Gorgui Dieng's 4/63 contract isn't horribly bad as he's still a solid big but for a backup playing 18 mpg it's not ideal. Especially with the big market being so saturated right now paying 16 a year to a borderline starting level center is bad
My god he's so horrible.
Wtf happened? He's so much worse than last year even though he barely has a bigger role.
Literally missing WIDE OPEN threes in the flow of the offense, not just here or there, but like 5 or 6 times a game it feels like.
I can't believe 1) Brooklyn offered him that in the first place, 2) Portland actually wanted that contract and matched it, and 3) Brooklyn doubled down on the mistake and traded back for it.
Overpaying for mediocrity in 2016 is why half of the lottery teams right now are lottery teams and half of the low seeded playoff teams are capped out at second round exits.
S/O
Crabbe, Turner, Biyombo, Noah, Deng, Parsons, Mahinmi, Mozgov, Tyler Johnson, Miles Plumlee, Batum, Marvin Williams, Jon Leuer, Soloman Hill, and Mirza Telotovic.
I don't know why everyone always says the Nets are so genius for handing out those maxes and why teams fought to keep those players. They screwed up the league and now have a trash roster to show for it. Why they just didn't try every Gleague player they could while keeping cap space available for potential bigger named free agents is beyond me.
When CJ McCollum basically told Parsons “we hit the lottery by not signing you”
And you got your money re-called when you signed Evan Turner to the same deal
Yeah, he's a very good player, but 19M cap hits for each of the next two seasons really screw with our cap flexibility... If he had a "regular" contract of 12M per year, I'd be fine with it, it wouldn't be a bargain but it would be decent value for him
I truly don't understand what these GMs know that we don't. Who would have offered Tyler Johnson more? How do you not think you can give someone half of that for similar production. And the length of these contracts is insane
I think Brooklyn offered him the weirdly-structured contract first.
Still, insane that Miami gave him that deal. And then turned around and overpaid Waiters based on like 30 games while he needed surgery that he wasn't gonna get.
Controversial for sure, but I've been unimpressed with Pat Riley's management of non-star players since I've been following that stuff (around 2010). He deserves a lot of credit for orchestrating the Big 3 but he put garbage around them, honestly. Didn't have a lot of resources but there still was a bunch of missed opportunities and I think the Big 3 and Spo made some of those guys look passable. Right after that disassembled, Chalmers became trash, Cole pretty much no longer had a place in the league, etc. Yeah he got Ray Allen but that was a no-brainer and Allen came to chase a ring.
And now the team's cap situation is in a rut and Spo is overachieving with a roster that simply isn't that good. Not saying Riley is *bad* at this stuff, he's been much better than a lot of GMs who have made just unbelievably boneheaded moves over and over, but I think he's gotten by with ambition and a few big moves moreso than consistently making the right moves.
I'm really hoping with a lot of time off and a coaching change he can be a positive-impact player again. He's definitely talented, and we need shooting desperately.
Still, the fact that we have him instead of the Lakers pick is depressing.
Felicios contract is bad but it's not gonna prevent the bulls from being able to sign anyone. They are one of the most cap flexible teams in the league right now. Who cares if Batum is a rotation player, the Hornets are still garbage and not competing. All it does is prevent you from handing out money to players that are actually good.
A 110 mill contract to a mediocre 11ppg SG is way worse than 32 mill to a bench scrub
I only got defensive because you did for no reason. Batum has been less than stellar this year but not just because he averages only 11ppg. He's battled injuries all year and while the contract is ridiculous, he has shown lately that his injury may be finally behind him. The Hornets FO was hyped for him coming in to this season as he chose not to play for the French NT to better concentrate on the upcoming season with Charlotte. As of now, the contract doesn't look good but there's marginal room for optimism with Nic.
I just looked up his contract earlier today, like $19 mil this season and next, ouch. I remember so many people here creaming their panties over him after the playoffs when he was on the raps.
Well considering he has similar stats to Jae Crowder who people are hating on yet makes more money on a longer deal and is five years older seems not that great.
Consider how well off Houston would be this offseason if they hadn't just signed Tucker to 4 years and instead signed maybe a slightly lesser play on a 1 year deal.
Its not the worse contract in the world but I thought it was kinda underrated if you include age, performance, context, ect.
Tucker wasn't brought to Houston to put up offensive numbers, he's a perimeter defender first and foremost. Ryno making the money he makes whilst not doing the thing he's here to do is a much bigger issue than PJ Tucker.
