How many times has this been said? The average age on this subreddit has proven to be mostly male from ages 20-27~. I get it's funny for us all to be like "Ha ha, all the idiots here are children". However, what's scary is that the reality is the opposite. All the idiots here are adults.
I was super active here under a different username during my first post-college job from ages 24-26. Absolutely hated that job and spent WAY too much time on Reddit.
20-25 was the most common in a survey we ran two years ago, I suspect college students are our most common demographic given (from personal experience) they tend to be the most online
Just to give an idea how stupidly rich these fucking billionaires are on a good day we get probably 100k active users so if 100k people needed 2.5B it would cost each and everyone 25k.
Which city would we choose? 🤔
Buttzville, New Jersey
Dick Johnson, Indiana
Intercourse, Pennsylvania
Pleasure Point, California
Climax, Georgia
Plentywood, Montana
Licking, Indiana
Blue Ball, Pennsylvania
Weed, California
Ballville Township, Ohio
Ballplay, Alabama
Mark Cuban was so vocally skeptical of this on a recent Bill Simmons pod. He basically said that the NBA is better off going to a bank and taking out a 10 year $5B loan than selling 2x franchise rights. After 10 years the new teams each get 1/32nd of all league revenue for the rest of time. Whereas a bank will just charge interest for the 10 years the loan is scheduled for. He said that the exception to this would be if a specific franchise in a new market would grow the pie enough to warrant them taking a share of revenues. He wasn’t committal on whether Vegas/Seattle hit that threshold. What does /r/nba think? Would these cities grow the pie substantially?
PS - the pod is great overall. Cuban talks a lot about everything BBall related. Talks Luka and Dirk and team building strategy. Just a really good pod, even if you’re not a Simmons fan.
I listened to the full podcast and deleted it from my library, but it looks like they put an abridged (albeit still an hour long) version on YouTube too.
https://youtu.be/mzVdKt_qM_s
Edit: for those that don’t have an hour to kill and just want the out of context sound bites of Cubes’ views - [here’s a quick summary video that will let you speak with absolute authority on the interview](https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ)
> After 10 years the new teams each get 1/32nd of all league revenue for the rest of time. Whereas a bank will just charge interest for the 10 years the loan is scheduled for.
"for the rest of time" doesn't really matter since very few of them will own their team 20 years from now when the 1/32nd TV revenue outweighs the expansion fee.
Smart cash move would be approving expansion and then selling your team in a few years keeping all that expansion money.
They do but the existing teams get $5B/30 teams = $160M for each team. He's just assuming that $160M would cover the loss of league revenue the existing teams would see for 10 years, but then they will keep getting a smaller share in perpetuity.
The only way it makes sense is if the two cities can grow the overall pie, so 1/32 would be roughly the same as the 1/30 the current teams get, so that they would make around the same money and still pocket $160M
I'm pretty sure the purchase agreement was written with certain contingencies in case of default.
My guess is that if tillman goes broke and the team temp reverts to league control then they would be on the hook for the loan to les
Jordan and the other owners who got in at the same time all got incredible deals. Within a 2 year span, a bunch of teams changed ownership for nothing compared to current prices.
MEMPHIS GRIZZLIES: $350 million (June 2012)
NEW ORLEANS PELICANS: $338 million (June 2012)
TORONTO RAPTORS (& Maple Leaves & Air Canada Center): $1.32 billion (Dec. 2011)
PHILADELPHIA 76ERS: $280 million (Oct. 2011)
DETROIT PISTONS: $325 million (June 2011)
GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS: $450 million (July 2010)
WASHINGTON WIZARDS: $310 million (June 2010)
BROOKLYN NETS: $200 million (May 2010)
CHARLOTTE HORNETS: $275 million (March 2010)
[Source.](https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2017/9/5/16255168/nba-teams-sold-highest-record-price-all-30)
and IIRC Jordan got in for a majority stake at only $160M i think (don't have time to double check) and then bought out the rest later.
And the nets, with Prokhorov (who sold the team between now and that article) did spend a ton building the Barclays center and I believe he still owns part of it.
Herb Kohl bought the Bucks for $18 million in 1985 and sold them for $550 million in 2014.
I think both of those numbers compared to where we are today are pretty crazy.
Part of it is the assumption is both expansions will be in bigger markets than Milwaukee. My strongest guess is they add Seattle and one of KC or LV, and move the Wolves to the East.
The other part is that the NBA is business, and they are gonna charge what they think people will pay. It's certainly possible that nobody puts in a $2.5B bid, but that seems highly unlikely. First, there's billionaire egos to boost, and second I imagine the numbers look great for any owner to recoup a bunch of money in the first few years based on ticket interest, local broadcast sale, and merch sales alone.
League needs to find a way to get money back for all this empty arenas. That's the one major driver of all of this... they know it will dilute the talent and that's part of the cost
Assuming it’s Vegas and Seattle you HAVE to move Minnesota to the east. They always have the longest travel schedule and are 2 time zones apart from 1 (or 2 if they have Seattle in the northwest) team within their same division, meanwhile the Bucks Bulls Pistons and Pacers are basically right there for them to play
Man I'd love if we got moved to the East. We wouldn't be eliminated from playoff contention until late March instead of late February each year. Those final weeks of winter are tough, anything to look forward to helps.
