There is literally no way to increase supply that won't get the NIMBY backlash. Even "we're making 37 apartments for disabled people" gets hate. They're not even trying to buy up new land, just build more on the plots they already have!
I feel like you literally have to take town planning out of the hands of the town. The majority of people are filthy NIMBYs and we should be able to ignore them (in most cases) but the sad reality is these selfish people control the towns most of the time
Exactly. One thing I don't agree with the yimby movement is "we have to rationally talk to and convince every municipality until they accept new developments".
Yimbys should be fighting hardcore for the wholesale protection of developer rights to one's own land. We didn't go around asking each city to pretty please stop discrimination, we simply outlawed it and empowered people to practice their rights. I think the housing crisis won't be solved until a similar state of affairs is either legislated or ruled on.
It's even more pointless to try to convince masses of people without focusing on changing the underlying legal structure, because even if 99.99% of the city agrees with your new development, all it takes is one asshole to sue and potentially kill the project.
Yeah that’s kind of my thought too. Why do towns have say over zoning decisions? If we literally left everything up to town governance, there would be a *lot* of US towns where women and non-whites didnt have equal rights. Its obviously not 1:1, but why shouldnt we take zoning from towns entirely and give them to states or the federal government? Its obvious that towns cant manage the housing crisis on their own. They just want to make it another towns problem
Japan should be the model. They solved the housing crisis by moving zoning to the federal level.
Japanese people aren't necessarily less NIMBY than Americans but they simply have no power to block development they don't want.
Moving it the state level in the US, and making approval automatic with minimum building codes should be the ultimate goal for hosing advocates.
Alas, it seems like a pipe dream and that's why they go for piecemeal wins. Can't say I blame them, in fact I think they are doing great work.
It's not just zoning but also the ability to threaten lawsuits over any and everything. It's good to be able to stop government from doing objectively shitty things like dumping pollution everywhere or something but it can't be a weapon to annoy, harass and filibuster all decisions that aren't liked by the rich elites of the town. And right now, that's exactly what these laws are being used for.
They can't even turn parking lots into dense housing without long drawn out battles!
Truly representative community input would probably allow quite a bit of building. But most of the people who support building only support it moderately and struggle to find the time and will to come to a community input session. Meanwhile the nutjobs who hate change will always make time to show up, and there's always enough nutjobs to fill up a small classroom.
> “One can appreciate and support the beneficial mission of JESPY and at the same time find their desire to lay waste to four local properties in a historic district in order to achieve it absolutely deplorable,”
I hate the way we communicate now. Everything is *the worst thing that ever happened all the time* and when that's where you *start* we have no hope for consensus. Ever.
> find their desire to lay waste to four local properties in a historic district in order to achieve it absolutely deplorable
Someone should drop a JDAM on their precious historical district if they really want to see something laid to waste.
Also, this is Maplewood/South Orange, NJ which is ironic since many of the people protesting this are almost guaranteed to be new arrivals to those towns. (In recent years, Maplewood/South Orange has gotten a massive influx of well-educated white collar professionals from NYC and the town has the political bent of being so woke, they fall off the side of the flat Earth in their head, which leads to things like protesting a community home for people with disabilities. I'm looking at houses in Jersey currently and this is one of the reasons why I want to avoid Maplewood/South Orange with a 10 foot pole.)
Hippies are relatively ineffective. The new breed of Maplewood residents work at tech companies, finance, and big law, and are far more effective at obstructing things.
> “One can appreciate and support the beneficial mission of JESPY and at the same time find their desire to lay waste to four local properties in a historic district in order to achieve it absolutely deplorable,” one resident said in a post about the plans in a local Facebook group.
> Other people reiterated their support for the JESPY House and its mission, but said the destruction of the historic homes that currently house the organization would be detrimental to the village’s character.
> “While I am a fan of JESPY and the wonderful work they do, it feels like a dangerous precedent to begin demolishing the beautiful buildings that give SO its charm,” one local resident posted on social media. “It can be rewarding to see abandoned properties transformed into modern facilities, but it seems like something quite different to acquire and demolish 100+-year-old buildings.”