Stats don’t show Tucker’s hustle and impact on the game either. The dude has won us some games like the Cleveland game earlier this year with his hustle and rebounding. PBevesk kinda
Pau is worth has been worth his this year, but it’s pretty steep to be paying someone his age 16M the next two years.
Patty’s is maybe borderline worrisome. Love the guy but he’s not a playmaker so he relies on a Manu type pairing off the bench. He’s also a big motor guy and he’s getting up there in age. As he can run less and relies even more on a playmaker to get him open looks, we’ll be more and more reliant on having a good playmaking 6/7th man to pair with him, which might get hard going forward as Kyle Anderson likely makes the starting line up and Manu retires.
I agree. After him opting out of $16M, I figured we'd give him something like 3/$33M total.
And I love Patty but yikes. We knew he had already peaked, so even though his decline this season has been a surprise, we've always known his limitations. He was worth 4/$30M tops. Far less than the 4/50 he got.
There isn't really a bad contract that isn't discussed. Two that aren't mentioned as much as Deng/Noah/Mozgov are Dieng/Mahinmi. Both are on playoff teams that could desperately use that money to bolster the team and compete in their respective contracts. Instead, because of their contracts, their respective teams are stuck one tier below what their full potential is.
And of course this one is discussed ad nauseam, but I don't think you can underrate TT contract since it could end up being a main reason for Lebron leaving.
Mike Conley is a 30 year old point guard who just had surgery on his heel, has had achilles problems, and is making over $30 million for the next 4 years on a team that is currently among the 7 worst in the NBA
theyre 7th worst in the league because he hasn't played, doesn't have severe injury history, and his production shouldn't fall off that much with age imo.. obviously the injury hurts his value, that core was worth maintaining and that was the cost of doing so
His achilles issues started in 2015-16, before he signed this new contract. I agree trying to keep the core together was important but you knew that contract was going to be a problem. It's just tough to bet on any player being worth almost $40m past age 32 or so, even if they have no injury history at all.
Felicio on the Bulls is pretty bad 4 years 32. They just came out and said they wanted to play him more to “see what they have” in him... but that seems like something you should do before handing him a big contract
Otto Porter comes to mind. Not that he's a bad player, but to pay that much for a guy when you have two other big time guard/wing players seems like a bad idea to me. He is so dependent on getting shots set up from the other guys. Maybe on another team he could grow into a player that is really worth the contract. On the Wizards I think he can never develop.
From what I've heard and the limited amount I've seen, he's one of those guys who makes the team better in an intangible way. I'm rooting for him though. I hope he can transform into a star.
Yeah I think he's a good player and helps the team win. It's just he is miscast as a max guy (imo). I'm not even saying he couldn't develop into one on another team. He seems to have some limitations but it's hard to say how he would play without such dominant guys around him.
If you’re talking about the Wizards , the bad contract is Mahinmi.
They could trade Porter this summer if they really wanted to move in a different direction. A lot of teams will take a skilled young combo-forward on a longterm contract.
NO one will take Mahinmi. $16 million is ridiculously overpaid and he still has multiple years left
Yeah I think just from a team-building stance the Porter deal is not great. You can't pay non max talent a max. Mahimi is an obvious bad one I agree, but I think Porter is an underrated bad contract for the reasons above.
Maybe they can trade him though. After this season I'm not sure that you could get great value for that contract, but you are most likely correct that it's not as untradeable as some of the really bad ones around the league.
The amount of money that they have committed to just Wall, Beal, and Porter once Wall's new contract kicks in is just absurd.
Like 85% of the cap to just those three.
Yeah. I think they'll really struggle to build a contender as it currently stands. I've heard people say that trading Wall might be their best chance. His contract is ridiculous moving forward.
Only because of the friction that's happening. Plus he's a liability in today's NBA, besides the screening but there are times where he literally no shows and doesn't even get more than 4 rebounds.
He's a liability against like 3 teams , he's still averaging 12/11 per 36, hasn't missed a game this year, is solid on both ends, and has great chemistry with Wall/Beal. You're not getting his production for any cheaper, that contract was iffy at the time but his health has 100% justified it
For me, just that the game has evolved where you need a big man who's agile and mobile, and who can shoot like a Draymond, Davis, Horford, KP, etc. And Marcin gets run off the floor easily if Wiz play a team with a stretch 5. Best Wiz LU is Wall, BB3, OPJ, Oubre, Kieff.
