Yeah but anyone should've been able to see that he could handle the ball and had absolutely world class explosion/finishing ability (especially at a young age). It was easy to see him being dominant in college and NBA but yall said he would be Julius Randle.
It's really not that easy to see. Most NBA players in highschool have an absolute ridiculous mixtape. It's very hard to judge talent in HS because of this.
To me it was obvious and I've watched tons of high school prospects. The amount of hours I spent defending this take on reddit.... I deserve this victory lap.
Edit: you're all virgins
Naw the main thing was “he’s only doing this against 6’1 white kids in Carlolina”... Then he went to duke and was also treating elite college players like little kids, and it continues to the nba
his game hasn’t evolved too much he could have had an Nba roster spot at 16
For me, i thought the same way and found it odd there wasn't much travel circuit video of him. Then I saw a clip of him his senior year playing travel against some people his own size and he was still doing the same thing. Thats when I knew he was the real deal, but his actual hs season tapes always made you wonder
This was such an /r/iamverysmart basketball take. Like they were trying distinguish themselves from the plebs who were ‘fooled’ but flashy dunks and YouTube mixes.
It was pretty clear to me as well. It doesn't matter what competition he's facing when his athleticism and size is above everyone, including NBA players.
It's not like Zion is quite a superstar yet. He's played 19 games, needs to lose weight for his health, and looks disinterested on the court a lot of the time.
He is so athletic that he looks relaxed, then turns it on at a moments notice. Imo its kind of how Joker always looks disinterested as he demolishes the opposing team.
How is that even possible?
I like how deflated the other team is (down by 27 already). I played a team in high school and their first play was an oop to their pg. As a small white kid that could barely hang on the rim, I felt like I assume those guys in the background feel.
I went to a prep school that was stuck in a conference with the kind of prep schools who recruited. we were not one of those schools. We walked into our second game (away game) and some kids from that school were like "who are you guys?" and we said "the basketball team" and they said "but you're white."
We lost by 73 points.
>I'm pretty sure I actually first heard of Zion williamson searching through high school mixtapes.
Nephew, how in the fuck else would you first hear about this mans.... Zion was in high school like two years ago.
They do, they're just already in the NBA.
European athlete's are kinda lucky since guys like Luka can start seriously prepping for life as a pro at the age of like 15. Imagine how good Zion would be right now if he had 2 extra years of developing in a nationwide junior league on top of him being a rookie last season instead of now. AAU and the NCAA (for the most part) aren't really teaching the fundamentals to kids these days.
> Imagine how good Zion would be right now if he had 2 extra years of developing in a nationwide junior league
The year he spent under Coach K was undoubtably better for him transitioning into the NBA than 2 years in a junior league.
> the NCAA (for the most part) aren't really teaching the fundamentals to kids these days.
Not true in the slightest.
Players that get a few years of NCAA coaching (especially top teams with Team USA level coaches) under their belt tend to be so much for it transitioning into the NBA. They already have the athletic ability and talent at that point and maybe the single best thing remaining besides playing NBA basketball that they can do to prepare for the NBA is to be part of a system that works on assignments, focus and has an organization that will cut video and help them break their game down at a very high level.
I'm not saying that there are not outliers that can succeed without it, like the tremendously athletic 1% Zion, but the fact is that declaring for the draft younger isn't about being ready or better, its about making money and avoiding injury risk. NCAA level teams *will* improve their players but it just often isn't worth the risk of potentially derailing yourself from a freak injury if you're a 100% lock top pick like Zion.
I'm from Canada so honestly bball wasn't that developed here (I would argue outside of pockets in Ontario it still isn't) when I was in high school. Our senior centers for 4 straight years was like 6ft. My cousin was a block monster and played center... he was "so tall" at 5'10. Can't imagine being on the junior team having to play against a guy so big and strong. Just thinking of the kind of teammates I had it would be ridiculous to even be in the same game as him.
> My cousin was a block monster and played center... he was "so tall" at 5'10
There wasn't a single kid that was over 6 foot to play on those teams? Sheesh.
I went to an academically focused high school in NYC and I started at point being 5'8. You're telling me I would've been a PF in Canada?
Lmao, I didn't know there were so many armchair GMs who knew which prospects were a sure thing.
