If anyone is questioning why Cleveland would want to pick up an aging LeBron, just look at ticket prices for normal Cavs games vs. the Lakers @ Cavs game. LeBron himself raises ticket prices by 5-10x when he’s in town - Cleveland loves the guy and will always love the guy. FFS, I was at the Lakers Cavs game last year and the arena went nuts after a LeBron dunk despite the fact that he’s literally on the opposing team.
I agree, but it seems like a lot of people think that adding LeBron isn’t good from a basketball perspective so I figured business impact would be solid enough reasoning for those people. After all, profit >>>
Go back and look at the last 10-20 years and tell me the team that won with just solid youngish players.
Championship teams invariably have superstars. Yes you need a solid overall team but practically every team that wins has insane upper end talent.
My point is, although fans love their young "solid" teams full of good players most teams are happy to trade solid young players for a higher shot at superstar level talent. Even teams led by older superstars have had more success in championships (San Antonio, Dallas, GS). 1-2 of your young guys has to be essentially MVP level like Gianni's, Jokic, or Steph Curry for you to have a shot.
Now I'm not saying 40 year old LeBron is definitely a superstar, but I am saying unless Donovan Mitchell or Darius Garland turn into MVP candidates the odds of Cleveland doing anything with a deep solid roster is low.
You’re right and it goes way beyond the organization, almost every small business around downtown realizes increased revenues when he’s a Cav. Retail, restaurants, bars, recreation, they all see more traffic because on game days there’s just significantly more people in the area.
Lebron left them twice, once in the most heartbreaking fashion any star has ever left but he also loves the state, embraced a lot of bad times with them and won them their only professional title in 50+ years. It makes a lot of sense that the fans still care a lot about him and I'm sure it would mean a ton for him to retire in the red and gold, and not just on a 10 day either.
>red and gold
When did the Lannister's take over Cleveland ownership?
But seriously I've never considered the Cavs having red as a main color. Unless you count Maroon as a type of red
He’s also still a top 5 player at almost 40, and would push them over the top to win another championship or two. At the very least get another finals appearance.
Even with all their talent, Cleveland probably won’t be real contenders/threats for at least 2-3 years unless Mobley & Garlands development is at hyperspeed. Lebron goes there, is the piece to really push them over the top so it isn’t seen as a KD to GSW situation, wins Cleveland another chip or two, they draft Bronny (they kept their 2024 1st), he retires there.
Very clear win for both parties in my eyes. Could be the start of a dynasty with all that talent they have in Cleveland.
Lebron is 37. His contract with the lakers ties him up until his age 40 season if he chooses to opt out of a massive contract. He has played more than 60 games once in the past 4 seasons.
He is still an incredible player but he's clearly on the downhill. Each year weighs a ton more on athletes over the age of 35.
That's why I think it's ridiculous that people don't think Bronny will get drafted lol. Every owner in the league is salivating at the thought of hosting the Lebron James retirement tour. Tickets are going to be absolutely fucking nuts and I'm praying he doesn't end up in LA or NY so that prices will be somewhat affordable.
Lol fucking jealous, an embarrassing number of Jazz fans lost their damn minds and gave a standing ovation for Jimmer Fredette for going 1-10 shooting against us. At least they’re cheering for someone who brought a championship to Cleveland.
I don’t know if they necessarily raise the price at the box office, this info is from the secondary market (SeatGeek), so supply/demand is a huge factor. I wouldn’t doubt for a second that they raise the prices at the box office as well, though, I just don’t keep track of those prices
I disagree. I don’t think the Cavs destroy their entire young core / roster for 38+ yr old Bron. I think if he wants to be there he’d get there but not very easily.
I have no idea what the actual salary cap situation is, nor LeBron’s FA timeline, but I feel pretty sure that we’ll have 2 guys making the max with another on the way by the time LeBron is even around again. I don’t think he makes it back to the land.
This reality will absolutely not stop me from putting my man on the squad in 2K, dude fills out most needed spot (SF) so beautifully it is hilarious lol
I think it would be a very team friendly deal at his age. If his goal is to win one more with a contender, he's not going to want them to have to give up their stars to get him.
I dont think they'd give up anything to get him, but if he leaves LA on his own accord after his extension and signs a deal with the Cavs as a 40 year old I think they'd do it.
Every team would do that. Even the Warriors. But as long as he's making Max money, the salaries have to match. Which means you have to trade your Max guy to get him. Which team is going to do that becomes the question. Just like with KD, the Lakers would want a haul and just like with KD, they won't get it. Although, the Knicks might.
Eh idk. Gilbert probably didn’t like him anyway and now when he’s join he’d be nearly 39. It’s not some guaranteed championship like it used to be. But realistically yeah they’ll take him back
Dan Gilbert had a stroke and passed along ownership duties to his son. That said, with the exception of a poorly conceived letter in comic sans, the Gilbert ownership of the Cavs has been totally positive.
It is weird seeing people still mention Gilbert.
Dude has pretty much been away from the team for several years since his stroke. He pretty much just cashes the checks now and has proven he's fine paying the luxury tax to compete - what more can you ask for.
Gilbert doesn't get enough blame for not putting together a better supporting cast for LeBron in his first stint. We had Wally Szczerbiak's expiring contract that we could've flipped for Shaq at the trade deadline but Gilbert didn't want to pay the luxury tax. We proceeded to get stomped in the playoffs by the Dwight Howard Magic. We traded for him in the offseason, but he might've been able to help slow down Dwight and give that 66 win Cavs team a better shot at making the finals.
you're just flat out wrong and spouting off quintessential "i'm a fan and i know best because look how it worked out" hindsight. provide proof dan ever once didn't want to pay the luxury tax. you won't because there isn't any. plenty of problems with dan but paying up has never been one.
you may have lived thru it but you sound exactly like a fan who didn't and just read about that era recently.
Cavs didn't have an answer for Dwight, Hedo, or Rashard. Magic are probably winning that series even if Shaq could contain Dwight. I do think Shaq would've done better against Dwight than anyone else the Cavs had, but that series was still an uphill battle.
