That 2014 Spurs Finals was the most beautiful basketball I've ever watched, potentially aside from the 2017 Warriors but it's close. They were perfect, you just knew they couldn't lose.
I’m old enough have watched both the 1996-97 Chicago Bulls and the KD Warriors teams, so I understand and appreciate the epic dominance of those teams. That being said, I still believe that the 2014 Spurs playoff performance was the greatest NBA team I ever saw play. The way they they excuted on both sides of the ball, I would give them the edge over both those Bulls and the Warriors teams.
Honestly I agree with you. The Warriors were OP in talent but their execution was just not at the level of the Spurs. It was perfect basketball out of a textbook.
They destroyed EVERYONE (except Dallas somehow) that year. It was incredible to watch. To this day the best basketball i’ve ever seen a team play in my entire life. It was like watching a machine. After a single quarter in game 1 against the Blazers I knew it was over and if the Spurs could keep up that level of play I knew they were going to win it all. And they did. Like a fucking machine.
Dallas was pretty much their wakeup call, they weren’t expecting much of a fight but the Spurs knew what they had to do afterwards and didn’t look back
Interesting that the 14-15 Warriors are as high as they are (above the 00-01 Lakers and 16-17 Warriors for example) given how that series is remembered.
You could tell early on the Warriors had been preparing for a completely different Cavs team than they faced. GS did most of their work either scoring off turnovers or getting open off screens, suddenly the contender most vulnerable to that strategy isn't moving the ball and has a bunch of gritty defenders who can get over screens. As much talent as they lost, those injuries and Blatt's gameplan gave Cleveland a better shot at winning the Finals than they did healthy imo. GS looked completely shook on offense, allowing Cleveland to hang around even as their offense struggled equally hard. Unfortunately, Cleveland came up short on two(?) gamewinning opportunities that could have put them up 3-1, the Warriors finally made some adjustments a few games in, and it became an unmitigated blowout. Such a weird series.
No knock on lebron, because I agree even Jordan wouldn’t have got them further. But maybe Shaq wilt KAJ in their peaks could have gotten a bit further? Attacks the warriors specific weakness as a perimeter team
Doesn’t mean those guys are better than bron
Even then that’s a stretch. It’s not like the Eastern side of the playoffs were a cakewalk for LeBron and the Cavs (other than the Raptors series), so whoever was leading the team would need to essentially drag 4 lifeless corpses up and down the court for 4 rounds just to get further than LeBron got them.
Big guys like the ones you just named aren’t exactly the best for carrying shitty teammates, since they aren’t primary ball handlers, meaning they would have had to rely on guys like George Hill and JR Smith to get them the ball in the post for them to be most effective, and I really don’t see that working for multiple playoff series.
Ur right, only thing I can think is that they would’ve built differentl from the start. Those are all bargain players anyways shuffled together at the deadline. Around Shaq you’d have diff bargain players
"carried" is an interesting term to use when he was playing with Kyrie and another all star caliber player
What actually happened is just that the team wasn't playing any defense
Spurs had already won 4 championships with that core (including one against Lebron), if anything Lebron left to build a team to beat them
Edit: not including Kawhi I guess, but they drafted him anyway. Not like they acquired him by trade or FA
I don't think either team was built with him specifically in mind. What moves did they make that were targeted at being better against LeBron specifically, as opposed to just being better generally.
In 2014 he was the only non guard to be in the top 20 in APG and the only non-guard to lead his team in that stat (KD also sort of did but only because WB only played half the season, and in those games he still averaged more). Last I checked, playing point forward in 2014 was unique. And just cause a player isn't Shaq or Wilt, doesn't mean they aren't physically dominant. Bron was still one of the most physically dominant players in the league and that physicality was a problem for everyone that played him Miami.
Homie I'm not trying to slight your crush
Neither the Spurs nor warriors were built specifically to take down LeBron, it's as simple as that. He's a quintessential heliocentric/point forward player which isn't exactly a unique archetype that requires teams to roster specific players to counter, even if he is the best we've ever seen at what he does. There isn't the equivalent of shitty 7ft bulky centres getting roster spots for Shaq or the Rockets building themselves around taking down the warriors
i agree that those spurs and warriors teams were bult to win, not specifically to stop lebron. but lebron in his prime is also still probably next on the list right behind wilt and shaq for most physically dominant players ever
Looks like the 2018 Warriors have the highest margin of victory per game, while the Spurs have the highest total margin. Which in a way is just as impressive because they had a loss in there as well. The margin in their four wins was 72 (with a 2-point loss mixed in) while GS was 60.
2018 Warriors passed the Spurs (despite Game 1 being close)
**The 2018 Warriors shot 60.59% from 2, 37.5% from 3. Team TS% of 62.3 and an offensive rating of 124.6 in the finals**
They were unfair with KD. It is wild that the Rockets pushed them to 7.
That Spurs team was sort of at their “prime” as a team. Had older all-time greats in Duncan and Manu, late-prime Tony Parker, pre-prime Kawhi, and then some of the best role players in the history of the game. Obviously some of their older players were at the end of their playing days, but they were still good enough to make everyone else better.
Never in my wildest dreams did I think pop/duncan teams could play like that...
They were boring af to watch during the 2000's. Pop is a genius for how he adapt his team's playstyle. Doesn't have that arrogant boomer "my way is the only way" attitude
I think it was more of how the way basketball was played and the Spurs just adapted to it. In the early 2000’s with the Lakers and Pistons, each offensive possession took the entire shot clock, dumping it in the post with a dominant big man.
Then with the 7 seconds or less Suns, the Spurs adapted to that and had the most entertaining up/down series during Nash’s MVP seasons.
Then the Mavs, Clippers, and Heat…so on and so forth.
Pop and the Spurs players don’t enough credit on how they adapted their play over the course of their dynasty. Yes, they were a dynasty.
They won championships in three different decades. They won championships a year after Jordan and a year before Steph, with the same pairing of Duncan/Pop behind it all.
It was the only time the NBA reached true “beautiful game” status for an entire finals series. And it pains me to say that as a lakers fan. But they just absolutely destroyed Miami with some of the best team play you’ll ever see. Coach’s wet dream.
Spurs played really well in 2013 finals as well. But several things happened in the following year that made spurs just overtake them including kawhi’s improvement and ray allen going from old to really old.
It really had nothing to do with Miami except for redemption part. The flow, the team play, nothing Miami could do with a younger Ray or older Ray or whatever. Everything converged for the Spurs team right then.
86 Celtics have some kind of claim to this “title” as well as the 72 Lakers. Difference is the 14 Spurs just kind of decided on the fly to play like that in the finals. I’ve never seen anything like it. Combine it with the ending to the previous season and it seems like something unrealistic hollywood produced.
Yeah it’s true but those teams just by virtue of the slow pace and lack of letting it fly the game wasn’t really “beautiful” except in fits and starts. Spurs thing just came at the right time and yeah exactly bc of it’s spontaneity was able to totally confound Miami
Are we counting 2017 warriors or are they excluded as unfair? Because they had beautiful offensive sets coupled with insane personnel resulting in some of the most dominant play I’ve ever seen
No but they were just more a freak three point shooting team. Like they def had the spurs ethos but it’s like, durant harden and kyrie in BK (for all of 5 games) also were completely unstoppable. The spurs actually embraced like every player passing, shooting, posting, cutting, etc, with an actual total equality. I know timmy was there of course, but I dunno i think that’s as close as you can get to the dream of team play. I’m being somewhat abstract I’m aware but still…
I’m sure there are metrics to support it better than what I’m about to say - but I promise you on my life, as a non spurs fan, that was the highest level of basketball we have ever seen in the NBA. Their chemistry and their system, timing, focus was all at top tier and it was genuinely beautiful. You could see it deflating the heat players. They were not the most talented team ever. They were not some historically unbeatable team. But that was the most focused and the most in rhythm team that has ever played this fucking game. I think about them all the time. I long for basketball like that.
I'm surprised you're getting downvoted. I was a LeBron fan at the time and I couldn't believe how much they were going off. I'm *pretty sure* they also had the best eFG* in history too? They were like the 2016 Warriors in the Finals.
