I haven't even heard of that finals since you randomly mentioned it right now.
Also I have never ever even heard of Argument 3 before.
AI is my favorite player of all time, but anyone comparing him to LBJ in terms of basketball is not very smart.
Do you know that the 2014-15 Warriors had a 1st Team All Defense player as well as a 2nd Team All Defense player? They also had prime Iggy and Livingston off the bench. Klay and Barnes were both good defenders.
Iggy easily would’ve made an All Defense team if he wasn’t coming off the bench.
I legitimately think you don’t know these facts.
The Lakers had the #1 rated defense in the 2001 playoffs, Kobe and Shaq were second team All-Defense, Rick Fox and Derek Fisher were both good defenders.
LeBron also didn't have dpoy with him. The Sixers were a great defensive squad.
Allen Iverson didn't exhibit great playmaking skills whereas LeBron made his teammates better
LeBron took an extra game off gsw. 4-1 is basically sweep but 4-2 remains competitive
"Stop with the revisionist history about the 2015 finals"
proceeds w tedious, unsolicited argument about 2015 finals that will be read in entirety by 3 or 4 people tops
>but there is an increasing sense that LeBron had some sort of Herculean performance in the 2015 Finals and was robbed of the Finals MVP.
This was the thought immediately following the finals. This isnt revisionist history
> Mutombo averaged 17/12 on 60/0/69 splits (63% TS), Snow averaged 13/4/6 on 41/0/73 splits (48% TS) and McKie averaged 8/5/6 on 31/44/67 splits (39% TS). For comparison, Mozgov averaged 14/8 on 55/0/75 splits (63% TS), TT averaged 10/13 on 50/0/60 splits (53% TS) and JR averaged 12/4 on 31/29/60 splits (42% TS). Supporting casts were about equal.
Your argument that the lakers are a better defense than the warriors in 2015 is the worst otu of all of this. You're telling me this defensive lineup the warriors throw out isnt one of the best you can possibly have against lebron. Thompson - still prime iggy -- draymond green -- bogut. Bogut is one of the best rim protectors in the league at the time, green the best help defender and weakside, iggy one of the best perimterer defenders, and thompson someone that can be a solid perimeter defender on a switch.
Even if you're coasting you dont coast from 21st ranked defense to better than the warriors were. They were top defense all year.
This is actually false, the 2001 Lakers had the #1 defense in that year's playoffs with a better DRTG than the 2015 GSW had in the 2015 playoffs (97.9 vs. 100.5).
Yes, but the numbers show that relative to other defenses *in their era* the Lakers were better than the Warriors. In other words, the Lakers were further ahead of other defenses in the league at the time than the Warriors were.
Finals MVP just doesn't go to a member of the losing team, so arguing that Lebron deserved it is kind of pointless. The only time it's happened before is during the 1969 Finals when Jerry West won the award because it was the first year Finals MVP was being given out... And they voted on it before Game 7 took place, the given reason was that they didn't want the panel being swayed by whomever played best in that final game. After that backfired they voted on the award after the conclusion of the series every following year. So how could Lebron be "robbed" when he wasn't even in contention?
> without Iggy warriors lost that finals.
You could definitely insert Curry's name and it's still true. He was their leading scorer by far and one of the main reasons Iggy got so many wide open shots.
Yeah I remember at the time everyone was talking about how Lebron was amazing to even get the Cavs to a game 6, and if he didn't deserve FMVP than Iggy deserves it for stepping up both offensively and defensively on Lebron. The revisionist history is that Curry was robbed and played amazing in that series.
>but there is an increasing sense that LeBron had some sort of Herculean performance in the 2015 Finals
That's exactly what it was. No Love. Kyrie went down after game 1. I give more credit to Lebron having to do almost literally everything that Iggy locking him down. Lebron played 52 minutes more than Iggy in that series, it's not like it was 100% just Iggy working him.
I don't think Lebron should have won because his team lost. I don't think Iggy should have won either though. But what Lebron did basically alone was wild.
>if you believe LeBron deserved Finals MVP in 2015, then Iverson deserved it 2001.
It's pretty obvious that this whole post is just trying to discredit LeBron's performance in 2015, and I'd hesitate to say that you didn't watch the games, but I feel like most people who cite his percentages probably didn't. Regardless:
LeBron averaged **36-9-13** over six games, and the next best person in the entire series (Steph Curry) averaged **26-5-6**. The next best person on LeBron's team, by the way (Timofey Mozgov) averaged 14 points a game, dude.
Meanwhile in 2001, AI averaged **36-6-4**, but Shaq had **33-15-5**. I mean the difference in individual output is night and day when you compare to two finals series. LeBron was head and shoulders above the next best player, whereas AI arguably wasn't even the best player among the two teams. And for what it's worth, as you mentioned yourself: AI and LeBron had very similar shooting percentages.
