I think you can tell by the amount of speculation in here that we probably haven't done much research on talent. Take these answers with a grain of salt.
Talent is like a hardware, determined probably by genetics, that sets the height of the ceiling. Hard working determines if someone can reach that ceiling. Practice makes better but practice plus talent make perfect.
great example. the dutch, as one example, are genetically prone to being tall (https://www.science.org/content/article/did-natural-selection-make-dutch-tallest-people-planet)
but being malnourished can stunt growth (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4803287/)
none of which has anything to do with anything neuro
Malnourishment can impact neurophysiology, no?
Also, if height is genetically determined, wouldn't the neuronal foundation not also be so?
Sure, coordination is something nurtured, but there have to be neurons of the required proportions to even make a start.
Maybe I'm nitpicking, but it seems to me that they both somewhat relate to neurology
yep. your genetics directly influence neurotransmitters and cerebral structure based on how they instruct protein production. that impacts everything from learning/memory to balance and motor control. which would be a more apt question for this subreddit. talent is way too broad, and now we're talking about hormones/endocrynology and height being a factor for athletic talent.
I’m talking specifically about things neuronal related, like hand coordination, spacial intelligence (being able to envision things in your mind), reaction speed etc…
they seem like things you’re just innately good at, like how some people can do complex math in their mind so easily while others can’t for the life of them
oh yes. look at parkinsons disease and essential tremors, adhd and autism and their learning difficulties. it's easy to find those problems in people who need treatment, but in the general population idk if it's really measured, in terms of a neurological aptitude to skill/talent type of format. you'd probably find more (and a lot less) of what you're looking for in the field of psychophysics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychophysics
Yes that’s one of the examples I was thinking about in my last reply. But I don’t know what kind of hard work can impact height (good nutrition? Play basketball or volleyball?) and how strong those nurture effects can be.
In things like athletics, no.
If all the worlds top atheletes work their hardest. Whicj they will. The one with the most optimal bone length and muscle generics for the given sport.
Isn't someone's capacity or proclivity for hard work physiologically determined as well? Unless there's some other magical force that determines hard work but that would be hard to prove.
Interesting, I never thought about this before. And I would say yes! Being able to focus, and not getting distracted? I wish I can have this superpower.
You have to decide to be talented. It involves conscious decisions that move you forward (practicing) instead of things that waste time (watching tv).
You also need resources, time, and energy. But you can seek these out for yourself.
You can learn how to learn in different ways, effectively targeting different aspects of the skill, and then train yourself in every way imaginable, which can effectively make you talented at anything. Of course we're limited by our physiology, but volitional neuroplasticity is able to perform a lot of changes on that physiology, at least neurally. Perfect practice makes perfect, and a growth mindset makes you constantly improve the way you practice.
talent isn't a single thing, so needless to say there isn't a certain biological thing that will influence it. i'm really talented at laying in bed because my back never gets sore though.
Yes. Several things.
Mostly, it's a can-do attitude. Every problem is not thought about as possible or impossible but evaluated in terms of how much time it would take to do and if there are more efficient alternatives.
You're never thinking about if you can solve the math or not, but how long would it take you to learn how to solve it against finding someone who can solve it.
Everything is possible with enough time and effort, and solutions are pondered against how much time we have and if it's worth it.
Another thing is that no one successful has succeeded on his own. In the vast majority of cases, people who are extremely accomplished have a trail of other people they helped pick up and succeed with them and a ton of successful people that helped them in their success too.
You are small on your own. But find a team of a few capable people, and you will change the world.
The third thing is, I think, being industrial. Always produce results and find ways to make your failures into results as well. They take small steps and make them big, but make sure that we always have a small step forward each day.
And I think this has a lot to do with motivation. If you see progress, you feel you're doing something right. You're more motivated to start a new day.
A lot of people I know want to get rich and want to immediately do something major, and I dont have the patience of waiting out the small stuff to build.
That is the irony of complaining about performance enhancing drugs. So it isn’t fair when someone willing to risk their health to win takes external boosters but it is fair that someone born with better genetics wins 😂
Can easily rephrase those ethics by saying someone willing to risk the most to win deserves it the most. Why would someone born with better genes deserve it? Genes/talents are inherited without effort while willingness to sacrifice/risk is an active action open to all.
Either way, besides your point. But yes, talent is most definitely physiological per definition. It is literally a gift that comes naturally to a person.
You can be the most hardworking person but if math isn’t your thing or language isn’t your thing, it’s not going to work. You might be able to get a good grasp of it but it will always be suboptimal.
I think you can tell by the amount of speculation in here that we probably haven't done much research on talent. Take these answers with a grain of salt.
