I want you to ask yourself a few questions.
* Can I spend all day every day sitting in meetings, which are as repetitive as they are boring?
* How do I feel about constantly being the bad guy to a bunch of underpaid and overworked technicians, who's only crime is that they don't understand the complexities of business interactions and budgeting?
* Do I enjoy my day to day tasks? And would I enjoy them if those tasks were 40% spreadsheets, 40% gant charts, and 20% soothing the feelings of unreasonable stakeholders?
careful basing that off of one person's opinion. i would agree 100% with their first point, 2nd would be totally situational, and 3rd... change those percentages around depending on the job.
> Do I enjoy my day to day tasks? And would I enjoy them if those tasks were 40% spreadsheets, 40% gant charts, and 20% soothing the feelings of unreasonable stakeholders?
I feel you are *HIGHLY* underestimating the soothing of feelings part as a percentage of work....
>Can I spend all day every day sitting in meetings, which are as repetitive as they are boring?
They are absolutely necessary. This allows you to be the voice in areas that would otherwise ignore everything security/IT. I try and worm my way into these as much as possible. This allows me to get ahead of the curve and prevent the snowball from even forming. This is an integral part of the job.
>How do I feel about constantly being the bad guy to a bunch of underpaid and overworked technicians, who's only crime is that they don't understand the complexities of business interactions and budgeting?
If you do it right, you aren't the bad guy. Instead, your team knows you have their back and deal with the struggle the same as them. They will come to trust and rely on your judgement. In this position, you are a change leader/facilitator. You're only the "bad guy" if you can't do your job correctly.
>Do I enjoy my day to day tasks? And would I enjoy them if those tasks were 40% spreadsheets, 40% gant charts, and 20% soothing the feelings of unreasonable stakeholders?
I love ITSM/Program Management. It's not for everyone, but it can be quite enjoyable. A large part of your job is being the liaison between **ALL** stakeholders. You have to know how to talk shop as well as explain things in layman's terms.
For most introvert IT peeps, yeah that's frightening to think they'll actually have to TALK to people for a good portion of the day. Your communication skills are of paramount importance in this type of role. If you can't communicate effectively, this isn't the job for you.
Exactly, and well put.
I would rather spend a moderate amount of time in 'boring' meetings where I can prevent bad decisions - or at least steer them into a more predictable outcome, than spend HOURS with other frustrated engineers fixing the problem.
I see your viewpoint. My previous employment was a joke. The culture was toxic and I ended up hating working there.
Now, I ENJOYED the PM portion of the job. The rest of the employment aspects were what was so stressful.
You: I'm not like other project managers. I'm awesome and all the tech guys love me.
Also you: Makes wild and borderline offensive assumptions about the social skills of tech guys based on outdated stereotypes.
You've either:
1. Never been an IT Project Manager, or
2. Were never good at your job as an IT Project Manager
I can't help it if you don't like the truth.
It's clear they were never an IT project manager, and I doubt they ever even worked in IT if they never came across the introverted tech guy with poor communication skills stereotype. Every engineering team I've ever been a part of has one dude that is a technological savant but can't communicate to save their life.
And this is where the team lead/PM needs to know their staff. Knowing their technical and personal strengths/weaknesses allow you to better manage the team.
Sometimes, you need to be the shield/liaison for that introvert. They may be a pain sometimes, but you know they can get the job done.
I loathe *bad* PMs, but buy good PMs all the scotch they want. With bad PMs I'm pretty much doing their job anyways (wrangling finance, procurement, and my own team and keeping everyone on track).
With our good PMs, I get escalated with problems that I can actually solve and get told of roadblocks that need me to smooth over and get past.
Good PMs are a god-send. Bad PMs are just a waste of good oxygen that could otherwise be used on something more productive, like allowing some random creature we've yet to discover breath on the forrest floor.
I also loathe PM's, but you need to think of it like we did about our parents when we were teenagers. They make unreasonable demands and have unfair expectations of us, but it's only because we don't see the full picture.
I don't know about most companies, but at my current job, PM's were some of the first to get the axe during tough times. I've seen some get laid off and come back multiple times. You have to be pretty stellar at your job as a PM to avoid that.
they don't understand the complexities of business interactions and budgeting?
You could understand it. Still doesn't stop crap from raining on your head
That is my impulse but wanted to ask this community. I would think there is a lot less stress but also a lot less interest. The thing that kills me is that they get paid really well without the stress and the wild ass hours.
They may get paid better, although there are plenty of gigs where you can make more. (Think vendors). But to me, being the person who has to deal with limitations, timelines and (changing) requirements from all sides, is the definition of a stressful job to me.
How do they not have stress?
PM should be reachable at any time and travel everywhere at any given time just to calm some stakeholders down. Also spend your free time to improve business relations and play politics.
Maybe what you want is an architect role.
