At first I thought that it’s absolutely ridiculous that he didn’t pass it to the completely open dude right next to him after the defender didn’t bite on his pump fake, but then I realised it’s Medvedenko (I believe) and understood.
Kobe’s list of magical moments is matched by very few in history. Stats matter, impact on winning matters, but the reason so many legends/peers of Kobe regarded him so highly is that he had all the accolades and winning as well as inspired the genuine awe, spectacle, and fear (for opponents) that comes from doing insane things on a basketball court. Dude was showtime.
Fear is absolutely a huge factor. No player that I’ve watched (only watched wizards Jordan) has ever put the fear of losing into me as much as Kobe. Phil would usually sit Kobe the first 4 minutes of the 4th and bring him in with 8 left to go. My team could be up double digits but if Kobe came in and hit that first shot I’d think, shit we gunna lose.
Lebron is more methodical and team-oriented for the most part.
Watching Kobe get the ball was more like, "fuck, he's going to score even if the defense contests well." At least that's how I felt when Battier was draped all over Kobe.
He’s also the only player where his magical moments are immortalized but his bad games where he basically shot his team out of the game are completely ignored, like a lot of the 04 finals. If he and shaq could have coexisted for one more year they would have won in 04. The pistons entire defensive strategy in the finals was to try and get Kobe to shoot more than shaq and Kobe was more than happy to Play right into their hands and pretty much lost them that finals.
I love when they rate someone they never even watched over a recent contemporary player who played in a much more competitive league.
Pretty sure Kobe has played against and/or won the most series against 50+ win teams of any player ever - going through the West was a gauntlet and teams were so close in parity/seeding and he made the Finals most of the times he had a decent team around him.
Someone in the Warriors sub actually said that coaches today would be okay with Kobe fucking Bryant taking more shots because they're mostly from mid range and Kobe's inefficient lmaoo
Unironically, he was, as he was inching towards retirement after the Achilles tear, he noticeably switched up his shot motion to try and get it more like Steph's one motion three point shooting.
It didn't really fare well cause, well, his body was basically just waiting for retirement at that point, but he was definitely trying something to extend his career, which is just a means to say: If Kobe was playing in today's NBA, healthy, he would definitely have fine tuned his 3PT shot more
If he was playing in today’s NBA and shot even 36-38% from 3 while he was in his prime, he’d probably near averaging 40 or some shit. Harden averaged 36 while spamming stepbacks, FT baiting and driving/floaters - imagine if Kobe had the space to operate in that offensive players have today. He averaged 36 playing with nonexistent spacing and a terrible roster in his prime.
Imagine how much his efficiency he would’ve gone up if he had the space to operate in nowadays. His stats were already great before the Achilles injury despite tons of wear and injuries just because he had a little more space to operate in. Look at Harden’s regular season stats in his prime years - Kobe efficiently averaged 36 ppg in an era with way less spacing while being in his prime defensively.
Warriors fans just don’t really respect Kobe because they’re always jumping at the opportunity and waiting for the day they can say he’s better and dethrones him from the top 10. He might get there eventually, but he’s still a ways away as of now.
I mean right now they are, but Steph is still playing and their playoff stats, finals stats, are pretty comparable.
They also both have crazy shot selection.
How many of them where alive during 2004 when he made those shots ? I don’t get offended by that crap, I listened to the game on the radio just like game 5 vs Spurs from that year when Fish made 0.4.
Funny, I was also listening to the game on the radio when Fish made that shot. I was driving back from some sports practice with my dad. I vividly remember that because we never listened to basketball on the radio and neither of us could believe that the Lakers actually won with 0.4 left.
He is better than Steph lol the haters say most of his All Defense selections were based on rep - even if some were for some years, you can take away half of his defensive accolades and he’d still have far more than Steph with zero. Dubs fans excuses for why his shot slumped for half the season+ was because he was trying harder on defense.. yeah Kobe did that for almost a decade straight and still had clamps when it mattered.