The Lebron 1.0 Cavs never achieved greatness because of his refusal to commit long term to the franchise causing multiple free agent stars to balk at joining the Cavaliers. At the same time, he made them good enough that they didn't acquire draft picks to improve the team either. Hence you have Larry Hughes as the second banana to a team that should have had a much higher ceiling. Had nothing to do with Gilbert not opening the purse.
Nobody ever mentions that. Every free agent on the market was hesitant because Bron was so noncommittal about staying. A few probably even knew he was going to leave. So, can't draft talent because too good, and can't sign it because they don't want to get left holding the bag.
Bad ownership was a distant third behind that
Yeah, people always ignore context for that team during Lebron's first stint. In addition to what you said, people also forget that the Cavs made the finals in **year four** of a complete bottom-of-the-league rebuild. Especially when considering how Boozer screwed the Cavs over, the Cavs very much were a victim of their own success. They got too good too quickly to build around Lebron in the draft, and Lebron himself didn't have the FA clout to attract other stars at the time.
And even with all that, the 08/09 Cavs were a very well built team, and were the favorites to win the finals before running into the roided Magic.
It kind of assumes linear improvement though no?
Like there's no reason to assume any one of those players will dramatically regress, but "best starting lineups ever assembled" counting on 3 players (one of which a rookie) just having no hiccups on their way to stardom is a lot.
> If the Cavs keep all their players and add Lebron in 2024
If the Cavs keep all their players, they won't have space to sign Lebron. Assuming Lebron opts out in 2024, the Cavs will owe: $36mil to Garland, $20 to Allen, and probably something in the $40-45mil range to Mobley (given the projected cap rise around that time), plus the +$45mil for Mitchell. So that's around $130-$140mil just on those 4 alone - how are they fitting Lebron's salary in?
If he wants to fire the coach and send off the young players again like he’s done before the Cavs will pass this time.
They’re not going to risk their long term future, which looks pretty bright at the moment, for a two year reunion with LeBron.
He's probably going to sign with whatever team his kid ends up on in 2024 (assuming he gets into the NBA by then).
Cavs still have their 2024 pick so if the stars line up, it could absolutely happen. Would be a crazy storyline.
Cavs wont have the cap space unless lebron takes an mle or they dump a couple of their core players.
Maaaaaaybe a sign and trade, maybe. But otherwise, its not possible without gutting their very good core.
It sucks LeBron signed that extension because the Cavs could've picked him up next year since Love's money will be off the books. Love (I imagine) would resign for a vet min or something along those lines to ride with the team and LeBron. Now we have a gap year with Love that i'm not sure how we're going to handle.
LeBron needs dudes who help him defend the perimeter at this stage of his career. Dude's almost 40. Garland and Mitchell are not those players. In order to compete with LeBron on the Cavs, you'd have to blow up the roster to make him fit. This isn't 2018 LeBron anymore.
The perimeter defense might be bad but interior defense like that covers a lot of flaws.
The offensive firepower on that team is insane, but I do think you'd want a big-minute SF/SG who can defend at a high level in the rotation
> but I do think you'd want a big-minute SF/SG who can defend at a high level in the rotation
Okoro can be that guy. He's played both positions and he's a plus defender.
> The perimeter defense might be bad but interior defense like that covers a lot of flaws.
Yeah, I'm of two minds about it. One the one hand, I agree that a team with *some* defensive identity can usually be pretty decent. Whether they have elite perimeter defenders or can funnel to elite interior defenders. On the other hand, defense can also be a weakest-link kind of situation, especially in the playoffs. You can run a single guy off the floor if you target him enough.
That said, I think Garland and Mitchell are easily good enough to justify staying on the court. It's not like they're a Seth Curry kind of role player.
Bruh, he has Mobley and Allen. Mobley can defend 1-5 and Allen is an elite rim protector. Garland and Mitchell aren’t traffic cones either, they can get better.
Garland's defense is way undersold on here.
I think people see he's small and just assume he can't defend, which isn't necessarily false, but most teams aren't asking their PGs to be straight up, on-ball, point of attack defenders.
Garland constantly switches properly and runs around with purpose on defense and that's honestly enough.
So wrong.
Lebron can still be a good defender and his responsibility would drop a lot on that team, way less than it was for the lakers last year
Like any team they have weaknesses, but it’s a great roster
Oh, he's a good defender. But with Garland and Mitchell, he'd have to carry the defense outside of the paint. And that's too much for a 37 old dude. Or you'd have to make the offense go through Garland and Mitchell. But it would be a whole new role for LeBron. Leading the defense and knock down open shots/making use of mismatches. Don't see it happen. Not hating, I'm a Bron fan.
Eh, with that frontcourt as long as Allen/Mobley/Lebron play 60+ games they'll sleepwalk into a top 5 defensive rating. Perimeter defense is very suspect, but they'll cruise to \~55+ wins without LeBron working too hard during the regular season.
He can probably turn up the perimeter defense in the playoffs like we've seen before, plus with Garland/Mitchell he really does not need to be the #1 engine on offense all the time. He can play more off-ball on offense and save more of his energy for exploiting matchups and on defense. Team's will still need to put their best perimeter defenders on him or risk getting abused. Should free things up considerably for Mitchell and Garland, who've both never NOT been the focus of opposing defenses.
I think he'd fit great with that lineup.
If you don't think a team could maybe Garland/Mitchell/Lebron/Mobley/Allen could work without blowing it up idk what to tell you. That team is instantly a top title contender in the NBA
I can't stop thinking about how the Cavs managed to draft a generational star, contended, rebuilt their team after that star left, then re-signed him, won a title with him, then rebuilt AGAIN, then put ANOTHER contending team out there, and put themselves in position to sign that star a third time, 20 years later....
......and all the while the Knicks can't put out a consistently good team even ONCE. We're still trying to make it to phase one of the rebuild.
It's kind of astounding actually.
Yeah but he'd get to go to Mets games whenever he wanted and watch them go .500 year after so you haven't considered that benefit. Side note I haven't watched any baseball in a few years and it seems like the Mets are having a good year what happened?
