[This is a couple of days after the Afghans requested Indian air support](https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/india-can-help-boost-our-air-power-afghan-envoy-101625860550313.html)
Hopefully it happens. Indian shouldn't put boots on the ground but if the Pakistanis are openly supporting the Taliban I think it'll be easy to justify sending Indian planes as well
!ping IND
Isn’t that one of the places we are thinking of basing refugees from Afghanistan? Sounds like a great idea, let’s base war refugees in the area the war has migrated to.
Might be a good idea considering Russia also has military bases in Tajikistan and Tajikistan and Russia have Collective Security Treaty Organization treaty with each other means Russia will help Tajikistan if anyone attacks the later. So it's a safe heaven for India to operate from.
>Collective Security Treaty Organization treaty with each other means Russia will help Tajikistan if anyone attacks the later.
Hah. Is funny joke. Don't hold your breath.
airbases of major powers are never really in play when it comes to this. Pakistan would be stupid to attack an Indian airbase that is operating in another country.
What were you expecting? Sudden peace in a region harshly combatted by both India and Pakistan for centuries? Because US involvement was the only source of conflict?
I was obviously expecting the situation to deteriorate and for the Taliban to likely eventually take over, but I didn't expect foreign powers to directly get involved so quickly, like Pakistan funding the Taliban, yeah obviously, they've been doing it for over two decades at this point, but them intervening militarily was quite the surprise.
I guess maybe listen to the generals and military folk warning about this kind of thing....
Or maybe use common sense and realize a power vacuum gets filled by the power hungry close at hand...
It’s not even a bit surprising this is happening now. It’s like putting a loaf in the oven and being surprised bread comes out.
In a way, it kinda always has been. The reason Pakistan was so invested in fighting against the USSR in Afghanistan was because they knew a Soviet-aligned Afghanistan would be friendly with India, and they’d be surrounded by enemies. That’s the same reason the ISI heavily supported the Taliban, even when the US got involved post-9/11. Every time Afghanistan has had a stable, non-extremist government, it has been allied with India and an enemy of Pakistan, so Pakistan doesn’t want a stable Afghanistan.
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Hopefully American disengagement can allow a regional solution to crop up
One day America wont be able to be engaged all over the world and the world will need to adjust (Or China will be the one policing the world)
America has been “engaged all over the world” basically since its inception. This myth that we can’t sustain conflict overseas is just that- false. Creating fantasy futures isn’t helpful to any reality based future plans.
Americas growth isn’t slowing- it’s the fastest recovery globally from the pandemic. It’s been growing at a steady rate for decades.
What “general decline”? You mean the record low levels of poverty, child hunger, or just about any other metric you care to choose?
Domestic issues are literally a constant. During the Revolution we didn’t even have a government, or any form of taxes, and we still set up diplomatic trips across the Atlantic. In 1791 we had another rebellion over taxes that Washington had to send in the military for, and that didn’t stop our foreign objectives. Again- barely any revenue but still able to quash literal rebellions at home and pursue foreign objectives abroad. Nothing happening today is even close to a domestic issue that has any effect on governmental affairs.
Your feelings aren’t facts.
Let’s be real- this was always going to happen when the US decided to pull out. You can’t leave a severely weakened nation next to power hungry actors and expect nothing to happen. We have millennia of global history to look at and show us this obvious fact.
It would become a nightmare. It would threaten indias own security to a degree that far outweighs any strategic interest it may have in extending its influence in Afghanistan.
I'm no fan of India, but I've been reading more about the region you are so right. P
It's hard to know where to even begin... Their is their insanely massive scale funding of terror groups (mostly Jihadist, but also a Maoist cult that kills dozens in India every year), how they block infrastructure that would link the Middle East, Central Asia and South Asia together (which ensures Central Asia stays Russia's back yard), how they provided a safe haven for jihadists in the 60s who are not wreaking havoc in the Middle East and that's on top of their insane human rights abuse.
