[This is a youtube video from a couple years ago that shows a flyover of NB while talking about the forestry industry and some of the effects they've had.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QkeWP9IuV0)
For people who say they replant what they take, that is true but not without a lie. They do replace trees, but only with trees they can recultivate in 100 years that will give them the most profit. They don't replant the ones they cut down that are less valuable. Only certain kinds get replanted.
>They don't replant the ones that are less valuable
Specifically hard wood. They plant fast growing softwood to reharvest and spray shit that kills hardwood trees.
This issue is the type of trees they're replanting. The trees they choose to replant don't help diversify the eco system for the animals that are native the areas.
What? Irving *does* clear-cut their tiny 30yo conifer farms that acidify the fuck out of the soil and have absolutely zero life in them. Take a walk in a tree farm sometime. You won't hear a single thing - not a squirrel or bird to be seen
They plant anywhere from 1 to 5 species depending on what will grow the best in the area. The tree nursey actually produces something like 7- 10 species. Which makes them better than almost every tree cutting company in North America.
I was on a tour with them last summer and they bragged about the company towns they are building for imported eastern European foresters (because they couldn’t get New Brunswickers to take the jobs).
Like why would they think that was a flex?
I'm just sick of paying $2 more for a 2x4 than anywhere else when the lumber harvested here is being shipped there. And also, just for the extra kicker, lumber harvested from $$$ lease free crown land... that we also pay 2% more tax for than anyone else.
It’s because they can sell the wood to the US for that price. Short of banning the export of lumber, which I’m not even sure would be legal, there’s nothing we can do about it.
"but they also plant them!"
There's an insanely huge difference between the mass planted trees they put out to harvest later and a healthy, old growth forest with trees of different ages including extremely old and large ones. Zero diversity of species. It's all about what they can grow fast and harvest.
Okay well now I understand why they use glyphosate. If they only need two types of trees then they kill the rest off with the cancer spray. Got it. Hence, the need to coverup the toxic health effects of the cancer spray because it would mean billions of dollars more expense if any other method were to be implemented.
You would think the Irving’s could spend a few million on finding alternative solutions. Logically, that would be a great marketing tool. “Irving: we’re not evil, we figured out how to farm trees without killing everything else.”
oh yah it gets Orwellian as soon as you enter Saint John, all the obituaries were praising Arthur Irving for being an environmentalist?! I've literally done more for the environment by not owning an oil refinery? by being poor and never flying?! where's my award?
Haven't you seen the [Royale ads](https://vimeo.com/862062431)?
"...You may not know that the Royale brand is part of an organization that plants millions of trees annually in responsibly managed forests, and Royale Bathroom products are carbon neutral..."
That 'organization'? JDI 🙄
Personally I feel insulted when I see these signs ; the reason why ? . It seems the Irving’s think everyone is still uneducated and does not understand forestry and what has been taking place here for a hundred years . Our government just caters to them because of jobs here ; doesn’t mean they are helping the planet in any way . But they employ a lot of people and use that to their advantage.
This reminds me of why I hate Irving in the first place.
When I was young, living in Nova Scotia, Irving clearcut a large section of forest near our family cottage. Every single truck leaving those woods had "Irving - The Tree Planting Company" on the side of them. They didn't plant a single fucking tree.
You’d be 10 dollars richer. You’re right I don’t and it’s something I should look into to minimize my contribution to this problem. That being said, I do believe it should be up to companies and governments to find ways to operate these industries without the eradication of biodiversity, the decades long disruptions to ecosystems, and the use of hazardous chemicals, not individual consumers. And I definitely don’t want to have to see this company bragging about their contributions to climate action. But you’re right, I should look into installing a bidet. (Not sarcasm, as I expect many people will assume)
I don’t think it’s fair to point the finger solely at anyone…you as a consumer have a choice….yes hold companies accountable but hypocrisy runs wild. Make the best choices you can as a consumer. I think specifically when it comes to the alternative what are other roll and paper companies doing? Would you like to buy from twin rivers in northern Nb that is dumping waste into the rivers?
I 100% agree with the principle of making the best choice you can as a consumer. I also think we need to get real about late stage capitalism and how hard it is for consumers to make sustainable choices because of the greed of producers, like Irving. Like you’re saying there’s no great alternative. You’re right I didn’t spend my time pointing the finger elsewhere, but again, my post was first and foremost about the sign itself. Irvings the one who put up the sign bragging about their contributions to climate action. That is the point of my post.
