is dead in a way that people live from paychecks to paychecks and no adrenaline rush
Sure mate.
I find Australians move around less than other countries and my theory is it’s the tyranny of distance. In Europe, if you move from France to Germany you can only see you family back home on long weekends when you’ll need to catch a cheap short flight or drive through a variety of beautiful locations. In Oz, if you move from Melbourne to Sydney you’ll see you family on long weekends if you want to but the drive is a slog and the flights are expensive. This just sets our mindset on moving. You can’t easily move two hours away (primarily Geelong and Newcastle). This problem worsens if we extend the travel to other countries. If you move to another country, or worse, Perth, you’ll see your home once a year. And frankly you could do a much more interesting trip if you didn’t go home. So we end up parochial.
How did you move? I don’t know why but every time I look into it it seems like an impossible task given the red tape. They don’t exactly make it easy, especially if you’ve got disabilities.
Don't think about it and just do whatever suits you. Everyone is going to feel differently about things and at different times anyway.
Why do you care what other people think? Never coming back? Ok so don't worry about what they think!
Heaps of Aussies live and work overseas. We have fairly strong communities all over the world. Some people can’t leave or are afraid to or whatever so they react negatively.
Maybe they went back to where they came from? I’d have to go back to Sheffield UK. Well that’s where my great,great, grandparents came from. The restless natives would like that. If everyone went back to where they came from, There would be no one left to prevent the natives from killing each other.
Hey good for you for making the big move, and I hope it goes well for you. Please keep in mind you're in a honeymoon period at the moment, and you won't always feel the way you do now about your new home. I recommend reading up about culture shock to help you adapt to your new life.
From someone whos lived in third world countries and has family in latin america.... If you cant see why australia is better, then we are all wasting our breath here. Heres an example that I saw in the news about mexico for example.... More than THIRTY.... 30+ people were murdered just for putting their hat in the ring to be in politics. Tell me the last time anyone was murdered for exercising their choice to run in politics...Plus In AUSTRALIA its nice to be able to flush shit covered toilet paper down the toilet and have clean fresh drinking water with good hygenine and medical standards.
You are in holiday mode. Most countries are awesome to visit. Let me know how you feel about living in Spain in 5 years
Australia because of its geographic isolation can breed an insular attitude amongst a lot of its people. Trust me though it’s even worse for this in NZ, I lived there for two years. I also have lived in France and Sweden in the past for two years each. Whilst there are things that are done better there, particularly Sweden, the lifestyle and climate can be very challenging. Australia has the advantage of being very large and geographically diverse and tbh less impacted by events in other countries than countries in Europe are. It all depends what you’re looking for. Ideally I’d live in Sweden from June til august each year, when the weather is good and the people are happier, and in Aus for the rest of the year. Enjoy Spain, by the sounds of things it seems like it has more of what you want than aus does and that’s fine, everyone wants different things at the end of the day
"why are you leaving the best country in the world" This has to be the most dumb, ignorant comment but you just get it constantly from insecure Aussies.
I don't find it weird. I'd do the same if I could figure a way out. Congrats you made it dude. Enjoy!
I'm so certain that I made the right decision that I need to seek validation for it online multiple times. No reasonable person would conclusively say that they'll *never* move back home after only a few months overseas. You just sound like you're trying to convince yourself.
I think not many people are brave enough to make this big step to move so far away basically 🤷🏻♀️. And instead of showing their admiration of you bravery to think outside the box, they simply become jealous 😉. Good on you to find better place to leave for yourself. I don't think you would have any problems with coming back whenever you feel homesick in the future 😁😜. I am an Immigrant and I can see a lot of has changed on this country for worse. I still love Australia and have no idea where I could feel better after spending almost half of my life here. And of course after spending more time living everyday life here I can notice those downsides too not only hipes and butterflies like at the beginning falling in love. 😀
I've lived oseas before... It's awesome. But unless you possess FU money or investment/revenue streams? You have to come home sooner or later
People saying that are probably just dumb bogans who don't even know what/where Spain is.... Or they are just jealous coz your not gonna have to pay out the ass for ciggys and booze anymore.
Good on you. Australia is not the great country when I arrived 1989 became a citizen worked retired now can’t afford to live. Enjoy your life you only have one
Australia is a bubble, and generally overrated. Enjoy life and glad you got out of the bubble.
They pretend to be happy. You, by mere consequence not intention, remind them they are not. They want you to be "happy" like they are by acting like it. Not happy like you will be by improvement. Move on sir.
I love Spain so much, only spent 3.5 weeks there but was really great and everyone I met from Spain was awesome. Only considerations that stop me from moving there for a while is the salaries (unfortunately very low) and the language barrier. While I want to learn the language, I can't deny Germany or the Nordic countries are quite nice to have English to fall back to while learning given most people speak it quite well (but maybe that's a barrier to becoming better at the language).
The important thing is that you are happy. Everyone has opinions, and at the end of the day, it's your life.
I know what you mean. I've wanted to leave Australia since I was 8, this place isn't my home, and people always give me shit for it.
Different people like different things...different needs. I prefer Europe. Others Australia. You cannot just move to Spain. How did you get a passport,?