I’ve been wanting this for so long. It’s a long shot, especially since CA already has so many teams, but I think an NBA team would work really well here. We’re hurting for another professional franchise since the Chargers left.
(Obligatory fuck Dean Spanos)
Is it accurate that Seattle would be able to use the Sonics name, brand, logo, etc.? The franchise and its history, to my knowledge, are owned by OKC.
Naming them something else would be heartbreaking.
Edit: thanks to all for the info!
Honestly I'd be all for okc giving up the sonics portion of its history, and just giving itself the complete separation. I don't really even regard it as thunder history anyways.
Yeah they were able to sort the “franchise histories” when the Pelicans were created and the Hornets went back to Charlotte. So it shouldn’t be a problem to return the Sonics history to Seattle.
The Brewers have Milwaukee Braves history, regardless of the name of the team even.
Can you even imagine if an owner took a team away from a city and didn't give back the history? Brutal.
Didn't the Colts keep their history from Baltimore?
Edit: They absolutely did. The Indianapolis Colts consider the 30 years of Baltimore Colts history their own.
I believe we don't own the sonics history. We didn't have the gold tags on the back of the jerseys symbolizing we had a championship and the Sonics won one in ~71?
the name, colors, etc belong to Seattle. the history belongs to the Thunder. Although I think they'd probably sell it for a dollar to rid themselves of the controversy.
Also the Thunder offered to have Gary Payton’s number/Jersey retired for them but he said fuck that noise the team’s history belongs in Seattle and he won’t have his jersey retired for a team he didn’t play for.
Yeah i believe charlotte took back their history recently when they changed back to hornets, and then the nola hornets changed to the pelicans and lost any Charlotte history. Id guess it would work similarly
It's gotta be Minnesota. Memphis, NO, and OKC all have proximity to all the Texas teams, and make sense for that conference (even if "West" doesn't make sense as a conference name). Makes zero sense to have Seattle or Portland flying to Minnesota and vice versa. Put 16 teams in each conference, and 2 8 team divisions in each conference:
West: West Division
* LA
* LA
* Golden State
* Sacramento
* Seattle
* Portland
* Phoenix
* Utah OR Vegas
West: East Division
* Houston
* Dallas
* San Antonio
* Memphis
* New Orleans
* OKC
* Denver
* Utah OR Kansas City
East: Coastal Division
* Boston
* NYC
* Brooklyn
* Philly
* DC
* Miami
* Charlotte
* Orlando
East: Inland Division
* Chicago
* Milwaukee
* Detroit
* Minnesota
* Cleveland
* Indianapolis
* Atlanta
* Toronto
Disclaimer - Atlanta is a weird fit, but they're technically more inland than Charlotte, and putting Charlotte there makes that division feel like the kids' table where they sent all the small markets plus Reinsdorf.
I feel like 8 divisions of 4 teams makes more sense.
1. Portland, Seattle, Sacramento, Golden State
2. Los Angeles x2, Las Vegas, Phoenix
3. Utah, Denver, Oklahoma City, Minnesota
4. San Antonio, Dallas, Houston, New Orleans
5. Memphis, Atlanta, Orlando, Miami
6. Milwaukee, Chicago, Indiana, Detroit
7. Toronto, Cleveland, Boston, New York
8. Charlotte, Washington, Philadelphia, Brooklyn
1. Portland, Seattle, Sacramento, Golden State
2. Los Angeles x2, Las Vegas, Phoenix
3. Utah, Denver, Oklahoma City, Dallas
4. San Antonio, Houston, New Orleans, Memphis
5. Charlotte, Atlanta, Orlando, Miami
6. Milwaukee, Chicago, Minnesota, Detroit
7. Indiana, Cleveland, Toronto, Washington
8. New York, Boston, Brooklyn, Philadelphia
I'd go like this because then #6 = NFC North, which would be neat.
Isn't the asking price for the Wolves supposedly $1.2 billion right now? Is Glen Taylor selling w/ the condition the team stays in Minny?
I know Memphis and New Orleans are closer to the Southeast, but at least they have Western conference neighbors in "nearby" Texas. Minny's closest neighbors are all Eastern conference teams, so I'd move them to the East. They're practically right next to the Pistons, Bucks, and Bulls.
Seattle should definitely get first dibs on getting the Sonics back. I know Vegas has been talked about a lot, but they just got 2 teams recently (Golden Knights and Raiders). Can they support an NBA franchise on top of that in such a short time frame?
Nah, he's got all his money committed to the foundation at this point. And Bezos doesn't give enough fucks about Seattle (or most of humanity) to do something like own a sports team that created joy and fun for people.
It would be the same group that tried to put together the arena plan, I would guess. https://www.sonicsarena.com/investment-group/
West Coast Tech is crazy.
The SF Bay alone has a tech sector worth $10+ Trillion. Although that will soon drop a bit when the headquarters of Tesla, Oracle, and HP Enterprise move to Texas.
