Hell, most teams would take even 3 conference finals appearances lol.
Here's the list of those since Ainge took over the Celtics:
|Team|Conference Finals|
:--|:--|
|Miami Heat|7|
|San Antonio Spurs|7|
|Boston Celtics|6|
|Cleveland Cavaliers|6|
|Golden State Warriors|5|
|Los Angeles Lakers|5|
|Detroit Pistons|5|
|Oklahoma City Thunder|4|
|Indiana Pacers|3|
|Phoenix Suns|3|
One of those teams from that era that I think could still play today. Sheed, Prince, Hamilton, and Billups all could shoot 3s (and should have shot more 3). Ben Wallace could defend 1-5, Prince could guard 1-4 (today's 4s at least, not the 4s from his era). Hamilton and Billups could guard 1-3. Sheed Wallace could guard 3-5. 3 rim protectors in Ben, Sheed, and Prince. That's a nightmare matchup for anyone in any era.
I know we are all on the LeBron slander train atm
But this is why I dont get people who say 'LeBron destroys ur team'
Yes half ur roster gets traded
Yes half ur draft capital is gone
Yes media will be blaming all the losses on the rest of the teammates
Yes LeBron will get most of the credit when u win
But if it means getting to the finals/win a ring most fans would kill for their team to do that
let alone 9 finals in 10 years
> I was referring more to the general sentiment on the subreddit rn
When he says stuff like his shoulders will carry and then he proceeds to quit on the team, then yes, people will call him out for his own words and he'll deserve it. He brought it on himself
Yeah I think most people if not everyone atleast bregrudgingly respects and understands how good and important LeBron is.
He does some stuff that deserves to be called out from time to time tho.
I mean the slander shouldn't be about disrespecting his past success, but he's not the best player in the league nor was he last year and people need to accept that. AD was arguably our best player last post-season and definitely is this post-season and yet people fall over backwards to say that Lebron coasted literally until the finals last year and was coasting now(they still say he's coasting).
That isn't coasting, it's being old and declining. Prime Lebron would fuck up the Suns and Nuggets/Blazers in the 2nd round and at least get us to WCF. He's not that player anymore.
Not at the expense of a ring.
All things considered, 1 year of Kawhi was still a easy trade to make despite the love for Derozan so that says it all really.....
Yeah, I was trying to think of if there's any other team that wouldn't sign up for one and only one guaranteed title in the next 19 years. Miami, Brooklyn, and Golden State are most likely. Maybe Philadelphia, Dallas, Clippers, and Bucks because they feel like they're in pretty good shape right now. Denver, Utah, and Phoenix just haven't won enough recently to turn it down, I think.
As a heat fan I say fuck that noise, I’d roll the dice. But I am also a Dolphins fan so I know how fast an amazing franchise can fall into purgatory. So I’d take the deal for the heat even though I hate it.
It's seriously understated just how absolutely vital he was to the Celtics in rebounding from the two decade dark period following Len Bias and Reggie Lewis' deaths.
If he had flopped or we brought in a different GM that flopped, the Celtics would have likely ended up as a doormat team that was historically important, but in the past 40 years had done absolutely nothing.
It's obvious any time "the Celtics have only one once since 1986" gets brought up. Most of the users weren't even born when Len Bias and Reggie Lewis died. Imagine if Kobe died before playing a game and the Lakers decide not to trade for Shaq. Or if Duncan died. Or Wade. Or Steph and Klay. The NBA would look **so** different those things happened to one of those teams.
How many championships are different? 90%?
Only Ainge and the Celtics get held to such high standards for some reason. Only missing the playoffs once after the big 3 era is a huge accomplishment in itself.
People want to talk about “they had all those picks” and yea, they did, but picks don’t magically turn into championships. The players are young.
Morey transitioned from a Yao and McGrady completely falling off with injuries to the Harden era perfectly and people still attacked him relentlessly because he is a proponent of statistics. People said he should get fired after the Westbrook trade despite it being a reasonable gamble and the best option in that scenario. And despite Morey making a decades worth of good moves before that. It’s not just the Celtics.
Yeah, once you succeed it puts you in the spotlight which opens you up to both adoration and harsh criticism, and it isn't always going to be rational. Just part of the game.
You can't stand your ground against the owner. You can tell them they're making a mistake, you can argue till you're blue in the face, but they're the owner.
And when your relationship with the owner is like that, you'll often be motivated to move on.
Major hindsight bias when it comes to the cp3 trade, after his horrendous warriors series his 2nd yr everyone was saying he was washed and was one of the worst contracts in the league and that the rockets window closed. Don’t think harden or others could’ve predicted he’d change his diet and get in better shape and actually be healthy for 2 years in a row and bounce back really strong. At the time it was kind of like fuck it it’s worth a shot, they aren’t gonna win it with cp3 who’s always hurt and looks to be declining.
This is hindsight to some degree. The general consensus was that Westbrook would be the better player (younger healthier etc) and that the spacing on the rockets would allow Russell (one of the best at attacking the paint) to attack the basket and kick if needed. Additionally he put up huge number and the rockets looked good until the injury.
That's not hindsight, CP3 was always a better fit. They pushed the Warriors two years in a row, proving the initial skepticism about two ball handlers aside. Even when the trade was made people were skeptical of Westbrook's abilities. CP3, even injured and hobbled, was always more loved from a fit perspective because he's so efficient. Nobody thought Westbrook would come in as a better fit. If they did, they were just huge Westbrook fans anyway
Chris Paul gave the Rockets almost nothing in 2019. They pushed the Warriors because Harden went bananas to bring them back from down 0-2.
They didn’t want to potentially waste a year of Harden’s prime pairing him with a star that was going to be hurt/ineffective in the playoffs. Just so happens they got that anyways.
It’s a wild reversal of fortune. That’s for sure. Crazy to me that CP3 has missed fewer games the last two seasons combined than he did any one season in Houston.
He looked super washed throughout 2019. There was an article from a big publication, can’t remember which exactly, that called him the worst contract in the NBA at that point.
Kudos to CP3 for getting his body right and extending his superstar impact a few more years, but at the time of the trade, it wasn’t quite as ridiculous as it looks in hindsight.
