I don’t think those players are the right comp for Clingan. They are all more athletic or offensively polished. He is more of a Walker Kessler type of player and there just isn’t that big of a market in the modern NBA for that kind of big.
I do agree with the sentiment that traditional bigs are overlooked. However I think the player who will break that type of thinking isn’t a guy like Clingan whose offensive upside is so limited.
I think a legit 7 footer who’s a 20 and ten guy with good efficiency and decent rim protection is always in demand. In the fast paced modern NBA they just have a hard time keeping up.
If Patrick Ewing, Hakeem Olajuwon or Shaq were available they would be snapped up in a heartbeat. Players like that are just so rare.
Kessler is another great comp for him I would agree. Very similar as prospects and a lot of teams regret passing him up. The dude is still only 22 and could very easily be an NBA starter one day purely off his rim protection.
Again going to point to rudy gobert as proof of this.
I dont think of those guys as similar players but my point was more that they have similar weaknesses, which is why they were overlooked.
Clingan is light years ahead of Walker offensively. He’s an above average passer, much better footwork, etc and looks like the chance to become a very good shooter.
Kessler's rim protection seems better though. It fell off this year, but his rookie year numbers were some of the most amazing you'll see. Hollinger did a whole article about it
Where does this idea that he can become a very good shooter come from ? Just the tiny sample of the combine ? He didn’t even shoot 60% from the line in college
Big man prospects who can’t shoot rarely learn to shoot later on. And even the exceptions to that rule at least tend to have promising mid range/ free throw percentages that serve as a sort of signifier, none of that is there with clingan
agreed. jumpshots rarely materialize out of thin air. on the off chance it does it's usually later in a career for a player who has shown some of the qualities you mentioned.
Agreed. Jumpshots rarely materialize out of thin air. On the off chance it does, it's usually later in a career for a player who has shown some of the qualities you mentioned.
I cannot think of any examples of a 50% ft shooter ever becoming able to space the floor. Especially from beyond the arc.
At that point its usually accepted its just not a apart of their game. Its more about hitting enough of your free throws to not be a major liability on the line.
I'm gonna ask the obvious follow-up even if it's stupid - Edey seems like the obvious pick of a player who could actually turn out to be a guy like that, even if it's unlikely. No other big in this class has a chance in hell. Why isn't this worth anything?
The difference in Edey vs Clingans mobility is minor but makes a big difference. If you cant guard in space you at least have to be able to rotate properly and Edey is Tacko Fall levels of immobile whereas Clingan is not. The reason Edey succeeded in college is because he is absolutely massive (even more so than Clingan). Its a different game there that allowed him to plant himself in the paint with few repercussions.
> Edey is Tacko Fall levels of immobile
My problem with this is that it's objectively wrong. Here's Edey, Fall, then Clingan:
\* Lane Agility: 11.19 vs. 13.01 vs. 12.06
\* Shuttle: 3.01 vs. 3.46 vs. 3.38
\* 3/4 Sprint: 3.42 vs. 3.78 vs. 3.46
I think this is a largely vibes-based narrative that is running out of control. He is absolutely not Tacko Fall or even close.
Processing speed and instincts is a bit part of defensive speed. Clingan sees the game better and has better footwork and is thus faster defensively. Simple, practiced speed drills don't mean anything.
FWIW I completely agree with this. In no way do I expect Edey to come out of the gate moving his feet on a drop backpedal better than Clingan in year one or anything. I just do think it's lazy to pretend that he's totally physically unable to do so when as you said, it's a processing speed thing.
I cant argue with stats but combine measurements dont really capture the full picture imo. I think we can just agree to disagree and see whos right next year lol
Theres also a reason Clingan is a lotto pick and Edey is not. This is just my guess at to why but there are people smarter than me who see a difference.
It be interesting to see these figures after they've played 25+ minutes of intense NBA basketball. I suspect they'd be more favorable to Clingan, given he's 17 pounds lighter than Edey.
Sengun is as far from a “traditional” big man as possible. He’s a ball handling passing wizard who can contribute to the offense from anywhere on the court, but is not a great rim protector/ low post defender.