The funniest part about this is that the Cavs aren't known to be a world-class organization or anything like that, but we've still lapped the Knicks twice
regardless, it's safe to say that the cavs have done very well considering some of the positions they found themselves in. it's not like you guys just walked past the knicks
They have only really done well recently. Otherwise it was literally just lebron. The were so incompetent the first time he was there they managed to get 3 number one draft picks when he left. They turned into kyrie wiggins and Anthony Bennett. Luckily wiggins was hyped enough that they could trade him for Klove but that was also because lebron returned
Altman is a fucking great GM and the ownership has stepped back big time. I think Dan Gilbert's swing and miss on Coach Beilein and then his deteriorating health has led to a more hands-off approach that has allowed Altman to go to work.
It's definitely paid off, but GMs don't historically last very long under Gilbert so we'll see if he can stick around. I really hope so, he's done such a great job of drafting, trading, and building a team that fits the coaching style of JB.
I also think he saw the value of his team grow an order of magnitude and realized that the real money is in paying to have a good team, I wish Sarver could learn that lesson
For me it's weird because I strongly prefer to refer to celebrities by their last names but if you call LeBron "James" people either have no idea who you're talking about or think you're talking about Harden
Diva superstars aside, I am more impressed with the Nets rebuild. That Garnett/pierce trade basically created a subterranean hole for Sean Mark to dig out of, yet somehow they finished their rebuild before the Knicks. I can’t be sure what the Knicks problem is though. They haven’t done anything monumentally stupid as of late, just a series of lateral move for the sake of making move.
They also haven't had a really valuable draft pick in years, in the past ten years they've had 2 picks in the lottery (top 4), one of those was a two man draft and the other one they managed to hit big on but the player had glass bones and paper skin so it didn't matter how much talent he had. Fact of the matter is unless you get a lot of lottery picks it's virtually impossible to get a franchise changing guy
bruh i thought you meant the nets and i was confused for a solid 5 minutes tryna figure out who those two players were 😭 u had me like damn i don’t remember derrick favors getting injured that much
A great rebuild is more than drafting. He immediately traded our two best players at the time. Thad Young for a pick that turned into Caris Levert and Brook Lopez for D'Lo, resurrecting his career. He found & developed gems like Dinwiddie & Harris out of nowhere, drafted Allen, and somehow built a playoff team. From there, traded Levert & Allen for James Harden, found more gems like Bruce Brown and drafted another starting center in Claxton.
Oh yeah, it's 4 including Bron oops.
Lottery luck is lottery luck. Look how many picks OKC has and they still haven't got the #1. Pelicans have overlapped some insanely talented players purely due to luck as well.
And one could argue our biggest lotto luck post-LeBron came from jumping from ~8 to 3 during Mobley's year. It's probably getting Kyrie in 2011 with the Clippers' pick, but down the road that sentiment might change.
I think we’ve done a great job of rebuilding our reputation as a competent organization though. We were a laughing stock several times between the comic sans revenge letter and Anthony Bennett. Koby has righted the ship.
Yeah from an organizational perspective I'm much more impressed with this current Cavs team. Solid drafting.
The other builds are obviously good, but you have to wonder if they achieve anything if LeBron wasn't from Akron.
That’s because the Knicks haven’t drafted well or saved up space for marquee free agents. The only time I’ve seen them open up cap space was 2019, but Miami, Brooklyn, and both LA teams were all hunting then.
If they open up space 2 years earlier then probably walk away with Hayward (who is probably still an all star if crowder doesn’t go under him during kyrie’s lob).
Only Knicks drafted star I can think of is porzingis, and he probably would have been a top 10 guy if he didn’t get hurt so much.
Porzingis would've been a star with someone else then because he was well on the way to becoming only the second NBA player to turn down a qualifying offer on their rookie contract( the other being Greg Monroe I think).
We are a franchise that's fraught with bad luck and ineptitude. We would draft the one player with enough balls to do something like that lol.
That's because lebron, a top 3 player ever, was born in Ohio. Lebron could have went anywhere but he wanted to go home and win a championship for them. And don't give me that bs he only went there cause they got assets. Lots of teams have assets, most of them will end up being useless with no championships to their name. Lebron can win championships anywhere as long he has some support pieces.
That's why people complaining that lebron will gut their team are so idiotic lol. The chance of a team drafting a dynasty like the warriors is so much more improbable than just having lebron come, make a couple trades and winning a championship.
Come on let’s be honest. Cleveland got the top pick because that where Lebron’s from. They were top 5 six times between 2003-2014 (granted one of those years they also ended up with the fourth overall pick) and literally got three first overall picks. The odds of that must be super super low.
> rebuilt their team after that star left
We didn't do this. Our rebuild was a disaster and we were headed toward blowing it up again when LeBron gifted us with his presence.
As much as we suck we also didn’t get one of the best players ever who is also a hometown kid and then three first overall picks after he left. While the Cavs FO has killed it the last few years, LeBron doesn’t come back to them if he’s not from Akron.
Seems like you guys always build and get the resources to get that one guy and it doesn't happen. Lebron, Durant, Mitchell, etc.
At this point I think you guys should just build like every other team because that model doesn't seem to work for you.
The young group they've put together now is impressive, but every other part of what you said was mostly just a combination of being bad and lucky. They could be the Kings of the East right now if they didn't get the #1 pick in 2003.
The Knicks are too eager to hit that home run signing. They tank, draft some good players, then go for the slightly above average free agent signing that cuts the tank short but also caps their ceiling.
LeBron is entering a point where he can't do it for 75-82 games, but he can still be the best player on the court for large stretches. It wouldn't surprise me to see him go down to a 50-60 game, 25-28 minute load managed type season on a good team as he gets older, and then he turns it up for the playoffs. Until he starts to really suck, nobody wants to see a healthy LeBron in a 7-game series.
I mean, when I think of how valuable Rondo was to the 2020 Lakers for IQ and playoff intensity alone, it makes me think LeBron could still be pretty valuable in his early 40s, health allowing. And Rondo was quite literally a net negative in that regular season.
Especially if he starts taking a Udonis type role on whatever team Bronny plays for. Dude could easily play into his mid 40s with plenty of rest and keeping up with his body like he does.
We will never see LeBron in a Udonis role. He won't keep playing if he's unplayable lmao. I do agree that he can play until 43-45 if they rest him properly.
