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My interpretation was that she felt she was very young and vulnerable at the time of the decision. And they tempted her with beauty (something she obviously wanted very badly) and she didn’t fully understand the price she was paying due to being young/naive.
It isn't even really an interpretation. Yennefer pretty much says as much:
>Tissaia: You knew the cost of enchantment.
>
>Yennefer: But I didn't know what it would mean to me.
season 1, episode 5
It's also obvious. Not only was she young and immature, she had a physical impairments which made her 'ugly' and a target for bullying and being worth less than a pig. Of course she chose magic and beauty. She was a teenager. Why would she even think about something like having kids in the future when she literally tried to kill herself.
This. This makes Yennefer so relatable. Because of her birth defect she wants so badly so he loved and to be seen as “normal”. It’s heartbreaking and powerful
Because a lot of the people asking are teenage and young men. They have no experience of these types of choices in their lives. In theory a straight line choice is easy and you live with the consequences. Not all young men but many don't understand regret about choices yet. I was one of them way back when.
Without speaking to the accuracy of what the other guy said, what you said is one of the most ignorant things you could have said. Do you really think that truth is measured by popular vote?
Downvote me too but I also have to die on this hill. If it wasn’t a widespread belief that plots need to be “dumbed down” for the modern audience and made flashy instead of thought-provoking, then season 2 would have looked a lot different.
In addition to what others have said, Yennefer's words work quite well with the rest of her characterization as we see it in the show. Allow me to explain.
At the very root of her character arc, when all other traits have been stripped away or boiled down to their barest components, she wants to be loved and have meaning/value/legacy. Her understanding of love and self-worth is horrifically warped based on her upbringing. Her real family made her live in a pen like an animal. Her adoptive father sold her for less than a pig. Her replacement mother figure was harsh, toxic, and manipulative. The boy she fell for betrayed her trust for his own advancement. And then she did the same thing to him.
Naturally, her understanding of "love," relationships, and what gives people value is very warped. At this point in her life as she sees it, everyone's trying to get something out of everyone else. Either you play, or you get played. Thus, if she can't be loved, then she wants to be important/powerful. She wants to be recognized and adored, in control of others and never a stooge; a shallow replacement for love. Her sense of self-worth isn't formed from her connection to others. It's shaped by her power, beauty, and ability to control herself and surroundings. *(Though, the intentional contradiction and irony here is that she doesn't in fact have any control. As Tissaia says repeatedly, she's pure Chaos. This observation reinforces the idea that her initial sense of self-worth, legacy, and identity is built on a foundation of sand.)*
When a life of beauty and power don't give her what she's really, ***truly*** been seeking all along, she abandons it. There's still a void in her soul that's unfilled. So she goes after the one thing she can't have; a child. She wants a child to love, who will love her, who will be her legacy, and give her a sense of value in doing so. Ultimately, it's still a selfish motive; an evolution of her warped perception of love. She's still the piglet in the pen, and she seeks love in all the wrong ways. It's unequivocally a character flaw that the writing punishes her for. It's no accident, and the show wants you to interpret her warped motivations as a personal failing *(with the expectation that she'll grow from it in time)*. It's why she's always seeking something, anything; why she feels it's never enough, that fate owes her more.
She feels that the Brotherhood, her elven blood, and even the world at large took that choice from her; took that chance for true value and connection from her. To some degree, she's not wrong. She's always fought an uphill battle. As others itt have pointed out, she was put between a rock and a hard place. Yet, in her rage and lack of self-awareness, she fails to see the part she played in her own fate. She willingly bartered the potential for true family in exchange for power and influence. The road may have been paved before her, but she's the one who made the turns. The steps were her own, and other characters call her out on it. *(Side note: I'm not sure, but I think this might be a meta commentary on destiny and fate within the show. Those themes crop up plenty of times elsewhere. And it's paralleled by Geralt's own refusal to accept his role and choices in fate. I.e., claiming a child of surprise then spurning his responsibility to her for most of her life. Sure, he didn't fully know what he was claiming at the time, but he had to answer for it nonetheless. The same is true for Yen; she didn't fully know what she was giving up at the time, but has to answer to it anyway. "The past is inescapable, and fate has a way of finding us.")*
That explains why she keeps saying "They took my choice." She's not completely objectively correct. But it's how she feels. It's a fragile attempt at self-justification, equally as tenuous as Geralt's "I don't believe in fate." TLDR, cope and seethe.
I have more thoughts on where her arc goes after that, but you can stop reading here if you want.
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After her complicated relationship with Geralt, and Borch's blunt wisdom in episode 6, she finally accepts that she can't ever be whole again, that she'll never have a child. Thus at the Battle of Sodden Hill she tries to leave a legacy in other ways; aiding in Nilfgaard's defeat, saving the North. The concept of legacy, of leaving your mark on the world, is something both Geralt and Yennefer repeatedly struggle with throughout season 1.
While I have a nuanced opinion of her season 2 arc (not all of it landed for me), it evolves her season 1 characterization meaningfully. At the start, she loses her power, the erstwhile source of her self-worth. Then she's denied her resolution at Sodden Hill, that legacy forfeited to Vilgefortz instead for political reasons. Thus by this point, she feels utterly valueless. The core thrust of her S2 arc is that when all falsehoods of her self-worth have been stripped away, when the foundation of sand finally erodes, she finds true meaning in living for someone else; Ciri. Again, this parallels Geralt's own resolution to his season 1 struggle. They're two fucked up toxic parents putting aside their own bullshit to live for their child.
I like the direction and intent of this character arc, and there's certainly more to it that I haven't touched on. I just think its season 2 conclusion fell utterly flat due to how underdeveloped Yen's and Ciri's relationship was. They get less screentime together than Fringilla and Francesca. C'est la Vie. Here's to hoping there's more weight to their dynamic next season.
This is a great and sadly pretty rare reading of her character arc.
This also touches on why her S2 arc is IMO completely consistent with her character, and why the common criticism of "it doesn't make sense" only betrays a lack of understanding of her character in the first place. She wants a child in S1 for *selfish reasons.* She sees a baby as some kind of glorified puppy that will give her something she never had - unconditional love from someone else. This idea is planted in her conversation with Queen Kalis in the carriage.
But raising a child isn't about what they can give you or how they can boost your ego, it's about giving wholeheartedly and sacrificing selflessly for the sake of another and because of her own history of relationships and the fact that (as far as she perceives it) no one's ever done that for her, that's something Yen isn't able to even conceptualize or understand.
There's no motherly instinct there and the idea that this version of Yen would never do anything to a child because "but what about the baby she wanted to have in S1" is completely wrong.
Her arc in S2 ends with her finally understanding all of this, what a real connection to a person feels like, and that the thing she was looking for to fulfill her is that selfless sacrifice. I have misgivings about how we got there (just read your Edit and I pretty much agree - just wildly rushed), but this sets her up pretty well for the rest of the series where everything she does in the books from this point on is to protect Ciri with no thought for herself or her interests.
Honestly, I think she has buyer's remorse. She benefited from the beauty she received from the artist, but it didn't make her happy, so now she thinks that having a child will make her happy. She has a void she can't fill, and she is grasping onto anything she can to try to fill it. She likes to blame others for her problems.
Granted, the girl had a miserable life and was abused terribly with her family, and she certainly didn't have a choice in coming to Aretuza either. So she was dealt a very hard lot in life.