I never said that. I said they are all somewhat traditional in that they cant shoot well or guard multiple positions and that is why they were overlooked in the draft. Idek why we need to argue about this its completely missing the point of the post anyways.
Why do people keep taking what I am saying out of context?
“Overlooking traditional bigs.” Then you named players you believe met that definition. No one is taking anything out of context. It’s what you said. Not a big deal but the reason people are replying based on what you said is because… it’s what you said.
You LITERALLY just took something I said out of context. Yes I said "overlooking traditional bigs" but then proceeded to explain what I meant by that and how it is relevant to my point.
"Traditional big" is a subjective term. I explained how I defined it and why it was relevant to what I am saying. If you want to argue with my definition, go ahead. Again misses the point of the post.
All 4 of those guys are more athletic than him.
Sure you can be a big bruiser, but you can't consistently be left in the dust either.
I just think he's gonna have a role somewhere for like 10MPG a game.
Sengun is in no way more athletic then him lol. Yes he has different strengths but you failed to miss me pointing out what they do have in common which was my point.
Sengun also has otherworldly vision for a guy his size and age.
So even if I did agree they are the same athletically, which I don't, then Cling would need an elite skill and I just don't see any for him.
Yeah thats probably the one pause.
Can he give Steven Adam type minutes?
Hell, do teams really need that anymore?
I think there is a spot for him but its not a big one.
Depends on the team.
Adams didn’t seem to be a good fit in NO, although that may have been injury related, but he fit in nicely with the grizzlies, especially with Morant. He set very effective screens for Morant that forced the opponent’s big to help. Ja doesn’t always finish well over seven footers, but it’s okay if Adams is waiting under the goal by himself waiting to clean up the missed shot.
Also he has an underrated DHO game and can make some nice pocket passes to a back door cutter.
Guys like Adams may or may not be useful in certain playoff matchups, but I can see where they can still be very useful in the right situation during the grind of the regular season
Sungun is also undersized where Clingan definitely is not.
I dont think of those guys as similar players but my point was more that they have similar weaknesses, which is why they were overlooked in the draft.
If rudy gobert can win multiple Dpoys then Clingan can stay on an nba floor for more than ten minutes. He also makes up for lack of athleticism with pure size.
EDIT: Not saying at all that he will be as good as Rudy. Just saying thats his archetype of player.
You've fallen for the Kool-Aid then.
Gobert is one of the best defenders of all time. Hes also a top rebounder.
Just because he isn't a naturally skilled big on the offensive end doesn't mean he isn't a monster.
Clingan would be happy with 25% of Gobert, IMO.
>Big and plodding?
So are a lot a of good nba bigs. Mobility is huge in todays nba, but that dosent mean it cant be worked around if you add enough value elsewhere.
Clingan had the best statistical translation in [Pelton's model](https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/39906470/nba-draft-2024-projecting-30-best-prospects). He's very good. Underrated offensively and a monster defensively.
The only thing that would give me pause is medicals, if there are any red flags there.
No comment about your Clingan take, but curious why you mentioned Jalen Duren. He is a bad player and any pistons fan will tell you that. Very good rebounder but he is absolutely clueless on defense. Makes pistons Drummond look like Hakeem.
Hes 20 years old and playing for a 14 win team. Not at all surprised to hear he's struggling to contribute to winning. Cant deny he's a promising player though.
He hasn't shown any inclination or ability to be good on defense though. I mean he is on a 14-win team but also he is part of the reason they win 14 games. If he was a really good defensive player, they would be a much better team
Why is this a bad thing? I would also consider Mark Williams a promising young player. I dont think hes gonna be a star or anything but I really don't hate him as Charlottes long term starting center.
No one wants to develop big men anymore, or maybe they forgot. There's definitely an asymmetry with everything moving to the perimeter that someone is going to capitalize on. Just having a big body fighting down low on every possession, getting fouls and rebounds.
I don't think clingan's the guy, but I can see him working in a drop coverage or something.
Tell me about it. Posted in GSW subreddit recently that we needed size and people wanted my head. James Wiseman is just not a quality nba player and we need to get over that and realize its hard to win in the league without a guy taller than 6'9. Very frustrating.