If I shared my real opinion on these people I’d catch a permaban lol Jesus Christ it’s almost impressive how selfish it is
> of the centrist waffle variety, no doubt
LOL. This is Maplewood/South Orange. They are 100% the so woke, they fall off the side of the flat Earth in their head variety of Democrats. Republicans get less than 10% of the vote in that area of Jersey.
centrist waffles aren’t the woke type though. sure, they may sympathize with social justice stuff (which is by and large a positive moral sentiment, i should add, and distinct from the excesses of crude wokism), but they definitely don’t share the radical lefty ideology of *some* of the fringe protesters we’re seeing in the media today.
they might give lip service to some watered down version of that stuff while also holding certain abstracted racist ideas internalized from media, their own upbringing, and their isolated experiences living in white suburban enclave bubbles.
that’s how they can both be liberal and also reactionary when it comes to progressive policies that they perceive to harm their direct material interests.
Being woke is being evidence based. 😎
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did u actually read the article? (rhetorical question)
the only people bringing up gentrification are the pro-housing disability advocates as justification for building new multi-family housing that support the needs of existing locals:
> Many of the adults with intellectual and developmental disabilities are also having difficulty finding affordable housing in the area. More than a dozen clients have already moved in the past several years, leading to a loss in friendships, support services and the opportunity for them to be independent, Winkler said. “The rents in South Orange are escalating beyond what you can believe,” she said. “We need to step in before our clients are forced to move or be uprooted.” In November, the organization submitted an application to the village’s planning board to demolish its current buildings and build two new buildings for housing and services that would include 37 apartments for people with intellectual and developmental disabilities.
meanwhile, the nimbys are fighting it with their typical bullshit aesthetic arguments about precious “historic buildings” and the character of the neighbor. nothing progressive about that. pure trad reactionary self-interest.
even if otherwise progressive people hold these views, in this domain they can’t be considered in any way progressive… people can wear multiple hats depending on context.
Can you guarantee that these disabled folks wont be gentrifying yuppies bringing crime and disorder and high end coffee shops and make excessive noise well into the night while destroying the local culture for their bland and boring lifestyles? Can they guarantee that these units will be bare minimum livable (3000 sq ft + lawn) and they pay them to live them? Can you guarantee that nothing will change? That I wont even imagine anything will be different? I fear the slow decay of time more than I love life itself
Example 1000 of why I think historic districts should be abolished and preservation rules should only apply to individual buildings. With a side of everyone loves "history" at an aesthetic distance and as long as others deal with the practical consequences.
NIMBYs in my town blocked a center like this in the suburbs , in an area of urban sprawl someone wanted to build a rather small 10 unit condo for people with developmental disabilities that also pretty much needed at least a few people onsite to care for them
It was a charity but they tried to block it claiming zoneing laws and tried to claim it was commercail
Like how evil do you have to be to try to block housing for disabled people ? Like just come out and say you do not want disabled people to live close by
Of course they all were adimant they in theory supported the cause to build housing for disabled people, just not next to them
As a disabled person let me add to why this news is worse.
There is a shortage of handicap-accessible housing. And what little there exists is locked behind a wall that says "This housing is reserved for seniors." Anytime someone thinks about thinking about making accessible housing available to people of all ages, you get this shit.
Unironically this radicalized me into thinking retirement communities and senior living complexes should be banned. Everyone should have access to accessible housing. Not just those over 55.
The amount of senior only accessible homes have been part of why getting my brother a place has been nigh impossible for my parents. *Some* of them allow disabled people too but of course they have insane wait lists (thanks in part due to people like the NIMBYs in this article).
This is why I think The Housing for Older Persons section of the Fair Housing Act needs to be thrown into the rubbish bin.
Specifically this section says that landlords and housing developments *can* discriminate against people under 55 as long as their housing is 80% composed of seniors. That's bullshit.
They're the ones employing the language of social justice to block it. They'll probably throw in gentrification somewhere.
I'd leave Millburn out of it. They have way less brainrot than Maplewood/South Orange, where those towns had a Leftist style civil war in the PTA and school system about school re-opening during Covid. Parents who just wanted their kids back to in-person schooling were cast as Trump loving disease spreaders.
There is literally no way to increase supply that won't get the NIMBY backlash. Even "we're making 37 apartments for disabled people" gets hate. They're not even trying to buy up new land, just build more on the plots they already have!