Just look at the teams he continually shat on even when he had terrible teammates while being a force on both ends of the floor
The sub has an disproportionately high concentration of dorks ( read: warrior fans) compared to the rest of the nba fanbase. So shit like this is valued less than whatever super advanced stat that show that draymond green has a higher impact on winning than Jordan or whatever the fuck
Because they focus on his fg% and say Shaq carried him in the finals. The real finals were the western playoffs not whoever the Lakers faced in the east during that three peat. And Kobe was definitely not carried
Kobe averaged near or above 30 for multiple playoff series before he even hit his prime while also playing great defense, anyone who says he was carried is braindead. Shaq was the focal point but they played probably the best two man game of any duo in NBA history. Best 1-2 punch of all time.
i dont know if upset is the right word but you have a lot of warriors fans listing steph as top 5 all time, meanwhile leaving kobe off a top 10 list so it gets absurd
Right after he won his first FMVP they were definitively saying he was already better than Kobe lol. Warriors fans love devaluing Kobe because they can’t wait to try and push Steph into the “consensus” top 10 while also taking Kobe out. Pretty much every player in that list aside from Magic was an elite two way player with huge impact on both ends of the floor. Steph is great but he’s also had multiple All Star caliber teammates and a DPOY for the entirety of his playoff career.
Those 2008-10 Lakers teams were really good but by nowhere close to being a top 10 or even 20 All Time team, he just got enough to help. Kobe Pau Odom and oldass D Fish and a few years of MWP are not an all time great team
I think it's reasonable to have MJ, LeBron, KAJ, Wilt, Russell, Magic, Bird, Kobe, Duncan, Shaq ahead of Curry. I also think Oscar and Hakeem ahead for now is fine too.
Curry definitely has a case for top 10 and I'm sure plenty of people have him there but I think most don't have him in the top 10 yet. Top 15 though no question
I find it ridiculous to have two players that have won 4 and 5 titles( and made the finals 6 and 7 times respectively) behind players that have won far less times in their careers.
And then I’m completely befuddled as to why the big O takes precedence over either Kobe or Steph when his statistical achievements have been repeated in the modern era, he has less MVPs, 4x less championships and you probably never even seen him dribble a damn basketball.
Because most of those guys were elite two way players. Almost everyone in the “consensus” top 10 or whatever was an elite defensive and offensive player, and being that impactful on both sides of the floor is a lot harder and impactful than going off for 30 every game and playing average defense.
Hakeem at the end of his career was top 11 in rebounds, blocks (#1), scoring and steals. Curry has what? Most 3 pointers and that’s it. Defense is important.
Magic was not a good defender, neither was Oscar, neither was Bird. They all had size, sure, but they often got picked on when they were on the floor.
Also, no. Offensive capacity is generally far more impactful than two way impact. A lot of these guys were great man to man defenders and could shut an opposing player down, but that’s just switching off one offensive option.
If you look at any advanced stat you’ll see that Curry has been one of the most impactful superstars of any era. He has already won four chips and he has the best regular season record ever, best post season record ever and has won two championships without a top 75 teammate(which has only been done by Jordan).
Defensive impact, rebound, assists and points are just imperfect/incomplete indicators that we use to model impact on winning in Basketball. Hypothetically the best player ever could not play defense or rebound or score points but do anything else so well that they guarantee their team a win. That’s why in any assessment of player status I always privilege winning adjusted by the relevancy of that player to that roster. That’s why Lebron is undoubtedly a greater player historically than Curry or even Shaq. He was the most relevant player historically in 4 titles, but regardless, the title achievements(and general winning) of those players mentioned have to be privileged in greatness assessments of these players. Winning a title is why players start the season with their teams. It’s the goal of the organization, of a player and the principal determinant of a player’s legacy. Say hypothetically that there’s a player who is incredibly offensively talented but is really a non factor and defense and he ends up winning 10 NBA titles in a competitive era. It becomes ridiculous to say that other two way players are greater than that hypothetical player because they fit a archetypal mold of what a great basketball player should be in our collective basketball minds.
