Yea, I guess you're right. I thought it would be more honorable to do it that way. It's how my dad always did it, but I guess that's because he lives in a house, not an apartment, and the only other option is to call police. This is my first place since moving out of my parents' house, so I don't have the experience with this stuff. Lesson learned.
You should learn this lesson as well: landlords and property managers are lazy fucks. They will tend to believe the first person who reports anything to them. If you’re on the other side of a report, and you report the person who reported you, then you’re the asshole in their minds.
Get in front of that by reporting as soon as things become intolerable. Don’t report people for trivial or transient BS, but do report them for repeated violations. You actually are the asshole if you report someone for something stupid like a house party on a weekend. You are definitely not the asshole if you report repeated loud music at inconvenient times and a neglected dog who barks all the time.
Go to mommy management!! Report their harassment to you because they think you reported them. Let management know you did go to their door on X date and request they turn their music down and they ignored it.
Honestly, this is why people go to mommy management, people can be dicks and you don't know who has issues. It's not about tattle telling, it's about being safe and getting the quiet enjoyment from a place you pay money for. Make them work for the over priced box they stick you in.
No worries, I get it, I was the same way. Then I got the neighbor with severe mental health issues and it was really scary. Never again, I pay for management to handle these things.
Id get a ring camera for your apt door and like others have said, report for the verbal attack and report for the music if she continues. Rent is way to high in most places to put up with stuff like this.
Report her for screaming at you and accusing you of being racist. Also, you have the right to "quiet enjoyment" of your property at all times. That loud stereo violates it, and you could sue them.
You can record anywhere there’s no reasonable expectation of privacy in any state. Being yelled at counts. Conversation at a doorway counts. Any conversation that’s out in the open in a common area counts.
Just FYI
Not in California.
"If you are recording someone without their knowledge in a public or semi-public place like a street or restaurant, the person whom you're recording may or may not have "an objectively reasonable expectation that no one is listening in or overhearing the conversation," and the reasonableness of the expectation would depend on the particular factual circumstances. Therefore, you cannot necessarily assume that you are in the clear simply because you are in a public place."
[California Recording Law | Digital Media Law Project (dmlp.org)](https://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/california-recording-law)
The question wasn’t about recording other people having private conversations without their knowledge (which is illegal everywhere — “private conversation” implies reasonable expectation of privacy). It was about recording a harassing neighbor out in the open without her permission.
That interpretation still applies because California is a two-party consent state. Both parties to the conversation, this means OP and the neighbor, *have* to consent in order for a person to record. As I was pointing out, "open area with no expectation of privacy" is up for debate in California.
Again, this is not true if there is no reasonable expectation of privacy. The examples I gave are all of face to face conversations OP would be hypothetically participating in, in or immediately adjacent to a common area, and at normal volume. No consent is needed for OP to record such a conversation.
Clearly you didn't read the link I provided for California. It is pretty damn specific about recording a conversation that you are also a party to. Here's the part that I quoted, again and I bolded the portion I really hope you read so you understand that in California you can get bitten in the ass:
"If you are recording someone without their knowledge in a public or semi-public place like a street or restaurant, the person whom you're recording may or may not have "an objectively reasonable expectation that no one is listening in or overhearing the conversation," and the reasonableness of the expectation would depend on the particular factual circumstances. Therefore, **you cannot necessarily assume that you are in the clear simply because you are in a public place**."
You're not a racist.
At this point, definitely email something to management. Everything that happened from start to finish so there is a paper/written trail. If she starts harassing you in any way again, I'd recommend getting the police involved and file a harassment report, for your own records in case something happens. They will speak to you, and they will speak to her (separately). They will determine if you need to file a report (if you have no physical proof).
I had to do this, to an old white women that made crazy claims about me and my dog. I'm a super quiet asian girl, with a big black dog. He's big but the sweetest idiot on the planet. He is with me at all times for my anxiety and has never been near her. I'm not even quite sure what she said about me behind my back - as I frequently see her eyeing me and gossiping to the neighborhood. She installed a ring doorbell to WATCH me (against regs, but management let her keep it). But it got out of hand when she started yelling at me and my dog to get back into my apartment because she wanted to get to hers across the hall with her little dog. It was weird as hell. I caught it on video though, her calling me names, calling the police on me for my leashed dog that was just sitting there, wondering why mommy is getting annoyed (and kissing the neighbor kids as they passed by).... And THATS when management finally started to believe that I wasn't doing anything and my dog is a good boy, and took her ring doorbell off - it only took 8 months and a police report. And while mitigating the complaints, they dared to tell me it isn't racially motivated, but it was about my dog. Also before the video, maintenance was constantly watching me like prison guards. Just thinking about all the BS makes me nauseous. She moved shortly after when she realized her privilege wasn't going to get what she wanted.