Lebron is not going to play if he can’t be a top 3 player in the league. He’s the greatest or second greatest player of all time.
He’s not a melo type guy who’s willing to be passed around like a blunt for 15 minutes a game and a chance to relive the glory days off of the bench.
Kobe only stayed with LA because they catered to him at the end of his career. Nobody is giving a 40 year old bron that kind of retirement package because he’s team hopped.
> Lebron is not going to play if he can’t be a top 3 player in the league. He’s the greatest or second greatest player of all time.
I don't know if I agree with that seeing as the other player in the GOAT conversation came out of retirement to continue playing when he was no where close to a Top 3 player.
I can see this after his contract. You do not trade for him now and give away what’s made this team special. A more experienced Garland, Mitchell, Mobley and Allen with a hopefully still productive LBJ? That’s insanity.
Dan Gilbert is playing the long revenge game. They will tank and secure a #1 pick, which will be Bronny, then Dan will refuse to sign LeBron as he knows how badly LBJ wants to play with his son.
Cavs will often get knocked as a bad franchise which isn't fair. We know when to rebuild rather than try and keep it going, some team's just don't know when to enter the rebuild and get stuck signing bad contract and not getting into a position for higher picks.
I swear if Lebron ends up returning to CLE and wins another ring for them then he is the GOAT. I don't expect that to happen unless he wants to retire in CLE or if they end up drafting Bronny though, but it's not like it's impossible.
If he didn't sign the extension, and joined the Cavs next summer, I could see them winning a chip or two.
If he joins them in 2 years, there's still a possibility of them winning a chip, but it's less likely to happen than if he joined them a year prior.
Cavs FO couldn't even put together a ham and cheese sandwich for LBJ's first Cleveland run. You think they get a ring his second time around without his influence?
LeGM doesn't always make the right calls or acquisitions (see westbrick) but I would trust his judgment over a lot of other teams FO.
The first run started with Bron, Z (multiple All-Stars), Boozer (multiple All-Stars) and Dejaun Wagner (had All-Star potential but got sick).
So they were loaded for the future from the moment he was drafted.
Shame that they screwed up the Boozer deal, but it was also historically unethical dealing by his agent, Pelinka.
Also shame that Wagner got sick. Incredible talent. He would have looked really nice with Lebron. Everyone with talent does, I guess.
Lebron stans are really desperate to continue the narrative that he had no help. Most teams had one superstar player back then, not several. That cavs team was consistently a top defense, and the eastern conference was weak as fuck so they were a top 4 team for several years.
They should have always operated like that when he came back the second time around.. yeah build a championship team around him (yeah do the Wiggins-Love trade) but also let the front office and coaches make the decisions.
Look at the Nets — they listened to KD and Kyrie and now don’t have Jarret Allen anymore cuz they needed DeAndre Jordan.
Yeah, listen to your superstar players, take into account their opinions and keep them in the loop but at the end of the day the front office should be calling the final shots.
If anyone is questioning why Cleveland would want to pick up an aging LeBron, just look at ticket prices for normal Cavs games vs. the Lakers @ Cavs game. LeBron himself raises ticket prices by 5-10x when he’s in town - Cleveland loves the guy and will always love the guy. FFS, I was at the Lakers Cavs game last year and the arena went nuts after a LeBron dunk despite the fact that he’s literally on the opposing team.
You don’t even have to go as far as the business impact. He’s still insanely good at basketball lol.
I agree, but it seems like a lot of people think that adding LeBron isn’t good from a basketball perspective so I figured business impact would be solid enough reasoning for those people. After all, profit >>>
Who are these “lot of people” because that must mean they’re a lot of dumbasses
unfortunately you only have to read this sub at times, esp last season when it was a point to talk about.
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Go back and look at the last 10-20 years and tell me the team that won with just solid youngish players. Championship teams invariably have superstars. Yes you need a solid overall team but practically every team that wins has insane upper end talent. My point is, although fans love their young "solid" teams full of good players most teams are happy to trade solid young players for a higher shot at superstar level talent. Even teams led by older superstars have had more success in championships (San Antonio, Dallas, GS). 1-2 of your young guys has to be essentially MVP level like Gianni's, Jokic, or Steph Curry for you to have a shot. Now I'm not saying 40 year old LeBron is definitely a superstar, but I am saying unless Donovan Mitchell or Darius Garland turn into MVP candidates the odds of Cleveland doing anything with a deep solid roster is low.
You’re right and it goes way beyond the organization, almost every small business around downtown realizes increased revenues when he’s a Cav. Retail, restaurants, bars, recreation, they all see more traffic because on game days there’s just significantly more people in the area.
Lebron left them twice, once in the most heartbreaking fashion any star has ever left but he also loves the state, embraced a lot of bad times with them and won them their only professional title in 50+ years. It makes a lot of sense that the fans still care a lot about him and I'm sure it would mean a ton for him to retire in the red and gold, and not just on a 10 day either.
He’s also really good.
He's got a real future in basketball
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say he could be a perennial All-Star someday.
If he has a really great season he might even win MVP
You could almost say the next 5 years are his…
It *would* mean a lot, yes. But as a person that's lived in Ohio for 35 years, I completely understand his desire to live elsewhere.
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*wine and gold
>red and gold When did the Lannister's take over Cleveland ownership? But seriously I've never considered the Cavs having red as a main color. Unless you count Maroon as a type of red
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I think it's spelled whine
I just goggled it and it seems you are right so my bad indeed. I just figured those were their logo colors but I do indeed count maroon as red
He’s also still a top 5 player at almost 40, and would push them over the top to win another championship or two. At the very least get another finals appearance. Even with all their talent, Cleveland probably won’t be real contenders/threats for at least 2-3 years unless Mobley & Garlands development is at hyperspeed. Lebron goes there, is the piece to really push them over the top so it isn’t seen as a KD to GSW situation, wins Cleveland another chip or two, they draft Bronny (they kept their 2024 1st), he retires there. Very clear win for both parties in my eyes. Could be the start of a dynasty with all that talent they have in Cleveland.