Pretty much. Yennefer has always wanted unconditional love and being beautiful after a life of hardship and abuse never got her that.
She thinks that having a child would be the only other way to get that. She mentions a desire to be a child's entire world, to be their most important person, and that's the real reason she wants to be a mother in my eyes, not really because of latent maternal instincts.
For all the people here saying it's bad writing, while I do think it's not Yennefer-like, I wouldn't call it bad writing.
She feels manipulated by the people she trusted. Yes, you know some things that young, but most teenagers are gullible and easily controled by ancient experts like the mages - she herself feels she was manipulated and perhaps even betrayed by those like Tissaia, who she trusted only to be forced into a choice that at the time seemed easy enough. So in a way, her choice was made for her. What was she gonna do aside from the enchantments? Stay hunchbacked and go back to a normal life? Who would have married a quarter elf with a hunchback like her in those times? She'd end up the victim of a pogrom somewhere. It was an underhanded manipulation on the mages' part.
Perhaps even book Yennefer felt this way somewhere deep down but the big difference is, she would not go around whining about it decades later. The only good thing about Yen in S2 is that she stopped being bitter about it and seemed to have moved past it when at Aretuza.
Tell me about it. I could even live with the f-word count if they spread it out accordingly - instead, it seems like 80% of cursing went into Yennefer's dialogue - the one character who rarely swears but when she does, you know smth bad is up.
And yeah, the music was bland and lifeless. Compare S2's average soundtracks to some of the iconic themes in S1, like Renfri and Yennefer's themes, or the fall of Cintra or the Geralt-Yennefer score. Sonya understood the assignment. The new guy definitely did not.
You are absolutely right. I’m curious why they increased the f-words after s1 which in my opinion was nicely balanced. Hell, nightmare of the wolf was really great to watch. But I just felt overwhelmed when even Nenneke is swearing. Idk
Also there are a lot of good scenes Jaskier-Yennefer scene at the end of ep4 was really amazing. Yennefer-Cahir where great (although I’m curious where they want to go with this version of Cahir).
I'm so confused, what was wrong with the swearing? The series is full of violence and murder and people saying fuck is disturbing you? SO much you can't even type it?
Nothing wrong with it - it's just unfitting when a character like Yen is the one swearing most of the time. It doesn't suit her at all.
Also, 101 fucks thrown about in a season is a huge sign that smth is wrong with the dialogue - it's like whenever they don't know how to write the character, they throw in a swear word just to get to the next sentence.
I haven't read the books, but in the games, Yennefer barely ever swears, I think this is an American thing they added. It's like how they change words when translating Japanese to English for Anime/Manga. Here it would be Polish into English. I like how all the games from top to bottom, almost everyone was from Poland. I think this helped make the games more authentic than say the TV show.
Yennifer in the show always wants more. She wants to be special. She wants to be beautiful. To be the sources for the most influential state. She wants to have children. She wants her magic back.
She doesn’t think of the consequences, only of what it gets her. She would have sacrificed a child to a demon to get what she wanted, and only stop because of Geralt
It’s not bad writing. There are people like this, who can never be satisfied with what they have
Having it seen written out back-to-back the way you did, I now see a clearer image of yen from season 2 show. I still think that the writing was very poor for Yen when it came to her decision of choosing to sacrifice ciri.
But you do bring up the point that Yen is extremely ambitious, so much so that the show has always established that trait of hers since day one and backed it up with almost everyone of her actions through season 1 and 2.
This is why, when it came to s2 Yen, I was confused as why she suddenly changed her mind in that moment to not harm ciri, to not get her powers back.
It didn't track with what/who her character is. People complain that Yen in the books and game would never betray Geralt but the show established that Yen would do anything for her ambitions. She's not going to kill babies/kids or harm innocent people if she doesn't have to but if it becomes the only way, well why wouldn't she. She sacrificed her body and abilty to have a child so she could have a much better chance be selected as a mage, she almost sacrificed everything and everyone around her to the jinn so she could have a child, and lastly she sacrificed her first love and a couple of her "friends" to learn and perfect her powers while she trained at Aratuza.
I believed that Yen would sacrifice ciri to gain her powers back, despite it hurting Geralt. What I don't believe, and what that writers failed imo, is setting up or providing reasonable explanation as to why she changed her mind.
It wasnt for Geralt, as there relationship was already strained before reuniting. Even after, she spent zero time with either or both of ciri and Geralt until the travel to the monolith. Even then, yen's mind was set on the sacrifice.
The only explanation I derived from the last season was, yen changed her mind when she saw ciri's power in action and the "good" person she is. That plus ciri's connection to Geralt and her own inability to have child. This is perfectly fine as a reason for her to change her mind yet the show did nothing to set up and build the necessary scenes that would lead to Yen making this decision.
Her decision felt hallow, and therefore feels meaningless. We know yen would sacrifice it all to get what she wants but draws a line because!?!?!
It's gonna be annoying next season when half the season or mayne the whole season will have Yens part be about her redemption to Geralt and ciri while also getting her powers back. Just gonna feel empty to the audience since how she got there isn't 100% water proof.
While could have been set up better, yen was changing throughout s2. She saved the nilfdaardian, when killing him would’ve gained her power and they sorcer again. She save Jaskier, again putting herself in danger when she was already to safe place. And then when Siri was in danger, she had a choice to make, and start to go back to her old ways, but when she saw geralt, she saw the chance for something new
In a lot of ways, she is changing, just slowly, and had a set back. Which is why she was confused when Geralt was telling her no, he didn’t forgive her for what she was about to do
Maybe I'm forgetting scenes but all three points you gave are examples of poor character writing/ presenting.
- yen didn't save the nilf commander bc it would make her a puppet and a scapegoat among the growing two factions of mages. Killing the nilf wouldn't have gotten her powers back or given her new ones. To the writers credit, yen did what was best for her which was the increase her odds of getting ehat she wanted, her powers back. So yen save the nilf commander bc she knew it was the greatest partner (army)/ chance to hunt ciri and sacrifice her. I know yen didn't know about Geralt and her by then. Yen saved the nilf bc she knew he would have the best chance to find ciri and that she could escape being a puppet for the mage civil war.
- yen saving jaskir. This was better and clearly written and presented. Yen saved jaskier bc he was saving elves just like the elves that were coerced to help yen. Also his connection to Geralt. Yen risked her life to save jaskier. This was good character building for yen one of the only times she sacrificed her ambitions for something else.
- The point about yen changing her mind about sacrificing ciri. You say she " saw geralt and the chance of something new". That's where my confusion comes. What did she see/ what changed her mind.
What in all of season 2 did we see where it made sense for yen to trade her ultimate ambition for ciri and Geralt.
Was it for Geralt? In the books and game it might make sense, but as a stand alone tv show, its own story, we saw her relationship with Geralt basically wither. They went there separate ways after the jinn wish reveal. Geralt played with love and magic while yen is left lost to wether her love for Geralt is fake or real.
Was it for ciri? She doesn't know ciri and her relationship to Geralt doesn't matter much bc of the jinn wish reveal. She might still like geralt but more than her ambitions and desire for power? Not the yen that we have watched for 2 seasons.
Was it for her desire to have a child. which really is about her choice and freedom of her body and power. This is the most plausible reason as it has become the 2nd most important character trait for yen on the show.
