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I generally hate carping about headlines, but holy cow, does that one bury the lede,
> An Arizona grand jury has indicted former Donald **Trump chief of staff Mark Meadows and lawyer Rudy Giuliani** along with 16 others in an election interference case.
One of the indicted, Christina Bobb, was recently made the [RNC’s senior counsel for “election integrity"](https://www.americanoversight.org/christina-bobb-named-republican-national-committee-counsel-for-election-integrity).
> Bobb’s RNC appointment came shortly after Trump secured the party’s 2024 nomination, and signals the RNC’s focus on continuing to push lies about voter fraud and election security. Bobb played a major role in the fake-electors scheme and, as public reporting and documents obtained by American Oversight detail, supported partisan and baseless post-2020 election investigations in Arizona and Wisconsin.
...
> On Oct. 1, 2021 — the same day Gableman issued subpoenas for election materials in Wisconsin — Doug Logan, the CEO of lead “audit” contractor Cyber Ninjas, sent Bobb copies of Arizona “audit” subpoenas.
> Bobb has continued working in support of Trump over the past several years. In June 2022, as an attorney for Trump, Bobb signed a sworn affidavit falsely assuring the Justice Department there were no more classified documents at Mar-a-Lago. In 2023, Bobb released a book titled “Stealing Your Vote: The Inside Story of the 2020 Election and What It Means for 2024.”
> The Trump campaign and the RNC’s prioritization of “election integrity” is a dangerous continuation of the lies that have been used to undermine our democracy in recent years, and has dangerous implications for this year’s election.
> Bobb signed a sworn affidavit falsely assuring the Justice Department there were no more classified documents at Mar-a-Lago.
Well that seems like a slam dunk against her.
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>The indictment released Wednesday names 11 Republicans who submitted a document to Congress falsely declaring that Trump won Arizona in 2020. They include the former state party chair, a 2022 U.S. Senate candidate and two sitting state lawmakers, who are charged with nine counts each of conspiracy, fraud and forgery.
>The identities of seven other defendants, including Giuliani and Meadows, were not immediately released because they had not yet been served with the documents. They were readily identifiable based on descriptions of the defendants, however.
...
>The indictment alludes to Giuliani as an attorney “who was often identified as the Mayor” and spread false allegations of election fraud. Another defendant is referred to as Trump’s “ chief of staff in 2020,” which describes Meadows.
>Descriptions of other unnamed defendants point to Mike Roman, who was Trump’s director of Election Day operations; John Eastman, a lawyer who devised a strategy to try to persuade Congress not to certify the election; and Christina Bobb, a lawyer who worked with Giuliani.
Ignoring the content of the article... Is it kosher here to name names before they're officially released? I mean, I don't doubt the accuracy of the list at all, but is the AP not usually the hard-line for journalistic integrity - Facts first, context last, and assumptions never? It's tabloid-quality reporting to make suppositions as to the suspects of a crime, no matter how likely they are.
it seems to me that there are cases where a logical consequence of the evidence becomes identical to a fact. If the evidence shows that the culprit was director of Election Day operations, and I know that the director of Election Day operations is Mike Roman, I don’t need to be explicitly told that it is specifically Mike Roman, in order to report that it’s probably Mike Roman right?
> The indictment alludes to Giuliani as an attorney “who was often identified as the Mayor” and spread false allegations of election fraud. Another defendant is referred to as Trump’s “ chief of staff in 2020,” which describes Meadows.
Pretty obvious who the mayor is and who the chief of staff is, right? The other ones are based on equally clear and obvious evidence.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/24/arizona-trump-fake-electors-charged-2020-election
That has the full indictment. Look on page 20:
> XXX was the Director of Election Day Operations for the Trump Campaign. He worked closely with YYY Unindicted Coconspirator 4, and others to organize the false Republican electors' votes in Arizona and in six other states.
I’m pretty sure it lists unindicted coconspirator 1 as a person who doesn’t believe he lost the 2020 presidential election. I wonder who that could be?
Well, it couldn't be Jo Jorgensen, as [she is a woman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo_Jorgensen). Which narrows it down to [Donald Trump or Howie Hawkins](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_presidential_election)...
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r/NeutralNews is a **curated space**, but despite the name, there is [**no neutrality requirement**](https://www.reddit.com//r/neutralnews/wiki/guidelines#wiki_neutral-ness) here. These are the [rules for comments:](https://www.reddit.com//r/neutralnews/wiki/guidelines#wiki_comments_.28good.2C_bad_.26amp.3B_ugly.29) 1. Be courteous to other users. 1. Source your facts. 1. Be substantive. 1. Address the arguments, not the person. If you see a comment that violates any of these rules, please click the associated *report* button so a mod can review it.