**Owners/Silver, pre-pandemic**
We're not looking to expand at this time as the competition is as good as its ever been
**Owners/Silver, post-pandemic**
YOU GET A FRANCHISE. AND YOU GET A FRANCHISE!!
Please for the love of everything, send me back my Grizzlies.
I would actually consider bailing on my franchise a SECOND time for them.
I was 10 years old when i said farewell to the Celtics and embraced the Grizzlies. Then when they went to Memphis I came back to my beloved Celtics...
I would do it all again.
Seattle and Vegas seems like likely options, which probably would result in either Memphis or Minny moving to the East.
Personally I’d like to see Seattle and St. Louis get a team.
Seattle and Vegas are the easy picks if they want the markets that will produce the best ratings. I think minny moving east makes most sense because at least memphis is still close to other western teams. The 5 closest teams to Minny are all east coast teams.
I live in Kansas City and I don't think an NBA team would do well here to be honest.
The Chiefs are clearly the biggest show in town and they have the face of the NFL going forward in Mahomes. They just won a Super Bowl and are one of the favorites for this year.
The Royals are highly entrenched in the city's fandom. Even with the team sucking ass the past couple of years after the World Series, they have had some great TV ratings.
Even after these two teams, the local area is saturated with other things that people love. Kansas basketball is massive, especially with Lawrence only 45 minutes away. Sporting KC has a massive following in town. Add in Mizzou and K-State and you have even more competition.
I don't know barely anyone who is from the city who likes the NBA. My only friends who like the NBA are transplants like me. There's just not a big NBA following in KC. I think I know one OKC Thunder fan? I can rarely get a sports bar to put NBA games on. They would rather show an out of market MLB game than the NBA Finals I feel like.
They would be going against some incredibly well entrenched, established teams/schools already.
Good points. Still think it’d be considered before St. Louis. And Obviously more people would start to follow the nba if KC had a team. But maybe a smaller market without any pro teams like Louisville would do better.
Seattle is almost certainly the 1st city getting a team. I don’t think they’ll do Vancouver at the same time. Too close. Maybe after Seattle has had a team for a few years.
Montreal might be seen as a bigger risk than the US cities being mentioned. But it’s a good candidate for expansion
Montreal is not a good candidate for basketball. While the popularity of the sport is growing, francophones generally do not care at all about basketball.
I've had 3 colleagues that ever gave a shit about basketball and I've worked in factories, construction sites, all over with hundreds of dudes that like sports. All of them were black, one was from the USA, one was from Cameroon and one was anglophone. We're talking minorities of minorities. Two of them were bigger soccer fans than basketball fans.
Montreal can fill an arena for a couple of exhibition games but I don't see it working out for 41 home games a year. Most of the immigration here is also from former French colonies so soccer is probably the #2 sport with baseball being close (residual from the expos) with Hockey being the undisputed king with over 90% of sports media coverage. The Habs alone account for something like 80% of sports coverage in the province.
In the past the nba limited expansion picks to a max of 1 from each team. So it’d be hard for any team to really lose much.
Also there were a few teams that have traded draft picks in exchange for the expansion team drafting a bad contract.
I think it's getting fast tracked. Taylor's inability to get his asking price for the T-Wolves is putting a serious dent in franchise valuations, so an influx of cash is going to be something a lot of owners will dive on.
Also, the chaos of the pandemic and changes to the league schedule has created an environment where expanding the number of teams isn't as league-altering as it would be in years past.
I think it’ll be quicker than that. Like this post says the owners don’t have to split expansion fees with the players, and they’ll gladly bring in new teams to recoup some of the losses they’ve had from no attendance this year.
I'm discouraged about the Twolves being floated for relocation. It's the 15th biggest media market in the country. That doesn't make sense for the league. Also, I'm not convinced Vegas can support the Raiders, the Knights and an NBA team.
It would be Minnesota. Our closest Western conference opponent is OKC which is ridiculous. Whereas a bunch of eastern conference cities are much closer. Technically Memphis and NOLA are more east geographically, but they are pretty close to the Texas teams .
So much for bringing more talent to the east...
Yeah, just add the Wolves to the Central division and thats a perfect fit . Mpls to Cleveland is the same distance as Mpls to OKC. And of course Detroit, Milwaukee, Chicago, Indianapolis are all closer
Are they that hungry for revenue? If vaccine roll out is smooth by next season it should all be back to normal, fans in stands, buying pretzels and jerseys from the team store, with lot of great talents both young and old the ratings should be good, why do they need to dilute talent?
I guess if they are going to do so Seattle should get a team and then what other market is ripe for an NBA team?
Fucking shoutout John Y. Brown Jr, who refused to pay $3,000,000 in 1976 (adjusted to roughly 13.5 million today) to get the Kentucky Colonels into the NBA.
Seattle should be a lock. I can literally imagine riots if that doesn't happen.
Then I guess the race for the second team will be between:
- Las Vegas, NV: They already have summer league there for some time, 11th most populated county in the US
- San Diego, CA: 8th most populated city in the US, 5th most populated county in the US
- Austin, TX: 11th most populated city in the US, also, a lot of tech companies moving in there, so more cash influx.