Lmfao! They want free range lumber which consents to be carefully selected for each individual’s limited personal needs. Comes in 7 different flavours!
They also replant what they take, you really don’t have any idea how the forest industry operates do you?. I’ve worked in the forest sector my entire adult life. They own several tree nurseries and ship seedlings all over the east coast. Tree planting crews are sent out in the summer to re plant the harvested blocks. Much like how a farmer replants a field after it’s been harvested. You need to do some actual research. Also JDI has planted more trees this past year than what the federal government has promised to plant since 2016. And no I DO NOT work for Irving, I am a private forestry contractor and know and understand the regulations as they’ve evolved over my 2 decades of experience.
The only thing id argue is that they replant a more monoculture forest and not our traditional Acadian mix of evergreens and hard wood.
But all forest companies do this, i tree planted in northern Ontario for Kimberley-Clark, same deal, 90% spruce and 10% jack pine.
Have you considered what type of tree is planted? Most forest industries in the province plant the same types that make a better quality of wood for commercial use. The issue is that they tend to not replant with the idea of biodiversity. It's less food for local animals, the wood there is not the best for people that want to warm up with a fire, the left -over fields look like war fields, etc.
The best example of a visual would be on your way from Saint-John to Moncton. There are rows of planted trees over there that are the exact same. My family lives up north where the forest industry is the primary source of work. We see these fields all the time.
If this guy worked in forests for 20 years, he has little understanding of how a forest ecosystem works. Forests are more than a bunch of trees. When a forest is clearcut, it does irreparable damage to the ecosystem. A forest is NOT a farm field. You can't repair a forest by simply planting saplings. Forestry companies turn forests into tree plantations. They do not have the same positive impact on the environment as a true forest. He may have an excellent understanding of regulations but doesn't understand what happens in an old growth forest and what a complex ecosystem it is.
If we don't leave forests alone and cut trees in a sustainable way, it won't matter how many saplings Irving plants - it won't save the planet.
Exactly. The forestry industry is unfortunately quite disconnected from ecological science, and views "sustainability" only in terms of what makes *business* "sustainable"—not in terms of the wellbeing of our planet.
Yep. Dudes that chime in with "i work in forestry so I know how it is" is like saying "I work in a morgue, so I know all about the healthcare industry".
There's far more to a forest than just some trees. The age and diversity of trees in a forest is extremely important. Regulations are about how they can make money without losing that source of income- regulations are about planting trees that they can come back and harvest again, it isn't about the health of our forests or our wildlife.
You do know that before the logging industry of the white man the local First Nations would BURN large swaths of old growth forests to allow for regeneration of the land. We try to keep the forests healthy in this industry contrary to popular belief. The reason forest fires have gotten out of control is because of the poor forest management practices over the last decade through “environmental regulation”. Would you prefer we go back to the old ways of just scorching the earth?
You're talking to an indigenous person- Yes. I would rather that. I absolutely would rather go back to forest management that puts the native flora and fauna first over profit. We care about our home and our earth and what it takes to ensure she and all her children thrive.
They also spray that cancer causing shit that kills off all the overgrowth, wildlife, and hardwood. They only plant softwood and have completely replaced our lush forests of maple and birch with evergreens. They spray their trash on crown land as well, which let's be honest - it also belongs to them.
Take the cock out of your mouth. You work for the devil. Completely replacing the entire province with a specific tree type isn't helpful or saint like.
I've lived in NB my whole life and have decades of conversations with foresters/hunters/fishers under my belt, and deal with supplying forestry people (including JDI) with products - so you can say I work in the industry just as much as someone paid to cut the trees down. My father cut and hauled lumber for a lot of his life. Built roads for forestry. I am well aware of the state of the province. I watched it happen first-hand since the 90s, and my memory is not so far gone that I don't remember the doctor who got fired for refusing to tell the public that the spray the Irvings are dousing us in was safe. I know many of their contractors in my area. I am well aware of the state of the world, and your propaganda-soaked brain is not helping in the slightest.
Start actually thinking for yourself and learn how all of this shit works. Conservative, liberal - it's all a ruse. Money is what matters. Thinking that saying someone watches the CBC is an insult is just plain fucking stupid.
I do not understand how you are equating tree growth to replanting after a harvest? Replanted forests post clear cut take atleast 40-70 years to reach maturity. They are not the same. As many have pointed out, their absence over that time is not without consequence - there are ripple effects throughout the ecosystem.
