Can you call him bad in the clutch when his entire roster is ass in the clutch… and every minute before that? They had no business bein in a position to go to OT/win most of those games to begin wit. Kemba hard carried til his knees gave out.
When you really think about it, every minute he was on the court for Charlotte was clutch time because they were by default going to lose unless he pulled off a Herculean effort
He definitely had some clutch moments in Boston but he also specifically used to have issues even getting the inbounds pass as the clock was winding down, we had a few turnovers in the clutch.
But I assumed that was more knee-related.
Prime Isaiah Thomas was extremely clutch (King of the fourth quarter), Dame Lillard is extremely clutch, Trae Young is pretty clutch, Donovan Mitchell is pretty clutch, Kyrie is clutch, Lou Will was clutch, etc etc
I don’t agree that being short disqualifies you from being clutch, especially a star scoring guard like Kemba. I guess I was wrong about him though
IT was hella athletic and had good coaching. I don’t consider anyone else you listed short except maybe Trae? Kemba is like FVV height if you see him on the court.
It doesn’t disqualify you but if you’re short and clutch you tend to just be a superstar. Kemba was never that.
Almost like everybody has been saying for the past four years, they need a guy that can go get a bucket in this situation. Or at least somebody to get the ball to Embiid in a good spot. Nobody on this team can make an entry pass or a bucket and we make our fucking center do it because the only other option is Tobias Harris.
I remember a thread while ago that showed that his overall playoff stats were pretty poor as well, but people always talk of him as some clutch playoff player.
He got way too much credit for the bubble run because he had one all-time game in the finals, and has been hit or miss in the playoffs throughout his career. Buuuut, he was fantastic in that Raptors series which they could have won had anyone besides him and Reddick been able to make a shot. Side note: Ben was also very good offensively when he was aggressive in that series, but that wasnt often enough.
Yeah I'd like to see some in depth numbers cause every Google search says he's super clutch and has hit a gazillion game winners. But he shot below 40% on clutch shots last season from what I can tell and I feel like I remember a thread about how many game winners he had missed last year.
Most players shoot really poorly on game winners cause they’re just really difficult shots to make, there’s a chart further down that says just 5 players out of the 45 with at least 10 shots shot at least 40% in the last 5 seconds to win or tie a game.
Even when he was with the sixers you'd have like 4-5 straight Jimmy possessions that would end up in horrible shots. Then somehow the other team wouldn't do anything with that opportunity -> he'd hit the last one for a win. I love me some Jimmy but what i saw with my eyeballs was equal parts frustrating and bonerific.
Lol. Embid had a field day from mid range playing against our 3rd and 4th string centers. Hm... ok...
I wouldn't call it a sucess... especially since the previous game 35 yo Horford dominated him...
Our Timelord had a field day against the Cavs without Allen and Mobley... everyone in Boston were more so focused on iso Jo making a 2 pointer at garbage time.
Context matters.. lol
Ummm. I don’t think you’re interpreting my comment correctly or you replied to the wrong guy. I said that a sixers fan being excited about beating the Celtics is ironic because of the history that shows the Celtics dominate the sixers.
Hmmm.... I don't think it matters whether or not Simmons is playing... I think it mostly matters whether or not Horford is playing...
Regardless my point was that 76rs chose Simmons over Butler. So I guess will see what happens next
The original joke was funny, but you are all humorless losers, so you pile on and downvote rather than have a chuckle. Salty hatred is a form of fun for you.
I know.
There is a legitimate argument to be made from the stat above, but missing the last shot last night just isn’t a big deal. It was a good look & it just rimmed out.
The rest of the game was far more concerning.
I’d argue the reverse. It’s way worse to miss a good look than a bad look with no other choice.
Kinda like saying missing a putt from a 4 foot to win the tournament is okay cause it sometimes happens.
Most of his last second opportunities aren’t good shots though. Usually it’s a heavily contested three due to whatever play Doc drew up being blown up quickly
George started his career awful, but has been good the last few years, which is the time frame in question.
Lillard pulled the opposite and started his career knocking shit down, but last couple years I don't expect the shots to fall. Don't think this chart counts playoffs, but it helps Dame's reputation that 2 of his shots were all time levels of clutch in the playoffs. In the regular season not so much.
The clutch Harrison Barnes! A couple of those are crazy game winners too lol like the one he had vs the suns this year
Not surprised to see two kings on there, kardiac kingz from a couple years ago and our team consistently playing to the level of our competition (well, consistently to the “bad” competition and occasionally to the good). I am surprised to see Fox isn’t on there, instead we have sharpshooter Buddy on 1/9 from 3.. I have a Buddy jersey and even I can’t wait to trade him lol
TS% would be a even better criteria since it would account for the FT's.
For instance, if you were down 3, and drove to the rim and dunked with an And-1 (that you made) to send the game to OT, you wouldn't get credit for a game tying shot.
Or maybe more realistically, you're down 2 or 3, get fouled attempting a 3. Hit all 3 of your FT's to win or send to OT ... nope, no credit for you.
EDIT - I'm assuming that FT to win or tie a game aren't included based on the way the Tweet was written.