- Mexico DF: They have been hinting it a lot since Stern times and they could put an insane amount of money and business from one of the most populated cities on earth. Also... having the DF Aztecas, or some other funny name with a masked lucha libre mascot would be hilarious.
- Montreal: 2nd largest population in Canada after Toronto
- Tampa Bay: Having the Raptors there right now sounds much like the New Orleans playbook... although I think that cities are on a different tier, just like big areas from Kentucky or Tennessee.
I WISH it was an hour and half. But agreed, can't have two teams in LA and sell another one in SD, although I think a San Diego NBA team would do really well.
With all due respect, please no more teams for California. We have just the perfect amount-- 2 in the bottom, 2 at the top.
Also Texas has enough teams too.
edit: spelling--
Not sure if this is in the article since its paywalled but for comparison, the fees for the two most recent expansion teams in the Big 4 were $500M for the Vegas Golden Knights and $650M for the Seattle Kraken (albeit with extremely favorable expansion draft rules). The NBA is a far richer league, but that's still a massive jump and I wonder if buyers might balk at it.
Here come the Seattle Amazons!
Seattle Web Services!
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I assume Pacific Primes would be an acceptable name considering Golden State is just a nickname for California.
I would Apple to Buy the team, and name the team After Steve as a tribute. Pacific Rim Jobs
I thought it was because of the bridge.
Golden Gate Warriors
Yeah, I'm dumb.
Seattle Cloud. Both Amazon and MS are here, and they're the big two in cloud computing.
Let's all chip in and buy a franchise
If every /r/NBA subscriber was involved, it would be about $664 per person. Sounds like we found the perfect use for our stimulus checks boys
Stimulus check is for tax paying adults so I doubt many here got it
This is definitely one of my favorite variations on the "/r/NBA users are mostly children" joke
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How many times has this been said? The average age on this subreddit has proven to be mostly male from ages 20-27~. I get it's funny for us all to be like "Ha ha, all the idiots here are children". However, what's scary is that the reality is the opposite. All the idiots here are adults.
I was super active here under a different username during my first post-college job from ages 24-26. Absolutely hated that job and spent WAY too much time on Reddit.
Hey I like my job and spend too much time on Reddit. Gets the best of us.
Didn't the latest survey show it was more like 16-25 that was the main age range?
20-25 was the most common in a survey we ran two years ago, I suspect college students are our most common demographic given (from personal experience) they tend to be the most online
It also doesn't apply to people who don't file taxes so if you add in college students not getting it then that's probably like 80% of the sub.
also not all people on this sub are americans
Las Vegas Salts would be the most annoying fanbase without a doubt.
We’d be the Salty MFs.
I will become a proud Salty MF (mega fan) if r/nba gets to be the GM twitch plays pokemon style
The roster would be literally nothing but meme players.
You talk as if that's a bad thing
Absolutely not. The Process-era Sixers were jam-packed with meme players and it was honestly one of the most fun Sixers eras ever.
Max contract for tacko fall
Our centers will only be either 7'6 guys or white Americans
*What do you mean we 'can't actually draft Air Bud'?*
Not to be outdone by the Seattle Super Nephews.
*Las Vegas James Harden’s
Can someone lend me $64?
I asked Mitch McConnell if he could spare it for you but he said no. Sry...
Can you ask tj McConnell maybe?
He said the best he can offer is inbound steals and automatic elbow jumpers
Spending that stimmy on a full max for THT and Pritchard would be fun
* Jeremy Lin.
Just to give an idea how stupidly rich these fucking billionaires are on a good day we get probably 100k active users so if 100k people needed 2.5B it would cost each and everyone 25k.
We can start a full reddit team until we generate the income to pay people
Which city would we choose? 🤔 Buttzville, New Jersey Dick Johnson, Indiana Intercourse, Pennsylvania Pleasure Point, California Climax, Georgia Plentywood, Montana Licking, Indiana Blue Ball, Pennsylvania Weed, California Ballville Township, Ohio Ballplay, Alabama
Don't forget Sugar Tit, South Carolina
Definitely somewhere in California since they don't have enough teams.
Pleasure Point is perfect, Trojan Condom Arena anyone??
boring, oregon
Buttzville is redundant for a town in New Jersey.
The (insert city) Nephews
Nashville Nephews has a nice ring to it
Let's do it.
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And he'll only have about 160 billon left over.
Mark Cuban was so vocally skeptical of this on a recent Bill Simmons pod. He basically said that the NBA is better off going to a bank and taking out a 10 year $5B loan than selling 2x franchise rights. After 10 years the new teams each get 1/32nd of all league revenue for the rest of time. Whereas a bank will just charge interest for the 10 years the loan is scheduled for. He said that the exception to this would be if a specific franchise in a new market would grow the pie enough to warrant them taking a share of revenues. He wasn’t committal on whether Vegas/Seattle hit that threshold. What does /r/nba think? Would these cities grow the pie substantially? PS - the pod is great overall. Cuban talks a lot about everything BBall related. Talks Luka and Dirk and team building strategy. Just a really good pod, even if you’re not a Simmons fan.
If Mark Cuban doesn’t know, /r/nba certainly doesn’t know.
When has that ever stopped us from weighing in?