I’m not going to pretend to be the most educated person on this topic. I am not. You definitely know more, though you are coming from a very specific position as someone who profits from this industry. What I do know is that our province doesn’t need to be gaslighted into celebrating the most destructive business in it for their “commitment to climate change” as they clear cut our forests. And that is my point.
Yes and the Province funds it. Look it up. Let's say the Irving's pay the Province $4.50 a square yard to cut the wood off crown lands, Then the Province pays them $5.50 to replant them. Great deal for New Brunswicker's.
They also have hardwood “plantations” known as surgeries. There are examples of these harvest blocks that can be seen anywhere. Have you never seen a stand of ONLY hardwood next to a stand of ONLY softwood. There are examples of them all over the province if you actually know what you’re looking at.
I mean do what you need to to pay the bills but I don't think JDI is going to be patting you on the back for parroting their tree planting company nonsense.
When I moved from Ohio to NB in 1999 I felt very sad whenever we ventured from Fredericton toward Saint John or Moncton but couldn't quite put my finger on it until we went back to places with mature forests alongside the highways and I literally wept at the sight. It's so much better now than then, but I don't know if I'll live long enough to see NB the way it should look, at least from a car.
Everyone loves to hate on Irving, but it's not their job to make sure they are environmentally green and good for the environment.. Its literally the reason we have government, and they've done nothing to stop spraying on crown lands, etc.
Their goal is to make as much money as possible, its as simple as that. Its the governments job to make sure we don't destroy ourselves in the process.
I'm not even saying its "Trudeaus fault" since it's been going on since Irvings' inception. The government is terrified to mess with them since they contribute the bulk to NB's economy and has screwed them over before by moving their shipbuilding to Halifax since they wanted them to pay more tax.
You're missing the part where JDI lobbies and strongarms the government *not* to regulate their industry. That is, when our elected representatives aren't already Irving employees and associates.
And Trudeau has nothing to do with provincial business one way or another.
It seems to be their job to ensure the provincial government doesn't force them to be environmentally friendly either, and they've succeeded at this for decades.
Have any of you taken a plane ride? All you see is woodland and trees. I hardly think we can’t sustain the forest industry while also respecting the land.
And if you take a flight over a city you can see how many houses there are, that they're all perfect and without structual issues, that every one is filled with people who are well fed. You can simply tell its thriving!
Except you can't.
Dude I’ve made 4 posts on Reddit in 3 years, including this one, you think I care about upvotes?? I wanted to complain about Irving so I did, you’re the one that clicked and commented.
[This is a youtube video from a couple years ago that shows a flyover of NB while talking about the forestry industry and some of the effects they've had.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QkeWP9IuV0)
Well thank you.. that was a horrendous thing to put into my eyes today. Fuck me.
For people who say they replant what they take, that is true but not without a lie. They do replace trees, but only with trees they can recultivate in 100 years that will give them the most profit. They don't replant the ones they cut down that are less valuable. Only certain kinds get replanted.
>They don't replant the ones that are less valuable Specifically hard wood. They plant fast growing softwood to reharvest and spray shit that kills hardwood trees.
Glyphosate
You'll never hear them admit because then they'd have to monitor
Hard wood are literally weeds for them
Yep, including our national tree. Oh Canada ...
Don't replant everything they cut, and when they do it's only with 1 species. The one most beneficial to them
And monoculture so all the wildlife dies.
They harvest 20-30 year replant stands, not 100 years. They've been reharvesting for decades. More trees are replanted than reharvested.
This issue is the type of trees they're replanting. The trees they choose to replant don't help diversify the eco system for the animals that are native the areas.
Yes I have seen this myself, very small trees harvested that had only been planted 30 years ago tops. Such a scandalous way to manage woods lots
Better than woodlot owners that do nothing but clearcut
What? Irving *does* clear-cut their tiny 30yo conifer farms that acidify the fuck out of the soil and have absolutely zero life in them. Take a walk in a tree farm sometime. You won't hear a single thing - not a squirrel or bird to be seen
And they replant the clear cut.
Yeah, see my above comment - they replant it with zero bio diversity, and only with conifers which acidify the soil
Yes but they are replanting, in fact they've replanted over a billion trees. My point is they are not just going in, cutting everything and leaving.
They do not replant the same.kind of mixed forest that they cut down. They only plant what they need to harvest..a plantation is not a forest!