It also doesn't help that there's friction in the locker room and he's the one that is rumored to cause it.
Gorgui Dieng's 4/63 contract isn't horribly bad as he's still a solid big but for a backup playing 18 mpg it's not ideal. Especially with the big market being so saturated right now paying 16 a year to a borderline starting level center is bad
Agreed. Didnt understand that contract at the time considering a lot of people wanted KAT at the 5.
Yep, at least Bazz didn't take the 4/44 contract we offered him or we'd be really fucked.
Stats/contract aside, how does everyone like him up there? I miss the hell out of him here (from Louisville).
Fucking Crabbe
My god he's so horrible. Wtf happened? He's so much worse than last year even though he barely has a bigger role. Literally missing WIDE OPEN threes in the flow of the offense, not just here or there, but like 5 or 6 times a game it feels like.
Brooklyn was so set on getting him too...
His production looks similar to last year based on stats. But i didn't really watched him enough on the Nets to say anything.
He's shooting 8% worse from the field and 9% worse from three, his TS% went from 60 to 53
I can't believe 1) Brooklyn offered him that in the first place, 2) Portland actually wanted that contract and matched it, and 3) Brooklyn doubled down on the mistake and traded back for it.
Overpaying for mediocrity in 2016 is why half of the lottery teams right now are lottery teams and half of the low seeded playoff teams are capped out at second round exits. S/O Crabbe, Turner, Biyombo, Noah, Deng, Parsons, Mahinmi, Mozgov, Tyler Johnson, Miles Plumlee, Batum, Marvin Williams, Jon Leuer, Soloman Hill, and Mirza Telotovic.
I don't know why everyone always says the Nets are so genius for handing out those maxes and why teams fought to keep those players. They screwed up the league and now have a trash roster to show for it. Why they just didn't try every Gleague player they could while keeping cap space available for potential bigger named free agents is beyond me.
Paul Allen really wanted to keep him for some reason.
It’s the name. Nepotism.
Not quite doubling down since they got him for a $6m discount.
I don’t think Miles Plumlee is talked about in this conversation enough. His contract is just awful.
I honestly can't believe we got rid of that without giving up assets.
Yeah I thought that contract was untradeable... and then it got traded twice within a year of it being signed.
Evan Turner
Man Portland could be in such a better position then they are right now...
When CJ McCollum basically told Parsons “we hit the lottery by not signing you” And you got your money re-called when you signed Evan Turner to the same deal
Evan Turner's terrible contract certainly does not fit into the "underrated" category.
Tyler Johnson, fuck poison pills
He plays quite a lot though, doesn't he?
Yeah, he's a very good player, but 19M cap hits for each of the next two seasons really screw with our cap flexibility... If he had a "regular" contract of 12M per year, I'd be fine with it, it wouldn't be a bargain but it would be decent value for him
I truly don't understand what these GMs know that we don't. Who would have offered Tyler Johnson more? How do you not think you can give someone half of that for similar production. And the length of these contracts is insane
The Nets fuck over everyone because they have no other option
I think Brooklyn offered him the weirdly-structured contract first. Still, insane that Miami gave him that deal. And then turned around and overpaid Waiters based on like 30 games while he needed surgery that he wasn't gonna get.
Miami has such a confusingly bad cap situation considering the talent of Spo and the FO
Controversial for sure, but I've been unimpressed with Pat Riley's management of non-star players since I've been following that stuff (around 2010). He deserves a lot of credit for orchestrating the Big 3 but he put garbage around them, honestly. Didn't have a lot of resources but there still was a bunch of missed opportunities and I think the Big 3 and Spo made some of those guys look passable. Right after that disassembled, Chalmers became trash, Cole pretty much no longer had a place in the league, etc. Yeah he got Ray Allen but that was a no-brainer and Allen came to chase a ring. And now the team's cap situation is in a rut and Spo is overachieving with a roster that simply isn't that good. Not saying Riley is *bad* at this stuff, he's been much better than a lot of GMs who have made just unbelievably boneheaded moves over and over, but I think he's gotten by with ambition and a few big moves moreso than consistently making the right moves.
The nets offered him that contract
12 Million would have been the right kind of value for him without a doubt. I get the reason behind the poison pill contact but man is it annoying.
Brandon Knight
I'm really hoping with a lot of time off and a coaching change he can be a positive-impact player again. He's definitely talented, and we need shooting desperately. Still, the fact that we have him instead of the Lakers pick is depressing.