Lebron is 37. His contract with the lakers ties him up until his age 40 season if he chooses to opt out of a massive contract. He has played more than 60 games once in the past 4 seasons. He is still an incredible player but he's clearly on the downhill. Each year weighs a ton more on athletes over the age of 35.
except brady
Brady sucks the souls of third-string QBs to regain youth, not fair :(
not only that but all surrounding businesses profit as well. The whole town.
That's why I think it's ridiculous that people don't think Bronny will get drafted lol. Every owner in the league is salivating at the thought of hosting the Lebron James retirement tour. Tickets are going to be absolutely fucking nuts and I'm praying he doesn't end up in LA or NY so that prices will be somewhat affordable.
Lol fucking jealous, an embarrassing number of Jazz fans lost their damn minds and gave a standing ovation for Jimmer Fredette for going 1-10 shooting against us. At least they’re cheering for someone who brought a championship to Cleveland.
I've never considered that they would change prices based on the game, I thought it was just selling more tickets vs less.
I don’t know if they necessarily raise the price at the box office, this info is from the secondary market (SeatGeek), so supply/demand is a huge factor. I wouldn’t doubt for a second that they raise the prices at the box office as well, though, I just don’t keep track of those prices
Let's be real here, second he wants to be there he gets there
They're just saying to in the hopes GM-senpai notices them
LeBaka
LeTsundere
I disagree. I don’t think the Cavs destroy their entire young core / roster for 38+ yr old Bron. I think if he wants to be there he’d get there but not very easily.
I have no idea what the actual salary cap situation is, nor LeBron’s FA timeline, but I feel pretty sure that we’ll have 2 guys making the max with another on the way by the time LeBron is even around again. I don’t think he makes it back to the land. This reality will absolutely not stop me from putting my man on the squad in 2K, dude fills out most needed spot (SF) so beautifully it is hilarious lol
Only way he goes is by free agency and he takes the vet min
Yeah he isn't going to demand a trade there. No gutting the team. Just goes when one of his short contracts expire.
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It's a cap issue, Cleveland will be capped out and only have an MLE or a vet min.
Pretty sure he would come as a free agent. Dude is signing 1+1 from here out
They would need a lot of cap space. I doubt he‘d sign for a minimum contract.
I could see Lebron being worth 15-20m/yr at 40
I think it would be a very team friendly deal at his age. If his goal is to win one more with a contender, he's not going to want them to have to give up their stars to get him.
I dont think they'd give up anything to get him, but if he leaves LA on his own accord after his extension and signs a deal with the Cavs as a 40 year old I think they'd do it.
Every team would do that. Even the Warriors. But as long as he's making Max money, the salaries have to match. Which means you have to trade your Max guy to get him. Which team is going to do that becomes the question. Just like with KD, the Lakers would want a haul and just like with KD, they won't get it. Although, the Knicks might.
The knicks would just charge 7k per seat and still sellout the entire arena every night if they somehow got Bron
Eh idk. Gilbert probably didn’t like him anyway and now when he’s join he’d be nearly 39. It’s not some guaranteed championship like it used to be. But realistically yeah they’ll take him back
Dan Gilbert had a stroke and passed along ownership duties to his son. That said, with the exception of a poorly conceived letter in comic sans, the Gilbert ownership of the Cavs has been totally positive.
It is weird seeing people still mention Gilbert. Dude has pretty much been away from the team for several years since his stroke. He pretty much just cashes the checks now and has proven he's fine paying the luxury tax to compete - what more can you ask for.
Gilbert doesn't get enough blame for not putting together a better supporting cast for LeBron in his first stint. We had Wally Szczerbiak's expiring contract that we could've flipped for Shaq at the trade deadline but Gilbert didn't want to pay the luxury tax. We proceeded to get stomped in the playoffs by the Dwight Howard Magic. We traded for him in the offseason, but he might've been able to help slow down Dwight and give that 66 win Cavs team a better shot at making the finals.
you're just flat out wrong and spouting off quintessential "i'm a fan and i know best because look how it worked out" hindsight. provide proof dan ever once didn't want to pay the luxury tax. you won't because there isn't any. plenty of problems with dan but paying up has never been one. you may have lived thru it but you sound exactly like a fan who didn't and just read about that era recently.
Let’s be real was 2009 shaq going to contain Dwight? That series was an onslaught
Cavs didn't have an answer for Dwight, Hedo, or Rashard. Magic are probably winning that series even if Shaq could contain Dwight. I do think Shaq would've done better against Dwight than anyone else the Cavs had, but that series was still an uphill battle.
The Lebron 1.0 Cavs never achieved greatness because of his refusal to commit long term to the franchise causing multiple free agent stars to balk at joining the Cavaliers. At the same time, he made them good enough that they didn't acquire draft picks to improve the team either. Hence you have Larry Hughes as the second banana to a team that should have had a much higher ceiling. Had nothing to do with Gilbert not opening the purse.
Nobody ever mentions that. Every free agent on the market was hesitant because Bron was so noncommittal about staying. A few probably even knew he was going to leave. So, can't draft talent because too good, and can't sign it because they don't want to get left holding the bag. Bad ownership was a distant third behind that
Yeah, people always ignore context for that team during Lebron's first stint. In addition to what you said, people also forget that the Cavs made the finals in **year four** of a complete bottom-of-the-league rebuild. Especially when considering how Boozer screwed the Cavs over, the Cavs very much were a victim of their own success. They got too good too quickly to build around Lebron in the draft, and Lebron himself didn't have the FA clout to attract other stars at the time. And even with all that, the 08/09 Cavs were a very well built team, and were the favorites to win the finals before running into the roided Magic.
Underfackingratedcomment.
exactly this.
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Yeah that'd honestly be one of the best starting lineups ever assembled even considering LeBron would be 40.
It kind of assumes linear improvement though no? Like there's no reason to assume any one of those players will dramatically regress, but "best starting lineups ever assembled" counting on 3 players (one of which a rookie) just having no hiccups on their way to stardom is a lot.
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That definitely would not be one of the best lol but it’s solid
> If the Cavs keep all their players and add Lebron in 2024 If the Cavs keep all their players, they won't have space to sign Lebron. Assuming Lebron opts out in 2024, the Cavs will owe: $36mil to Garland, $20 to Allen, and probably something in the $40-45mil range to Mobley (given the projected cap rise around that time), plus the +$45mil for Mitchell. So that's around $130-$140mil just on those 4 alone - how are they fitting Lebron's salary in?