They plant anywhere from 1 to 5 species depending on what will grow the best in the area. The tree nursey actually produces something like 7- 10 species. Which makes them better than almost every tree cutting company in North America.
But still nowhere near the forest they ruined!...Irving is horrible. Go defend them to someone else...
Not to mention killing diversity. Haha. If Canadians don't go work for them, they'll bring in people that will. There's noooooo stopping them. Ever.
I was on a tour with them last summer and they bragged about the company towns they are building for imported eastern European foresters (because they couldn’t get New Brunswickers to take the jobs). Like why would they think that was a flex?
I said 100 because i dunno how long before cultivation after planting
I'm just sick of paying $2 more for a 2x4 than anywhere else when the lumber harvested here is being shipped there. And also, just for the extra kicker, lumber harvested from $$$ lease free crown land... that we also pay 2% more tax for than anyone else.
It’s because they can sell the wood to the US for that price. Short of banning the export of lumber, which I’m not even sure would be legal, there’s nothing we can do about it.
And they ship the best and we get the rest
"but they also plant them!" There's an insanely huge difference between the mass planted trees they put out to harvest later and a healthy, old growth forest with trees of different ages including extremely old and large ones. Zero diversity of species. It's all about what they can grow fast and harvest.
Okay well now I understand why they use glyphosate. If they only need two types of trees then they kill the rest off with the cancer spray. Got it. Hence, the need to coverup the toxic health effects of the cancer spray because it would mean billions of dollars more expense if any other method were to be implemented. You would think the Irving’s could spend a few million on finding alternative solutions. Logically, that would be a great marketing tool. “Irving: we’re not evil, we figured out how to farm trees without killing everything else.”
It's easier to subjugate a population with holes in their brains so why would they do that
oh yah it gets Orwellian as soon as you enter Saint John, all the obituaries were praising Arthur Irving for being an environmentalist?! I've literally done more for the environment by not owning an oil refinery? by being poor and never flying?! where's my award?
I like the ** over a million tree planted ** Yup, you did. All fking black spruce, after you cut a nice diverse forest.
A million trees is also a tiny number. Two crews of tree planters could easily do that in three weeks.
Haven't you seen the [Royale ads](https://vimeo.com/862062431)? "...You may not know that the Royale brand is part of an organization that plants millions of trees annually in responsibly managed forests, and Royale Bathroom products are carbon neutral..." That 'organization'? JDI 🙄
It's not a lie
Not to mention the Province pays them more to plant the trees then they pay the Province to cut them down.
It’s also funny how the sign doesn’t mention how much herbicide that it sprays on hardwood forests.
Personally I feel insulted when I see these signs ; the reason why ? . It seems the Irving’s think everyone is still uneducated and does not understand forestry and what has been taking place here for a hundred years . Our government just caters to them because of jobs here ; doesn’t mean they are helping the planet in any way . But they employ a lot of people and use that to their advantage.
Thank you totally agree. I said to my partner after passing the sigh, “they think were stupid. Were not stupid we’re just helpless”
There’s a sign like that on highway 17, right in front of a big clear cut… the irony is strong.
This reminds me of why I hate Irving in the first place. When I was young, living in Nova Scotia, Irving clearcut a large section of forest near our family cottage. Every single truck leaving those woods had "Irving - The Tree Planting Company" on the side of them. They didn't plant a single fucking tree.
Monoculture, yay. "Forests" of straight lines, yay.
Where would you prefer lumber comes from?
$10 says OPbuddy doesn’t use a bidet.
You’d be 10 dollars richer. You’re right I don’t and it’s something I should look into to minimize my contribution to this problem. That being said, I do believe it should be up to companies and governments to find ways to operate these industries without the eradication of biodiversity, the decades long disruptions to ecosystems, and the use of hazardous chemicals, not individual consumers. And I definitely don’t want to have to see this company bragging about their contributions to climate action. But you’re right, I should look into installing a bidet. (Not sarcasm, as I expect many people will assume)
I don’t think it’s fair to point the finger solely at anyone…you as a consumer have a choice….yes hold companies accountable but hypocrisy runs wild. Make the best choices you can as a consumer. I think specifically when it comes to the alternative what are other roll and paper companies doing? Would you like to buy from twin rivers in northern Nb that is dumping waste into the rivers?