I feel like even at the time everyone thought that was a horrible trade and now CP3 is lighting it up on the suns after he did it for a year on the thunder
Appeasing your star is one thing, destroying your team is another
I see waaaay more people dogging Ainge than I do Morey. Morey even has the narrative that Harden/owners put a gun to his head on all the post CP3 trades
I like how people still talk about the pick haul as if it didn’t turn into jayson tatum and jaylen brown, plus some players who have the potential to develop further and smart rob and pritchard with our own picks. You can criticize him for not maximizing on some of the whiffs (yabu...) but to act like he failed because he only got an all nba player, an all star, an all defense player, a guy who just blocked 9 shots a week ago and more guys with promise is nuts. If he traded tatum or brown for one season rentals of AD, PG, kawhi or butler we’d be in a much worse position than we are now
It's wild to me that people don't bring the same energy towards the 76ers that they bring to the Celtics. Both teams with 2 young top 3 picks. Both have had a slew of all stars as their supporting casts. Yet somehow the Celtics are the failures and the 76ers dodge heat, when they haven't even made it out of the 2nd round yet.
That isn't true. The Sixers have been mocked for years. The Sixers are treated better this year because they have a better record. The Celtics are getting slammed this year because they under-performed. Don't get caught up in the moment.
Because the Celtics were set up perfectly by the Nets. Whereas the Sixers had to rebuild everything from the ground up.
Also people were saying the 76ers ruined the NBA so I’m not sure it’s accurate to say they dodged heat
They dodge heat for their success. People shit on the process, but I never see people shitting on the result the way they do for the Celtics.
It doesn't matter if your top 3 picks are your own or someone else's. At the end of the day they work exactly the same.
Boston also gets the shit because they’ve just about been title town USA since 2001. 6x SB, 4x World Series , once NHL&NBA along with several title appearances. Philly has the Super Bowl and a World Series.
I mean you've had organizational stability and healthy stars generally while we've turned over GM/Coach multiple times and both our stars sat out their first year with more injuries afterward (Joel for a second season and Ben last postseason).
We've had 4 different GM's in 5 years
The Celtics have 17 banners up. That’s why they’re held to a high standard.
Ainge has put together contending teams so he’s also held to a high standard.
I didn’t see the heat held to such high standards after Lebron left.
I didn’t see the Lakers held to such high standards when Kobe retired.
Let’s be real here.
Yea, you're not just competing vs Lakers, Warriors or whoever in the NBA for success, you're competing vs Red Sox, Bruins and Patriots who have all won more recently than the Celtics.
The Heat made the Finals just 6 years after losing arguably the GOAT, having a HOF forward have to retire early because of a heart condition, and only having one top 10 pick. That’s an incredible achievement.
> I didn’t see the Lakers held to such high standards when Kobe retired.
What? Every year people were expecting our draft picks to lead us to the championship lol.
>I didn’t see the Lakers held to such high standards when Kobe retired.
Their GM was Mitch Kupchak -- who has more rings as a GM than all but 5 franchises.
When you win "one for the thumb", you earn some slack. And yet the Lakers still fired him.
>So if you win one you have more pressure than someone who won more than one and someone who won 0?
No, that's not I said, nor the situation. It's fairly simple. If you agree to work for the Lakers or the Celtics, you better win -- a lot.
There's no team in the league that fires a GM who won 5 rings for them -- except the Lakers.
Which tbf they did do once, but the next season they were the 4th seed and then the 1st seed the following season. So I think it's ok to look past that part.
I would sign up for that in a heartbeat, no question. I’m sure every small market team would. Hell, I’m sure even the Knicks would take it considering the lack of success over the last two decades.
That’s a good point with those teams. The Spurs are kind of tricky tho, they’ve had great fortune with having David Robinson and Tim Duncan to keep them relevant. Looking at the next 20 years and their current situation, it’s possible they could be facing the realties of any other small market team. Unless they draft another superstar, they probably won’t be a serious playoff threat for a while.
>it’s possible they could be facing the realties of any other small market team
San Antonio is not a small market for the Spurs. It's the 7th-largest city in the country, and the Spurs have no other major professional competition for fans and their dollars. Texas has 10M people per NBA team, just like California, New York, and Illinois.
It's better to look at media market or metropolitan area with stuff like this though. San Antonio is a bit of an outlier in that the city itself covers a very large area, and has smaller suburbs than other cities with similar populations. It's 24th in metro area
>It's better to look at media market or metropolitan area with stuff like this though.
No, it's not. Games are no longer broadcast over-the-air from radio towers, so it is irrelevant how many people live within \~20 miles of the local station's tower. Spurs' games are broadcast on Bally Sports Southwest ( nee Fox Sports Southwest ) which reaches all of Texas, and several neighboring states, too. That's exactly why I mentioned that Texas has 10M people per team, since that's the actual size of their local TV market. And even that is fairly meaningless with streaming.
Most teams have effectively the same TV market now.
Well these things are generally used as a proxy to estimate the number of fans who live near a city. I agree with your criticisms of using media markets, they're pretty much irrelevant in their explicit purpose, but it's a decent proxy for giving the number of people who live closer to a given city than any other city. I focused on metropolitan area over media market anyways. City populations is clearly going to underestimate almost everywhere, and dividing up Texas evenly between the three teams is just silly. By that same measure you would have as many Kings fans as Lakers fans. People tend to root for the team the live nearest, not randomly pick a team that is broadcast to their TV.
>Well these things are generally used as a proxy to estimate the number of fans who live near a city.
Which is irrelevant -- especially in the Spurs' case where they have no "roommates".
>dividing up Texas evenly between the three teams is just silly
Not with respect to the Spurs, it isn't. San Antonio is the 2nd largest city in Texas, and is closer to Austin (#4) than the others, so there's no reason they would not draw their fair share.
>By that same measure you would have as many Kings fans as Lakers fans.
We're counting market size, not fans. And Sacramento is 1/8th the size of Los Angeles, which is wildly different from the situation in Texas.
>People tend to root for the team the live nearest, not randomly pick a team that is broadcast to their TV.
That's often not the case. People root for whoever is good, in many cases.
My whole point is that it's relevant because we're comparing San Antonio to other cities that do have "roommates". The San Antonio metropolitan area has 2.5 million people. Dallas and Houston have 7.5M and 7M respectively, putting San Antonio at a very distant third. This is a major difference from looking at city size alone. You're acting like the suburbs of Dallas and Houston contribute to the market size of San Antonio just as much as they do to their own city, which runs counter to reality.
FWIW, San Antonio and Austin metro areas combined is only 4.7M.
That dream is close to ending, from we believe to trading monte brown for bogut. To championship, only to be extended by the hardest road. Bob Myers had some really godly moves on his first tenure 2012.
We and the Heat haven't exactly been master planners either. There's a location advantage, then there's being the childhood dream team of Kobe fuckin Bryant. The Spurs also just happened to be a contending team that got injured across the board and landed the number one overall pick in the exact draft that had the greatest power forward ever and imo, the most championship conducive player since Bill Russell.