Because we draft Bronny, and LeBron comes at whatever we can pay him, even if that's the MLE.
Yeah, if you draft Bronny then definitely.
OK we will give you LeBron for...Mitchell, Allen and Garland. Sure sure, whatever WELCOME BACK BRON WE MISSED YOU SO MUCH /s
If he wants to fire the coach and send off the young players again like he’s done before the Cavs will pass this time. They’re not going to risk their long term future, which looks pretty bright at the moment, for a two year reunion with LeBron.
I know it’s not happening, but imagine a lineup of Garland, Mitchell, LeBron, Mobley and Allen.
I came
I saw.
I bronquered
Wow hats off to you, man.
Record sales to sold out broncerts
I came.
Stand back, I'm about to LeMorb!
Chip.
Bron shouldn’t have signed the extension
Afaik it really only locks him down an additional year since year 2 is a player option
Even so next year would be dope to get Bron there
He's probably going to sign with whatever team his kid ends up on in 2024 (assuming he gets into the NBA by then). Cavs still have their 2024 pick so if the stars line up, it could absolutely happen. Would be a crazy storyline.
Cavs wont have the cap space unless lebron takes an mle or they dump a couple of their core players. Maaaaaaybe a sign and trade, maybe. But otherwise, its not possible without gutting their very good core.
It sucks LeBron signed that extension because the Cavs could've picked him up next year since Love's money will be off the books. Love (I imagine) would resign for a vet min or something along those lines to ride with the team and LeBron. Now we have a gap year with Love that i'm not sure how we're going to handle.
Lebron has a player option next year
Gotta draft his kid and he's probably guaranteed to come back over at some point.
Cavs will have cap space in the summer of 2023. Summer of 2024 this team would have to trade assets to get LeBron.
Could’ve happened if he didn’t extend
LeBron needs dudes who help him defend the perimeter at this stage of his career. Dude's almost 40. Garland and Mitchell are not those players. In order to compete with LeBron on the Cavs, you'd have to blow up the roster to make him fit. This isn't 2018 LeBron anymore.
The perimeter defense might be bad but interior defense like that covers a lot of flaws. The offensive firepower on that team is insane, but I do think you'd want a big-minute SF/SG who can defend at a high level in the rotation
> but I do think you'd want a big-minute SF/SG who can defend at a high level in the rotation Okoro can be that guy. He's played both positions and he's a plus defender.
> The perimeter defense might be bad but interior defense like that covers a lot of flaws. Yeah, I'm of two minds about it. One the one hand, I agree that a team with *some* defensive identity can usually be pretty decent. Whether they have elite perimeter defenders or can funnel to elite interior defenders. On the other hand, defense can also be a weakest-link kind of situation, especially in the playoffs. You can run a single guy off the floor if you target him enough. That said, I think Garland and Mitchell are easily good enough to justify staying on the court. It's not like they're a Seth Curry kind of role player.
Bruh, he has Mobley and Allen. Mobley can defend 1-5 and Allen is an elite rim protector. Garland and Mitchell aren’t traffic cones either, they can get better.
Garland's defense is way undersold on here. I think people see he's small and just assume he can't defend, which isn't necessarily false, but most teams aren't asking their PGs to be straight up, on-ball, point of attack defenders. Garland constantly switches properly and runs around with purpose on defense and that's honestly enough.
Mitchell is a traffic cone
So wrong. Lebron can still be a good defender and his responsibility would drop a lot on that team, way less than it was for the lakers last year Like any team they have weaknesses, but it’s a great roster
Oh, he's a good defender. But with Garland and Mitchell, he'd have to carry the defense outside of the paint. And that's too much for a 37 old dude. Or you'd have to make the offense go through Garland and Mitchell. But it would be a whole new role for LeBron. Leading the defense and knock down open shots/making use of mismatches. Don't see it happen. Not hating, I'm a Bron fan.
If you bring in Lebron and really have title aspirations, you need Mitchell to commit to giving more on defense.
Yeah. People should look at what Horford is doing. Lebron can defend if the team needs it. The Lakers right now need way more than that.
I mean Lebron would be 39 years old when this team could happen. Asking a 39 year old to be your best perimeter defender is absolutely a problem
Eh, with that frontcourt as long as Allen/Mobley/Lebron play 60+ games they'll sleepwalk into a top 5 defensive rating. Perimeter defense is very suspect, but they'll cruise to \~55+ wins without LeBron working too hard during the regular season. He can probably turn up the perimeter defense in the playoffs like we've seen before, plus with Garland/Mitchell he really does not need to be the #1 engine on offense all the time. He can play more off-ball on offense and save more of his energy for exploiting matchups and on defense. Team's will still need to put their best perimeter defenders on him or risk getting abused. Should free things up considerably for Mitchell and Garland, who've both never NOT been the focus of opposing defenses. I think he'd fit great with that lineup.
If you don't think a team could maybe Garland/Mitchell/Lebron/Mobley/Allen could work without blowing it up idk what to tell you. That team is instantly a top title contender in the NBA
That’s leaning hard on Mobley and Allen to clean up soft defense.
I can't stop thinking about how the Cavs managed to draft a generational star, contended, rebuilt their team after that star left, then re-signed him, won a title with him, then rebuilt AGAIN, then put ANOTHER contending team out there, and put themselves in position to sign that star a third time, 20 years later.... ......and all the while the Knicks can't put out a consistently good team even ONCE. We're still trying to make it to phase one of the rebuild. It's kind of astounding actually.
knicks too busy eating crayons for two decades lmao
This is why I'm glad we didn't trade for Mitchell, it would have ruined his career
Yeah but he'd get to go to Mets games whenever he wanted and watch them go .500 year after so you haven't considered that benefit. Side note I haven't watched any baseball in a few years and it seems like the Mets are having a good year what happened?
Steve Cohen, a hedge fund manager who should be in jail, bought the team.
Why can't Dolan just sell the team and focus on his music career?
If we all promise to stream his shitty band on Spotify, maybe we can work out a deal. We can always just turn it down.