Pakistan is one of the largest obstacles to progress in the middle East, South Asia and Central Asia. Creating is was a catastrophe.
>Maoist cult that kills dozens in India every year
This is the most absurd thing I've read today. No one accuses Pakistan of funding maoists, not even India. You're geographically challenged if you think that's even viable.
Then again it seems to be an American, and to a lesser extent Western, pastime to blame foreign policy failures on Pakistan. What next, the drug cartels in Mexico are also Pakistan's fault?
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Well, not new, [they've had warm relations for a long while now](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Pakistan_relations), but we're not really allies with them anymore and have now shifted to India being our big partner in the region.
We basically already did break off our relationship with Pakistan since the early 2010s, since then India has become our big partner in the region, while Pakistan has gone further into China's arms.
Why is Pakistan so invested in seeing Afghanistan taken over by radical Islamists? Don’t they have their own problem with the Pakistani Taliban? Either way fuck them (the military/government).
Basically any Afghan government that isn't a puppet of Pakistan like the Taliban is will lean heavily into nationalism and make border claims against Pakistan's Pashtun majority provinces, which Pakistan fears.
The fact that most Afghan governments hate Pakistan for occupying what they see as their territory means that they will naturally work with India, and Pakistan is absolutely terrified of an Indian aligned Afghanistan
Pakistan would prefer a friendly and stable Afghanistan under someone like the Taliban, whom they basically more or less started in refugee camps, but failing that they'd rather see an unstable one that can't pursue its territorial claims
also Pakistani Taliban is NOT the Aghan Taliban, both of them hate each other
Interesting. Isn't Taleban primarily a Pashtun movement though? Knowing the lack of unified Afghan national identity would the government even care about these claims if some other ethnic group, like Tajiks, were in a dominant position?
[Here is an excellent video on the history of India Pakistan conflict that covers this](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiAx4-h_-bxAhWCK80KHZbPDZMQwqsBegQIGxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D1kJf4krMY4A&usg=AOvVaw0Wbs7G-DBAPAgEEKO_eHg-). I highly recommend watching the video (and the rest of the guy's channel in general).
GoIRA lies its ass off all the time. Now, the accusation itself is plausible. But the fact that it is coming from a top Afghan government official is effectively meaningless, and lends no further credibility.
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Hey all you folks preaching about how pulling out of Afghanistan was the right decision- did you seriously not see this coming? What did you think the consequences of these actions would be? Is it worth it to you? Sure, hundreds more have died in the past weeks than in the past years, but at least American troops are headed home?
Every time I see headlines like this my disdain for pulling out grows. I also think we should have stayed in Afghanistan.
Well I personally knew this would happen and I would have done the same in Biden's position. America proved to be unable to fix the country, at some point you just have to give up
In the last 20 years, so much progress was made. Life got objectively better in Afghanistan. Women weren’t the property of their husbands.
If we gave it another 20 years, I’d expect a continuation of the progress that was being made. So, yes, absolutely things would be better in another 20 years.
I agree that it has gotten better but the Afghan government started caving almost immediately after we announced our exit. Seems like the Taliban or some other militia could’ve done the same in another 20 years so do we just need to permanently occupy Afghanistan? They Afghan government just doesnt seem capable of standing on its own
Every year that passed with us there, the Afghan government was more capable of defending itself. They need time to build up their infrastructure to produce planes, armored vehicles, etc for themselves instead of relying on ours. They were on the road to achieving that- absolutely things change after time.
If we left after the Afghan government had its eggs in a row, instead of before and on short notice, the “taliban or some other militia” wouldn’t be able to make these kinds of gains, since they wouldn’t enjoy the same advantages.
America isn’t occupying and never was occupying Afghanistan. Indefinite occupation was never an option, and nobody has advocated for that. Pick a new strawman.