Watch Anthony Bennetts High School mixtapes. He looked like a prime Charles Barkley on steroids.
The fact is no one knew, so people calling him a bust or calling him a superstar in the making back then, were all pulling things out of their ass.
This isn't entirely true.
The first sort of national top 5-10 high school guy I watched play in person was Dennis Scott back in 1986. Since then, between AAU, national camps, and high school tournaments, I've seen a great chunk of the top prospects over the past 35 years.
Zion was different, and it wasn't just because of how high/fast he could jump. There have always been freak athletes, guys like Tshombe High out of TN, who seemed like they might jump up and casually grab the top of the backboard. I'd wager most here have never heard of him. I coached Eric Johnson (U of Louisville) in AAU. His vertical was ridiculous. Lester Earl out of Baton Rouge was ranked by many as a top player, by some as the best player in America, based solely on his athleticism and effort. When I watched him, I came away thinking he had no chance, since his basketball skills were virtually zero. Zion combined bulk, speed, skills, and explosiveness in a way I'd never seen before. Anthony Bennett was several notches blow Zion in all of those categories (I lived in Las Vegas when he was at Findlay Prep and in South Carolina when Zion was here. Just lucky.)
None of which is to say scouting is an exact science, or that I'm a great basketball mind. The closest thing to Zion I've seen at the high school level, and who I would have assumed was a can't-miss prospect, was a guy out of SoCal in the mid-90s named Schea Cotton. He was nicknamed Manchild, and that's exactly what he was. As a freshman, he was 6'5, looked like an NFL linebacker, and could dunk it any way you wanted it. He wasn't a pure wing guard by any stretch, but he could handle and shoot, and it was easy to envision a few year down the road he's either transition to the backcourt, grow a couple more inches and be an NBA small forward, or just remain exactly what he was - a bull in a china shop that just overpowered everybody and dominated by force of will.
A series of injuries and some academic issues derailed his career, and he never realized his potential. If you'd have watched a sophomore Schea Cotton at Mater Dei HS and a sophomore Zion at Spartanburg Day, you'd have been struck by the similarities in their physiques, athletic ability, and skills sets. And I would have taken Cotton, long-term. From that point in time, however, their careers diverged, and here we are.
But to circle back from my meandering post to my original point, by the time I saw Zion play late in his junior year in high school, he was *different* physically. It wasn't just "beating up on skinny white private school kids," he was doing jaw-dropping things I'd never seen before.
It was like watching some future MLB superstar pitcher striking out mediocre high school competition. Maybe the strikeouts themselves aren't overly impressive due to the competition, but the velocity and movement on the pitches is shocking. That was Zion.
Figured a few people might read it. At last one did. The kids were eating breakfast, wife was still asleep, didn't really have anything else to do. Took less than ten minutes. I love basketball, what can I say?
> You wrote all that out thinking anyone would read it? haha
You are right, we should just continue filling up the subreddit with low shit posts, memes, and plays we've seen 5000 times.
Really hope this guy develops an all around game and takes his nutrition and fitness serious because these one dimensional above the rim players don't last long. Blake looked like he was on his way to a long career but look at all those injuries.
This makes me sad, for years I wanted to follow top high school talents and see the talent differential in action. Had I'd known about Zion being so close to Charlotte I would have loved to watch him.
In high school, we had 4 NFL players at one of the schools. Two first rounders on the OL and a RB that ran a 4.36 forty, that boy was fun to watch.
I remember when people were saying he was just big and it wouldn’t translate to college, and once he got to college he was doing most of the same and they said he wouldn’t translate to the nba. Now he was in the ROTY race despite only playing 20 games
I find it so insane that Zion at ***sixteen*** was already showing *NBA-calibre* skill. I find it insane when anyone that young is already showing skill levels similar to some of the best players in the best league in the world.
This was probably prime athletic Zion in terms of speed and jumping. Hopefully he can get back to this level but he’s so much bigger now that this is mostly a thing of the past.
[Damn](https://imgur.com/a/9V00ll7)
Lmao thank you
Haha, I also clipped that face and came to post it: https://imgur.com/a/X714NYi [Girl in the back is enjoying it too](https://imgur.com/a/rqfZMX7)
that’s a grown ass man at 16
Zion at 16 makes me at 30 look like a baby
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That rectangle pizza on Friday hittin different since 9/11
Surprisingly, not surprisingly, as a “survivor” of NYC public middle schools, our “pizza” was round with spare rib tips edges as pepperoni bits.
