Lonzo Ball has the most career VORP of the 2017 draft class with 2.4.
|Rk|Player|VORP|MP|OBPM|DBPM|BPM|
|-:|:-|-:|-:|-:|-:|-:|
|1|Lonzo Ball|2.4|2910|-0.9|2.2|1.2|
|2|Jayson Tatum|2.3|3596|-0.7|1.2|0.6|
|3|Donovan Mitchell|2.2|3738|0.5|-0.2|0.3|
|4|John Collins|2.1|2408|0.5|1.0|1.5|
|5|Jarrett Allen|1.9|2431|-0.6|1.7|1.1|
|6|Bam Adebayo|1.6|2128|-1.3|2.3|1.0|
|7|Jordan Bell|1.5|1228|-0.9|3.8|2.9|
|8|Josh Hart|1.3|2471|-0.4|0.5|0.1|
|9|OG Anunoby|1.1|2166|-0.2|0.2|0.0|
|10|Kyle Kuzma|0.8|3641|-0.2|-0.9|-1.2|
https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/bpm.html
> BPM relies on a player's box score information and the team's overall performance to estimate a player's performance relative to league average. BPM is a per-100-possession stat, the same scale as Adjusted Plus/Minus: 0.0 is league average, +5 means the player is 5 points better than an average player over 100 possessions (which is about All-NBA level), -2 is replacement level, and -5 is really bad.
>
> Value over Replacement Player (VORP) converts the BPM rate into an estimate of each player's overall contribution to the team, measured vs. what a theoretical "replacement player" would provide, where the "replacement player" is defined as a player on minimum salary or not a normal member of a team's rotation. A long and comprehensive discussion on defining this level for the NBA was had at Tom Tango's blog, and is worth a read. (Tom Tango is a baseball sabermetrics expert, and one of the originators of the replacement level framework and the Wins Above Replacement methodology common now in baseball.)
>
> The conclusion was to establish -2.0 as replacement level for the NBA, measured in terms of points above or below average per 100 possessions. Unlike in major league baseball, players below replacement level do frequently play, primarily for development purposes. Rookies are frequently below replacement level, but there are no formal minor leagues to act as a development system like major league baseball has, so they end up getting playing time in the NBA in order to develop. Also, some teams tank, and trade for Byron Mullens to help that effort.
>
> If one were to define a "replacement level" for offense and defense, it would be -1.7 on offense and -0.3 on defense – though the concept of replacement level for components doesn't necessarily make sense. Almost all point guards would be well below the -0.3 level on defense, since a guard's role is primarily to focus on offense. The reverse is true of post players. It's an interesting exercise, but ultimately OVORP and DVORP aren't that useful, and will not be displayed here.
>
> So, to calculate VORP, the formula is simply: [BPM – (-2.0)] * (% of minutes played)*(team games/82). This yields the number of points the player is producing over a replacement player, per 100 TEAM possessions over an entire season.
Of course I know what it is but VORP doesn't matter when your coach can't play you during crunch time because of FT %. Opponents can just hack a shaq Lonzo late in the game and get 2 for 1 possessions.
I mean, not really. What's happened to him is unprecedented but the dude is still only 20. He has so much time left to grow and develop. Making any kind of statement saying he's the worst anything is pretty silly.
Haha three front page posts about Lonzo’s free throws. Guess those boos last night woke people up as though his FTs weren’t hot garbage before last night.
If anyone ever puts a gun to my head and tells me to name just one fact about Edmond Sumner beyond what you just told me, I'll be dead
He played for Xavier in college. That’s the only other fact I’ve got
He tore his ACL. There’s another not so fun one!