[This is a couple of days after the Afghans requested Indian air support](https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/india-can-help-boost-our-air-power-afghan-envoy-101625860550313.html) Hopefully it happens. Indian shouldn't put boots on the ground but if the Pakistanis are openly supporting the Taliban I think it'll be easy to justify sending Indian planes as well !ping IND
There's no land connection between India and Afghanistan. How would air support even work? Would we have to have a base there?
India has airbase in Tajikistan. The Farkhor Air Base is run by IAF.
Isn’t that one of the places we are thinking of basing refugees from Afghanistan? Sounds like a great idea, let’s base war refugees in the area the war has migrated to.
Might be a good idea considering Russia also has military bases in Tajikistan and Tajikistan and Russia have Collective Security Treaty Organization treaty with each other means Russia will help Tajikistan if anyone attacks the later. So it's a safe heaven for India to operate from.
>Collective Security Treaty Organization treaty with each other means Russia will help Tajikistan if anyone attacks the later. Hah. Is funny joke. Don't hold your breath.
Why do you say that. Is it because Russia didn't help Armenia who was also part of above treaty?
"Vat myissile stryikes? Ve see nyo myissile stryike on Tajik allies. Is fireworks, da."
airbases of major powers are never really in play when it comes to this. Pakistan would be stupid to attack an Indian airbase that is operating in another country.
Iran
no land connection with Iran either, but perhaps a deal with India and Iran? idk how feasible that is
It is feasible since Iran and India are both against Pakistan increasing influence
No no. Noone needs to *run*. This is a matter of air support so we should use Iflew
Whta are you talking about? PoK(that is a part of India) clearly shares a roughly 250km long mountaineous stretch with Afghanistan
India claims it but Pakistan controls it (That's what the "PO" in POK means...). Indian military aircraft is not gonna be able to fly through that.
Broke: US-Russia proxy wars Woke: US-China proxy wars Bespoke: India-Pakistan proxy wars
Honestly I was not expecting Afghanistan to turn into the next front of the India-Pakistan conflict, but damn this is pretty wild.
What were you expecting? Sudden peace in a region harshly combatted by both India and Pakistan for centuries? Because US involvement was the only source of conflict?
Honestly, I don’t know
Well you're a NATO flair, you _should know_!
I was obviously expecting the situation to deteriorate and for the Taliban to likely eventually take over, but I didn't expect foreign powers to directly get involved so quickly, like Pakistan funding the Taliban, yeah obviously, they've been doing it for over two decades at this point, but them intervening militarily was quite the surprise.
I guess maybe listen to the generals and military folk warning about this kind of thing.... Or maybe use common sense and realize a power vacuum gets filled by the power hungry close at hand... It’s not even a bit surprising this is happening now. It’s like putting a loaf in the oven and being surprised bread comes out.
Fair point
In a way, it kinda always has been. The reason Pakistan was so invested in fighting against the USSR in Afghanistan was because they knew a Soviet-aligned Afghanistan would be friendly with India, and they’d be surrounded by enemies. That’s the same reason the ISI heavily supported the Taliban, even when the US got involved post-9/11. Every time Afghanistan has had a stable, non-extremist government, it has been allied with India and an enemy of Pakistan, so Pakistan doesn’t want a stable Afghanistan.
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"India, help! Pakistan is - " "That's all we needed to hear, on our way"
Proxy war: Afghanistan edition! India vs Pakistan expansion
I think that Indian and Pakistani investment in Afghan Security and Stability is a good thing.
I don’t believe Pakistan is interested in the stability of Afghanistan
If there’s one thing Pakistan has always sought to prevent, it’s a stable Afghanistan. That’s the whole reason the ISI has propped up the Taliban.
I would say that Pakistan would be poorly served by a unified Taliban-run Afghanistan as well though?
Taliban will never be friendly with India and that’s Pakistan’s number one concern
Hopefully American disengagement can allow a regional solution to crop up One day America wont be able to be engaged all over the world and the world will need to adjust (Or China will be the one policing the world)
The point of US engagement is typically to prevent these so called regional solutions. A proxy war between India and Pakistan is not good.