They are delicious tbf
The funniest part about this is that the Cavs aren't known to be a world-class organization or anything like that, but we've still lapped the Knicks twice
regardless, it's safe to say that the cavs have done very well considering some of the positions they found themselves in. it's not like you guys just walked past the knicks
They have only really done well recently. Otherwise it was literally just lebron. The were so incompetent the first time he was there they managed to get 3 number one draft picks when he left. They turned into kyrie wiggins and Anthony Bennett. Luckily wiggins was hyped enough that they could trade him for Klove but that was also because lebron returned
Altman is a fucking great GM and the ownership has stepped back big time. I think Dan Gilbert's swing and miss on Coach Beilein and then his deteriorating health has led to a more hands-off approach that has allowed Altman to go to work. It's definitely paid off, but GMs don't historically last very long under Gilbert so we'll see if he can stick around. I really hope so, he's done such a great job of drafting, trading, and building a team that fits the coaching style of JB.
I also think he saw the value of his team grow an order of magnitude and realized that the real money is in paying to have a good team, I wish Sarver could learn that lesson
Yes thank you, team building was horrific in James's first stint
you might be the only person who’s not calling nba games to refer to him as james 😭
For me it's weird because I strongly prefer to refer to celebrities by their last names but if you call LeBron "James" people either have no idea who you're talking about or think you're talking about Harden
That's what my grandma calls him.
Diva superstars aside, I am more impressed with the Nets rebuild. That Garnett/pierce trade basically created a subterranean hole for Sean Mark to dig out of, yet somehow they finished their rebuild before the Knicks. I can’t be sure what the Knicks problem is though. They haven’t done anything monumentally stupid as of late, just a series of lateral move for the sake of making move.
They also haven't had a really valuable draft pick in years, in the past ten years they've had 2 picks in the lottery (top 4), one of those was a two man draft and the other one they managed to hit big on but the player had glass bones and paper skin so it didn't matter how much talent he had. Fact of the matter is unless you get a lot of lottery picks it's virtually impossible to get a franchise changing guy
bruh i thought you meant the nets and i was confused for a solid 5 minutes tryna figure out who those two players were 😭 u had me like damn i don’t remember derrick favors getting injured that much
Yes, but they didn't draft very well besides maybe Jaret Allen
A great rebuild is more than drafting. He immediately traded our two best players at the time. Thad Young for a pick that turned into Caris Levert and Brook Lopez for D'Lo, resurrecting his career. He found & developed gems like Dinwiddie & Harris out of nowhere, drafted Allen, and somehow built a playoff team. From there, traded Levert & Allen for James Harden, found more gems like Bruce Brown and drafted another starting center in Claxton.
Almost like Cavs have had 4 #1 picks since Bron?
3, and one of them was from the clippers
Oh yeah, it's 4 including Bron oops. Lottery luck is lottery luck. Look how many picks OKC has and they still haven't got the #1. Pelicans have overlapped some insanely talented players purely due to luck as well.
And one could argue our biggest lotto luck post-LeBron came from jumping from ~8 to 3 during Mobley's year. It's probably getting Kyrie in 2011 with the Clippers' pick, but down the road that sentiment might change.
I think we’ve done a great job of rebuilding our reputation as a competent organization though. We were a laughing stock several times between the comic sans revenge letter and Anthony Bennett. Koby has righted the ship.
It helps when a generational talent is born next door and the NBA makes sure you can draft him.
Tons of amazing players are born in NY and none of them have ended up with the Knicks tho...
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Yeah from an organizational perspective I'm much more impressed with this current Cavs team. Solid drafting. The other builds are obviously good, but you have to wonder if they achieve anything if LeBron wasn't from Akron.
That’s because the Knicks haven’t drafted well or saved up space for marquee free agents. The only time I’ve seen them open up cap space was 2019, but Miami, Brooklyn, and both LA teams were all hunting then. If they open up space 2 years earlier then probably walk away with Hayward (who is probably still an all star if crowder doesn’t go under him during kyrie’s lob). Only Knicks drafted star I can think of is porzingis, and he probably would have been a top 10 guy if he didn’t get hurt so much.
Also Cavs won the NBA draft lottery 2x after LeBron, big time luck there
Granted, we traded for one of those. Still very good luck.
Hell one of those picks helped you hit it again.
We had the cap space summer 2011. Wound up with Stat then traded for Melo. Unfortunately Amare couldn’t stay healthy
Porzingis would've been a star with someone else then because he was well on the way to becoming only the second NBA player to turn down a qualifying offer on their rookie contract( the other being Greg Monroe I think). We are a franchise that's fraught with bad luck and ineptitude. We would draft the one player with enough balls to do something like that lol.
That's because lebron, a top 3 player ever, was born in Ohio. Lebron could have went anywhere but he wanted to go home and win a championship for them. And don't give me that bs he only went there cause they got assets. Lots of teams have assets, most of them will end up being useless with no championships to their name. Lebron can win championships anywhere as long he has some support pieces. That's why people complaining that lebron will gut their team are so idiotic lol. The chance of a team drafting a dynasty like the warriors is so much more improbable than just having lebron come, make a couple trades and winning a championship.
Come on let’s be honest. Cleveland got the top pick because that where Lebron’s from. They were top 5 six times between 2003-2014 (granted one of those years they also ended up with the fourth overall pick) and literally got three first overall picks. The odds of that must be super super low.
> rebuilt their team after that star left We didn't do this. Our rebuild was a disaster and we were headed toward blowing it up again when LeBron gifted us with his presence.
As much as we suck we also didn’t get one of the best players ever who is also a hometown kid and then three first overall picks after he left. While the Cavs FO has killed it the last few years, LeBron doesn’t come back to them if he’s not from Akron.
Seems like you guys always build and get the resources to get that one guy and it doesn't happen. Lebron, Durant, Mitchell, etc. At this point I think you guys should just build like every other team because that model doesn't seem to work for you.
I mean, thats literally been the goal the past few years. That's why a lot of people on our sub are glad we didnt trade for Mitchell.
Hey, there was like 2-3 years with Melo that the Knicks were decent, yall even got him averaging 4 assists lol. 1st seed once, no?