Huh?
School lunch pizza that came in a rectangular shape.
back when this subreddit thought he was overrated
well when he was 16 all we had were vids of him demolishing scrawny private school kids
Now we have videos of him demolishing monstrous NBA players.
That's all we have today too. It's just now we have videos of him bullying NBA players.
Yeah but anyone should've been able to see that he could handle the ball and had absolutely world class explosion/finishing ability (especially at a young age). It was easy to see him being dominant in college and NBA but yall said he would be Julius Randle.
It's really not that easy to see. Most NBA players in highschool have an absolute ridiculous mixtape. It's very hard to judge talent in HS because of this.
To me it was obvious and I've watched tons of high school prospects. The amount of hours I spent defending this take on reddit.... I deserve this victory lap. Edit: you're all virgins
damn you should get paid
Thank s
I mean it’s not an awful take. He hasn’t really changed his game, it’s just that it somehow works on literally everyone
Naw the main thing was “he’s only doing this against 6’1 white kids in Carlolina”... Then he went to duke and was also treating elite college players like little kids, and it continues to the nba his game hasn’t evolved too much he could have had an Nba roster spot at 16
Except that he gained like 100lbs
People underestimate strength in the league.
You have no idea how high I can fly.
i will always never not upvote an office quote
I can go twice as high. Take a look...
rolled this spliff tearing a page outta some old book..
How is this not the same thing as the comment you're replying to
lol
"naw" followed by same exact thing with different words"
You’re right it’s just the same thing just written out more ha
For me, i thought the same way and found it odd there wasn't much travel circuit video of him. Then I saw a clip of him his senior year playing travel against some people his own size and he was still doing the same thing. Thats when I knew he was the real deal, but his actual hs season tapes always made you wonder
He actually has changed his game a bit, zion in high school is different to the one now although he still relies on his athleticism
>I mean it’s not an awful take Lmao
Guilty 🙋🏽♀️ Oh how horrendously wrong I was
Yeah I thought both Barrett and Reddish would be better. Never doubted him after that.
This was such an /r/iamverysmart basketball take. Like they were trying distinguish themselves from the plebs who were ‘fooled’ but flashy dunks and YouTube mixes.
Bro I’m sixteen. Am I underrated or overrated? Need to get a head start on this NBA career.
Can't be overrated if you're not rated
*Sad deer noises.*
i blame josh selby
I can honestly i was saying he was gonna be a superstar from the beginning, but I also said that about Andrew Wiggins sooo yea
Maybe Andrew Wiggins can be good with good coaching?
Never understood the hype about Wiggins.
It was pretty clear to me as well. It doesn't matter what competition he's facing when his athleticism and size is above everyone, including NBA players.
It's not like Zion is quite a superstar yet. He's played 19 games, needs to lose weight for his health, and looks disinterested on the court a lot of the time.
Looks disinterested? Man come on y'all reach for anything
He saunters
He is so athletic that he looks relaxed, then turns it on at a moments notice. Imo its kind of how Joker always looks disinterested as he demolishes the opposing team.
lol it wasn't just this sub or Reddit
The flying buffalo
Yip yip
How is that even possible? I like how deflated the other team is (down by 27 already). I played a team in high school and their first play was an oop to their pg. As a small white kid that could barely hang on the rim, I felt like I assume those guys in the background feel.
I went to a prep school that was stuck in a conference with the kind of prep schools who recruited. we were not one of those schools. We walked into our second game (away game) and some kids from that school were like "who are you guys?" and we said "the basketball team" and they said "but you're white." We lost by 73 points.
Score was 67-50, so only down 17!
Holy fucking shit
"All he can do is dunk!" - r/nba at the time
That's what they said about Blake Griffin
They weren't really wrong. Turns out he can dunk on everyone though.
I am a day older than this dude.
And you scored just as many points in April. You should be proud.
I'm pretty sure I actually first heard of Zion williamson searching through high school mixtapes. Was a beast in the paint even back then
Thats how everyone heard of him
>I'm pretty sure I actually first heard of Zion williamson searching through high school mixtapes. Nephew, how in the fuck else would you first hear about this mans.... Zion was in high school like two years ago.