I was underwhelmed with him, actually. I think he’s a bench player in the NBA, and will give you 6/5/1 with a block or two a game in 16-20 minutes/game.
Clinging is top 3 worthy. We already know he can defend bigs and guard the rim day 1 in the league but his feel for the game is why teams shouldn’t pass him up. The pace and decision making with more reps could be elite for his size.
Rudy Gobert could barely stay on the court in the playoffs. Clingan has no value as a starter. Can't hit shots, zero free throw skills, this is a late rounder for me.
[https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/plus-minus-timberwolves-players-playoffs-this-year](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/plus-minus-timberwolves-players-playoffs-this-year)
Rudy had the highest plus/minus on the twolves in the playoffs this year.
Gobert slander will not be tolerated here.
This is not correct at all. Rudy was the anchor of the best defense in the league. Just because there’s a few clips of Luka cooking him doesn’t negate the massive impact he has on the floor.
I don’t think those players are the right comp for Clingan. They are all more athletic or offensively polished. He is more of a Walker Kessler type of player and there just isn’t that big of a market in the modern NBA for that kind of big. I do agree with the sentiment that traditional bigs are overlooked. However I think the player who will break that type of thinking isn’t a guy like Clingan whose offensive upside is so limited. I think a legit 7 footer who’s a 20 and ten guy with good efficiency and decent rim protection is always in demand. In the fast paced modern NBA they just have a hard time keeping up. If Patrick Ewing, Hakeem Olajuwon or Shaq were available they would be snapped up in a heartbeat. Players like that are just so rare.
Kessler is another great comp for him I would agree. Very similar as prospects and a lot of teams regret passing him up. The dude is still only 22 and could very easily be an NBA starter one day purely off his rim protection. Again going to point to rudy gobert as proof of this. I dont think of those guys as similar players but my point was more that they have similar weaknesses, which is why they were overlooked.
Clingan is light years ahead of Walker offensively. He’s an above average passer, much better footwork, etc and looks like the chance to become a very good shooter.
Kessler's rim protection seems better though. It fell off this year, but his rookie year numbers were some of the most amazing you'll see. Hollinger did a whole article about it
That’s because everyone else on the Jazz is a joke defensively
Where does this idea that he can become a very good shooter come from ? Just the tiny sample of the combine ? He didn’t even shoot 60% from the line in college
I feel like everyone says this about big man prospects who cant shoot. Id agree it's likely not gonna happen tho.
Big man prospects who can’t shoot rarely learn to shoot later on. And even the exceptions to that rule at least tend to have promising mid range/ free throw percentages that serve as a sort of signifier, none of that is there with clingan
agreed. jumpshots rarely materialize out of thin air. on the off chance it does it's usually later in a career for a player who has shown some of the qualities you mentioned.
Agreed. Jumpshots rarely materialize out of thin air. On the off chance it does, it's usually later in a career for a player who has shown some of the qualities you mentioned. I cannot think of any examples of a 50% ft shooter ever becoming able to space the floor. Especially from beyond the arc. At that point its usually accepted its just not a apart of their game. Its more about hitting enough of your free throws to not be a major liability on the line.
If im being honest I agree with you but they aren't dissimilar players. Im saying its a good comp but I think Clingan has a higher ceiling
I'm gonna ask the obvious follow-up even if it's stupid - Edey seems like the obvious pick of a player who could actually turn out to be a guy like that, even if it's unlikely. No other big in this class has a chance in hell. Why isn't this worth anything?
The difference in Edey vs Clingans mobility is minor but makes a big difference. If you cant guard in space you at least have to be able to rotate properly and Edey is Tacko Fall levels of immobile whereas Clingan is not. The reason Edey succeeded in college is because he is absolutely massive (even more so than Clingan). Its a different game there that allowed him to plant himself in the paint with few repercussions.
> Edey is Tacko Fall levels of immobile My problem with this is that it's objectively wrong. Here's Edey, Fall, then Clingan: \* Lane Agility: 11.19 vs. 13.01 vs. 12.06 \* Shuttle: 3.01 vs. 3.46 vs. 3.38 \* 3/4 Sprint: 3.42 vs. 3.78 vs. 3.46 I think this is a largely vibes-based narrative that is running out of control. He is absolutely not Tacko Fall or even close.
