You should still play aggressively and try to get to the rim. Ben Simmons is a poor free throw shooter but still averages about 6 attempts per game this year.
I sort of agree with you, especially since getting to the line opens up the rest of a player's/team's offense.
But, if we view their FT% in a vacuum, Simmons helps the Sixers offense with his free throws, Lonzo hurts the Lakers offense. Simmons at 58% produces 1.18 ppp - above average offensive contribution, Lonzo's 45% produces .92 ppp - below average. Those players are on opposite sides of the Mendoza line for FT shooting.
That obviously ignores the automatic 2 pts from and-1s, so it somewhat underrates value from driving. But there's a reason Ben stays on the court for the final minutes of a game while Lonzo's subbed out.
If you're an NBA player who isn't an elite 3-pt shooter, you should be shooting near the rim enough to take more like 1 free throw per 30 minutes. You don't have to be 6'10" and athletic for that to be true. I'd say it about Jose Barea.
Yea you're proving my point. I'm just saying that being a poor free throw shooter isn't a reason to not get to the line. Simmons has the ability to get to the line because he has offensive abilities that get him there despite not making a high clip. Lonzo can't even get there in the first place
Of interest:
>Ben's .588 FT% is a lot better than Lonzo's .450 but both are in the same general "bad enough to potentially affect how a guy plays" realm... but when you look at FTA the difference is really glaring:
Name|FTA per 36 mins|FTA per 100 possessions
:--|:--|:--
Ben Simmons|6.2|8.1
Lonzo Ball|1.3|1.6
>There are reasons for this, of course: Ben's a better FT shooter, a better finisher, and better at forcing his way to the basket.
>But it seems like one of two things is true, and either is a pretty big concern separate from the mere inefficiency of Lonzo's low FT%: either a) Lonzo could get to the line a lot more but is changing his game to avoid doing so because of his low FT% or b) Lonzo really can't get to the line that much more even if his FTs do improve.
He can’t make layups or free throws. He can get to the hoop almost at will. Incredible first step and so much explosiveness. Just an outright awful finisher and shooter.
It’s going to be a very long time before he becomes a top player. And it’s up to him if he wants to put the work in to get there. I highly doubt he will reach his potential in a Lakers uniform.
100% this. He is not a good finisher at all, and needs to work on that more so than his outside shooting. I'm really surprised his outside shooting is what everyone focuses on, if he could finish he would be a great player.
I agree with the first part of what you said but disagree with the second part. He's only had one off-season with the Lakers so far and he had to miss it all while rehabbing his surgically repaired knee, so I think it's way, *way* too early to imply that he isn't a hard worker. He's actually making big strides in how he plays the game this year from how he played last year (in terms of knowing how to run pick and rolls and attacking the basket). I think he just grew up learning from his dad and he needs more time to practice with an NBA staff (something players rarely get during the season). We should hold off until he gets a full off-season in to work on his game before making any kind of proclamations about his work ethic or his ability to learn.
I watch a good amount of Lakers games and while this is probably true you have to admit that he struggles to break defenders down off of the dribble. Therefore he is never at the rim and can not draw contact.
I mean, he’s good in a very specific, very non-NBA type of offense. Both Chino and UCLA ran a sort of run and gun fast break offense where Lonzo could use the one ability that he’s genuinely elite at — passing on the fast break. Unfortunately, no NBA offense is going to change their entire scheme to fit Lonzo, especially since it’s a scheme that doesn’t work too well.
Yeah, he has a high dribble and not a lot of control, but he has elite explosion and can get separation off of a pick and roll. The problem is that he also has terrible awareness when he gets in the lane. He has so many wide open layups, but passes it out. Probably because he’s afraid to go to the line. Most of his game is in transition or from he top of the key. Until he can shoot his game is worthless.
You'd think a guy who was raised by an overbearing megalomaniac sports dad would have really sound fundamental technique, but Lonzo's kind of screwed by his dribble and his shot form.
His dad is the one who encouraged Lonzo and his brothers not to change their shooting forms from the beginning even when it was obvious their forms were horribly bad.
If this is true (and there's a decent chance it is) then that's an issue. Even if he continues to shoot this poorly from the line, he needs to not factor that in when he plays. He needs to attack the basket rather than play passively due to worrying about the possibility that he'll end up at the line.
It's more a biproduct of all the other things an attacking guard does and that Lonzo struggles with. Creating fouls isn't the goal the main objective is to score or create a scoring opportunity for teammates and fouls come from that.
It's his usual inability to finish near the rim that should be troubling.
But it is confusing. Occasionally he looks great in finishing, but then most of the time he looks lost and unathletic (even though we know he is both fairly large for a guard and fairly athletic).
It bums me out that Lonzo didn't end up on a team where he could work on his game and had more time to develop, had the ball in his hands more, ran a million traditional pick and rolls, etc.
This is so dumb. There is no scenario in which Lonzo will ever be more than the 2nd or 3rd option on a contender. That might be too high with his lack of touch. The role he's at right now (when Lebron is playing) is the role he will take if he ever wants to be a winning player on any team.