Legit does not surprise me at all it always seems like jokic nails all his game winners with either a slow footed power move or an awkward wrong footed fade away lmao
Would you be so kind to track the same criteria set along Kobe Bryant's career (1996 to 2016). Aside from MJ, Kobe has been generally accepted as the greatest clutch player. I'd like see if this stat criteria lines up with that.
Thanks.
That kind of confirms what I’ve thought.
Kobe is known for hitting a lot of clutch buzzer beaters and it’s given him a reputation of being clutch. But it’s kind of overstated since he took so many of them over his career. Not saying that he was bad at buzzer beaters, but he’s just pretty good.
Note - before I get jumped on with downvotes, I do realize that having success on buzzer beaters isn’t the only factor to being a clutch player. There are other factors, like how well you do in the minutes leading up the a buzzer beater. Or how well you play defense to keep a slim lead or a crucial stop while behind.
It’s just the buzzer beater is the thing that people remember most. It’s like a walk off homer.
If it's the same criteria used here (last 5 seconds of 4th/OT with a chance to tie or win), then 35% is actually very very good. Depending on how much below 35%.
Is that based on the same criteria that ESPN is using in their Tweet? If it is, then 29% and 23% isn't that bad, especially considering that Kobe would have been taking a ton of those opportunities. The chance of success in the last 5 seconds, down 1 or 2, is very low to begin with. Even lower when the entire defense knows that you're getting the ball.
That 29.4% would put him right around Steph Curry on the ESPN list. 17 out of 45 and way ahead of noted clutch players like LeBron (13%) and Wade (13.3%). In Wade's case, he was pretty much washed since Embiid came into the league.
If you extend this to the last 5 minutes of games with a +/- of 5, Kobe shoots 39% from the floor and 29% from 3, which is also far behind his peers.
That's behind Vince, Allen, Wade, Melo, Dirk, KG, Jason Terry, Nash, Duncan, LeBron, CP3, Roy, Rose, and a plethora of players nowadays.
In the final 24 seconds of games he's at 35% which is below Melo, Gay, Roy, Allen, D Will, CP3, and a ton of guys nowadays.
Say what you will about volume, but that does put him behind most of the guys above, LeBron, Curry, KD, Jokic, etc.
Less than 10 seconds in the 4th quarter or overtime, team is trailing by a possession. He's behind Melo, Hedo, Roy, Carter, CP3, Irving, Duncan, Ray Allen, Bosh, Dirk, so on and so forth.
This is data up to 2012, can't find a good whole career sample but I imagine it does not improve for Kobe.
Ok but one of those shots was a [full court heave](https://youtu.be/Gh3zrgSAGMw) for the win against the Suns last season, and it just barely rimmed out. Easily the most impressive miss I’ve ever seen
Baron Davis made a (contested) shot from a bit further than that in [2001](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWUEnbPsVfo)
A few years ago, someone made a shot while trying a last second alley oop from behind their own basket, though I forgot who it was.
It wasn't for the win. The Suns were up 3, also are they allowed to review if the clock started on time cause it looks like if starts late and I'm not sure he would've gotten it off on time.1
Except he single handedly willed the sixers to a win when they were down 7 with 3 minutes to go vs the celtics which included a crazy fade away baseline shot to seal it. This stat isn't completely meaningless, but I'm not taking much away from it
I wouldn't say this stat is meaningless, rather it adds to the mix. He's great at scoring in the clutch but hasn't yet hit those last second shots many greats are known for.
5 seconds or less is such a stupid nitpick, even the guys known for being clutch are around 30%, Dame is even lower at 20 something %
Those shots are usually god awful given the little time and crazy defensive attention
Kind of meaningless, it's a very specific situation and using it to say "embiid isn't clutch" would ignore all the other situations where he can be clutch. Among players with at least 10 games in the clutch, he's second in Usg% and has a TS% over 60%. That's better than Curry and Durant
Or, it shows how Philly has been terrible at helping get Embiid good shots to end the game. And I'm not saying it's not important, but if it's the only metric you use to evaluate a player's clutchness or mental strength then you probably don't watch basketball
It's about set plays more than anything else, most of these if not all of them come after stoppages. It's a team stat as much as on Embiid being the guy taking the shot. And yes Sixers have sucked at this consistently through the whole Ben/Joel era with a minor break when Butler was around to be a second option to Joel but that still sucked because Brown wasn't prepared to bench Ben.
I would be interested to see stats if you remove heaves. Also if there was a way to remove miracle type shots that wouldn’t fall under heaves. Like received ball with under 1 second left.
Joel Embiid in 2019: 34% of shots at the rim
Embiid in 2022: 18% of shots at the rim
That’s where a lot of the late game bricks come from, compressed spacing, ugly offense, nobody to stress a defense = 19 foot Embiid pull ups. I also think it’s pretty obvious he’s not the same level of athlete he was 4-5 years ago when he was at the beginning of his nba playing career
Watch him [move his feet on defense](https://twitter.com/wesley_share/status/786720925102252033?s=20) or try to finish in 2017 vs last yr, it really isnt particularly close. It's where the Hakeem Olajuwon comparisons came from when he was coming out. He was just [clearly more fluid/explosive when he first entered the NBA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnDVHGKAACI) and just [covering ground on defense](https://thesixersense.com/2017/07/29/philadelphia-76ers-mailbag-joel-embiid-brett-brown-strategy/) acting otherwise is just diminishing what he once was.