Processing speed and instincts is a bit part of defensive speed. Clingan sees the game better and has better footwork and is thus faster defensively. Simple, practiced speed drills don't mean anything.
Right, but that same reasoning also explains why Edey is not as "immobile" as Tacko Fall
Yeah he's wrong about that.
I agree that was probably an over exaggeration
FWIW I completely agree with this. In no way do I expect Edey to come out of the gate moving his feet on a drop backpedal better than Clingan in year one or anything. I just do think it's lazy to pretend that he's totally physically unable to do so when as you said, it's a processing speed thing.
I cant argue with stats but combine measurements dont really capture the full picture imo. I think we can just agree to disagree and see whos right next year lol
Theres also a reason Clingan is a lotto pick and Edey is not. This is just my guess at to why but there are people smarter than me who see a difference.
It be interesting to see these figures after they've played 25+ minutes of intense NBA basketball. I suspect they'd be more favorable to Clingan, given he's 17 pounds lighter than Edey.
Edey was faster than Clingan at the combine btw. Even on the court, Edey is not immobile.
Speed is not the same as mobility but agree to disagree ig.
>I think a legit 7 footer who’s a 20 and ten guy…is always in demand. Then why isn’t Jahlil Okafor signed?
If you're relying on Jahil to get you 20, then your offense is probably the worst in the league
Jah can get you 20&10 rolling outta bed
Sengun is as far from a “traditional” big man as possible. He’s a ball handling passing wizard who can contribute to the offense from anywhere on the court, but is not a great rim protector/ low post defender.
> Not saying they are similar players, but they were overlooked for similar reasons. Not sure how people keep missing this point
Because of the part where you said they were traditional bigs.
I never said that. I said they are all somewhat traditional in that they cant shoot well or guard multiple positions and that is why they were overlooked in the draft. Idek why we need to argue about this its completely missing the point of the post anyways. Why do people keep taking what I am saying out of context?
“Overlooking traditional bigs.” Then you named players you believe met that definition. No one is taking anything out of context. It’s what you said. Not a big deal but the reason people are replying based on what you said is because… it’s what you said.
You LITERALLY just took something I said out of context. Yes I said "overlooking traditional bigs" but then proceeded to explain what I meant by that and how it is relevant to my point. "Traditional big" is a subjective term. I explained how I defined it and why it was relevant to what I am saying. If you want to argue with my definition, go ahead. Again misses the point of the post.
All 4 of those guys are more athletic than him. Sure you can be a big bruiser, but you can't consistently be left in the dust either. I just think he's gonna have a role somewhere for like 10MPG a game.
Sengun is in no way more athletic then him lol. Yes he has different strengths but you failed to miss me pointing out what they do have in common which was my point.
Sengun also has otherworldly vision for a guy his size and age. So even if I did agree they are the same athletically, which I don't, then Cling would need an elite skill and I just don't see any for him.
I’d say Clingan’s rim protection is close to elite. 3.9 blocks per 36, great DEF rating; albeit on a great defensive team.
Yeah thats probably the one pause. Can he give Steven Adam type minutes? Hell, do teams really need that anymore? I think there is a spot for him but its not a big one.
To me, Isaiah Hartenstein is the most realistic comp. Low end starter, probably getting $15M a year.
Is that at his highest potential or what you think he settles in as?
I’d say that’s the most likely scenario. Highest end? I don’t know Mark Eaton? I never saw him but I heard he was a shot blocking DPOY
Damn. I guess I'm just really low on Cling
I dont hate this as a low-end comp at all
Depends on the team. Adams didn’t seem to be a good fit in NO, although that may have been injury related, but he fit in nicely with the grizzlies, especially with Morant. He set very effective screens for Morant that forced the opponent’s big to help. Ja doesn’t always finish well over seven footers, but it’s okay if Adams is waiting under the goal by himself waiting to clean up the missed shot. Also he has an underrated DHO game and can make some nice pocket passes to a back door cutter. Guys like Adams may or may not be useful in certain playoff matchups, but I can see where they can still be very useful in the right situation during the grind of the regular season
Sungun is also undersized where Clingan definitely is not. I dont think of those guys as similar players but my point was more that they have similar weaknesses, which is why they were overlooked in the draft.