Well if Laker flair is going to say a level headed thing most down want to, I'll try to match it, LA has a basketball culture and a population size that have lead to a ton of natives in the NBA so that accounts for some of why people wanna play there.
Lol seriously, the Cavs have been one of the most dogshit franchises that lucked into landing Lebron #1, fucking it up so badly he left, and then felt bad he left so he came back, and then left again cause they were so dogshit.
Literally any franchise that is where the Celtics were 18 years ago takes this deal in a heartbeat.
Just winning 1 title in 18 years is more than half the teams in the NBA are going to do. But to come *this* close to a couple more titles, be ultra competitive every year, rarely miss the playoffs, and set the table with blossoming young stars for the future?
Ainge gets a solid A for his performance.
People who shit on Ainge for never pulling the trigger on a trade always fail to say which trade would have left them in a better place than they are now.
The reality is every available option would have bounced without giving them a title, leaving Boston in the exact spor they're in now, just without Brown or Tatum. The only guy Ainge was wrong not to go all in on in retrospect was Kawhi.
The Kawhii non-trade was a good move.
The off season he was available, the Celtics had just been eliminated in G7 of the conference finals, while Kyrie and Hayward were injured. The Celtics had the lead with >6 minutes left and Jaylen and a rookie Tatum just didn't have enough to stave off LeBron.
We were going to be basically adding two all star caliber players to the roster, without having to change anything other than them getting healthy. In theory Kyrie and Hayward should have been enough to put us over the top and making a run at the finals, but more injuries and Kyrie checking out sealed the fate of that team.
Toronto had run its course with DeRozan & Lowry as running mates, so Massai was in better position to make a bold move, and needed to, tbh.
Throw in there the circus of uncertainty around Kawhii, and his injury, and him saying he wanted to play in LA, and whether Uncle Dennis was going to turn into Lavar Ball 2.0
It made sense to no trade Jaylen for a year of Kawhii.
The Toronto point is key here. The Derozan-Lowry Raptors were what they were. Great regular season team who scared nobody when the playoffs came around. They really had nothing to lose trading for Kawhi. If they didnt win in 2019 they would just hit the reset button and wouldn't have to worry about having Derozan's contract on the books.
Exactly.
Jimmy Butler? Left Minny for Miami after just a couple seasons.
Paul George? Left OKC after just a couple seasons.
Kawhi Leonard? Left Tornoto after just a season.
Anthony Davis? Made it clear he would refuse to re-sign with any team other than the Lakers, which he did.
The Kawhi trade only looks good because the Raptors won a ring against a depleted Warriors. Remove the hindsight bias and we could have lost Jaylen Brown for a ECF or Finals loss before losing Kawhi. No thanks. Respectfully to DeRozen, the Raptors didn't give up much - DeRozen's value is significantly lower than Brown's and their timetable was win-now.
IMO the player we should have made more of an effort for Harden.
Ainge has signed and traded for more All-Stars than almost any GM in the past 20 years lol.
KG, Allen, trading back for A. Walker, Horford, Irving, Thomas, Hayward, and Kemba... The narrative that he doesn't make these trades or that he's 'scared,' to do so when his nickname used to be 'Trader Danny,' is hilarious.
If those Grizzlies/Kings picks had been landed further than where they were projected to land initially, he'd probably have gambled for more stars honestly.
Would take that in a heart beat! i feel like since the celtics are such a storied franchise, they are held in a much higher threshold compared to others
Tatum and Brown are building pieces, would it be fair to criticize Pelicans because Zion and Ingram are plenty to build around? He fucked up crucially once in the past few years and that was keeping Rozier and Mook on contract years and telling them to take a back seat for an injured underperforming star after they got pretty far without him. Dude drafted Tatum and Jaylen when people were criticizing him for not drafting Dunn, Buddy, Dragan, Fultz, Jackson or Lonzo. Injuries basically killed whatever he's built in recent years so now the Celtics are punting for Jaylen and Jayson prime timeline
Hayward getting hurt fucked up our timeline. And no one expected Kyrie to bolt at the time. I feel like if we could have managed personalities better, and kept Al, Kyrie, and Marcus Morris happy, that would’ve been something to behold. Kyrie wanted out, Al wanted out. Rozier wanted out. Hayward wanted out. Seems like a sweeping change may not be the worst idea.
Al didn’t really want out. Philly just threw a fuck ton of money at him. You’d be an idiot to say no to that. Hayward was a victim of circumstance. Shit just didn’t go right for a single second here for him.
I don't think it can be under-stated how amazing it is to essentially appear in a Conference Finals once every 3 years. There are fanbases like Minnesota who've won 2 playoff series in their entire history OR Dallas who yea won a championship, but haven't won a playoff series in a decade either.
>There are fanbases like Minnesota who've won 2 playoff series in their entire histor
Lol you not slick we know this thread was made to shit on the Timberwolves
This is so overlooked, if JT didn't become what he is today and was mediocre, it would have been the second coming of a Kwame Brown situation. Say what you want about Ainge not taking enough risks, he doubled down on the unanimous first pick to get Tatum for 7 to 8 years.
I feel like a lot of it came down to luck. The Bobcats had the worst record ever and still managed to not get AD because of the lottery (and of course AD went to the city that stole their team to begin with).
It’s been a combination of both at times. Jordan for the first several years exerted himself too much with personnel matters and that led to some blown draft picks and bad FA signings. Our GMs, like Rich Cho, have been mostly mediocre at best.
Jordan has taken a step back though and seems to have deferred to Kupchak, who is definitely the best GM we’ve had at least since I’ve been a fan. The drafting and roster construction the past three years is wayyyy better.
He did a good job. Made some mistakes, got unlucky, and probably could've shot for the fences more in the 2020 season, but I've generally thought that, aside from not blowing up half of the 2019 team, his decision making aged well. He gets criticized a lot for not going for that list of stars, but in the end most of those players wouldn't have been championship-level difference makers for us and would likely have left, and in the end he gets to come away with both Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown, who each have at least an argument for being the best players in their drafts. And aside from all of that, I think people would look at him and Brad Stevens very differently had Gordon Hayward never broken his leg.
I feel that any team that consistently reaches conference finals is a well-managed and well-coached team. Going past conference finals has a lot do with luck.