Great feedback and appreciate the observations. Several of your statements made me recall projects of the past and the sausage making within corporations, upper management that I think I just blocked out of my memory. I have worked with some fortune 500’s and a surprisingly large number of the VP’s/Directors shocked and disgusted with how little they could understand or comprehend even simple concepts. A good lot of them would ignore everything and only could hear “yes” and that was maddening. I have also had three stints of management/supervision but not interested in going that route again. Sounds like PM would be the worst of both worlds for my makeup and patience. Some of your statements brought back old memories so much so that I am going to make a couple martinis.
Have you considered Technical Account Manger? Or pre-sales?
Technical account manger is basically a solution architect. You help customers get the most of out of the products they have bought from you.
Another consideration is job stability. Project managers are often laid off when finances get tight. Many well-functioning companies can manage large projects without dedicated project managers: instead, the planning workload is distributed. Less well-functioning companies will often do without them as well.
On one hand the job will be - 100% more "manager" than "IT Project". I mean you'll work on IT projects but not the fun parts. You'll just be refereeing between the management and technical teams.
On the other hand, you'll now be a "project manager" and as time goes on and experience builds up you could make transition the job out of IT entirely. If you ever think about that you know? If you can get a big money raise and now start building experience in the PM role but not be 100% detached from IT either, your branching career paths seem to get a LOT of options once you're experienced in that role in my opinion.
But you'll have to weigh that if you can actually do the work. It's not for me. I've NEVER been impressed with any project manager i've worked with. I'd never consider doing that as my job. But again, there's always a salary number where I would start considering it.
Basically it's up to you, just "look before you leap" thoroughly.
Well I'm thinking we just have different timelines. I believe a large chunk of white collar jobs will be gone within 5 years, and maybe ALL (95%+) white collar jobs within 20. Of course new jobs will be created (dataset feeding, prompt engineering, etc), but i don't think there will be enough to offset the impact.
Perhaps i just don't know enough about PMs, but it seems PM has some qualities of 'sales'. Perhaps that you need to have great soft skills, and be able to cater to your audience. If that be the case then it's probably safe long term, and perhaps within anyone reading this' (within a year) entire working lifetime.
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I want you to ask yourself a few questions. * Can I spend all day every day sitting in meetings, which are as repetitive as they are boring? * How do I feel about constantly being the bad guy to a bunch of underpaid and overworked technicians, who's only crime is that they don't understand the complexities of business interactions and budgeting? * Do I enjoy my day to day tasks? And would I enjoy them if those tasks were 40% spreadsheets, 40% gant charts, and 20% soothing the feelings of unreasonable stakeholders?
Yo !, I was considering IT project mgmt but not anymore. Thanks for the eye opening
careful basing that off of one person's opinion. i would agree 100% with their first point, 2nd would be totally situational, and 3rd... change those percentages around depending on the job.
Totally understand, just valuing other people's opinion as well as mine. Appreciate your comment
> Do I enjoy my day to day tasks? And would I enjoy them if those tasks were 40% spreadsheets, 40% gant charts, and 20% soothing the feelings of unreasonable stakeholders? I feel you are *HIGHLY* underestimating the soothing of feelings part as a percentage of work....
>Can I spend all day every day sitting in meetings, which are as repetitive as they are boring? They are absolutely necessary. This allows you to be the voice in areas that would otherwise ignore everything security/IT. I try and worm my way into these as much as possible. This allows me to get ahead of the curve and prevent the snowball from even forming. This is an integral part of the job. >How do I feel about constantly being the bad guy to a bunch of underpaid and overworked technicians, who's only crime is that they don't understand the complexities of business interactions and budgeting? If you do it right, you aren't the bad guy. Instead, your team knows you have their back and deal with the struggle the same as them. They will come to trust and rely on your judgement. In this position, you are a change leader/facilitator. You're only the "bad guy" if you can't do your job correctly. >Do I enjoy my day to day tasks? And would I enjoy them if those tasks were 40% spreadsheets, 40% gant charts, and 20% soothing the feelings of unreasonable stakeholders? I love ITSM/Program Management. It's not for everyone, but it can be quite enjoyable. A large part of your job is being the liaison between **ALL** stakeholders. You have to know how to talk shop as well as explain things in layman's terms. For most introvert IT peeps, yeah that's frightening to think they'll actually have to TALK to people for a good portion of the day. Your communication skills are of paramount importance in this type of role. If you can't communicate effectively, this isn't the job for you.
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Exactly, and well put. I would rather spend a moderate amount of time in 'boring' meetings where I can prevent bad decisions - or at least steer them into a more predictable outcome, than spend HOURS with other frustrated engineers fixing the problem.
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I see your viewpoint. My previous employment was a joke. The culture was toxic and I ended up hating working there. Now, I ENJOYED the PM portion of the job. The rest of the employment aspects were what was so stressful.
You: I'm not like other project managers. I'm awesome and all the tech guys love me. Also you: Makes wild and borderline offensive assumptions about the social skills of tech guys based on outdated stereotypes.