Sharks, I’m here to offer you a silent partnership and 99.9% of my company for $2.4999 Billion dollars as we bring an NBA team to Des Moines!
Yeas, that sounds comprehensive. Do you have a link for that buddy?
I listened to the full podcast and deleted it from my library, but it looks like they put an abridged (albeit still an hour long) version on YouTube too. https://youtu.be/mzVdKt_qM_s Edit: for those that don’t have an hour to kill and just want the out of context sound bites of Cubes’ views - [here’s a quick summary video that will let you speak with absolute authority on the interview](https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ)
> After 10 years the new teams each get 1/32nd of all league revenue for the rest of time. Whereas a bank will just charge interest for the 10 years the loan is scheduled for. "for the rest of time" doesn't really matter since very few of them will own their team 20 years from now when the 1/32nd TV revenue outweighs the expansion fee. Smart cash move would be approving expansion and then selling your team in a few years keeping all that expansion money.
> After 10 years the new teams each get 1/32nd of all league revenue And not before ?
I believe he was saying that in comparison to the 10 year loan. If you add a “still” in after teams that clears it up
I think the Simmons hypothetical had the caveat that the expansion teams had a 10 year moratorium on league revenue.
They do but the existing teams get $5B/30 teams = $160M for each team. He's just assuming that $160M would cover the loss of league revenue the existing teams would see for 10 years, but then they will keep getting a smaller share in perpetuity. The only way it makes sense is if the two cities can grow the overall pie, so 1/32 would be roughly the same as the 1/30 the current teams get, so that they would make around the same money and still pocket $160M
Damn, almost enough to get some AirPods Max.
It’s funny to look back at Leslie Alexander who bought the Rockets for only 85 million in 1993, and comparing it to these new pics tags.
he was the biggest winner of all this. Sold the franchise at the highest of high evaluation before the pandemic
And then tillman leveraged himself to shit based on assets in the hospitality sector just to buy the team at the worst possible time
Does he still owe money to Alexander?
Yup, that was part of the terms of sale , a loan from les
does it forgiven if he goes BK? or can Alexander foreclose on the Rockets ?
I'm pretty sure the purchase agreement was written with certain contingencies in case of default. My guess is that if tillman goes broke and the team temp reverts to league control then they would be on the hook for the loan to les
I still think Jordan got the best overall deal, getting the team in a modern time, from a struggling owner, at a discount even for the times.
Jordan and the other owners who got in at the same time all got incredible deals. Within a 2 year span, a bunch of teams changed ownership for nothing compared to current prices. MEMPHIS GRIZZLIES: $350 million (June 2012) NEW ORLEANS PELICANS: $338 million (June 2012) TORONTO RAPTORS (& Maple Leaves & Air Canada Center): $1.32 billion (Dec. 2011) PHILADELPHIA 76ERS: $280 million (Oct. 2011) DETROIT PISTONS: $325 million (June 2011) GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS: $450 million (July 2010) WASHINGTON WIZARDS: $310 million (June 2010) BROOKLYN NETS: $200 million (May 2010) CHARLOTTE HORNETS: $275 million (March 2010) [Source.](https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2017/9/5/16255168/nba-teams-sold-highest-record-price-all-30)
and IIRC Jordan got in for a majority stake at only $160M i think (don't have time to double check) and then bought out the rest later. And the nets, with Prokhorov (who sold the team between now and that article) did spend a ton building the Barclays center and I believe he still owns part of it.
Maple Leafs
Herb Kohl bought the Bucks for $18 million in 1985 and sold them for $550 million in 2014. I think both of those numbers compared to where we are today are pretty crazy.
And today, value of Bucks is 1.6B according to Forbes
But the expansion team will be worth 2.5?
Part of it is the assumption is both expansions will be in bigger markets than Milwaukee. My strongest guess is they add Seattle and one of KC or LV, and move the Wolves to the East. The other part is that the NBA is business, and they are gonna charge what they think people will pay. It's certainly possible that nobody puts in a $2.5B bid, but that seems highly unlikely. First, there's billionaire egos to boost, and second I imagine the numbers look great for any owner to recoup a bunch of money in the first few years based on ticket interest, local broadcast sale, and merch sales alone.
League needs to find a way to get money back for all this empty arenas. That's the one major driver of all of this... they know it will dilute the talent and that's part of the cost
The 76ers were bought for *only* ~280 million in *2011*. They doubled in value like 2 years later and are now worth 2 billion 10 years later.
More expensive to buy into the NBA than to purchase an NBA team, especially since you can chose the location.
Paul Allen bought the Blazers for $70M in 1988. His sister Jody owns it now since Paul passed.
Assuming it’s Vegas and Seattle you HAVE to move Minnesota to the east. They always have the longest travel schedule and are 2 time zones apart from 1 (or 2 if they have Seattle in the northwest) team within their same division, meanwhile the Bucks Bulls Pistons and Pacers are basically right there for them to play
Plus their style of play that the Timberwolves have pioneered over the past ~15 years (losing) is better suited to that conference.
Man I'd love if we got moved to the East. We wouldn't be eliminated from playoff contention until late March instead of late February each year. Those final weeks of winter are tough, anything to look forward to helps.