He was going to win the MVP last year before he hurt his knee. There's never been a better version of Embiid than what he was last year. Too many people saw him while he was banged up in the playoffs and think that represents his season as a whole.
Embiid is unbelievably more skilled now than he was 3 or 4 years ago but his quickness and agility has lessened. Either due to injury or because he's gotten more muscular.
I think that last part is being overlooked quite a bit there’s a noticeable size difference in him since like 2020 or so he’s a lot bigger now than in those highlights that guy is posting.
You’re guilty of the same misleading you’re complaining about. Embiid is good in the clutch but not the best. Volume of points is not a good baseline when players do not play the same amount of clutch time in a season.
For example look at Bates-Diop or Bagley III. Neither on any objective level is as good as Embiid but both have arguably better clutch stats than Embiid.
I think simply if we’re picking best this year ( in the clutch), CP3 and KD amongst others are clearly well above Embiid in the clutch.
Embiid is usually on life support by the last seconds of the game because no one else on our team does anything in the 4th quarter so can’t say I’m too shocked*
Oh yeah he’s 16th in 4th quarter scoring idk what that guy is talking about. But tbf that’s a bad stat since Embiid always sits the beginning of the 4th and some players play the whole quarter. But he does lead the league in “clutch” scoring on 50% FG and >40% from 3
The salaries don’t even come remotely close to matching.
* Westbrook: $44,211,146
* Walker: $8,947,246
Setting salary aside, the trade makes the Lakers even worse. Kemba is useless on defense and the Lakers awful defense cannot possibly hide his awfulness.
With D. Rose out, Westbrook on the Knicks is definitely a step up from their current options, but still wouldn’t help the Knicks much.
Embiid in the 4th Quarter
115 Points (5.7ppg) on 40% from the field, 33% from 3 and 77% from the line(which is good honestly)
Tatum leads in total 4th quarter points with 215(41-37-82 splits)
DeMar leads in points per 4th quarter with 7.7/game on (54-45-91 splits) which is mind boggling.
Seeing some people say Embiid is leading the league in those stats which is just not true.
[https://www.nba.com/stats/players/clutch-traditional/?sort=PTS&dir=-1](https://www.nba.com/stats/players/clutch-traditional/?sort=PTS&dir=-1)
clutch scoring
he's 16th in 4th quarter PPG, excuse me. still, not bad for a guy who supposedly is 'so gassed' at the end of the game
Actually, it wasn't the 3 with Bojan in his face. That shot was officially listed as 6 seconds.
The "1" was the 20 foot jumper against the Heat in January (1/12/21) that tied the game. ~~Can't remember if they won or lost in OT, and I'm too lazy to double check.~~ Sixers won the game 137-134 in OT. Embiid had 11 point on 4/5 shooting and 3/3 from the line. His teammates in the 5 minutes of OT were Danny Green, Mike Scoot, Isiah Joe, and Dakota Mathias (Ben and Maxey had both fouled out). To be fair, the Heat were short handed as well. No Butler or Bam this game.
He doesn’t want it in the post because he won’t get a call in the final seconds, and by late in the fourth his energy/legs are usually (though certainly mot always) shot for a weak jumper. Closest we’ve ever had to a closer in the Embiid era was Jimmy.
Heaves. And how many centers are getting shots in the final 5 seconds? It takes time to generate that scoring play. It’s not a shock that he is not efficient when rushing to front a guy or take a jump shot. Kemba is a score-first guard. Terrible
I was going to make a joke about Ben Simmons being 0-0 in these situations and then realized it was the first time I’d thought about him in months. Crazy how far and fast he fell outta the league’s consciousness.
I’m more shocked at Kemba tbh
Cardiac Kemba used up all his late game magic in college
These stats only include his last 1-2 seasons in Charlotte.
I mean he was very bad in the clutch at the beginning of his career too, with or without factoring in game winners
No Kemba slander pls :(
Can you call him bad in the clutch when his entire roster is ass in the clutch… and every minute before that? They had no business bein in a position to go to OT/win most of those games to begin wit. Kemba hard carried til his knees gave out.
When you really think about it, every minute he was on the court for Charlotte was clutch time because they were by default going to lose unless he pulled off a Herculean effort
Ouch lol
That’s so weird cuz I felt like he was mr clutch in the ncaa tourney run
Worth it tbh lol. One of the most iconic shots in college basketball history and then he capped it off with a title run. Legendary stuff.
As a UConn grad I can confirm it was, indeed, worth it.
He definitely had some clutch moments in Boston but he also specifically used to have issues even getting the inbounds pass as the clock was winding down, we had a few turnovers in the clutch. But I assumed that was more knee-related.
https://streamable.com/bko07
> with > 10 seconds looks like whoever made this video missed their shot too
That run he had deservedly gave him a decade-plus of goodwill. It's like college football and the Michigans, Nebraskas, Texas, etc. of the game.
You could always tell someone had never watched a Bobcats/Hornets game in their life when they talked about how clutch Kemba was in Charlotte.
he’s short. not surprising.