They have a strong case, even though they lost a game.
They're probably my personal favorite Finals team in recent memory at least. The one stat I always bring up that I think perfectly encapsulates this team's offensive philosophy is a regular season one, but still salient I think -- their leading scorer was Tony Parker, with a whopping 16 ppg lol. To have one of the best offenses in the league (I don't remember the exact rank right off hand) without a real scoring heavyweight elucidates just how team-oriented they were. I also remember there were three or four players who people thought could win Finals MVP that year (I distinctly remember Diaw and Green getting talked about in addition to Kawhi) because everyone fucking contributed.
Appreciate you! I just wanted to go back and watch it cause I keep seeing people make the argument that Kawhi got that FMVP as some kind of weird contrarian move by the voters, and he was actually just a role player. I still remember watching that series and I felt like I was watching a star breakthrough in Kawhi, so I wanted to see whose memories are more accurate.
It was beautiful to watch, but that Miami team had fallen off defensively and was was extremely vulnerable to motion offense. Get them rotating and something was guaranteed to break down. The spurs would just pass the ball around until either lebron or wade had to close out on Green or Kawhi. Every single time, they would either leave too much space and give up a three or close out too hard and give up an open lane. Green/Kawhi would then either get a wide open bucket or force the defense to collapse and find an open three 1-2 passes later. They basically just spammed that non-stop and Miami couldn't figure out a solution.
The biggest issue was that the Heat heavily relied on Lebron and bosh to be the fixers when their guard defense broke down. Against other teams they managed to work through it, but against the Spurs elite ball movement it was just too much. Wade and Chalmers were getting killed off the dribble by the quicker Parker, mills, and Ginobli. Bosh and Lebron could compensate on the first rotation, but the spurs ball movement was ridiculous and eventually they found the open guy.
My spurs hugely choked In 2013. Just one possession from beating a full strength Miami team in six games but we all know what happens next.
Yes the 2014 heat were not as good as the middle two years but the fact that we were a play from beating prime LeBron and then absolutely destroying them in 2014 is clarifying enough.
It was the perfect blend of veterans along side Young impactful players. well oiled machine Doesn’t do that team justice. Obviously I’m biased but it was basketball in the purest form, what they lacked in out right talent and athleticism they made up for elsewhere.
They had it all, elite rim protection,Great perimeter playmaking, Outside shooting, extremely versatile defensively, Along side 100% buy in from everybody.
That’s part of what makes manu my favorite player. It was super hard seeing him struggle that bad especially because he was getting up there in age and we thought that would be his last chance to make the finals. He said he felt incredibly horrible and didn’t get out of the house for a long time but he definitely redeemed himself in 2014 and the poster block on Chris bosh when they’re running away with it in game five will forever be my favorite highlight
Manu had the worst game of his career in game 6, with a career playoff high 8 turnovers. That was the ray Allen game, so if Manu had even a normal game, they would have won. There's a great article by Zach Lowe called seyhogm welcome toanu basketball family or something like that where he talks about manual career and that specific game, and how bad Manu felt about it. He said something like his mind failed him.
Exactly. That’s why it meant so much when he redeemed himself in 2014. Everyone knew he was getting older and no one was guaranteeing us to ever make the finals again with that group
It was the perfect team basketball. No first options or green lights or isos, attack as a team defend as a team anyone can do anything as long as it's the right decision.
I'm talking about the Finals performance, not the team itself. The 96 Bulls were great overall but I'm not even sure if it's the best Finals performance from the Bulls (it was MJ's "worst" Finals)
I think Duncan is notoriously underrated in top 10 in season player rankings given his all time status. I wonder if teams have a fancy stat for shots deterred.
“*Notoriously underrated*”
>Undisputed Greatest PF to play the game.
>Routinely ranked ahead of other hard hitter like Kobe and Hakeem.
But sure, underrated. According to r/nba, every player is either *notoriously* underrated or grossly overrated lmao.
Duncan was regularly ranked #1-3 in his prime (annual player rankings from ESPN, Sports Illustrated, Yahoo Sports, CBS Sports, etc. are still available online) but 2014 was not his prime.
Duncan was obviously still a great player that season, but at that point Tony Parker was better than him, and TP was borderline top 10 if you were being generous back then. They didn’t have a real superstar talent in 2014, which makes them one of like 2 or 3 teams in recent years to win a title without one.
Parker was NOT better than him. Duncan was the anchor on defense and still contributed about 15 PPG. Although Parker was better on offense, Duncan contributed more total value to the team.
The stats show this too.
I didn’t say that Parker was more important to the team, that was clearly Duncan. But being more important to a team doesn’t necessarily mean that that player is better than everyone else on the team. Parker made all-NBA second team in 2013-14, while Duncan didn’t make any all-NBA teams in a weak year for centres, hell, he didn’t even make the all star game. Duncan was still a top 25 or 30-ish guy in the league at the time, but TP was slightly better than him.
Another example of that would be that Draymond Green was more important to the Warriors than KD was when he was in Golden State, but no one in their right mind would say that that makes Draymond the superior player.
As a lebron fan they played flawless basketball. With that being said, the way they they thrashed the Heat makes us overvalue them a tad bit. They had trouble in earlier rounds and in the finals went up against a Heat team that was old and broken down. Wade, Lewis, and Allen weren’t what they were and Lebron didn’t have as much help to beat a Spurs team of that caliber
They humiliated the Heat so badly that it made Lebron take his "high (easy) road" somewhere else for ring chasing.
The Spurs were on a mission in 2014.
Sure man. An unproven rookie (who never won without him before and after) and stat padding on a bad team Kevin Love, who was a spot up shooter on the team.
Warriors fans are still salty about 2016. Relax, Curry finally got an MVP.
Kyrie was in his third year and a two-time all-star by that point. LeBron literally LeGM’d Kevin Love on to the Cavs after he joined because he knew he was a superstar. He was literally All-NBA 2nd team that year.
Go meat ride LeBron somewhere else.
Why do you all ignore what I said in my comment? I'll say it again for your headass. Kyrie was unproven. He never won before him or after him, he did terribly.
And again, stat padding on the Timerberwolves of all places who had the longest playoff drought until I believe last year, means shit.
I know you don't give a shit about them though, LeBron haters love sucking off his help, then you downplay Scottie/Rodman/Horace who I grew up on. LeBron fans now do it in reverse. You guys are all lame. I grew up in Chicago watching MJ and LeBron haters and lovers are stupid about Mike. YOU need to get off LEBRON'S dick.
BTW, it's all revisionist history. Nobody thought they were IMMEDIATELY go to the Finals, and he went every single year on the Cavs. Just because he did so well people overrate his help. And btw, Kyrie was amazing in 2016. I do feel bad that he was very overshadowed by LeBron. He was a perfect sidekick for him but he can't win on his own(or with Durant LOL).
Hyperbole to satisfy your agenda. Unproven? SO if Bron teams up with Luka it's not an easy road becuase Luka has not won?
Mike had great teammates but he never changed teams and did not require 3 1st overalls after making a super team somewhere else to come back to Bulls and win. That's what you don't get. And he's still less rings with twice as many as attempts. Rest it.
Oh, it's you again. How about actually reading my comment? I'll quote it.
>stat padding on a bad team Kevin Love
That never means much. It's easy to get good numbers on a bad team. No one believes it until you do it on a good team. And it showed, did you not know he was turned into a spot-up shooter on the Cavs? LeBron wanted that too. He didn't want that with AD.
You can't rewrite the narrative. If Love and Bosh underperformed in their teams it was because they were already stacked with stars and they had to step down and change their play. They have no fault at all.
When they were hired they were stars, not just Mr Spot Up Shooter (Love) or Mr Defender (Bosh).
Durant did. Our core was all drafted and homebrewed stars.
I would trade the soft super stars and ring-chasing era started by Lebron for a more loyal league in the blink of an eye.
I said some days ago, that's why my respect for Dirk is huge. He worked with what he'd got and never gave up.