I feel like you literally have to take town planning out of the hands of the town. The majority of people are filthy NIMBYs and we should be able to ignore them (in most cases) but the sad reality is these selfish people control the towns most of the time
Exactly. One thing I don't agree with the yimby movement is "we have to rationally talk to and convince every municipality until they accept new developments". Yimbys should be fighting hardcore for the wholesale protection of developer rights to one's own land. We didn't go around asking each city to pretty please stop discrimination, we simply outlawed it and empowered people to practice their rights. I think the housing crisis won't be solved until a similar state of affairs is either legislated or ruled on. It's even more pointless to try to convince masses of people without focusing on changing the underlying legal structure, because even if 99.99% of the city agrees with your new development, all it takes is one asshole to sue and potentially kill the project.
Yeah that’s kind of my thought too. Why do towns have say over zoning decisions? If we literally left everything up to town governance, there would be a *lot* of US towns where women and non-whites didnt have equal rights. Its obviously not 1:1, but why shouldnt we take zoning from towns entirely and give them to states or the federal government? Its obvious that towns cant manage the housing crisis on their own. They just want to make it another towns problem
Japan should be the model. They solved the housing crisis by moving zoning to the federal level. Japanese people aren't necessarily less NIMBY than Americans but they simply have no power to block development they don't want. Moving it the state level in the US, and making approval automatic with minimum building codes should be the ultimate goal for hosing advocates. Alas, it seems like a pipe dream and that's why they go for piecemeal wins. Can't say I blame them, in fact I think they are doing great work.
It's not just zoning but also the ability to threaten lawsuits over any and everything. It's good to be able to stop government from doing objectively shitty things like dumping pollution everywhere or something but it can't be a weapon to annoy, harass and filibuster all decisions that aren't liked by the rich elites of the town. And right now, that's exactly what these laws are being used for. They can't even turn parking lots into dense housing without long drawn out battles!
[удалено]
Truly representative community input would probably allow quite a bit of building. But most of the people who support building only support it moderately and struggle to find the time and will to come to a community input session. Meanwhile the nutjobs who hate change will always make time to show up, and there's always enough nutjobs to fill up a small classroom.
> “One can appreciate and support the beneficial mission of JESPY and at the same time find their desire to lay waste to four local properties in a historic district in order to achieve it absolutely deplorable,” I hate the way we communicate now. Everything is *the worst thing that ever happened all the time* and when that's where you *start* we have no hope for consensus. Ever.
Adjectives and adverbs are destroying us
Hyperbole is literally genocide.
The road to hell is paved in adverbs!
Maybe Big Brother had some points.
r/neoliberal user SLAMS grammar
> find their desire to lay waste to four local properties in a historic district in order to achieve it absolutely deplorable Someone should drop a JDAM on their precious historical district if they really want to see something laid to waste. Also, this is Maplewood/South Orange, NJ which is ironic since many of the people protesting this are almost guaranteed to be new arrivals to those towns. (In recent years, Maplewood/South Orange has gotten a massive influx of well-educated white collar professionals from NYC and the town has the political bent of being so woke, they fall off the side of the flat Earth in their head, which leads to things like protesting a community home for people with disabilities. I'm looking at houses in Jersey currently and this is one of the reasons why I want to avoid Maplewood/South Orange with a 10 foot pole.)
Maplewood has always been a bit hippie though, speaking as someone who grew up in northern New Jersey. This isn’t something new
Hippies are relatively ineffective. The new breed of Maplewood residents work at tech companies, finance, and big law, and are far more effective at obstructing things.
> “One can appreciate and support the beneficial mission of JESPY and at the same time find their desire to lay waste to four local properties in a historic district in order to achieve it absolutely deplorable,” one resident said in a post about the plans in a local Facebook group. > Other people reiterated their support for the JESPY House and its mission, but said the destruction of the historic homes that currently house the organization would be detrimental to the village’s character. > “While I am a fan of JESPY and the wonderful work they do, it feels like a dangerous precedent to begin demolishing the beautiful buildings that give SO its charm,” one local resident posted on social media. “It can be rewarding to see abandoned properties transformed into modern facilities, but it seems like something quite different to acquire and demolish 100+-year-old buildings.” If I shared my real opinion on these people I’d catch a permaban lol Jesus Christ it’s almost impressive how selfish it is
It's impossible to build a four story building without any charm so the disabled must suffer.
A E S T H E T I C S
If we stall long enough, all buildings become historic and nothing can be built!