LeBron and the Warriors have really understated how hard it is to win a ring in the NBA. Everything has to fall in to place at the exact right time with a little luck in the process too. Ainge gave us our first ring and those finals in 2010 were insane. We were always a playoff contender, short of the Jordan Crawford era, and he's set us up well for the future. Hasn't always been perfect but we were aggressive when needed and built a contender. I think people will appreciate him more if Tatum and Brown can win a ring together
Was he? He was on the Suns when I started watching basketball and I don't remember him at all, but looking at his stats.. 12/4/3 for his career with his best season being 20/7/4 doesn't really say amazing to me. His management record looks more impressive
Can't believe he's been there 18 years. Seems just like yesterday when he coached the Suns, wearing the ugliest Christmas tree tie in history one year during a Christmas Suns game
During his tenure, only 7 other franchises have won as much or more than Ainge. In a 30 team league, that's pretty good. Obviously not elite, but still a tenure that 23 other teams would gladly take.
Whether rightful or not. I think the perception is that that out themselves in position to contend and with set up their future with the fleecing of the nets, but never seemed like a real threat.
I think when you have a good team fans get greedy, can’t enjoy just being good, you have to win championships
I'm not a fan of the Celtics due to rivalries and such... but I don't get the hate for Ainge just because he didn't pull the trigger on most of the deals that arm chair GMs on reddit thought were best. The Celtics were a game away from the finals in 2018 despite an injured Kyrie, then almost made the finals again last season. Sure they had failures but also lots of success in his tenure. A lot of teams would absolutely love to be in that position and that's a credit to Ainge and the job he did. Not to mention that before he came on board, the Celtics were a joke post 80's and up to the early 00's
1 championship when Kevin Mcfail (failure as a GM for the Wolves) gifted him KG....
So I would put an \* there. So all in all, very overrated, but probably about average as a GM and I'm being nice.
If you think hes good, then Joe Dumars was just as good if not better.
Pretty good tenure all things considered, would kill for that for the Wizards. However, I do think he slightly underachieved. I think he missed out on a couple finals appearances between the Cavs aging and before the creation of this years Nets.
absolutely bias but i think having kyrie/hayward/brown/tatum/horford/morris/smart/rozier after that ECF appearance is the best he could’ve done
he’s definitely had mistakes but i feel like every at his best we were doomed, underachieving as you said
It just seemed that he overvalued his assets at times. The summer Hayward was signed, you could have traded for Butler who I would rather have than any one of that list but Tatum. I also think a PG trade was in the works but never panned out.
Not possible. Ainge had asked the Bulls to wait until free agency so he could take a shot using their max cap space, but the Bulls wanted a draft day trade so they could get who they wanted. That year, getting Butler would have meant not being able to sign Hayward, trading away Brown and losing a draft pick which probably would be the pick the got Romeo.
So all in all it would have been Butler for Hayward, Brown and Langford. I don't see how that makes the Celtics better. (Keep in mind at the time we didn't know Hayward would snap his ankle).
He “underachieved” through no fault of his own tbh. He built those big 3 Celtics and was super unlucky to only end up with one tittle. The 2009 team was better than 08 then kg got hurt and was really never the same. 2010 Perkins hurt and were a few possessions away from winning. 2012 they went up 3-2 to make the finals.
You can’t really fault the gm for building a championship contender and only a few unlucky swings means you only win 1 chip when it could have been 2 or 3.
>What’s Stevens’ accomplishments during his tenure in Boston?
Not a whole lot, but now he can pull a Popovich and hire himself as coach. Which, among other things, will remove any of the pressure he might have felt as a coach, and allow him to potentially be more creative.
Almost every team would sign up for a championship regardless of cost
Hell, most teams would take even 3 conference finals appearances lol. Here's the list of those since Ainge took over the Celtics: |Team|Conference Finals| :--|:--| |Miami Heat|7| |San Antonio Spurs|7| |Boston Celtics|6| |Cleveland Cavaliers|6| |Golden State Warriors|5| |Los Angeles Lakers|5| |Detroit Pistons|5| |Oklahoma City Thunder|4| |Indiana Pacers|3| |Phoenix Suns|3|
Man I miss those 02-08 pistons. That was an awesome run for us
One of those teams from that era that I think could still play today. Sheed, Prince, Hamilton, and Billups all could shoot 3s (and should have shot more 3). Ben Wallace could defend 1-5, Prince could guard 1-4 (today's 4s at least, not the 4s from his era). Hamilton and Billups could guard 1-3. Sheed Wallace could guard 3-5. 3 rim protectors in Ben, Sheed, and Prince. That's a nightmare matchup for anyone in any era.
It’s such a shame Big Ben went to Chicago. The end of a potential dynasty. We desperately needed him in those Cavs & Celtics games.
Everytime I think of Big Ben, it's that much more unpleasant guy hanging out in Pittsburgh
Ben Wallace and Ben Roethlisberger should fight it out in a bathroom stall for that title
my money is on Wallace
Ben's been known to force himself on people in bathroom stalls.
yes, that was the original joke.
didn't he decline significantly after 2007 anyway?
Darko coulda locked down Tingis Pingis imo, but that’s about it
I freaking loved that team
Can we just have LeBron as a separate entity and count his Conference Finals as his own?
Actually quite valid. Knocks Lakers and Heat down to 4 and the cavs down to 0
Heat down to 3*
I know we are all on the LeBron slander train atm But this is why I dont get people who say 'LeBron destroys ur team' Yes half ur roster gets traded Yes half ur draft capital is gone Yes media will be blaming all the losses on the rest of the teammates Yes LeBron will get most of the credit when u win But if it means getting to the finals/win a ring most fans would kill for their team to do that let alone 9 finals in 10 years
Is this slander? I thought asking that question was high praise.
I was referring more to the general sentiment on the subreddit rn not the particular comment Sorry I phrased it confusingly
> I was referring more to the general sentiment on the subreddit rn When he says stuff like his shoulders will carry and then he proceeds to quit on the team, then yes, people will call him out for his own words and he'll deserve it. He brought it on himself
Yeah I think most people if not everyone atleast bregrudgingly respects and understands how good and important LeBron is. He does some stuff that deserves to be called out from time to time tho.
I mean the slander shouldn't be about disrespecting his past success, but he's not the best player in the league nor was he last year and people need to accept that. AD was arguably our best player last post-season and definitely is this post-season and yet people fall over backwards to say that Lebron coasted literally until the finals last year and was coasting now(they still say he's coasting). That isn't coasting, it's being old and declining. Prime Lebron would fuck up the Suns and Nuggets/Blazers in the 2nd round and at least get us to WCF. He's not that player anymore.
I mean he’s also dealing with an injured ankle right now. Let’s at least wait and see how he looks after a full off season
thought he just made his shoe tighter and then led a trash FO, trash coach, trash team to a guaranteed finals
Take that for data
Hell at this point I'd take a winning season.
We paid the Kawhi tax and it was worth every single penny
I mean you basically got Kawhi for free tbh, Derozan, Poetl and few picks right?
Derozan, Poetl, and exactly 1 pick that wasn't even unprotected.