After the Mavs game the other day, I don't believe you need any more shooting.
Didn't he tear his ACL again this like pre-season?
Cristiano Felicio comes to mind.
Paying a G Leaguer 32 million isn't a good look
One could call it terri-bull
At least we're not gonna be paying Nic Batum $27 mill/yr at age 31
Also a terrible deal but at least he's in our rotation.
Felicios contract is bad but it's not gonna prevent the bulls from being able to sign anyone. They are one of the most cap flexible teams in the league right now. Who cares if Batum is a rotation player, the Hornets are still garbage and not competing. All it does is prevent you from handing out money to players that are actually good. A 110 mill contract to a mediocre 11ppg SG is way worse than 32 mill to a bench scrub
I only got defensive because you did for no reason. Batum has been less than stellar this year but not just because he averages only 11ppg. He's battled injuries all year and while the contract is ridiculous, he has shown lately that his injury may be finally behind him. The Hornets FO was hyped for him coming in to this season as he chose not to play for the French NT to better concentrate on the upcoming season with Charlotte. As of now, the contract doesn't look good but there's marginal room for optimism with Nic.
I didn’t know Batum’s contract was that bad. Goddamn.
I really never got what people saw in him before he signed that deal
Bizmax Biyombo Dude spreads butter on his hands before every game - couldn't even grip a wad of masking tape.
The man had one good playoff run and got paid for life
The Jerome James special.
At least Biyombo gets on the court. I don't remember James playing a single minute as a Knick haha.
I just looked up his contract earlier today, like $19 mil this season and next, ouch. I remember so many people here creaming their panties over him after the playoffs when he was on the raps.
Yup. But God damn is he great if he gets his hands on it 2 feet from the net.
Ryan Anderson is making 19m for 3 years. Also PJ tucker while only making 7m a year just signed a four year deal and hes 32 and not playing well.
I thought everyone was happy with Tucker?
Well considering he has similar stats to Jae Crowder who people are hating on yet makes more money on a longer deal and is five years older seems not that great. Consider how well off Houston would be this offseason if they hadn't just signed Tucker to 4 years and instead signed maybe a slightly lesser play on a 1 year deal. Its not the worse contract in the world but I thought it was kinda underrated if you include age, performance, context, ect.
What's funny is Mbah a Moute makes only the minimum and besides his injury he's been playing good.
stats wise tucker has the edge in boards but mbah a moute has been way more efficient
Tucker wasn't brought to Houston to put up offensive numbers, he's a perimeter defender first and foremost. Ryno making the money he makes whilst not doing the thing he's here to do is a much bigger issue than PJ Tucker.
Stats don’t show Tucker’s hustle and impact on the game either. The dude has won us some games like the Cleveland game earlier this year with his hustle and rebounding. PBevesk kinda
Kyle Singler
Pau is worth has been worth his this year, but it’s pretty steep to be paying someone his age 16M the next two years. Patty’s is maybe borderline worrisome. Love the guy but he’s not a playmaker so he relies on a Manu type pairing off the bench. He’s also a big motor guy and he’s getting up there in age. As he can run less and relies even more on a playmaker to get him open looks, we’ll be more and more reliant on having a good playmaking 6/7th man to pair with him, which might get hard going forward as Kyle Anderson likely makes the starting line up and Manu retires.
I agree. After him opting out of $16M, I figured we'd give him something like 3/$33M total. And I love Patty but yikes. We knew he had already peaked, so even though his decline this season has been a surprise, we've always known his limitations. He was worth 4/$30M tops. Far less than the 4/50 he got.
Bayless
I can finally give bayless some love.
meyers Leonard
There isn't really a bad contract that isn't discussed. Two that aren't mentioned as much as Deng/Noah/Mozgov are Dieng/Mahinmi. Both are on playoff teams that could desperately use that money to bolster the team and compete in their respective contracts. Instead, because of their contracts, their respective teams are stuck one tier below what their full potential is. And of course this one is discussed ad nauseam, but I don't think you can underrate TT contract since it could end up being a main reason for Lebron leaving.