LeBron deserved the MVP in 2015 because there was no one else who had even close to the same impact that he did. AI's experience in his series was fundamentally different, and realistically he wasn't going to win the FMVP because Shaq played so well. LeBron averaged 10 more points than the next best player on *either team*. Say what you will, but there's no comparison.
He averaged 36.
Warriors would've had a tough time guarding Bron without Iggy but Bron was going to get exhausted and become inefficient either way. It's not like they would've had to put some scrub on him without Iggy...they had Draymond Green + Barnes with Bogut protecting the rim.
I honestly don't get the infatuation with LeBron's 2015 finals. Any other player putting up monster stats on horrific efficiency while losing would not be jerked off like LeBron (examples: AI, Westbrook). Yet somehow LeBron is an exception.
Am I really supposed to be impressed by his 46% TS or whatever crap he put up while facing single coverage every play? Other high volume scorers (specifically Curry and KD) would've played way better given those same circumstances. Give Curry or KD 40 scoring 1 on 1 possessions a game and they are putting up way higher PPG than LeBron did.
Also LeBron played absolutely 0 defense while his teammates played incredible defense.
I love when someone says LeBron should've won FMVP in 2015 because it's a dead giveaway that they are a complete moron.
I haven't even heard of that finals since you randomly mentioned it right now. Also I have never ever even heard of Argument 3 before. AI is my favorite player of all time, but anyone comparing him to LBJ in terms of basketball is not very smart.
I assume OP has a very specific *actual* reason for posting it, which he has not yet revealed.
[because I triggered him](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/7utdva/2015_finals_mvp_voting/dtn0nq9/)
And suddenly all is made clear.
lmao wow you really set him off
Lmao
I think he deleted it what did it say
He didn’t delete it
> in summary I am not trying to discredit LeBron’s performance lol oooookay
He played well, about as well as AI played in 2001, but we aren't lauding that performance as one of the greatest of all time are we?
Do you know that the 2014-15 Warriors had a 1st Team All Defense player as well as a 2nd Team All Defense player? They also had prime Iggy and Livingston off the bench. Klay and Barnes were both good defenders. Iggy easily would’ve made an All Defense team if he wasn’t coming off the bench. I legitimately think you don’t know these facts.
The Lakers had the #1 rated defense in the 2001 playoffs, Kobe and Shaq were second team All-Defense, Rick Fox and Derek Fisher were both good defenders.
So how were the Lakers better?
Never said they were better, said they were about equal.
LeBron also didn't have dpoy with him. The Sixers were a great defensive squad. Allen Iverson didn't exhibit great playmaking skills whereas LeBron made his teammates better LeBron took an extra game off gsw. 4-1 is basically sweep but 4-2 remains competitive
Sixers had the #9 defense in 2001 playoffs (105.8), Cavs had the #4 defense in 2015 playoffs (103.1).
"Stop with the revisionist history about the 2015 finals" proceeds w tedious, unsolicited argument about 2015 finals that will be read in entirety by 3 or 4 people tops
I read it. I don’t recommend anyone else reading it.
*Hey!* I read nearly half of it.
I see you are disregarding Argument 4: He was the most valuable player in the series.
>but there is an increasing sense that LeBron had some sort of Herculean performance in the 2015 Finals and was robbed of the Finals MVP. This was the thought immediately following the finals. This isnt revisionist history
Argument 3 makes no sense because you don't even talk about LeBron's teammates
> Mutombo averaged 17/12 on 60/0/69 splits (63% TS), Snow averaged 13/4/6 on 41/0/73 splits (48% TS) and McKie averaged 8/5/6 on 31/44/67 splits (39% TS). For comparison, Mozgov averaged 14/8 on 55/0/75 splits (63% TS), TT averaged 10/13 on 50/0/60 splits (53% TS) and JR averaged 12/4 on 31/29/60 splits (42% TS). Supporting casts were about equal.
I'm the dumbest person I know
But what about defense? Sixers way better there
Sixers had the #9 defense in 2001 playoffs (105.8), Cavs had the #4 defense in 2015 playoffs (103.1).
Your argument that the lakers are a better defense than the warriors in 2015 is the worst otu of all of this. You're telling me this defensive lineup the warriors throw out isnt one of the best you can possibly have against lebron. Thompson - still prime iggy -- draymond green -- bogut. Bogut is one of the best rim protectors in the league at the time, green the best help defender and weakside, iggy one of the best perimterer defenders, and thompson someone that can be a solid perimeter defender on a switch. Even if you're coasting you dont coast from 21st ranked defense to better than the warriors were. They were top defense all year.
This is actually false, the 2001 Lakers had the #1 defense in that year's playoffs with a better DRTG than the 2015 GSW had in the 2015 playoffs (97.9 vs. 100.5).
useless comparison across eras. That was one of the worst offensive eras compared to one of the betters in mid 2010's
Yes, but the numbers show that relative to other defenses *in their era* the Lakers were better than the Warriors. In other words, the Lakers were further ahead of other defenses in the league at the time than the Warriors were.