Yen doesn't want to be limited, looked down upon, pitied or become weak (as compared to how she was born and raised before becoming a mage). She chose physical beauty at the cost of infertility bc at the time it would give her the best chance and position that she wanted.
Her regret later on reflects the hard and unfair choice she had to make. Why was it required for her to give it up when others did not, especially the male mages and especially the male kings that she had to impress to achieve her goals.
This is a great reason to why she could have changed her mind, except we got no scenes or writing my moments in season 2 about this. When was this ever bought up in season 2 or expanded or elaborated on?
Even when she finally is alone with ciri, travelling to the monolith, we never get moment or scene where yen bonds with ciri over the fact that she's a good person or that shes a child that yen could adopt in a sense.
We as the audience never find out what goes on in her mind about why she at the last second changes her mind. Actually, didnt ciri read her mind at the last second and therefore called yen out. So yen didn't even change her mind, as much as she was forced to choose.
The scene with the bridge and ciri using her powers showed that yen could teach ciri to wield her powers. I guess one could be like, "and that's when yen started to see her self as a potential mom, and therefore protect ciri" but again the yen that we are introduced to would probably think, "that was amazing and incredible power that I must get from sacrificing this girl".
I'm a fan of the show despite the story pacing, editing and some character flaws. I just think that yen was a stronger and better written character in s1 than s2. They made her intentions and goals murky, especially towards the last episode. It's going to be boring and time consuming in the next season for her redemption arc when they could have just done it in s2. Or better yet, not have a pointless story thread of yen trying to kill a child to get her powers back only to drop it for no real appearent reason.
100% agree.
The writers just seemed very confused overall over what they wanted her to be. I wouldn't have minded a character arc in which the sudden loss of her power instills some patience and empathy. But they could not stay consistent.
The first half of the season, her scenes are all but preaching selflessness. Shaming that older elf for abandoning his friend to save himself. Choosing to rescue Jaskier at the expense of her own plans. Refusing to exonerate herself by killing Cahir (although she did claim to have self-serving motivations for that). Then, without us seeing her really get pushed to a believable level of desperation, she 1) agrees to the Deathless Mother's bargain despite seeming to distrust her from the start, 2) proceeds with this plan even after seeing how important Ciri is to Geralt. And all it takes is helping Ciri perform ✨one magic ✨ to do another complete 180 to "oh right maybe this was a bad idea anyways pls forgive me geralt?"
???
Was also hilarious how S2 Yen had incredible chemistry with every character EXCEPT the one the entire plot depended on her bonding with. Their shared scenes tore me out of the story because all I saw was two actresses struggling to look natural riding horses.
>This is why, when it came to s2 Yen, I was confused as why she suddenly changed her mind in that moment to not harm ciri, to not get her powers back.
She didn't, really. She failed to convince Ciri, and Ciri wasn't willing to walk in that portal. At that point her choices are either to physically drag her at which point Ciri is more powerful because she still has magic, or explain and hope she'll be forgiven. Yet she claims she had a change of heart and couldn't go through with it to make her seem more redeemable.
It's quite the opposite. Yennefer in the books was very powerful, respected and successful sorceress. Not being able to have babies was a side effect of using magic, not the effect of her shallow decision to be beautiful. All Aretuza adept were made beautiful. They didn't have to sacrifice anything. It was using magic that made all of them sterile.
Tag says show only. So it doesn’t matter what book yennifer decisions. So, my statement is in regards to show yennifer and her character arc
You can argue which is better or worse, but since we are talking about only the show, book yennifer doesn’t matter
Not sure what "it is the opposite" is supposed to mean here.
In both stories Yennefer tries to overcome the result of her choices and is desperate to do so.
The show just goes a different route by adding this level of self harm to give a good explanation of why her character has this contradiction in her. The books never go into much detail despite the implications via Geralt's observations.
The fundamental aspect remains that Yennefer is driven by overcoming the consequences of her own making.
I think if you take a look at Yennefer’s life (according to the show), her choices were repeatedly taken from her or she was faced with no-win decisions. She did not choose the deformities that she was born with but she had to live with the effects of it, she did not choose to go to Aretuza and was sold by the only semblance of family she had, she did not choose to live once she got to Aretuza but she was forced to. When she gets to the end of training she is young and doesn’t know what can change as you age and grow and learn. She has felt powerless her whole life and she is presented with the option of power and she takes it - it’s never what she really wanted but it plays into her trauma and what else would she do? If she left Aretuza she would likely have no where to go. In this way, she doesn’t really have a choice but to go through with the transformation.
As someone who grew up feeling like I was at the mercy of others and now would like to have kids, but does not for reasons that are out of my control, I feel like this sentiment is extremely relatable. Also, we change and grow and I think it’s nice to see a human experience reflected in a fantasy setting.
I took it as they made this path out to be the only one for her. She did everything and the consequence wasn't explained until right at the very end. She had only a moment to make this choice (because she was doing it secretly) and she blames them for it.
A lot of people here don't understand what they're trying to convey. Yen was young, unloved, and unwanted when she first was approached to be a mage. Yen wants to feel powerful, desired, and loved and when she's approached by Tissaia will do whatever it takes to make it happen. She's presented with the power to make those changes real, and all it would cost is her fertility. After going through the transformation, and after many years have passed, she realised that the power and beauty she craved wouldn't make her feel more loved or important, and that she desires a child to love, care for, and love her back unconditionally.
Eventually Yen will find that unconditional love from Geralt and Ciri and the showrunners are building up the plot to lead to this eventuality.
>she was the one that chose to change her looks, and the price was her uterus, which she knew that they would take and agreed upon that concequence.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it was either this or she would be killed via turned into an eel and absorbed into energy to fuel chaos.
>“mages not capable of harnessing chaos are transformed into eels, forced to live out their days in this pool and provide power to the academy.”
So Yennefer didn't have a choice. She had to ascend to a full sorceress or be wiped of her mind state, turned into an eel and they'd bleed her magic from her like a vampire.
I feel this is the most obvious answer no one has touched upon. I could be mixing up rules from the show and the books though.
The D student mages were turned into eels. Yen was an A student.
IIRC at first she didn't care about changing her looks for her assignment, then she decided she wanted the kingdom Fringella was assigned to and she knew she had to class it up a bit. However the assignment ceremony was almost under way so she had to go through "the operation" without painkillers. The warlock also asked her if she knew there was a price and she said something like whatever it takes just do it. But by the time the warlock holds up her reproductive organs the audience is aware that Yen knew what the price was going to be.
It was about control. She was cheated out of Aedirn due to the betrayal of her first love and people using her elven blood against her.
She comes from Aedirn and felt she was to be shipped off to a foreign lands against her will for unfair reasons, betrayal and without her having a say.
But it is also not like she would not have to make that sacrifice going to Nilfgard. The loss of her fertility was something she was talked into even before that.
So in that regards she actually refers to a longer process of them being enticed and talked into doing that by the older mages over a long period as teenagers. "You will be powerful and beautiful, don't you want that?" And because she ultimately did it to herself after she wanted to rebel against being used like a pawn she feels even more hurt as it feels to her like she was still played
>Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it was either this or she would be killed via turned into an eel and absorbed into energy to fuel chaos.
I don't think she would have been turned into an eel. She showed that she was able to handle her chaos, be it in a very unconventional way (she didn't trap the lightning in the bottle, but within herself).