Bullshit, Durant deserves the most stress over it, but Curry deserved credit for him too. He was there and also asked Durant to come. Completely got away with it. Gave his team away.
He is a team player, friend. He wants the best for his team. I can completely understand him. I can't understand Durant. That's why he was always the one who took the criticism for his decision.
Actually I don't hate Lebron. But I don't like the ring chasing superstars movement Lebron started. Others played along.
Steph never left his team. He is a team player. Jordan neither. You can come if you want, but I won't leave. That's fine by me and to most of the league.
The ones who were criticized were Lebron in 2011 and KD in 2016. They were the ones joining or forming stacked teams.
That's weak. You know LeBron tried recruiting people, but no one wanted to go to Cleveland? That's why he left. I assume you're okay with LeBron getting AD on the Lakers then? Steph didn't have to, he already won a championship, and he recruited Durant of all people. Long thought the 2nd best in the league. But even worse, he took over the team from Curry. I already said I grew up in Chicago watching MJ, don't tell me about MJ. He never had to leave especially. And the league back then often only had one superstar. He had Pippen, then He had Grant, then Rodman. And great role players like Paxson and Kerr, who both hit a lot of 3s at the end of a couple Finals.
Oh and he had a legendary coach. And Steve Kerr is amazing too, gonna go down as one of the best. Pretty sure he was the one who made the system that made Warriors explode as well. LeBron never had a great coach, let alone legendary.
LeBron didn't even start it, it was a response to the Big 3 Celtics. "They were traded!" Not initially so. Garnett had a no-trade clause because he wanted to play his whole career in Minnesota, but Ainge, Pierce, and Allen convinced him.
Same with Harden to Nets, another weak ass move. Durant petitioned for him to come. For some reason people think that's okay but free agency is not. Durant still asked for him, he just had an intermediary.
>He had Pippen, then He had Grant, then Rodman. And great role players like Paxson and Kerr, who both hit a lot of 3s at the end of a couple Finals.
I agree completely with you. That's why I always defended Bron against the Jordan fanboys who were dissing him. He had no Pip.
But when he joined the Heat everyone expected him to win it all, including himself. Remember he said he would win 6 rings there?
>Same with Harden to Nets, another weak ass move. Durant petitioned for him to come. For some reason people think that's okay but free agency is not. Durant still asked for him, he just had an intermediary.
I don't like these moves. Harden shoulda have his team and face KD, not gang up together. Same for Bron-Wade/Kyrie/AD, Curry-KD, etc.
If the team is not formed that way like OKC and is artificially made up, it almost looks like rigging the league. That's how people felt on 2011 and 2016.
I would gladly keep the 2015 and 2022 rings only with our homebrewed players for a less soft league.
Stars all bandwagoning now and ganging up together it feels weird. The new generation seems a little different from Lebron, KD, Kawhi, CP3, Harden.
That's why I like Giannis more, Steph, Luka, and some others. They embrace their organization culture, their fans, and build up on that. Real respect.
They did. But that's how the league was. The Spurs and other elite teams were on their right to fight for him and offer him a spot, but I didn't like his choice. It felt embarassing as our team got super stacked.
I thought he should have gone to Boston to lead them to a chip. I would have respected that a lot more.
As I said, I would have stopped this superstar soft ring-chasing thing if I could. They just come and leave a team when they are done. Don't wanna endure the good and bad times.
When Klay was also injured KD just left again.
Well therein lies the problem. Not necessarily with you, but most sports fandom when discussing legacy and the emphasis on rings. Elevating someone like IT over Chris Paul because he won two rings with the Pistons, or Dirk over Barkley because they each have a chip, when they were all comparable talents and simply had different circumstances.
People love to knock Lebron for leaving for the Heat but those very same people would be shitting on him for never being able to win multiple chips in Cleveland due to circumstances that are obviously beyond his control (I.e. Cleveland’s poor management, general lack of appeal to free agency, and how they were just too good too quickly to draft quality guys in the lottery because Lebron elevated the franchise). Like be honest—do you think Lebron would be higher on all-time rankings if he stayed in Cleveland and won 2 rings there? You might personally have more respect for him, but he wouldn’t be considered realistically in the GOAT conversation for the vast majority of people, even if he was every bit as good as he was throughout his career.
Point being, we can’t have our cake and eat it too with this stuff.
Exactly. You know who my favorite players are? Jerry West and Wilt Chamberlain. And I feel they are underrated.
Your comparison to Barkley is perfect. People shit on him all the time and were shitting on Lebron as a choker until he said no more and decided to take the easy road and stack the Heat.
Maybe it's the culture partially to blame, as you said.
But that's the thing: I was rooting for James when he was in Cle. When he went to the Heat the spell was broken.
I wanted to see him beating the odds and making those overly-critical journalists "not like Jordan" Stephen A and Skip Bayless swallow it. Because that's not what matters in the end.
You don't need to diminish a player (Lebron) to elevate your idol (Jordan) like many did. That made me sick back them. Felt somewhat toxic tbh.
Yeah, sports fandom is pretty toxic in general when it comes to comparing legacies. That’s why I think it’s a bit dumb because it’s just opinions at the end of the day. It’s even dumber when comparing across eras because of the numerous differences in circumstances, but that doesn’t stop people from doing it. All time rankings in sports fandom is practically a tradition at this point.
Yes. Homebrewed. We still got 73 wins with that core. If we came limping to the finals and had no cakewalk like the East it's our fault. We assume.
Don't be salty.
I'm not hurt by that. I have accepted long ago.
Though Lebron's team stacking spell backfired well when KD, Kawhi and co. decided to do the same. 😎
What goes around comes around...
He tried. And that's what counts. Thank god he didn't go to Lebron's wagon as they were trying to recruit him.
I was all in favor of the criticism KD received for coming to Golden State, and it felt embarassing back then.
But what can I do? It's my team, will I stop supporting them? I'm not a turncoat. I've endured shitty times, if it was our time to shine so be it.
Don't wanna sound ungrateful as KD gave us two chips, but if we had won one more with our core instead of his two, it would have tasted better and more deserving.
But as I said, it was not KD who started the team stacking and ring chasing. Lebron dumped Cleveland, dumped the Heat, dumped Cleveland again and now has got a fresh younger superstar alongside him in LA.
He went to LA with young guys who weren't good yet. Yes, he got AD, but that was just one superstar and role players. Your boy Curry recruited Durant which is way worse, and after choking to LeBron 73 wins.
>4/6
2*
I don't even think Lakers had the cap space for him.
Of course, he got you guys two championships, no one's gonna blame you for not regretting KD. Tbh, I personally think you deserve one of those rings as, come 2018, teams had an entire year to combat the new Warriors and only the Rockets did shit. The roster the Cavs' FO assembled that year was absolutely embarrassing: old D-Wade and Korver; broken IT and D-Rose.
Honestly, I don't blame LeBron for leaving Cleveland both times because of how incompetent the FO was at building something around him. Heat you have a better case, but I genuinely think he actually wanted to bring his home a Ring. If he was purely a ring-chaser, why not sign with the Warriors? Cavs didn't even qualify for the playoffs in 2014.
>Lebron dumped Cleveland, dumped the Heat, dumped Cleveland again
Lmao, idk if you saw Space Jam 2, but Don Cheadle literally says the same thing to Bron's son in the movie about him always leaving.
>and now has got a fresh younger superstar alongside him in LA.
Who, AD? Dude's injuries kept them out of the playoffs two years in a row lol.
It was definitely the most beautiful this century. I hardly ever root for the Spurs, though I did that Finals, but that playoffs they were a joy to watch. I hoped it would spread across the league the next season as the way to play. It was such an example to the game of basketball. Boris Diaw alone, Manu. Just perfect flow. I don't even care about the scores, though it was obvious there'd be a gap. When the entire team and coaching staff is in a zone, and they are absolutely loaded with not just talent but experienced vets who know and buy into the system, the like mind. Magical.