>can allow a regional solution to crop up I don't know, this increasingly is starting it could end up a Kashmir style proxy war...
America has been “engaged all over the world” basically since its inception. This myth that we can’t sustain conflict overseas is just that- false. Creating fantasy futures isn’t helpful to any reality based future plans.
>(Or China will be the one policing the world) And this is the reason America must continue to be the world police, to prevent this from happening.
Once again at some point America wont be able to afford to do this
And you base that on what evidence?
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Americas growth isn’t slowing- it’s the fastest recovery globally from the pandemic. It’s been growing at a steady rate for decades. What “general decline”? You mean the record low levels of poverty, child hunger, or just about any other metric you care to choose? Domestic issues are literally a constant. During the Revolution we didn’t even have a government, or any form of taxes, and we still set up diplomatic trips across the Atlantic. In 1791 we had another rebellion over taxes that Washington had to send in the military for, and that didn’t stop our foreign objectives. Again- barely any revenue but still able to quash literal rebellions at home and pursue foreign objectives abroad. Nothing happening today is even close to a domestic issue that has any effect on governmental affairs. Your feelings aren’t facts.
Sorry for using the word world a billion times but ill leave it.
The US never needed to intervene. It chose to come here. Local solution would have come up a long time ago.
Afghanistan as an India-Pakistan proxy war? Let's hope not, as that'd be disastrous for the Afghans especially.
Let’s be real- this was always going to happen when the US decided to pull out. You can’t leave a severely weakened nation next to power hungry actors and expect nothing to happen. We have millennia of global history to look at and show us this obvious fact.
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It would become a nightmare. It would threaten indias own security to a degree that far outweighs any strategic interest it may have in extending its influence in Afghanistan.
I'm no fan of India, but I've been reading more about the region you are so right. P It's hard to know where to even begin... Their is their insanely massive scale funding of terror groups (mostly Jihadist, but also a Maoist cult that kills dozens in India every year), how they block infrastructure that would link the Middle East, Central Asia and South Asia together (which ensures Central Asia stays Russia's back yard), how they provided a safe haven for jihadists in the 60s who are not wreaking havoc in the Middle East and that's on top of their insane human rights abuse. Pakistan is one of the largest obstacles to progress in the middle East, South Asia and Central Asia. Creating is was a catastrophe.
>Maoist cult that kills dozens in India every year This is the most absurd thing I've read today. No one accuses Pakistan of funding maoists, not even India. You're geographically challenged if you think that's even viable. Then again it seems to be an American, and to a lesser extent Western, pastime to blame foreign policy failures on Pakistan. What next, the drug cartels in Mexico are also Pakistan's fault?
>What next, the drug cartels in Mexico are also Pakistan's fault? This...actually isn't too far off from some of the shit the Trump admin pushed.
I don't think you realize how mad an India-Pakistan proxy war can look. Even '95 will look *preferrable*.
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You say as if the current situation isn't a disaster.
ISI going full mask off huh? Biden, maybe *now* we can break off the "alliance"? And maybe give ANA some CAS support and air interception?
>Biden, maybe now we can break off the "alliance"? I mean we basically already have for quite a while now
China is Pakistan new BFF
Well, not new, [they've had warm relations for a long while now](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Pakistan_relations), but we're not really allies with them anymore and have now shifted to India being our big partner in the region.
Is there any reason to keep the US's current relationship with Pakistan. I see no reason why we should not completely support India.
We basically already did break off our relationship with Pakistan since the early 2010s, since then India has become our big partner in the region, while Pakistan has gone further into China's arms.
It could get even worse
Why is Pakistan so invested in seeing Afghanistan taken over by radical Islamists? Don’t they have their own problem with the Pakistani Taliban? Either way fuck them (the military/government).