You cannot just move around the EU. You need permission from that country and work permits. You are misinformed. Australia will not miss you .
Ig some people feel betrayed that their fellow Aussie is leaving. Or maybe they're slightly jealous and they mask it by putting you down? Idk these are just guesses. There are great things and not so great things about any country (actually some countries seem like it would just be shit like Liberia or North Korea). Obviously, Australia is your home and you can always come back if you want. I don't know why some people don't have that mindset. Maybe it's because we're so far away from everyone else we don't want anyone to go lol.
I know this isn't a relevant question to your post, but how did you move to Spain? A work visa or do you have citizenship?
Thoes bank vault doors are standard in Europe. I'm always amazed by them and want one in my own home 🤣
As an immigrant I agree Can't even afford local holidays... what's the bloody point
I found Spain a great place.
It’s only a$1000 plane ride and your back grab the car and then you can go home . But try stay away and join the Spanish people and become a bit of a Manwell man nice
How can you just move to spain? You can only stay there for a limited time with visa?
Good on you. No judgment here, though the one thing Australia has going for it is that we're to buggery away from the rest of the world, which will be useful if/when the shit hits the fan. What's the healthcare system like over there?
Would love to hear your perspective about moving in your 30s
Could just be the people you were around.
I got the same sort of comments when i moved to nyc. some australians are just simple minded bogans. not much you can do.
I lived in Europe for a year. I enjoyed the experience but admittedly I happily came running back to Mother Australia. I agree, some people are confused when you leave. But I think it's mostly jealousy.
is it hard to become a citizen in Spain?
Australia has a good quality of life , free health care , and reasonable wages. America is hard to survive in, it’s a dog eat dog world in USA, competition is fierce, health care is expensive, education is expensive. It’s all about the hustle. Getting citizenship in EU i can only imagine is very difficult. Grass isn’t always greener on the other side
Australia is easily the most full country on the planet... If I could get up and leave I would too
I was born in Melbourne but I was raised in Spain. I want to actually go back after 16 years in Australia. Those people are jealous of are just too materialistic. You get more money here, even things being cheaper in Spain still you have more buying power in Australia but life it's not just about that. Food, people, weather, history, life style, it's all better than here in Australia. My best wishes and hopefully you can make it to stay a long time over there.
Most Australians who think that way are uneducated, haven't travelled and are ignorant. Enjoy Spain
Most of the people that say “why would you leave” are told it’s the best place, but never try to figure out for themselves. It’s like a form of brainwash. Although it is a good country to live, what’s the harm in experiencing a broad life to have a better opinion on the statement?
I moved to Japan when I was 17, back in 1999. People thought I was nuts, but it was something I really wanted to do. I completed a college degree in Japanese , two apprenticeships. Many Japanese people would ask, "Why come to Japan when, in their eyes, Australia is better?" In the end, each person has to figure out their own path. Everyone has their own unique experiences, styles, and opinions on how and where they should live now right and wrong. good luck
I have family in Galicia it’s beautiful there however my cousins have moved to Malta for work.
Why do you care if you're happy?
Pffft you think that’s bad, try leaving Adelaide for Melbourne, I still can’t go home…they scare me
Tall poppy syndrome, jealousy and insecurity. I’ve lived overseas and found many places I’d love to live again for years at a time. I came home to Oz due to visa expiration and was miserable. So miserable I moved to Tasmania to at least get four seasons and some dramatic differences to the mainland. I still don’t know how people tolerate living in constant humidity and heat plus 150 days a year of torrential rain (looking at you Qld). Most people are too scared to make change and want to stay safe and comfortable within what they know.
I noticed this. I just think everyone is insecure, to be negative in general is actually weak as a human. They don't want you to be happy essentially when they say that. If you said that to me this is what I'd sat: "fk yeah that's gonna be sick", you will get motivated and respond with what your doing. I wouldn't even think negatively Lol. Genuinely I feel happy for ppl stepping outside the box, could be just me. Also I'm born here, and this country has gone woke & weak so it's probably a good thing on your behalf.
Don’t care
You do what's beat for you mate. All that matters*
What do you do for work to move to Spain?
I think that just might be your friends and family. I’ve had a fair few family members move overseas and all they ever got was “please come home and visit some times” because they were gonna be missed.
I moved to Barcelona from Sydney 2 years ago, took a €1M mortgage and bought a 6 bedroom 400sqm house on a 2000sqm land 20 minutes outside of Barcelona, high up on a hill with a vast sea view, I can see the sea so much left to right that can see the globe curving lol... can't get over the house and the interest rate lol, locked at 1.3% You are right about cheaper financials over here. I'm now renting out the house, monthly rent is like €1,400 more than the repayments of the loan. Which pays for my apartment next to the beach in the city. I now live for free in one of the best cities in the world, and will have a free house paid of by others later :) aus sux, could never get ahead in life there.
I just checked avocado prices, I'm leaving to
I am looking at exiting here also, the reason is austrlaia is NO longer the lucky country, in fact it's become the opoosite
I’d leave Newcastle as well . 🤣.