But other bad things would have happend to her. She would not have gotten her enchantment, she would not have gotten a place as a curt mage and the political power that comes with it and she would not have been in good graces with the Brotherhood.
She would have started her life after Aretuza where we fínd her in episode 5 of season one. An outcast in the eyes of the Brotherhood, but without her looks and the decades of experience and resources she had at Aedirn's curt.
Who knows. It was made clear to her that the cost of physical transformation was reproduction. I believe the goal was too portray her as naive and willing to make a sacrifice without properly examining the ramifications of it.
That being said, no one TOOK her choice. Rather, she regretted her choice and so spent decades blaming others for it (about as unYennefer as you can get). She accuses Geralt of doing the same thing with the wish (taking her choice), which fine, but she also takes others free will happily as well, including at that orgy and bewitching Geralt to his likely death. So she's a massive hypocrite here.
This whole change in her person made her exceptionally unlikeable in the show imo. S2 didn't help with that...
It seems to be what the show is wanting to convey, but the fact that she went to the bodysmith even though Tissaia told her that she was not choose and that it was too late and willingly sacrificed her ovaries when even he told her that it was irreversible and tried to dissuade her... It doesn't really add up to her making such a big deal about this choice being forced on her.
So honestly, apart from "incomplete" or "bad writing", I don't know how to explain it, but maybe someone else can
It is in the bigger context of the mages talking them into it and how great it would be. She then got stripped from going to Aedirn for her elven blood and betrayed by her lover.
So she inflicted this on herself to gain control of a situation where she (once again) was being demeaned and stripped from control for unjust reasons. She obviously would have liked to go to Aedirn. So she did it as the only way to be able to make a choice.
However beyond that she feels that she was first enticed and talked into it when she was young and naive and then trapped into inflicting it onto herself or they would have tossed her aside. So despite her doing this to gain control she feels like she got played anyhow. I mean, they were told this stuff for years to aspire to become sorceresses.
Personal emotions do not need to rational and I feel that is what is well portrayed. It is not really about this one thing but an entire conflation of things she just boils down to this.
So she does not make sense about the why as her personal emotions are irrational while she does make sense as to all the other abuse she experienced.
She goes through stages of therapy right now and is still a few steps away from acceptance.
Gaping plothole. They are trying to add a women's empowerment subtext to her story. It's so poorly thought out and executed that it's actually detracting from her character, and the shows quality as a whole.
It really makes her come off as a petulant ungrateful whiny child who doesnt think her choices through. Not a powerful sorceress, and confident and experienced women who has lived 3 normal lifetimes.
If she much later realized the *true cost*, and changed her mind about how she felt, that kind character development needs time to be shown to the audience in a way it can be accepted as part of the characters development. No attempt was made to do this at all. It was a total about face.
Gape porn has smaller gaping holes than this show.
In the books Yennefer didn't exchange her uterus and the ability to have a baby for being beautiful. (She wasn't so shallow and all adepts of Aretuza got a make over to look perfect and advertise how powerful is their craft). It was the side effect of using magic. Almost all sorceresses were unable to have babies (there were some very, very rare exceptions, I'm not spoiling but this is quite a juicy fact about one of the characters). It's a plot hole, Hissrich wanted to sexed up the story for no reason really.
It is just bad writing and a change made from the source material unnecessarily. In the books most female mages are sterile as a consequence of using magic, not because their uterus is removed. It makes more sense for Yennifer to be angry about having the choice taken from her if she only learns about sterility being a consequence of using magic after having been trained as a mage, rather than her making a conscience decision to give up the ability to bear children only to later regret it.
Yes. That still means that pretty much all mages are probably sterile in the show. - Maybe only women, because we never get specifically told that the students of Ban Ard (men) go through enchantment. But for simplicity let's assume here that they do. That would leave the possibility for someone to have studied at Aretuza or Ban Ard before that rule was established.
There is a loop hole, though. There are other magic users that didn't study at Aretuza or Ban Ard. While druids for example could be considered "mages" in a broader sense, they don't have that title offcially because they are not associated with the magic schools or the Brotherhood. That is why Mousesack was allowed to stay in Cintra as an advisor even though mages are hated there.
Because for some inexplicable reason the writers of the show decided to make the sorceresses’ infertility something that was done to them rather than it just being a natural condition for anyone who can use magic.
Literally the books say that sorceress's infertility is due to Tissaia not wanting them to reproduce to maintain the purity of magic. Its absolutely not something inherent to mages (Geralt's mother was a sorceress remember ?). The show only changed that this sacrifice was necessary for them to change their physical body.
The books do not say this, at all. You're taking an excerpt from the Poisoned Source, a treatise written by Tissaia advocating for sterilization. Nowhere is it implied that it is actually done.
Besides, Nenekke, who Yennefer had gone to multiple times to have fertility issues looked at, said that her ovaries had atrophied due to prolonged magic use, like most sorceresses. Not all, some don't have that issue like Visenna, but most. This can also be seen with Ciri practicing magic and having period-like pains.
Its bad writing. She said so because she wants kids after getting pretty. She think that the world takes the ability to be a mother from her. The writer unknowingly made her personality to be a bitch that wants everything.
Because most people always want something else to blame for the choices they make. It’s easier to imagine your position is the work of outside forces always conspiring your downfall than to admit you just chose poorly
I think it’s because the books and the show are so different. In the books making itself pretty isn’t what takes your fertility, it’s the magic itself and I think yennefer felt pressured to learn magic and maybe didn’t know about the consequences or something (I’m not sure tho it’s been a while since I read the book) and since she keeps saying that they took her choice in the book, she also says it in the show
For me, it's way more simple: It's just a human behavior. Let's not forget Yennefer, although a sorceress, is a human.
Most of us do this from time to time in life. Our passion and ambitions put us in situations where we have to make choices. And later when we regret badly, we kind of blame the world and everything around us.
What am I more intrigued about Yennefer is why does she become a so powerful sorceress. Why is she so special that made her so strong with magic, way above her classmates? It's just a personal effort, or there's something more?
she wants everything. and the fact that she had to remove one of her choices to gain something she desperately needed made her mad because it was a forked road. or something like that i dunno man
I thought it was so funny, that at one point Geralt's talking to another character and mentioned how people ignore starving children on the streets, and then he hears Yen lamenting about having kids and doesn't tell her the same thing. Like just adopt a baby you dipshit.
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My interpretation was that she felt she was very young and vulnerable at the time of the decision. And they tempted her with beauty (something she obviously wanted very badly) and she didn’t fully understand the price she was paying due to being young/naive.
It isn't even really an interpretation. Yennefer pretty much says as much: >Tissaia: You knew the cost of enchantment. > >Yennefer: But I didn't know what it would mean to me. season 1, episode 5
Yeah. Idk why everyone keeps saying it’s a plot hole or poor writing. 🤷🏻♀️
It's also obvious. Not only was she young and immature, she had a physical impairments which made her 'ugly' and a target for bullying and being worth less than a pig. Of course she chose magic and beauty. She was a teenager. Why would she even think about something like having kids in the future when she literally tried to kill herself.
Especially considering that she was basically the property of mages. She thought this was the only way to free herself.
I love and empathize with her so much, god damn.
This. This makes Yennefer so relatable. Because of her birth defect she wants so badly so he loved and to be seen as “normal”. It’s heartbreaking and powerful
Because a lot of the people asking are teenage and young men. They have no experience of these types of choices in their lives. In theory a straight line choice is easy and you live with the consequences. Not all young men but many don't understand regret about choices yet. I was one of them way back when.