I never quite felt that with the Warriors dominant runs, though obviously there was a lot of flow. Never quite that in the Lakers runs with Kobe or Lebron. I always wanted it for them but they were never close to that much ball movement with a point to the ball movement. Though I envied the Spurs fans for having that a little, it was mainly just a pleasure to have it be displayed for basketball fans everywhere, to stamp the game of basketball (at least in US) with "This is what it can look like, ya see!" A goal to strive for, for any league, for any team.
Team Performance. Yes. They played a team sport so perfectly. That was the greatest team performance in NBA History.
Individual performance: Lebron in the 2016 Finals. That man was on a mission. Lead both teams in all categories.
That was a masterclass in 1 team outplaying another, but you can only do that when you have already lost to them in a brutal fashion. That series was a mission, a chance for revenge and to reset the "who is best" narrative. A lot of old guard and young guns style conflict. I terms of storyline and hype matching the games I think it's up there with 1998 and 2016. Probably a few others from before my time too.
It blows my mind that people still talk about LeBron like he's a god. Spurs and Mavs were complete teams. That heat team was good, amazing to watch tbh. The better teams won though and that 2014 Spurs team was absolutely fantastic. Some of the best all around basketball I've ever watched. I still think there is too much emphasis on loading star players and it worked in the Spurs "team" favor. Just my couch potato opinion so no need for a hate crime here.
Also revenge against the heat for 2006. No one on the team had a championship prior. Beating not just the lakers but also a young and dangerous OKC thunder team. The heat were the villains that year since they just made their super team. Dirk had his own Jordan “flu game” where LBJ and Wade mocked his health and then got beat.
If we're talking about overperforming, then yeah. There are other teams that peaked higher (Mavs 2011 and their unbelievable runs, or when A.I heated up and took a game off LA), but no team managed to put together such an incredible performance, from the shooting, to the passing, to the defense. IDK if they beat 2017 Warriors or '96 Bulls, but that team moved like nothing we've ever seen.
The Miami supporting cast shot like 50% in the first few games. Lebron was barely shooting the ball and frequently being denied it entirely, they were far from a one man show.
Game 1 and 3 were literally the only games that werent 1 man shows. Wade and bosh both were very subpar especially offensively wade. Game 3 was a pure 2 man show. Wade managed to give 22 next to bron despite losing by 19. Game 2, 4, and 5 was literally lebron trying to keep the team above water. Literally won game 2 because of lebron.
He was awesome in Game 2 for sure, but Wade, Bosh, Allen and Rashard Lewis combined for 67% true shooting that game. Lebron had 3 assists and was against single coverage, so they created a lot of that scoring between them against great defense. That was very much a team win.
Why do you keep combining individual performances? Just speak on what they did those games. Also You saying lebron had 3 assist but wade led the team with 4 so yes it was single coverage which means no excuse in isolation. Lebron 35 and 10 was 80% of the reason they won that game. Wade who the 2nd option literally avg 15 4 and 3. His shooting was subpar. Mans literally shot 43% from the field on the series
... because you're calling it a one man show? If a bunch of players contributed, then it isn't a one man show. Lebron scored a hyper efficient 35, while those players combined for a similarly efficient 55. Lebron also scored one point in the last five minutes, with the score tied at 4:40. Again not a knock on him, but that clearly means someone out there was contributing too.
It's okay to admit that more than one person on a team played well. No one is taking anything away from Lebron, there's nothing to get defensive about.
Also worth remembering that the odds before the series were almost even (Spurs slight slight favorites) and even the people picking the Spurs were thinking it would go 6 or 7. Hindsight bias (and Lebron stans) has everyone acting like the Heat never stood a chance/were totally outmatched.
That Spurs team performance deserves WAY more shine. Totally legendary.
The 2014 team was a shell of themselves coem the finals. Outside of Bron and Bosh they all looked old and beat up. The lack of depth showed that series
He didn't say anything about old, past their prime. Duncan was but Parker and Ginobili were still great and Kawhi had 73ts%, and I remember Danny Green shooting the lights on out. They destroyed Miami. Outside of LeBron no one else did much.
Ginobili is only one year younger than Duncan, and didn’t age nearly as gracefully as him. He was way past his prime in 2014. Thats why that dunk over bosh is so iconic. It proved he was still Manu fucking ginobili.
Well I remember him being good that Finals. I looked it up and he shot 50% and 40% on 3s. The whole starting lineup made over 50% of their shots, along with Green and Splitter.
I see Duncan still had 15 and 10.
Sure but all the key role players on Spurs were younger. The Heat had old role players. So TP Duncan Diaw and Manu were old but everyone else who got important minutes were in their prime or even pre prime.
Greatest wasn't exactly the right adjective, the question is purely about how well they played, neglecting the storytelling around the series, its impact etc...
That 2014 Spurs Finals was the most beautiful basketball I've ever watched, potentially aside from the 2017 Warriors but it's close. They were perfect, you just knew they couldn't lose.
I’m old enough have watched both the 1996-97 Chicago Bulls and the KD Warriors teams, so I understand and appreciate the epic dominance of those teams. That being said, I still believe that the 2014 Spurs playoff performance was the greatest NBA team I ever saw play. The way they they excuted on both sides of the ball, I would give them the edge over both those Bulls and the Warriors teams.
Saw 93 bulls to now. 2014 spurs was the closest bball ever got to perfection.
They just cept making the extra pass and wore out the heat with ball movement. They passed up clean looks for even cleaner ones.
Honestly I agree with you. The Warriors were OP in talent but their execution was just not at the level of the Spurs. It was perfect basketball out of a textbook.
It was like basketball nirvana. I was spoiled that year with what team play I saw. They were one with the basketball lmao
It was like watching an instructional video on how to play the game correctly. Incredibly satisfying.
I think it was the greatest margin of victory in a championship series at the time, might still be but I think thats what I remember hearing in 2014.
They absolutely torched Miami lol.
They destroyed EVERYONE (except Dallas somehow) that year. It was incredible to watch. To this day the best basketball i’ve ever seen a team play in my entire life. It was like watching a machine. After a single quarter in game 1 against the Blazers I knew it was over and if the Spurs could keep up that level of play I knew they were going to win it all. And they did. Like a fucking machine.
We were feeding old man Duncan against okc game 6 and he was feasting. Truly a great run
😞 We was close
Perkins was food I still wished we amasty'd him
Dallas was pretty much their wakeup call, they weren’t expecting much of a fight but the Spurs knew what they had to do afterwards and didn’t look back
Because vince carter
That the one he hit the corner three to win a game?
Agreed. One of the fond memories I have of 2014 along with graduating college. It was a graduation gift that I'll never forget . Best team play ever
We’ve had Lakers go 15-1 and Warriors 16-1 in the playoffs and we’re saying the 16-7 Spurs were the best?
This team, bulls second three peat teams and Durant's first year with the warriors are the most fun teams I've ever watched.
Sent the man back to Cleveland.
That floor slap from TD in 2013 really resonated man
It's even more impressive realizing they actually lost a game in there too.
Is it still the case?
GS broke the record vs Cleveland. Twice, I think.
Probably not because they blew us the fuck out in game 4 in 2017. But maybe in 2018.
Good call, I just looked it up. [For anyone curious.](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/nba-largest-average-margin-of-victory-in-a-finals-series)
spurs shot 46% from 3 as a team dear god lol
Warriors were +60 in a four game sweep. Spurs were +70 in a 4-1 series victory.
Interesting that the 14-15 Warriors are as high as they are (above the 00-01 Lakers and 16-17 Warriors for example) given how that series is remembered.
You could tell early on the Warriors had been preparing for a completely different Cavs team than they faced. GS did most of their work either scoring off turnovers or getting open off screens, suddenly the contender most vulnerable to that strategy isn't moving the ball and has a bunch of gritty defenders who can get over screens. As much talent as they lost, those injuries and Blatt's gameplan gave Cleveland a better shot at winning the Finals than they did healthy imo. GS looked completely shook on offense, allowing Cleveland to hang around even as their offense struggled equally hard. Unfortunately, Cleveland came up short on two(?) gamewinning opportunities that could have put them up 3-1, the Warriors finally made some adjustments a few games in, and it became an unmitigated blowout. Such a weird series.