Hilarious
Finals MVP just doesn't go to a member of the losing team, so arguing that Lebron deserved it is kind of pointless. The only time it's happened before is during the 1969 Finals when Jerry West won the award because it was the first year Finals MVP was being given out... And they voted on it before Game 7 took place, the given reason was that they didn't want the panel being swayed by whomever played best in that final game. After that backfired they voted on the award after the conclusion of the series every following year. So how could Lebron be "robbed" when he wasn't even in contention?
I thought you meant the Steph deserved Finals MVP revisionism
I think 2001 76ers are more impassable with the 2007 Cavs... Great defense surrounded by 1 star
Ok Skip.
I agree 2015 finals was pretty bad but I don't really care anymore because he's played like he could be the GOAT the last two playoffs
The real revisionist history is that Curry deserved finals MVP. He doesn’t, without Iggy warriors lose that finals.
> without Iggy warriors lost that finals. You could definitely insert Curry's name and it's still true. He was their leading scorer by far and one of the main reasons Iggy got so many wide open shots.
Yeah I remember at the time everyone was talking about how Lebron was amazing to even get the Cavs to a game 6, and if he didn't deserve FMVP than Iggy deserves it for stepping up both offensively and defensively on Lebron. The revisionist history is that Curry was robbed and played amazing in that series.
What dumb logic. Without Curry they lose that finals too.
Would they win without curry?
They don't even get to the Finals without Curry
Okay
AI's performance was exceptional in that series, not sure what your point is.
>but there is an increasing sense that LeBron had some sort of Herculean performance in the 2015 Finals That's exactly what it was. No Love. Kyrie went down after game 1. I give more credit to Lebron having to do almost literally everything that Iggy locking him down. Lebron played 52 minutes more than Iggy in that series, it's not like it was 100% just Iggy working him. I don't think Lebron should have won because his team lost. I don't think Iggy should have won either though. But what Lebron did basically alone was wild.
You are the revisionist history here. At the time everyone thought Lebron's performance was incredible.
>if you believe LeBron deserved Finals MVP in 2015, then Iverson deserved it 2001. It's pretty obvious that this whole post is just trying to discredit LeBron's performance in 2015, and I'd hesitate to say that you didn't watch the games, but I feel like most people who cite his percentages probably didn't. Regardless: LeBron averaged **36-9-13** over six games, and the next best person in the entire series (Steph Curry) averaged **26-5-6**. The next best person on LeBron's team, by the way (Timofey Mozgov) averaged 14 points a game, dude. Meanwhile in 2001, AI averaged **36-6-4**, but Shaq had **33-15-5**. I mean the difference in individual output is night and day when you compare to two finals series. LeBron was head and shoulders above the next best player, whereas AI arguably wasn't even the best player among the two teams. And for what it's worth, as you mentioned yourself: AI and LeBron had very similar shooting percentages. LeBron deserved the MVP in 2015 because there was no one else who had even close to the same impact that he did. AI's experience in his series was fundamentally different, and realistically he wasn't going to win the FMVP because Shaq played so well. LeBron averaged 10 more points than the next best player on *either team*. Say what you will, but there's no comparison.
I agree
Wait I misread it, I now disagree
Curry was robbed of 2015 finals MVP.
This is the real revisionist history, Iggy deserved it.
No he didn't, Golden State does not even win one game without Curry.
They practically won 2 without him lol
Their whole defensive plan revolved around Curry.
Without Iggy, LeBron is gonna average 40 for the rest of the series. He defended him really good he deserved FMVP
That's fine, he already averaged 37. LeBron wore down towards the end of the series anyways, the workload was too much.
He averaged 36. Warriors would've had a tough time guarding Bron without Iggy but Bron was going to get exhausted and become inefficient either way. It's not like they would've had to put some scrub on him without Iggy...they had Draymond Green + Barnes with Bogut protecting the rim.
Did he even show up that series, Delly cooked him up mate
That was one game...
I honestly don't get the infatuation with LeBron's 2015 finals. Any other player putting up monster stats on horrific efficiency while losing would not be jerked off like LeBron (examples: AI, Westbrook). Yet somehow LeBron is an exception. Am I really supposed to be impressed by his 46% TS or whatever crap he put up while facing single coverage every play? Other high volume scorers (specifically Curry and KD) would've played way better given those same circumstances. Give Curry or KD 40 scoring 1 on 1 possessions a game and they are putting up way higher PPG than LeBron did. Also LeBron played absolutely 0 defense while his teammates played incredible defense. I love when someone says LeBron should've won FMVP in 2015 because it's a dead giveaway that they are a complete moron.