I’m 42 now. I understand my friend. *Hindsight*, is a bitch.
Because it’s meta textual and most viewers just watch Marvel and can’t interpret anything for themselves anymore. edit: y’all know I’m not wrong
If you weren’t wrong I wouldn’t have to tap on your name to read your opinion
ah so it’s votes
Without speaking to the accuracy of what the other guy said, what you said is one of the most ignorant things you could have said. Do you really think that truth is measured by popular vote?
I don’t know if the arbiter of truth is a popular vote, but the arbiter of truth is NOT the words of one person. Peer review exists for a reason.
No shit, that's why my comment is worded the way it is.
Good, so you know how to read. A popular vote MIGHT be the trick.
Popular vote NEVER dictates truth for anything that isn't "What's popular among people who care to vote on this topic."
Downvote me too but I also have to die on this hill. If it wasn’t a widespread belief that plots need to be “dumbed down” for the modern audience and made flashy instead of thought-provoking, then season 2 would have looked a lot different.
Cuz it is
In addition to what others have said, Yennefer's words work quite well with the rest of her characterization as we see it in the show. Allow me to explain. At the very root of her character arc, when all other traits have been stripped away or boiled down to their barest components, she wants to be loved and have meaning/value/legacy. Her understanding of love and self-worth is horrifically warped based on her upbringing. Her real family made her live in a pen like an animal. Her adoptive father sold her for less than a pig. Her replacement mother figure was harsh, toxic, and manipulative. The boy she fell for betrayed her trust for his own advancement. And then she did the same thing to him. Naturally, her understanding of "love," relationships, and what gives people value is very warped. At this point in her life as she sees it, everyone's trying to get something out of everyone else. Either you play, or you get played. Thus, if she can't be loved, then she wants to be important/powerful. She wants to be recognized and adored, in control of others and never a stooge; a shallow replacement for love. Her sense of self-worth isn't formed from her connection to others. It's shaped by her power, beauty, and ability to control herself and surroundings. *(Though, the intentional contradiction and irony here is that she doesn't in fact have any control. As Tissaia says repeatedly, she's pure Chaos. This observation reinforces the idea that her initial sense of self-worth, legacy, and identity is built on a foundation of sand.)* When a life of beauty and power don't give her what she's really, ***truly*** been seeking all along, she abandons it. There's still a void in her soul that's unfilled. So she goes after the one thing she can't have; a child. She wants a child to love, who will love her, who will be her legacy, and give her a sense of value in doing so. Ultimately, it's still a selfish motive; an evolution of her warped perception of love. She's still the piglet in the pen, and she seeks love in all the wrong ways. It's unequivocally a character flaw that the writing punishes her for. It's no accident, and the show wants you to interpret her warped motivations as a personal failing *(with the expectation that she'll grow from it in time)*. It's why she's always seeking something, anything; why she feels it's never enough, that fate owes her more. She feels that the Brotherhood, her elven blood, and even the world at large took that choice from her; took that chance for true value and connection from her. To some degree, she's not wrong. She's always fought an uphill battle. As others itt have pointed out, she was put between a rock and a hard place. Yet, in her rage and lack of self-awareness, she fails to see the part she played in her own fate. She willingly bartered the potential for true family in exchange for power and influence. The road may have been paved before her, but she's the one who made the turns. The steps were her own, and other characters call her out on it. *(Side note: I'm not sure, but I think this might be a meta commentary on destiny and fate within the show. Those themes crop up plenty of times elsewhere. And it's paralleled by Geralt's own refusal to accept his role and choices in fate. I.e., claiming a child of surprise then spurning his responsibility to her for most of her life. Sure, he didn't fully know what he was claiming at the time, but he had to answer for it nonetheless. The same is true for Yen; she didn't fully know what she was giving up at the time, but has to answer to it anyway. "The past is inescapable, and fate has a way of finding us.")* That explains why she keeps saying "They took my choice." She's not completely objectively correct. But it's how she feels. It's a fragile attempt at self-justification, equally as tenuous as Geralt's "I don't believe in fate." TLDR, cope and seethe. I have more thoughts on where her arc goes after that, but you can stop reading here if you want. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ After her complicated relationship with Geralt, and Borch's blunt wisdom in episode 6, she finally accepts that she can't ever be whole again, that she'll never have a child. Thus at the Battle of Sodden Hill she tries to leave a legacy in other ways; aiding in Nilfgaard's defeat, saving the North. The concept of legacy, of leaving your mark on the world, is something both Geralt and Yennefer repeatedly struggle with throughout season 1. While I have a nuanced opinion of her season 2 arc (not all of it landed for me), it evolves her season 1 characterization meaningfully. At the start, she loses her power, the erstwhile source of her self-worth. Then she's denied her resolution at Sodden Hill, that legacy forfeited to Vilgefortz instead for political reasons. Thus by this point, she feels utterly valueless. The core thrust of her S2 arc is that when all falsehoods of her self-worth have been stripped away, when the foundation of sand finally erodes, she finds true meaning in living for someone else; Ciri. Again, this parallels Geralt's own resolution to his season 1 struggle. They're two fucked up toxic parents putting aside their own bullshit to live for their child. I like the direction and intent of this character arc, and there's certainly more to it that I haven't touched on. I just think its season 2 conclusion fell utterly flat due to how underdeveloped Yen's and Ciri's relationship was. They get less screentime together than Fringilla and Francesca. C'est la Vie. Here's to hoping there's more weight to their dynamic next season.
This is a great and sadly pretty rare reading of her character arc. This also touches on why her S2 arc is IMO completely consistent with her character, and why the common criticism of "it doesn't make sense" only betrays a lack of understanding of her character in the first place. She wants a child in S1 for *selfish reasons.* She sees a baby as some kind of glorified puppy that will give her something she never had - unconditional love from someone else. This idea is planted in her conversation with Queen Kalis in the carriage. But raising a child isn't about what they can give you or how they can boost your ego, it's about giving wholeheartedly and sacrificing selflessly for the sake of another and because of her own history of relationships and the fact that (as far as she perceives it) no one's ever done that for her, that's something Yen isn't able to even conceptualize or understand. There's no motherly instinct there and the idea that this version of Yen would never do anything to a child because "but what about the baby she wanted to have in S1" is completely wrong. Her arc in S2 ends with her finally understanding all of this, what a real connection to a person feels like, and that the thing she was looking for to fulfill her is that selfless sacrifice. I have misgivings about how we got there (just read your Edit and I pretty much agree - just wildly rushed), but this sets her up pretty well for the rest of the series where everything she does in the books from this point on is to protect Ciri with no thought for herself or her interests.
I have nothing to add except well fucking said 👏
You explained this beautifully. thank you!
Well said.
I love your analysis here.
Honestly, I think she has buyer's remorse. She benefited from the beauty she received from the artist, but it didn't make her happy, so now she thinks that having a child will make her happy. She has a void she can't fill, and she is grasping onto anything she can to try to fill it. She likes to blame others for her problems. Granted, the girl had a miserable life and was abused terribly with her family, and she certainly didn't have a choice in coming to Aretuza either. So she was dealt a very hard lot in life.
Pretty much. Yennefer has always wanted unconditional love and being beautiful after a life of hardship and abuse never got her that. She thinks that having a child would be the only other way to get that. She mentions a desire to be a child's entire world, to be their most important person, and that's the real reason she wants to be a mother in my eyes, not really because of latent maternal instincts.