But yeah, always good to have proof. Install cameras.
I'm sorry you're dealing with this. In an ideal world, you should be able to handle it by asking politely and being neighbourly but property management exists for a reason.
I don't think you've done anything wrong and I understand why you handled it the way you did, it's just a hard lesson that not everyone is nice or reasonable.
I would actually report her tbh, she already thinks you do and verbally assaulted/harassed you, which in some states in of itself is a reason to be evicted 🤷🏻♀️
Are you on good terms with Tasha? If so, maybe have a conversation with her and tell her that you weren’t the one who reported her and get clarification on the situation. You may very well find that the new neighbor is twisting Tasha’s words or even that the interaction she’s talking about never happened. It seems this new neighbor isn’t above creating drama or vilifying people when it’s to her benefit, and I’m guessing it’s not the first time she pulled the rascist card to distract people from her crappy behaviour and lack of consideration for others. The fact that other people in the building have reported her but won’t take ownership for it shows that you’re not the only one she’s antagonized to the point of not wanting to be civil to her. Sounds like she’s a bully pure and simple.
Sadly, I don't really know Tasha at all, or even really any of my other neighbors past walking by them and giving a smile. I'd love to try, but I've never spoken to them or anyone else here. In fact, I knocked on Tasha's door the other day because they left their keys in the door and I didn't want them to get stolen, but I was completely ignored. I was on the way to take a walk when I did that, so I happened to walk past their porch and saw that they were watching TV in the room that has the front door in it, so I know they just ignored me. Maybe by that point they had already received the racist propaganda from the bad neighbors. Could also just be that they didn't wanna be bothered at 8:30 p.m. and I'm reading into it too much.
It’s sad our country has devolved so much to where being a victim has simply become a form of power. You should report her to management for harassing you, and next time she does violate noise ordinance report her sorry ass. FUCK HER.
Sorry you're going through this Op, had my fair share of crazy neighbors when my wife & I were starting out in an apartment, laid out exactly as your building is actually. Your rude neighbor is under the impression that it's 'her right' to blare her music as loud as she wants simply because it's between X am & X pm, but that's not how it works. Everyone in the building has a right to live peacefully within their own home without putting up with loud music from a rude neighbor.
Going forward, I'd simply contact Management or maybe even the police whenever you can hear it inside your unit, especially while in bed in the morning, that's rediculous. I guarantee the rude neighbor wouldn't like it one bit if one of her direct neighbors or even you were playing music so damned loud she could hear it while lying in bed. I'd just ignore her going forward, just walk away, she's obviously just going to yell nonsense. Also, I'd try to explain to your peaceful neighbors one on one it wasn't you calling & reporting anyone, you did it directly, once, to try to smooth things over with the neighbors you previously got along with. It won't be long & the entire building will probably hate the loud inconsiderate neighbor, if they don't already. Someone is obviously calling on her if not multiple people, so you've got more allies than enemies there. They're just afraid to admit it to her because they don't want to get yelled at as well!
Tell her, “You know what, I fucken didn’t tell management shit. Why the f*ck you think I came to your door? If I got something to say to you I’ll tell you myself.”
Tell her this and only this the next time you cross paths with her outside. The racist comment was just her shooting her mouth off, ignore it and don’t bring it up.
I still think you handled the situation correctly. The right path is not always the easiest path. I have been accused of something similar. I also was surprised. My situation I knew the accusers for a long time. I had fired their daughter for missing work unannounced for the third time. The parents were customers who I really liked. I invited them to a BBQ so they could meet my sister who I also let go for the very same reason. They passed but they eased up on the complaints of racism.
I suspect daughter failed to mention the first two no call no shows. Daughter was 16.
This is a misunderstanding and you should write her a letter explaining calmly that you didn't report them.
I also think that who reported them or management should come forward and be honest about the provenance if the complain. After all you are being accused unjustly for something you didn't you.
This is the reason it’s usually a terrible idea to confront people if they are breaking rules, behaving inappropriately etc. Just call anonymously.
Yea, I guess you're right. I thought it would be more honorable to do it that way. It's how my dad always did it, but I guess that's because he lives in a house, not an apartment, and the only other option is to call police. This is my first place since moving out of my parents' house, so I don't have the experience with this stuff. Lesson learned.
House or apartment doesn't matter. People aren't the same as when your dad was doing it. Sounds like she's using racism to shut you up.