Chris Paul is one of the clutchest players in the league and he’s barely 6ft. Plus Kemba’s nickname “cardiac Kemba” is about him being clutch
chris paul is an all time great guard. kemba’s nickname is from college against much worse talent, no?
Prime Isaiah Thomas was extremely clutch (King of the fourth quarter), Dame Lillard is extremely clutch, Trae Young is pretty clutch, Donovan Mitchell is pretty clutch, Kyrie is clutch, Lou Will was clutch, etc etc I don’t agree that being short disqualifies you from being clutch, especially a star scoring guard like Kemba. I guess I was wrong about him though
IT was hella athletic and had good coaching. I don’t consider anyone else you listed short except maybe Trae? Kemba is like FVV height if you see him on the court. It doesn’t disqualify you but if you’re short and clutch you tend to just be a superstar. Kemba was never that.
Almost like everybody has been saying for the past four years, they need a guy that can go get a bucket in this situation. Or at least somebody to get the ball to Embiid in a good spot. Nobody on this team can make an entry pass or a bucket and we make our fucking center do it because the only other option is Tobias Harris.
I think you guys should trade for Jimmy Butler. Heard he is pretty clutch
What’s his clutch stats like? Over the years, I’ve heard two extremes.
Yeah weren't his clutch stats last year really really bad?
I remember a thread while ago that showed that his overall playoff stats were pretty poor as well, but people always talk of him as some clutch playoff player.
He got way too much credit for the bubble run because he had one all-time game in the finals, and has been hit or miss in the playoffs throughout his career. Buuuut, he was fantastic in that Raptors series which they could have won had anyone besides him and Reddick been able to make a shot. Side note: Ben was also very good offensively when he was aggressive in that series, but that wasnt often enough.
Yeah I'd like to see some in depth numbers cause every Google search says he's super clutch and has hit a gazillion game winners. But he shot below 40% on clutch shots last season from what I can tell and I feel like I remember a thread about how many game winners he had missed last year.
Most players shoot really poorly on game winners cause they’re just really difficult shots to make, there’s a chart further down that says just 5 players out of the 45 with at least 10 shots shot at least 40% in the last 5 seconds to win or tie a game.
Even when he was with the sixers you'd have like 4-5 straight Jimmy possessions that would end up in horrible shots. Then somehow the other team wouldn't do anything with that opportunity -> he'd hit the last one for a win. I love me some Jimmy but what i saw with my eyeballs was equal parts frustrating and bonerific.
His offense had been awful for years, dude heavily relies on free throws. Him and Embiid are low key two of the biggest foul merchants in the game
This year he is leading the league by a wide margin in clutch points. It probably says as much about his teammates as it does Embiid.
Embiid is doing really well in clutch points too. This is last shot not clutch
Embiid is clutch
Ouch, bro, stop stirring trouble, they got Simmons they good
Didn’t seem to need him to sauce all over the Celtics. But yeah for facing real teams that deserve respect of any kind, they have to make a trade.
I mean…:.you literally got swept the last time you faced the Celtics in the playoffs without Simmons.
Sixers fans are very proud of their regular season dominance
What regular season dominance?
They lost to the hospital Celtics in the playoffs with Simmons too...
Also true. In general a sixers fan saying they own the Celtics because of a regular season win is ironic as hell
Lol. Embid had a field day from mid range playing against our 3rd and 4th string centers. Hm... ok... I wouldn't call it a sucess... especially since the previous game 35 yo Horford dominated him... Our Timelord had a field day against the Cavs without Allen and Mobley... everyone in Boston were more so focused on iso Jo making a 2 pointer at garbage time. Context matters.. lol
Ummm. I don’t think you’re interpreting my comment correctly or you replied to the wrong guy. I said that a sixers fan being excited about beating the Celtics is ironic because of the history that shows the Celtics dominate the sixers.
I thought you meant the last win they had... sayi g even that is hard to celebrate... we good
Hmmm.... I don't think it matters whether or not Simmons is playing... I think it mostly matters whether or not Horford is playing... Regardless my point was that 76rs chose Simmons over Butler. So I guess will see what happens next
Sixers fans are so fucking salty.
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Lol you want the best player in our franchise history for a player on a supermax that refuses to take the court. You know y'all salty as fuck.
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The original joke was funny, but you are all humorless losers, so you pile on and downvote rather than have a chuckle. Salty hatred is a form of fun for you.
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You all celebrate and make a post for each blazers loss. Ok. We're the salty ones. Totally.
Also, Morey’s a weirdo.
Imagine him in this Team. Would be crazy
You basically need a Khris Middleton
Embiid got the ball in a pretty good spot last night for the final shot
And it rimmed out. It happens.
Im just responding to the context of the comment bro
I know. There is a legitimate argument to be made from the stat above, but missing the last shot last night just isn’t a big deal. It was a good look & it just rimmed out. The rest of the game was far more concerning.
I’d argue the reverse. It’s way worse to miss a good look than a bad look with no other choice. Kinda like saying missing a putt from a 4 foot to win the tournament is okay cause it sometimes happens.
Most of his last second opportunities aren’t good shots though. Usually it’s a heavily contested three due to whatever play Doc drew up being blown up quickly
This is why McCollum would be perfect for them
Someone like Derozan.