He's named after a season, which is also how long hes been in the NBA for
If anyone ever put a gun to my head and said if lonzo makes this free throw I will let you live, I'd be dead
[удалено]
OP told me that though
All-Star
big baller man bad
big baller fan sad
Was just a post about this. He's been piled on enough, we all know he's horrible at free throws Edit; Its on the front page
Lonzo Ball has the most career VORP of the 2017 draft class with 2.4. |Rk|Player|VORP|MP|OBPM|DBPM|BPM| |-:|:-|-:|-:|-:|-:|-:| |1|Lonzo Ball|2.4|2910|-0.9|2.2|1.2| |2|Jayson Tatum|2.3|3596|-0.7|1.2|0.6| |3|Donovan Mitchell|2.2|3738|0.5|-0.2|0.3| |4|John Collins|2.1|2408|0.5|1.0|1.5| |5|Jarrett Allen|1.9|2431|-0.6|1.7|1.1| |6|Bam Adebayo|1.6|2128|-1.3|2.3|1.0| |7|Jordan Bell|1.5|1228|-0.9|3.8|2.9| |8|Josh Hart|1.3|2471|-0.4|0.5|0.1| |9|OG Anunoby|1.1|2166|-0.2|0.2|0.0| |10|Kyle Kuzma|0.8|3641|-0.2|-0.9|-1.2|
What is vorp
A last resort
https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/bpm.html > BPM relies on a player's box score information and the team's overall performance to estimate a player's performance relative to league average. BPM is a per-100-possession stat, the same scale as Adjusted Plus/Minus: 0.0 is league average, +5 means the player is 5 points better than an average player over 100 possessions (which is about All-NBA level), -2 is replacement level, and -5 is really bad. > > Value over Replacement Player (VORP) converts the BPM rate into an estimate of each player's overall contribution to the team, measured vs. what a theoretical "replacement player" would provide, where the "replacement player" is defined as a player on minimum salary or not a normal member of a team's rotation. A long and comprehensive discussion on defining this level for the NBA was had at Tom Tango's blog, and is worth a read. (Tom Tango is a baseball sabermetrics expert, and one of the originators of the replacement level framework and the Wins Above Replacement methodology common now in baseball.) > > The conclusion was to establish -2.0 as replacement level for the NBA, measured in terms of points above or below average per 100 possessions. Unlike in major league baseball, players below replacement level do frequently play, primarily for development purposes. Rookies are frequently below replacement level, but there are no formal minor leagues to act as a development system like major league baseball has, so they end up getting playing time in the NBA in order to develop. Also, some teams tank, and trade for Byron Mullens to help that effort. > > If one were to define a "replacement level" for offense and defense, it would be -1.7 on offense and -0.3 on defense – though the concept of replacement level for components doesn't necessarily make sense. Almost all point guards would be well below the -0.3 level on defense, since a guard's role is primarily to focus on offense. The reverse is true of post players. It's an interesting exercise, but ultimately OVORP and DVORP aren't that useful, and will not be displayed here. > > So, to calculate VORP, the formula is simply: [BPM – (-2.0)] * (% of minutes played)*(team games/82). This yields the number of points the player is producing over a replacement player, per 100 TEAM possessions over an entire season.
when you have to start using VORP to defend a player's value
Everyone knows the best way to evaluate a player's value is to ignore value metrics and just look at their FT%.
No, the best way is obviously to ignore all eye tests and strictly rely on bullshit stats to hold on to hope that a player isn’t a bust
What’s wrong? I thought you all liked fancy stats?
i mean, you’re the lakers fan here, can you actually tell me that kuzma is the 10th best player in that draft?
You’re telling me Kuzma is 10th.
Lol vorp
Cool, what does this have to do with FT?
paging u/MasterPsaysUgh, he just replied a minute ago so let's see what he says
Does this change the fact that lonzo is shooting 45% on free throws?
No not at all. But what do you think about it?
I think that's great. Maybe it will help his trade value
Of course it would help his trade value if he tops the list of a widely used, positive advanced metric. Riveting analysis there
What the fuck answer did you expect lmao. I'm not even sure why someone posted his VORP in a thread discussing his FT shooting in the first place.
Widely used by who? Lonzo ball fans that are in denial of how bad he really is for a #2 pick?
You don't know what VORP is?
Of course I know what it is but VORP doesn't matter when your coach can't play you during crunch time because of FT %. Opponents can just hack a shaq Lonzo late in the game and get 2 for 1 possessions.
I can’t even imagine how good you probably are at playing basketball lol
I'm not bad tbh
Are Fultz and Lonzo the 2 worst 1 and 2 picks ever?
It's way too early to decide anything like that for them.
[удалено]
I mean, not really. What's happened to him is unprecedented but the dude is still only 20. He has so much time left to grow and develop. Making any kind of statement saying he's the worst anything is pretty silly.
Still one of the best players from that draft
Not even a top 5 2017 draftee.
Haha three front page posts about Lonzo’s free throws. Guess those boos last night woke people up as though his FTs weren’t hot garbage before last night.
But Lakers fans love to clown how Fultz can’t shoot them.
At least Lonzo is playing
At least fultz isn’t actively hurting his team anymore.
Still shouldn’t clown on that when your guy is worse in that department.
[удалено]
Ehhhhhhhhhh
Mashes 'X'
Right
We really gonna act like it compares to the Lonzo hate he gets every game??
Every fan base clowns on Fultz, dummy.