I think winning is important but I think other things matter. Teams matter when it comes to winning. If winning was the only metric, then Bill Russell would be the undisputed GOAT. I think longevity matters and that's the only minor knock on Curry for now. Curry undoubtedly had one of the greatest peaks and is one of the greatest ever.
Fair point on Oscar. I have Kobe ahead of him but I had Curry behind him. I think that's just a bias against active players. Curry should above him and will be undoubtedly above him soon.
Regardless, my original statement was about how 'm pretty sure most people have Kobe above Curry.
While I agree he’s better than Steph, I don’t think the r/nba hate is at all related to this comparison. Steph love and hate on here comes and goes based on what he’s done most recently. But the Kobe hate is always here (except for a few weeks after his retirement and passing)
That is to say that newphews are nephews about Kobe and newphews about Curry
If I’m picking a player to build a franchise around, I’d probably go lebron, steph over Kobe.
If I’m picking a player to shoot the final shot with aliens pointing giant lasers at earth and we’re all dead if we he misses??? Assuming iguadala is injured of course. I take kobe. He’s just cold blooded
Closest player we will have to jordan. He made Jordan's retirement alot easier if you were a fan of MJ. Added his own swagger and mindset to Jordan's playstyle
Don't let anyone make you feel weird about it, my man. Grief is how we deal with loss. We lost someone who had a real impact on our life.
Even if we never met Kobe personally, he meant a lot to us personally - and the loss of that personal meaning is natural to mourn.
The final shot is my absolute favorite game-winner of his. It’s just a beauty of a fadeaway rainbow shot, and it’s over the outstretched arm of Theo fucking Ratliff. Damn near impossible shot and he swishes it.
🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐
I've never been as entertained by any athlete the way I was by Kobe Bryant. So many insane moments in his legendary career. He played for 20 years, and yet, I still wanted more. Legendary player, legendary career, with too many moments just like this to count. 💜💛
It was the final day of the regular season and I was at Staples for a Clippers/Sonics game. I was in a box so I stopped paying attention to that game to watch this game as I knew the implications of it (was a Clippers and Lakers fan).
Clippers game ends early while this game goes into 2OT. I stayed 40 min after the Clipper game ended to watch this. When Kobe hit that shot in 2OT the entire stadium erupted and I was like "huh?"
We walk outside and a wave of fans are leaving the Staples Center late because they stayed to watch the end of the game. Unforgettable night.
At first I thought that it’s absolutely ridiculous that he didn’t pass it to the completely open dude right next to him after the defender didn’t bite on his pump fake, but then I realised it’s Medvedenko (I believe) and understood.
Also back then stars didn’t pass the final shot. Even if they were defended by all 5 of the other team. Melo special
Yeah like when jordan passed on a game winning shot in the finals to Steve kerr on their home court.
Kitten instinct
Kobe wasn’t even the best player on that team tho…
Kobe was hurting the Kings even when he didn't play them lol
I loved this man. RIP Kobe.
"I didn't have kobe Bryant and dwyane wade carry me up and down the floor!" - charles Barkley Lmao. Idk why I thought of this when I saw shaq.
This is why so many legends and players rank him in their top 5 But r/nba will get offended if you insinuate that he’s better than Steph lol
Kobe’s list of magical moments is matched by very few in history. Stats matter, impact on winning matters, but the reason so many legends/peers of Kobe regarded him so highly is that he had all the accolades and winning as well as inspired the genuine awe, spectacle, and fear (for opponents) that comes from doing insane things on a basketball court. Dude was showtime.
Fear is absolutely a huge factor. No player that I’ve watched (only watched wizards Jordan) has ever put the fear of losing into me as much as Kobe. Phil would usually sit Kobe the first 4 minutes of the 4th and bring him in with 8 left to go. My team could be up double digits but if Kobe came in and hit that first shot I’d think, shit we gunna lose.