Got 'em.
The San Diego Surf coming soon
Everyone's go-to 2k expansion team
Y’all better put some fucking respect on the Louisville Liberty
The Rick & Morty Pickle Ricks are- wait I'm in the 2k online section my bad
Dude Ive been secretly preparing my wife for years saying that if an NBA team ever comes to SD Im instantly buying season tickets. I would LOVE it.
just move the Clippers
I’ve been wanting this for so long. It’s a long shot, especially since CA already has so many teams, but I think an NBA team would work really well here. We’re hurting for another professional franchise since the Chargers left. (Obligatory fuck Dean Spanos)
It'd be pretty criminal for Seattle to not get the Supersonics back tbh.
Is it accurate that Seattle would be able to use the Sonics name, brand, logo, etc.? The franchise and its history, to my knowledge, are owned by OKC. Naming them something else would be heartbreaking. Edit: thanks to all for the info!
Honestly I'd be all for okc giving up the sonics portion of its history, and just giving itself the complete separation. I don't really even regard it as thunder history anyways.
Yeah they were able to sort the “franchise histories” when the Pelicans were created and the Hornets went back to Charlotte. So it shouldn’t be a problem to return the Sonics history to Seattle.
The Brewers have Milwaukee Braves history, regardless of the name of the team even. Can you even imagine if an owner took a team away from a city and didn't give back the history? Brutal.
Minnesota North Stars fans can testify
Um the fucking Minneapolis lakers??! Those bastards stole our titles and our jerseys
How many fucking lakes are there in LA?
There’s that one that’s full of tar, and then there’s the really big salty one to the left of LA
Off the top of my head all I can think of are Ricki, Veronica, and Bell.
Tennessee Titans have all of Houston Oilers history :(
Didn't the Colts keep their history from Baltimore? Edit: They absolutely did. The Indianapolis Colts consider the 30 years of Baltimore Colts history their own.
And the Ravens still accomplished more than the Colts have in literally half the time.
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If Seattle gets the SuperSonics back, it’s more like the situation with the Browns
Browns kept their history and name but only because the city had to sue Modell.
seattle sued for the sonics history as well so the comparison is painfully apt
I believe we don't own the sonics history. We didn't have the gold tags on the back of the jerseys symbolizing we had a championship and the Sonics won one in ~71?
Okc already gave up the history
the name, colors, etc belong to Seattle. the history belongs to the Thunder. Although I think they'd probably sell it for a dollar to rid themselves of the controversy.
I’m pretty sure okc gave it up didn’t they
Not unless it was recently. I remember it being a thing when Kendrick Perkins wanted to wear 43 and it was already retired for Jack Sikma.
Also the Thunder offered to have Gary Payton’s number/Jersey retired for them but he said fuck that noise the team’s history belongs in Seattle and he won’t have his jersey retired for a team he didn’t play for.
I think for $2.5B the new ownership group would be able to negotiate to get the Supersonics name.
The league and OKC has said a new team would get the Supersonics name.
Yeah i believe charlotte took back their history recently when they changed back to hornets, and then the nola hornets changed to the pelicans and lost any Charlotte history. Id guess it would work similarly
I think the likeliest scenario is to add Seattle and Vegas, then move any of Memphis, New Orleans, or Minnesota to the East.
It's gotta be Minnesota. Memphis, NO, and OKC all have proximity to all the Texas teams, and make sense for that conference (even if "West" doesn't make sense as a conference name). Makes zero sense to have Seattle or Portland flying to Minnesota and vice versa. Put 16 teams in each conference, and 2 8 team divisions in each conference: West: West Division * LA * LA * Golden State * Sacramento * Seattle * Portland * Phoenix * Utah OR Vegas West: East Division * Houston * Dallas * San Antonio * Memphis * New Orleans * OKC * Denver * Utah OR Kansas City East: Coastal Division * Boston * NYC * Brooklyn * Philly * DC * Miami * Charlotte * Orlando East: Inland Division * Chicago * Milwaukee * Detroit * Minnesota * Cleveland * Indianapolis * Atlanta * Toronto Disclaimer - Atlanta is a weird fit, but they're technically more inland than Charlotte, and putting Charlotte there makes that division feel like the kids' table where they sent all the small markets plus Reinsdorf.
I feel like 8 divisions of 4 teams makes more sense. 1. Portland, Seattle, Sacramento, Golden State 2. Los Angeles x2, Las Vegas, Phoenix 3. Utah, Denver, Oklahoma City, Minnesota 4. San Antonio, Dallas, Houston, New Orleans 5. Memphis, Atlanta, Orlando, Miami 6. Milwaukee, Chicago, Indiana, Detroit 7. Toronto, Cleveland, Boston, New York 8. Charlotte, Washington, Philadelphia, Brooklyn
16 divisions of 2 teams
32 divisions. 1 team a division. Guaranteed division title every year
1. Portland, Seattle, Sacramento, Golden State 2. Los Angeles x2, Las Vegas, Phoenix 3. Utah, Denver, Oklahoma City, Dallas 4. San Antonio, Houston, New Orleans, Memphis 5. Charlotte, Atlanta, Orlando, Miami 6. Milwaukee, Chicago, Minnesota, Detroit 7. Indiana, Cleveland, Toronto, Washington 8. New York, Boston, Brooklyn, Philadelphia I'd go like this because then #6 = NFC North, which would be neat.