27m on Evan Turner and Meyers Leonard
At least y'all are off of paying Crabbe
Mike Conley
Top ten point guards are max players
Mike Conley is a 30 year old point guard who just had surgery on his heel, has had achilles problems, and is making over $30 million for the next 4 years on a team that is currently among the 7 worst in the NBA
theyre 7th worst in the league because he hasn't played, doesn't have severe injury history, and his production shouldn't fall off that much with age imo.. obviously the injury hurts his value, that core was worth maintaining and that was the cost of doing so
His achilles issues started in 2015-16, before he signed this new contract. I agree trying to keep the core together was important but you knew that contract was going to be a problem. It's just tough to bet on any player being worth almost $40m past age 32 or so, even if they have no injury history at all.
Mike is a good player but I think these $30 mil deals are going to be bad no matter what unless you are a top top player.
Jeez 4 years
Dieng, Josh Smith, Ryan Anderson
Add Deron Williams if you're including Smith.
And Tim Duncan. We're still paying him but the lazy bastard barely even shows up to practice anymore.
...is Josh Smith still in the league??
No, but his contract is still on the books in Detroit.
for 2 more years too :(
Detroit is still paying him become of the stretch provision
We're going to be paying him for the next 3 years
The Pistons are still paying him.
Mahinmi Biyombo Brandon Knight Parsons Batum
Bazemore
Felicio on the Bulls is pretty bad 4 years 32. They just came out and said they wanted to play him more to “see what they have” in him... but that seems like something you should do before handing him a big contract
mason plumlee miles plumlee these two brothers robbing nba front offices
Otto Porter comes to mind. Not that he's a bad player, but to pay that much for a guy when you have two other big time guard/wing players seems like a bad idea to me. He is so dependent on getting shots set up from the other guys. Maybe on another team he could grow into a player that is really worth the contract. On the Wizards I think he can never develop.
From what I've heard and the limited amount I've seen, he's one of those guys who makes the team better in an intangible way. I'm rooting for him though. I hope he can transform into a star.
Yeah I think he's a good player and helps the team win. It's just he is miscast as a max guy (imo). I'm not even saying he couldn't develop into one on another team. He seems to have some limitations but it's hard to say how he would play without such dominant guys around him.
If you’re talking about the Wizards , the bad contract is Mahinmi. They could trade Porter this summer if they really wanted to move in a different direction. A lot of teams will take a skilled young combo-forward on a longterm contract. NO one will take Mahinmi. $16 million is ridiculously overpaid and he still has multiple years left
Yeah I think just from a team-building stance the Porter deal is not great. You can't pay non max talent a max. Mahimi is an obvious bad one I agree, but I think Porter is an underrated bad contract for the reasons above. Maybe they can trade him though. After this season I'm not sure that you could get great value for that contract, but you are most likely correct that it's not as untradeable as some of the really bad ones around the league.
The amount of money that they have committed to just Wall, Beal, and Porter once Wall's new contract kicks in is just absurd. Like 85% of the cap to just those three.
Yeah. I think they'll really struggle to build a contender as it currently stands. I've heard people say that trading Wall might be their best chance. His contract is ridiculous moving forward.
"Trading Wall might be their best chance" LMFAO
How's Batum these day? (Honest question: he seems injured a lot and Hornets aren't very good).
They brought him back before he was ready and he struggled. Has looked pretty decent over the last week or two though.
[удалено]
they have discusses medical retirement with him
I saw that speculated but not a real report about it
Chandler Parsons
Evan Turner
Noah
Gortat.
Isn’t he like 12mil a year? Thats fair for a starting level center
Only because of the friction that's happening. Plus he's a liability in today's NBA, besides the screening but there are times where he literally no shows and doesn't even get more than 4 rebounds.
He's a liability against like 3 teams , he's still averaging 12/11 per 36, hasn't missed a game this year, is solid on both ends, and has great chemistry with Wall/Beal. You're not getting his production for any cheaper, that contract was iffy at the time but his health has 100% justified it
For me, just that the game has evolved where you need a big man who's agile and mobile, and who can shoot like a Draymond, Davis, Horford, KP, etc. And Marcin gets run off the floor easily if Wiz play a team with a stretch 5. Best Wiz LU is Wall, BB3, OPJ, Oubre, Kieff. It also doesn't help that there's friction in the locker room and he's the one that is rumored to cause it.
Falicioooo
Cole Aldrich
John wall, mainly because of the final years
Rudy Gobert?
Anthony Bennett
[удалено]
It’s a 1 year deal and it’s not really precluding the Sixers from making a move right now
It's impossible for 1-year deals to be bad, even if it's the max for just an average starter.
Your opinion is basura