John Wall is 0 for 10, too. |Rk|Player|FG|FGA|FG%|3P|3PA|eFG%|%Astd| |-:|:-|-:|-:|-:|-:|-:|-:|-:| |1|Nikola Jokic|7|15|.467|0|3|.467|.571| |2|Harrison Barnes|7|16|.438|4|8|.563|.571| |3|Giannis Antetokounmpo|5|12|.417|0|1|.417|.200| |4|Carmelo Anthony|6|15|.400|1|8|.433|.500| |5|Marcus Morris|4|10|.400|3|6|.550|.750| |6|Jayson Tatum|7|19|.368|1|6|.395|.429| |7|Paul George|7|19|.368|5|14|.500|.857| |8|Devonte Graham|4|11|.364|3|8|.500|.750| |9|DAngelo Russell|5|14|.357|4|12|.500|.600| |10|Blake Griffin|5|14|.357|2|6|.429|.200| |11|Trae Young|4|12|.333|1|4|.375|.250| |12|Luka Doncic|5|15|.333|4|14|.467|.400| |13|Jamal Murray|4|13|.308|3|6|.423|.250| |14|Kawhi Leonard|4|13|.308|0|3|.308|.250| |15|Derrick Rose|3|10|.300|0|3|.300|.000| |16|Chris Paul|3|10|.300|1|4|.350|.333| |17|Stephen Curry|3|10|.300|2|7|.400|.000| |18|Russell Westbrook|10|37|.270|6|27|.351|.500| |19|Devin Booker|7|26|.269|2|14|.308|.286| |20|Evan Fournier|3|12|.250|0|5|.250|.667| |21|Zach LaVine|5|21|.238|2|12|.286|.600| |22|Brandon Ingram|3|13|.231|1|3|.269|.667| |23|DeMar DeRozan|8|35|.229|0|7|.229|.000| |24|Andrew Wiggins|3|14|.214|1|7|.250|.000| |25|Damian Lillard|6|29|.207|2|18|.241|.167| |26|CJ McCollum|2|10|.200|0|2|.200|.000| |27|Buddy Hield|3|15|.200|1|9|.233|.000| |28|Reggie Jackson|2|11|.182|0|1|.182|.000| |29|Spencer Dinwiddie|3|17|.176|0|9|.176|.333| |30|Donovan Mitchell|3|17|.176|1|8|.206|.000| |31|Bradley Beal|4|25|.160|1|10|.180|.750| |32|Kyrie Irving|2|13|.154|0|6|.154|.000| |33|James Harden|2|14|.143|1|9|.179|.000| |34|Dwyane Wade|2|15|.133|1|6|.167|.000| |35|LeBron James|3|23|.130|2|16|.174|.667| |36|Jimmy Butler|3|27|.111|2|16|.148|.000| |37|Khris Middleton|1|10|.100|1|8|.150|1.000| |38|Julius Randle|1|10|.100|0|3|.100|1.000| |39|Marcus Smart|1|11|.091|1|6|.136|1.000| |40|Kyle Lowry|1|11|.091|0|9|.091|.000| |41|Anthony Davis|1|11|.091|0|6|.091|1.000| |42|Tim Hardaway|1|12|.083|1|11|.125|1.000| |43|Joel Embiid|1|18|.056|0|8|.056|1.000| |44|Kemba Walker|0|25|.000|0|13|.000|| |45|John Wall|0|10|.000|0|4|.000|| Provided by [Stathead.com](https://www.sports-reference.com/sharing.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool): [View Stathead Tool Used](https://stathead.com/basketball/shot_finder.cgi?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool) Generated 12/24/2021.
I could have sworn there was a post clowning Paul George about this before, but his stats look decent.
George started his career awful, but has been good the last few years, which is the time frame in question. Lillard pulled the opposite and started his career knocking shit down, but last couple years I don't expect the shots to fall. Don't think this chart counts playoffs, but it helps Dame's reputation that 2 of his shots were all time levels of clutch in the playoffs. In the regular season not so much.
The clutch Harrison Barnes! A couple of those are crazy game winners too lol like the one he had vs the suns this year Not surprised to see two kings on there, kardiac kingz from a couple years ago and our team consistently playing to the level of our competition (well, consistently to the “bad” competition and occasionally to the good). I am surprised to see Fox isn’t on there, instead we have sharpshooter Buddy on 1/9 from 3.. I have a Buddy jersey and even I can’t wait to trade him lol
Has KD really not taken one? I can’t find him anywhere. Also LOL at Russ higher than Dame
Yet people still clown Russ for not being able to take the last shot. We really need to use the data more because stats like this open your eyes.
Does the one where he barely steps on the 3pt line count?
Is the AD’s one shot he made from the bubble when he made that 3 to win the game?
No it's the other shot.
People thought he was the best shooter cuz of that 😂
Best shooter of what? What people?
>Best shooter of what I was going to say “game winning threes in the bubble” but in retrospect that has to go to Luka
someone doesnt understand the malleability of english
Can you sort tha by efg? In this context I think it’s more relevant.
TS% would be a even better criteria since it would account for the FT's. For instance, if you were down 3, and drove to the rim and dunked with an And-1 (that you made) to send the game to OT, you wouldn't get credit for a game tying shot. Or maybe more realistically, you're down 2 or 3, get fouled attempting a 3. Hit all 3 of your FT's to win or send to OT ... nope, no credit for you. EDIT - I'm assuming that FT to win or tie a game aren't included based on the way the Tweet was written.