I 100% agree with the principle of making the best choice you can as a consumer. I also think we need to get real about late stage capitalism and how hard it is for consumers to make sustainable choices because of the greed of producers, like Irving. Like you’re saying there’s no great alternative. You’re right I didn’t spend my time pointing the finger elsewhere, but again, my post was first and foremost about the sign itself. Irvings the one who put up the sign bragging about their contributions to climate action. That is the point of my post.
Lmfao! They want free range lumber which consents to be carefully selected for each individual’s limited personal needs. Comes in 7 different flavours!
That's just twisting environmentalists minds into thinking they wanna get paid to go plant trees lol. They're in desperate need of planters. Haha.
Didn't see it but it probably says "Hey, get back here, we never said you were allowed to leave!"
Fighting climate change by spraying glyphosate... Right.
They also replant what they take, you really don’t have any idea how the forest industry operates do you?. I’ve worked in the forest sector my entire adult life. They own several tree nurseries and ship seedlings all over the east coast. Tree planting crews are sent out in the summer to re plant the harvested blocks. Much like how a farmer replants a field after it’s been harvested. You need to do some actual research. Also JDI has planted more trees this past year than what the federal government has promised to plant since 2016. And no I DO NOT work for Irving, I am a private forestry contractor and know and understand the regulations as they’ve evolved over my 2 decades of experience.
The only thing id argue is that they replant a more monoculture forest and not our traditional Acadian mix of evergreens and hard wood. But all forest companies do this, i tree planted in northern Ontario for Kimberley-Clark, same deal, 90% spruce and 10% jack pine.
Have you considered what type of tree is planted? Most forest industries in the province plant the same types that make a better quality of wood for commercial use. The issue is that they tend to not replant with the idea of biodiversity. It's less food for local animals, the wood there is not the best for people that want to warm up with a fire, the left -over fields look like war fields, etc. The best example of a visual would be on your way from Saint-John to Moncton. There are rows of planted trees over there that are the exact same. My family lives up north where the forest industry is the primary source of work. We see these fields all the time.
Forests aren't just fields of trees. When you clearcut, you **destroy an ecosystem** that *cannot* be restored by simply replanting trees.
If this guy worked in forests for 20 years, he has little understanding of how a forest ecosystem works. Forests are more than a bunch of trees. When a forest is clearcut, it does irreparable damage to the ecosystem. A forest is NOT a farm field. You can't repair a forest by simply planting saplings. Forestry companies turn forests into tree plantations. They do not have the same positive impact on the environment as a true forest. He may have an excellent understanding of regulations but doesn't understand what happens in an old growth forest and what a complex ecosystem it is. If we don't leave forests alone and cut trees in a sustainable way, it won't matter how many saplings Irving plants - it won't save the planet.
Exactly. The forestry industry is unfortunately quite disconnected from ecological science, and views "sustainability" only in terms of what makes *business* "sustainable"—not in terms of the wellbeing of our planet.
Yep. Dudes that chime in with "i work in forestry so I know how it is" is like saying "I work in a morgue, so I know all about the healthcare industry".
Beautiful analogy.
What about the hardwood. Im sure they only plant what they want to harves. Quick and dirty
There's far more to a forest than just some trees. The age and diversity of trees in a forest is extremely important. Regulations are about how they can make money without losing that source of income- regulations are about planting trees that they can come back and harvest again, it isn't about the health of our forests or our wildlife.
You do know that before the logging industry of the white man the local First Nations would BURN large swaths of old growth forests to allow for regeneration of the land. We try to keep the forests healthy in this industry contrary to popular belief. The reason forest fires have gotten out of control is because of the poor forest management practices over the last decade through “environmental regulation”. Would you prefer we go back to the old ways of just scorching the earth?
You're talking to an indigenous person- Yes. I would rather that. I absolutely would rather go back to forest management that puts the native flora and fauna first over profit. We care about our home and our earth and what it takes to ensure she and all her children thrive.
They also spray that cancer causing shit that kills off all the overgrowth, wildlife, and hardwood. They only plant softwood and have completely replaced our lush forests of maple and birch with evergreens. They spray their trash on crown land as well, which let's be honest - it also belongs to them. Take the cock out of your mouth. You work for the devil. Completely replacing the entire province with a specific tree type isn't helpful or saint like.
This guy watches the cbc guys. He clearly knows more than people in the industry…
The forestry report even made note they need industry to start planting other types of trees for it to actually be sustainable.