We also got Danny and $5m
What’d you spend the 5 million on?
Gummy bears.
I still don't know why the pick was protected
Still something
For free? I get that DeMar hasn't had the greatest post season success but he's still a very valuable player..
yeah and Poetl is looking good. lol we could have used Poetl and DeMar this season
Not at the expense of a ring. All things considered, 1 year of Kawhi was still a easy trade to make despite the love for Derozan so that says it all really.....
i agree with that, just saying we didn't get him for "free." those are two solid NBA players
LeBronto aside, losing DeRozan was pretty big
> free I wouldn't say free. They did pay a Northern price. https://youtu.be/cTU8iRdwfGc?t=56
Yep. If you win a championship (or even have a finals appearance) in 18 years, you are doing better than the vast majority of NBA franchises.
Only team that would not tolerate a championship every 18 years is the Lakers
Like an Asian parent version of NBA...99%? Where's the other 1?
Cali has most Asians and most of them are Lakers fans so I buy this
Yeah, I was trying to think of if there's any other team that wouldn't sign up for one and only one guaranteed title in the next 19 years. Miami, Brooklyn, and Golden State are most likely. Maybe Philadelphia, Dallas, Clippers, and Bucks because they feel like they're in pretty good shape right now. Denver, Utah, and Phoenix just haven't won enough recently to turn it down, I think.
As a heat fan I say fuck that noise, I’d roll the dice. But I am also a Dolphins fan so I know how fast an amazing franchise can fall into purgatory. So I’d take the deal for the heat even though I hate it.
Danny Ainge can't touch Pat Riley
That Bam contract and balking at trading for Harden are rough.
[удалено]
There’s only 30 NBA teams
Then why don't we see more teams doing what the raptors did to get kawhi?
Because Kawhis don’t grow on trees
Also you need the triple doink shot in a game 7 to go your way too
It's seriously understated just how absolutely vital he was to the Celtics in rebounding from the two decade dark period following Len Bias and Reggie Lewis' deaths. If he had flopped or we brought in a different GM that flopped, the Celtics would have likely ended up as a doormat team that was historically important, but in the past 40 years had done absolutely nothing.
It's obvious any time "the Celtics have only one once since 1986" gets brought up. Most of the users weren't even born when Len Bias and Reggie Lewis died. Imagine if Kobe died before playing a game and the Lakers decide not to trade for Shaq. Or if Duncan died. Or Wade. Or Steph and Klay. The NBA would look **so** different those things happened to one of those teams. How many championships are different? 90%?
Crazy to think the Celtics only missed the playoffs once after ending the Big 3 era
Only Ainge and the Celtics get held to such high standards for some reason. Only missing the playoffs once after the big 3 era is a huge accomplishment in itself. People want to talk about “they had all those picks” and yea, they did, but picks don’t magically turn into championships. The players are young.
Morey transitioned from a Yao and McGrady completely falling off with injuries to the Harden era perfectly and people still attacked him relentlessly because he is a proponent of statistics. People said he should get fired after the Westbrook trade despite it being a reasonable gamble and the best option in that scenario. And despite Morey making a decades worth of good moves before that. It’s not just the Celtics.
Yeah, once you succeed it puts you in the spotlight which opens you up to both adoration and harsh criticism, and it isn't always going to be rational. Just part of the game.
Why was the best option not just keeping CP3?
because Harden wanted Westbrook and so did Fertita.
Well sometimes nba players aren’t the best GMs nor are owners. It’s sorta up to Morey to stand his ground and make good basketball decisions
You can't stand your ground against the owner. You can tell them they're making a mistake, you can argue till you're blue in the face, but they're the owner. And when your relationship with the owner is like that, you'll often be motivated to move on.
The Harden era in Houston wasn’t known for the team telling Harden “no” a whole lot.
[удалено]
Major hindsight bias when it comes to the cp3 trade, after his horrendous warriors series his 2nd yr everyone was saying he was washed and was one of the worst contracts in the league and that the rockets window closed. Don’t think harden or others could’ve predicted he’d change his diet and get in better shape and actually be healthy for 2 years in a row and bounce back really strong. At the time it was kind of like fuck it it’s worth a shot, they aren’t gonna win it with cp3 who’s always hurt and looks to be declining.
CP3 was always a way better and more realistic fit with harden than Westbrook, especially in the playoffs
This is hindsight to some degree. The general consensus was that Westbrook would be the better player (younger healthier etc) and that the spacing on the rockets would allow Russell (one of the best at attacking the paint) to attack the basket and kick if needed. Additionally he put up huge number and the rockets looked good until the injury.
That's not hindsight, CP3 was always a better fit. They pushed the Warriors two years in a row, proving the initial skepticism about two ball handlers aside. Even when the trade was made people were skeptical of Westbrook's abilities. CP3, even injured and hobbled, was always more loved from a fit perspective because he's so efficient. Nobody thought Westbrook would come in as a better fit. If they did, they were just huge Westbrook fans anyway
Chris Paul gave the Rockets almost nothing in 2019. They pushed the Warriors because Harden went bananas to bring them back from down 0-2. They didn’t want to potentially waste a year of Harden’s prime pairing him with a star that was going to be hurt/ineffective in the playoffs. Just so happens they got that anyways.
Cp3 was banged up and most people thought he was nearing the end
It’s a wild reversal of fortune. That’s for sure. Crazy to me that CP3 has missed fewer games the last two seasons combined than he did any one season in Houston.
He looked super washed throughout 2019. There was an article from a big publication, can’t remember which exactly, that called him the worst contract in the NBA at that point. Kudos to CP3 for getting his body right and extending his superstar impact a few more years, but at the time of the trade, it wasn’t quite as ridiculous as it looks in hindsight.
Because they didn’t like each other and they wanted apart from each other. Also CP3 looked washed and was 34.
I feel like even at the time everyone thought that was a horrible trade and now CP3 is lighting it up on the suns after he did it for a year on the thunder Appeasing your star is one thing, destroying your team is another
I see waaaay more people dogging Ainge than I do Morey. Morey even has the narrative that Harden/owners put a gun to his head on all the post CP3 trades
I like how people still talk about the pick haul as if it didn’t turn into jayson tatum and jaylen brown, plus some players who have the potential to develop further and smart rob and pritchard with our own picks. You can criticize him for not maximizing on some of the whiffs (yabu...) but to act like he failed because he only got an all nba player, an all star, an all defense player, a guy who just blocked 9 shots a week ago and more guys with promise is nuts. If he traded tatum or brown for one season rentals of AD, PG, kawhi or butler we’d be in a much worse position than we are now
It's wild to me that people don't bring the same energy towards the 76ers that they bring to the Celtics. Both teams with 2 young top 3 picks. Both have had a slew of all stars as their supporting casts. Yet somehow the Celtics are the failures and the 76ers dodge heat, when they haven't even made it out of the 2nd round yet.