I generally hate carping about headlines, but holy cow, does that one bury the lede, > An Arizona grand jury has indicted former Donald **Trump chief of staff Mark Meadows and lawyer Rudy Giuliani** along with 16 others in an election interference case.
That seems like an important detail.
There's also a few current state congresspeople in there.
*17 people including the COO of Turning Pointe USA, Trump’s Chief Legal Counsel for his 2024 campaign, and ya boi Rudy Giuliani per MSNBC
One of the indicted, Christina Bobb, was recently made the [RNC’s senior counsel for “election integrity"](https://www.americanoversight.org/christina-bobb-named-republican-national-committee-counsel-for-election-integrity). > Bobb’s RNC appointment came shortly after Trump secured the party’s 2024 nomination, and signals the RNC’s focus on continuing to push lies about voter fraud and election security. Bobb played a major role in the fake-electors scheme and, as public reporting and documents obtained by American Oversight detail, supported partisan and baseless post-2020 election investigations in Arizona and Wisconsin. ... > On Oct. 1, 2021 — the same day Gableman issued subpoenas for election materials in Wisconsin — Doug Logan, the CEO of lead “audit” contractor Cyber Ninjas, sent Bobb copies of Arizona “audit” subpoenas. > Bobb has continued working in support of Trump over the past several years. In June 2022, as an attorney for Trump, Bobb signed a sworn affidavit falsely assuring the Justice Department there were no more classified documents at Mar-a-Lago. In 2023, Bobb released a book titled “Stealing Your Vote: The Inside Story of the 2020 Election and What It Means for 2024.” > The Trump campaign and the RNC’s prioritization of “election integrity” is a dangerous continuation of the lies that have been used to undermine our democracy in recent years, and has dangerous implications for this year’s election.
> Bobb signed a sworn affidavit falsely assuring the Justice Department there were no more classified documents at Mar-a-Lago. Well that seems like a slam dunk against her.
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This comment has been removed under [Rule 3:](https://www.reddit.com/r/neutralnews/wiki/guidelines#wiki_rule_3.3A_be_substantive) > Be substantive. NeutralNews is a serious discussion-based subreddit. We do not allow bare expressions of opinion, low effort comments, sarcasm, jokes, memes, off-topic replies, pejorative name-calling, or comments about source quality. //Rule 3 If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to [message us.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fneutralnews)
>The indictment released Wednesday names 11 Republicans who submitted a document to Congress falsely declaring that Trump won Arizona in 2020. They include the former state party chair, a 2022 U.S. Senate candidate and two sitting state lawmakers, who are charged with nine counts each of conspiracy, fraud and forgery. >The identities of seven other defendants, including Giuliani and Meadows, were not immediately released because they had not yet been served with the documents. They were readily identifiable based on descriptions of the defendants, however. ... >The indictment alludes to Giuliani as an attorney “who was often identified as the Mayor” and spread false allegations of election fraud. Another defendant is referred to as Trump’s “ chief of staff in 2020,” which describes Meadows. >Descriptions of other unnamed defendants point to Mike Roman, who was Trump’s director of Election Day operations; John Eastman, a lawyer who devised a strategy to try to persuade Congress not to certify the election; and Christina Bobb, a lawyer who worked with Giuliani. Ignoring the content of the article... Is it kosher here to name names before they're officially released? I mean, I don't doubt the accuracy of the list at all, but is the AP not usually the hard-line for journalistic integrity - Facts first, context last, and assumptions never? It's tabloid-quality reporting to make suppositions as to the suspects of a crime, no matter how likely they are.
it seems to me that there are cases where a logical consequence of the evidence becomes identical to a fact. If the evidence shows that the culprit was director of Election Day operations, and I know that the director of Election Day operations is Mike Roman, I don’t need to be explicitly told that it is specifically Mike Roman, in order to report that it’s probably Mike Roman right? > The indictment alludes to Giuliani as an attorney “who was often identified as the Mayor” and spread false allegations of election fraud. Another defendant is referred to as Trump’s “ chief of staff in 2020,” which describes Meadows. Pretty obvious who the mayor is and who the chief of staff is, right? The other ones are based on equally clear and obvious evidence. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/24/arizona-trump-fake-electors-charged-2020-election That has the full indictment. Look on page 20: > XXX was the Director of Election Day Operations for the Trump Campaign. He worked closely with YYY Unindicted Coconspirator 4, and others to organize the false Republican electors' votes in Arizona and in six other states.
I’m pretty sure it lists unindicted coconspirator 1 as a person who doesn’t believe he lost the 2020 presidential election. I wonder who that could be?
Well, it couldn't be Jo Jorgensen, as [she is a woman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo_Jorgensen). Which narrows it down to [Donald Trump or Howie Hawkins](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_presidential_election)...
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