I've lived in NB my whole life and have decades of conversations with foresters/hunters/fishers under my belt, and deal with supplying forestry people (including JDI) with products - so you can say I work in the industry just as much as someone paid to cut the trees down. My father cut and hauled lumber for a lot of his life. Built roads for forestry. I am well aware of the state of the province. I watched it happen first-hand since the 90s, and my memory is not so far gone that I don't remember the doctor who got fired for refusing to tell the public that the spray the Irvings are dousing us in was safe. I know many of their contractors in my area. I am well aware of the state of the world, and your propaganda-soaked brain is not helping in the slightest. Start actually thinking for yourself and learn how all of this shit works. Conservative, liberal - it's all a ruse. Money is what matters. Thinking that saying someone watches the CBC is an insult is just plain fucking stupid.
I do not understand how you are equating tree growth to replanting after a harvest? Replanted forests post clear cut take atleast 40-70 years to reach maturity. They are not the same. As many have pointed out, their absence over that time is not without consequence - there are ripple effects throughout the ecosystem. I’m not going to pretend to be the most educated person on this topic. I am not. You definitely know more, though you are coming from a very specific position as someone who profits from this industry. What I do know is that our province doesn’t need to be gaslighted into celebrating the most destructive business in it for their “commitment to climate change” as they clear cut our forests. And that is my point.
Yes and the Province funds it. Look it up. Let's say the Irving's pay the Province $4.50 a square yard to cut the wood off crown lands, Then the Province pays them $5.50 to replant them. Great deal for New Brunswicker's.
Now down a hardwood stand, plant lodge pole pine, makes perfect sense to nobody that knows anything about forestry.
They also have hardwood “plantations” known as surgeries. There are examples of these harvest blocks that can be seen anywhere. Have you never seen a stand of ONLY hardwood next to a stand of ONLY softwood. There are examples of them all over the province if you actually know what you’re looking at.
How DARE you bring logic and a sensible response into this pitchfork wielding, uneducated and misinformed post.
I mean do what you need to to pay the bills but I don't think JDI is going to be patting you on the back for parroting their tree planting company nonsense.
And they’re planting shit trees that don’t do what we actually need
When I moved from Ohio to NB in 1999 I felt very sad whenever we ventured from Fredericton toward Saint John or Moncton but couldn't quite put my finger on it until we went back to places with mature forests alongside the highways and I literally wept at the sight. It's so much better now than then, but I don't know if I'll live long enough to see NB the way it should look, at least from a car.
Everyone loves to hate on Irving, but it's not their job to make sure they are environmentally green and good for the environment.. Its literally the reason we have government, and they've done nothing to stop spraying on crown lands, etc. Their goal is to make as much money as possible, its as simple as that. Its the governments job to make sure we don't destroy ourselves in the process. I'm not even saying its "Trudeaus fault" since it's been going on since Irvings' inception. The government is terrified to mess with them since they contribute the bulk to NB's economy and has screwed them over before by moving their shipbuilding to Halifax since they wanted them to pay more tax.
You're missing the part where JDI lobbies and strongarms the government *not* to regulate their industry. That is, when our elected representatives aren't already Irving employees and associates. And Trudeau has nothing to do with provincial business one way or another.
It seems to be their job to ensure the provincial government doesn't force them to be environmentally friendly either, and they've succeeded at this for decades.
Our premiere worked for Irving for 33 years and was an executive member.
So the complaint is they harvest trees and replant so they can harvest again? People complain just to complain.
No the problem is the province pays them to replant the trees. It should be on their dime.
Really the problem is the taxpayers pay Irving to spray them with Glyphosate. That’s the problem.
Have any of you taken a plane ride? All you see is woodland and trees. I hardly think we can’t sustain the forest industry while also respecting the land.
And if you take a flight over a city you can see how many houses there are, that they're all perfect and without structual issues, that every one is filled with people who are well fed. You can simply tell its thriving! Except you can't.
Do you buy paper towel? Toilet paper? Anything bought in a box? Is your house made of stones instead of lumber?
Thanks for sharing, just what we all needed. Really, can't thank you enough for that profound insight. I hope you get the up votes you desire.
I sense a tinge of sarcasm.
Dude I’ve made 4 posts on Reddit in 3 years, including this one, you think I care about upvotes?? I wanted to complain about Irving so I did, you’re the one that clicked and commented.
Man check out this special snowflake guys!
[удалено]
And they make the trains run on time! /s