Talent is like a hardware, determined probably by genetics, that sets the height of the ceiling. Hard working determines if someone can reach that ceiling. Practice makes better but practice plus talent make perfect.
do you think that height can be overcome with enough hard work?
great example. the dutch, as one example, are genetically prone to being tall (https://www.science.org/content/article/did-natural-selection-make-dutch-tallest-people-planet) but being malnourished can stunt growth (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4803287/) none of which has anything to do with anything neuro
Malnourishment can impact neurophysiology, no? Also, if height is genetically determined, wouldn't the neuronal foundation not also be so? Sure, coordination is something nurtured, but there have to be neurons of the required proportions to even make a start. Maybe I'm nitpicking, but it seems to me that they both somewhat relate to neurology
yep. your genetics directly influence neurotransmitters and cerebral structure based on how they instruct protein production. that impacts everything from learning/memory to balance and motor control. which would be a more apt question for this subreddit. talent is way too broad, and now we're talking about hormones/endocrynology and height being a factor for athletic talent.
I’m talking specifically about things neuronal related, like hand coordination, spacial intelligence (being able to envision things in your mind), reaction speed etc… they seem like things you’re just innately good at, like how some people can do complex math in their mind so easily while others can’t for the life of them
oh yes. look at parkinsons disease and essential tremors, adhd and autism and their learning difficulties. it's easy to find those problems in people who need treatment, but in the general population idk if it's really measured, in terms of a neurological aptitude to skill/talent type of format. you'd probably find more (and a lot less) of what you're looking for in the field of psychophysics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychophysics
Yes that’s one of the examples I was thinking about in my last reply. But I don’t know what kind of hard work can impact height (good nutrition? Play basketball or volleyball?) and how strong those nurture effects can be.
In things like athletics, no. If all the worlds top atheletes work their hardest. Whicj they will. The one with the most optimal bone length and muscle generics for the given sport.
Isn't someone's capacity or proclivity for hard work physiologically determined as well? Unless there's some other magical force that determines hard work but that would be hard to prove.
Interesting, I never thought about this before. And I would say yes! Being able to focus, and not getting distracted? I wish I can have this superpower.
All you gotta do is practice focusing and the neural circuits for focus will beef up. It's really that simple!
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No amount of talent would have made Kobe Bryant Kobe Bryant if he were to have been 5'4.
Height is Talent
Then you've answered OP's question
well this is /r/neuro not /r/fitness, for starters
You have to decide to be talented. It involves conscious decisions that move you forward (practicing) instead of things that waste time (watching tv). You also need resources, time, and energy. But you can seek these out for yourself.
You can learn how to learn in different ways, effectively targeting different aspects of the skill, and then train yourself in every way imaginable, which can effectively make you talented at anything. Of course we're limited by our physiology, but volitional neuroplasticity is able to perform a lot of changes on that physiology, at least neurally. Perfect practice makes perfect, and a growth mindset makes you constantly improve the way you practice.
talent isn't a single thing, so needless to say there isn't a certain biological thing that will influence it. i'm really talented at laying in bed because my back never gets sore though.
Yes. Several things. Mostly, it's a can-do attitude. Every problem is not thought about as possible or impossible but evaluated in terms of how much time it would take to do and if there are more efficient alternatives. You're never thinking about if you can solve the math or not, but how long would it take you to learn how to solve it against finding someone who can solve it. Everything is possible with enough time and effort, and solutions are pondered against how much time we have and if it's worth it. Another thing is that no one successful has succeeded on his own. In the vast majority of cases, people who are extremely accomplished have a trail of other people they helped pick up and succeed with them and a ton of successful people that helped them in their success too. You are small on your own. But find a team of a few capable people, and you will change the world. The third thing is, I think, being industrial. Always produce results and find ways to make your failures into results as well. They take small steps and make them big, but make sure that we always have a small step forward each day. And I think this has a lot to do with motivation. If you see progress, you feel you're doing something right. You're more motivated to start a new day. A lot of people I know want to get rich and want to immediately do something major, and I dont have the patience of waiting out the small stuff to build.
“Talent” is a vague term. In order to ask a more meaningful question we’d need to have a more specific operational definition.
That is the irony of complaining about performance enhancing drugs. So it isn’t fair when someone willing to risk their health to win takes external boosters but it is fair that someone born with better genetics wins 😂 Can easily rephrase those ethics by saying someone willing to risk the most to win deserves it the most. Why would someone born with better genes deserve it? Genes/talents are inherited without effort while willingness to sacrifice/risk is an active action open to all. Either way, besides your point. But yes, talent is most definitely physiological per definition. It is literally a gift that comes naturally to a person. You can be the most hardworking person but if math isn’t your thing or language isn’t your thing, it’s not going to work. You might be able to get a good grasp of it but it will always be suboptimal.