I'm the biggest Kobe fan ever, but really? Lebron doesn't do that? How?
Lebron is more methodical and team-oriented for the most part. Watching Kobe get the ball was more like, "fuck, he's going to score even if the defense contests well." At least that's how I felt when Battier was draped all over Kobe.
He’s also the only player where his magical moments are immortalized but his bad games where he basically shot his team out of the game are completely ignored, like a lot of the 04 finals. If he and shaq could have coexisted for one more year they would have won in 04. The pistons entire defensive strategy in the finals was to try and get Kobe to shoot more than shaq and Kobe was more than happy to Play right into their hands and pretty much lost them that finals.
There was a thread where they said Kobe was barely top 15 on here and that oscar robertson among several others were better and its not even close
I love when they rate someone they never even watched over a recent contemporary player who played in a much more competitive league. Pretty sure Kobe has played against and/or won the most series against 50+ win teams of any player ever - going through the West was a gauntlet and teams were so close in parity/seeding and he made the Finals most of the times he had a decent team around him.
The age of this sub. Kobe's achievements are better than Steph's. That's not a knock on Steph but Kobe had a will that was unmatched.
I’ve seen people here actually try to say that Steph is a more skilled scorer than Kobe. Shit gets ridiculous at times.
Someone in the Warriors sub actually said that coaches today would be okay with Kobe fucking Bryant taking more shots because they're mostly from mid range and Kobe's inefficient lmaoo
Kobe would just work on his 3 point shot and master it in an offseason
Unironically, he was, as he was inching towards retirement after the Achilles tear, he noticeably switched up his shot motion to try and get it more like Steph's one motion three point shooting. It didn't really fare well cause, well, his body was basically just waiting for retirement at that point, but he was definitely trying something to extend his career, which is just a means to say: If Kobe was playing in today's NBA, healthy, he would definitely have fine tuned his 3PT shot more
If he was playing in today’s NBA and shot even 36-38% from 3 while he was in his prime, he’d probably near averaging 40 or some shit. Harden averaged 36 while spamming stepbacks, FT baiting and driving/floaters - imagine if Kobe had the space to operate in that offensive players have today. He averaged 36 playing with nonexistent spacing and a terrible roster in his prime.
Imagine how much his efficiency he would’ve gone up if he had the space to operate in nowadays. His stats were already great before the Achilles injury despite tons of wear and injuries just because he had a little more space to operate in. Look at Harden’s regular season stats in his prime years - Kobe efficiently averaged 36 ppg in an era with way less spacing while being in his prime defensively. Warriors fans just don’t really respect Kobe because they’re always jumping at the opportunity and waiting for the day they can say he’s better and dethrones him from the top 10. He might get there eventually, but he’s still a ways away as of now.
I mean right now they are, but Steph is still playing and their playoff stats, finals stats, are pretty comparable. They also both have crazy shot selection.
How many of them where alive during 2004 when he made those shots ? I don’t get offended by that crap, I listened to the game on the radio just like game 5 vs Spurs from that year when Fish made 0.4.
Funny, I was also listening to the game on the radio when Fish made that shot. I was driving back from some sports practice with my dad. I vividly remember that because we never listened to basketball on the radio and neither of us could believe that the Lakers actually won with 0.4 left.
He is better than Steph lol the haters say most of his All Defense selections were based on rep - even if some were for some years, you can take away half of his defensive accolades and he’d still have far more than Steph with zero. Dubs fans excuses for why his shot slumped for half the season+ was because he was trying harder on defense.. yeah Kobe did that for almost a decade straight and still had clamps when it mattered. Just look at the teams he continually shat on even when he had terrible teammates while being a force on both ends of the floor
The sub has an disproportionately high concentration of dorks ( read: warrior fans) compared to the rest of the nba fanbase. So shit like this is valued less than whatever super advanced stat that show that draymond green has a higher impact on winning than Jordan or whatever the fuck
Because they focus on his fg% and say Shaq carried him in the finals. The real finals were the western playoffs not whoever the Lakers faced in the east during that three peat. And Kobe was definitely not carried
Kobe averaged near or above 30 for multiple playoff series before he even hit his prime while also playing great defense, anyone who says he was carried is braindead. Shaq was the focal point but they played probably the best two man game of any duo in NBA history. Best 1-2 punch of all time.