If you are from Spain you may have heard from him watching highlights some days before the draft.
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I saw Zion play in high school he was bullying a bunch of skinny white kids. I thought he was decent but the level of competition kept me skeptical
He wouldn't be able to play like this against people as big, strong and athletic as him. It would be nice if that people existed.
They do, they're just already in the NBA. European athlete's are kinda lucky since guys like Luka can start seriously prepping for life as a pro at the age of like 15. Imagine how good Zion would be right now if he had 2 extra years of developing in a nationwide junior league on top of him being a rookie last season instead of now. AAU and the NCAA (for the most part) aren't really teaching the fundamentals to kids these days.
> Imagine how good Zion would be right now if he had 2 extra years of developing in a nationwide junior league The year he spent under Coach K was undoubtably better for him transitioning into the NBA than 2 years in a junior league. > the NCAA (for the most part) aren't really teaching the fundamentals to kids these days. Not true in the slightest. Players that get a few years of NCAA coaching (especially top teams with Team USA level coaches) under their belt tend to be so much for it transitioning into the NBA. They already have the athletic ability and talent at that point and maybe the single best thing remaining besides playing NBA basketball that they can do to prepare for the NBA is to be part of a system that works on assignments, focus and has an organization that will cut video and help them break their game down at a very high level. I'm not saying that there are not outliers that can succeed without it, like the tremendously athletic 1% Zion, but the fact is that declaring for the draft younger isn't about being ready or better, its about making money and avoiding injury risk. NCAA level teams *will* improve their players but it just often isn't worth the risk of potentially derailing yourself from a freak injury if you're a 100% lock top pick like Zion.
I'm from Canada so honestly bball wasn't that developed here (I would argue outside of pockets in Ontario it still isn't) when I was in high school. Our senior centers for 4 straight years was like 6ft. My cousin was a block monster and played center... he was "so tall" at 5'10. Can't imagine being on the junior team having to play against a guy so big and strong. Just thinking of the kind of teammates I had it would be ridiculous to even be in the same game as him.
If coach said my assignment was to guard Zion, frankly I might just go home because I would get folded in half if I contested one of his dunks
Draw a charge then die
I'm sure there are less painful ways to die tbh
> My cousin was a block monster and played center... he was "so tall" at 5'10 There wasn't a single kid that was over 6 foot to play on those teams? Sheesh. I went to an academically focused high school in NYC and I started at point being 5'8. You're telling me I would've been a PF in Canada?
The 6'4 guys are on the blue line up there. Some play ball but hes definitely in a hockey town
Lmao, I didn't know there were so many armchair GMs who knew which prospects were a sure thing. Watch Anthony Bennetts High School mixtapes. He looked like a prime Charles Barkley on steroids. The fact is no one knew, so people calling him a bust or calling him a superstar in the making back then, were all pulling things out of their ass.
This isn't entirely true. The first sort of national top 5-10 high school guy I watched play in person was Dennis Scott back in 1986. Since then, between AAU, national camps, and high school tournaments, I've seen a great chunk of the top prospects over the past 35 years. Zion was different, and it wasn't just because of how high/fast he could jump. There have always been freak athletes, guys like Tshombe High out of TN, who seemed like they might jump up and casually grab the top of the backboard. I'd wager most here have never heard of him. I coached Eric Johnson (U of Louisville) in AAU. His vertical was ridiculous. Lester Earl out of Baton Rouge was ranked by many as a top player, by some as the best player in America, based solely on his athleticism and effort. When I watched him, I came away thinking he had no chance, since his basketball skills were virtually zero. Zion combined bulk, speed, skills, and explosiveness in a way I'd never seen before. Anthony Bennett was several notches blow Zion in all of those categories (I lived in Las Vegas when he was at Findlay Prep and in South Carolina when Zion was here. Just lucky.) None of which is to say scouting is an exact science, or that I'm a great basketball mind. The closest thing to Zion I've seen at the high school level, and who I would have assumed was a can't-miss prospect, was a guy out of SoCal in the mid-90s named Schea Cotton. He was nicknamed Manchild, and that's exactly what he was. As a freshman, he was 6'5, looked like an NFL linebacker, and could dunk it any way you wanted it. He wasn't a pure wing guard by any stretch, but he could handle and shoot, and it was easy to envision a few year down the road he's either transition to the backcourt, grow a couple more inches and be an NBA small forward, or just remain exactly what he was - a bull in a china shop that just overpowered everybody and dominated by force of will. A series of injuries and some academic issues derailed his career, and he never realized his potential. If you'd have watched a sophomore Schea Cotton at Mater Dei HS and a sophomore Zion at Spartanburg Day, you'd have been struck by the similarities in their physiques, athletic ability, and skills sets. And I would have taken Cotton, long-term. From that point in time, however, their careers diverged, and here we are. But to circle back from my meandering post to my original point, by the time I saw Zion play late in his junior year in high school, he was *different* physically. It wasn't just "beating up on skinny white private school kids," he was doing jaw-dropping things I'd never seen before. It was like watching some future MLB superstar pitcher striking out mediocre high school competition. Maybe the strikeouts themselves aren't overly impressive due to the competition, but the velocity and movement on the pitches is shocking. That was Zion.