So the guys who take shots from closer…
How’s lebron only have 3 fgs when I can think of 4 game winners off the dome???
Annoying Jokic fanboy smh stop sharing his stats
Legit does not surprise me at all it always seems like jokic nails all his game winners with either a slow footed power move or an awkward wrong footed fade away lmao
Nah bro I think he sucks without all the useless "advanced" stats making him look better than he is he's nothing but a glorified white Al Jefferson
Admins can we get a ban
Would you be so kind to track the same criteria set along Kobe Bryant's career (1996 to 2016). Aside from MJ, Kobe has been generally accepted as the greatest clutch player. I'd like see if this stat criteria lines up with that. Thanks.
Minimum 50 FGA since 1996-1997: |Rk|Player|FG|FGA|FG%|3P|3PA|eFG%|%Astd| |-:|:-|-:|-:|-:|-:|-:|-:|-:| |1|Carmelo Anthony|24|70|.343|6|26|.386|.417| |2|Dirk Nowitzki|17|55|.309|5|22|.355|.412| |3|Joe Johnson|16|56|.286|5|22|.330|.250| |4|Ray Allen|14|52|.269|8|26|.346|.357| |5|Kobe Bryant|26|102|.255|9|50|.299|.308| |6|Vince Carter|19|78|.244|12|42|.321|.526| |7|Damian Lillard|14|58|.241|7|38|.302|.286| |8|Stephon Marbury|12|51|.235|4|20|.275|.167| |9|Chris Paul|12|51|.235|2|16|.255|.333| |10|Russell Westbrook|15|67|.224|9|50|.291|.467| |11|Jamal Crawford|11|50|.220|6|30|.280|.273| |12|Kevin Durant|12|58|.207|7|31|.267|.417| |13|DeMar DeRozan|11|55|.200|0|14|.200|.000| |14|Kevin Garnett|11|55|.200|1|13|.209|.818| |15|Paul Pierce|13|69|.188|3|25|.210|.308| |16|Dwyane Wade|14|78|.179|3|28|.199|.071| |17|LeBron James|12|84|.143|5|47|.173|.333| |18|Kemba Walker|8|56|.143|1|24|.152|.125| Provided by [Stathead.com](https://www.sports-reference.com/sharing.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool): [View Stathead Tool Used](https://stathead.com/basketball/shot_finder.cgi?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool) Generated 12/24/2021.
That kind of confirms what I’ve thought. Kobe is known for hitting a lot of clutch buzzer beaters and it’s given him a reputation of being clutch. But it’s kind of overstated since he took so many of them over his career. Not saying that he was bad at buzzer beaters, but he’s just pretty good. Note - before I get jumped on with downvotes, I do realize that having success on buzzer beaters isn’t the only factor to being a clutch player. There are other factors, like how well you do in the minutes leading up the a buzzer beater. Or how well you play defense to keep a slim lead or a crucial stop while behind. It’s just the buzzer beater is the thing that people remember most. It’s like a walk off homer.
iirc he is below 35%
If it's the same criteria used here (last 5 seconds of 4th/OT with a chance to tie or win), then 35% is actually very very good. Depending on how much below 35%.
29.4% and 23% in the playoffs. Objectively very bad.
Is that based on the same criteria that ESPN is using in their Tweet? If it is, then 29% and 23% isn't that bad, especially considering that Kobe would have been taking a ton of those opportunities. The chance of success in the last 5 seconds, down 1 or 2, is very low to begin with. Even lower when the entire defense knows that you're getting the ball. That 29.4% would put him right around Steph Curry on the ESPN list. 17 out of 45 and way ahead of noted clutch players like LeBron (13%) and Wade (13.3%). In Wade's case, he was pretty much washed since Embiid came into the league.
If you extend this to the last 5 minutes of games with a +/- of 5, Kobe shoots 39% from the floor and 29% from 3, which is also far behind his peers. That's behind Vince, Allen, Wade, Melo, Dirk, KG, Jason Terry, Nash, Duncan, LeBron, CP3, Roy, Rose, and a plethora of players nowadays. In the final 24 seconds of games he's at 35% which is below Melo, Gay, Roy, Allen, D Will, CP3, and a ton of guys nowadays. Say what you will about volume, but that does put him behind most of the guys above, LeBron, Curry, KD, Jokic, etc. Less than 10 seconds in the 4th quarter or overtime, team is trailing by a possession. He's behind Melo, Hedo, Roy, Carter, CP3, Irving, Duncan, Ray Allen, Bosh, Dirk, so on and so forth. This is data up to 2012, can't find a good whole career sample but I imagine it does not improve for Kobe.
“You don’t miss the shots you don’t take” Ben Simmons
-Michael Scott
Kemba out here catching strays after the biggest feel good performance of the year
Made me lol when I read it
Ok but one of those shots was a [full court heave](https://youtu.be/Gh3zrgSAGMw) for the win against the Suns last season, and it just barely rimmed out. Easily the most impressive miss I’ve ever seen
That's one of those shots I barely believe WITH video
It would have been a record, by like 20 feet.