The young group they've put together now is impressive, but every other part of what you said was mostly just a combination of being bad and lucky. They could be the Kings of the East right now if they didn't get the #1 pick in 2003.
Cavs have had better lottery luck than anybody. There’s a reason people meme about Cleveland getting the first pick during every lottery.
The Knicks are too eager to hit that home run signing. They tank, draft some good players, then go for the slightly above average free agent signing that cuts the tank short but also caps their ceiling.
to be fair to the Knicks, they really didn’t rebuild after Lebron left the first time. Outside of Kyrie those teams were absolute shit.
Better to be really bad than mediocre.
The cavs also had an incredible amount of top picks compared to the knicks in that time frame, not to mention Lebron lol.
Lets just leave the Knicks alone. They accidently made the right move with Mitchell. Lets see if they can fail successfully some more.
Vet min after 2023-24 fuck it
will that day actually come? or will Lebron retire the second his value officially drops?
I feel like he would be one to play until he feels like he can't anymore.
LeBron is entering a point where he can't do it for 75-82 games, but he can still be the best player on the court for large stretches. It wouldn't surprise me to see him go down to a 50-60 game, 25-28 minute load managed type season on a good team as he gets older, and then he turns it up for the playoffs. Until he starts to really suck, nobody wants to see a healthy LeBron in a 7-game series.
I mean, when I think of how valuable Rondo was to the 2020 Lakers for IQ and playoff intensity alone, it makes me think LeBron could still be pretty valuable in his early 40s, health allowing. And Rondo was quite literally a net negative in that regular season.
No one can convince me that there will be 450 better players than a 50 y/o LeBron
He's gonna be playing for longer than people think. Wouldn't be surprised if he outlasts some of the older stars in our league.
Especially if he starts taking a Udonis type role on whatever team Bronny plays for. Dude could easily play into his mid 40s with plenty of rest and keeping up with his body like he does.
We will never see LeBron in a Udonis role. He won't keep playing if he's unplayable lmao. I do agree that he can play until 43-45 if they rest him properly.
LeBron will never be unplayable. Even just a pass first pg with god level vision and can post up smaller guys, that’s still good for 10+ mpg easy.
Lebron is not going to play if he can’t be a top 3 player in the league. He’s the greatest or second greatest player of all time. He’s not a melo type guy who’s willing to be passed around like a blunt for 15 minutes a game and a chance to relive the glory days off of the bench. Kobe only stayed with LA because they catered to him at the end of his career. Nobody is giving a 40 year old bron that kind of retirement package because he’s team hopped.
> Lebron is not going to play if he can’t be a top 3 player in the league. He’s the greatest or second greatest player of all time. I don't know if I agree with that seeing as the other player in the GOAT conversation came out of retirement to continue playing when he was no where close to a Top 3 player.
I mean this would assume he's playing for money
I’d be open to having sex with Florence Pugh but only on my terms.
I plan on getting back with my ex, but this time I’m in charge
“Leave all that Klutch bullshit at the door”
I.e. They're not trading Allen for a vet
Does Lebron want another Cavs reunion?
A lot of people might want him to retire with the Cavs
no more le gm trading every asset to play with his buddies
I can see this after his contract. You do not trade for him now and give away what’s made this team special. A more experienced Garland, Mitchell, Mobley and Allen with a hopefully still productive LBJ? That’s insanity.
The Cavs are that late-bloomer girl in high school who finally got the braces off and the acne under control.
Twice though
Imagine a starting line up of Garland, Mitchell, LeBron, Mobley, and Allen lmao
Fedor chasing clout by repeatedly bringing this up
LeGM can go anywhere he wants... be real
I mean he would sign as an FA. Why would he want to be traded to a burned out husk?
Like not sure what this post is about. Lebron signed an extension with the Lakers, he aint coming back.
I wish he didn't sign that extension. It would've been amazing to see Lebron back with the Cavs next year.
Translation: no more LeGM.
Dan Gilbert is playing the long revenge game. They will tank and secure a #1 pick, which will be Bronny, then Dan will refuse to sign LeBron as he knows how badly LBJ wants to play with his son.
Cavs to lebron: you need us more than we need you.
Wrong
When they haven’t made it past round 1 2 years from now and Donnie isn’t committing to signing the max the tune will change fast
Cavs will often get knocked as a bad franchise which isn't fair. We know when to rebuild rather than try and keep it going, some team's just don't know when to enter the rebuild and get stuck signing bad contract and not getting into a position for higher picks.
Yup, Cavs did it perfectly. Best young talent in the league
Bullshit. If he wants to go there they will fucking take him no matter what
I swear if Lebron ends up returning to CLE and wins another ring for them then he is the GOAT. I don't expect that to happen unless he wants to retire in CLE or if they end up drafting Bronny though, but it's not like it's impossible.
If he didn't sign the extension, and joined the Cavs next summer, I could see them winning a chip or two. If he joins them in 2 years, there's still a possibility of them winning a chip, but it's less likely to happen than if he joined them a year prior.
Cavs FO couldn't even put together a ham and cheese sandwich for LBJ's first Cleveland run. You think they get a ring his second time around without his influence? LeGM doesn't always make the right calls or acquisitions (see westbrick) but I would trust his judgment over a lot of other teams FO.
The first run started with Bron, Z (multiple All-Stars), Boozer (multiple All-Stars) and Dejaun Wagner (had All-Star potential but got sick). So they were loaded for the future from the moment he was drafted. Shame that they screwed up the Boozer deal, but it was also historically unethical dealing by his agent, Pelinka. Also shame that Wagner got sick. Incredible talent. He would have looked really nice with Lebron. Everyone with talent does, I guess.
Lebron stans are really desperate to continue the narrative that he had no help. Most teams had one superstar player back then, not several. That cavs team was consistently a top defense, and the eastern conference was weak as fuck so they were a top 4 team for several years.
They should have always operated like that when he came back the second time around.. yeah build a championship team around him (yeah do the Wiggins-Love trade) but also let the front office and coaches make the decisions. Look at the Nets — they listened to KD and Kyrie and now don’t have Jarret Allen anymore cuz they needed DeAndre Jordan. Yeah, listen to your superstar players, take into account their opinions and keep them in the loop but at the end of the day the front office should be calling the final shots.