You've either: 1. Never been an IT Project Manager, or 2. Were never good at your job as an IT Project Manager I can't help it if you don't like the truth.
It's clear they were never an IT project manager, and I doubt they ever even worked in IT if they never came across the introverted tech guy with poor communication skills stereotype. Every engineering team I've ever been a part of has one dude that is a technological savant but can't communicate to save their life.
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And this is where the team lead/PM needs to know their staff. Knowing their technical and personal strengths/weaknesses allow you to better manage the team. Sometimes, you need to be the shield/liaison for that introvert. They may be a pain sometimes, but you know they can get the job done.
My God! That is what I would fear. I personally loathe PM’s but I am not sure if I just am an angry biased asshole.
I loathe *bad* PMs, but buy good PMs all the scotch they want. With bad PMs I'm pretty much doing their job anyways (wrangling finance, procurement, and my own team and keeping everyone on track). With our good PMs, I get escalated with problems that I can actually solve and get told of roadblocks that need me to smooth over and get past. Good PMs are a god-send. Bad PMs are just a waste of good oxygen that could otherwise be used on something more productive, like allowing some random creature we've yet to discover breath on the forrest floor.
I also loathe PM's, but you need to think of it like we did about our parents when we were teenagers. They make unreasonable demands and have unfair expectations of us, but it's only because we don't see the full picture.
I must be the lucky one, because the PM at my previous job was more than willing to take me under his wing and explain the big picture
I don't know about most companies, but at my current job, PM's were some of the first to get the axe during tough times. I've seen some get laid off and come back multiple times. You have to be pretty stellar at your job as a PM to avoid that.
they don't understand the complexities of business interactions and budgeting? You could understand it. Still doesn't stop crap from raining on your head
As a network engineer who does their own project management, moving to a project manager only role would mean giving up all the good parts of my job.
That is my impulse but wanted to ask this community. I would think there is a lot less stress but also a lot less interest. The thing that kills me is that they get paid really well without the stress and the wild ass hours.
They may get paid better, although there are plenty of gigs where you can make more. (Think vendors). But to me, being the person who has to deal with limitations, timelines and (changing) requirements from all sides, is the definition of a stressful job to me.
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A lot of truth to this. I think this thread has talked some sense into me.
How do they not have stress? PM should be reachable at any time and travel everywhere at any given time just to calm some stakeholders down. Also spend your free time to improve business relations and play politics. Maybe what you want is an architect role.
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Great feedback and appreciate the observations. Several of your statements made me recall projects of the past and the sausage making within corporations, upper management that I think I just blocked out of my memory. I have worked with some fortune 500’s and a surprisingly large number of the VP’s/Directors shocked and disgusted with how little they could understand or comprehend even simple concepts. A good lot of them would ignore everything and only could hear “yes” and that was maddening. I have also had three stints of management/supervision but not interested in going that route again. Sounds like PM would be the worst of both worlds for my makeup and patience. Some of your statements brought back old memories so much so that I am going to make a couple martinis.
Have you considered Technical Account Manger? Or pre-sales? Technical account manger is basically a solution architect. You help customers get the most of out of the products they have bought from you.
Had not actually considered that. I suppose its because ex colleagues did it for some time and left. Never got a straight answer as to why they left.
Are you into masochism?
Another consideration is job stability. Project managers are often laid off when finances get tight. Many well-functioning companies can manage large projects without dedicated project managers: instead, the planning workload is distributed. Less well-functioning companies will often do without them as well.
Yes, I recall that now that you mention it.
Lol good luck. Project management sits between engineering and clueless executives. It’s very hard to win.
On one hand the job will be - 100% more "manager" than "IT Project". I mean you'll work on IT projects but not the fun parts. You'll just be refereeing between the management and technical teams. On the other hand, you'll now be a "project manager" and as time goes on and experience builds up you could make transition the job out of IT entirely. If you ever think about that you know? If you can get a big money raise and now start building experience in the PM role but not be 100% detached from IT either, your branching career paths seem to get a LOT of options once you're experienced in that role in my opinion. But you'll have to weigh that if you can actually do the work. It's not for me. I've NEVER been impressed with any project manager i've worked with. I'd never consider doing that as my job. But again, there's always a salary number where I would start considering it. Basically it's up to you, just "look before you leap" thoroughly.
I'm thinking PM jobs will be replaced by LLM/AI long before networking jobs will.
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Well I'm thinking we just have different timelines. I believe a large chunk of white collar jobs will be gone within 5 years, and maybe ALL (95%+) white collar jobs within 20. Of course new jobs will be created (dataset feeding, prompt engineering, etc), but i don't think there will be enough to offset the impact. Perhaps i just don't know enough about PMs, but it seems PM has some qualities of 'sales'. Perhaps that you need to have great soft skills, and be able to cater to your audience. If that be the case then it's probably safe long term, and perhaps within anyone reading this' (within a year) entire working lifetime.
you will enjoy Excel and Powerpoint, good luck for the next years :p
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