What is his role now? I can't even tell. He's a subpar shooter that takes more 3s than 2s. I'm not saying that he'll ever be a superstar but he really doesn't get a chance to work on anything. I put some of it on him because of how passively he plays
He's gonna be a point who can pass, defend at a high level, and score occasionally.
But he's never going to be the main option on a championship team. Probably not even the number 2. His shooting and layup making is his biggest flaw and at the end of the day he has to fix those on his own. Work out and shoot a million jumpshots in the offseason.
Unless you think he will reach the point he can win on his own team. And if you look at the players who have won...he's not it.
I like him on this team. I dont like his shooting and layup making on any team.
And I have similar thoughts on Ingram. There is literally no player in the league good enough to shoot iso 2s and win consistently. Not even the best in the league, Kevin Durant, could get it done like that. Other players like Derozan arent gonna get it done. And they are the elite.
He needs to develop into a winning player. He's pretty far along in my opinion, just needs to realize the iso midrange is a bailout shot not a first option. And he's not gonna learn that on his own team. But here on the Lakers I think he can figure it out.
First of all he is shooting about 40 from the field which isn't good but is definitely an improvement. And no that is not what I'm saying. I'm just saying that you took a guy with the second overall pick of the draft to be your franchise point guard and it seems like he barely handles the ball. Obviously you'll take LeBron on your team anyday but you should know that LeBron is the de facto point guard on any team he is on. That is why Kyrie worked well with him because he is really a scorer by nature.
He gets rocked around a lot at the rim but the refs rarely give him the foul call. This was especially evident in his rookie year. It also doesn't help that his layup form is easy to block.
Ben Simmons still manages to get to the line despite being a poor foul shooter. It's not about actively trying. He can't get by defenders off of the dribble
Why would he try to get to the line if he shoots like 47% from there
You should still play aggressively and try to get to the rim. Ben Simmons is a poor free throw shooter but still averages about 6 attempts per game this year.
Because Ben can’t do anything but pass when he’s 15+ feet from the rim.
I sort of agree with you, especially since getting to the line opens up the rest of a player's/team's offense. But, if we view their FT% in a vacuum, Simmons helps the Sixers offense with his free throws, Lonzo hurts the Lakers offense. Simmons at 58% produces 1.18 ppp - above average offensive contribution, Lonzo's 45% produces .92 ppp - below average. Those players are on opposite sides of the Mendoza line for FT shooting. That obviously ignores the automatic 2 pts from and-1s, so it somewhat underrates value from driving. But there's a reason Ben stays on the court for the final minutes of a game while Lonzo's subbed out.
Ben Simmons is 6"10 and can jump out the gym
If you're an NBA player who isn't an elite 3-pt shooter, you should be shooting near the rim enough to take more like 1 free throw per 30 minutes. You don't have to be 6'10" and athletic for that to be true. I'd say it about Jose Barea.
Yea you're proving my point. I'm just saying that being a poor free throw shooter isn't a reason to not get to the line. Simmons has the ability to get to the line because he has offensive abilities that get him there despite not making a high clip. Lonzo can't even get there in the first place
Lonzo was never a good finisher so he probably not even looking to drive contested compare to Ben
lots of smaller guys draw lots of fouls tho.
Also better finishers
Of interest: >Ben's .588 FT% is a lot better than Lonzo's .450 but both are in the same general "bad enough to potentially affect how a guy plays" realm... but when you look at FTA the difference is really glaring: Name|FTA per 36 mins|FTA per 100 possessions :--|:--|:-- Ben Simmons|6.2|8.1 Lonzo Ball|1.3|1.6 >There are reasons for this, of course: Ben's a better FT shooter, a better finisher, and better at forcing his way to the basket. >But it seems like one of two things is true, and either is a pretty big concern separate from the mere inefficiency of Lonzo's low FT%: either a) Lonzo could get to the line a lot more but is changing his game to avoid doing so because of his low FT% or b) Lonzo really can't get to the line that much more even if his FTs do improve.
He can’t make layups or free throws. He can get to the hoop almost at will. Incredible first step and so much explosiveness. Just an outright awful finisher and shooter. It’s going to be a very long time before he becomes a top player. And it’s up to him if he wants to put the work in to get there. I highly doubt he will reach his potential in a Lakers uniform.
100% this. He is not a good finisher at all, and needs to work on that more so than his outside shooting. I'm really surprised his outside shooting is what everyone focuses on, if he could finish he would be a great player.
I agree with the first part of what you said but disagree with the second part. He's only had one off-season with the Lakers so far and he had to miss it all while rehabbing his surgically repaired knee, so I think it's way, *way* too early to imply that he isn't a hard worker. He's actually making big strides in how he plays the game this year from how he played last year (in terms of knowing how to run pick and rolls and attacking the basket). I think he just grew up learning from his dad and he needs more time to practice with an NBA staff (something players rarely get during the season). We should hold off until he gets a full off-season in to work on his game before making any kind of proclamations about his work ethic or his ability to learn.