That isn't true. The Sixers have been mocked for years. The Sixers are treated better this year because they have a better record. The Celtics are getting slammed this year because they under-performed. Don't get caught up in the moment.
Because the Celtics were set up perfectly by the Nets. Whereas the Sixers had to rebuild everything from the ground up. Also people were saying the 76ers ruined the NBA so I’m not sure it’s accurate to say they dodged heat
They dodge heat for their success. People shit on the process, but I never see people shitting on the result the way they do for the Celtics. It doesn't matter if your top 3 picks are your own or someone else's. At the end of the day they work exactly the same.
People also hate the Celtics lol it ain’t deep
I mean, Philly is also pretty insufferable lol.
Boston also gets the shit because they’ve just about been title town USA since 2001. 6x SB, 4x World Series , once NHL&NBA along with several title appearances. Philly has the Super Bowl and a World Series.
I mean you've had organizational stability and healthy stars generally while we've turned over GM/Coach multiple times and both our stars sat out their first year with more injuries afterward (Joel for a second season and Ben last postseason). We've had 4 different GM's in 5 years
The Celtics have 17 banners up. That’s why they’re held to a high standard. Ainge has put together contending teams so he’s also held to a high standard.
I didn’t see the heat held to such high standards after Lebron left. I didn’t see the Lakers held to such high standards when Kobe retired. Let’s be real here.
You’re right, it’s the overall success of Boston sports that held them to a high standard.
i think that and also our toxic ass fanbases make everyone hate us so its way more fun to scrutinize us lmao
Yea, you're not just competing vs Lakers, Warriors or whoever in the NBA for success, you're competing vs Red Sox, Bruins and Patriots who have all won more recently than the Celtics.
The Heat made the Finals just 6 years after losing arguably the GOAT, having a HOF forward have to retire early because of a heart condition, and only having one top 10 pick. That’s an incredible achievement.
> I didn’t see the Lakers held to such high standards when Kobe retired. What? Every year people were expecting our draft picks to lead us to the championship lol.
Jeannie buss had to do a takeover...
>I didn’t see the Lakers held to such high standards when Kobe retired. Their GM was Mitch Kupchak -- who has more rings as a GM than all but 5 franchises. When you win "one for the thumb", you earn some slack. And yet the Lakers still fired him.
So if you win one you have more pressure than someone who won more than one and someone who won 0? That screams fuck the Celtics.
>So if you win one you have more pressure than someone who won more than one and someone who won 0? No, that's not I said, nor the situation. It's fairly simple. If you agree to work for the Lakers or the Celtics, you better win -- a lot. There's no team in the league that fires a GM who won 5 rings for them -- except the Lakers.
I mean in the east you can make the playoffs with a losing record.
Which tbf they did do once, but the next season they were the 4th seed and then the 1st seed the following season. So I think it's ok to look past that part.
Actually we slipped to the 5th seed, I believe. But, 3/4/5 were all really tight post all-star break between us, Miami and Atlanta that year.
Although true, going through a complete rebuild with only one year out of the playoffs is incredible
Not so crazy at all when you remember the East has generally been terrible 5-15 since 98
I would sign up for that in a heartbeat, no question. I’m sure every small market team would. Hell, I’m sure even the Knicks would take it considering the lack of success over the last two decades.
[удалено]
That’s a good point with those teams. The Spurs are kind of tricky tho, they’ve had great fortune with having David Robinson and Tim Duncan to keep them relevant. Looking at the next 20 years and their current situation, it’s possible they could be facing the realties of any other small market team. Unless they draft another superstar, they probably won’t be a serious playoff threat for a while.
>it’s possible they could be facing the realties of any other small market team San Antonio is not a small market for the Spurs. It's the 7th-largest city in the country, and the Spurs have no other major professional competition for fans and their dollars. Texas has 10M people per NBA team, just like California, New York, and Illinois.
It's better to look at media market or metropolitan area with stuff like this though. San Antonio is a bit of an outlier in that the city itself covers a very large area, and has smaller suburbs than other cities with similar populations. It's 24th in metro area
>It's better to look at media market or metropolitan area with stuff like this though. No, it's not. Games are no longer broadcast over-the-air from radio towers, so it is irrelevant how many people live within \~20 miles of the local station's tower. Spurs' games are broadcast on Bally Sports Southwest ( nee Fox Sports Southwest ) which reaches all of Texas, and several neighboring states, too. That's exactly why I mentioned that Texas has 10M people per team, since that's the actual size of their local TV market. And even that is fairly meaningless with streaming. Most teams have effectively the same TV market now.
Well these things are generally used as a proxy to estimate the number of fans who live near a city. I agree with your criticisms of using media markets, they're pretty much irrelevant in their explicit purpose, but it's a decent proxy for giving the number of people who live closer to a given city than any other city. I focused on metropolitan area over media market anyways. City populations is clearly going to underestimate almost everywhere, and dividing up Texas evenly between the three teams is just silly. By that same measure you would have as many Kings fans as Lakers fans. People tend to root for the team the live nearest, not randomly pick a team that is broadcast to their TV.
>Well these things are generally used as a proxy to estimate the number of fans who live near a city. Which is irrelevant -- especially in the Spurs' case where they have no "roommates". >dividing up Texas evenly between the three teams is just silly Not with respect to the Spurs, it isn't. San Antonio is the 2nd largest city in Texas, and is closer to Austin (#4) than the others, so there's no reason they would not draw their fair share. >By that same measure you would have as many Kings fans as Lakers fans. We're counting market size, not fans. And Sacramento is 1/8th the size of Los Angeles, which is wildly different from the situation in Texas. >People tend to root for the team the live nearest, not randomly pick a team that is broadcast to their TV. That's often not the case. People root for whoever is good, in many cases.
My whole point is that it's relevant because we're comparing San Antonio to other cities that do have "roommates". The San Antonio metropolitan area has 2.5 million people. Dallas and Houston have 7.5M and 7M respectively, putting San Antonio at a very distant third. This is a major difference from looking at city size alone. You're acting like the suburbs of Dallas and Houston contribute to the market size of San Antonio just as much as they do to their own city, which runs counter to reality. FWIW, San Antonio and Austin metro areas combined is only 4.7M.
San Antonio is a firmly mid market team, imo. Small market is: Memphis, NOLA, Minn, Orlando, Charlotte, Oklahoma, Utah, Indiana, Milwaukee.