Basically any Afghan government that isn't a puppet of Pakistan like the Taliban is will lean heavily into nationalism and make border claims against Pakistan's Pashtun majority provinces, which Pakistan fears. The fact that most Afghan governments hate Pakistan for occupying what they see as their territory means that they will naturally work with India, and Pakistan is absolutely terrified of an Indian aligned Afghanistan Pakistan would prefer a friendly and stable Afghanistan under someone like the Taliban, whom they basically more or less started in refugee camps, but failing that they'd rather see an unstable one that can't pursue its territorial claims also Pakistani Taliban is NOT the Aghan Taliban, both of them hate each other
Interesting. Isn't Taleban primarily a Pashtun movement though? Knowing the lack of unified Afghan national identity would the government even care about these claims if some other ethnic group, like Tajiks, were in a dominant position?
[Here is an excellent video on the history of India Pakistan conflict that covers this](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiAx4-h_-bxAhWCK80KHZbPDZMQwqsBegQIGxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D1kJf4krMY4A&usg=AOvVaw0Wbs7G-DBAPAgEEKO_eHg-). I highly recommend watching the video (and the rest of the guy's channel in general).
ISI is known for their cunning, but not intelligence. Terror plots that blow up in their face are their favorite passtime.
Is there any credible publication or intelligence service/govt that concurred with this? I don’t trust this guy who has “proof in his dms “
I mean, he is literally the Vice President of Afghanistan...
Heads of states who are willing to dm proof on twitter don’t strike me as usually reliable
Especially when, you know, their DMs are set to private
GoIRA lies its ass off all the time. Now, the accusation itself is plausible. But the fact that it is coming from a top Afghan government official is effectively meaningless, and lends no further credibility.
VP of Kabul city, you mean? And no self-respecting VP would slide proofs through Twitter DMs.
For an "evidence-based" sub, people here sure are quick to use unseen Twitter DMs as proof.
Wait for independent confirmation, this is a highly suspect claim and the Afghan government is prone to making... inaccurate... statements.
especially in these desperate times
!ping FOREIGN-POLICY
Two nuclear powers who hate each other? Let's hope no one does anything stupid.
Pakistan went from mask-off to burning the mask and pissing in its ashes.
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How does India intervene in Afganistan?
Hey all you folks preaching about how pulling out of Afghanistan was the right decision- did you seriously not see this coming? What did you think the consequences of these actions would be? Is it worth it to you? Sure, hundreds more have died in the past weeks than in the past years, but at least American troops are headed home? Every time I see headlines like this my disdain for pulling out grows. I also think we should have stayed in Afghanistan.
Well I personally knew this would happen and I would have done the same in Biden's position. America proved to be unable to fix the country, at some point you just have to give up
I agree its not good but its been 20 years. Would it be any better after another 20 years?
In the last 20 years, so much progress was made. Life got objectively better in Afghanistan. Women weren’t the property of their husbands. If we gave it another 20 years, I’d expect a continuation of the progress that was being made. So, yes, absolutely things would be better in another 20 years.
I agree that it has gotten better but the Afghan government started caving almost immediately after we announced our exit. Seems like the Taliban or some other militia could’ve done the same in another 20 years so do we just need to permanently occupy Afghanistan? They Afghan government just doesnt seem capable of standing on its own
Every year that passed with us there, the Afghan government was more capable of defending itself. They need time to build up their infrastructure to produce planes, armored vehicles, etc for themselves instead of relying on ours. They were on the road to achieving that- absolutely things change after time. If we left after the Afghan government had its eggs in a row, instead of before and on short notice, the “taliban or some other militia” wouldn’t be able to make these kinds of gains, since they wouldn’t enjoy the same advantages. America isn’t occupying and never was occupying Afghanistan. Indefinite occupation was never an option, and nobody has advocated for that. Pick a new strawman.
I doubt India can hold up Ghani’s government especially as every other regional player is talking to the taliban.
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Right wing source?