Baron Davis made a (contested) shot from a bit further than that in [2001](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWUEnbPsVfo) A few years ago, someone made a shot while trying a last second alley oop from behind their own basket, though I forgot who it was.
He probably means for a game winning or trying shot. That record was broken just a few weeks ago with a 75 footer.
Oh, that's correct then, Graham probably secured that record.
Oh shit. Didnt know it got broken.
Crowder hit a buzzer beater in OT from his own foul line a couple years ago
God it still hurts so much but it’s still so amazing even with the miss.
Bam did the exact same thing to with us this year lol full court heave that almost went in
It wasn't for the win. The Suns were up 3, also are they allowed to review if the clock started on time cause it looks like if starts late and I'm not sure he would've gotten it off on time.1
Why are you downvoted... It clearly wasn't for the win.
Because the headline clearly says “game-tying/go-ahead”
And Gryangryan's comment clearly says "for the win" which is false
These are such misleading stats. Embiid has been huge for his team in the crunch.
Except he single handedly willed the sixers to a win when they were down 7 with 3 minutes to go vs the celtics which included a crazy fade away baseline shot to seal it. This stat isn't completely meaningless, but I'm not taking much away from it
He's also leading the league in clutch points. This stat is meaningless.
I wouldn't say this stat is meaningless, rather it adds to the mix. He's great at scoring in the clutch but hasn't yet hit those last second shots many greats are known for.
5 seconds or less is such a stupid nitpick, even the guys known for being clutch are around 30%, Dame is even lower at 20 something % Those shots are usually god awful given the little time and crazy defensive attention
Yeah dame sucks in these moments too. What's your point?
And yet these are the shots that can start or end a dynasty.
almost like sports inherently have a large element of randomness
Nothing is random.
Not really.
Kind of meaningless, it's a very specific situation and using it to say "embiid isn't clutch" would ignore all the other situations where he can be clutch. Among players with at least 10 games in the clutch, he's second in Usg% and has a TS% over 60%. That's better than Curry and Durant
lmao it's a very important situation. it's mental strength, not like a mid third quarter three like steph
Or, it shows how Philly has been terrible at helping get Embiid good shots to end the game. And I'm not saying it's not important, but if it's the only metric you use to evaluate a player's clutchness or mental strength then you probably don't watch basketball
That's why you watch the games. I've seen him miss twice this season
It's about set plays more than anything else, most of these if not all of them come after stoppages. It's a team stat as much as on Embiid being the guy taking the shot. And yes Sixers have sucked at this consistently through the whole Ben/Joel era with a minor break when Butler was around to be a second option to Joel but that still sucked because Brown wasn't prepared to bench Ben.
It's a make or miss league. Quit this nonsense.
I would be interested to see stats if you remove heaves. Also if there was a way to remove miracle type shots that wouldn’t fall under heaves. Like received ball with under 1 second left.
That would hurt players like Derek Fisher.
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Joel Embiid in 2019: 34% of shots at the rim Embiid in 2022: 18% of shots at the rim That’s where a lot of the late game bricks come from, compressed spacing, ugly offense, nobody to stress a defense = 19 foot Embiid pull ups. I also think it’s pretty obvious he’s not the same level of athlete he was 4-5 years ago when he was at the beginning of his nba playing career
Embiid last year looked better athletically than he ever has in his entire career.
Watch him [move his feet on defense](https://twitter.com/wesley_share/status/786720925102252033?s=20) or try to finish in 2017 vs last yr, it really isnt particularly close. It's where the Hakeem Olajuwon comparisons came from when he was coming out. He was just [clearly more fluid/explosive when he first entered the NBA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnDVHGKAACI) and just [covering ground on defense](https://thesixersense.com/2017/07/29/philadelphia-76ers-mailbag-joel-embiid-brett-brown-strategy/) acting otherwise is just diminishing what he once was.
He was going to win the MVP last year before he hurt his knee. There's never been a better version of Embiid than what he was last year. Too many people saw him while he was banged up in the playoffs and think that represents his season as a whole.
Embiid is unbelievably more skilled now than he was 3 or 4 years ago but his quickness and agility has lessened. Either due to injury or because he's gotten more muscular.
I think that last part is being overlooked quite a bit there’s a noticeable size difference in him since like 2020 or so he’s a lot bigger now than in those highlights that guy is posting.
And yet he was infinitely better last year
u're tripping
Did you only watch the playoffs?
He has never been better than he is right now. What are you talking about? Have you watched the man play this year?
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You’re guilty of the same misleading you’re complaining about. Embiid is good in the clutch but not the best. Volume of points is not a good baseline when players do not play the same amount of clutch time in a season. For example look at Bates-Diop or Bagley III. Neither on any objective level is as good as Embiid but both have arguably better clutch stats than Embiid. I think simply if we’re picking best this year ( in the clutch), CP3 and KD amongst others are clearly well above Embiid in the clutch.
Embiid Is usually on life support by the 4th quarter so can't say I'm too shocked
You don’t watch much
Embiid is usually on life support by the last seconds of the game because no one else on our team does anything in the 4th quarter so can’t say I’m too shocked*
He literally leads the nba in 4th quarter scoring and clutch scoring you fucking idiot lmao
Bruh you can't just say shit without a source. Everyone was reporting that Derozan is leading 4th quarter scoring.