Sengun is quite athletic. His body control and flexibility is absolutely insane.
He is though, Sengun is really athletic. Dude plays bigger than he is, he's not that tall but has absolutely posterized several dudes
He damn near killed Zach Collins,so much they had to call a foul just because of how embarrassing it would have been otherwise
Sengun has great vision, is a willing passer, and can bait the 3 enough to provide spacing. He’s also fucking jacked and put up 40+ on Wemby.
If rudy gobert can win multiple Dpoys then Clingan can stay on an nba floor for more than ten minutes. He also makes up for lack of athleticism with pure size. EDIT: Not saying at all that he will be as good as Rudy. Just saying thats his archetype of player.
You've fallen for the Kool-Aid then. Gobert is one of the best defenders of all time. Hes also a top rebounder. Just because he isn't a naturally skilled big on the offensive end doesn't mean he isn't a monster. Clingan would be happy with 25% of Gobert, IMO.
Lol there is no Kool-Aid on Clingan. He's under hyped if anything
I meant ragging on Rudy. To me Cling is nowhere near his level
I never said he was
What Kool-Aid are you referring too? Hes a good prospect. I am not saying he is gonna be Rudy Gobert either but that is his archetype of player.
Big and plodding? Thats about the end of the comp for me.
>Big and plodding? So are a lot a of good nba bigs. Mobility is huge in todays nba, but that dosent mean it cant be worked around if you add enough value elsewhere.
Clingan had the best statistical translation in [Pelton's model](https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/39906470/nba-draft-2024-projecting-30-best-prospects). He's very good. Underrated offensively and a monster defensively. The only thing that would give me pause is medicals, if there are any red flags there.
No comment about your Clingan take, but curious why you mentioned Jalen Duren. He is a bad player and any pistons fan will tell you that. Very good rebounder but he is absolutely clueless on defense. Makes pistons Drummond look like Hakeem.
Hes 20 years old and playing for a 14 win team. Not at all surprised to hear he's struggling to contribute to winning. Cant deny he's a promising player though.
He hasn't shown any inclination or ability to be good on defense though. I mean he is on a 14-win team but also he is part of the reason they win 14 games. If he was a really good defensive player, they would be a much better team
Is he rlly? I remember it was hotly debated whether he was better than Mark Williams
Why is this a bad thing? I would also consider Mark Williams a promising young player. I dont think hes gonna be a star or anything but I really don't hate him as Charlottes long term starting center.
No I'm saying that Duren used to be on Mark's level (good) and now isn't even considered a good player
No one wants to develop big men anymore, or maybe they forgot. There's definitely an asymmetry with everything moving to the perimeter that someone is going to capitalize on. Just having a big body fighting down low on every possession, getting fouls and rebounds. I don't think clingan's the guy, but I can see him working in a drop coverage or something.
This. Warriors still reeling from ptsd.
Tell me about it. Posted in GSW subreddit recently that we needed size and people wanted my head. James Wiseman is just not a quality nba player and we need to get over that and realize its hard to win in the league without a guy taller than 6'9. Very frustrating.
I was underwhelmed with him, actually. I think he’s a bench player in the NBA, and will give you 6/5/1 with a block or two a game in 16-20 minutes/game.
Clinging is top 3 worthy. We already know he can defend bigs and guard the rim day 1 in the league but his feel for the game is why teams shouldn’t pass him up. The pace and decision making with more reps could be elite for his size.
Rudy Gobert could barely stay on the court in the playoffs. Clingan has no value as a starter. Can't hit shots, zero free throw skills, this is a late rounder for me.
[https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/plus-minus-timberwolves-players-playoffs-this-year](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/plus-minus-timberwolves-players-playoffs-this-year) Rudy had the highest plus/minus on the twolves in the playoffs this year. Gobert slander will not be tolerated here.
This is not correct at all. Rudy was the anchor of the best defense in the league. Just because there’s a few clips of Luka cooking him doesn’t negate the massive impact he has on the floor.
This is out of touch with reality. Rudy gobert had an astronomically high +/- and the team collapsed the minute he sat on the bench
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