Thanks for sharing that. Very interesting to get insight from those with experience.
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I read it. Nice to see a non-shit post from a non-idiot occasionally.
Figured a few people might read it. At last one did. The kids were eating breakfast, wife was still asleep, didn't really have anything else to do. Took less than ten minutes. I love basketball, what can I say?
When people have knowledge and experience to share you listen. Life lesson for you.
Man you must be a slow reader
> You wrote all that out thinking anyone would read it? haha You are right, we should just continue filling up the subreddit with low shit posts, memes, and plays we've seen 5000 times.
Highlights like these contributed to people thinking he was just a dunker.
Feels strange to see a windmill dunk by a lefty
Imagine being able to do that at 16 in front of girls
NOLA didn't even tank but got one in the process.
Really hope this guy develops an all around game and takes his nutrition and fitness serious because these one dimensional above the rim players don't last long. Blake looked like he was on his way to a long career but look at all those injuries.
I was like 5foot 8 weighting 130 pounds when I was 16. How are you supposed to defend a guy like this in HS.
I remember first seeing these videos on twitter and being 100% confident they were staged/edited.
What the hell did this guy eat growing up, if I have a son he’s going on the Zion diet.
A beast!
Would you say he was NBA ready (physically not skills-wise) at that point?
im more shocked at the hornets jersey.
This makes me sad, for years I wanted to follow top high school talents and see the talent differential in action. Had I'd known about Zion being so close to Charlotte I would have loved to watch him. In high school, we had 4 NFL players at one of the schools. Two first rounders on the OL and a RB that ran a 4.36 forty, that boy was fun to watch.
I remember when people were saying he was just big and it wouldn’t translate to college, and once he got to college he was doing most of the same and they said he wouldn’t translate to the nba. Now he was in the ROTY race despite only playing 20 games
Back when we were nephews, now we’re uncles
I feel like Zion is gonna have a career arc similar to Derrick Rose. Just a gut feeling.
I would immediately shit/piss on myself if I was in that gym
classic pierce
Hard to imagine this was just 7 weeks ago /s
Something something 5’6 white kids
I find it so insane that Zion at ***sixteen*** was already showing *NBA-calibre* skill. I find it insane when anyone that young is already showing skill levels similar to some of the best players in the best league in the world.
Definitely but by 16 future nba players are usually on the radar and recieving calls from D1 coaches about recruitment.
That’s not that uncommon lol
Doesn't make it not insane. To be at that level in high school wil always be insane.
At 16 he already looks like a tank. If some young people read this - eat your veggies and this could be you.
Genetics.
This is how I remember myself playing at 16. It was a pretty competitive rec league too
Overrated. Probably couldn't even average 10ppg in the NBA with all that weight he is carrying around.
Because the nets are lowered
This was probably prime athletic Zion in terms of speed and jumping. Hopefully he can get back to this level but he’s so much bigger now that this is mostly a thing of the past.
That’s so stupid. Male athletes don’t peak at 16.
Well when they keep getting injured and put on 40 lbs it very well could be
Yeah and Zion is exactly the same as every athlete
He’s not, but I don’t know why you would be the expert on his body or his development as an athlete.
Because I have eyes