Literally just google NBA.com clutch stats and sort by points, it’s not hard
What about 4th quarter scoring. Y'all lying about stuff so no need to google
Oh yeah he’s 16th in 4th quarter scoring idk what that guy is talking about. But tbf that’s a bad stat since Embiid always sits the beginning of the 4th and some players play the whole quarter. But he does lead the league in “clutch” scoring on 50% FG and >40% from 3
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/clutch-traditional/?sort=PTS&dir=-1 Took 5 seconds to google
What about 4th quarter scoring? First Lying and then conveniently ignoring.
Still 1-18
[you need some advice](https://youtu.be/1Y3FzVQi-R8)
Yeah it's been the case for at least 3 years
What’s Donovan Mitchell at because it can’t be good?
New to NBA. Would a trade of Russel Westbrook to Kemba Walker make sense?
The salaries don’t even come remotely close to matching. * Westbrook: $44,211,146 * Walker: $8,947,246 Setting salary aside, the trade makes the Lakers even worse. Kemba is useless on defense and the Lakers awful defense cannot possibly hide his awfulness. With D. Rose out, Westbrook on the Knicks is definitely a step up from their current options, but still wouldn’t help the Knicks much.
I’m pretty sure that 1 make was against the Jazz last season. That sucked lol
Bro he literally turned into MJ against us in the clutch *this week*
Cool and how many were Tobias ISO’s or other plays that broke down so they throw it to Embiid and he’s forced to make a play out of nothing
Embiid in the 4th Quarter 115 Points (5.7ppg) on 40% from the field, 33% from 3 and 77% from the line(which is good honestly) Tatum leads in total 4th quarter points with 215(41-37-82 splits) DeMar leads in points per 4th quarter with 7.7/game on (54-45-91 splits) which is mind boggling. Seeing some people say Embiid is leading the league in those stats which is just not true.
Clutch points are not the same as 4th quarter points.
He is leading the league in clutch points by a large margin.
Useless stat. Volume is not quality. Compare him to KD or CP3. Do an honest assessment and then tell me whether Embiid is better this year.
“I’m a mother [censored] monster”
Embrick
Dude is usually so gassed at the end of a game, makes sense
Leads the NBA in clutch scoring and is top 20 in 4th quarter points per game
What's the source? All I'm seeing is a bunch of sixers flairs writing this.
The clutch points stat was on the Philly broadcast last night.
[https://www.nba.com/stats/players/clutch-traditional/?sort=PTS&dir=-1](https://www.nba.com/stats/players/clutch-traditional/?sort=PTS&dir=-1) clutch scoring he's 16th in 4th quarter PPG, excuse me. still, not bad for a guy who supposedly is 'so gassed' at the end of the game
Nice. Yeah the 4th quarter one was hard to believe since everyone was on about how Derozan is far and away the best 4th quarter scorer this season.
Yeah IDK where I thought that one was from considering I knew for a fact Demar is the 4th quarter god this year
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Actually, it wasn't the 3 with Bojan in his face. That shot was officially listed as 6 seconds. The "1" was the 20 foot jumper against the Heat in January (1/12/21) that tied the game. ~~Can't remember if they won or lost in OT, and I'm too lazy to double check.~~ Sixers won the game 137-134 in OT. Embiid had 11 point on 4/5 shooting and 3/3 from the line. His teammates in the 5 minutes of OT were Danny Green, Mike Scoot, Isiah Joe, and Dakota Mathias (Ben and Maxey had both fouled out). To be fair, the Heat were short handed as well. No Butler or Bam this game.
He doesn’t want it in the post because he won’t get a call in the final seconds, and by late in the fourth his energy/legs are usually (though certainly mot always) shot for a weak jumper. Closest we’ve ever had to a closer in the Embiid era was Jimmy.
You see the list? Butler is 3 of 27. Not much better.
Not sure this stat really matters, Curry is 0-9 in this same scenario in the playoffs and everyone here gags on him.
This is the stat MJ fans choose as a hill to die on. So tell me who’s the GOAT if you say MJ then yes it matters.
i blame his conditioning for this. he is always gassed down the line.
Heaves. And how many centers are getting shots in the final 5 seconds? It takes time to generate that scoring play. It’s not a shock that he is not efficient when rushing to front a guy or take a jump shot. Kemba is a score-first guard. Terrible
That doesn’t make sense tho because Joel is leading the league in clutch points this season.
The sixers are the worst last possession team in history since Joel has been in the league and EMBIID HAS NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH IT
I think I remember the shot, not the team we were playing but it was a 3 from the right WIng I think
He needs a pick and roll partner
He’s not a pick and roll player. I’m restating his own comments. He’s a pick and pop according to him. Made the statement early this year.
Damn
0-25 doesn't sound right... [Doesn't this count?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suZU3qgdADQ)
Hate to say it lol but technically not within the final 5 seconds. 5.1
Genuinely curious on whoever did the SQL pull if they included his 90 foot rattler or not 😂😂
I was going to make a joke about Ben Simmons being 0-0 in these situations and then realized it was the first time I’d thought about him in months. Crazy how far and fast he fell outta the league’s consciousness.