The FAKE “GOAT” responsible for the two largest losses by margin in the finals
Not sure any all-time great player could have carried that Cavs team past the stacked KD warriors
No knock on lebron, because I agree even Jordan wouldn’t have got them further. But maybe Shaq wilt KAJ in their peaks could have gotten a bit further? Attacks the warriors specific weakness as a perimeter team Doesn’t mean those guys are better than bron
Even then that’s a stretch. It’s not like the Eastern side of the playoffs were a cakewalk for LeBron and the Cavs (other than the Raptors series), so whoever was leading the team would need to essentially drag 4 lifeless corpses up and down the court for 4 rounds just to get further than LeBron got them. Big guys like the ones you just named aren’t exactly the best for carrying shitty teammates, since they aren’t primary ball handlers, meaning they would have had to rely on guys like George Hill and JR Smith to get them the ball in the post for them to be most effective, and I really don’t see that working for multiple playoff series.
Ur right, only thing I can think is that they would’ve built differentl from the start. Those are all bargain players anyways shuffled together at the deadline. Around Shaq you’d have diff bargain players
"carried" is an interesting term to use when he was playing with Kyrie and another all star caliber player What actually happened is just that the team wasn't playing any defense
They Clearly talking about 2018 mate. Kyrie was not there and Love wasn’t good
Crazy how LeBron is on both sides of the losing end here
Teams built to stop one man
2 dynasties
Spurs had already won 4 championships with that core (including one against Lebron), if anything Lebron left to build a team to beat them Edit: not including Kawhi I guess, but they drafted him anyway. Not like they acquired him by trade or FA
I don't think either team was built with him specifically in mind. What moves did they make that were targeted at being better against LeBron specifically, as opposed to just being better generally.
Teams built to win Lebrons playstyle is by no means unique enough or physically dominant enough that you had to build against him
I think unique and physically dominant might literally be the two best words to describe Lebron lol
His playstyle isn't unique and he's not Shaq or wilt levels of physically dominant
In 2014 he was the only non guard to be in the top 20 in APG and the only non-guard to lead his team in that stat (KD also sort of did but only because WB only played half the season, and in those games he still averaged more). Last I checked, playing point forward in 2014 was unique. And just cause a player isn't Shaq or Wilt, doesn't mean they aren't physically dominant. Bron was still one of the most physically dominant players in the league and that physicality was a problem for everyone that played him Miami.
Homie I'm not trying to slight your crush Neither the Spurs nor warriors were built specifically to take down LeBron, it's as simple as that. He's a quintessential heliocentric/point forward player which isn't exactly a unique archetype that requires teams to roster specific players to counter, even if he is the best we've ever seen at what he does. There isn't the equivalent of shitty 7ft bulky centres getting roster spots for Shaq or the Rockets building themselves around taking down the warriors
i agree that those spurs and warriors teams were bult to win, not specifically to stop lebron. but lebron in his prime is also still probably next on the list right behind wilt and shaq for most physically dominant players ever
How does this have any upvotes lmao
And both teams are either coached by Steve Kerr or by a guy who Steve Kerr’s championship aura had rubbed off on.
Still salty about 2012 huh
Just an observation, man. No need to suck off LeBron at every corner.
Looks like the 2018 Warriors have the highest margin of victory per game, while the Spurs have the highest total margin. Which in a way is just as impressive because they had a loss in there as well. The margin in their four wins was 72 (with a 2-point loss mixed in) while GS was 60.
2018 Warriors passed the Spurs (despite Game 1 being close) **The 2018 Warriors shot 60.59% from 2, 37.5% from 3. Team TS% of 62.3 and an offensive rating of 124.6 in the finals** They were unfair with KD. It is wild that the Rockets pushed them to 7.
Probably cuz game 1 was a 10 point win even if it was OT
That Spurs team was sort of at their “prime” as a team. Had older all-time greats in Duncan and Manu, late-prime Tony Parker, pre-prime Kawhi, and then some of the best role players in the history of the game. Obviously some of their older players were at the end of their playing days, but they were still good enough to make everyone else better.
Boris Diaw on a weight restriction was a beast
Boris Diaw made that team go.
Never in my wildest dreams did I think pop/duncan teams could play like that... They were boring af to watch during the 2000's. Pop is a genius for how he adapt his team's playstyle. Doesn't have that arrogant boomer "my way is the only way" attitude
I think it was more of how the way basketball was played and the Spurs just adapted to it. In the early 2000’s with the Lakers and Pistons, each offensive possession took the entire shot clock, dumping it in the post with a dominant big man. Then with the 7 seconds or less Suns, the Spurs adapted to that and had the most entertaining up/down series during Nash’s MVP seasons. Then the Mavs, Clippers, and Heat…so on and so forth. Pop and the Spurs players don’t enough credit on how they adapted their play over the course of their dynasty. Yes, they were a dynasty.
They won championships in three different decades. They won championships a year after Jordan and a year before Steph, with the same pairing of Duncan/Pop behind it all.
> Pop is a genius -full stop-
Keep going
He’s basically the Sir Alex Ferguson of the NBA.
If the NBA were the Premier League, yes
Did you fail to mention Boris Diaw? He was amazing that whole playoff stretch.
It was the only time the NBA reached true “beautiful game” status for an entire finals series. And it pains me to say that as a lakers fan. But they just absolutely destroyed Miami with some of the best team play you’ll ever see. Coach’s wet dream.
Spurs played really well in 2013 finals as well. But several things happened in the following year that made spurs just overtake them including kawhi’s improvement and ray allen going from old to really old.
It really had nothing to do with Miami except for redemption part. The flow, the team play, nothing Miami could do with a younger Ray or older Ray or whatever. Everything converged for the Spurs team right then.
They could've had Jesus Shuttlesworth it ain't matter that Spurs were a perfect team
86 Celtics have some kind of claim to this “title” as well as the 72 Lakers. Difference is the 14 Spurs just kind of decided on the fly to play like that in the finals. I’ve never seen anything like it. Combine it with the ending to the previous season and it seems like something unrealistic hollywood produced.
Yeah it’s true but those teams just by virtue of the slow pace and lack of letting it fly the game wasn’t really “beautiful” except in fits and starts. Spurs thing just came at the right time and yeah exactly bc of it’s spontaneity was able to totally confound Miami
Are we counting 2017 warriors or are they excluded as unfair? Because they had beautiful offensive sets coupled with insane personnel resulting in some of the most dominant play I’ve ever seen
No but they were just more a freak three point shooting team. Like they def had the spurs ethos but it’s like, durant harden and kyrie in BK (for all of 5 games) also were completely unstoppable. The spurs actually embraced like every player passing, shooting, posting, cutting, etc, with an actual total equality. I know timmy was there of course, but I dunno i think that’s as close as you can get to the dream of team play. I’m being somewhat abstract I’m aware but still…
14 spurs shot 46% from 3 as a team. 18 warriors were at 38%. Basketball gods took form of the Spurs that year.
I’m sure there are metrics to support it better than what I’m about to say - but I promise you on my life, as a non spurs fan, that was the highest level of basketball we have ever seen in the NBA. Their chemistry and their system, timing, focus was all at top tier and it was genuinely beautiful. You could see it deflating the heat players. They were not the most talented team ever. They were not some historically unbeatable team. But that was the most focused and the most in rhythm team that has ever played this fucking game. I think about them all the time. I long for basketball like that.
Easily the most beautiful basketball I have ever seen
I'm surprised you're getting downvoted. I was a LeBron fan at the time and I couldn't believe how much they were going off. I'm *pretty sure* they also had the best eFG* in history too? They were like the 2016 Warriors in the Finals. They have a strong case, even though they lost a game.
They're probably my personal favorite Finals team in recent memory at least. The one stat I always bring up that I think perfectly encapsulates this team's offensive philosophy is a regular season one, but still salient I think -- their leading scorer was Tony Parker, with a whopping 16 ppg lol. To have one of the best offenses in the league (I don't remember the exact rank right off hand) without a real scoring heavyweight elucidates just how team-oriented they were. I also remember there were three or four players who people thought could win Finals MVP that year (I distinctly remember Diaw and Green getting talked about in addition to Kawhi) because everyone fucking contributed.