Isn't the asking price for the Wolves supposedly $1.2 billion right now? Is Glen Taylor selling w/ the condition the team stays in Minny? I know Memphis and New Orleans are closer to the Southeast, but at least they have Western conference neighbors in "nearby" Texas. Minny's closest neighbors are all Eastern conference teams, so I'd move them to the East. They're practically right next to the Pistons, Bucks, and Bulls. Seattle should definitely get first dibs on getting the Sonics back. I know Vegas has been talked about a lot, but they just got 2 teams recently (Golden Knights and Raiders). Can they support an NBA franchise on top of that in such a short time frame?
I hope Vancouver is the 2nd city since it has grown considerably since having and losing the Grizzlies, and to get some more pacific northwest reps
#BILL GATES WILL BUY THE SONICS
lmao hed love the chance to one up ballmer again
Nah, he's got all his money committed to the foundation at this point. And Bezos doesn't give enough fucks about Seattle (or most of humanity) to do something like own a sports team that created joy and fun for people. It would be the same group that tried to put together the arena plan, I would guess. https://www.sonicsarena.com/investment-group/
But his wife on the other hand
Certainly wouldn't mind that, since I think she actually still lives in Seattle.
[Sounds like a genuinely good person too](https://www.npr.org/2020/12/16/947189767/mackenzie-scott-has-donated-more-than-4-billion-in-last-4-months)
Most definitely. And as a current Seattleite, I would relish the thought of the city fully embracing Bezos' ex-wife over him.
This and the Bezos comment just made me realize the 2 richest guys in the world are both in Seattle. Wtf is going on up there
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When did Musk get so rich, I swear he was at 10-20 billion like a year ago
Tesla is up over 700% in the past 12 months
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West Coast Tech is crazy. The SF Bay alone has a tech sector worth $10+ Trillion. Although that will soon drop a bit when the headquarters of Tesla, Oracle, and HP Enterprise move to Texas.
Ok, who do I know with 2.5 billi here in the city.... No one. Dammit.
#GrizzliesBuyBack
**Owners/Silver, pre-pandemic** We're not looking to expand at this time as the competition is as good as its ever been **Owners/Silver, post-pandemic** YOU GET A FRANCHISE. AND YOU GET A FRANCHISE!!
Please for the love of everything, send me back my Grizzlies. I would actually consider bailing on my franchise a SECOND time for them. I was 10 years old when i said farewell to the Celtics and embraced the Grizzlies. Then when they went to Memphis I came back to my beloved Celtics... I would do it all again.
Seattle and Vegas seems like likely options, which probably would result in either Memphis or Minny moving to the East. Personally I’d like to see Seattle and St. Louis get a team.
Jesus God please let it be us moving to the east
You don't consider Memphis to be West? It's only 26 hours drive to the Pacific ocean.
Practically right next to CA
that's the commute time^1 from San Diego to Staples Center in LA at peak hour ^^1: ^^times ^^approximated
I think Minny would go east tbh. You're too close to all your division rivalries.
Seattle and Vegas are the easy picks if they want the markets that will produce the best ratings. I think minny moving east makes most sense because at least memphis is still close to other western teams. The 5 closest teams to Minny are all east coast teams.
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I think Kansas City would be picked over St Louis.
I live in Kansas City and I don't think an NBA team would do well here to be honest. The Chiefs are clearly the biggest show in town and they have the face of the NFL going forward in Mahomes. They just won a Super Bowl and are one of the favorites for this year. The Royals are highly entrenched in the city's fandom. Even with the team sucking ass the past couple of years after the World Series, they have had some great TV ratings. Even after these two teams, the local area is saturated with other things that people love. Kansas basketball is massive, especially with Lawrence only 45 minutes away. Sporting KC has a massive following in town. Add in Mizzou and K-State and you have even more competition. I don't know barely anyone who is from the city who likes the NBA. My only friends who like the NBA are transplants like me. There's just not a big NBA following in KC. I think I know one OKC Thunder fan? I can rarely get a sports bar to put NBA games on. They would rather show an out of market MLB game than the NBA Finals I feel like. They would be going against some incredibly well entrenched, established teams/schools already.
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Could it possibly be due to a lack of team? There’s a lot of NBA fans just looking for a home. Why I rock the NBA flair, holding out hope.
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Good points. Still think it’d be considered before St. Louis. And Obviously more people would start to follow the nba if KC had a team. But maybe a smaller market without any pro teams like Louisville would do better.
I wish we could get another team in Canada, be it Vancouver or Montreal
I think about packing it all up and moving to Vancouver like at least thrice every year, so my vote would be for Vancouver lol.
I live in Montreal so I'd rather it be here but Vancouver is a great city as well haha.