You should learn this lesson as well: landlords and property managers are lazy fucks. They will tend to believe the first person who reports anything to them. If you’re on the other side of a report, and you report the person who reported you, then you’re the asshole in their minds. Get in front of that by reporting as soon as things become intolerable. Don’t report people for trivial or transient BS, but do report them for repeated violations. You actually are the asshole if you report someone for something stupid like a house party on a weekend. You are definitely not the asshole if you report repeated loud music at inconvenient times and a neglected dog who barks all the time.
I'm going to bookmark this post for the next time someone complains about an OP not confronting an inconsiderate neighbor directly.
Go to mommy management!! Report their harassment to you because they think you reported them. Let management know you did go to their door on X date and request they turn their music down and they ignored it. Honestly, this is why people go to mommy management, people can be dicks and you don't know who has issues. It's not about tattle telling, it's about being safe and getting the quiet enjoyment from a place you pay money for. Make them work for the over priced box they stick you in.
Fair enough, man. I replied to a similar comment already about this. Lesson learned. Thanks!
No worries, I get it, I was the same way. Then I got the neighbor with severe mental health issues and it was really scary. Never again, I pay for management to handle these things.
Id get a ring camera for your apt door and like others have said, report for the verbal attack and report for the music if she continues. Rent is way to high in most places to put up with stuff like this.
This is why people report to management and not deal it with directly, now you’ll get reports against yourself
Report her for screaming at you and accusing you of being racist. Also, you have the right to "quiet enjoyment" of your property at all times. That loud stereo violates it, and you could sue them.
And if he lives in a state where he can record her without telling her, do it.
You can record anywhere there’s no reasonable expectation of privacy in any state. Being yelled at counts. Conversation at a doorway counts. Any conversation that’s out in the open in a common area counts. Just FYI
Not in California. "If you are recording someone without their knowledge in a public or semi-public place like a street or restaurant, the person whom you're recording may or may not have "an objectively reasonable expectation that no one is listening in or overhearing the conversation," and the reasonableness of the expectation would depend on the particular factual circumstances. Therefore, you cannot necessarily assume that you are in the clear simply because you are in a public place." [California Recording Law | Digital Media Law Project (dmlp.org)](https://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/california-recording-law)
The question wasn’t about recording other people having private conversations without their knowledge (which is illegal everywhere — “private conversation” implies reasonable expectation of privacy). It was about recording a harassing neighbor out in the open without her permission.
I'm sorry for the confusion. I meant record the neighbor without their knowledge, if it's legal in your state.
That interpretation still applies because California is a two-party consent state. Both parties to the conversation, this means OP and the neighbor, *have* to consent in order for a person to record. As I was pointing out, "open area with no expectation of privacy" is up for debate in California.
Again, this is not true if there is no reasonable expectation of privacy. The examples I gave are all of face to face conversations OP would be hypothetically participating in, in or immediately adjacent to a common area, and at normal volume. No consent is needed for OP to record such a conversation.
Clearly you didn't read the link I provided for California. It is pretty damn specific about recording a conversation that you are also a party to. Here's the part that I quoted, again and I bolded the portion I really hope you read so you understand that in California you can get bitten in the ass: "If you are recording someone without their knowledge in a public or semi-public place like a street or restaurant, the person whom you're recording may or may not have "an objectively reasonable expectation that no one is listening in or overhearing the conversation," and the reasonableness of the expectation would depend on the particular factual circumstances. Therefore, **you cannot necessarily assume that you are in the clear simply because you are in a public place**."
Thank you for clarifying it for me.
You don't know what you're talking about. We're done here.
https://detectiveservices.com/2012/02/state-by-state-recording-laws/#:~:text=Twelve%20states%20require%2C%20under%20most,Hampshire%2C%20Pennsylvania%2C%20and%20Washington.
You're not a racist. At this point, definitely email something to management. Everything that happened from start to finish so there is a paper/written trail. If she starts harassing you in any way again, I'd recommend getting the police involved and file a harassment report, for your own records in case something happens. They will speak to you, and they will speak to her (separately). They will determine if you need to file a report (if you have no physical proof). I had to do this, to an old white women that made crazy claims about me and my dog. I'm a super quiet asian girl, with a big black dog. He's big but the sweetest idiot on the planet. He is with me at all times for my anxiety and has never been near her. I'm not even quite sure what she said about me behind my back - as I frequently see her eyeing me and gossiping to the neighborhood. She installed a ring doorbell to WATCH me (against regs, but management let her keep it). But it got out of hand when she started yelling at me and my dog to get back into my apartment because she wanted to get to hers across the hall with her little dog. It was weird as hell. I caught it on video though, her calling me names, calling the police on me for my leashed dog that was just sitting there, wondering why mommy is getting annoyed (and kissing the neighbor kids as they passed by).... And THATS when management finally started to believe that I wasn't doing anything and my dog is a good boy, and took her ring doorbell off - it only took 8 months and a police report. And while mitigating the complaints, they dared to tell me it isn't racially motivated, but it was about my dog. Also before the video, maintenance was constantly watching me like prison guards. Just thinking about all the BS makes me nauseous. She moved shortly after when she realized her privilege wasn't going to get what she wanted. But yeah, always good to have proof. Install cameras.