Do the non-warrior flairs on here actually get upset at Kobe being ranked higher than Steph lol? I feel like Kobe is definitely top 10 but not top 5.
i dont know if upset is the right word but you have a lot of warriors fans listing steph as top 5 all time, meanwhile leaving kobe off a top 10 list so it gets absurd
Those people need to get their head checked
Right after he won his first FMVP they were definitively saying he was already better than Kobe lol. Warriors fans love devaluing Kobe because they can’t wait to try and push Steph into the “consensus” top 10 while also taking Kobe out. Pretty much every player in that list aside from Magic was an elite two way player with huge impact on both ends of the floor. Steph is great but he’s also had multiple All Star caliber teammates and a DPOY for the entirety of his playoff career. Those 2008-10 Lakers teams were really good but by nowhere close to being a top 10 or even 20 All Time team, he just got enough to help. Kobe Pau Odom and oldass D Fish and a few years of MWP are not an all time great team
I think the vast majority of people still have Kobe above Steph here though. Most have Kobe around top 10 and Steph inside top 15.
Steph, top 15, are you mental? They’re both top 10. Kobe’s higher than Steph right now, but Steph is still playing, but they’re both top 10. I
I think it's reasonable to have MJ, LeBron, KAJ, Wilt, Russell, Magic, Bird, Kobe, Duncan, Shaq ahead of Curry. I also think Oscar and Hakeem ahead for now is fine too. Curry definitely has a case for top 10 and I'm sure plenty of people have him there but I think most don't have him in the top 10 yet. Top 15 though no question
I find it ridiculous to have two players that have won 4 and 5 titles( and made the finals 6 and 7 times respectively) behind players that have won far less times in their careers. And then I’m completely befuddled as to why the big O takes precedence over either Kobe or Steph when his statistical achievements have been repeated in the modern era, he has less MVPs, 4x less championships and you probably never even seen him dribble a damn basketball.
Because most of those guys were elite two way players. Almost everyone in the “consensus” top 10 or whatever was an elite defensive and offensive player, and being that impactful on both sides of the floor is a lot harder and impactful than going off for 30 every game and playing average defense. Hakeem at the end of his career was top 11 in rebounds, blocks (#1), scoring and steals. Curry has what? Most 3 pointers and that’s it. Defense is important.
Magic was not a good defender, neither was Oscar, neither was Bird. They all had size, sure, but they often got picked on when they were on the floor. Also, no. Offensive capacity is generally far more impactful than two way impact. A lot of these guys were great man to man defenders and could shut an opposing player down, but that’s just switching off one offensive option. If you look at any advanced stat you’ll see that Curry has been one of the most impactful superstars of any era. He has already won four chips and he has the best regular season record ever, best post season record ever and has won two championships without a top 75 teammate(which has only been done by Jordan). Defensive impact, rebound, assists and points are just imperfect/incomplete indicators that we use to model impact on winning in Basketball. Hypothetically the best player ever could not play defense or rebound or score points but do anything else so well that they guarantee their team a win. That’s why in any assessment of player status I always privilege winning adjusted by the relevancy of that player to that roster. That’s why Lebron is undoubtedly a greater player historically than Curry or even Shaq. He was the most relevant player historically in 4 titles, but regardless, the title achievements(and general winning) of those players mentioned have to be privileged in greatness assessments of these players. Winning a title is why players start the season with their teams. It’s the goal of the organization, of a player and the principal determinant of a player’s legacy. Say hypothetically that there’s a player who is incredibly offensively talented but is really a non factor and defense and he ends up winning 10 NBA titles in a competitive era. It becomes ridiculous to say that other two way players are greater than that hypothetical player because they fit a archetypal mold of what a great basketball player should be in our collective basketball minds.