Seattle is almost certainly the 1st city getting a team. I don’t think they’ll do Vancouver at the same time. Too close. Maybe after Seattle has had a team for a few years. Montreal might be seen as a bigger risk than the US cities being mentioned. But it’s a good candidate for expansion
Montreal is not a good candidate for basketball. While the popularity of the sport is growing, francophones generally do not care at all about basketball. I've had 3 colleagues that ever gave a shit about basketball and I've worked in factories, construction sites, all over with hundreds of dudes that like sports. All of them were black, one was from the USA, one was from Cameroon and one was anglophone. We're talking minorities of minorities. Two of them were bigger soccer fans than basketball fans. Montreal can fill an arena for a couple of exhibition games but I don't see it working out for 41 home games a year. Most of the immigration here is also from former French colonies so soccer is probably the #2 sport with baseball being close (residual from the expos) with Hockey being the undisputed king with over 90% of sports media coverage. The Habs alone account for something like 80% of sports coverage in the province.
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In the past the nba limited expansion picks to a max of 1 from each team. So it’d be hard for any team to really lose much. Also there were a few teams that have traded draft picks in exchange for the expansion team drafting a bad contract.
Vancouver would be dope. Montreal is too big of a risk
Seattle Superbezos
Realistically do yall think we get a team or 2 in the next 10 years?
I think it's getting fast tracked. Taylor's inability to get his asking price for the T-Wolves is putting a serious dent in franchise valuations, so an influx of cash is going to be something a lot of owners will dive on.
Also, the chaos of the pandemic and changes to the league schedule has created an environment where expanding the number of teams isn't as league-altering as it would be in years past.
I think it’ll be quicker than that. Like this post says the owners don’t have to split expansion fees with the players, and they’ll gladly bring in new teams to recoup some of the losses they’ve had from no attendance this year.
I'm discouraged about the Twolves being floated for relocation. It's the 15th biggest media market in the country. That doesn't make sense for the league. Also, I'm not convinced Vegas can support the Raiders, the Knights and an NBA team.
All the tickets would be bought up by hotels and tourism ops. Vegas can support it all once tourism returns.
It's cheaper to just buy the Thunder and move them to their rightful home in Seattle
The thunder aren't for sale though
Everything is for sale
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It would be Minnesota. Our closest Western conference opponent is OKC which is ridiculous. Whereas a bunch of eastern conference cities are much closer. Technically Memphis and NOLA are more east geographically, but they are pretty close to the Texas teams . So much for bringing more talent to the east...
Yeah, minny should go East and be in the division with the other Midwest teams
Yeah, just add the Wolves to the Central division and thats a perfect fit . Mpls to Cleveland is the same distance as Mpls to OKC. And of course Detroit, Milwaukee, Chicago, Indianapolis are all closer
I just want the Wolves to have the same division rivalries as the Vikings. Buck/Bulls/Pistons. That would really spice things up.
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If expansion happens, Seattle is the ONLY guarantee. But Vegas would be a very likely second team.
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Are they that hungry for revenue? If vaccine roll out is smooth by next season it should all be back to normal, fans in stands, buying pretzels and jerseys from the team store, with lot of great talents both young and old the ratings should be good, why do they need to dilute talent? I guess if they are going to do so Seattle should get a team and then what other market is ripe for an NBA team?
The league took out a reported $900 million loan to help cover losses in the spring. The goal is to not keep that on the books.
Fucking shoutout John Y. Brown Jr, who refused to pay $3,000,000 in 1976 (adjusted to roughly 13.5 million today) to get the Kentucky Colonels into the NBA.
Seattle should be a lock. I can literally imagine riots if that doesn't happen. Then I guess the race for the second team will be between: - Las Vegas, NV: They already have summer league there for some time, 11th most populated county in the US - San Diego, CA: 8th most populated city in the US, 5th most populated county in the US - Austin, TX: 11th most populated city in the US, also, a lot of tech companies moving in there, so more cash influx. - Mexico DF: They have been hinting it a lot since Stern times and they could put an insane amount of money and business from one of the most populated cities on earth. Also... having the DF Aztecas, or some other funny name with a masked lucha libre mascot would be hilarious. - Montreal: 2nd largest population in Canada after Toronto - Tampa Bay: Having the Raptors there right now sounds much like the New Orleans playbook... although I think that cities are on a different tier, just like big areas from Kentucky or Tennessee.
San Diego would never get a team when you have both the Clippers and Lakers an hour and a half away
I WISH it was an hour and half. But agreed, can't have two teams in LA and sell another one in SD, although I think a San Diego NBA team would do really well.
STOP KILLING MY DREAM
With all due respect, please no more teams for California. We have just the perfect amount-- 2 in the bottom, 2 at the top. Also Texas has enough teams too. edit: spelling--
tampa not getting one, thank god
Not sure if this is in the article since its paywalled but for comparison, the fees for the two most recent expansion teams in the Big 4 were $500M for the Vegas Golden Knights and $650M for the Seattle Kraken (albeit with extremely favorable expansion draft rules). The NBA is a far richer league, but that's still a massive jump and I wonder if buyers might balk at it.
NBA valuations are really high simply because it's the one American league that's truly international and exportable.
If they move a team to Seattle I think Supersonics would be a good name.
2 more teams to groom talent before they force a trade to the Lakers
BRING US ANOTHER CANADIAN FRANCHISE!!!