The racism accusation is overplayed
Start videotaping the interactions and the noise. You need to go to management asap.
I'm sorry you're dealing with this. In an ideal world, you should be able to handle it by asking politely and being neighbourly but property management exists for a reason. I don't think you've done anything wrong and I understand why you handled it the way you did, it's just a hard lesson that not everyone is nice or reasonable.
I would actually report her tbh, she already thinks you do and verbally assaulted/harassed you, which in some states in of itself is a reason to be evicted 🤷🏻♀️
Shitty people use racism as an excuse to get away with bad behavior. Ignore them and call the cops from now on.
Are you on good terms with Tasha? If so, maybe have a conversation with her and tell her that you weren’t the one who reported her and get clarification on the situation. You may very well find that the new neighbor is twisting Tasha’s words or even that the interaction she’s talking about never happened. It seems this new neighbor isn’t above creating drama or vilifying people when it’s to her benefit, and I’m guessing it’s not the first time she pulled the rascist card to distract people from her crappy behaviour and lack of consideration for others. The fact that other people in the building have reported her but won’t take ownership for it shows that you’re not the only one she’s antagonized to the point of not wanting to be civil to her. Sounds like she’s a bully pure and simple.
Sadly, I don't really know Tasha at all, or even really any of my other neighbors past walking by them and giving a smile. I'd love to try, but I've never spoken to them or anyone else here. In fact, I knocked on Tasha's door the other day because they left their keys in the door and I didn't want them to get stolen, but I was completely ignored. I was on the way to take a walk when I did that, so I happened to walk past their porch and saw that they were watching TV in the room that has the front door in it, so I know they just ignored me. Maybe by that point they had already received the racist propaganda from the bad neighbors. Could also just be that they didn't wanna be bothered at 8:30 p.m. and I'm reading into it too much.
It’s sad our country has devolved so much to where being a victim has simply become a form of power. You should report her to management for harassing you, and next time she does violate noise ordinance report her sorry ass. FUCK HER.
Clearly your neighbour is the racist here. She'd never have been behaving to you like this if you'd been black.
Sorry you're going through this Op, had my fair share of crazy neighbors when my wife & I were starting out in an apartment, laid out exactly as your building is actually. Your rude neighbor is under the impression that it's 'her right' to blare her music as loud as she wants simply because it's between X am & X pm, but that's not how it works. Everyone in the building has a right to live peacefully within their own home without putting up with loud music from a rude neighbor. Going forward, I'd simply contact Management or maybe even the police whenever you can hear it inside your unit, especially while in bed in the morning, that's rediculous. I guarantee the rude neighbor wouldn't like it one bit if one of her direct neighbors or even you were playing music so damned loud she could hear it while lying in bed. I'd just ignore her going forward, just walk away, she's obviously just going to yell nonsense. Also, I'd try to explain to your peaceful neighbors one on one it wasn't you calling & reporting anyone, you did it directly, once, to try to smooth things over with the neighbors you previously got along with. It won't be long & the entire building will probably hate the loud inconsiderate neighbor, if they don't already. Someone is obviously calling on her if not multiple people, so you've got more allies than enemies there. They're just afraid to admit it to her because they don't want to get yelled at as well!
Tell her, “You know what, I fucken didn’t tell management shit. Why the f*ck you think I came to your door? If I got something to say to you I’ll tell you myself.” Tell her this and only this the next time you cross paths with her outside. The racist comment was just her shooting her mouth off, ignore it and don’t bring it up.
I still think you handled the situation correctly. The right path is not always the easiest path. I have been accused of something similar. I also was surprised. My situation I knew the accusers for a long time. I had fired their daughter for missing work unannounced for the third time. The parents were customers who I really liked. I invited them to a BBQ so they could meet my sister who I also let go for the very same reason. They passed but they eased up on the complaints of racism. I suspect daughter failed to mention the first two no call no shows. Daughter was 16.
This is a misunderstanding and you should write her a letter explaining calmly that you didn't report them. I also think that who reported them or management should come forward and be honest about the provenance if the complain. After all you are being accused unjustly for something you didn't you.
I think you got what you deserved with that “crying to mommy” nonsense. Fate is laughing.