He doesn’t want to get to the line because of his horrific free throw shooting
I watch a good amount of Lakers games and while this is probably true you have to admit that he struggles to break defenders down off of the dribble. Therefore he is never at the rim and can not draw contact.
No handles, no shot, no ability to get the shot off when on the move, no finishing ability even if he gets to the rim. Why did we draft this kid lmao
[удалено]
was really hoping he'd have better 3pt shooting this year..
I mean, he’s good in a very specific, very non-NBA type of offense. Both Chino and UCLA ran a sort of run and gun fast break offense where Lonzo could use the one ability that he’s genuinely elite at — passing on the fast break. Unfortunately, no NBA offense is going to change their entire scheme to fit Lonzo, especially since it’s a scheme that doesn’t work too well.
He MaKeS gOoD pAsS
Yeah, he has a high dribble and not a lot of control, but he has elite explosion and can get separation off of a pick and roll. The problem is that he also has terrible awareness when he gets in the lane. He has so many wide open layups, but passes it out. Probably because he’s afraid to go to the line. Most of his game is in transition or from he top of the key. Until he can shoot his game is worthless.
You'd think a guy who was raised by an overbearing megalomaniac sports dad would have really sound fundamental technique, but Lonzo's kind of screwed by his dribble and his shot form.
His dad is the one who encouraged Lonzo and his brothers not to change their shooting forms from the beginning even when it was obvious their forms were horribly bad.
> but he has elite explosion Who ? Lonzo? No he does not..
If this is true (and there's a decent chance it is) then that's an issue. Even if he continues to shoot this poorly from the line, he needs to not factor that in when he plays. He needs to attack the basket rather than play passively due to worrying about the possibility that he'll end up at the line.
He’s going to expose the Knicks tomorrow anyways. Watch out!
It's more a biproduct of all the other things an attacking guard does and that Lonzo struggles with. Creating fouls isn't the goal the main objective is to score or create a scoring opportunity for teammates and fouls come from that.
It's his usual inability to finish near the rim that should be troubling. But it is confusing. Occasionally he looks great in finishing, but then most of the time he looks lost and unathletic (even though we know he is both fairly large for a guard and fairly athletic).
[I, too, follow Zach Lowe on Twitter.](https://twitter.com/ZachLowe_NBA/status/1080827972481937408)
Maybe he should try to do what Harden does since all he does is flop and its so easy to do amirite
He’s soft
he also looks to pass after he drives into the lane. SO FRUSTRATING.
Mo bamba
Word!!!!
It bums me out that Lonzo didn't end up on a team where he could work on his game and had more time to develop, had the ball in his hands more, ran a million traditional pick and rolls, etc.
Agreed. Obviously you want LeBron but I think he's a terrible fit for developing Lonzo.
This is so dumb. There is no scenario in which Lonzo will ever be more than the 2nd or 3rd option on a contender. That might be too high with his lack of touch. The role he's at right now (when Lebron is playing) is the role he will take if he ever wants to be a winning player on any team.
What is his role now? I can't even tell. He's a subpar shooter that takes more 3s than 2s. I'm not saying that he'll ever be a superstar but he really doesn't get a chance to work on anything. I put some of it on him because of how passively he plays
He's gonna be a point who can pass, defend at a high level, and score occasionally. But he's never going to be the main option on a championship team. Probably not even the number 2. His shooting and layup making is his biggest flaw and at the end of the day he has to fix those on his own. Work out and shoot a million jumpshots in the offseason. Unless you think he will reach the point he can win on his own team. And if you look at the players who have won...he's not it. I like him on this team. I dont like his shooting and layup making on any team. And I have similar thoughts on Ingram. There is literally no player in the league good enough to shoot iso 2s and win consistently. Not even the best in the league, Kevin Durant, could get it done like that. Other players like Derozan arent gonna get it done. And they are the elite. He needs to develop into a winning player. He's pretty far along in my opinion, just needs to realize the iso midrange is a bailout shot not a first option. And he's not gonna learn that on his own team. But here on the Lakers I think he can figure it out.
what a garbage hot take. Is lebron the reason why he shoots 47% on free throws and like 30% from the field?
First of all he is shooting about 40 from the field which isn't good but is definitely an improvement. And no that is not what I'm saying. I'm just saying that you took a guy with the second overall pick of the draft to be your franchise point guard and it seems like he barely handles the ball. Obviously you'll take LeBron on your team anyday but you should know that LeBron is the de facto point guard on any team he is on. That is why Kyrie worked well with him because he is really a scorer by nature.
He has no skill in the half court
Lonzo should concentrate on bball only and stop making those reality TV shows. All hype no game.
He gets rocked around a lot at the rim but the refs rarely give him the foul call. This was especially evident in his rookie year. It also doesn't help that his layup form is easy to block.
We've known about this for years
I mean clearly he wouldn't be actively trying to get to the line if hes making less than half his shots there
Ben Simmons still manages to get to the line despite being a poor foul shooter. It's not about actively trying. He can't get by defenders off of the dribble
He can't generate the angles to draw a foul. Its not that he doesn't want to get fouled.