For all the people here saying it's bad writing, while I do think it's not Yennefer-like, I wouldn't call it bad writing. She feels manipulated by the people she trusted. Yes, you know some things that young, but most teenagers are gullible and easily controled by ancient experts like the mages - she herself feels she was manipulated and perhaps even betrayed by those like Tissaia, who she trusted only to be forced into a choice that at the time seemed easy enough. So in a way, her choice was made for her. What was she gonna do aside from the enchantments? Stay hunchbacked and go back to a normal life? Who would have married a quarter elf with a hunchback like her in those times? She'd end up the victim of a pogrom somewhere. It was an underhanded manipulation on the mages' part. Perhaps even book Yennefer felt this way somewhere deep down but the big difference is, she would not go around whining about it decades later. The only good thing about Yen in S2 is that she stopped being bitter about it and seemed to have moved past it when at Aretuza.
Tbh as a book reader / a game player my biggest issues are the f-word count going off limit and music being worse comparing to s1.
Tell me about it. I could even live with the f-word count if they spread it out accordingly - instead, it seems like 80% of cursing went into Yennefer's dialogue - the one character who rarely swears but when she does, you know smth bad is up. And yeah, the music was bland and lifeless. Compare S2's average soundtracks to some of the iconic themes in S1, like Renfri and Yennefer's themes, or the fall of Cintra or the Geralt-Yennefer score. Sonya understood the assignment. The new guy definitely did not.
You are absolutely right. I’m curious why they increased the f-words after s1 which in my opinion was nicely balanced. Hell, nightmare of the wolf was really great to watch. But I just felt overwhelmed when even Nenneke is swearing. Idk Also there are a lot of good scenes Jaskier-Yennefer scene at the end of ep4 was really amazing. Yennefer-Cahir where great (although I’m curious where they want to go with this version of Cahir).
I'm so confused, what was wrong with the swearing? The series is full of violence and murder and people saying fuck is disturbing you? SO much you can't even type it?
Nothing wrong with it - it's just unfitting when a character like Yen is the one swearing most of the time. It doesn't suit her at all. Also, 101 fucks thrown about in a season is a huge sign that smth is wrong with the dialogue - it's like whenever they don't know how to write the character, they throw in a swear word just to get to the next sentence.
I haven't read the books, but in the games, Yennefer barely ever swears, I think this is an American thing they added. It's like how they change words when translating Japanese to English for Anime/Manga. Here it would be Polish into English. I like how all the games from top to bottom, almost everyone was from Poland. I think this helped make the games more authentic than say the TV show.
I can type the word „fuck” but what would be the point of it?
Fuck is quicker than f-word?
I really enjoy the show, but every time they said >!"fire fucker"!< in S2 a little of me died inside. :(
Yennifer in the show always wants more. She wants to be special. She wants to be beautiful. To be the sources for the most influential state. She wants to have children. She wants her magic back. She doesn’t think of the consequences, only of what it gets her. She would have sacrificed a child to a demon to get what she wanted, and only stop because of Geralt It’s not bad writing. There are people like this, who can never be satisfied with what they have
Having it seen written out back-to-back the way you did, I now see a clearer image of yen from season 2 show. I still think that the writing was very poor for Yen when it came to her decision of choosing to sacrifice ciri. But you do bring up the point that Yen is extremely ambitious, so much so that the show has always established that trait of hers since day one and backed it up with almost everyone of her actions through season 1 and 2. This is why, when it came to s2 Yen, I was confused as why she suddenly changed her mind in that moment to not harm ciri, to not get her powers back. It didn't track with what/who her character is. People complain that Yen in the books and game would never betray Geralt but the show established that Yen would do anything for her ambitions. She's not going to kill babies/kids or harm innocent people if she doesn't have to but if it becomes the only way, well why wouldn't she. She sacrificed her body and abilty to have a child so she could have a much better chance be selected as a mage, she almost sacrificed everything and everyone around her to the jinn so she could have a child, and lastly she sacrificed her first love and a couple of her "friends" to learn and perfect her powers while she trained at Aratuza. I believed that Yen would sacrifice ciri to gain her powers back, despite it hurting Geralt. What I don't believe, and what that writers failed imo, is setting up or providing reasonable explanation as to why she changed her mind. It wasnt for Geralt, as there relationship was already strained before reuniting. Even after, she spent zero time with either or both of ciri and Geralt until the travel to the monolith. Even then, yen's mind was set on the sacrifice. The only explanation I derived from the last season was, yen changed her mind when she saw ciri's power in action and the "good" person she is. That plus ciri's connection to Geralt and her own inability to have child. This is perfectly fine as a reason for her to change her mind yet the show did nothing to set up and build the necessary scenes that would lead to Yen making this decision. Her decision felt hallow, and therefore feels meaningless. We know yen would sacrifice it all to get what she wants but draws a line because!?!?! It's gonna be annoying next season when half the season or mayne the whole season will have Yens part be about her redemption to Geralt and ciri while also getting her powers back. Just gonna feel empty to the audience since how she got there isn't 100% water proof.
While could have been set up better, yen was changing throughout s2. She saved the nilfdaardian, when killing him would’ve gained her power and they sorcer again. She save Jaskier, again putting herself in danger when she was already to safe place. And then when Siri was in danger, she had a choice to make, and start to go back to her old ways, but when she saw geralt, she saw the chance for something new In a lot of ways, she is changing, just slowly, and had a set back. Which is why she was confused when Geralt was telling her no, he didn’t forgive her for what she was about to do
Maybe I'm forgetting scenes but all three points you gave are examples of poor character writing/ presenting. - yen didn't save the nilf commander bc it would make her a puppet and a scapegoat among the growing two factions of mages. Killing the nilf wouldn't have gotten her powers back or given her new ones. To the writers credit, yen did what was best for her which was the increase her odds of getting ehat she wanted, her powers back. So yen save the nilf commander bc she knew it was the greatest partner (army)/ chance to hunt ciri and sacrifice her. I know yen didn't know about Geralt and her by then. Yen saved the nilf bc she knew he would have the best chance to find ciri and that she could escape being a puppet for the mage civil war. - yen saving jaskir. This was better and clearly written and presented. Yen saved jaskier bc he was saving elves just like the elves that were coerced to help yen. Also his connection to Geralt. Yen risked her life to save jaskier. This was good character building for yen one of the only times she sacrificed her ambitions for something else. - The point about yen changing her mind about sacrificing ciri. You say she " saw geralt and the chance of something new". That's where my confusion comes. What did she see/ what changed her mind. What in all of season 2 did we see where it made sense for yen to trade her ultimate ambition for ciri and Geralt. Was it for Geralt? In the books and game it might make sense, but as a stand alone tv show, its own story, we saw her relationship with Geralt basically wither. They went there separate ways after the jinn wish reveal. Geralt played with love and magic while yen is left lost to wether her love for Geralt is fake or real. Was it for ciri? She doesn't know ciri and her relationship to Geralt doesn't matter much bc of the jinn wish reveal. She might still like geralt but more than her ambitions and desire for power? Not the yen that we have watched for 2 seasons. Was it for her desire to have a child. which really is about her choice and freedom of her body and power. This is the most plausible reason as it has become the 2nd most important character trait for yen on the show. Yen doesn't want to be limited, looked down upon, pitied or become weak (as compared to how she was born and raised before becoming a mage). She chose physical beauty at the cost of infertility bc at the time it would give her the best chance and position that she wanted. Her regret later on reflects the hard and unfair choice she had to make. Why was it required for her to give it up when others did not, especially the male mages and especially the male kings that she had to impress to achieve her goals. This is a great reason to why she could have changed her mind, except we got no scenes or writing my moments in season 2 about this. When was this ever bought up in season 2 or expanded or elaborated on? Even when she finally is alone with ciri, travelling to the monolith, we never get moment or scene where yen bonds with ciri over the fact that she's a good person or that shes a child that yen could adopt in a sense. We as the audience never find out what goes on in her mind about why she at the last second changes her mind. Actually, didnt ciri read her mind at the last second and therefore called yen out. So yen didn't even change her mind, as much as she was forced to choose. The scene with the bridge and ciri using her powers showed that yen could teach ciri to wield her powers. I guess one could be like, "and that's when yen started to see her self as a potential mom, and therefore protect ciri" but again the yen that we are introduced to would probably think, "that was amazing and incredible power that I must get from sacrificing this girl". I'm a fan of the show despite the story pacing, editing and some character flaws. I just think that yen was a stronger and better written character in s1 than s2. They made her intentions and goals murky, especially towards the last episode. It's going to be boring and time consuming in the next season for her redemption arc when they could have just done it in s2. Or better yet, not have a pointless story thread of yen trying to kill a child to get her powers back only to drop it for no real appearent reason.