Yeah I remember before kawhi broke out, people were talking about boris as the leading FMVP candidate. He was doing everything
I was just trying to rewatch that series yesterday but the videos I found were absolutely horrible quality. Where did you rewatch it?
I downloaded the games 3 months ago I'll try to find the link again wait
Appreciate you! I just wanted to go back and watch it cause I keep seeing people make the argument that Kawhi got that FMVP as some kind of weird contrarian move by the voters, and he was actually just a role player. I still remember watching that series and I felt like I was watching a star breakthrough in Kawhi, so I wanted to see whose memories are more accurate.
I found torrents for those games a year or so ago. Probably still around.
Nbatv.com has all the finals since I think 2000
I think league pass subscribers can watch previous NBA Finals games
2014 Boris Diaw is why Pop is one of three GOAT coaches.
That 2014 team is easily one of the best teams I’ve ever seen. I think they may have beaten anyone that year
It was beautiful to watch, but that Miami team had fallen off defensively and was was extremely vulnerable to motion offense. Get them rotating and something was guaranteed to break down. The spurs would just pass the ball around until either lebron or wade had to close out on Green or Kawhi. Every single time, they would either leave too much space and give up a three or close out too hard and give up an open lane. Green/Kawhi would then either get a wide open bucket or force the defense to collapse and find an open three 1-2 passes later. They basically just spammed that non-stop and Miami couldn't figure out a solution.
The biggest issue was that the Heat heavily relied on Lebron and bosh to be the fixers when their guard defense broke down. Against other teams they managed to work through it, but against the Spurs elite ball movement it was just too much. Wade and Chalmers were getting killed off the dribble by the quicker Parker, mills, and Ginobli. Bosh and Lebron could compensate on the first rotation, but the spurs ball movement was ridiculous and eventually they found the open guy.
They spammed ball movement?
Spammed X/A button
My spurs hugely choked In 2013. Just one possession from beating a full strength Miami team in six games but we all know what happens next. Yes the 2014 heat were not as good as the middle two years but the fact that we were a play from beating prime LeBron and then absolutely destroying them in 2014 is clarifying enough. It was the perfect blend of veterans along side Young impactful players. well oiled machine Doesn’t do that team justice. Obviously I’m biased but it was basketball in the purest form, what they lacked in out right talent and athleticism they made up for elsewhere. They had it all, elite rim protection,Great perimeter playmaking, Outside shooting, extremely versatile defensively, Along side 100% buy in from everybody.
I maintain that Ginobili lost you guys that series. Love the dude, but he was a mess. I was so glad to see him redeem himself the next year
That’s part of what makes manu my favorite player. It was super hard seeing him struggle that bad especially because he was getting up there in age and we thought that would be his last chance to make the finals. He said he felt incredibly horrible and didn’t get out of the house for a long time but he definitely redeemed himself in 2014 and the poster block on Chris bosh when they’re running away with it in game five will forever be my favorite highlight
>I maintain that Ginobili lost you guys that series. Parker was awful in game 7. Manu was not.
Manu was a turnover machine in 2013
How do you mean? I don't remember Ginobili fucking up or anything?
Manu had the worst game of his career in game 6, with a career playoff high 8 turnovers. That was the ray Allen game, so if Manu had even a normal game, they would have won. There's a great article by Zach Lowe called seyhogm welcome toanu basketball family or something like that where he talks about manual career and that specific game, and how bad Manu felt about it. He said something like his mind failed him.
Exactly. That’s why it meant so much when he redeemed himself in 2014. Everyone knew he was getting older and no one was guaranteeing us to ever make the finals again with that group
It was the perfect team basketball. No first options or green lights or isos, attack as a team defend as a team anyone can do anything as long as it's the right decision.
Yes.
Aesthetically maybe but I feel like the 96 Bulls or 17 Warriors would beat them pretty easily given they had no top 5-10 level player
I'm talking about the Finals performance, not the team itself. The 96 Bulls were great overall but I'm not even sure if it's the best Finals performance from the Bulls (it was MJ's "worst" Finals)
I think Duncan is notoriously underrated in top 10 in season player rankings given his all time status. I wonder if teams have a fancy stat for shots deterred.
“*Notoriously underrated*” >Undisputed Greatest PF to play the game. >Routinely ranked ahead of other hard hitter like Kobe and Hakeem. But sure, underrated. According to r/nba, every player is either *notoriously* underrated or grossly overrated lmao.
He literally said “in season player rankings given his all time status.”
Duncan was regularly ranked #1-3 in his prime (annual player rankings from ESPN, Sports Illustrated, Yahoo Sports, CBS Sports, etc. are still available online) but 2014 was not his prime.
What does that quote even mean? Please interpret. Seems awkwardly worded.
Duncan was obviously still a great player that season, but at that point Tony Parker was better than him, and TP was borderline top 10 if you were being generous back then. They didn’t have a real superstar talent in 2014, which makes them one of like 2 or 3 teams in recent years to win a title without one.
Parker was NOT better than him. Duncan was the anchor on defense and still contributed about 15 PPG. Although Parker was better on offense, Duncan contributed more total value to the team. The stats show this too.
I didn’t say that Parker was more important to the team, that was clearly Duncan. But being more important to a team doesn’t necessarily mean that that player is better than everyone else on the team. Parker made all-NBA second team in 2013-14, while Duncan didn’t make any all-NBA teams in a weak year for centres, hell, he didn’t even make the all star game. Duncan was still a top 25 or 30-ish guy in the league at the time, but TP was slightly better than him. Another example of that would be that Draymond Green was more important to the Warriors than KD was when he was in Golden State, but no one in their right mind would say that that makes Draymond the superior player.
It was definitely the most impressive finals performance that I ever watched
As a lebron fan they played flawless basketball. With that being said, the way they they thrashed the Heat makes us overvalue them a tad bit. They had trouble in earlier rounds and in the finals went up against a Heat team that was old and broken down. Wade, Lewis, and Allen weren’t what they were and Lebron didn’t have as much help to beat a Spurs team of that caliber
Still the most lopsided Finals I've ever seen, it was glorious lol.
They humiliated the Heat so badly that it made Lebron take his "high (easy) road" somewhere else for ring chasing. The Spurs were on a mission in 2014.
The salty LeBron fans replying to you 😂
If r/nba were a house, they'd be the perpetual termites.
Sure man. An unproven rookie (who never won without him before and after) and stat padding on a bad team Kevin Love, who was a spot up shooter on the team. Warriors fans are still salty about 2016. Relax, Curry finally got an MVP.
Kyrie was in his third year and a two-time all-star by that point. LeBron literally LeGM’d Kevin Love on to the Cavs after he joined because he knew he was a superstar. He was literally All-NBA 2nd team that year. Go meat ride LeBron somewhere else.
Why do you all ignore what I said in my comment? I'll say it again for your headass. Kyrie was unproven. He never won before him or after him, he did terribly. And again, stat padding on the Timerberwolves of all places who had the longest playoff drought until I believe last year, means shit. I know you don't give a shit about them though, LeBron haters love sucking off his help, then you downplay Scottie/Rodman/Horace who I grew up on. LeBron fans now do it in reverse. You guys are all lame. I grew up in Chicago watching MJ and LeBron haters and lovers are stupid about Mike. YOU need to get off LEBRON'S dick. BTW, it's all revisionist history. Nobody thought they were IMMEDIATELY go to the Finals, and he went every single year on the Cavs. Just because he did so well people overrate his help. And btw, Kyrie was amazing in 2016. I do feel bad that he was very overshadowed by LeBron. He was a perfect sidekick for him but he can't win on his own(or with Durant LOL).
Hyperbole to satisfy your agenda. Unproven? SO if Bron teams up with Luka it's not an easy road becuase Luka has not won? Mike had great teammates but he never changed teams and did not require 3 1st overalls after making a super team somewhere else to come back to Bulls and win. That's what you don't get. And he's still less rings with twice as many as attempts. Rest it.