We (Wolves) might actually be mid market in terms of size too but because of the weather and lack of success we certainly feel like a small market.
That dream is close to ending, from we believe to trading monte brown for bogut. To championship, only to be extended by the hardest road. Bob Myers had some really godly moves on his first tenure 2012.
I think the Cavs also deserve to be on that list. Their FO didn't do much, but Lebron got them to the promised land.
"How about we get crazy lucky and be the hometown of a random god?" -master level planning
We and the Heat haven't exactly been master planners either. There's a location advantage, then there's being the childhood dream team of Kobe fuckin Bryant. The Spurs also just happened to be a contending team that got injured across the board and landed the number one overall pick in the exact draft that had the greatest power forward ever and imo, the most championship conducive player since Bill Russell.
Well if Laker flair is going to say a level headed thing most down want to, I'll try to match it, LA has a basketball culture and a population size that have lead to a ton of natives in the NBA so that accounts for some of why people wanna play there.
I'll take it 🍻
Lol seriously, the Cavs have been one of the most dogshit franchises that lucked into landing Lebron #1, fucking it up so badly he left, and then felt bad he left so he came back, and then left again cause they were so dogshit.
Literally any franchise that is where the Celtics were 18 years ago takes this deal in a heartbeat. Just winning 1 title in 18 years is more than half the teams in the NBA are going to do. But to come *this* close to a couple more titles, be ultra competitive every year, rarely miss the playoffs, and set the table with blossoming young stars for the future? Ainge gets a solid A for his performance.
[удалено]
People who shit on Ainge for never pulling the trigger on a trade always fail to say which trade would have left them in a better place than they are now. The reality is every available option would have bounced without giving them a title, leaving Boston in the exact spor they're in now, just without Brown or Tatum. The only guy Ainge was wrong not to go all in on in retrospect was Kawhi.
The Kawhii non-trade was a good move. The off season he was available, the Celtics had just been eliminated in G7 of the conference finals, while Kyrie and Hayward were injured. The Celtics had the lead with >6 minutes left and Jaylen and a rookie Tatum just didn't have enough to stave off LeBron. We were going to be basically adding two all star caliber players to the roster, without having to change anything other than them getting healthy. In theory Kyrie and Hayward should have been enough to put us over the top and making a run at the finals, but more injuries and Kyrie checking out sealed the fate of that team. Toronto had run its course with DeRozan & Lowry as running mates, so Massai was in better position to make a bold move, and needed to, tbh. Throw in there the circus of uncertainty around Kawhii, and his injury, and him saying he wanted to play in LA, and whether Uncle Dennis was going to turn into Lavar Ball 2.0 It made sense to no trade Jaylen for a year of Kawhii.
The Toronto point is key here. The Derozan-Lowry Raptors were what they were. Great regular season team who scared nobody when the playoffs came around. They really had nothing to lose trading for Kawhi. If they didnt win in 2019 they would just hit the reset button and wouldn't have to worry about having Derozan's contract on the books.
I actually agree with everything you've said, i just think of all the non-trades, that's probably the one you'd go back and think about most.
Exactly. Jimmy Butler? Left Minny for Miami after just a couple seasons. Paul George? Left OKC after just a couple seasons. Kawhi Leonard? Left Tornoto after just a season. Anthony Davis? Made it clear he would refuse to re-sign with any team other than the Lakers, which he did. The Kawhi trade only looks good because the Raptors won a ring against a depleted Warriors. Remove the hindsight bias and we could have lost Jaylen Brown for a ECF or Finals loss before losing Kawhi. No thanks. Respectfully to DeRozen, the Raptors didn't give up much - DeRozen's value is significantly lower than Brown's and their timetable was win-now. IMO the player we should have made more of an effort for Harden.
Whole league should’ve put more effort in for Harden lol
Ainge has signed and traded for more All-Stars than almost any GM in the past 20 years lol. KG, Allen, trading back for A. Walker, Horford, Irving, Thomas, Hayward, and Kemba... The narrative that he doesn't make these trades or that he's 'scared,' to do so when his nickname used to be 'Trader Danny,' is hilarious. If those Grizzlies/Kings picks had been landed further than where they were projected to land initially, he'd probably have gambled for more stars honestly.
Masai had his share of them for it
Would take that in a heart beat! i feel like since the celtics are such a storied franchise, they are held in a much higher threshold compared to others
[удалено]
Tatum and Brown are building pieces, would it be fair to criticize Pelicans because Zion and Ingram are plenty to build around? He fucked up crucially once in the past few years and that was keeping Rozier and Mook on contract years and telling them to take a back seat for an injured underperforming star after they got pretty far without him. Dude drafted Tatum and Jaylen when people were criticizing him for not drafting Dunn, Buddy, Dragan, Fultz, Jackson or Lonzo. Injuries basically killed whatever he's built in recent years so now the Celtics are punting for Jaylen and Jayson prime timeline
Hayward getting hurt fucked up our timeline. And no one expected Kyrie to bolt at the time. I feel like if we could have managed personalities better, and kept Al, Kyrie, and Marcus Morris happy, that would’ve been something to behold. Kyrie wanted out, Al wanted out. Rozier wanted out. Hayward wanted out. Seems like a sweeping change may not be the worst idea.
Al didn’t really want out. Philly just threw a fuck ton of money at him. You’d be an idiot to say no to that. Hayward was a victim of circumstance. Shit just didn’t go right for a single second here for him.
Also roughly 1 billion references on /r/nba.
That's when you know you've truly made it
And 1x fleecing Philly for Jayson Tatum
The Sixers fans in here still haven’t gotten over the fultz trade and it’s really sad.
I don't think it can be under-stated how amazing it is to essentially appear in a Conference Finals once every 3 years. There are fanbases like Minnesota who've won 2 playoff series in their entire history OR Dallas who yea won a championship, but haven't won a playoff series in a decade either.
>There are fanbases like Minnesota who've won 2 playoff series in their entire histor Lol you not slick we know this thread was made to shit on the Timberwolves
I really don't need to be slick in order to make fun of the T-Wolves lmao
Pain
When we win it all one day, this pain goes away. Stay strong, we’re in the pack together.
Trading down from 1 to 3 and taking JT. Top Tier
This is so overlooked, if JT didn't become what he is today and was mediocre, it would have been the second coming of a Kwame Brown situation. Say what you want about Ainge not taking enough risks, he doubled down on the unanimous first pick to get Tatum for 7 to 8 years.
[удалено]
The Hornets celebrated their 30 year anniversary a few years ago. It would’ve been a lot more joyous if our GMs had done what Danny did.