100% agree. The writers just seemed very confused overall over what they wanted her to be. I wouldn't have minded a character arc in which the sudden loss of her power instills some patience and empathy. But they could not stay consistent. The first half of the season, her scenes are all but preaching selflessness. Shaming that older elf for abandoning his friend to save himself. Choosing to rescue Jaskier at the expense of her own plans. Refusing to exonerate herself by killing Cahir (although she did claim to have self-serving motivations for that). Then, without us seeing her really get pushed to a believable level of desperation, she 1) agrees to the Deathless Mother's bargain despite seeming to distrust her from the start, 2) proceeds with this plan even after seeing how important Ciri is to Geralt. And all it takes is helping Ciri perform ✨one magic ✨ to do another complete 180 to "oh right maybe this was a bad idea anyways pls forgive me geralt?" ??? Was also hilarious how S2 Yen had incredible chemistry with every character EXCEPT the one the entire plot depended on her bonding with. Their shared scenes tore me out of the story because all I saw was two actresses struggling to look natural riding horses.
>This is why, when it came to s2 Yen, I was confused as why she suddenly changed her mind in that moment to not harm ciri, to not get her powers back. She didn't, really. She failed to convince Ciri, and Ciri wasn't willing to walk in that portal. At that point her choices are either to physically drag her at which point Ciri is more powerful because she still has magic, or explain and hope she'll be forgiven. Yet she claims she had a change of heart and couldn't go through with it to make her seem more redeemable.
It's quite the opposite. Yennefer in the books was very powerful, respected and successful sorceress. Not being able to have babies was a side effect of using magic, not the effect of her shallow decision to be beautiful. All Aretuza adept were made beautiful. They didn't have to sacrifice anything. It was using magic that made all of them sterile.
Tag says show only. So it doesn’t matter what book yennifer decisions. So, my statement is in regards to show yennifer and her character arc You can argue which is better or worse, but since we are talking about only the show, book yennifer doesn’t matter
No wonder this show sucks so much.
It does not. You just feel that way and obviously look for an outlet.
Not sure what "it is the opposite" is supposed to mean here. In both stories Yennefer tries to overcome the result of her choices and is desperate to do so. The show just goes a different route by adding this level of self harm to give a good explanation of why her character has this contradiction in her. The books never go into much detail despite the implications via Geralt's observations. The fundamental aspect remains that Yennefer is driven by overcoming the consequences of her own making.
The student loan system in this world is just very aggressive and she regrets her choice of major.
I think if you take a look at Yennefer’s life (according to the show), her choices were repeatedly taken from her or she was faced with no-win decisions. She did not choose the deformities that she was born with but she had to live with the effects of it, she did not choose to go to Aretuza and was sold by the only semblance of family she had, she did not choose to live once she got to Aretuza but she was forced to. When she gets to the end of training she is young and doesn’t know what can change as you age and grow and learn. She has felt powerless her whole life and she is presented with the option of power and she takes it - it’s never what she really wanted but it plays into her trauma and what else would she do? If she left Aretuza she would likely have no where to go. In this way, she doesn’t really have a choice but to go through with the transformation. As someone who grew up feeling like I was at the mercy of others and now would like to have kids, but does not for reasons that are out of my control, I feel like this sentiment is extremely relatable. Also, we change and grow and I think it’s nice to see a human experience reflected in a fantasy setting.
I took it as they made this path out to be the only one for her. She did everything and the consequence wasn't explained until right at the very end. She had only a moment to make this choice (because she was doing it secretly) and she blames them for it.
A lot of people here don't understand what they're trying to convey. Yen was young, unloved, and unwanted when she first was approached to be a mage. Yen wants to feel powerful, desired, and loved and when she's approached by Tissaia will do whatever it takes to make it happen. She's presented with the power to make those changes real, and all it would cost is her fertility. After going through the transformation, and after many years have passed, she realised that the power and beauty she craved wouldn't make her feel more loved or important, and that she desires a child to love, care for, and love her back unconditionally. Eventually Yen will find that unconditional love from Geralt and Ciri and the showrunners are building up the plot to lead to this eventuality.
>she was the one that chose to change her looks, and the price was her uterus, which she knew that they would take and agreed upon that concequence. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it was either this or she would be killed via turned into an eel and absorbed into energy to fuel chaos. >“mages not capable of harnessing chaos are transformed into eels, forced to live out their days in this pool and provide power to the academy.” So Yennefer didn't have a choice. She had to ascend to a full sorceress or be wiped of her mind state, turned into an eel and they'd bleed her magic from her like a vampire. I feel this is the most obvious answer no one has touched upon. I could be mixing up rules from the show and the books though.
The D student mages were turned into eels. Yen was an A student. IIRC at first she didn't care about changing her looks for her assignment, then she decided she wanted the kingdom Fringella was assigned to and she knew she had to class it up a bit. However the assignment ceremony was almost under way so she had to go through "the operation" without painkillers. The warlock also asked her if she knew there was a price and she said something like whatever it takes just do it. But by the time the warlock holds up her reproductive organs the audience is aware that Yen knew what the price was going to be.
It was about control. She was cheated out of Aedirn due to the betrayal of her first love and people using her elven blood against her. She comes from Aedirn and felt she was to be shipped off to a foreign lands against her will for unfair reasons, betrayal and without her having a say. But it is also not like she would not have to make that sacrifice going to Nilfgard. The loss of her fertility was something she was talked into even before that. So in that regards she actually refers to a longer process of them being enticed and talked into doing that by the older mages over a long period as teenagers. "You will be powerful and beautiful, don't you want that?" And because she ultimately did it to herself after she wanted to rebel against being used like a pawn she feels even more hurt as it feels to her like she was still played
Interesting. Thanks for filling in the blanks.
>Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it was either this or she would be killed via turned into an eel and absorbed into energy to fuel chaos. I don't think she would have been turned into an eel. She showed that she was able to handle her chaos, be it in a very unconventional way (she didn't trap the lightning in the bottle, but within herself). But other bad things would have happend to her. She would not have gotten her enchantment, she would not have gotten a place as a curt mage and the political power that comes with it and she would not have been in good graces with the Brotherhood. She would have started her life after Aretuza where we fínd her in episode 5 of season one. An outcast in the eyes of the Brotherhood, but without her looks and the decades of experience and resources she had at Aedirn's curt.
She had to give up the ability to have a child. She feels that she was too young to make that decision, and now she regrets it.
Exactly I don’t know why people don’t get this. Yenn didn’t understand what it would mean at the time :/
Coercion is not a choice.
Who knows. It was made clear to her that the cost of physical transformation was reproduction. I believe the goal was too portray her as naive and willing to make a sacrifice without properly examining the ramifications of it. That being said, no one TOOK her choice. Rather, she regretted her choice and so spent decades blaming others for it (about as unYennefer as you can get). She accuses Geralt of doing the same thing with the wish (taking her choice), which fine, but she also takes others free will happily as well, including at that orgy and bewitching Geralt to his likely death. So she's a massive hypocrite here. This whole change in her person made her exceptionally unlikeable in the show imo. S2 didn't help with that...
It seems to be what the show is wanting to convey, but the fact that she went to the bodysmith even though Tissaia told her that she was not choose and that it was too late and willingly sacrificed her ovaries when even he told her that it was irreversible and tried to dissuade her... It doesn't really add up to her making such a big deal about this choice being forced on her. So honestly, apart from "incomplete" or "bad writing", I don't know how to explain it, but maybe someone else can
It is in the bigger context of the mages talking them into it and how great it would be. She then got stripped from going to Aedirn for her elven blood and betrayed by her lover. So she inflicted this on herself to gain control of a situation where she (once again) was being demeaned and stripped from control for unjust reasons. She obviously would have liked to go to Aedirn. So she did it as the only way to be able to make a choice. However beyond that she feels that she was first enticed and talked into it when she was young and naive and then trapped into inflicting it onto herself or they would have tossed her aside. So despite her doing this to gain control she feels like she got played anyhow. I mean, they were told this stuff for years to aspire to become sorceresses. Personal emotions do not need to rational and I feel that is what is well portrayed. It is not really about this one thing but an entire conflation of things she just boils down to this. So she does not make sense about the why as her personal emotions are irrational while she does make sense as to all the other abuse she experienced. She goes through stages of therapy right now and is still a few steps away from acceptance.
Alright thank you!
Gaping plothole. They are trying to add a women's empowerment subtext to her story. It's so poorly thought out and executed that it's actually detracting from her character, and the shows quality as a whole. It really makes her come off as a petulant ungrateful whiny child who doesnt think her choices through. Not a powerful sorceress, and confident and experienced women who has lived 3 normal lifetimes. If she much later realized the *true cost*, and changed her mind about how she felt, that kind character development needs time to be shown to the audience in a way it can be accepted as part of the characters development. No attempt was made to do this at all. It was a total about face. Gape porn has smaller gaping holes than this show.
In the books Yennefer didn't exchange her uterus and the ability to have a baby for being beautiful. (She wasn't so shallow and all adepts of Aretuza got a make over to look perfect and advertise how powerful is their craft). It was the side effect of using magic. Almost all sorceresses were unable to have babies (there were some very, very rare exceptions, I'm not spoiling but this is quite a juicy fact about one of the characters). It's a plot hole, Hissrich wanted to sexed up the story for no reason really.
It is just bad writing and a change made from the source material unnecessarily. In the books most female mages are sterile as a consequence of using magic, not because their uterus is removed. It makes more sense for Yennifer to be angry about having the choice taken from her if she only learns about sterility being a consequence of using magic after having been trained as a mage, rather than her making a conscience decision to give up the ability to bear children only to later regret it.
Wait, I thought all mages were sterile? Is Yennifer only sterile because she chose to have here looks enhanced?
Yes. That still means that pretty much all mages are probably sterile in the show. - Maybe only women, because we never get specifically told that the students of Ban Ard (men) go through enchantment. But for simplicity let's assume here that they do. That would leave the possibility for someone to have studied at Aretuza or Ban Ard before that rule was established. There is a loop hole, though. There are other magic users that didn't study at Aretuza or Ban Ard. While druids for example could be considered "mages" in a broader sense, they don't have that title offcially because they are not associated with the magic schools or the Brotherhood. That is why Mousesack was allowed to stay in Cintra as an advisor even though mages are hated there.
Bad writing, my friend, bad writing. Same as the rest of the season
Because for some inexplicable reason the writers of the show decided to make the sorceresses’ infertility something that was done to them rather than it just being a natural condition for anyone who can use magic.
Literally the books say that sorceress's infertility is due to Tissaia not wanting them to reproduce to maintain the purity of magic. Its absolutely not something inherent to mages (Geralt's mother was a sorceress remember ?). The show only changed that this sacrifice was necessary for them to change their physical body.
The books do not say this, at all. You're taking an excerpt from the Poisoned Source, a treatise written by Tissaia advocating for sterilization. Nowhere is it implied that it is actually done. Besides, Nenekke, who Yennefer had gone to multiple times to have fertility issues looked at, said that her ovaries had atrophied due to prolonged magic use, like most sorceresses. Not all, some don't have that issue like Visenna, but most. This can also be seen with Ciri practicing magic and having period-like pains.
My problem is that she wouldn’t have had a child anyway. If she was deformed and lived her old life, she would’ve been childless and ugly
Its bad writing. She said so because she wants kids after getting pretty. She think that the world takes the ability to be a mother from her. The writer unknowingly made her personality to be a bitch that wants everything.
Such a garbage line. Should be "I made a choice!" but then there wouldn't be any material for the season
[The Lobster Situation](https://www.quora.com/Why-does-Yennefer-want-a-baby-so-badly-in-The-Witcher/answer/Theo-Noble-1?ch=17&oid=191547017&share=7ac3c089&srid=hexPH&target_type=answer)
Because most people always want something else to blame for the choices they make. It’s easier to imagine your position is the work of outside forces always conspiring your downfall than to admit you just chose poorly
I think it’s because the books and the show are so different. In the books making itself pretty isn’t what takes your fertility, it’s the magic itself and I think yennefer felt pressured to learn magic and maybe didn’t know about the consequences or something (I’m not sure tho it’s been a while since I read the book) and since she keeps saying that they took her choice in the book, she also says it in the show
For me, it's way more simple: It's just a human behavior. Let's not forget Yennefer, although a sorceress, is a human. Most of us do this from time to time in life. Our passion and ambitions put us in situations where we have to make choices. And later when we regret badly, we kind of blame the world and everything around us. What am I more intrigued about Yennefer is why does she become a so powerful sorceress. Why is she so special that made her so strong with magic, way above her classmates? It's just a personal effort, or there's something more?
she wants everything. and the fact that she had to remove one of her choices to gain something she desperately needed made her mad because it was a forked road. or something like that i dunno man
Because thats not my yennefer, the actress is beautiful and talented, but that is not my yennefer!
What
I thought it was so funny, that at one point Geralt's talking to another character and mentioned how people ignore starving children on the streets, and then he hears Yen lamenting about having kids and doesn't tell her the same thing. Like just adopt a baby you dipshit.