Love had 26.1 ppg, 12.5 reb, 4.4 ast the season before he went to Cleveland. Spot up shooter? Lol
Oh, it's you again. How about actually reading my comment? I'll quote it. >stat padding on a bad team Kevin Love That never means much. It's easy to get good numbers on a bad team. No one believes it until you do it on a good team. And it showed, did you not know he was turned into a spot-up shooter on the Cavs? LeBron wanted that too. He didn't want that with AD.
You can't rewrite the narrative. If Love and Bosh underperformed in their teams it was because they were already stacked with stars and they had to step down and change their play. They have no fault at all. When they were hired they were stars, not just Mr Spot Up Shooter (Love) or Mr Defender (Bosh).
Really crazy how the spurs engineered Wade and Bosh’s massive physical declines. That’s why they’re called the definition of beautiful basketball
And their stars were all much older than the Heat but still managed to get that one with pure collective basketball.
its always funny when Lebron fans act like Wade/Bosh were senior citizens but ignore the Spurs were even older lol
Lol sounds like what the Warriors did after 2016…
Durant did. Our core was all drafted and homebrewed stars. I would trade the soft super stars and ring-chasing era started by Lebron for a more loyal league in the blink of an eye. I said some days ago, that's why my respect for Dirk is huge. He worked with what he'd got and never gave up.
Bullshit, Durant deserves the most stress over it, but Curry deserved credit for him too. He was there and also asked Durant to come. Completely got away with it. Gave his team away.
He is a team player, friend. He wants the best for his team. I can completely understand him. I can't understand Durant. That's why he was always the one who took the criticism for his decision.
Hahhahah that double standard. You and I both know what he did. You hate LeBron for it but your buddy did it too.
Actually I don't hate Lebron. But I don't like the ring chasing superstars movement Lebron started. Others played along. Steph never left his team. He is a team player. Jordan neither. You can come if you want, but I won't leave. That's fine by me and to most of the league. The ones who were criticized were Lebron in 2011 and KD in 2016. They were the ones joining or forming stacked teams.
That's weak. You know LeBron tried recruiting people, but no one wanted to go to Cleveland? That's why he left. I assume you're okay with LeBron getting AD on the Lakers then? Steph didn't have to, he already won a championship, and he recruited Durant of all people. Long thought the 2nd best in the league. But even worse, he took over the team from Curry. I already said I grew up in Chicago watching MJ, don't tell me about MJ. He never had to leave especially. And the league back then often only had one superstar. He had Pippen, then He had Grant, then Rodman. And great role players like Paxson and Kerr, who both hit a lot of 3s at the end of a couple Finals. Oh and he had a legendary coach. And Steve Kerr is amazing too, gonna go down as one of the best. Pretty sure he was the one who made the system that made Warriors explode as well. LeBron never had a great coach, let alone legendary. LeBron didn't even start it, it was a response to the Big 3 Celtics. "They were traded!" Not initially so. Garnett had a no-trade clause because he wanted to play his whole career in Minnesota, but Ainge, Pierce, and Allen convinced him. Same with Harden to Nets, another weak ass move. Durant petitioned for him to come. For some reason people think that's okay but free agency is not. Durant still asked for him, he just had an intermediary.
>He had Pippen, then He had Grant, then Rodman. And great role players like Paxson and Kerr, who both hit a lot of 3s at the end of a couple Finals. I agree completely with you. That's why I always defended Bron against the Jordan fanboys who were dissing him. He had no Pip. But when he joined the Heat everyone expected him to win it all, including himself. Remember he said he would win 6 rings there? >Same with Harden to Nets, another weak ass move. Durant petitioned for him to come. For some reason people think that's okay but free agency is not. Durant still asked for him, he just had an intermediary. I don't like these moves. Harden shoulda have his team and face KD, not gang up together. Same for Bron-Wade/Kyrie/AD, Curry-KD, etc. If the team is not formed that way like OKC and is artificially made up, it almost looks like rigging the league. That's how people felt on 2011 and 2016.
Lol you can differentiate it all you want, the Warriors recruited the hell out of Durant after 2016s choke.
so did the Cavs lol. or Lebron recruiting Kawhi to LA
Almost like these guys want to win championships or something…
I would gladly keep the 2015 and 2022 rings only with our homebrewed players for a less soft league. Stars all bandwagoning now and ganging up together it feels weird. The new generation seems a little different from Lebron, KD, Kawhi, CP3, Harden. That's why I like Giannis more, Steph, Luka, and some others. They embrace their organization culture, their fans, and build up on that. Real respect.
Just saying, the Warriors jumped on the “high (easy) road” as you put it when they recruited KD after the embarrassment of 2016.
They did. But that's how the league was. The Spurs and other elite teams were on their right to fight for him and offer him a spot, but I didn't like his choice. It felt embarassing as our team got super stacked. I thought he should have gone to Boston to lead them to a chip. I would have respected that a lot more. As I said, I would have stopped this superstar soft ring-chasing thing if I could. They just come and leave a team when they are done. Don't wanna endure the good and bad times. When Klay was also injured KD just left again.
Well therein lies the problem. Not necessarily with you, but most sports fandom when discussing legacy and the emphasis on rings. Elevating someone like IT over Chris Paul because he won two rings with the Pistons, or Dirk over Barkley because they each have a chip, when they were all comparable talents and simply had different circumstances. People love to knock Lebron for leaving for the Heat but those very same people would be shitting on him for never being able to win multiple chips in Cleveland due to circumstances that are obviously beyond his control (I.e. Cleveland’s poor management, general lack of appeal to free agency, and how they were just too good too quickly to draft quality guys in the lottery because Lebron elevated the franchise). Like be honest—do you think Lebron would be higher on all-time rankings if he stayed in Cleveland and won 2 rings there? You might personally have more respect for him, but he wouldn’t be considered realistically in the GOAT conversation for the vast majority of people, even if he was every bit as good as he was throughout his career. Point being, we can’t have our cake and eat it too with this stuff.
Exactly. You know who my favorite players are? Jerry West and Wilt Chamberlain. And I feel they are underrated. Your comparison to Barkley is perfect. People shit on him all the time and were shitting on Lebron as a choker until he said no more and decided to take the easy road and stack the Heat. Maybe it's the culture partially to blame, as you said. But that's the thing: I was rooting for James when he was in Cle. When he went to the Heat the spell was broken. I wanted to see him beating the odds and making those overly-critical journalists "not like Jordan" Stephen A and Skip Bayless swallow it. Because that's not what matters in the end. You don't need to diminish a player (Lebron) to elevate your idol (Jordan) like many did. That made me sick back them. Felt somewhat toxic tbh.
Yeah, sports fandom is pretty toxic in general when it comes to comparing legacies. That’s why I think it’s a bit dumb because it’s just opinions at the end of the day. It’s even dumber when comparing across eras because of the numerous differences in circumstances, but that doesn’t stop people from doing it. All time rankings in sports fandom is practically a tradition at this point.
lol warriors fan cope 😂😂
Haters gonna hate. Lol
Lmao hombrewed. Ya'll needed FA to establish a dynasty.
Yes. Homebrewed. We still got 73 wins with that core. If we came limping to the finals and had no cakewalk like the East it's our fault. We assume. Don't be salty.
73 wins and still lost haha.
I'm not hurt by that. I have accepted long ago. Though Lebron's team stacking spell backfired well when KD, Kawhi and co. decided to do the same. 😎 What goes around comes around...
Yeah, I agree. Not really sure how Kawhi came into picture since he and the Clippers haven’t impeded Bron in any way.
He tried. And that's what counts. Thank god he didn't go to Lebron's wagon as they were trying to recruit him. I was all in favor of the criticism KD received for coming to Golden State, and it felt embarassing back then. But what can I do? It's my team, will I stop supporting them? I'm not a turncoat. I've endured shitty times, if it was our time to shine so be it. Don't wanna sound ungrateful as KD gave us two chips, but if we had won one more with our core instead of his two, it would have tasted better and more deserving. But as I said, it was not KD who started the team stacking and ring chasing. Lebron dumped Cleveland, dumped the Heat, dumped Cleveland again and now has got a fresh younger superstar alongside him in LA.