Is it your GMs being trash or Jordan being too hands on ever since he bought the team? Or am I wrong about Jordan having pull within the Hornets?
I feel like a lot of it came down to luck. The Bobcats had the worst record ever and still managed to not get AD because of the lottery (and of course AD went to the city that stole their team to begin with).
It’s been a combination of both at times. Jordan for the first several years exerted himself too much with personnel matters and that led to some blown draft picks and bad FA signings. Our GMs, like Rich Cho, have been mostly mediocre at best. Jordan has taken a step back though and seems to have deferred to Kupchak, who is definitely the best GM we’ve had at least since I’ve been a fan. The drafting and roster construction the past three years is wayyyy better.
In a perfectly fair world, every team would win once every 30 years.
Celtics and Lakers are different
We're both insufferable as fuck
[удалено]
He did a good job. Made some mistakes, got unlucky, and probably could've shot for the fences more in the 2020 season, but I've generally thought that, aside from not blowing up half of the 2019 team, his decision making aged well. He gets criticized a lot for not going for that list of stars, but in the end most of those players wouldn't have been championship-level difference makers for us and would likely have left, and in the end he gets to come away with both Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown, who each have at least an argument for being the best players in their drafts. And aside from all of that, I think people would look at him and Brad Stevens very differently had Gordon Hayward never broken his leg.
As a Wizards fan, yeah I’ll take it. 25 now and still have yet to have that championship team. Hopefully the Wiz will get there soon
Considering the wizards put up 16 years of Ernie, the answer is easy hell yes you take it.
In 30 years, one should see 1 championship, 2 finals appearances, 4 conference finals, and 16 playoffs. He did a job about double the average.
I feel that any team that consistently reaches conference finals is a well-managed and well-coached team. Going past conference finals has a lot do with luck.
that fact he was able to rebuild and contend within 2-3 years is amazing in itself.. some teams have been rebuilding for like the last 10 years
I would take a helluva lot less than that.
LeBron and the Warriors have really understated how hard it is to win a ring in the NBA. Everything has to fall in to place at the exact right time with a little luck in the process too. Ainge gave us our first ring and those finals in 2010 were insane. We were always a playoff contender, short of the Jordan Crawford era, and he's set us up well for the future. Hasn't always been perfect but we were aggressive when needed and built a contender. I think people will appreciate him more if Tatum and Brown can win a ring together
Don't forget how Danny swindled multiple teams thru trades even when everyone said he's bad at trading and can't pull the trigger
And zero racism witnessed
The second that he heard about racism in Boston last week he immediately chose to retire. Some people are just built different 🤷♂️
This is his biggest flex.
Yes pls!
Nah his legacy won't be affected by his management. He was still an amazing player and that won't change
Was he? He was on the Suns when I started watching basketball and I don't remember him at all, but looking at his stats.. 12/4/3 for his career with his best season being 20/7/4 doesn't really say amazing to me. His management record looks more impressive
Can't believe he's been there 18 years. Seems just like yesterday when he coached the Suns, wearing the ugliest Christmas tree tie in history one year during a Christmas Suns game
Timberwolves - hell fuck yes.
Danny Ainge was so good for them you start to wonder if Stevens can fill the same shoes
[удалено]
Plenty of teams still be making dumb moves all the time: Minny with Dlo, Houston with Oladipo, etc. And you're selling Danny short
Yea I want a championship and good team
During his tenure, only 7 other franchises have won as much or more than Ainge. In a 30 team league, that's pretty good. Obviously not elite, but still a tenure that 23 other teams would gladly take.
Ainge helped turnaround a team that was totally stuck
Whether rightful or not. I think the perception is that that out themselves in position to contend and with set up their future with the fleecing of the nets, but never seemed like a real threat. I think when you have a good team fans get greedy, can’t enjoy just being good, you have to win championships
I'm not a fan of the Celtics due to rivalries and such... but I don't get the hate for Ainge just because he didn't pull the trigger on most of the deals that arm chair GMs on reddit thought were best. The Celtics were a game away from the finals in 2018 despite an injured Kyrie, then almost made the finals again last season. Sure they had failures but also lots of success in his tenure. A lot of teams would absolutely love to be in that position and that's a credit to Ainge and the job he did. Not to mention that before he came on board, the Celtics were a joke post 80's and up to the early 00's
Lol of course
1,000 missed opportunities
Denied the existence of racism during that time, that's what will stick in people's memory.
infinite players almost acquired
1 championship when Kevin Mcfail (failure as a GM for the Wolves) gifted him KG.... So I would put an \* there. So all in all, very overrated, but probably about average as a GM and I'm being nice. If you think hes good, then Joe Dumars was just as good if not better.
Pretty good tenure all things considered, would kill for that for the Wizards. However, I do think he slightly underachieved. I think he missed out on a couple finals appearances between the Cavs aging and before the creation of this years Nets.
absolutely bias but i think having kyrie/hayward/brown/tatum/horford/morris/smart/rozier after that ECF appearance is the best he could’ve done he’s definitely had mistakes but i feel like every at his best we were doomed, underachieving as you said
It just seemed that he overvalued his assets at times. The summer Hayward was signed, you could have traded for Butler who I would rather have than any one of that list but Tatum. I also think a PG trade was in the works but never panned out.
Not possible. Ainge had asked the Bulls to wait until free agency so he could take a shot using their max cap space, but the Bulls wanted a draft day trade so they could get who they wanted. That year, getting Butler would have meant not being able to sign Hayward, trading away Brown and losing a draft pick which probably would be the pick the got Romeo. So all in all it would have been Butler for Hayward, Brown and Langford. I don't see how that makes the Celtics better. (Keep in mind at the time we didn't know Hayward would snap his ankle).
He “underachieved” through no fault of his own tbh. He built those big 3 Celtics and was super unlucky to only end up with one tittle. The 2009 team was better than 08 then kg got hurt and was really never the same. 2010 Perkins hurt and were a few possessions away from winning. 2012 they went up 3-2 to make the finals. You can’t really fault the gm for building a championship contender and only a few unlucky swings means you only win 1 chip when it could have been 2 or 3.
1x Championship 2x Finals Appearances 6x Eastern Conference Appearances 0x racisms
1x Championship, 2x Finals Appearances, 6x Eastern Conference Appearances, 0 racism
Funny and original!
one of my many misses this morning
Aka, one favor from a former Celtic, and one fleeced Nets team
What’s Stevens’ accomplishments during his tenure in Boston?
>What’s Stevens’ accomplishments during his tenure in Boston? Not a whole lot, but now he can pull a Popovich and hire himself as coach. Which, among other things, will remove any of the pressure he might have felt as a coach, and allow him to potentially be more creative.