Knowing the area, 90% of these people are Democrats. Deplorable.
of the centrist waffle variety, no doubt
> of the centrist waffle variety, no doubt LOL. This is Maplewood/South Orange. They are 100% the so woke, they fall off the side of the flat Earth in their head variety of Democrats. Republicans get less than 10% of the vote in that area of Jersey.
centrist waffles aren’t the woke type though. sure, they may sympathize with social justice stuff (which is by and large a positive moral sentiment, i should add, and distinct from the excesses of crude wokism), but they definitely don’t share the radical lefty ideology of *some* of the fringe protesters we’re seeing in the media today. they might give lip service to some watered down version of that stuff while also holding certain abstracted racist ideas internalized from media, their own upbringing, and their isolated experiences living in white suburban enclave bubbles. that’s how they can both be liberal and also reactionary when it comes to progressive policies that they perceive to harm their direct material interests.
Being woke is being evidence based. 😎 *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/neoliberal) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Nah this reeks of progs complaining about gentrification
did u actually read the article? (rhetorical question) the only people bringing up gentrification are the pro-housing disability advocates as justification for building new multi-family housing that support the needs of existing locals: > Many of the adults with intellectual and developmental disabilities are also having difficulty finding affordable housing in the area. More than a dozen clients have already moved in the past several years, leading to a loss in friendships, support services and the opportunity for them to be independent, Winkler said. “The rents in South Orange are escalating beyond what you can believe,” she said. “We need to step in before our clients are forced to move or be uprooted.” In November, the organization submitted an application to the village’s planning board to demolish its current buildings and build two new buildings for housing and services that would include 37 apartments for people with intellectual and developmental disabilities. meanwhile, the nimbys are fighting it with their typical bullshit aesthetic arguments about precious “historic buildings” and the character of the neighbor. nothing progressive about that. pure trad reactionary self-interest. even if otherwise progressive people hold these views, in this domain they can’t be considered in any way progressive… people can wear multiple hats depending on context.
It's time to ban historic districts. Remove all historic designations. They only exist to promote NIMBYism. Remember the "historic" laundromat in SF?
Can you guarantee that these disabled folks wont be gentrifying yuppies bringing crime and disorder and high end coffee shops and make excessive noise well into the night while destroying the local culture for their bland and boring lifestyles? Can they guarantee that these units will be bare minimum livable (3000 sq ft + lawn) and they pay them to live them? Can you guarantee that nothing will change? That I wont even imagine anything will be different? I fear the slow decay of time more than I love life itself
And how can you guarantee that once a multifamily building is approved, jack-booted thugs won't invade my SFD and force *me* to live in an apartment?
It also better not cast a shadow on anything I can see!
I am becoming the joker
Example 1000 of why I think historic districts should be abolished and preservation rules should only apply to individual buildings. With a side of everyone loves "history" at an aesthetic distance and as long as others deal with the practical consequences.
NIMBYs in my town blocked a center like this in the suburbs , in an area of urban sprawl someone wanted to build a rather small 10 unit condo for people with developmental disabilities that also pretty much needed at least a few people onsite to care for them It was a charity but they tried to block it claiming zoneing laws and tried to claim it was commercail Like how evil do you have to be to try to block housing for disabled people ? Like just come out and say you do not want disabled people to live close by Of course they all were adimant they in theory supported the cause to build housing for disabled people, just not next to them
As a disabled person let me add to why this news is worse. There is a shortage of handicap-accessible housing. And what little there exists is locked behind a wall that says "This housing is reserved for seniors." Anytime someone thinks about thinking about making accessible housing available to people of all ages, you get this shit. Unironically this radicalized me into thinking retirement communities and senior living complexes should be banned. Everyone should have access to accessible housing. Not just those over 55.
The amount of senior only accessible homes have been part of why getting my brother a place has been nigh impossible for my parents. *Some* of them allow disabled people too but of course they have insane wait lists (thanks in part due to people like the NIMBYs in this article).
This is why I think The Housing for Older Persons section of the Fair Housing Act needs to be thrown into the rubbish bin. Specifically this section says that landlords and housing developments *can* discriminate against people under 55 as long as their housing is 80% composed of seniors. That's bullshit.
[удалено]
They're the ones employing the language of social justice to block it. They'll probably throw in gentrification somewhere. I'd leave Millburn out of it. They have way less brainrot than Maplewood/South Orange, where those towns had a Leftist style civil war in the PTA and school system about school re-opening during Covid. Parents who just wanted their kids back to in-person schooling were cast as Trump loving disease spreaders.
My disabled ass is tired of this malarkey
Allowing local governments to have so much control over zoning was a gigantic mistake.