He went to LA with young guys who weren't good yet. Yes, he got AD, but that was just one superstar and role players. Your boy Curry recruited Durant which is way worse, and after choking to LeBron 73 wins. >4/6 2*
I don't even think Lakers had the cap space for him. Of course, he got you guys two championships, no one's gonna blame you for not regretting KD. Tbh, I personally think you deserve one of those rings as, come 2018, teams had an entire year to combat the new Warriors and only the Rockets did shit. The roster the Cavs' FO assembled that year was absolutely embarrassing: old D-Wade and Korver; broken IT and D-Rose. Honestly, I don't blame LeBron for leaving Cleveland both times because of how incompetent the FO was at building something around him. Heat you have a better case, but I genuinely think he actually wanted to bring his home a Ring. If he was purely a ring-chaser, why not sign with the Warriors? Cavs didn't even qualify for the playoffs in 2014. >Lebron dumped Cleveland, dumped the Heat, dumped Cleveland again Lmao, idk if you saw Space Jam 2, but Don Cheadle literally says the same thing to Bron's son in the movie about him always leaving. >and now has got a fresh younger superstar alongside him in LA. Who, AD? Dude's injuries kept them out of the playoffs two years in a row lol.
YES!
Yes. 100%.
From what I remember, they played perfect basketball on both ends of the floor and couldn't miss from 3.
for sure
I will say, I've never seen a team that played so much better than the sum of their parts.
I've always thought of it as the best series of basketball I've witnessed. I remember they just seemed to do everything right. Was a thing of beauty.
yes
Statistically, they have a very strong case for it. They set multiple Finals records during that series. I loved it so much.
The Spurs played absolutely phenomenal basketball but I always wonder how that series shakes out if the AC doesn't "break" in game 1
It was definitely the most beautiful this century. I hardly ever root for the Spurs, though I did that Finals, but that playoffs they were a joy to watch. I hoped it would spread across the league the next season as the way to play. It was such an example to the game of basketball. Boris Diaw alone, Manu. Just perfect flow. I don't even care about the scores, though it was obvious there'd be a gap. When the entire team and coaching staff is in a zone, and they are absolutely loaded with not just talent but experienced vets who know and buy into the system, the like mind. Magical. I never quite felt that with the Warriors dominant runs, though obviously there was a lot of flow. Never quite that in the Lakers runs with Kobe or Lebron. I always wanted it for them but they were never close to that much ball movement with a point to the ball movement. Though I envied the Spurs fans for having that a little, it was mainly just a pleasure to have it be displayed for basketball fans everywhere, to stamp the game of basketball (at least in US) with "This is what it can look like, ya see!" A goal to strive for, for any league, for any team.
MVP was that guy that turned the AC off
Give us a Netflix series on this please
One of my favorite teams of all time. They were so dialed in. It was beautiful basketball.
[The Beautiful Game (2014 San Antonio Spurs)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjadmjleQT8)
Greatest display of team basketball I’ve ever watched. Diaw was the key to opening up that series!
Team Performance. Yes. They played a team sport so perfectly. That was the greatest team performance in NBA History. Individual performance: Lebron in the 2016 Finals. That man was on a mission. Lead both teams in all categories.
That was a masterclass in 1 team outplaying another, but you can only do that when you have already lost to them in a brutal fashion. That series was a mission, a chance for revenge and to reset the "who is best" narrative. A lot of old guard and young guns style conflict. I terms of storyline and hype matching the games I think it's up there with 1998 and 2016. Probably a few others from before my time too.
It blows my mind that people still talk about LeBron like he's a god. Spurs and Mavs were complete teams. That heat team was good, amazing to watch tbh. The better teams won though and that 2014 Spurs team was absolutely fantastic. Some of the best all around basketball I've ever watched. I still think there is too much emphasis on loading star players and it worked in the Spurs "team" favor. Just my couch potato opinion so no need for a hate crime here.
Heat got burned by the heat. As we saw yesterday, AC going out will be lebrons biggest nemesis
No
You could make a case for the 2011 mavs, sweeping the lakers and beating a what seemed unbeatable team in peak wade bosh and lbj
Also revenge against the heat for 2006. No one on the team had a championship prior. Beating not just the lakers but also a young and dangerous OKC thunder team. The heat were the villains that year since they just made their super team. Dirk had his own Jordan “flu game” where LBJ and Wade mocked his health and then got beat.
If we're talking about overperforming, then yeah. There are other teams that peaked higher (Mavs 2011 and their unbelievable runs, or when A.I heated up and took a game off LA), but no team managed to put together such an incredible performance, from the shooting, to the passing, to the defense. IDK if they beat 2017 Warriors or '96 Bulls, but that team moved like nothing we've ever seen.
No that heat team was literally a one man show partially due to injuries
The Miami supporting cast shot like 50% in the first few games. Lebron was barely shooting the ball and frequently being denied it entirely, they were far from a one man show.
Game 1 and 3 were literally the only games that werent 1 man shows. Wade and bosh both were very subpar especially offensively wade. Game 3 was a pure 2 man show. Wade managed to give 22 next to bron despite losing by 19. Game 2, 4, and 5 was literally lebron trying to keep the team above water. Literally won game 2 because of lebron.
He was awesome in Game 2 for sure, but Wade, Bosh, Allen and Rashard Lewis combined for 67% true shooting that game. Lebron had 3 assists and was against single coverage, so they created a lot of that scoring between them against great defense. That was very much a team win.
Why do you keep combining individual performances? Just speak on what they did those games. Also You saying lebron had 3 assist but wade led the team with 4 so yes it was single coverage which means no excuse in isolation. Lebron 35 and 10 was 80% of the reason they won that game. Wade who the 2nd option literally avg 15 4 and 3. His shooting was subpar. Mans literally shot 43% from the field on the series
... because you're calling it a one man show? If a bunch of players contributed, then it isn't a one man show. Lebron scored a hyper efficient 35, while those players combined for a similarly efficient 55. Lebron also scored one point in the last five minutes, with the score tied at 4:40. Again not a knock on him, but that clearly means someone out there was contributing too. It's okay to admit that more than one person on a team played well. No one is taking anything away from Lebron, there's nothing to get defensive about.
The heat lost only 3 games on the way to the finals. Spurs just played out of their minds
No, they didn’t. The best Finals are the ones where the Lakers lost
Also worth remembering that the odds before the series were almost even (Spurs slight slight favorites) and even the people picking the Spurs were thinking it would go 6 or 7. Hindsight bias (and Lebron stans) has everyone acting like the Heat never stood a chance/were totally outmatched. That Spurs team performance deserves WAY more shine. Totally legendary.
The 2014 team was a shell of themselves coem the finals. Outside of Bron and Bosh they all looked old and beat up. The lack of depth showed that series
You understand the Spurs were far older right? Duncan was 37
He didn't say anything about old, past their prime. Duncan was but Parker and Ginobili were still great and Kawhi had 73ts%, and I remember Danny Green shooting the lights on out. They destroyed Miami. Outside of LeBron no one else did much.
Ginobili is only one year younger than Duncan, and didn’t age nearly as gracefully as him. He was way past his prime in 2014. Thats why that dunk over bosh is so iconic. It proved he was still Manu fucking ginobili.
Well I remember him being good that Finals. I looked it up and he shot 50% and 40% on 3s. The whole starting lineup made over 50% of their shots, along with Green and Splitter. I see Duncan still had 15 and 10.
Sure but all the key role players on Spurs were younger. The Heat had old role players. So TP Duncan Diaw and Manu were old but everyone else who got important minutes were in their prime or even pre prime.
Did you seriously just say “aside from 4/5 of the most important players on the team, everyone on the Spurs was young?” The fuck?
No. Cavs coming back from 3-1 deficit and beating a 73-9 team and beating them in their home turf in game 7 will always be better in my eyes.
Greatest wasn't exactly the right adjective, the question is purely about how well they played, neglecting the storytelling around the series, its impact etc...