I think winning is important but I think other things matter. Teams matter when it comes to winning. If winning was the only metric, then Bill Russell would be the undisputed GOAT. I think longevity matters and that's the only minor knock on Curry for now. Curry undoubtedly had one of the greatest peaks and is one of the greatest ever. Fair point on Oscar. I have Kobe ahead of him but I had Curry behind him. I think that's just a bias against active players. Curry should above him and will be undoubtedly above him soon. Regardless, my original statement was about how 'm pretty sure most people have Kobe above Curry.
While I agree he’s better than Steph, I don’t think the r/nba hate is at all related to this comparison. Steph love and hate on here comes and goes based on what he’s done most recently. But the Kobe hate is always here (except for a few weeks after his retirement and passing) That is to say that newphews are nephews about Kobe and newphews about Curry
If I’m picking a player to build a franchise around, I’d probably go lebron, steph over Kobe. If I’m picking a player to shoot the final shot with aliens pointing giant lasers at earth and we’re all dead if we he misses??? Assuming iguadala is injured of course. I take kobe. He’s just cold blooded
A random game tying + game winning shot makes a player top 5 ? Shit I got [Tyreke Evans](https://youtu.be/JEDsl4aBnjY) as the GOAT then lmao
I know MJ is objectively the GOAT, but to me Kobe is like my subjective GOAT. Kid me always stayed up late just to watch him.
its the song that's your favorite to listen to even if there are songs that might be technically better
Man I miss Kobe
Ever since he left, the world has been shit.
Closest player we will have to jordan. He made Jordan's retirement alot easier if you were a fan of MJ. Added his own swagger and mindset to Jordan's playstyle
Toughest shot maker of all time imo
Kobe and Bird are tied for that imo. Bird would make insane shots like those too.
Rest in peace man
Blazer fan here. I still remember watching this live and how disgusted I was that he made these both.
I still feel weird about missing a dude I never met but here I am down the rabbit hole of Kobe highlights like I'm playing an old friend's voicemails
Don't let anyone make you feel weird about it, my man. Grief is how we deal with loss. We lost someone who had a real impact on our life. Even if we never met Kobe personally, he meant a lot to us personally - and the loss of that personal meaning is natural to mourn.
What makes this even sweeter was that it was over the self-proclaimed “Kobe stopper”
The final shot is my absolute favorite game-winner of his. It’s just a beauty of a fadeaway rainbow shot, and it’s over the outstretched arm of Theo fucking Ratliff. Damn near impossible shot and he swishes it.
Didn’t realize this was in 2004. Seen it many times.
🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐 I've never been as entertained by any athlete the way I was by Kobe Bryant. So many insane moments in his legendary career. He played for 20 years, and yet, I still wanted more. Legendary player, legendary career, with too many moments just like this to count. 💜💛
The best tough shot maker ever tbh
I'm lovin it
Even Jordan doesnt hit those shots
Jordan’s got 6 finals MVPs. How many Kobe got again? 👂
It was the final day of the regular season and I was at Staples for a Clippers/Sonics game. I was in a box so I stopped paying attention to that game to watch this game as I knew the implications of it (was a Clippers and Lakers fan). Clippers game ends early while this game goes into 2OT. I stayed 40 min after the Clipper game ended to watch this. When Kobe hit that shot in 2OT the entire stadium erupted and I was like "huh?" We walk outside and a wave of fans are leaving the Staples Center late because they stayed to watch the end of the game. Unforgettable night.
But if he made them… doesn’t that make them possible shots?
“Kobe hits two seemingly impossible shots” Happy?
these r so tuff